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Bahadur Ali

Was Ibn 'Arabi a Shi'a in disguise?

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Salam alaikum

Jazak Allah Ethernal...I agree with you, though I am not able to be this good in English-))

Its a very beneficial discussion; I have just purchased some studies on Ibn Arabi, especially the Fotoo7aat al-Makkiya so I am eager to read it and then perhaps re-read the whole thread:)

But then again, is it important if he were a shia or not..? I mean of course, but for his works, we can still take the good and leave the bad, no?

"as the famous hadith qudsi goes: "I am as my servant thinks I am"."

Mashallah, its a very good one. I also d beleive, that at the end, love is the one that will stay. And yes, I might be wrong, but I say, I beleive Allah is basically love. Like He is Rahman, that derives from the Arabic root RHM, which is also Rahm: womb. A mother's womb is a shelter and love in itself, just as Allah, if one seeks out for Him.

Thats the greatest consolation.

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Al-salamu alaikum wa rahmatullah,

Continuing from the last post which no one was able to provide a clear and concise answer for, Insha'Allah the textual proof will be provided for the listed names of scholars in the following post:

Post #83

Let's begin with the list:

1) Aḥmad bin Fahd al-Ḥellī: There is no direct source found yet which asserts this claim other than what Ayatollah Sayyed Muḥammad Saleḥ al-Khalkhalī had mentioned in his book Shar al-Manāqib (an exegesis of Ibn Arabi's book al-Manaqeb) :

"... and those who assert on proving [ibn Arabi]'s belonging to Shi'ism such as Ibn Fahd al-Helli, Sheikh Baha'i, al-Muhaqiq al-Faydh ... have many evidences and proofs/arguments for supporting their claim."

2) Sayyed Muḥammad Nur Bakhsh al-Thahabī (who was a great Shi'i 'arif. He studied under Ibn Fahd al-Helli in both esoteric and exoteric sciences and formed an 'irfani chain in the name of "Nur Bakhshiya" ..) Al-Tasturi mentions in the book "Majales al-Mu'minin" when stating the biography of Ibn Arabi: "Sayyed Muhammad Nur Bakhsh (May Allah illuminate his shrine) who had comprehensive knowledge in both esoteric and exoteric sciences justified the creed of the Sheikh [ibn Arabi] to the utmost extent where he said in some of his famous treatise's, "Shaykh Muhyiddeen Ibn Arabi was excused for concealing the love of the Adam of the Saints Ali al-Mourtada (upon whom be peace) and his mentioning of Yazid, Mu'awiya and Bani Umayya in the manner that the people of Shaam used to believe using the same phrases and titles that they mention in their books in order to abstain from their evilness. Acting in such a manner in order to prevent oneself from harm is permissible."

3) ʿAllamah Jalāl ad-Dīn ad-Dwānī (A very prominent philosopher who was guided to Shi'ism and wrote a treatise proving the succession of Imam Ali (upon whom be peace) titled "Nur al-Hidayah (the light of guidance)." He says the following in his book Nur al-Hidayah: The author of Futuhat al-Makiyya (i.e. Ibn Arabi) expressed the twelve Imams as being twelve poles [of existence] .. [ibn Arabi] even expresses that the responsibility of revealing the divine law on behalf of the Prophet was not that of Abu Bakr's. He quotes Ibn Arabi (ra) saying (when speaking of the representatives of the Prophets (as): "... just as Ali bin Abi Taleb (as) was the successor/representative of Muhammad ..."

4) al-Qādhī Nur Allah al-Tasturī (ra): One of the most prominent Shi'a scholars and the author of the famous book "ʾḥqāq al-Ḥaq" whom Ayatollah Marʿashī al-Najafī wrote a continuation of (consisting of around 20 volumes in total). Al-Tasturī writes the following in the book majālis al-muʾminīn:

" The most unique of the monotheists Muḥyiddīn Ibn ʿarabi al-Ṭāʾī al-Ḥātimī al-Andalusī ... his kherqa goes back to al-Khedr (pbuh) via one intermediary. Al-Kedhr, according to what Mawlana Qutb ad-Dīn al-Ansārī says, is a successor of Imam Ali bin al-Husayn (as). Shaykh Futuḥ al-Rāzī narrates when interpreting the following verse: "(Their Lord) said: For this the land will surely be forbidden them for forty years that they will wander in the earth, " [5:26] that al-Khedr said, according to some Gnostics (ʿurafāʾ) who reached lofty stations, the following, "I am from the followers of Ali, and of those who were assigned to serve his followers (shiʿa). He also heard from some dervishes of the nur bakhshiya chain that every person who declared meeting with al-Khedr from the Sufi Sheikhs or relates his kherqa to him is in reality expressing that he follows the Shi'a school of thought and also his creed of belief in Imamate. Shaykh [ibn Arabi] clearly stated in [the book of] Futuḥāt his belief in the Imamate and succession of the twelve Imams to the Prophet (pbut). He accurately referred to the hadith al-manzila under the title "a Haruni bezel" in his book "The bezels of wisdom" where he also avoided mentioning his belief in the imamate of the caliphs. He also subtly expressed the obligation to believe in the incidents that occurred on the incident of Ghadir including the appointing of Imam Ali (as) until he reaches the following, "and he (the Prophet) stood at the final pilgrimage in front of everyone from his followers who attended .."

---------

Al-Tasturi mentions many other proofs (around 11 pages) which will be quoted in the next post insha'Allah.

To be contiuned ...

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Al-salamu alaikum wa rahmatullah,

Continuing from the last post which no one was able to provide a clear and concise answer for, Insha'Allah the textual proof will be provided for the listed names of scholars in the following post:

Post #83

Let's begin with the list:

1) Aḥmad bin Fahd al-Ḥellī: There is no direct source found yet which asserts this claim other than what Ayatollah Sayyed Muḥammad Saleḥ al-Khalkhalī had mentioned in his book Shar al-Manāqib (an exegesis of Ibn Arabi's book al-Manaqeb) :

"... and those who assert on proving [ibn Arabi]'s belonging to Shi'ism such as Ibn Fahd al-Helli, Sheikh Baha'i, al-Muhaqiq al-Faydh ... have many evidences and proofs/arguments for supporting their claim."

2) Sayyed Muḥammad Nur Bakhsh al-Thahabī (who was a great Shi'i 'arif. He studied under Ibn Fahd al-Helli in both esoteric and exoteric sciences and formed an 'irfani chain in the name of "Nur Bakhshiya" ..) Al-Tasturi mentions in the book "Majales al-Mu'minin" when stating the biography of Ibn Arabi: "Sayyed Muhammad Nur Bakhsh (May Allah illuminate his shrine) who had comprehensive knowledge in both esoteric and exoteric sciences justified the creed of the Sheikh [ibn Arabi] to the utmost extent where he said in some of his famous treatise's, "Shaykh Muhyiddeen Ibn Arabi was excused for concealing the love of the Adam of the Saints Ali al-Mourtada (upon whom be peace) and his mentioning of Yazid, Mu'awiya and Bani Umayya in the manner that the people of Shaam used to believe using the same phrases and titles that they mention in their books in order to abstain from their evilness. Acting in such a manner in order to prevent oneself from harm is permissible."

3) ʿAllamah Jalāl ad-Dīn ad-Dwānī (A very prominent philosopher who was guided to Shi'ism and wrote a treatise proving the succession of Imam Ali (upon whom be peace) titled "Nur al-Hidayah (the light of guidance)." He says the following in his book Nur al-Hidayah: The author of Futuhat al-Makiyya (i.e. Ibn Arabi) expressed the twelve Imams as being twelve poles [of existence] .. [ibn Arabi] even expresses that the responsibility of revealing the divine law on behalf of the Prophet was not that of Abu Bakr's. He quotes Ibn Arabi (ra) saying (when speaking of the representatives of the Prophets (as): "... just as Ali bin Abi Taleb (as) was the successor/representative of Muhammad ..."

4) al-Qādhī Nur Allah al-Tasturī (ra): One of the most prominent Shi'a scholars and the author of the famous book "ʾḥqāq al-Ḥaq" whom Ayatollah Marʿashī al-Najafī wrote a continuation of (consisting of around 20 volumes in total). Al-Tasturī writes the following in the book majālis al-muʾminīn:

" The most unique of the monotheists Muḥyiddīn Ibn ʿarabi al-Ṭāʾī al-Ḥātimī al-Andalusī ... his kherqa goes back to al-Khedr (pbuh) via one intermediary. Al-Kedhr, according to what Mawlana Qutb ad-Dīn al-Ansārī says, is a successor of Imam Ali bin al-Husayn (as). Shaykh Futuḥ al-Rāzī narrates when interpreting the following verse: "(Their Lord) said: For this the land will surely be forbidden them for forty years that they will wander in the earth, " [5:26] that al-Khedr said, according to some Gnostics (ʿurafāʾ) who reached lofty stations, the following, "I am from the followers of Ali, and of those who were assigned to serve his followers (shiʿa). He also heard from some dervishes of the nur bakhshiya chain that every person who declared meeting with al-Khedr from the Sufi Sheikhs or relates his kherqa to him is in reality expressing that he follows the Shi'a school of thought and also his creed of belief in Imamate. Shaykh [ibn Arabi] clearly stated in [the book of] Futuḥāt his belief in the Imamate and succession of the twelve Imams to the Prophet (pbut). He accurately referred to the hadith al-manzila under the title "a Haruni bezel" in his book "The bezels of wisdom" where he also avoided mentioning his belief in the imamate of the caliphs. He also subtly expressed the obligation to believe in the incidents that occurred on the incident of Ghadir including the appointing of Imam Ali (as) until he reaches the following, "and he (the Prophet) stood at the final pilgrimage in front of everyone from his followers who attended .."

---------

Al-Tasturi mentions many other proofs (around 11 pages) which will be quoted in the next post insha'Allah.

To be contiuned ...

(bismillah)

(salam)

Brother please post the original arabic quotes, so the rest of us can accurately percieve whether or not these quotes are exactly how you have percieved them and of course the references to the original sources.

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Asalamou 'aleykoum,

Soubhanallah !

Fear Allah (swt) !

Do you read ÇáÝÊæÍÇÊ ÇáãßíÉ ?

His opinion :

-on Pharaoh ?

-the nature of sin ?

I have a question: What is his opinion about Pharaoh ?....La Hawla wa la Quwwata Illa Bi-Llâh !

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Brother please post the original arabic quotes, so the rest of us can accurately percieve whether or not these quotes are exactly how you have percieved them and of course the references to the original sources.

Sure brother,

What is in this post is extracted from the post I wrote on an Arabic forum (which is yet to be completed as well).

Here is the link: http://www.wahajr.com/hajrvb/showthread.php?t=402980860

Wasalam

http://www.wahajr.com/hajrvb/showthread.php?t=402980860

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Asalamou 'aleykoum,

Soubhanallah !

Fear Allah (swt) !

Do you read ÇáÝÊæÍÇÊ ÇáãßíÉ ?

His opinion :

-on Pharaoh ?

-the nature of sin ?

I have a question: What is his opinion about Pharaoh ?....La Hawla wa la Quwwata Illa Bi-Llâh !

Al-salamu alaikum wa rahmatullah,

May Allah (swt) increase your rewards on these holy days in which the grandson of the Prophet (pbuh&hh), Imam al-Husayn (as). May Allah (swt) grant us the success to serve the Imam of our time, the awaited Mahdi (ajtf).

Brother, if you have any material which you would like to discuss, then please bring it forth. Otherwise, there is no need for this chaotic reaction and unprofessional reply.

Wasalam.

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Al-salamu alaikum wa rahmatullah,

May Allah (swt) increase your rewards on these holy days in which the grandson of the Prophet (pbuh&hh), Imam al-Husayn (as). May Allah (swt) grant us the success to serve the Imam of our time, the awaited Mahdi (ajtf).

Brother, if you have any material which you would like to discuss, then please bring it forth. Otherwise, there is no need for this chaotic reaction and unprofessional reply.

Wasalam.

Wa 'aleykoum akhi al-aziz.

May Allah (swt) bless you.

My condolences to Ahlu El Beit (as).

My brother on the second point [ Ibn 'Arabi talks to Allah (swT)] :

ÌÚáÊ Ýí ÇáÐí ÌÚáÊå

æÞáÊ áí ÃäÊ ÞÏ ÚãáÊå

æÃäÊ ÊÏÑí ÈÇä ßæäí

ãÇÝíå ÛíÑ ÇáÐí ÌÚáÊå

Ýßá ÝÚá ÊÑÇå ãäí

ÇäÊ Åáåí ÇáÐí ÝÚáÊå

(ÇáÝÊæÍÇÊ ÇáãßíÉ º ãÌáÏ8 º ÕÝÍÉ 83 )

Sorry, if an error is present. I'm tired today.

Wa 'aleykoum asalam akhi.

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Wa 'aleykoum akhi al-aziz.

May Allah (swt) bless you.

My condolences to Ahlu El Beit (as).

My brother on the second point [ Ibn 'Arabi talks to Allah (swT)] :

(ÇáÝÊæÍÇÊ ÇáãßíÉ º ãÌáÏ8 º ÕÝÍÉ 83 )

Sorry, if an error is present. I'm tired today.

Wa 'aleykoum asalam akhi.

Wa alaikum alsalam,

No need for an apology brother, Insha'Allah you gain rest and comfort.

I've read what you provided, and there seems nothing wrong with it. We will discuss it later insha'Allah.

Let us first see what he says about Pharoah.

Do you have the quote regarding this issue?

Wasalam

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Wa alaikum alsalam,

No need for an apology brother, Insha'Allah you gain rest and comfort.

I've read what you provided, and there seems nothing wrong with it. We will discuss it later insha'Allah.

Let us first see what he says about Pharoah.

Do you have the quote regarding this issue?

Wasalam

Asalamou 'aleykoum akhi,

You do not see any problem? That shocks me. But first talk to Pharaoh.

Speaking about Pharaoh, Ibn Arabi sait :

ÝÞÈÖå Çááå ØÇåÑÇð ãØåøÑÇð áã íÔÈúåõ ÏäÓ

(ÇáÝÊæÍÇÊ ÇáãßíÉ º ãÌáÏ2 º ÕÝÍÉ 201 )

There are other passages, but I need time.

I know some supporters of Ibn Arabi ; They think that Pharaoh is in Paradise. La hawla wa la quatta illah billah.

Wa 'aleykoum asalam.

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Asalamou 'aleykoum akhi,

You do not see any problem? That shocks me. But first talk to Pharaoh.

Speaking about Pharaoh, Ibn Arabi sait :

(ÇáÝÊæÍÇÊ ÇáãßíÉ º ãÌáÏ2 º ÕÝÍÉ 201 )

There are other passages, but I need time.

I know some supporters of Ibn Arabi ; They think that Pharaoh is in Paradise. La hawla wa la quatta illah billah.

Wa 'aleykoum asalam.

I am still waiting for the rest of the passages dear brother.

Wasalam

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Asalamou 'aleykoum,

My brother, I have some personal problems. Sorry.

Also, I do not have my personal computer.

I could not continue. Inshallah, my situation improves. Good luck.

You can start the commentary of Ibn Arabi.

+++

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Asalamou 'aleykoum,

My brother, I have some personal problems. Sorry.

Also, I do not have my personal computer.

I could not continue. Inshallah, my situation improves. Good luck.

You can start the commentary of Ibn Arabi.

+++

Salam alaikum,

I ask Allah (swt) to remove all calamities and hardships from your path and ease your way throughout your life, by the rights of Muhammad and Aali Muhammad (as).

The next scholar in line:

Sayyed Haydar al-Amuli (ra)

Allow me then to continue with the list of names of scholars provided, and then we can move on to the subject of Pharaoh.

Wasalam

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Asalamou 'aleykoum akhi,

You do not see any problem? That shocks me. But first talk to Pharaoh.

Speaking about Pharaoh, Ibn Arabi sait :

(ÇáÝÊæÍÇÊ ÇáãßíÉ º ãÌáÏ2 º ÕÝÍÉ 201 )

There are other passages, but I need time.

I know some supporters of Ibn Arabi ; They think that Pharaoh is in Paradise. La hawla wa la quatta illah billah.

Wa 'aleykoum asalam.

Al-salamu alaikum wa rahmatullah,

Continuing from the last post, I will provide a quick refutation of the claim regarding Pharaoh being in heaven, firstly with a quote from alfutuhat of Ibn Arabi (ra) stating that Pharaoh is in hell. Secondly, with a brief explanation of what Ibn Arabi meant by saying:

"ÝÞÈÖå Çááå ØÇåÑÇð ãØåøÑÇð áã íÔÈúåõ ÏäÓ"

Ibn Arabi mentions in the futuhat, volume 1, page 301-302

(This is a link of the book: http://www.ibnalarabi.com/maktaba/futuhat.asp?ID=301)

" .. æåÄáÇÁ ÇáãÌÑãæä ÃÑÈÚ ØæÇÆÝ ßáåÇ Ýí ÇáäÇÑ áÇ íÎÑÌæä ãäåÇ æåã ÇáãÊßÈÑæä Úáì Çááå
ßÝÑÚæä æÃãËÇáå ããä ÇÏøÚì ÇáÑÈæÈíÉ áäÝÓå æäÝÇåÇ Úä Çááå
ÝÞÇá íÇÃíåÇ Çáãáà ãÇ ÚáãÊ áßã ãä Çáå ÛíÑì
æÞÇá ÃäÇ ÑÈßã ÇáÃÚáì
íÑíÏ Ãäå ãÇ Ýí ÇáÓãÇÁ Çáå ÛíÑì æßÐáß äãÑæÏ æÛíÑå æÇáØÇÆÝÉ ÇáËÇäíÉ ÇáãÔÑßæä æåã ÇáÐíä íÌÚáæä ãÚ Çááå ÇáåÇ ÂÎÑ ÝÞÇáæÇ ãÇ äÚÈÏåã ÅáÇ áíÞÑÈæäÇ Åáì Çááå ÒáÝì æÞÇáæÇ ÃÌÚá ÇáÂáåÉ ÇáåÇ æÇÍÏÇ Çäø åÐÇ á ÔíÁ ÚÌÇÈ ... ÅáÎ"

"... all are in hell. They do not exit it and they are those who arrogant to God such as Fer'awn (Pharaoh) and his likes who claimed Lordship for himself and denied it of God .."

As for the interpretation of the text that contradicts this one, the explanation will be provided later as I need to translate a few paragraphs from the commentary of al-Qasani (ra) on al-Fusus of ibn Arabi (ra).

Wasalam

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Our master ibn arabi is beyond sunni shia when one arrives at the light or divine presence of Allah almighty their is only Allah (swt) but you must also know you can't rise without ahlul bayt through the hands of hazrat Ali and the family then to reach at the fountain of Abu bakr sidiq then to the gatherings of Muhammad Muastapha (saw) they are altogether always its a huge gathering that surrounds habibullah they are all ahlul bayt up there they are friends and lovers of haqq its only us down here who have our titles and quarrel with each other even when people go to hajj we push and shove each other but just about the kabba their is a spiritual maqam (station) for all pious and holy ones angels and imams of ahlul bayt everyone holy one doing tawaaf saying look down there at them how they push and shove if only they could see how we hold hands and sing in love of everything Rasulallah loves.

I'm sunni and shia he who follows Ali will come to the house of rasulallah he who follows habibullah will see the face of Ali.

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