ShiaChat meet in Washington, D.C., area!

[Mohamed]

Well, I'm not even from the area, but I'm here for the summer and I'd like to meet the other local ShiaChatters or even the local Shi'as, if there are any. I know there's a handful of people from SFPA I could get together.

Anyway, what day of the week would work best? Insha'Allah we can just do a dinner out kind of thing, unless anyone has a better idea.

P.S. Even if you may not be able to make it, please at least post up and let me know that other Shi'a do exist in D.C.! Thanks. :)

Edited July 6, 2004 by Mohamed

[Pyarilarki06]

there are tons of people in the maryland area...if you go to the Idaara center, you'll spot some shiachatters as well as other youths.

[DaSouljah]

theres also the IEC islamic center..

[Mohamed]

Well, problem with both scenarios: neither center has an updated website. Idara's site was last updated prior to the month of Muharram 1425 AH and I can't even find a site for IEC. Thus, I have no idea when their programs are, etc.

Regardless... That doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to have a meet here in D.C. Buuuuut... It doesn't look like D.C. has it "going on" (ShiaChat-wise)...

I dunno, are there any D.C.-area ShiaChatters here? :blink:

[rahat]

im an idara guy, ill post of the schedule, i think i have it via email.

-

rahat

[GHULAAM E ABBAS]

why dont you guyz come to idara jafria on thursday....

we got dua i kumil

then namaz and then matam

[Mohamed]

Matam this Thursday night? What's the occasion?

[FriendlyGuy]

Mataam is done every thursday night. I love matam, but doing it every thursday night (regardless of wiladat), seems a bit ... disrespectful.

[GHULAAM E ABBAS]

no no

not done on thursdays when it is a shab of wiladet

[Mohamed]

But it's done all other Thursday nights (ie. non-milad nights)?

[FriendlyGuy]

its done every single thursday night, whether there is a milad or not, the example of such was only a few weeks ago when it was performed on the wiladat of bibi zainab.

[Mohamed]

What else makes up the Thursday night program? A group of D.C.-area people may be coming to Idara this week, insha'Allah.

[rahat]

Maulana Naqvi is teaching a phenomenal class for the youth. You should attend, its amazing!

-

rahat

[Mohamed]

im an idara guy, ill post of the schedule, i think i have it via email.

-

rahat

Psssssst! Where's that schedule? ^_^

[GHULAAM E ABBAS]

its done every single thursday night, whether there is a milad or not, the example of such was only a few weeks ago when it was performed on the wiladat of bibi zainab.

that thursday was milad only. it was not actual shab of wiladat. the reason they had milad on thursday was that people come come for dua e kumail and milad.

[Mohamed]

Anyway... Can a brother get ahold of Idara's schedule, both for the general programs and the youth programs? Thanks, I really appreciate it.

[The Canuck]

(salam)

Question: Why would people mourn on birthdays? and on every thursday? this doesn't make sense.

Please can you guys use all english words when you speak, in order to remove confusion, thanks. Instead of throwing in Arabic and Farsi words.

Salam.

[rahat]

Sorry for the delay!!

This weekend there is a picnic sponsored by the Idara:

Where: Blackhill regional park, Montegomery County

When: July 18th 11am

Why: Picnic(Fun)

Next friday at 7 pm there will be a Youth Meeting.

Next saturday around maghrib time there will be a majalis

[Mohamed]

Thanks Br. Rahat. I spoke with your brother on the phone yesterday and he let me know about the picnic, too. I was wondering, besides the regular Thursday programs and the bi-monthly youth events, on what other days will people be at the center? I mean, does the center hold five daily prayers, Friday & Saturday night activities, etc.? It'd be nice to even come to the center and see the place.

Thanks.

[rahat]

Friday prayers are held regularly, but beyond that theres no regular 5 daily salaat. As for the other times, there's always a wiladat or shahadat thats being observed.

Saturday august 7th - jashan e wiladat janab e fatima 7.30 pm

thursday august 19 - majlis shahadat imam ali naqi 8 pm

sunday august 22 - jashan e waladat imam mumhammad baqir (as)

sunday august 28 - jashan e wiladat imam ali and imam taqi (as) 7.15 pm

september 2nd - majlis hahadat janab e zainab as 8 pm

september 9- majlis shahdat imam musa kazim 8 pm

september 14 - majlis safar imma husain 6pm

september 18 - jashan e wiladat imam husain imam zainul abideen and hazrat abbas (as) 7.45pm

september 19 - jashan e meraj 7.45pm

september 29 - aamal shab e qadr and jashan e wiladat imam zamana 7.30 pm

this is probably the abbreviated schedule, as it is often the case that families will hold majalis for their deceased family members. these are often open to everyone who wants to come. they make announcements for such events at jumaa, so keep ur ears peeled.

[Mohamed]

Salaam.

Sorry for the extremely late notice, but about ten to fifteen of us (D.C. interns, workers, etc.) are heading up to Idara tonight. Hope to meet with some of you, insha'Allah.

[GHULAAM E ABBAS]

did you guyz made it??

i didnt saw any new faces

thanx

[Mohamed]

Salaam.

Yeah, we made it, albeit a bit late. We got there 5 minutes before Du'a Kumail ended and a majority of us were outside during the marsiyya & maatam.

[GHULAAM E ABBAS]

why didnt you guyz join in?

[Mohamed]

Many reasons. My personal thoughts:

1) Not all of us understand/agree with the ideology behind maatam every Thursday night. Meaning that, to some, maatam should be a true expression of grief that cannot be turned on and off. During the month of Muharram and through arba'een, we observe a state of mourning during which we are accustomed to hearing and reacting to azadari. Outside of this timeframe, many feel that although we should remember the tragedy, and we do, it is not customary to perform maatam.

2) Many also feel that although we should always be aware of the sacrifices made in the history of Islam, we should not mourn for the sake of mourning, or perform maatam for the sake of performing maatam.

3) Not all Muslims of South Asian descent are fully able to appreciate the beauty and intricacy of Urdu poetry, thus hindering their emotions from coming out in a manner that produces maatam.

4) The group included Sunni Muslims for whom it is uncustomary to recite marsiyya & perform maatam.

Edited July 28, 2004 by Mohamed

[GHULAAM E ABBAS]

Many reasons.  My personal thoughts:

1)  Not all of us understand/agree with the ideology behind maatam every Thursday night.  Meaning that, to some, maatam should be a true expression of grief that cannot be turned on and off.  During the month of Muharram and through arba'een, we observe a state of mourning during which we are accustomed to hearing and reacting to azadari.  Outside of this timeframe, many feel that although we should remember the tragedy, and we do, it is not customary to perform maatam.

2)  Many also feel that although we should always be aware of the sacrifices made in the history of Islam, we should not mourn for the sake of mourning, or perform maatam for the sake of performing maatam.

3)  Not all Muslims of South Asian descent are fully able to appreciate the beauty and intricacy of Urdu poetry, thus hindering their emotions from coming out in a manner that produces maatam.

4)  The group included Sunni Muslims for whom it is uncustomary to recite marsiyya & perform maatam.

i do respect your personal thoughts.

however

Azadari of Ahyal e Byat (as) can not be restricted to month of muhraam or till arbaeen. As we all know the period of mourning after Karbala was over years not days or till arbaeen.The Shi'a following dont let you celebrate many days but let you do matam year round.

performaing matam does the job which you are concern in number 2. It not only remind people the great stand of Imam e Mazloom (as) but also show the identy of Shi'a Nation. And also remind people the shi'a will not vanish from universe whatever they want to do.

Ma As Salam

Edited July 29, 2004 by GHULAAM E ABBAS

[Mohamed]

I don't propose any kind of restriction of the recognition of the atrocity at Karbala to a few days of the year, but I simply do not believe that we should try to incorporate the mourning of the event into what we consider the orthodoxy or basics of our faith. I completely agree that the practice of maatam comes in the process of mourning, but it is not a necessary method of uplifting or declaring our support of the Ahl al-Bayt.

Also, the period of mourning after the event of Aashura, 61 AH, may have lasted for a period of months or years, but does that mean by default that we should ascribe to the same practice in our lives? Should we mourn and continue to mourn (note: not just recognize and remember, but actually mourn and perform maatam for) the event of Aashura every single day of our lives? This is more of a rhetorical question than a literal one, as I believe that maatam is a method of expression, not an act of belief in and of itself.

Furthermore, I would disagree that maatam serves to remind us of the sacrifices made in the history of Islam. As a basic outpouring of emotion, its source should be grief and mourning and its purpose should only seek to express this outpouring. The process should not work the other way around.

Lastly, regarding the concept of defending the "Shi'a Nation", the event of Aashura is a universal tragedy, both in regards to the massacre of the dearly beloved of the Prophet of Islam (S.A.W.), but also in a basic human rights perspective. Thus, we should not cling to this event as our own, as Shi'a Muslims. Rather, we should extend the message of this sacrifice to all people, especially our fellow Muslims, whether they be Shi'a or otherwise. Advertising the action of maatam as part of the "identity" of this Shi'a Nation completely disregards all other aspects of our faith that unite us with other Muslims and only alienates us into a category of people who are often mistaken to love Imam Hussein (A.S.) and Hazrat Abbas (A.S.) more than we love the Prophet (S.A.W.) himself. We should never forget the message brought by the Prophet (S.A.W.) and our all-encompassing faith. I do not believe there is an imminent threat to Shi'a Muslims as a whole, nor do I believe it is fit for us to intentionally segregate ourselves into a nation within a nation (Shi'a Muslims within the true ummah of Muslims), thus I believe we should move away from our methods of expressing grief as our identity and instead regain our position within the 1.3 billion-large ummah established by the Prophet (S.A.W.).

[GHULAAM E ABBAS]

dont agree with most of your post brother but i am not going to arguee as we are travelling 2 different directions

was salam

[Mohamed]

Brother, I did not intend to start an argument, but rather a discussion. I am always open to learning more and growing in my thoughts and opinions. Please share your thoughts.

[bin bashir]

(salam)

Both of you brothers bring about excellent points. I hope you don't mind me adding a few comments to the discussion.

It is quoted in the books of hadith and by the `ulama that the women of the Bani Hashim did not feast or celebrate for years after `Ashura. This point holds more importance than just refraining from celebration. In this time, many sons were born to the Bani Hashim, and many girls, also there were weddings and life did contine. However, contrary to the customary celebrations that tribes/families would have at these events, the women of the Bani Hashim did not only refrain from celebrating, they would refrain from gathering together in one home for a single night of dinner and fraternity.

From this many of the Shi`ah have understood that although public displays of mourning (i.e. latmiyyah, matam) may prove hurtful to the general masses; within the Bani Hashim the day of `Ashura remained every day for them, and the land of Karbala remained every land for them.

In reference to your point regarding rememberance: any mention of the Imams can be considered an act of `ibadah, whether this be in du`a, dhikr, or latmiyyah.

Regarding the "Shi`ah Nation:" Although it is true that many people can share in our understanding and education through Karbala, the fact of the matter remains, that Imam Husayn (as) is understood the most through his offspring and their supporters, friends, and students. Thus who can to truly appreciate `Ashura when they cannot even appreciate Islam or Nubuwwah, or Imamah, or Walayah? These are all aspects that tie into the reality of Karbala and the Shahadah of our Imam (as) .

You should look into the history of the usages of Latmiyyah by the Bani Hashim and their Shi`ah in preperations for the Lesser Jihad (revolutions against the corrupt and injust caliphs). Moreover, please look at what is happening in the cities of the Bani Hashim today? Look what travesties befall the Shi`ah of Najaf al-Ashraf!

There was once a time that at any given moment you could stumble into a backroom Husayniyyah in Karbala and find the Shi`ah crying and lamenting their martyred Imam (as) . There was once a time when the youth of the Bani Hashim and their Shi`ah would beat their chests in preparation for their beloved marturdom, so that they could join their martyred Imam (as).

Please consider all these points and try not to worry too much about the image.

And please make du`a for the re-apperance of our Standing, Beloved, Imam Aba Salih al-Mahdi (`ajjalallah ta`ala farajuh ash-sharif) and for Allah to Bless His Fathers and Mother, the Lady of Light, Hadrat Fatimah as-Saddiqah az-Zahra.

(salam)

[GHULAAM E ABBAS]

Brother, I did not intend to start an argument, but rather a discussion.  I am always open to learning more and growing in my thoughts and opinions.  Please share your thoughts.

salam Brother

What you want me to say more after read following in your posr

thus I believe we should move away from our methods of expressing grief

salamz

Edited August 20, 2004 by GHULAAM E ABBAS

[Mohamed]

I asked you to share your thoughts, that's all. For you to selectively quote me is unfair, brother. My full quote was as follows, and the latter part of the quote is just as significant to the statement as the former:

thus I believe we should move away from our methods of expressing grief as our identity and instead regain our position within the 1.3 billion-large ummah established by the Prophet (S.A.W.)

I am simply a student, brother, as we all should be, and am willing to listen if you are willing to speak.

Edited August 25, 2004 by Mohamed

[GHULAAM E ABBAS]

it was nice to see your reply borther.....

i just came back from boston after a long and tiring day, so please give me a day to get back to you with my full thoughts but in mean while just give a thought to how we shia survived past 1400 years when evey other ruler want to kill us. how we kept our identity?

Thanx

[Mohamed]

For me to defend my thoughts based on the survival of the Shi'a ummah would take this discussion out of context, in my opinion. Are you meaning to say that Shi'a Muslims have kept our identity solely because of the methods by which we mourn the tragedy of Karbala (by maatam, zanjeer, etc.)?

[Guest Sayedkk]

Salam

I also agree. Latom should not be performed for the sake of latom. Doing latom every thursday and on the birthdays of people is wrong. Latom is only for expressing grief, not for showing people shia will never leave.

Wasalam