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In the Name of God بسم الله

A question about abortion

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Why don't you do some background research on the Christian doctrine of the original sin, and the Calvinist doctrine of Total Depravity, instead of exposing your ignorance and feel-good lieberalism.

So, are you saying that you are a Calvinist?

If so, then tell me, how does preventing a child, who is ALREADY destined to hell, from being aborted going to help that child?

Why bring a hell-bound child into this world, when one could make the trip short by stopping it from even being born?

Edited by Karaite
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Reverend Matthew - thanks, I'll be sure to put your views in the 'Humour' section of my essay. :)

Since I am obviously talking to a junior here, I'll try to keep it simple by avoiding "big words" and long sentences:

1. These are not my views. Every Christian, and even heretics like the Catholics share these because they come directly from the Bible.

2. If you can convince me that aborted/stillborn/too young to accept Jesus babies do not go to Hell, I will happily pack my AK-47, get several extra clips, and head off to the Tri-County Hospital and Medical Center's Maternity Ward, as to ensure that the numerous babies within will go directly to Heaven.

3. I hope whoever will be grading your essay will know a thing or two about Christianity, and will appropriately mark down your grade for the lack of sufficient research of the subject.

SolidRock,

You see here in America, it's not the Osama Bin Ladens I'm weary of.......it's the Rev. Matthews and the Eric Rudolphs, etc. You have extremists in all things.....religion or no religion.

P.S. You have to ask yourself, he's a reverend with an outlawed automatic rifle (Note, he said "several EXTRA clips" as if that one or whatever he has will not be sufficient) and he walks amongst us. The next time you read a story in the news about "Preacher guns down 4 at Babys R US as he hunts down Lucifer"........remember we chatted with him on the world wide web.

Djibril

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However, Djibril, I can rest assured that this Matthew fella is just being a fool letting his mouth loose. But I know that he would probably have far more restraint than a Muslim extremist, who seriously believes that destroying the enemy by all means possible is approved by Allah.

Of course, by no means as do you take this as an approval of this Matthew fella, nor as a cheap shot at the Muslims here. I don't believe that all Muslims are depraved of morality, that was merely a comparison in regards to your own comparison.

Blessings!

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However, Djibril, I can rest assured that this Matthew fella is just being a fool letting his mouth loose. But I know that he would probably have far more restraint than a Muslim extremist, who seriously believes that destroying the enemy by all means possible is approved by Allah.

At least you can understand occasional sarcasm... you might not be as dumb as I thought, so we may have a chance to turn into a True Christian.

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So, are you saying that you are a Calvinist?

Yes.

If so, then tell me, how does preventing a child, who is ALREADY destined to hell, from being aborted going to help that child?

Are you Jesus? Because if you are not, I don't know how you could possibly know whether the child in question is one of the Elect.

Edited by Reverend Matthew
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So, are you saying that you are a Calvinist?

Yes.

If so, then tell me, how does preventing a child, who is ALREADY destined to hell, from being aborted going to help that child?

Are you Jesus? Because if you are not, I don't know how you could possibly know whether the child in question is one of the Elect.

I believe since you are a Calvinist he assumed that you were a Fatalist, and thus knew the answer for predetermined .....

---River

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OK, I'm not in the mood do get into an argument with muppets like you so I'll just say

STOP BEGGING QUESTIONS

STOP APPEALING TO AUTHORITY

I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU'RE BIBLE SAYS THE FACT IS GOD SHOULD HAVE DONE SOMETHING ABOUT IT BECAUSE THE BABIES CAN'T!

God expects us to try to solve our own problems; He will help, when it becomes necessary. why do you think it is that there are so many goal oriented christian organizations?

matthew: :rolleyes: how did i know you were going to be a calvinist? ;) :P

how, pray tell, can you judge another's soul? are you made aware of infant's Election or Non-Election?

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Are you Jesus? Because if you are not, I don't know how you could possibly know whether the child in question is one of the Elect.

But doesn't that still prove my point? If the child is one of the Elect, then can it be stolen? Can it be "dis-elected"?

I would think, a true Calvinist would not be able to say that anyone can take the Elect out of God's hand. And so, since one is Elected from before the foundation of the world, then how can that Election be made null by the hands of a mere human?

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Are you Jesus?  Because if you are not, I don't know how you could possibly know whether the child in question is one of the Elect.

But doesn't that still prove my point? If the child is one of the Elect, then can it be stolen? Can it be "dis-elected"?

I would think, a true Calvinist would not be able to say that anyone can take the Elect out of God's hand. And so, since one is Elected from before the foundation of the world, then how can that Election be made null by the hands of a mere human?

This has been explained in detail by numerous True Christians. Don't blame your ignorance on Esteemed Men of God, such as Reverend Matthew.

For starters, read some of the writings by Ulrich Zwingly Ulrich_Zwingli.jpg, John Knox John_Knox.jpg, and Richard Baxter baxter1.jpg.

An insolent dolt like you should be learning from Reverend Matthew, not critisizing him.

Hope this answers your heart's questioning.

Edited by John Murray Penfold
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To quote Brother D. Thomas, "often stupid people don't realize that they are stupid because of how stupid they are."

In my observations it is usually the ignorant who are quick to call others stupid and think they have the capacity to pass judgement on others.

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2. If you can convince me that aborted/stillborn/too young to accept Jesus babies do not go to Hell, I will happily pack my AK-47, get several extra clips, and head off to the Tri-County Hospital and Medical Center's Maternity Ward, as to ensure that the numerous babies within will go directly to Heaven.

I don't know about anybody else but this sounds like something that should be reported to the proper authoritys. <_<

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Are you Jesus?  Because if you are not, I don't know how you could possibly know whether the child in question is one of the Elect.

But doesn't that still prove my point? If the child is one of the Elect, then can it be stolen? Can it be "dis-elected"?

I would think, a true Calvinist would not be able to say that anyone can take the Elect out of God's hand. And so, since one is Elected from before the foundation of the world, then how can that Election be made null by the hands of a mere human?

This has been explained in detail by numerous True Christians. Don't blame your ignorance on Esteemed Men of God, such as Reverend Matthew.

For starters, read some of the writings by Ulrich Zwingly Ulrich_Zwingli.jpg, John Knox John_Knox.jpg, and Richard Baxter baxter1.jpg.

An insolent dolt like you should be learning from Reverend Matthew, not critisizing him.

Hope this answers your heart's questioning.

Now that's what I'm talking about.....this is that Christian love that SolidRock used to talk to me about.

I'm being sarcastic. Mr. Penfold, WOC, Warrior Against Christ or WAC, whatever, why call the man out of his name? His views may be different from yours but supposedly you both pray to the same God. I find it ironic that people like you are quick to call Muslims "vermin" like you did in another thread but you can't even give a fellow Christian their proper respect. I truly understand why some people are fed up with religion in general. I'm not standing up for Karaite as he can stand up for himself but I can not stand how people use the internet for artificial courage. "Insolent dolt"........where is that found in the message of love that you guys preach to us?

May God have mercy on us all and guide all towards truth wherever it may take us.

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I'm being sarcastic. Mr. Penfold, WOC, Warrior Against Christ or WAC, whatever, why call the man out of his name

Um bro I am not involved in this thread ? And why do you have to change my name ? you don't see me changing your name to bro.Djibrilagainstallah please have some respect.

Edited by WarriorofJesus
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I'm being sarcastic. Mr. Penfold, WOC, Warrior Against Christ or WAC, whatever, why call the man out of his name

Um bro I am not involved in this thread ? And why do you have to change my name ? you don't see me changing your name to bro.Djibrilagainstallah please have some respect.

If you looked at the other gentlemen's post then you would see that he used a similar title as well. Examine the preceding response against Karaite and you'll see what I mean. Apology accepted.

Edited by Bro.Djibril
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I'm being sarcastic. Mr. Penfold, WOC, Warrior Against Christ or WAC, whatever, why call the man out of his name

Um bro I am not involved in this thread ? And why do you have to change my name ? you don't see me changing your name to bro.Djibrilagainstallah please have some respect.

If you looked at the other gentlemen's post then you would see that he used that title as well. Examine the preceding response against Karaite and you'll see what I mean. Apology accepted.

So you won't have to scroll up this is what I was referring to. Unless I specifically say "Warrior of Jesus" then understand that I was not talking to you, about you, or referring to you. I keep my interaction on this forum as minimal as possible because of little stuff like this. People see what they want to see, read what they to read, hear what they want to hear. I saw someone calling your fellow brother out of his name and I addressed it.

--------------------

John Murray Penfold

Warrior for Christ

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This has been explained in detail by numerous True Christians.  Don't blame your ignorance on Esteemed Men of God, such as Reverend Matthew.

Interestingly enough, you don't seem to know the answer... perhaps you need to read it yourself, and then come and communicate it to me?

By the way, you remind me of a fella named Naziri, who used to come in here with a number of surnames, posing as if he was a different fella supporting the same cause...

You are using the same tactic, trying to pose as different surnames supporting the same KJV-onlyist group. Pick one name, and defend your position...

Edited by Karaite
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If you looked at the other gentlemen's post then you would see that he used that title as well. Examine the preceding response against Karaite and you'll see what I mean. Apology accepted. 

So you won't have to scroll up this is what I was referring to. Unless I specifically say "Warrior of Jesus" then understand that I was not talking to you, about you, or referring to you. I keep my interaction on this forum as minimal as possible because of little stuff like this. People see what they want to see, read what they to read, hear what they want to hear. I saw someone calling your fellow brother out of his name and I addressed it.

Sorry about that, I didnt see that, I thought you was referring to me my old nick here was WarriorofChrist.

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matthew: :rolleyes: how did i know you were going to be a calvinist? ;) :P

how, pray tell, can you judge another's soul? are you made aware of infant's Election or Non-Election?

Matthew??? It is Reverend Matthew or Mr. Matthew, ignoramus.

Regarding judging, only Jesus can, and will judge other's souls. May I suggest "Hooked-On-Phonics?" I heard it helps with illiteracy.

Additionally, True Christians MUST judge others. Jesus commanded us to do so. (John 7:24, Luke 7:43, Luke 12:57, 1 Corinthians 10:15, 1 Corinthians 2:15, and many others).

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2. If you can convince me that aborted/stillborn/too young to accept Jesus babies do not go to Hell, I will happily pack my AK-47, get several extra clips, and head off to the Tri-County Hospital and Medical Center's Maternity Ward, as to ensure that the numerous babies within will go directly to Heaven.

I don't know about anybody else but this sounds like something that should be reported to the proper authoritys. <_<

I am not going to comment on the fact that this comes from a woman, since all the implications of that have been covered elsewhere.

But regarding the "proper authorities," they are all members of the congregation, so we have a complete understanding on these matters.

Edited by Reverend Matthew
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This has been explained in detail by numerous True Christians.  Don't blame your ignorance on Esteemed Men of God, such as Reverend Matthew.

Interestingly enough, you don't seem to know the answer... perhaps you need to read it yourself, and then come and communicate it to me?

By the way, you remind me of a fella named Naziri, who used to come in here with a number of surnames, posing as if he was a different fella supporting the same cause...

You are using the same tactic, trying to pose as different surnames supporting the same KJV-onlyist group. Pick one name, and defend your position...

Since you are another junior here, I'll talk to you in points as well:

1. I don't have a surname. I have a last name, and it is Matthew.

2. As Mr. Penfold, who is a tallented preacher and a True Man of God, has mentioned, the issue has been discussed and explained. I believe Baxter wrote several books on this very topic.

3. Your answer: Election does not guarantee salvation before atonment. Only after accepting Jesus as his Lord and Savior, does the child in question become Saved.

4. For more Godly enlightment visit True Christians Unite, where we educate heathens regarding True Christianity.

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2. If you can convince me that aborted/stillborn/too young to accept Jesus babies do not go to Hell, I will happily pack my AK-47, get several extra clips, and head off to the Tri-County Hospital and Medical Center's Maternity Ward, as to ensure that the numerous babies within will go directly to Heaven.

I don't know about anybody else but this sounds like something that should be reported to the proper authoritys. <_<

I am not going to comment on the fact that this comes from a woman, since all the implications of that have been covered elsewhere.

But regarding the "proper authorities," they are all members of the congregation, so we have a complete understanding on these matters.

Tread very lightly. In Islam women are treated with respect and we are equal in the eyes of our creator. And we do have admins here who do not take kindly to men disrespecting sisters. You have a nice day :D

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Since you are another junior here, I'll talk to you in points as well:

1 Timothy 4:12

Let no one look down on your youthfulness, but rather in speech, conduct, love, faith and purity, show yourself an example of those who believe.

1.  I don't have a surname.  I have a last name, and it is Matthew.

Strangely enough, people keep showing up with these strange names, and they are all supporting you... they come in and post a couple times, and leave.

2.  As Mr. Penfold, who is a tallented preacher and a True Man of God, has mentioned, the issue has been discussed and explained.  I believe Baxter wrote several books on this very topic.

I never doubted that the issue had been discussed. I asked you to explain it to me, because you are the one making the argument here, not Baxter or anyone else.

3.  Your answer:  Election does not guarantee salvation before atonment.  Only after accepting Jesus as his Lord and Savior, does the child in question become Saved.

But atonement was done by Christ, not by the individual. If God chooses someone, who can take him away from God?

For that matter, what is your understanding of "destiny"? Is destiny something you can change, or is it something already decided? The common use of it, is that it is predetermined. Which means that it cannot be changed. So, being that it cannot be changed, it must be accepted that whatever happens, whether for life or for death, it is in fact your pre-determined destiny that is happening.

4.  For more Godly enlightment visit True Christians Unite, where we educate heathens regarding True Christianity.

I don't make a habit of following too many URLs, because I rather have someone sit down and reason with me, rather to just have someone preach, and not respond to resulting questions.

Blessings!

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1 Timothy 4:12

Let no one look down on your youthfulness, but rather in speech, conduct, love, faith and purity, show yourself an example of those who believe.

Incorrect!

1 Timothy 4:12

Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.

Regardless of your age, you are indeed my junior due to your lack of Biblical scholarship, and no desire to receive such where it is given, at True Christians Unite.

If God chooses someone, who can take him away from God?

John 14:6

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

NOONE can come to the Lord without being born again.

For that matter, what is your understanding of "destiny"? Is destiny something you can change, or is it something already decided? The common use of it, is that it is predetermined. Which means that it cannot be changed. So, being that it cannot be changed, it must be accepted that whatever happens, whether for life or for death, it is in fact your pre-determined destiny that is happening.

We have free will. What you may think of as destiny is more akin to your future being known already. It does not exclude your ability to make choices. The Lord simply knows which choices you will make.

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