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Guest hussam

is lobster haraam?

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Guest hussam

I was asked this, and all I could find was the following article and it says

The case of lobster is still undecided because of ambiguity in its

classification: is it a shrimp just bigger in size, or is it a different kind

of sea animal? Therefore, it is better to refrain from lobster until the

issue is settled.

here is the whole article

http://www.al-islam.org/organizations/Aali...k/msg00283.html

anyone know anything else??

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Sallams

I have heard its haram.. coz it has no scales... but i dnt know whether that is the fact... but why would u wanna eat it... it doesnt look tasty does it..?

Take care and in good health

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Salaam alaikum,

The only thing we can eat from the sea, is fish with scales and shrimp. I really don't know why that Q&A says that. I don't know anyone that thinks a lobster is a big shrimp. If lobsters were just big shrimp, then there would be no little lobsters. But since crawfish are like miniture lobsters, obviously lobsters aren't just big shrimp. Crawfish have hard shells and look just like lobsters, shrimp have thinner, softer shells.

WaSalaam, Hajar

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Aslamo 3alikum,

Fishes without scales: I have heard that it is Makrooh to eat such fishes..

can anyone please tell me if it is totally haram?? :donno:

ma'salama

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Salaam

Fish without scales are haraam to eat. There is also an hadith attributed to Imam Jaffer Sadiq (as) on this.

As for lobsters, here is a verdict from Ayatollah Seestani (HA):

Q. Firstly, is it permissible to eat lobster? Secondly, if eating a lobster is essentially permissible (halal), then would it still be permissible if it dies in he water (as that is the normal way of cooking it by putting it alive in boiling water).

A. It is not permissible. And Allah knows the best.

[There had been some confusion in the community on whether or not lobster was halal or haram. The confusion arose because of the problem in defining it--is it a separate sea creature or is it just a 'bigger brother' of the shrimp? Shrimps are halal to eat without any exception.

The above question was recently sent (in Safar, 1419A.H.) by Hujjatul Islam Sayyid Saeed Akhtar Rizvi to Ayatullah al-uzma as-Sistani. He explained what a lobster is, how it is normally cooked and also sent along a picture of the lobster along with a picture of a shrimp].

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Guest hussam

ok thanks

btw I did not want to eat lobster I was asked this, looked at some ulema websites and couldn't find the answer

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786-110

Salam@lai.com

Zareen,

Have you read Ali786's post?

If not I suggest you should.

Wassalaam

Aga Sayyid Seestani says it is haram to eat lobsters. What did I miss out?

That is also what I read in the Risalah of Sayyid Al-khoei sometimes ago.

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My Sunni friends say, "Crab, Squid and lobsters are only Makrooh"

Salaamz...

Are crabs Haraam??? or Makrooh...???

I heard it's Makrooh to eat Shrimp... Right? But that is what I use for my meat-substitute at restaurants... Cause I get tired of eating fish all the time....

If any of you go to Applebee's... They make one of the best fish sandwiches ever...!! The Blackened Whitefish Sandwich....!! Ya'll should try it... :) Whitefish have scales... Right....???

As for Squid... Ewww...!!! :no: Gross...!! And who in their right mind would want to eat Frog Legs...!! Another major no-no...!! Too gross...!!

Oh... Are Shrimp unhealthy to eat....?? Because this one Jewish lady told me that if you look closely at shrimp... There is a little black line going down the center of their backs (she is right)... and she says that they have a lot of toxins in them that are unhealthy for us...!! What do you all say...???

Take care ya'll... ma'Salaama :)

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sallam

I heard anything that makes a person feel grossed out is haraam.yumm applebees..what about eating shark? i saw my parents eating shark once.I think shrimps are delicious..got to Red lobster... :rolleyes:

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salam

crabs and octapus and squids are definetly haram

as for lobsters, i heard it's halal because it has scales (large ones) and it doesn't have the claws because it doesn't hunt for meat.

salamz

Lobsters don't have Claws? Err.... what kinda lobster are you talking about because all the lobsters I've seen have a choppers that they tie down using rubberbands.

Sunni will eat ANY animal in the sea.

Maulana Muhammad Rizvi gave a great answer to this very same question on Al-Islam.org (about Scales vs. no scales) search for it.

Anyway, Most marjaa allow shrimp (ie not Makrooh).

Btw Lobsters have an EXO-skeleton. Ie they are considered SHELL-FISH. (thus they arent "scaled"). Also judaic law forbids lobster, crabs, etc as well.

Wa Salaam,

Dhulfiqar

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Oh... Are Shrimp unhealthy to eat....?? Because this one Jewish lady told me that if you look closely at shrimp... There is a little black line going down the center of their backs (she is right)... and she says that they have a lot of toxins in them that are unhealthy for us...!! What do you all say...???

Salaam alaikum,

This is their intestinal track. If you leave them in water, alive, it will clear. Or you can de-vein them, just slip a fork in there and clean it out. They also have a special tool for this. But it's not toxic, it's just kind of gritty. And that's only on the large ones, the small and medium ones don't need de-veining.

WaSalaam, Hajar

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why would lobster, crab and e.g. mussels be haram?

what's the religious reason for this, is there any hadith specifically banning them?

or is it just an educated interpretation of something vague?

and are marja3s unanimous on this.

it's certainly not in the Quran banning them.

I can see predatory creatures like sharks being haram, but why lobsters, and esp. crabs and mussels. it's not like they can be slaughtered :)

i'm very interested in this thread cos it'll certainly affect the restaurants I go to.

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If the Quran puts a general rule, why do the Ulama make more branches??

The Quran said: "Hullet lakum thimar ilbahar"....to me it sounds Everything in the sea..it doesnt say fish with scales......I dunno :unsure:

I just thought that the Quran was the basic merji3 in such cases.....

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You guys!

QUESTION:

I have been corresponding with a sunni sister regarding dietary

laws that the Sunni do not recognize.  Specifically, the restriction on

seafood with the exception of fish with scales and shrimp.  She has asked

in the following message, for a (Shia) scholar's interpretation, of why

others are considered haram.  I would like, if possible, to address the

answer in terms of hadith that are available, Qur'anic verses, etc.  So

that I may show her the sources.  Thank you in advance.

---------- Forwarded message -------------------------------------------

> I am curious as to the reasoning for declaring the shellfish

>haraam. As I said in a previous message, I know there is an ayah which

>talks about the sea creatures being ok to eat; I don't know the Arabic and

>haven't even got an exact quote from a translation, so I hope somebody

>finds this ayah. But anyway,I had thought that all but Shafi'i madhhab in

>Sunni Islam said the shell fish was ok, and not even all Shafi'i agree

>that its not. So, I'm interested in the Shi'ah interpretation to the

>contrary and what is the evidence or reasoning and how is the ayah

>interpreted to allow for such reasoning? I'm not trying to begin an

>argument; rather, I'm trying to understand the other point of view.

> My question would be, concerning the animals you mentioned which

>aren't specifically listed as haraam in the Qur'an, is there a Qur'anic

>ayah which while not specifically mentioning those animals, mentions a

>type or class which includes them? Or do we have very clear authentic

>well-known evidence hadith that indicates the prophet (saw) did not eat

>such and forbade or discouraged it etc? ON the other hand, the phrase you

>quoted in Arabic, catch of the sea would seem, as you said to be a general

>and all encompassing term for those things you get from the sea. As I

>understand the root sayd, refers to hunting and/or fishing for live food.

>Never heard of its use in terms of gathering, which would be implied when

>speaking of things like seaweed or pearls etc, but I'm also not an Arabic

>scholar. What I'm trying to get at here is that it seems to me that Allah

>(swt) is being pretty general and at the same time specific in allowing us

>to use whatever we get from the sea, at least in terms of live creatures

>by using that word sayd. But like I said, I am no scholar, so I'd be

>interested in hearing other lines of reasoning from scholars.

>

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

ANSWER:

1. The Sources of Islamic Laws:

We must first of all define the sources of Islamic laws. According to all

Muslims, Shi`as and Sunnis alike, the laws of Islam are not only derived

from the Qur'an. The Qur'an, being the word of Allah, is the foundation; but

one cannot, under any circumstances, ignore the sunnah of the Prophet and

Imams. Not only that; many times, the Qur'anic verses themselves have to be

understood in the light of the explanation given by the Prophet and the Imams.

2. Verse 5:99

Most of the Sunni schools of fiqh allow most of the sea food. The Shi`a

school, on the other hand, allows only the scale-fish, prawns and shrimps.

Many people like to quote verse no. 5:99 about sea food. It says:

"Allowed for you is the GAME OF THE SEA AND ITS FOOD, as a provision for you

and for the travellers." They conclude that based on this verse all sea food

should be allowed.

First of all, you have to look at the context of the verse. It was revealed

as part of the rules explaining the restrictions on a person who is in ihram

(the pilgrim's garment) during the pilgrimage. The whole passages reads as

follows:

"O you who believe!

"Do not kill the game while you are in the pilgrim garb. And whosoever among

you kills it intentionally, then the compensation of it is that the like of

what he killed from the cattle as adjudged by two just men from among you.

[This compensation is] an offering to be brought to the Ka`ba, or the

expiation of it is the feeding of the poor or the equivalent of it in

fasting so that he may taste the heinousness of his deed.

God has pardoned what is gone by; and whoever returns to it, then God will

exact penalty from him, and God is Mighty, Lord of Retribution."

After this prohibition about killing the game, the next verse says:

"ALLOWED for you is the GAME OF THE SEA AND ITS FOOD, as a provision for you

and for the travellers; and FORBIDDEN for you is the GAME OF THE LAND so

long as you are in the pilgrim garb; and fear God unto whom you shall be

gathered."

What this verse is saying is that

       "the game of the sea and its food" is allowed to the pilgrims

       even when they are in the state of ihram;

       whereas the "game of the land" is haram

       as long as they are in the state of ihram.

This verse is not defining what is the permissible "food" from the game of

sea. It is just saying that whatever was allowed (in case of sea food) is

also allowed in ihram, and that whatever was allowed (in case of the game of

land) is not permissible in ihram.

If the verse is saying that all kinds of the "game of sea and its food" is

permissible, then what would one say about the next sentence---Would all

kind of land animals be allowed after the pilgrim is out of ihram?! No one

takes the expression in the second sentence "the game of the land" as a

blanket approval for all land animals. Similarly, no one should take the

expression in the first sentence "the game of sea and its food" as a blanket

approval for all sea animals.

Moreover, the words "the game of sea and ITS FOOD" show that not every

"game/catch of sea" is food; otherwise, there was no need to add the words

"and its food" in this sentence. It would mean that you are allowed to catch

many things from the sea but only "its food" is permissible for you to eat.

3. Halal Sea Food

So how do we find out what is the permissible "food" from the sea?

The second source of the shari`ah, i.e., the sunnah of the Prophet and the

Imams, has clarified for us the sea food which is halal for us. It says that

the scale-fish, prawns and shrimps are allowed; and everything else is

haram. (This is not the place to prove that the sunnah of the Imams of Ahlul

Bayt is an extension of the sunnah of the Prophet. Those who like to read on

this can refer to my "AN INTRODUCTION TO THE ISLAMIC SHARI`AH".)

Shaykh Hurr al-`Amili, for example, quotes ahadith which indicate that Imam

`Ali (a.s.) used to go around the fish market of Kufa and announce that "do

not eat or sell the fish that does not have scales". (Wasailu 'sh-Shi`ah,

vol. 16, 329-330) Other statements from the fifth and sixth Shi`a Imams

clearly forbid the eating of a fish which does not have scales. (Ibid) On

the issue of shrimps and prawns, there are quite a few ahadith in Wasa'ilu

'sh-Shi`a, vol. 16 pp. 337 to 339. For example, Imam Musa al-Kazim (a.s.)

was asked about eating shrimps, he said: "There is no problem in it; and

shrimp is a kind of fish." Similar ahadith have been narrated from Imam Riza

(a.s.) also.

In short, the sea food that is allowed to us is as follows:

       1. scale fish;

       2. shrimp and prawns.

Any non-fish sea animal and any fish which has no scales is not allowed. So

crab, shell-fish and other animals are haram in the Ja`fari fiqh.

(The case of lobster is still undecided because of ambiguity in its

classification: is it a shrimp just bigger in size, or is it a different kind

of sea animal? Therefore, it is better to refrain from lobster until the

issue is settled.)

It might be of interest to note that the Shi`as are not unique or alone on

the ruling about scale fish and skin fish. Even the dietery laws in the

present version of Torah (Old Testament) says the same about non-scale fish.

It says: "Whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in

the rivers, them shall ye eat. And all that have no fins and scales in the

seas, and in the rivers, of all that moves in the waters, and of any living

thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you...ye

shall not eat of their flesh..." (Lev. 11:9-12)

I hope this clarifies the Shi`a Ja`fari point of view on sea food as well as

the verse mentioned in the question.

Sayyid M. Rizvi

Topic finished. Over. Closed. End of discussion!

Wa Salaam,

Dhulfiqar

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Can someone list the maraji verdicts on this issue?

 

I'm not going to find a list, you can do that yourself, but according to Ayt. Sistani all shellfish are haram to eat, except shrimp and prawns.  Shellfish are generally detritus eaters, but shrimp and prawns are filter feeders which eat algae.

Salam,

And by the way, could anyone explain the difference between shrimps and prawns ?

 

Prawns are bigger shrimp.  Other than that, they are the same.  In North America we usually only see shrimp, but as I understand it, prawns are common in Australia.  

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USalam, I am not a big fan of sea food but I am pretty sure that if scientific studies were done with maraji, more species would be deemed as halal.

Pawns & shrimps belong to two sub orders yet both are halal even though none are fish.. Why not any other then?

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USalam, I am not a big fan of sea food but I am pretty sure that if scientific studies were done with maraji, more species would be deemed as halal.

Pawns & shrimps belong to two sub orders yet both are halal even though none are fish.. Why not any other then?

 

My opinion is that the division into scaled fish and non-scaled fish and shellfish and others is meant to make things easy for us.  We don't eat scavengers and we don't eat animals which eat warm blooded animals.  Most non-scaled fish and most shellfish are scavengers.  A few (sharks) are large carnivores which eat warm blooded animals.  Eating animals which eat bugs or fish is allowed.

 

Before I became Muslim I enjoyed scallops, and occasionally crab legs.  (Didn't like the rest of the crab.)  But it isn't worth the independent research to find a way to make these foods "halal for me".  It's much easier to just go with the generalization accepted by my marja that shellfish and non-scaled fish are not halal.

 

But perhaps another person has more insight into the matter.  

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Wow, umm.. so like, i've been eating haraam all my life? big lobster fan :/

 

my dad used to eat squid and he was like one strict shi'ite. 

 

my father told us that this stuff is makrooh so its fine - we just listened to him.

 

he's dead, and now i know ive been eating haraam all my life - what do i do?

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I was asked this, and all I could find was the following article and it says

here is the whole article

http://www.al-islam.org/organizations/Aali...k/msg00283.html

anyone know anything else??

 

This is exactly what i said. How could shrimp be acceptable while not lobster? Nobody ever answered the question.

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This is exactly what i said. How could shrimp be acceptable while not lobster? Nobody ever answered the question.

Because Qiyas (analogical reasoning to derive rulings) isn't allowed in Shi'ism. We have explicit narrations telling us shrimp is allowed, if it weren't for those I don't believe the scholars would've allowed them.

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My opinion is that the division into scaled fish and non-scaled fish and shellfish and others is meant to make things easy for us.  We don't eat scavengers and we don't eat animals which eat warm blooded animals.  Most non-scaled fish and most shellfish are scavengers.  A few (sharks) are large carnivores which eat warm blooded animals.  Eating animals which eat bugs or fish is allowed.

 

Before I became Muslim I enjoyed scallops, and occasionally crab legs.  (Didn't like the rest of the crab.)  But it isn't worth the independent research to find a way to make these foods "halal for me".  It's much easier to just go with the generalization accepted by my marja that shellfish and non-scaled fish are not halal.

 

But perhaps another person has more insight into the matter.  

 

Shrimp are scavangers just as lobsters are.

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Because Qiyas (analogical reasoning to derive rulings) isn't allowed in Shi'ism. We have explicit narrations telling us shrimp is allowed, if it weren't for those I don't believe the scholars would've allowed them.

 

Shrimp and lobster scavange, scavangers are haram, therefore shrimp are halal but lobster is haram.  Wait what?

 

This is right up there with...blood is haram to consume, and yet what do people do every day when they eat meat (halal or not)? They cook the animal with blood within it and eat it. Even after draining the blood from the animal, there is still plenty wishin its veins that wont be drained.

 

People will live long hard lives if they are not able to derive reality through reason.

Edited by iCambrian

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