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In the Name of God بسم الله

Ali & Haq (A Hadith)

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adeelumar

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(bismillah)

A hadith is froward from shia side while there was discussion between

Ali (ra) and Aysha (ra) that

Prophet pbuh said

"Ali is with HAq and Haq was with Ali"

-- First part specifies that Ali (ra) will always with Haq

-- Second part specifies that Haq will always remain with Ali (ra)

NOw I have question that u say that after departure of Prophet pbuh

the leadership was Haq of Ali (ra) and Abu Bakar (ra) , Umar (ra) etc dictates his Haq

If we follow second part of hadith that specifies that Haq will always be

wth Ali (ra) then we can easily say that leadership was not Haq of Ali in 25 years

after departure of Prophet because it was away from Ali (ra)

Also Ali (ra) didn't anounce any dispute / war against them which shows that they

were right because ALi (ra) is with Haq

Plz don't discuss the lives of ABu Bakar (ra) ,Umar (ra) and Ali (ra) etc bcz it's not isuue here

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your conclusions, as usual are wrong. Imam Ali (as) was right in not dividing the ummah, but that does not mean he agreed with the caliphates of the first three (which is illustrated in one of the sermons of Nahj Al-Balaghah which I posted in a thread recently).

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(bismillah)

Imam Commander of the Faithful (as) refused to give bayaat to Abu Bakr, Umar and Usman, he was forced to give allegiance to Abu Bakr after they attacked his home and crushed his wife.

The reason he didnt wage war against them, because they wore the shroud of Islam as their protection just as todays arab leaders do the same in order to have immunity from the muslims.

Wassalaam

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Adeel after all these debates i still see you rewriting the same stupid conclusions.

Sorry If it sounds mean. here Haq means righteousness and not BIRTH RIGHT or something else as you see it. And in the light of this Holy Hadeeth

of my master Hazrat Muhammad pbuh it can be easily concluded that who so ever fights Hazrat Ali (as) he or SHE is actually fighting righteousness. You can judge their motives from their onwards. :angel:

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Res Aliya and Abdulhuja

So for u r wrong in ur conclusion about mine post I request in last line of my first message that don't discuss behavior od ALi (ra) Umar (ra) and Abu Bkar (ra) about that time but see the decission of Allah

If Leadership was Haq of Ali (ra) Allah then why it was not attached to Ali in first 25 years.

I mean Why Allah(NOt Abu Bakar (ra) , Umar (ra) & Usman (ra) ) not give him Haq

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(bismillah)

Imam Commander of the Faithful (as) refused to give bayaat to Abu Bakr, Umar and Usman, he was forced to give allegiance to Abu Bakr after they attacked his home and crushed his wife.

The reason he didnt wage war against them, because they wore the shroud of Islam as their protection just as todays arab leaders do the same in order to have immunity from the muslims.

Wassalaam

Althouh I said that I not want to discuss issue of internal behavoir of Abu Bkar

Umar and ali etc yet u discuss and I am answering that

According to our books Ali (ra) give Bayat to all our Caliph

At the satrt when Prophet pbuh was live and he ordered Abu BAkar (ra) to lead the pray then Ali (ra) offered 17 prays behind Abu Bakar (ra) in the life of Prophet pbuh

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Sorry If it sounds mean. here Haq means righteousness and not BIRTH RIGHT or something else as you see it. And in the light of this Holy Hadeeth

of my master Hazrat Muhammad pbuh it can be easily concluded that who so ever fights Hazrat Ali (as) he or SHE is actually fighting righteousness. You can judge their motives from their onwards. :angel:

Plz Plz don't bring She here its the post of all He's

I means topic wl be changed

Ok I beleive Haq means righteousness but

I say that AS every thing is happened as result of willness of Allah and it was Allah who give ALi leadership after 25 years so It is clear that before leadership of ALi all other leaderships were tight

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(salam)

the point of the hadith was to tell us that no matter who distorts the intended path, Ali (as) will always the rightfull successor of the Prophet pbuh . Your argument seems to be that because *some people* elected 3 caliphas before hazrat Ali (as) then ' Haq was not with Ali'....erm no!! it just means that The Imamat which was Hazrat Ali's Haq was not recognised by *some people* because they did not take heed of that very hadith, had they taken heed they would not have disputed the Imamat.

Bear in mind that Shias of Ali did not regard the three caliphas as rightfull and inshaAllah recognised till this day that Ali is with Haq and Haq is with Ali

Syeda

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(bismillah)

A hadith is froward from shia side while there was discussion between

Ali (ra) and Aysha (ra) that

Prophet pbuh said

"Ali is with HAq and Haq was with Ali"

-- First part specifies that Ali (ra) will always with Haq

-- Second part specifies that Haq will always remain with Ali (ra)

NOw I have question that u say that after departure of Prophet pbuh

the leadership was Haq of Ali (ra) and Abu Bakar (ra) , Umar (ra) etc dictates his Haq

If we follow second part of hadith that specifies that Haq will always be

wth Ali (ra) then we can easily say that leadership was not Haq of Ali in 25 years

after departure of Prophet because it was away from Ali (ra)

Also Ali (ra) didn't anounce any dispute / war against them which shows that they

were right because ALi (ra) is with Haq

Plz don't discuss the lives of ABu Bakar (ra) ,Umar (ra) and Ali (ra) etc bcz it's not isuue here

the character of Ali (as) is better than to be influenced in such a manner. What would've you liked Ali (as) to do? Instigate a rebellion like Ayesha did against Usmaan?

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Salam Alaikum

If Allah sends Haq, then it is for us to find it.

So if Haq is with Ali (A), then you got to find it.

Just because you believe Haq is with others and you make them caliph, it doesn't Allah put Haq there.

Truth is not assigned by a few people in a place called Saqeefah.

Mulahaza ho:

وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ آمِنُواْ بِمَا أَنزَلَ اللّهُ قَالُواْ نُؤْمِنُ بِمَا أُنزِلَ عَلَيْنَا وَيَكْفُرونَ بِمَا وَرَاءهُ وَهُوَ الْحَقُّ مُصَدِّقاً لِّمَا مَعَهُمْ قُلْ فَلِمَ تَقْتُلُونَ أَنبِيَاء اللّهِ مِن قَبْلُ إِن كُنتُم مُّؤْمِنِينَ {91}

[2:91] When it is said to them, "Believe in what Allah has sent down, they say, "We believe in what was sent down to us". Yet they reject all besides, even if it be the Truth confirming what is with them. Say: "Then why have you slain the prophets of Allah in the past, if you did indeed believe?"

إِنَّا أَرْسَلْنَاكَ بِالْحَقِّ بَشِيرًا وَنَذِيرًا وَلاَ تُسْأَلُ عَنْ أَصْحَابِ الْجَحِيمِ {119}

[2:119] Surely We have sent you with the Truth as a bearer of glad tidings and a warner; And you shall not be questioned about the companions of the blazing hell-fire.

Now tell us, if the Truth was with the Prophet (S), why hasn't Allah made everybody believe in the Prophet's (S) supreme status?

Allah answers:

ذَلِكَ بِأَنَّ اللّهَ نَزَّلَ الْكِتَابَ بِالْحَقِّ وَإِنَّ الَّذِينَ اخْتَلَفُواْ فِي الْكِتَابِ لَفِي شِقَاقٍ بَعِيدٍ {176}

[2:176] That is because Allah sent down the Book with Truth, but those who seek differ agains tthe Book, they are in open opposition.

That is why the Haq of Ali (A) has not been recognised - they have not understood the Quran and Sunnah and have acted against it.

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the character of Ali (as) is better than to be influenced in such a manner. What would've you liked Ali (as) to do? Instigate a rebellion like Ayesha did against Usmaan?

Off Cource the character of ALi (ra) is better and it explains the first part of hadith that Ali did HAq not to fight or demand leaddershp from first 3

Plz Don't discuss issue of Aysha (ra) here

BUt I just ask from you that if In the sight of Allah it is HAq of Ali (ra) that he is leadership of Moominieen just after Prophet pbuh tthen why it is not to Ali in 25 years

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Salam Alaikum

If Allah sends Haq, then it is for us to find it.

So if Haq is with Ali (A), then you got to find it.

Just because you believe Haq is with others and you make them caliph, it doesn't Allah put Haq there.

Truth is not assigned by a few people in a place called Saqeefah.

Every decission is thru Allah its the ultimate belief of Muslim

U say that Haq is to be searched

But It was very very unright to give Bayat to Yazeed from Imam Hussain (ra) so this haq was dictated by Yazeed and at this time Imam Hussain (ra) searched his HAq and he demanded his Haq and sacrificed his life for it

HOwever if Ali (ra) searched the same sort of HAq then why he not do so

I beleive that he had no dis-agreement with first 3 about leadership

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Bear in mind that Shias of Ali did not regard the three caliphas as rightfull and inshaAllah recognised till this day that Ali is with Haq and Haq is with Ali

Syeda

First thing that Ali didn't regard its only ur beleive we beleive in agreement of All on the truth and Islam.bcz Allah said in Quran that all the closest people of Prophet are merciful among each other.

As HAq is concerned if just after Prophet I been there and I am said to nominate the leader for MOomineen I would nominate ALi but it was a great matter and I beleive that Allah gave Haq to ALi when it became

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The Imamat which was Hazrat Ali's Haq was not recognised by *some people* because they did not take heed of that very hadith, had they taken heed they would not have disputed the Imamat.

I beleive that HAq will always stiched to Ali (ra) but I just ask to u why it not touched ALi soon after departure of Prophet pbuh

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AdeelUmar

Even if we were to accept this reference it means nothing, sonce according to you Sunni Fiqh, you can read Salat behind a Fasiq and Faajir, and Mullah Ali Qari in Sharh Fiqh Akbar said that the Sahaba read prayers behing Uthman's drunk relative. Then Saheeh al Bukharee, Bab al Salaath, has Ayesha narration stating in times of need you can pray behing a gay [nice one] - and before you cry lie its been deleted from the English edition, alhamdolilah I'll send through the original if it makes you happy.

Net result is even if Maula 'Ali did, he would have done so with his own Niyya not behind an Imam he deemed a sinful, treacherous, dishonest liar (Saheeh Muslim)

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