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In the Name of God بسم الله

Abu Bakr or Ali (Who is the real Khalif)

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again i'm saying, please read my post. the answer is there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Salaam Alaiqum,

Yaa Ali Madad

So , I see this as a nice way of telling that u, meta box,dont have a reply and have lost argument

Thanx for accepting it in and indirect way

By the way who ran away from the battle of Ohad??

Allah Hafiz

Yaa Ali Madad

Firoz Ali

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So , I see this as a nice way of telling that u, meta box,dont have a reply and have lost argument

Thanx for accepting it in and indirect way

By the way who ran away from the battle of Ohad??

firoz ali,

have you read all my post? i don't think so. if you like spoon feeding let me stress again on my stand on events that befall on any makhluk, be it in the past or in the future, its all due to qada' and qadar and all in known to Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala and all has been written in lawh mahfuz.

i don't know anything about battle of ohad. can you briefly tell me about battle of ohad and who ran away from battle. i sometimes, like you, very comfortable with spoon fed information.

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firoz ali,

have you read all my post? i don't think so. if you like spoon feeding let me stress again on my stand on events that befall on any makhluk, be it in the past or in the future, its all due to qada' and qadar and all in known to Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala and all has been written in lawh mahfuz.

i don't know anything about battle of ohad. can you briefly tell me about battle of ohad and who ran away from battle. i sometimes, like you, very comfortable with spoon fed information.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Salaam Alaiqum,

Yaa Ali Madad

First u reply to my question plz or u haverealised that ur own argument come back on yr face , so now instead of replying properly u r resorting to cheap talks

Allah Hafiz

Yaa Ali madad

Hussainiyet Zinda bad

Yazeediyet Murdabad

Firoz Ali

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go2najaf,

i'm sorry for realizing that this post is meant for me.

ayat 5:55

i think this transaltion is more accurate than the one that you provided.

Verily, your Wali (Protector or Helper) is Allah, His Messenger, and the believers, - those who perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat, and they bow down (submit themselves with obedience to Allah in prayer).

the last phrase wa hum raki'un which means and they bow down. its not when they are in ruku. the translation you provided misleading.

ayat 51 to 54 summarily warned the believers not to make jews and the christians their friends and confidants. likewise they should be on their guard against the evil designs of the hypocrites, the disbelievers and the like.

ayat 55 telling the faithful that their wali is Allah, Rasulul'lah and believers. the ayat tell them who are the believers and they are those who perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat, and they bow down (submit themselves with obedience to Allah in prayer).

this ayat has nothing to do imam ali paying zakat or ranking. lol..

as for ayat 12 surah yasin 36:12

Verily, We give life to the dead, and We record that which they send before (them), and their traces [their footsteps and walking on the earth with their legs to the mosques for the five compulsory congregational prayers, Jihad (holy fighting in Allah's Cause) and all other good and evil they did, and that which they leave behind], and all things We have recorded with numbers (as a record) in a Clear Book.

you take the word imam in fi imamim mubin as imam ali. well this is all about the "book of evidence" or 'register of all things you do while you live in this world which hides nothing. lol.. again its nothing to do imam ali (ra) or imamah or ranking.

since you are so concern about ranking 1,2,3,5,6,7,8,9.... 10,000,000,000,000.......

let me ask you a question. has rasulul'lah (pbuh) ever said i'm no1, ali no2, so and so no3, so and so no 4 OR imam ali (ra) ever declared that he is no 2 and so and so no 3 and so and so no4..

all we have seen is that rasulul'lah (pbuh) make an anology of his companions. for imam ali (ra) example ali to him as harun to musa or the one you quote I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate. as for imam (ra) abu bakar if he is to choose his ummah and abu bakr he will choose abu bakr and so on, so on.. the anolgy made was not intended for ranking purposes but to show how he values his companions, to show that these are no ordinary human. so we must not look his companions as a contender for certain championship for example in singing competition who is the best singer. its far from that.

well i need to stop first for solat maghrib. there will be additional comments to your post and insya' Allah will get it done after solat isya' and takbir.

by the way wishing all muslim brothers and sister a happy 'id adha

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Salaam Alaiqum,

Yaa Ali Madad

First u reply to my question plz or u haverealised that ur own argument come back on yr face , so now instead of replying properly u r resorting to cheap talks

Allah Hafiz

Yaa Ali madad

Hussainiyet Zinda bad

Yazeediyet Murdabad

Firoz Ali

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Salaam Alaiqum,

Yaa Ali Madad

I think i better SIMPLIFY my question for u ,

Was the act of running away from the battle of Ohad (leaving the prophet behind)an act of cowardness or qada and qadar??

Yaa Ali Madad

Allah Hafiz

Firoz Ali

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i think this transaltion is more accurate than the one that you provided.

Verily, your Wali (Protector or Helper) is Allah, His Messenger, and the believers, - those who perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat, and they bow down (submit themselves with obedience to Allah in prayer).

the last phrase wa hum raki'un which means and they bow down. its not  when they are in ruku. the translation you provided misleading.

ayat 51 to 54 summarily warned  the believers not to make jews and the christians their friends and confidants. likewise they should be on their guard against the evil designs of the hypocrites, the disbelievers and the like.

ayat 55 telling the faithful that their wali is Allah, Rasulul'lah and believers. the ayat tell them who are the believers and they are  those who perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat, and they bow down (submit themselves with obedience to Allah in prayer).

this ayat has nothing to do imam ali paying zakat or ranking. lol..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

(salam)

I had a similar question and I also thought that "wa hum rakae3un" means "AND they prostrate". I asked this from the Al-Seestani organization in london and this is what they replied:

In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful

"Assalamu Alaykum

From what you say we can not translate it as "and those who give zakat

AND those who bow", as this means everyone from the Muslims who pray is

"Wali" of the other Muslims and that will lead to everyone is leading

"wali" everybody which is not possible, therefore "wa" has to be

translated as (while) indicating that it was meant Imam Ali as in many

Sunni "tafseer" books as well as Shia.

WA Alaykum Assalam "

As for the word wali.. the shia3 ALWAYS translate it as "leader" or a "guide" so the translating "and those who give zakat while in ruku (state of prostration)" makes sense... HOWEVER.. the sunni translate it as "friend or helper or protector" and therefore the translation "and they give zakat AND they bow" makes sense... so it all boils down to what the word 'wali' means. Therefore.. if you seek clarification.. the proofs given in the link below.

Letter_40

Wassalaam

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I had a similar question and I also thought that "wa hum rakae3un" means "AND they prostrate". I asked this from the Al-Seestani organization in london and this is what they replied:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ya Allah, i seek Your guidance in writing this part so that i might not be astray and may not lead others to it. amin

i have read the article but it still does not convince me that the essence of this ayat refering to imam ali (ra) giving zakat while ruku'. i agree that wa in wahum raki'un may not be necessarily mean 'and'. wa in this context is referred to as waw 'ataf. i also agree that not everybody that perform solat and pay zakat are wali to other believer. the wa hum raki'un further describes those who perform solat and pay zakat. raki'un in this may context may not necessarily means the act of ruku' in solat but can also means submission and obedience. thats how i view this ayat. wal'lahu a'lam.

you may disagree with, it doesn't matter. i like your approach and i like to discuss with people that value reasoning, understanding and cool head.

salam

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I had a similar question and I also thought that "wa hum rakae3un" means "AND they prostrate". I asked this from the Al-Seestani organization in london and this is what they replied:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ya Allah, i seek Your guidance in writing this part so that i might not be astray and may not lead others to it. amin

i have read the article but it still does not convince me that the essence of this ayat refering to imam ali (ra) giving zakat while ruku'. i agree that wa in wahum raki'un may not be necessarily mean 'and'. wa in this context is referred to as waw 'ataf. i also agree that not everybody that perform solat and pay zakat are wali to other believer. the wa hum raki'un further describes those who perform solat and pay zakat. raki'un in this may context may not necessarily means the act of ruku' in solat but can also means submission and obedience. thats how i view this ayat. wal'lahu a'lam.

you may disagree with, it doesn't matter. i like your approach and i like to discuss people with reasoning, understanding and cool head.

salam

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Salaam Alaiqum,

Yaa Ali Madad

I think i better SIMPLIFY  my question for u ,

Was the act of running away from the battle of Ohad (leaving the prophet behind)an act of cowardness or qada and qadar??

Yaa Ali Madad

Allah Hafiz

Firoz Ali

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

you don't have to simplify your question for i know what you want. since it is very hard for you to understand my writing i just put in very simple word. yes it is qada' and qadar. that answer your question?

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(salam)

i think the whole thing about this arguement is STUPID. had you all, so called muslim go back to the basic tenets of islam, you will not argue over this stupid issue. you all has forgotten the faith on qadar and qada'.  had Allah azza wa jalla wanted ali  (ra) to be the khalifah after our Rasullu'Lah  (pbuh) then it will be him.  we as who has faith in qadar and qada' has to accept that it is already written in lawh mahfuz that abu bakar  (ra) was to be the khalifah. period.

so if anyone of you here dare enough to challange what has happened then i suggest you challenge Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala for why He makes abu bakar the 1st khalifah.

Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala has said in surah yasin ayat 82

Verily, when He intends a thing, His Command is, "be", and it is!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Allow me to say bro, that u are mixed up with the Qatha Qadar issue. Just because something took place, just because Allah had it the Allow7 el Ma7fouz, does not mean Allah wanted it to happen. That is not to say that things go against his will, no. Allah let things happen, he just let things take it is course. So, as far as I see, the qatha qadar argument can niether serve Ali ot Abu Baker.

My argument is, forget about khelafa, from "dunia" side, and concentrate on who are the Imams of our deen. I thing that Sahaba, with all due rspest, do not offer the best option to be our Marji3iya, simply because they saw things diffrently.

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(bismillah) & (salam)

To answer the question its best to prove from the Quran who was the real Khalif !

(i) Verse 2.30

SHAKIR: And when your Lord said to the angels, I am going to place in the earth a khalif, they said: What! wilt Thou place in it such as shall make mischief in it and shed blood, and we celebrate Thy praise and extol Thy holiness? He said: Surely I know what you do not know.

(Only Allah s.w.t choses a khalif on earth)

(ii) Verse 20:30

YUSUFALI: "And give me a Minister from my family,

PICKTHAL: Appoint for me a henchman from my folk,

SHAKIR: And give to me an aider from my family"

(Nabi Musa (as) requests from Allah s.w.t to make a wizier(successor) from his family)

(iii) Verse 20:36

YUSUFALI: (Allah) said: "Granted is thy prayer, O Moses!"

PICKTHAL: He said: Thou art granted thy request, O Moses.

SHAKIR: He said: You are indeed granted your petition, O Musa

(Allah s.w.t the most high grants Nabi Musa's (as) wish, therefore, a prophet CANNOT chose a leader after him decision only comes from Allah s.w.t. )

(iv) Verse 4:59

SHAKIR: O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end.

(Leads to next verse, remember "those in authority among you")

(v) Verse 76:24

SHAKIR: Therefore wait patiently for the command of your Lord, and obey not from among them a sinner or an ungrateful one.

(As stated don't obey a sinner/disbeliever and therefore, only a MASOOM should be followed. After the Nabi Muhammad (pbuh) the only masoom was Hazrat Ali ibn Abi Talib (as) , whilst the Khalifs of Ahlus Sunnah admit to not being masoom)

(vi) Verse 2:124

YUSUFALI: And remember that Abraham was tried by his Lord with certain commands, which he fulfilled: He said: "I will make thee an Imam to the Nations." He pleaded: "And also (Imams) from my offspring!" He answered: "But My Promise is not within the reach of evil-doers."

PICKTHAL: And (remember) when his Lord tried Abraham with (His) commands, and he fulfilled them, He said: Lo! I have appointed thee a leader for mankind. (Abraham) said: And of my offspring (will there be leaders)? He said: My covenant includeth not wrong-doers.

SHAKIR: And when his Lord tried Ibrahim with certain words, he fulfilled them. He said: Surely I will make you an Imam of men. Ibrahim said: And of my offspring? My covenant does not include the unjust, said He.

(Again reiterates the fact that God does not allow man to follow a sinner or unjust person and only appoints leaders that are sinless, suhanAllah)

So to answer the original question whether it should be Ali or the 1st Khalif of the Sunnis I think we can safely say Imam Ali (as) without any doubt!!

Wasalaam

Haider

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And i ask you the same question as I asked Last time do you believe that Imam Ali is a truthful compainion if yes then the sermon of shaqshaqiya will help you clear your doubts if no then change the verse of the quran if you dare "surley your guardian is Allah and his apostle and his oldest comapanion"(astaghfurullah)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

you know my stand on the first part of your question as i have answered you earlier. i still stand by that.

as to regard your challange - which surah that this ayat "surley your guardian is Allah and his apostle and his oldest comapanion". if it is still suratu'l maidah ayat 55 then please refer to my answer to zafaryab.

i almost agreewith everything you said but Imam Ali  was forced to give alleagance to abu bakr and he gave alleagance 6 months after abu bakr became the khalif

the above quote is from your post to issac.

come to think about how shia potrayed imam ali (ra), regarding him as no 2 after rasulul'lah, the bravest, the most knowlegable, the best of the best, second to none except to Allah and rasul, it very difficult to believe that he was forced to gave bay'at. a man known as sword of Allah who fear no one except Allah and Rasul can be intimidated by those whom you regard as worthless and coward. how can imam ali (ra) who is willing to face anyone that go against Allah and Rasul becomes so small when facing imam abu bakar & co. the way present your arguement really smearing imam ali's (ra) great image. the excuse you use to justify the accepting of bay'at will work if you were to cultivate and to seed hatred to imam abu bakar (ra) and the rest to kindergarten kids. this is not working for me.

by the way which part of australia do you live?

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Now my question is why would you settle for second/3/4/5 etc best.

Remeber Ali  (as) being the best Judge was not even asked for his views about choosing the caliphate but bare in mind i do not believe Abu Bakr  (ra) to be bad or anything because he is siddique. Im not really shia nor sunni Allah swt knows what I am.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hi isaac,

imam ali may be the best judge but is that the criteria to rank him as no 2? i'm not against your arguement but this ranking bussiness was not even done by rasulul'lah (pbuh) and imam ali himself never claim that he is no 2. please refer my comments on the same issue in the post to go2najaf.

me to Allah swt knows what I am.

salam

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hi isaac,

imam ali may be the best judge but is that the criteria to rank him as no 2? i'm not against your arguement but this ranking bussiness was not even done by rasulul'lah (pbuh) and imam ali himself never claim that he is no 2. please refer my comments on the same issue in the post to go2najaf.

me to Allah swt knows what I am.

salam

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Aselam aleykum my brother metabox its nice to hear from open minded people. The point I was trying to raise is why on earth, if everyone took Ali (as) as the best Judge (after prophet pbuh) would you not even include him to decide who the next RULER of the WHOLE UMMAH was going to be? imagine a man who had been spiritually blessed by the prophet (pbuh) himself to never judge a case wrong, and if anyone doesnt believe this I have hadiths if you dont already know them please do ask. I always think about this, but im in no way having a bash at you I just want to know why Abu Bakr and omar etc (ra) didnt invite Ali (as) to contribute. But having said this we shouldnt forget Ali (as) was the youngest and sometimes if we all can admit it we tend to look down on people younger than us, even though Allah swt does not have limit to his power. My best friend, spiritual teacher and shaykh is 20 which is younger than I am,Ive seen with my own eyes people wanting help from him, not on fique issues but spiritual the most important and there in their late forties and this is normal for him, subhanalah he is also adescendant sayid. I also agree with you about the fact that Ali (as) was and could never be FORCED, Im not even shia and Im not prepared to accept one of the greatest men ever could be FORCED. We are talking about a man who fought a whole army by himself and was successful, shielding himself with a IRON gate he ripped out of the ground which was meters and meters long . Please lets reflect on these issues. And alll my proof iare in hadiths too I can also use shia proofs no problem as I have Peak of eloquence which is subhanalah the greatest sayings after the prophets (pbuh) sayings, no other companion can even come close to that kind of wisdom. Sunni brothers please read the sayings of Imam Ali (as) it wil inshalah change your adab and the condition of your heart big time. selams my brothers and sis

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imam ali may be the best judge but is that the criteria to rank him as no 2? i'm not against your arguement but this ranking bussiness was not even done by rasulul'lah  and imam ali himself never claim that he is no 2. please refer my comments on the same issue in the post to go2najaf.

sorry i realized i havent answered your second question which is highlighted above. In sunni tradition prophet mohammad (pbuh) is the highest ranking created being (ask for proof inshalah) most scholars agree upon this. But what did the prophet (pbuh) himself say with regards to his rank? he said "dont say im higher in rank than any other prophet" Subhanalah thats how modest he was, even after him (pbuh) saying this, we continue to exalt him (pbuh) as the highest man.So there does exist a ranking system in islam, another example is sayidina Fatimah az Zahra (as) being the Highest women (leader) of the women of Jannah. And in relation to Ali (as) the prophet (pbuh) said "whomever im the leader of, Ali (as) is the leader of too" then uthman (ra) who was over double the age of Ali (as) congratulated him saying you are now my leader. Now for sunni brothers its hard to think that Abu Bakr (ra) can make a mistake and can sinn etc. But the male no matter who he is will always sin because we have more potential to do evil tahn women. You dont hear of a Sandra Hitler or Maria Stalin killing people. Even PROPHETS HAVE KILLED WRONGLY. Thats why Allah swt didnt allow the prophets (pbuh) male children to grow up to protect the honour of our prophet (pbuh) , hence the prophet (pbuh) wanted his progeny to run through the leader of women of Jannah Fatimah (as) and Ali (as) who was the only one worthy of her, her "match" according to rasuallah (pbuh). Which is understandable because I would want the BEST for my daughter wouldnt you? And imagine if you had power and could marry her literally to any unmarried man. why would you settle for second ...best etc you wont would you. The problem was at that time Ali (as) was simply too young in comparison to the three caliphas (ra) they all could of been his dad easliy. hope this answers your question please do not hesitate to ask me anything. I understand however the diffficulty of this subject for people who take knowledge from the sunni tradition (understanding) only because most (because I know some who dont) agree the order of caliphate. I say accept because how many books (sunni) can you find about the appointment of the 4 "rightly guided calphas"? please open your heart to new ideas, Imam ali (as) said "take knowledge even from the hypocrite because the knowldge will finally rest in the chest of its rightful owner".

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(bismillah) (salam)

Imam Ali's leader ship does not only come in strenth but it also comes in sprirutual faith and mind imagine imam ali fighting abu bakr and omar what will happen to Imam Ali after all abu bakr was a companion and if he fought them then no one will exept him to be a leader if Imam Ali fought The khalifs for khilafa then he would not be any diffrent then moawiyah and others and Imam Ali said it himself that he does not want the khilafa nor does he like it but he is there to create justice and guide people and if he fought abu bakr we will have more sects and more disunity and even though Imam Ali was brave how many people can he go against When imam ali said i will fight for my right if you bring 40 people in my house with their heads shaved the next day only 3 people came so 3 poeple verses the whole islamic nation who do you think will win

so Imam Ali decided to be patient and he found out it was for the islamic good that he does not fight and he can guide the muslims by being a minister and he said this in nahjul balagha"i being a minister is better then i be a cheif" the reason why he said this is because after saqifa took place imam ali was not wanted by the people so he who is not wanted by the people cannot be lead the people this still does not prove that the khilafa belonged rightly to abu bakr Imam ali did what was rightful to save islamic unity so he decided not to fight but he did not decide to give alleagance until he was forced.

you see the imams dont think about now they think about the future also you see imam hasan made a treaty with mooawiah because it will save islams life

while if imam hussain gave allegance to yazid it will kill islam so he fought till death

so there is a reason for every single action no matter how small for the imam and every word that is spoken has its reason

______________________________

as for what brother metabox says that there is no ranking in islam i think you believe in the koran and here are some verses you can check and see for your self if there is ranking in islam or not

2:53

3:163

4:96

6:83,132,165

8:4

12:76

17:21

20:75

40:15

43:32

46:19

58:11

(salam)

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you don't have to simplify your question for i know what you want. since it is very hard for you to understand my writing i just put in very simple word. yes it is qada' and qadar. that answer your question?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Salaam Alaiqum,

Yaa Ali madad

If running away from battle of ohad was Qada and qadar then why does Almight Allah SWT scolds those cowards ??see wat Almight Allah says in the Holy Quran

Behold! You were climbing up the high ground, without even casting a side glance at any one, and the Apostle in your rear was calling you back. there did God give you one distress after another by way of requital, to teach you not to grieve for the booty that had escaped you, and for (the ill) that had befallen you. For God is well aware of All that you do. (Chapter 3; verse 153)

This verse will remain in the holy quran till qayamat !!!

Allah Hafiz

Yaa Ali Madad

Firoz Ali

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The point I was trying to raise is why on earth, if everyone took Ali (as) as the best Judge (after prophet  pbuh) would you not even include him to decide who the next RULER of the WHOLE UMMAH was going to be?

i take note of your point. definitely givien all circumtances to my favour, i would like all the best think tank to be around when making a crucial decision. no doubt about it. the real thing, what i mean is all events, that may happened at that time is not known to us. the discussion here is based on history and sayings of sahabah and most importantly hadith nabi (pbuh). we discuss to the best of our knowledge which have limitation. there are so many questions to ask and so many expalanations we take. with every new question and explanation that comes out will bear another new question and explanation and so on.

going back to my first post in this thread, i have put my opinion that this sort of discussion is useless. we are trying to explore things that is beyond of knowledge i.e qada' and qadar that has taken place according to what Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala. we are trying to reason out why Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala make that event happened with our limited knowledge. we wouldn't know whether the situation that we have now could be better or worse if imam ali (ra) was made as the successor. all this are beyond our knowledge. as i have said earlier, what ever event that befall there could be as a blessing or lesson to be learned. in the dispute of either imam abu bakar (ra) or imam ali (ra) that was suppossed to be the successor, there could be lesson to be learn for example we need to call every ineterested party in a certain case for discussion in order to avoid any dispute later on. for the shia there could be a blessing that without this event took place, shia may not exist. so let us accept what has happened and something that can't be change as takdir or fate from Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala.

another thing is, this discuss may be meaningful if only imam abu bakar, imam ali, imam umar, imam uthman and the rest of sahabah are still alive as the outcome of the discussion can be taken as the final decision and if the outcome is in favour of imam abu bakar (ra) , let him stay as the amirul mukminin and if it is the favaour of imam ali (ra) let us install him as the amirul mukminin.

having said all that i would like to rest from this sort of discussion, as i have said earlier is useless because we can't change what has happened. further more i have to spend a lot of time within next 2 weeks to complete a computer system for my client. i need to keep my promise to my client.

if anyone would like to write or give me something you may write to my email, metabox@graffiti.net. insya' Allah i will reply every message that i got.

ranking of sahabah

Note: this is also meant for go2najaf

i agree with you that to some extend did exist. as what you and go2najar mentioned there is no one higher than Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala and far as no makhluk is higer than nabi muhammad (pbuh) . what i mean by ranking is infact ranking or sahabah in 1,2,3,4 .. position as for example in f1 racing where schumi is no 1 and so on. i agree that rasulul'lah (pbuh) did say so and so is the best in this and that but it is not to point out who is no 1, who is no 2 who is no 3 and so on. let us look into this examples

1. Abdullah reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: If I were to choose from my Umma anyone as my bosom friend, I would have chosen Abu Bakr. muslim 31:5872

2. Muhammad b. Jubair b. Mut'im reported on the authority of his father that a woman asked Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) about something but lit, told her to come to him on some other occasion, whereupon she said: What in your opinion (should I do) if I come to you but do not find you, and it seemed as if she meant that he might die. Thereupon he said: If you do not find me, then come to Abu Bakr. muslim 31:5878

in two examples nabi (pbuh) rank imam abu bakar (ra) as no 1 but he didn't mention who is the next so on.

take for another example in the case of choosing imam for solat jema'ah during his last days, nabi (pbuh) has choosen imam bakar (ra) and in one event where imam abu bakar (ra) was late and sahabah suggested another person but nabi (ra) still wanted imam abu bakar (ra) to lead and waited for him.

in this case nabi (pbuh) consider imam abu bakar (ra) as no 1.

as we can see there is no clear cut ranking system as what we understand or practice in a competetion.

having said that i also would like to take rest on this issue and i know my view may not be the best and conclusive. as of now i consider that whatever nabi (pbuh) putting some sahabah over another was a way to show how he value that particular sahabah and not to create a ranking in way that we understand now.

i also welcome any comments and suggestions through my email.

if we all can admit it we tend to look down on people younger than us, even though Allah swt does not have limit to his power.

i won't admit it. i learn to improve my quran recitation from my 23 years son. he is an hafiz since he was 15 years old. in solat jema'ah, he is the imam be it at home or at madrasah. he is my reference and he is the jewel in my house. he is a gift from Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala for me and my family. hopefully my daughter will follow soon.

i seek Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala forgiven for any error in whatever i wrote and seek forgiveness if i ever offfended anyone here.

(salam)

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Salaam Alaiqum,

If running away from battle of ohad was Qada and qadar then why does Almight Allah SWT scolds those cowards ??see wat Almight Allah says in the Holy Quran

Behold! You were climbing up the high ground, without even casting a side glance at any one, and the Apostle in your rear was calling you back. there did God give you one distress after another by way of requital, to teach you not to grieve for the booty that had escaped you, and for (the ill) that had befallen you. For God is well aware of All that you do. (Chapter 3; verse 153) 

This verse will remain in the holy quran till qayamat !!!

Allah Hafiz

Firoz Ali

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

dear firoz

i have sumitted my last post but since i just saw your response, i think i have to reply and its going to my last reply in this thread.

there is no doubt that Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala will put His wrath on those who run away from the battle for his cowardice. this is all already written in lawh mahfuz and it is qada' and qadar for him.

with due respect to you, once again please read all my post in this thread in oerder for to know my stand on qada' and qadar. by no means this discussion will be exausted unless one is willing to accept the fact that whatever we do in the past and in future is all known to Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala and its all written in lawh mahfuz.

(salam)

Edited by metabox
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I think you need to search on the allegation that Prophet (pbuh)&HP "CHOSE" Abu Bakr to lead the prayer... so much so that Prophet (pbuh)&HP had himself CARRIED to the mosque from his sickbed, to take over leadership of the prayers, so that it was CLEAR he did not want Abu Bakr leading the prayers.

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dear firoz

i have sumitted my last post but since i just saw your response, i think i have to reply and its going to my last reply in this thread.

there is no doubt that Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala will put His wrath on those who run away from the battle for his cowardice. this is all already written in lawh mahfuz and it is qada' and qadar for him.

with due respect to you, once again please read all my post in this thread in oerder for to know my stand on qada' and qadar. by no means this discussion will be exausted unless one is willing to accept the fact that whatever we do in the past and in future is all known to Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala and its all written in lawh mahfuz.

(salam)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Salaam Alaqium,

Yaa Ali Madad

Now refering to yr very first post on this topic-- and comparing the two incidents

U give us this advice

abu bakr becoming khalif according to u was qadar and qadar and can not be changed , so no point in finding out whether it was wrong or right-- just accept the situation as it is-- correct me if i m wrong in my undestanding plz

now when we take one more incident of history , which i mentoned -- (running away from battle of ohad) which u take it as qada and qadar-- but here we see a total diferent picture .Allah SWT does not tell us that this running away from the battle of Ohad was qada and qadar , hence just take the incident as it is and "period" NO FURTHER DISCUSSION.

But here Almighty Allah SWT does not put a "period" to the incident but scolds those who ran away from the battle and goes further and puts it as a verse in the holy Quran -- so till qayamat ppl will recite and remember this incident.

Allah Hafiz

Yaa Ali Madad

Hussainiyat Zindabad

Yazeediyat Murdabad

Firoz Ali

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