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In the Name of God بسم الله

Menses

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(bismillah) (salam) Sometimes as women we feel distanced from Allah during this time of the month because we are unable to pray, fast; and reading Quran earns us less reward. I stumbled across th

salam. With regards to the sermon of Imam Ali (as) - One mans intellent is compared to that of two women, however this sermon tells us tht men are not emotionaly strong! When a man passes by two wome

(bismillah) (salam) Sisers,it's pathetic to know the exact number of pig-headed "so called brothers" jumping into this forum.Despite of the fact that it is sisters forum.What brings them out here,t

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(bismillah)

Assalam alaykum,

JizaakiAllah kheir sis wilayah... I cannot believe what I have just read. It actually goes against every single preconceived notion I had about about menses.

Although I know/always knew that Allah (swt) judges both men and women equally... part of me worried about one thing especially: I often think of death, and sometimes the thought comes into my head that I may actually die in the state of menses and because blood is najis (so much so that u do not enter a masjid in that time) it made sense to me that consequently I would not go anywhere near Paradise :cry: When I would be in this state, I would even do a dua to Allah (swt) that I not "die" because of this stupid belief I had..

May Allah (swt) bless you sis wilayah with all the good that can come in this World and the HereAfter. What you have posted means more to me than you will ever realise.

I have said this before but will say it once again, alhamdullilahi rabbil 3alameen, that I am a Woman of Islam.

WaSalam

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(salam)

there's a lot of misinformation and myths out there. menstrual blood is najis but so is semen. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) says in the Quran that menses is a discomfort. but it's a natural process that occurs because women are the only ones charged with childbirth.

we are not like some jews who keep away from their ways even days after she has taken a ritual bath and force her to sleep in separate beds.

sub7anallah.

Allah is al Hakeem.

(bismillah)

[2:222 SHAKIR] And they ask you about menstruation. Say: It is a discomfort; therefore keep aloof from the women during the menstrual discharge and do not go near them until they have become clean; then when they have cleansed themselves, go in to them as Allah has commanded you; surely Allah loves those who turn much (to Him), and He loves those who purify themselves.

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O' ye peoples! Women are deficient in Faith, deficient in shares and deficient in intelligence. As regards the deficiency in their Faith, it is their abstention from prayers and fasting during their menstrual period.

Amir-ul-Momineen, Nahjul-Balagha, sermon #80

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O' ye peoples! Women are deficient in Faith, deficient in shares and deficient in intelligence. As regards the deficiency in their Faith, it is their abstention from prayers and fasting during their menstrual period.

This topic is a little deep; and also very sensitive. I think it has been discussed earlier on the forum ..might wanna use the search.

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Just going to post the full sermon

After the Battle of Jamal,[1] Concerning Women and Their Short comings.

O' ye peoples! Women are deficient in Faith, deficient in shares and deficient in intelligence. As regards the deficiency in their Faith, it is their abstention from prayers and fasting during their menstrual period. As regards deficiency in their intelligence it is because the evidence of two women is equal to that of one man. As for the deficiency of their shares that is because of their share in inheritance being half of men. So beware of the evils of women. Be on your guard even from those of them who are (reportedly) good. Do not obey them even in good things so that they may not attract you to evils.

Footnotes by translator:

[1].Amir al-mu'minin delivered this sermon after the devastation created by the Battle of Jamal. Since the devastation resulting from this battle was the outcome of blindly following a woman's command, in this sermon he has described women's physical defects and their causes and effects. Thus their first weakness is that for a few days in every month they have to abstain from prayer and fasting, and this abstention from worship is a proof of their deficiency in Faith. Although the real meaning of `iman (belief) is heart-felt testimony and inner conviction yet metaphorically it also applies to action and character. Since actions are the reflection of Belief they are also regarded as part of Belief. Thus, it is related from Imam `Ali ibn Musa ar-Rida (p.b.u.t.) that:

`iman (belief) is testimony at heart, admission by the tongue and action by the limbs.

The second weakness is that their natural propensities do not admit of full performance of their intelligence. Therefore, nature has given them the power of intelligence only in accordance with the scope of their activities which can guide them in pregnancy, delivery, child nursing, child care and house-hold affairs. On the basis of this weakness of mind and intelligence their evidence has not been accorded the status of man's evidence, as Allah says:

. . . then call to witness two witnesses from among your men and if there not be two men then (take) a man and two women, of those ye approve of the witnesses, so that should one of the two (women) forget the (second) one of the two may remind the other... (Qur'an, 2:282)

The third weakness is that their share in inheritance is half of man's share in inheritance as the Qur'an says:

Allah enjoineth you about your children. The male shall have the equal of the shares of two females...(4:11)

This shows woman's weakness because the reason for her share in inheritance being half is that the liability of her maintenance rests on man. When man's position is that of a maintainer and care taker the status of the weaker sex who is in need of maintenance and care-taking is evident.

After describing their natural weakness, Amir al-mu'minin points out the mischief of blindly following them and wrongly obeying them. He says that not to say of bad things but even if they say in regard to some good things it should not be done in a way that these should feel as if it is being done in pursuance of their wish, but rather in a way that they should realise that the good act has been performed because of its being good and that their pleasure or wish has nothing to do with it. If they have even the doubt that their pleasures has been kept in view in it they would slowly increase in their demands and would wish that they should be obeyed in all matters however evil, the inevitable consequence whereof will be destruction and ruin. ash-Shaykh Muhammad `Abduh writes about this view of Amir al-mu'minin as under:

Amir al-mu'minin has said a thing which is corroborated by experiences of centuries.

If someone can explain it, it'll be cool.

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salam.

With regards to the sermon of Imam Ali (as) - One mans intellent is compared to that of two women, however this sermon tells us tht men are not emotionaly strong! When a man passes by two women he easily loses his emotional senses and cannot control himself - whereas women can easily walk past many men and not be effected by them!

So in fact this sermon is a warning to men that do not lose yoursevles in the presence of women and thus both your intellect and emotions fail and you act acording to your low desires!!!!

These sermons have deep meanings, you cannot take everything for face value, we need to delve deeper into the meanings to get the full explanation and understanding from it!

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(bismillah)

For example, the Queen of Sheba, Bilqis, as analyzed by Dr. Amina Wadud in her book about Quran & Women:

"The Quran uses no terms that imply that the position of ruler is inappropriate for a woman. On the contrary, the Qur'anic story of bilqis celebrates both her political and religious practices."

[shakir 27:22] And he tarried not long, then said: I comprehend that which you do not comprehend and I have brought to you a sure information from Sheba.

[shakir 27:23] Surely I found a woman ruling over them, and she has been given abundance and she has a mighty throne:

[shakir 27:24] I found her and her people adoring the sun instead of Allah, and the Shaitan has made their deeds fair-seeming to them and thus turned them from the way, so they do not go aright

[shakir 27:28] Take this my letter and hand it over to them, then turn away from them and see what (answer) they return.

[shakir 27:29] She said: O chief! surely an honorable letter has been delivered to me

[shakir 27:30] Surely it is from Sulaiman, and surely it is in the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful;

[shakir 27:31] Saying: exalt not yourselves against me and come to me in submission.

[shakir 27:32] She said: O chiefs! give me advice respecting my affair: I never decide an affair until you are in my presence.

[shakir 27:33] They said: We are possessors of strength and possessors of mighty prowess, and the command is yours, therefore see what you will command.

[shakir 27:34] She said: Surely the kings, when they enter a town, ruin it and make the noblest of its people to be low, and thus they (always) do;

[shakir 27:35] And surely I am going to send a present to them, and shall wait to see what (answer) do the messengers bring back.

Bilqis rejected the advise of her male advisers and through shrewd political decisions, sent him a gift after she recognized Sulaiman's (as) honorable letter.

[shakir 27:41] He said: Alter her throne for her, we will see whether she follows the right way or is of those who do not go aright.

[shakir 27:42] So when she came, it was said: Is your throne like this? She said: It is as it were the same, and we were given the knowledge before it, and we were submissive.

In the end, she submits to Allah (swt).

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^offtopic.gif

This thread isnt about whether or not the women are allowed to become leaders, but rather about their menses!

I found the ahadeeths contradicting each other, so I put it here for discussion!

I am not wrapping up women in veil, and locking them up in the closet!

So, please brother and sisters, be back on the topic!

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(bismillah) (salam)

It is funny the manner in which posts and hadeeths like these are answered. Pull the "women is deficient", and "woman is a scorpion" hadeeths out of the hat. How much more have you comprehended of Nahjul Balaghah, or is it as the Quran says: 'you believe in some of the book and belie some'?

Sheikh Mohammad Tustari: Tafseer Nahjul Balaghah.

"His words (as), appear to generalize women but the reasons behind it are a result of ayesha's action, and Ibn Abi Hadeed has also said, "The entire section (of this speech) points to ayesha".

summary of his elaboration:

"deficient in faith": Allah in the Holy Quran states in more than one place, that both men and women, will be equally recompensed and rewarded.

•And Allah would never let your faith go in vain; surely, Allah is compassionate and Merciful to the people.

•and that Allah will not waste the reward of the believers.

•So their Lord accepted their prayer: That I will not waste the work of a worker among you, whether male or female, the one of you being from the other;

•And (as for) those who hold fast by the Book and keep up prayer, surely We do not waste the reward of the right doers.

It is possible that 'faith' here refers to salat as per verse 2:143: And thus We have made you a medium (just) nation that you may be the bearers of witness to the people and (that) the Apostle may be a bearer of witness to you; and We did not make that which you would have to be the qiblah but that We might distinguish him who follows the Apostle from him who turns back upon his heels, and this was surely hard except for those whom Allah has guided aright; and Allah was not going to make your faith to be fruitless; most surely Allah is Affectionate, Merciful to the people.

This verse was revealed after the change of direction of the qiblah from al-Quds to Mecca. People questioned whether their prayers that were made facing al-Quds were fruitless, Allah answered saying that He (swt), "Was not going to make your faith (your salat made towards alQuds) to be fruitless".

Hence, in light of this tafseer, the 'faith' that the Imam was probably referring to was Salat, which in relation to women is 'deficient', not in the sense of being inferior, but that atleast 5 days a month they sit from prayers, so too after childbirth. there is no obligation to make it up, although it is recommended (mustahab) to do so. It is also recommended that a woman performs wudhu, sits and faces the qiblah and engages in Dhikr.

'deficient in intelligence', again this is not the inferiority of the female's intellectual faculties. If such was the case, this would negate the hadeeths making it obligatory upon both men and women to seek knowledge. again this probably touches on the fact that women, just before menses, during it and when pregnant, experience a phenomenal hormonal change which bears on her in various ways. And we see this elucidated upon from a Shariah point of view in that it doesnt allow for women to be divorced while menstruating nor while pregnant.

'deficient in Shares' - The woman receiving half the share of a man does not mean that she is a lesser person before Allah. To believe this, demeans the very Justice of Allah. Women were not created such by choice, it was a choice made by Allah at the time they were conceived. therefore, how can Allah the Just, punish or impose upon them 'labels' just because she is a female. There is wisdom to all of God's decrees and the reason he decrees women's shares half of men is as the imam said after being asked:

"For what reason is the poor fragile woman given one share and the man takes two shares? The Imam said, "Jihad is not imposed on a woman, nor expenditure, nor blood; they are decrees applicable to men only".

Edited by wilayah
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This thread isnt about whether or not the women are allowed to become leaders, but rather about their menses!

I found the ahadeeths contradicting each other, so I put it here for discussion!

I am not wrapping up women in veil, and locking them up in the closet!

So, please brother and sisters, be back on the topic!

Right.

t is funny the manner in which posts and hadeeths like these are answered. Pull the "women is deficient", and "woman is a scorpion" hadeeths out of the hat. How much more have you comprehended of Nahjul Balaghah, or is it as the Quran says: 'you believe in some of the book and belie some'?

What I find funny is that why is it then whenever such a hadeeth / sermon is mentioned women automatically assume that the poster has something against women ??

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(salam)

Nice one sis wilayah. :D

Islam has really given women their rights and the respect they deserve.

What the Hindus do their women is horrible.During their menses,either they are locked up in one room and not allowed to go around the house or worse still,they just throw them out of the house and im not exaggerating.I have not myself seen this happen coz here not many hindus practise all this but I have heard from hindu girls that this does happen.

Wasalaam.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

:wub:

nice post sis wilayah

it's sad when people see it as some form of "dirtiness"

Allah (swt) created it as a necessary part of the reproductive system, i.e. the process of creation. And what more miraculous, and more beautiful, than creation, and creation of humanity out of all things.

There's a hadith of sitna zahra' (as) never got menses.

ws

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(bismillah)

(salam)

:wub:

nice post sis wilayah

it's sad when people see it as some form of "dirtiness"

Allah (swt) created it as a necessary part of the reproductive system, i.e. the process of creation. And what more miraculous, and more beautiful, than creation, and creation of humanity out of all things.

There's a hadith of sitna zahra' (as) never got menses.

ws

(salam)

awww lekkkkkkkkk shoooooooooo, Ya Aba...ur shoo shweettttt and shmarrt :D

interesting stuff Wilayah :)

Wasalaam

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(bismillah)

(salam)

http://www.maaref-foundation.com/english/p...gracious/19.htm

Women's monthly menstruation, which starts at maturity and continues until the fifties or sixties, is nothing but the discharge of spoiled blood and tissues which were to hold the fetus had it been conceived.

Allah, the Almighty, says:

"They ask thee concerning women's menstruation. Say: They are a discomfort and a pollution."

This indicates that the discharged blood is a harmful substance, which would harm women if it stayed in their bodies. It is even noticeable that women's psychological and physiological states, including their facial appearance and everyday conduct change at this time of the month. By this, we conclude that the bleeding which results from monthly menstruation differs from the normal kind of bleeding, which any human being-including women-might suffer.

It is unquestionable that monthly menstruation causes women to feel nervous, shy and dejected despite the fact that this occurrence is an involuntary natural course. Yet women suffer this course, which is unmentionable to anyone especially to men. For this reason, women are not obligated to perform prayers or fast during menstruation. They are also forbidden from staying in Mosques or to enter the Sacred Mosque in Mecca and the Prophet's Mosque in Medina. In addition, reciting the chapters of Qalam, Najm, Alif Lam Mim Tanzil, and Ha Mim as Sajdah are not to be read during women's monthly periods.

These laws, which have just been mentioned, are also valid during confinement in childbed.

Nevertheless, Allah, The Exalted, relieved Fatima Zahra (A.S.) from such pollution, as He removed from her all abomination and purified her a total purification. This fact is authenticated by various traditions among which are the following:

1. Qanduzi reported in Yanabi' al-Mawaddah p.260. that the Prophet (P.B.U.H.) said: "She was safeguarded from menstruation and childbed (bleeding)."

2. Muhammad Salih al-Kashfi al-Hanafi reported in Al-Manaqib that the Prophet (P.B.U.H.) said: "Fatima was called Al-Batoul because she was safeguarded and relieved from that which women encounter every month (menstruation)."

3. A1-Amr-Tasri narrates in Arjah al-Matalib that the Prophet (P.B.U.H.) was asked about the meaning of Batoul-someone said to him: "Messenger of Allah, we have heard you say that Maryam is Batoul and Fatima, too, is Batoul!!"

The Prophet replied: "Batoul is she who never see blood, meaning that she never discharges menstrual blood; because menstruation is resented if it occurs in Prophet's daughters."

The above-mentioned narration was authenticated by Al-Hakim.

4. A1-Hafez Abu Bakr Ash-Shafe'i narrates in Tarikh Baghdad v.13, p.331, on the account of Ibn Abbass that the Prophet said: "My daughter is a human huri, she never menstruates, nor does she encounter any menses."

Nisaee also narrates this tradition.

5. Ibn Asaker mentioned in At-Tarikh al-Kabir v.1, p.391, on the account of Anas Ibn Malik that Umme Salim said:

"Fatima (may Allah be pleased with her) has never menstruated nor discharged childbed blood."

6. Al-Hafez al-Suyuti said:

'Among Fatima's particularities is that she did not menstruate, and when she gave birth to a child, she would immediately become purified from childbed confinement so as not to miss her prayers."

7. Rafae mentioned in At-Tadween that Umme Salama said:

"Fatima never discharged blood during her childbed confinement; nor does she menstruate."

8. Tabari narrates in Dhakhaer al-Uqbi that Asma Bint Umais said:

"When Fatima gave birth to Al-Hassan, she did not bleed; she also does not bleed during periods of menstruation. (When I informed the Prophet of this) he said: `Do you not know that my daughter is pure and chaste; she does not discharge blood as a result of childbirth or menstruation."'

Safari narrates this tradition in Nuzhat al-Majalis p.227.

9. It was mentioned in v.10 of Al-Bihar that Abu Basir quoted Imam Sadiq (A.S.) as saying:

'Allah, the Exalted, forbade Ali (A.S.) from marrying women while Fatima was still alive."

Abu Basir exclaimed: "Why was that?"

The Imam replied: "Because she was pure and does not menstruate."

Sheikh Majlisi commented on this narration by the following:

"This narration means either. First: Because Fatima did not menstruate, Ali (A.S.) had no reason to marry another woman. So Allah forbade him to marry other women in observance of her sanctity. Or, Second: Her eminence disallowed him from marrying another woman; where as this particularity of hers is part of this eminence."

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Salam Alaikum

Thank you sis wilayah and everyone else who contributed to this subject. I've really learnt alot from this thread :)

I was never aware that they were a blessing. Like sis Iman, I've always prayed to Allah that i wouldn't die while having my menses. I always had the idea (partly because of what i've been told by older women) that menses is a sort of "curse" on women and that it was one of the reasons why Imam Ali had said we're "naqisat aql wa deen" :cry:

Anyways... Alhamdulilah 3ala ni3mat al Islam

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(salam)

It's great to read of the Islamic perspective of menses, thanks sis Wilayah. I was always certain that Inshaallah we didn't have the misconceptions and contempt for women in menses like hindus and christians and possibly other relgions.

I have been enlightened to realise that we actually are being rewarded for this experience which does make sense come to think about it since discomforts and hardships, especially those that Allah gives you without your having a choice, and especially if we are able to accept this discomfort or hardship in this knowledge that it is what Allah has wished for us then InshaAllah those things result in reward.

Just to add, that 'm not entirely sure why the reference was posted about Bibi Fatema (as) not having menses and therefore being 'pure' but just incase someone is interpretting that as all women are somehow unclean/not pure, difficient, pre-disposed to sin and it is because of there menses, then i will just say this, Bibi Fatema was above all of us and her not having menses allowed her never to be in a state of not praying her namaaz and other worship for which you can't be in menses. Her life was dedicated to worship of Allah far more than we can ever begin to contemplate and therefore yes in comparison to Bibi Fatema (salam) we are defficient/unclean/not pure, but this thread has proven to us that Allah has not wanted for us to be treated in a deragotory way nor for us to feel guilty or ashamed because we have our periods.

Also remember that the infalliable males were born circumsiced....

Syeda

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Salam Alaykum,

وَ قَالَ ص مَنْ مَاتَتْ فِي حَيْضِهَا مَاتَتْ شَهِيدَةً

He also said, "A woman who dies while in state of menses dies a martyr"

Although I read this a while ago, after recently discussing it with someone I decided to ask. Specifically the quoted hadeeth, are we sure of the validity? Becuase it troubles me that we have the exact same hadeeth with "hub-e-aale mohammad" instead. That is what worried me, becuase these are two TOTALLY differant things and I don't think our Aimma would use the same wording for these two topics. I am FAR from knowledgable in this matter, but I wanted to express my concern and maybe someone could shed light on the issue inshallah.

Iltemas e dua

Khodahafiz

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Guest blessedflower

Haye sis............you really pleased my heart by giving this counter view point. It's indeed very true and that explains why science has prooved that the two hemispheres in women's brains are CONNECTED with a 'bridge'; whereas in men's brains the two hemispheres have NO connection wotsoever. That states/implies/means that women can use LOGIC and EMOTIONS at the same time whereas men only use the logical side more (that is dominant in straight men). And that is also why women tend to be able to brainwash men more easily; yet it's also seen that since women are emotional too men at times use logic to verbally abuse women. Gals simply need know their rights to shut men up when men use women's physical weakness as a deterant to accomplishing certain things in life.

It's a pleasure to be a woman. Truely!

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(bismillah) (salam)

Ehm ehm...the namaz and fasting issue:

Sis, calculate the no. of fasts for 7 days and the no. of namaz for 7 days. The five prayers for 7 days equal to 35 salaats whereas the fasts remain the same: 7.

Now, after your periods do you really wanna take a day out and say 35 qaza salaats? Wouldn't that be unrealistic and burdening? Yet after periods we can easily fast for 7 days without any burden.

As for bibi F, well they are Elhul Bayt and pure. We are created from nutfah which is made of najasat; najasat never touched ahlul bayt. They existed as beings of Nur before Adam was created from dirt. After that Allah gave them a physical body so to appear ''like us humans'' when they came to this earth. Now, someone made of nur and purity, can u imagine their bodies being created of nijasat? Doesn't quite make any sense. :)

As for us: we are ''dirty'' meaning created of dirt. Our souls are simply the breath of Allah's will and don't compare anywhere near the souls of Ahlul Bayt.

A relative of mine is very religious, visits shrines and stuff and like kisses the steps (stairs) outside and stuff, she's very respectful and that's how she spent her pregnancy; rumor is her son was born circumcised. Also, her family usually have a lot of miracles in mohorram and such, Masha'Allah.

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salamz

im sooo happpyyyy...really i cant control myself ....this is a very rewarding thing u just said sis Wilayah...Jazakallah khair ya ukhti....MAy all your problems be solved ...may Allah bless u with all the riches of the world...thankyou very much for sharing this with us... :blush: :) :)

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