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In the Name of God بسم الله

Did Imam Sajjad (a.s) did zanjeer?

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zanjeer is a cultural practice which has been disallowed by some maraji' and allowed by others...it is not a part of the aqeeda and the ahlul-bayt (as) had nothing to do with it. some see it as a cultural innovation.

"Zanjeer is an expression of grief."

so is suicide ;)

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some see it as a cultural innovation.

:mad: :mad: :mad:

The next person that says that I'm coming round with a zanjeer to see if you've got a brain in your head :realangery:

Zanjeer IS NOT and CANNOT be an "innovation" of any sort. It is not part of the Shari'ah. Can I make it any simpler?

\so is suicide 

That is halal ;)

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salam habibi youth :)

"The next person that says that I'm coming round with a zanjeer to see if you've got a brain in your head"

now lemme quote myself:

"some see it as a cultural innovation."

let me take this lovely opportunity to emphasize the part where i say "some." I dont think ive given my stance on this matter, ive pointed out what some of my other dear bro's and sisters say. got it dear? good ^_^

whats halal? suicide :huh: hehe...im playing i know what u mean....i dont think u should conclusively say that its halal and neither should i conclusively say that it is haram...which is why i said:

"zanjeer is a cultural practice which has been disallowed by some maraji' and allowed by others"

so im sure u'll agree with me that the wisest thing to do in this matter is to refer to he whom ur making taqleed of.

fee ammanillah

:)

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Salam Alaikum

In my opinion, a handful of maraja today, out of hundreds of other maraja today and in the past, does not constitute "some"... "very few" would be a more apt description.

And another 2 cents: The Maraja like Ayatullah Khamanai who has partly banned it has not done so on the basis of the action itself, but due to other's perception of and reaction to it.

Bro YoA, i know how you feel

<_<

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And another 2 cents: The Maraja like Ayatullah Khamanai who has partly banned it has not done so on the basis of the action itself, but due to other's perception of and reaction to it.

What do you mean by partly banned? Ayatollah Khamenei didnt forbid it.

He says about zanjeer: If it is done in the traditional way (i.e. without knife) and entails neither disgrace to our denomination nor considerable physical harm, it is no problem.

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Zangir is the Khorasani equivalent of Tatbir, and as Khorasan is next to India anything Khorasanian automatically becomes Indian also, and vice versa, the practise, with knives-which is the original format-just the chains is actually the innovation, predates any organised clergy in Shiism and has been going on in the Indus-Khorasan nexus for more than a thousand yeras and actually represents the lashes dipped in Oil which were used on the Holy Family (as) on thier trip from Kerbala to Syria to see Yazid (LA), there is no innovation in it.

There is a meuseun in Iran, in Yazd which has many old self-flagellation instruments that have now fallen out of use, zangir ofcourse still goes on, there used to be hooks etc representing what was done to the Holy Family (as), I also have some photgraphs from the 19th century, maybe I'll scan them one day, Wasalam!

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Sallam

Since the action according to many contains merit and Sawaab, yes it is very much a part of Sharia.

Sallam

Since you have no knowledge whatsoever on the issue, you should remain silent.

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