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In the Name of God بسم الله
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Abd El Hasan

Not mentioning names, Abdul Hasnain

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Recently, I have been having an interesting discussion with one of your brothers. I just wanted to show you the intelligence this brother of yours has.

I posed a statement to him and requested him to reply to it. My statement is in bold, ( ref, the incident of the cave)

"The quran is unique in that it teaches us it's language through itself. Brother I draw your attention to verse 9:40 of the holy quran. There are two important things in this verse:

1. It says "Sani Esnayhoma" which means "one of the two". We have no other verses in Quran where a companion of any prophet is referred to as One of the Two. Now just imagine what an exagurated conclusions you Shia would make from this verse if the verse was for Ali. You could hear stuff like: "This means Ali and the prophet are very close, or that they are in fact the same !!! etc.

2. The verse says that the prophet told Aboobakr: La Tahzan that means Don't be Sad. Now if you search Quran for the same phrase "La Tahzan" ( don't grieve), you will see that there apart from this verse there are exactly 6 other verses where this phrase has been used. Quran teaches us its terminology and culture by understanding its verses by other verses. In two of these verses it is Allah(swt) who says we returned baby Musa to his mother so that she does not become sad (La TAhzan). In three of them God says to the prophet (pbuh) don't be sad (La Tahzan). And finally in one verse angels are telling prophet Loot don't get sad (La Tahzan). Abubakr is addressed by the prophet with same phrase that the mother of Musa, the prophet himself and prophet Loot have been addressed.

It is funny and amusing when I read Shia commentaries that they are trying to use any sort of argument to some how prove that this verse is in fact a disadvantage for Abubakr rather than an advantage!!!!!!!

Allah is perfect and consistent and above I have shown you how Allah(swt) has spoken to Abu Bakr(ra), the same as he has to 2 prophets and a mother of a prophet."

So the intelligent lad he is, he replies with what is below,

Firstly, he gave the shia tafsir or hadith about the incident then he said what is below

"but simply to look at this verse that you have honoured Abu Bakr with, "Don't grieve", Do you know what Allah (SW) says about people who greive? Check the following verses out:

"Behold! verily on the friends of Allah there is no fear, nor

shall they grieve;" - 10:62 and others like [2:112] [2:262] [2:274]

[2:277] [2:38] [2:62] [3:170] [5:69] [6:48] [7:35] [39:61] [46:13]"

I stated earlier that Allah (swt) used the same phrase on 2 prophets and a mother of a prophet. Yet your intelligent friend gives me the verse above. So according to his logic. Nabi Mohammad, Nabi Lot and the mother of Moses aren't friends of Allah. Astgfarallah.

I don't want to mention any names but I think in the future you should think about what you say ABDUL HASNAIN.

Oh and by the way, my brother read his reply and didn't stop laugh for about five minutes. After that he told me why are you wasting your time with this person, it is obvious he has no intelligence.

Allah knows best.

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Salam 3alaykum,

Brother, have you heard of context. I do not know what the sunni tafsir for the reason of the revelation of this verse, maybe it is so that you can say, "see clearly this verse means abu Bakr is the Calipha after the Prophet." But the shia know that this verse was revealed, because Abu Bakr was grieving, and was going to give away the location of Rasool Allah in the cave, unlike the context in which Allah (SW) said it to the other people in his holy Book.

Since our friend has decided to post a part of this email up, i will make the whole of it available. Subhan Allah, luckily I saved it.

Ali ibn Khalil

Salam 3alaykum

Dialogue.txt

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Good on ya you saved it.

Did you read the part were I said that the quran teaches us it language through it's verses.

Don't talk to me about context. The way you shia deal with the quran is like a little kid playing logo.

I have more nice things that you have said but I will leave. Because I am truly wasting my time.

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Unfortunately, it was Abu Bakr who was scared. Abu Bakr was a scared person, perhap those idols that he worshipped for 40 yrs did not come for his help. Then the Holy Prophet said: "Do not fear. Allah is with us."

The verse also points out the fact that wherever in the Quran those who received tranquillity (sakinah) from Allah have been mentioned Abu Bakr must be excluded because his fear has been historically recorded and referred to in this verse. "His companion" (sahibihi) and the "second of the two" imply no merit. See verse 37 of Kahf in which out of the two "mutual companions" one was a believer and the other was a disbeliever.

Hence, is it possible that abi bakr was scared, frightened and hence the Holy Prophet saws had to console him, to show him that Allah swt is with them. Im just thinking what would of Imam Ali a.s. done on that situation.

Lets compare abi bakr to Imam Ali (a.s.),

2:207 æóãöäó ÇáäøóÇÓö ãóä íóÔúÑöí äóÝúÓóåõ ÇÈúÊöÛóÇÁ ãóÑúÖóÇÊö Çááøåö æóÇááøåõ ÑóÄõæÝñ ÈöÇáúÚöÈóÇÏö

And among men is he who sells himself to seek the pleasure of Allah; and Allah is Affectionate to the servants.

Thalabi, Ghazali, the author of Ahya-ul Ulum, and all the Shia commentators say that this verse was revealed to praise Ali ibna abi Talib, when he slept in the bed of the Holy Prophet, during the night of hijrat.

Imam Ali (a.s.) through this obviously shows he knew that the Holy Prophets saws life was worth more than his, that he would risk his life for the sake of Islam, and that he was not scared and hence was content that when he slept, there would be swords over him.

Lets compare this to abi bakr..............LOL... so pls, yes you are truely wasting your time. And your brother, inshallah he can laugh as long as he wants, and he is raised on the day of judgement with abi bakr, who will surely be asking for Allah swt mercy.

Surely "The Shia of Ali are the real victorious in the day of resurrection/rising"

Sunni references: al-Manaqib Ahmad, as mentioned in:

Yanabi al-Mawaddah, by al-Qundoozi al-Hanafi, p62 "brave" (DO NOT FEAR, Allah IS WITH US 9:40 ) warriors are not Shia of Ali, but enemies of AhlulBayt.

As it is said in - Iqd al-Fareed, by Ibn Abd Rabb, Part 3, Pg. 63

- al-Ghurar, by Ibn Khazaben, related from Zayd Ibn Aslam,

Ali and Abbas were sitting inside the house of Fatimah, Abu Bakr told Umar: "Go and bring them; if they refuse, kill them." Umar brought fire to burn the house. Fatimah came near the door and said: "O son of Khattab, have you come to burn our house on me and my children?" Umar replied: "Yes I will, by Allah, until they come out and pay allegiance to the Prophet's Caliph."

The similitude of my household among you is that of the ark of Noah: whoever embarks upon it is saved, and whoever lags behind it is drowned," Al-Hakim quotes it from Abu Tharr on page 151, Vol. 3, of his Sahih Al-Mustadrak.

So Embark unlike, your leaders who tried to burn AhlulBayts Ark......but then again.....they were brave! <_<

Wassalam

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9_40.gif

A Memorable Dream

Once Sheikh saw a dream, and then dictated it to his companions and disciples. He said: I dreamt that as I was passing through a street, I saw a large crowd gathered around someone. On enquiry, I was told that they had surrounded Umar b. al-Khattab, the second Caliph.

I pushed myself forward, and when I came near him, I said: "O Sheikh, do you allow me to ask a question?" He said: "Ask." So I said: "Would you explain me how is the excellence of your friend Abu Bakr established by the Ayah in which Allah says: 'the second of the two, when they were in the cave'. Your friends are making too much out of it."

He said: "This Ayah proves Abu Bakr's excellence in six ways:

-Allah mentions the Prophet, peace be upon him, and then mentions Abu Bakr with him, as his second of the two;

-Allah mentions them as being together at one place; which is a sign of mutual affinity;

-Allah adds further quality of being the Prophet's "SAHIB", the Companion;

-Allah relates how kind and caring the Prophet was towards Abu Bakr when he told him, "Don't grieve";

-Where the Prophet assured Abu Bakr that "Allah is with us" meaning that He will help both of them simultaneously;

-Allah revealed that He will send down AS-SAKINAH (serenity) upon Abu Bakr because as far as the Prophet was concerned, AS SAKINAH never parted from him

These are six proofs of Abu Bakr's excellence from the mentioned Ayah."

Sheikh says: "I told him that he had indeed made a good effort to make his point, and had left no room for any other person to be a better advocate for his friend. But I was going to demolish the arguments, making it like ashes blown away by the fast wind."

Sheikh said:

-"When you say that Allah has mentioned the Prophet, peace be upon him and his progeny, and then mentioned Abu Bakr as his second, I do not see anything extraordinary in that. For if you ponder over it, you will find that Allah was only revealing the number of persons present in the cave. They were two; there could have been a Mo'min and a Kafir and they would still be two."

-"And when you talk of they being together at one place, it is again as simple as the first case. If there was one place only, it could have been occupied by a Mo'min and a disbeliever also. The Mosque of the Prophet is definitely a better place than the cave, and yet it was a gathering place for the believers and the hypocrites. The Ark of Prophet Noah carried the Prophet Noah, together with Satan and the animals. So being together at one place is no virtue."

-"And when you talk about the added quality of being 'SAHIB', the companion, this indeed is a weaker point than the first two, because a believer and a disbeliever can both be in the company of each other. Allah, Most High, used the word 'SAHIB' in the following Ayah:

'His "SAHIB" (companion) said to him while he was conversing with him: Have you disbelieved in the One Who created you from soil and then from a small quantity of sperm, then fashioned you harmoniously as a man?' (al-KAHF V. 37).

Further, we find in Arabic literature that the word "SAHIB" is used for the accompanying donkey, and also for the sword. So, if the term can be used between a Momin and a Kafir, between a man and his animal, and between a living and an inanimate object, then what is so special in it about your friend?"

-"And the words 'Don't grieve' were not meant for any solace;. Because it was a statement forbidding an act. In Arabic, we have 'donts' and 'dos' as imperative verbs. Now, the grief expressed by Abu Bakr was either an act of obedience or disobedience. If it was obedience, the Prophet would not have forbidden it, therefore it is proved that it was an act of sin and disobedience."

-"As for the assurance that 'Allah is with us', the pronoun 'us' was used by the Prophet for himself The use of plural pronoun for oneself is a sign of ones elevated status. Allah says:

'Indeed, We are the One who has revealed the Quran, and We will most surely preserve it.' (Al-Hijr V.9).

And again:

'We are the One who gives life and ordains death, and We are the inheritor' (al-Hijr V.23).

And the Shias have their own version, which does not seem far-fetched. They say that Abu Bakr told the Prophet that his grief was for Ali b. Abi Talib (who was left behind in Makkah), and the Prophet replied: 'Do not grieve, surely, Allah is with us' meaning; with me and my brother, Ali b. Abi Talib."

-"Your claim that AS-SAKINAH (serenity) was sent down to Abu Bakr is indeed outrageous. Because the verse clearly states that the serenity came unto him who was helped with the unseen army.

The Ayah says:

'... Then Allah sent down on him His serenity and strengthened him with unseen forces' (al-Tawbah: 40).

So if AS-SAKINAH had descended upon Abu Bakr, he would have received the support of the unseen army. In fact, it would have been better if you had not attributed this to Abu Bakr. For according to Quran, this serenity was sent down on the Prophet twice:

'Then Allah sent down His serenity upon His messenger and the believers, and sent down forces which you did not see ...'. (al Taubah:V.26).

'Then Allah sent down His serenity upon His Messenger and the believers, and adhered them to the word of piety' (al-Fath: V. 26).

In both places, the believers shared the serenity with the Prophet, but in this event of the cave, serenity was sent down to the Prophet alone, excluding Abu Bakr. This may be a pointer to the fact that Abu Bakr was not.....!"

Sheikh says that Umar made no reply to my arguments, and as people around him scattered, he woke up from his sleep.

:rolleyes:

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Salam Alaikum

One of the two is a fadheelah of Abu Bakr?????

no, its not, its simple maths. There were TWO people in the cave. So the Quran, not intended to naming names, said ONE OF THE TWO. If I see a kafir and a muslim, i would say ONE OF THE TWO, and there will be no insult nor compliment to anybody.

Let us compare Abu Bakr, and Imam Ali (a.s.)...

Imam Ali (a.s.) stayed on Prophet's (s.a.w.s) bed, with a great possibility that he be killed, mistakingly thought of being the Prophet (s). This was a clear risk of death.

Abu Bakr statred crying in the cave, and was scared by the fact that they may be found, and had to be told to shut up so he wont give them away.

This reminds me of a paki joke.

There was a stupid farmer who was called to the thrown of a king, amongst the other farmers of the kingdom. Once he was at the throne, he didnt know how to act in respect to the king. King did not like it so he told him off and admonished him. He was himiliated in front of everybody.

But when the farmer got home, the silly person that he was, instead of hiding his face, he was proud of himself and showed off that he had the honour of being directly spoken to by the king in person, and admonished by his personal self. - i guess it dont happen everyday to everybody.

I guess its not everyday that a companion almost gives the Prophet away to the enemy, so i dont blame you guys in seeing this as an honour.

Wasalm

Abbas

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