Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
Hussain_Abbas

suicide in israel

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

If a suicide attack is carried out in a cafe knowing that there are women and children there, then its not allowed.

If a suicide attack is carried out during a battle when you don't have much weapons to fight with. For eg. if you go under a tank and blow yourself its ok.

Allah knows best.

just for the record: Hezbollah didn't carry suicide attacks on civilians. Only on the Israeli army.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If a suicide attack is carried out in a cafe knowing that there are women and children there, then its not allowed.

ok so what if they are in the cafe but there arent any women or children in the cafe.but there are only men there.

and also some referenses will also be appriciated. thank you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sallam

but suicide is not allowed in islam.Why shud it be allowed for suicide bombers? I just dont beleive its right although i can see they have no weapons but still.I have asked alot of elderly people such as islamic teachers and they say it is not allowed.

Allah waris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salaam alaikum,

All of the Shia Scholars I have seen, and some of the Sunni ones, say it is allowed. Why? Because the Palestinians are in a desperate situation, the world has turned it's back on them and they don't have any other way. If the archive section is still open, you can look there for specific fatwas.

WaSalaam, Hajar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

asalaam alaikum,

Please refrain from giving your opinions as "fatwas" on behalf of the Mujtahids.

Ayatullah Makarem Shirazi and Ayatullah Lankarani have already issued their fatwas. To paraphrase their answer: if Islam is at stake in the Holy Lands, then not only suicide bombings are allowed but they are 'wajib-e-kefai'

As far as discriminating between women/children and men, if the enemy does not discriminate between killing your women/children and men, then there is no obligation for the Palestinians to discriminate between Israelis.

I just dont beleive its right although i can see they have no weapons but still.I have asked alot of elderly people such as islamic teachers and they say it is not allowed.

In order for you to judge between right and wrong, you need proper Islamic training in Fiqh. You fully submit to a doctor when you are sick and you fully submit to a pilot when you board an airplane, but when it comes to your religion and whether you go to hell or heaven, it seems that you are happy with following your opinion. Why don't you listen to a Mujtahid?

wa'salaam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In His Name, the Most High

Salaams

With all due respect can we please refrain from using the term suicide bombing or suicide anything for that matter.

Sheesh - why is it that Muslims constantly fall into this trap of using the terminology of the zionist Media machine.

For those of you who don't understand. The first martyrdom operation was carried out by Imam Ali(A), when he lay in the bed of the Prophet Muhammad(S) as the Prophet(S) departed to goto Madinah (the time of the Hijrah).

It was done so that Islam would be saved, and protected. It was done so that justice would be known, and the truth would be preserved.

It was an operation where the person making the operation was ready to die, so that Islam may flourish.

Our beloved brothers and sisters in Palestine, though some of them may be misguided, they are making operations that keep the Palestinian issue alive.

I can say with complete certainty (and some will call this arrogance, say what you will - but Allah is aware of my intentions), that if our beloved Brothers and Sisters in Palestine were not doing any operations - the the plight of our brothers and sisters would have been forgotten by the majority of the Muslims and all the people of the world.

The tragedy is that Muslims are falling prey to the terminology adopted by the Western and Zionist Media Machines.

Shame on those who degrade our beloved Martyrs to the level of people who have committed suicide.

You should think deeper, especially in the time of the Martyrdom Anniversary of the first Istishhaadi (Person who makes a martyrdom operation) of Islam, Imam Ali(A).

With Salaams and Dua's

Shabbir

---

martyrdom_of_imam_ali.sized.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bismillah al-Rahman al-Rahim

Salaams,

I agree with the line of Hizbullah, which has been quite succinctly reiterated here by Bro Shabbir.

We, the Muslims, call these attacks against the enemies "Martyrdom Operations", not "Suicide Bombings". We must make it very clear that in any war, we must be willing to give our lives to gain the victory, for Allah. In the situation of the Palestinian Mujahideen, the battle is so uneven in terms of military strength, that they have resorted to means that will ensure they make devestating blows upon the enemies, although with certainty they know it will cost them their lives. The same can be said of many situations in wars where there is an absolute certainty of martyrdom owing to the circumstances of the situation.

On another point:

As far as discriminating between women/children and men, if the enemy does not discriminate between killing your women/children and men, then there is no obligation for the Palestinians to discriminate between Israelis.

This is wrong. If a kafir does something to you that would be haram according to Islamic Fiqh, does it make it halal for you to do the same to him? Of course not!

Ex. 1: At the end of WWII, the US employed Nuclear weapons against the civilian populations of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. According to Islamic Law, would this give Japan the right to retailiate using similar weapons against US civilian populations? No, because it is haram to target civilian populations.

Ex. 2: During the Bosnian war, and consequent civil wars involving the Former Yugoslavian Republics, the Serbs employed rape as a weapon of war against the Muslim female civilan population. Does this give the Mujahideen the right to rape Christian Serb women? I think not. (Unless, of course, you happen to be Khalid bin Walid, in which case Abu Bakr may give you a pat on the back for doing so... but I digress)

If we look to the unique situation which we are now facing today in Occupied Palestine, then those circumstances which make this conflict different to others must be hilighted. Those persons who have settled in Palestine, against the will of the native population, are illegitemate residents of that land. All "Israeli's" are settlers. This is because "Israel" does not really exist. It is just a "State" that was recognised 50 years ago by the Western superpowers via the (then newly formed) UN. In the land known commonly today as "Israel", a grave injustice has taken place. The European Zionist Settlers have taken the land by force, through the method of ethnic cleansing by terrorism, and are now seeking to plunder the land. All "Israeli's", as a law of their "state", MUST do military service. This military service aims to oppress and crush the will of the Arab population. Therefore, every adult male and female in Occupied Palestine, is a legitimate target, because they subscribe to an ideology of hatred and racism, and physically support oppression through military means.

Children are a grey area here. If they are killed by accident, then it is tragic (that their parents would wish to put them in such a dangerous situation when they could just go back to America instead). But if children are targetted, under any circumstances, then it is a sin. That is why Hizbullah went to such lengths to avoid any operations where children could possibly be hurt.

Our conduct must always be dictated by Islam. If we deviate, may the curse of Allah fall upon us.

Oh Allah, grant victory to your servants amongst the Oppressed people's of the world.

Oh Allah, help us maintain the straight path in our Struggle against the Oppressors.

Oh Allah, do not let the flame of Resistance flicker and fade. But make it instead a raging inferno that will destroy the tyrants and liberate mankind!

With prayers for victory,

Wasalaam,

Jondab Ali

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is Martyrdom bombing allowed? Sure it is. Period.

Situation in Palestine is different from other places. Those Jews came to Palestine and slaughter as many Palestinians Arabs and Christian to house their own Jewish race from all corners of the world. They are thieves, murderers and terrorist.

Israelis do not believe Palestinians have any Right to Palestine. They want to drive all Arabs and Christian out from the holy Land.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sallams

Just want to point out that the media keeps saying israeli "civillians"... I was once at a Islamic lecture and the sheik pointed out that in the israeli constitution that all people who live in israel .. (i.e the jews) are actually combatants... all citizens are combtants... so that means technically there arent any "civillians"... so therefore if there combatants.. they are all legitimate targets... what are your views.. has anyone heard this also.

Take care and in good health.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sallam

hey hey optikal srry...dont get all angry...and about my opinion...i think i have a right to that...i hate israel and all those people as much as anyone else does to u knw...i to am a muslim...and i to sympathise with the palestinians...what i have read in the Quran is that suicide is not allowed...so indirectly this is not my opinion... maybe it is allowed in this Allah in knows best.

sallam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sallams

Salmany what are they suppssed to do then... huh? sit back... watch their homes been demolished for no reason... ooh sorry actually there is a reason... to build more jewish settlements... whats ur solution? give more land to the jews - so more land gets taken away from our brothers and sisters... the issue of war on terrorism should be focussed on "israel" not iraq. The "weapons inspectors" should be going through the weapons of mass destruction in "israel" and the war crimes they have committed.

Allah barak al shouhadaa!

Take care and in good health

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On another point:
As far as discriminating between women/children and men, if the enemy does not discriminate between killing your women/children and men, then there is no obligation for the Palestinians to discriminate between Israelis.

This is wrong. If a kafir does something to you that would be haram according to Islamic Fiqh, does it make it halal for you to do the same to him? Of course not!

Salaam alaikum,

I think it depends on the situation. The following aya clearly says that in retaliation, you do the same to them that they did to you.

[2.178] O you who believe! retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the slain, the free for the free, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female, but if any remission is made to any one by his (aggrieved) brother, then prosecution (for the bloodwit) should be made according to usage, and payment should be made to him in a good manner; this is an alleviation from your Lord and a mercy; so whoever exceeds the limit after this he shall have a painful chastisement.

[2.179] And there is life for you in (the law of) retaliation, O men of understanding, that you may guard yourselves.

WaSalaam, Hajar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In His Name, the Most High

Salaams

Suicide, as has been elucidated in much detail in posts prior to this, is haram according to any marja.

What happens in palestine, is NOT SUICIDE BOMBING - they are marytrdom operations.

Since, already my posts are edited due to the lack of understanding of people - I will rephrase:

Enough of this Islam which uses terminology from CNN. I hope that makes it clearer - sheesh! Salmany - this is not an attack on you or anyone else - it is simply designed to shock my respected brothers and sisters into realising that by calling our beloved Shohada "Suicide bombers" we insult them. This is a crime not only against them - but against Allah - we are in Ramadhan - do we have no shame?????? Read my previous post and learn a little. Also - the only time my statement becomes an "attack" is when it hits home. If it hits home - that person must be following the Islam of America (CNNified Islam) - otherwise why is there such pain???

Enough.

With Salaams and Dua's

Shabbir

Sis Hajar (Moderator):

I edited, what in my opinion, was a personal attack.

I reply to this:

Convince me it was a personal attack? Or is it because it spews forth from the keyboard of Shabbir that people assume that its personal??? sheesh. Try and understand please.

Question: Islam of America - would that also be classed as a "personal attack" on some anonymous person - it is only a "personal" attack is someone is indeed following it - Imam Khumayni(A) used Islam-e-Amriki - I used CNNified Islam, to mean the same thing.

I guess people can't see that.

Oh well. Never mind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sallam

i dont think any of u have any right saying my islam or anyone elses islam is CNNified ok.... because its not... anyway if im angering you people so much .. ill be a good guy and i wont post anything on this particular topic

sallam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

salam,

salmany: Bro. your intention must be pure and right...

and one thing which I would like to say here is that you cant make everyone happy ..

You think, your intention was/is good, then there is no problem... ofcourse you have right to ask/discuss your point of view.. and you can :)

I know, you are new to do this board, so welcome to this ShiaChat Board, and just dont get dishearted because of someone who dont know your intention..This Islam thing and intention thing, is between you and your Allah :)

may Allah(swt) guide us..

ma'salama

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In His Name, the Most High

Salaams Sis Hajar

With all due respect sister, I do not appreciate you editing my posts to remove "CNNified Islam" whereas you sit there and do nothing while people insult the shohada.

This happened with the Ulema, now that, that line in secure and insults are not possible - we are starting on allowing the shohada to be called suicidal.

It is Ramadhan.

As you are no doubt aware, Imam Ali(A) was the first Istishhaadi (Martrydom operation maker) - or suicide operative in the "prefered lingo of shiachat - when he lay in the bed of the Prophet(S) ready to die for him.

Yet you censor my post? But not that of people who say that the operation in Palestine are now allowed?

You people really worry me. You as moderators have responsibilities to Imam al-Mahdi(AJ), and to the Ulema and Shohada when you take on a site.

I would suggest adhering to it.

I don't care that my post was censored, hell you can delete my posts, it is not important that my name be there. What is important is that the name of Allah should be high at all times, and that those who die and are killed in the way of Allah are Martyrs.

I would suggest a response on the thread from you would be appropriate, like why you think it was a personal attack - against who - and based on what

I'll give you a head start.

It was a personal attack. Yes. Against anyone who follows the Islam that is portrayed by CNN and by the Zionist and Imperialists - if that hurts so much then you need to check yourself.

Why is it hurting so much when this is the same Islam that is reponsible for the continued occupation of Quds, Hijaz, Iraq and all the Islamic World (except the glorious Islamic Republic). It is this Islam, this CNNified Islam, that harms innocents and puts slaves back into sweatshops. Anyone who adheres to this line - is on the line of Muawiyyah and Abu Sufyan and quite frankly, like Surah at-Tawba says - "Make Bara'a from such people".

The day of Quds is comming, the day of Palestine, the day of the Marytrdom Operatives and Fighters and Children of Palestine.

The only people who will call these people these true believers suicidal are the enemies of Islam. Those who follow the Islam of AMerican. The CNNified Islam.

Try and Understand.

To Br Salmany, you need to understand that when these glorious martyrs are called "suicide bombers" by the Zionist and Imperialist media (CNN, BBC, ITN, WTN, ABC, CBS, NBC, etc) it is designed to do two things.

1/ To confuse the weak minded muslims into accepting this terminology which is by its very nature insulting to the glorious martyrs

2/ Sow the seeds of doubt regarding martyrdom in the hearts of those who's faith is weak.

It is for this reason that I refered to it as the CNNified Islam. You don't like it - fine ban me.

With Salaams and Dua's

Shabbir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In His Name, the Most High

Salaams Sis Hajar

With all due respect sister, I do not appreciate you editing my posts to remove "CNNified Islam" whereas you sit there and do nothing while people insult the shohada.

This happened with the Ulema, now that, that line in secure and insults are not possible - we are starting on allowing the shohada to be called suicidal.

It is Ramadhan.

As you are no doubt aware, Imam Ali(A) was the first Istishhaadi (Martrydom operation maker) - or suicide operative in the "prefered lingo of shiachat - when he lay in the bed of the Prophet(S) ready to die for him.

Yet you censor my post? But not that of people who say that the operation in Palestine are now allowed?

You people really worry me. You as moderators have responsibilities to Imam al-Mahdi(AJ), and to the Ulema and Shohada when you take on a site.

I would suggest adhering to it.

I don't care that my post was censored, hell you can delete my posts, it is not important that my name be there. What is important is that the name of Allah should be high at all times, and that those who die and are killed in the way of Allah are Martyrs.

I would suggest a response on the thread from you would be appropriate, like why you think it was a personal attack - against who - and based on what

I'll give you a head start.

It was a personal attack. Yes. Against anyone who follows the Islam that is portrayed by CNN and by the Zionist and Imperialists - if that hurts so much then you need to check yourself.

Why is it hurting so much when this is the same Islam that is reponsible for the continued occupation of Quds, Hijaz, Iraq and all the Islamic World (except the glorious Islamic Republic). It is this Islam, this CNNified Islam, that harms innocents and puts slaves back into sweatshops. Anyone who adheres to this line - is on the line of Muawiyyah and Abu Sufyan and quite frankly, like Surah at-Tawba says - "Make Bara'a from such people".

The day of Quds is comming, the day of Palestine, the day of the Marytrdom Operatives and Fighters and Children of Palestine.

The only people who will call these people these true believers suicidal are the enemies of Islam. Those who follow the Islam of AMerican. The CNNified Islam.

Try and Understand.

To Br Salmany, you need to understand that when these glorious martyrs are called "suicide bombers" by the Zionist and Imperialist media (CNN, BBC, ITN, WTN, ABC, CBS, NBC, etc) it is designed to do two things.

1/ To confuse the weak minded muslims into accepting this terminology which is by its very nature insulting to the glorious martyrs

2/ Sow the seeds of doubt regarding martyrdom in the hearts of those who's faith is weak.

It is for this reason that I refered to it as the CNNified Islam. You don't like it - fine ban me.

With Salaams and Dua's

Shabbir

Salaam alaikum Brother,

As you can see above, I have already stated that our ulema have said these attacks are allowed. I also told them where they could find the fatwas, although I am not certain that the archives are still open. If anyone let's me know that they want to see the fatwas and can't find them, I have access to them and can give them the information. I posted them on the other server, more than once, I believe. Those who sincerely want to know the truth, will ask. Therefore, I think it is unfair of you to say I am letting people attack the shaheeds. My methods are simply different from yours.

I don't think it is necessary to attack the members who are asking questions about this topic. They don't know that these attacks are allowed. They are asking questions, and will hopefully find the answers. Insulting people who are searching for answers, is not appropriate, in my opinion. That's why I edited your post. I felt you were aiming these words at the person you responded to, while I believe he is sincere in his questions and really wants the answers. I edited two lines, the first line I felt was really inappropriate for one Muslim to say to another. The second line, about ZNN I thought was further compounding the insult to this Brother.

There are ethics to disagreement. Imam Ali(as) didn't immediately pick up the sword, and cut off the head of everyone who went against him. First he tried to advise them in a good way. Look at all the letters he wrote to Muawiyyah. Imam Ali knew what kind of person he was, but still he tried to reason with him. It was only after all this failed that he went to war with him. This is the model I think we should be following.

We shouldn't assume that if someone doesn't know something, then he/she is an enemy. The cure for ignorance is education and knowlege, not harassment. We know that there is a lot of anti-Islam information out there. Sometimes people don't have any other information. But when they hear the truth, they may recognize it. However, I think the way in which the information is presented has a direct effect on whether or not someone will accept it. If it is presented in a rational way with kindness, I think it is better, than to present it in a combatative way.

If you still don't understand my methods, or have any other questions, please feel free to send me a private message.

WaSalaam, Hajar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salaam alaikum,

Below are some quotes from our Scholars on the issue of the martyrdom operations in Palestine.

Imam Khamene'i (excerpt from a speech given on May 1, 2002.

Martyrdom-seeking Operations: "Zenith of Courage and Bravery"

In response to the horrendous tyranny that the people of Palestine are subjected to these days, there are two solutions. These two solutions are inevitable and must be accepted by everyone. The first is to continue the intifada. The people of Palestine must continue their resistance. Praise be to God, they have stood firm so far. The climax of this resistance can be seen in the martyrdom-seeking operations.

It is the zenith of honor for a man, a young person, boy or girl, to be prepared to sacrifice his life in order to serve the interests of his nation and his religion. This is the zenith of courage and bravery. This is what frightens the enemy. We have therefore seen that everyone, from the American president to the lowest rank of officials who work to serve the American policies all over the world, has tried to put a stop to these martyrdom-seeking operations by censuring and denouncing it. On the contrary, martyrdom-seeking operations demonstrate the pinnacle of a nation's honor. They demonstrate the zenith of the epic.

Are there not any martyrdom-seeking operations when a military force is offering to sacrifice everything to defend its homeland? Are there not any martyrdom-seeking operations when a belligerent and ruthless army commits an aggression against another country, whose people put up a resistance against the invading army? In such cases, who can condemn such operations? Who can mar the value and esteem of such operations in the minds of the fair and conscientious people?

Martyrdom-seeking operations are the zenith of the Palestinians greatness. This is the truth even though some people may decide to utter and write contradictory words and censure a nation which has been suffering for 50 years, because of the failure of the past generations to pay attention to its long-term interests, and is now left with no option but to sacrifice its blood to restore its rights. The Palestinian nation is alive and alert and is moving forward. This was the first solution.

END OF QUOTE****

The Marje' Ayatollah Fadel lankarani that the martyrdom operations done by the Palestinian Mujahedeen "are the most suitable way in the current situation to face the Israeli agression and defend oneself".

The Marje' Ayatollah Sane'i that the martyrdom operations are a must under the world's silence explaining that "the Palestinians can work based on an clear Islamic basis which is defense that gives the human the choice of selecting the way of self defense and one of them is martyrdom is one of the ways".

The Marje' Ayatollah Musawi Ardabili said: "those who do martyrdom operations are considered martyrs from the first rank, and I am sure that if the purified prophet and imams where among us they would not be late for Jihad and sacrifice for Palestine.

The Marje' Safi Golbaykani said about the martyrdom operations against the Zionists: " If keeping their danger away from Islam comes in the martyrdom work, (then) it is a Wajib Kifa'ei".

***

Grand Ayatollah Seestani

Question: What is your opinion of the suicide operations that a young Muslim would execute in the Occupied Lands?

Answer: If such operations support Islam and Muslims, and weakens the infidels, then there is no objection.

***

Grand Ayatullah Safi Gulbaiygani: it is a Wajib Kifaei.

Grand Ayatullah Lankarani: I don't have the least of doubt about it.

Grand Aytatullah Yousif Sani'eei: the defence of people must be on all aspects... and some by martyrdom operations and fighting Israel

Grand Ayatullah Abdul-Kareem Musawi Adibili: The martyrdom operations are in accordance to the text of Islam, Quran and the Islamic hadiths.

Grand ayatullah Seestani: History will record this struggle with shining words.

WaSalaam, Hajar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Br Salmany

Trust me that there is no Marja/Alim or Scholars of Islam in the ShiaWorld that say These Palestinians are committing suicide. Listen to what brother Shabbir wrote. These “suicidal” terms only exist in the Zionist control media. In my country (Pure Sunni country) we call them the defender of Palestine/ Martyr/Brave to die. CNN, FOX and all media are systematically trying to tell the world “Look ..These Palestinian Muslim Arabs are attacking the Israelis civilians and Israeli is justified to go in Bethlehem, jenin, Gaza to slaughter all the Palestinians. Can’t you see what the Israelis are trying to do with the help of Zionist media??? They are butchering Palestinians and they are trying to cover it.

No! We do not hate Jews. We hate Israeli Jews that are killing Palestinians People. The Israelis are shooting babies and small children. Depriving Palestinian from every basic necessity. Water, Food, medicine and education. This has been going on since 1948. That 50 years of holocaust …oppression against the Palestinian People??!!

There is no Israeli Jewish Person in Israeli that can say I didn’t know what my Government is doing. Who vote for Sharon? Do you have any democratically elected country in the world …who have someone like the Butcher of Shatila and Shabra as the President of their country?? Only The Israeli Jews are honored to have this murderer as their president!!

The whole world knows what is happening! The only cowards are those who are letting USA and Israel massacring Palestinians. When you see a Palestinian Martyr blowing up themselves to resist Israeli forces from killing their family members…, we should honor them as martyr. They are true martyr of the highest degree.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In His Name, the Most High

Salaams

Firstly, sister Hajar, you point is well taken, but I did not immediately pick up the sword and start lashing out, if you look on Page 1 of the thread you will see that the subject was explained clearly by both Br Jondab-Ali and myself.

But I understand and appreciate your sentiment, and humbly ask for forgiveness if I have wronged anyone. It is just when I see the very martyrs of Islam being defamed in such a way my blood boils with rage. Sometimes it maybe misdirected - but generally I am correct - but as I said I humbly appolgise for any offence I may have caused.

Secondly, Excellent posts with the fatawi of the various Ulema. Alhamdu lillah.

Thirdly, Sis Zareen, you made a very good point about the state of teh "democracy" of the Zionist Entity, but something you have missed is that generally the parliament in "Israel" is a hung one, approx 45% support the Labour Party and approx 45% support the Likud party, and the remaining 10% support a myriad of parties ranging from hardcore Zionists to Reformists.

But having said that, every Israeli person is compelled to be ready for call up and indeed part of the process of getting residency is to do your miliatary service - both for men and women - and following your military service it is neccessary to be available to serve in the "ongoing battle against Palestinian Seperatists".

Therefore, every Israeli fights us, every single one kills our children (though there are small movements such as the Refuseniks and others who refuse to fight in the so-called Occupied Territories (Gaza and West Bank).

But since the believer sees the whole of Palestine (i.e. post 1948 occupation) as an occupied territory this is invalid. Though worthy of mention.

The issue is not completely clear cut to a western observer, and indeed to a Muslim who's sole source of Information is CNN, BBC, and the other Zionist and Imperialist Media Agencies.

It is for this reason, we, as Muslims must always treat what we hear/read/see in the Zionist and Imperialist Press and Media as dubious, until ratified by an authentic source, such as IRNA, IRIB, al-Manar TV (note Kuwait, Saudi, Bahrain, Sudanese, Al Jazeera are not authentic news services - they are in teh service of their masters who are based out of occupied Til Abeeb (Tel Aviv) and from the White House (of Cards).

I felt it was important to point this out.

Once again, if I have offended anyone (except Zionists ;)) then I am sorry and appologise sincerely (as for the Zionists I have offended - tough!! Leave Palestine and we'll talk :P)

With Salaams and Dua's

Shabbir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sallam,

You don't like it - fine ban me.

I am no moderator here brother and i do not intend to ban you even if i was.Talking about weak faith,i doubt you know an ounce of what my faith consists of.I hate the israelites as much as any other true muslim.I do not like getting into such arguements that lead to oh my faith is more stronger then yours or that you are under the control of zionist networks.Cnn ,ted turner,nbc watever i dont give a damn to tell the truth.Plus im usually watching football on tv rather then cnn.and if i had a weak faith i wouldnt be here half the time defending the shia community and actually saying that yes in alot of matters you ppl do have a point.I wouldve been with the ignorant people mocking you and giving a blind eye to whatever proof u put forth.Im sure maybe your faith is stronger then mine im just a 17 year old kid trying to make a small difference.thnk you peer sahab for the encouragement and backup.

sallam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In His Name, the Most High

Salaams

Chill bro, chill - LOL

Like I said, if you are not following the CNNified Islam, then why is it getting to you so much?

Also, you say:

and if i had a weak faith i wouldnt be here half the time defending the shia community and actually saying that yes in alot of matters you ppl do have a point

You people?? Does this mean that you are not from the believers?

Also listen bro, why are you taking this so personally? Did I even mention you in my first post on this subject(see page 1)? I don't think so. I was merely clearing up an item of confusion.

If you read my 1st post on this subject and the post by Br Jondab-Ali, you'll know that we made no attack on anyone.

With all due respect, you may take some time out from "watching football" and read my posts before you reply and sound all irate.

There's a saying by Imam Ali(A) - I'm not saying it applies to you brother, but lets just say its food for thought:

Often your utterances and expressions of your face leak out the secrets of your hidden thoughts.

Also, I have never judged your faith or that of anyone else. I have simply said that calling Martyrdom Operatives "Suicide Bombers" - is the work of someone following a CNNified Islam.

My meaning in this statement since it is apparent that most people don't seem to understand me and I have to spell every little thing out is the following:

Those people who know the truth, know that Islam is the right way, but insist on calling those people who they know are under extreme pressure in occupied Palestine and are making martyrdom operations, those people who insist, AFTER KNOWING AND/OR BEING TOLD THE TRUTH, on still repeatedly calling them suicide bombers - or likening their action to that of suicide - which incidently is the lowest form of death - whereas in fact martyrdom is the highest form (Go read the Martyr By Ayatullah Shaheed Mutahhari(A)) - are those people who have been hoodwinked (or are deliberately) following the Islam of American/Satan which can also be called a CNNified Islam.

This is all I am saying. If you do not fall into this group of people, then whats the problem bro?

If I'm not talking about you - cuz you're not like this - then chill. Why the paranoia that I'm talking about you?

At the end of the day my brother, its good that you are interested in Islam and having Islamic discussions - insha Allah we will all benefit from you. Amen.

I have not judged anyone, and it is not my place to judge anyone, I have merely made an observation based on emperical evidence provided within the context of this thread. Simple.

With Salaams and Dua's

Shabbir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aslamo 3alikum,

should this question be really asked ??? :huh:

ofcourse it is not allowed to kill innocents...

On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. (Quran 5:32 )

Killing innocents is just like killing the whole humanity.... it is simple..

--------

Above sister Hajar has provided the fatawas which says that it is allowed to attack the enemies of Islam in that particular way (by tying a bomb round your waist....) is allowed.... but ofcourse killing the innocents isn't allowed ...

ma'salama

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In His Name, the Most High

Salaams

Thank you for your clarification.

Firstly you said:

by innocent people i mean the people who live in peace in israel. they have nothing to do with the palestanians.

As I have elucidated previously, there is not a single "Israeli" civilian in existance. This is a fact, if you look at the constitution of the Zionist Entity, every person who wishes to reside there has to do the following:

1/ Have military service for 3 years (for men) or 2 years (for women) following which they have to be available for service at anytime. Therefore by that definition every "Israeli" is a military person.

2/ They are required to live on occupied land, meaning that if they have a "home" in the land commonly called "Israel" - they are living on land that is stolen from Palestinians at one point in time (it is stolen either by coercian, or by violence).

Therefore by this definition, the only innocent people in what you call "Israel", but what should in reality be called Occupied Palestine are the Palestinians.

Now onto your second clarification:

by suiside i mean the people blowing themselves and they kill innocent people.

This is the standard modus operandi of recent times of the Palestinain Resistance Fighters, and as explained previously should not be refered to as suicide as it is insulting to call a martyrdom operative a suicide bomber.

The Marytrdom operatives have an uncannily high level of believe, and are on a mission to free their land from an unjust occupation, when they blow themselves up - they know they are going to take out at least one Zionist person, and since by definition we know they are all military personal and hence are terrorists by the Islamic definition it is just to make these operations against them.

I hope this clarifies your situation.

Now taking your initial statement, is it just for someone innocent to be killed by suicide - let me explain the statement - is it just for someone innocent (i.e. a Palestinian person in Occupied Palestine) to be killed by a suicide operation (an Israeli military operation in which teh Zionist gets killed) then yes definately this is wrong.

But if you mean in the context of the operations commonly called "suicide operations" or "suicide bombings" by the Zionist and Imperialist Media, then definately they are allowed, since they are committed in an environment of oppression against an occupying force by an oppressed and repressed people - who are exploding with the force to liberate their land, which also includes the third most holy place in Islam, Masjed al-Aqsa in Bayt al-Maqdis.

My brother, with all due respect, I would suggest reading all the posts since the bulk of this is repetition from previous posts on this thread.

Another piece of advise, do not become a victim of the Zionist and Imperialist media language of CNN, BBC, etc, who are all agents of the Global Zionists and Imperialists who's aim it is to destroy the legitimate resistance movement of Palestine, and who pray that it is pacified as was the resistance of the American Indians in mainland Occupied America.

In order to learn more about this whole concept, I would suggest that you either watch or read (or both), the speech of the Secretary General of Hizbullah, Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah(HA) on the subject of this so-called "War on Terror" as announced by Bush the Son.

We have made it available as an online video and as a translation:

1/ Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah(HA) - The War On Terror (Text, English Translation)

2/ Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah(HA) - The War On Terror (Video Feed, with English and French Subtitles)

I hope that insha Allah this enables you to move away from using terminology that is the terminology of Satan and his Allies, and that you move towards a better and more powerful understanding of the truth regarding the situation of our beloved Brothers and Sisters in Occupied Palestine, and that you see the American and Zionist Administration for the animals that they are.

With Salaams and Dua's

Shabbir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In His Name, the Most High

Salaams

Br Salmany, it is obvious that either your comprehension level in English is low, or that you blatently do not read what I post in its entirity.

I will quote the exact passage and then describe the concept of a rhetorical question.

Firstly the quote:

Br Salmany Said:and if i had a weak faith i wouldnt be here half the time defending the shia community and actually saying that yes in alot of matters you ppl do have a point.

Note this is something you yourself said. Note the portion I have highlighted in bold in the quote above (no not the Br Salmany Said: bit the second bit in bold which states you ppl do have a point) this is a quote from your message.

Based upon this statement, and your calling the believers as "you ppl" - I asked the following rhetorical question:

You people?? Does this mean that you are not from the believers?

It is a rhetorical question. Meaning it doesn't require an answer - I know that it was nothing more than a slip of the keyboard. I know that you do not mean "you people" in the sense that is implied in the message - which is that "you people" are different to "us ppl" - try and understand and stop being so petty brother.

I mean - sheesh - you cannot dispute what I say so you go and pick on a tiny point which I have made which is based on a Freudian slip made by you?

Sort yourself out bro. LOL.

Always keep the sayings of Imam Ali(A) at the forefront of your mind (probably a good idea to stop watching football for an hour or so and try and learn the sayings of Imam Ali(A), might do you some good bro - you can find them here:

Sayings of Imam Ali(A) from Nahjul Balagha

I hope that this helps you, maybe it will enable you to read people's posts and other articles in their entirity which is very important before even contemplating replying them.

Also always be aware of your innermost thoughts comming out as per the saying of Imam Ali(A):

Often your utterances and expressions of your face leak out the secrets of your hidden thoughts.

With Salaams and Dua's

Shabbir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

lol ok...ur a funny guy..as for the sayings of hazrat Ali...i wud love to give em a look...but i would rather prefer that of the Prophet (SAW).

sallam brother

ps no harm intended ... :) lets say a truce?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still don’t understand how we can term the Israelis citizen/oppressor as peace loving civilians who just want to leave peaceful in Israeli. They don’t have this right to claim what isn’t theirs. Do you think because ..Its 50 years later… that means the ownership is transferred to them (the Israelis)?

How can anyone forget…how they shipped out our Palestinian Brothers, sisters and children and they imported millions of Jew to take everything that belongs to the Palestinians.

Palestinian People until today live in humiliating situations inside camps ….

I don’t agree with forgiving any of them if they didn’t return back what they stole from the people of Palestinians and their inheritors.

….If Sayyida Fatima Az-Zahra wanted to forgive Abu Bakar and Umar for the things that they did to her and her family..she could ..She was very forgiving and merciful and a very upright, truthful and a humble lady. But she didn’t forgive any of them until the day she died. They wanted to keep her lands and the leadership of the Muslim Ummah and yet wanted her forgiveness without returning back her lands or the leadership to her husband. That isn’t possible. Where is the sincerity in such actions?

We can’t waver in this issue. The Israelis do not become civilians or citizen of Palestine’s ..never..ever. They will always be known as occupiers and oppressors. It doesn’t matter after many years have passed…Doesn’t matter if the buildings are tall now..regardless of the huge investments …..what has been ignored by most of us is that the Israelis can never become civilians. They are not entitled to it..at least not in Palestine.

Maybe in New York Jews, Muslims or Christians can be civilians....but never in Palestine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sallam

A day will come when all these people will know and see the truth.Then theyll look at us muslims and say y did we do this to them.Thtll be the day... until that day these unbelievers will never learn... just let imam mahdi come well sort all of them out ... sallam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...