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Iluv2XLR8

Shias believe in Incomplete quran.

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Thanks brother Abdul Hujjah.

As I said, MOST shias believe in the completeness of Qur'an, and that it is protected by Allah (SWT). Now xlrh8, why not address those sahih hadith? Instead of just coming in here making accusations without a shred of proof to back it up. What one person may or may not have said in this forum is NOT proof.... unless you're now takin lessons from Said... which I would hope even you are above doing.

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by the way that sermon of Umar (ra) is not there. on pages 209-210. know what hadith number it is?

until then...how can you believe the quran is incomplete?

thats truly absurd! can anyone be worse than the qadians?

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can anyone be worse than the qadians?

Yes-

Every Non Shia :!!!:

And that includes YOU :!!!:

Edited by poiuyt

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but im pretty sure all believe the quran is incomplete. tsk tsk tsk.

Your beliefs are equal to that of a dead donkey- Irrelevant. :D

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by the way that sermon of Umar (ra) is not there. on pages 209-210. know what hadith number it is?

until then...how can you believe the quran is incomplete?

thats truly absurd! can anyone be worse than the qadians?

(bismillah)

Which version do you have ??

What happened to the missing quran verses mentioned by umar and ayesha ? :rolleyes:

salaama

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Thats ur beliefs piouty...u testified a while ago.

Quote me then....

Besides , if as you claim, we shia are 'kafir', why you here for?

You're not 'one of us'?

So why not clear off to your KFC site full of fitnah and play there with your bidah and taravi?

Or dont they keep you entertained for long enough without TV because you live with uncle Osama in the Afghan caves???

:!!!:

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Point is shias believe in an incomplete...quran and should be labelled as kafirs.

(bismillah)

If someone believes the quran is incomplete they are kaffirs then umar and ayesha are kaffirs cause they have these beliefs, agree ??

We dont believe the Quran is incomplete, and we are shias, are you gonna tell us what our beliefs are ???

Salaama

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Iluv2xlr8 that person you are refering to Qizilbash is not a muslim he is one of those Alevi so that try to make Quran fit what they believe you can't compare them to our shia brother and sisters.

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Point is shias believe in an incomplete...quran and should be labelled as kafirs.

So now you admit to calling Shias kafir eh?

Bro Abdulhujjah- thats against the rules/policy of Shiachat.

He should be banned for such racist and blatant abuse toward us- :mad:

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I second that vote of brother poiuyt.

Belief of Shia in the Completeness of Quran

A Wahhabi contributor mentioned that Shia believe Quran is not complete.

My answer to this matter is:

"Glory to (Allah), this is a big slander! (Quran 24:16)."

Shia do NOT believe that Quran is missing something. There are few weak

traditions which * might * imply to the contrary. Such reports are rejected

and unacceptable if they want to imply such a thing.

It is interesting to point out that there are numerous traditions reported

in Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim which allege that many verses of Quran

are missing. Not only that, but also they these Sunni reports allege that

two chapters from the Quran are missing one of them was similar to chapter

9 (al-Bara'ah) in length!!! Some Sunni traditions even claim that the

Chapter al-Ahzab (Ch. 33) was as lengthy as the Chapter of Cow (Ch. 2)!!!

The Chapter of Cow is the biggest Chapter of the present Quran. The

traditions inside Sahih al-Bukhari and Muslim even present some of the

missing verses. (Some of these traditions will be mentioned in the

following articles with full references.). Yet, fortunately Shia never

accuse the Sunni brothers and sisters of believing that the Quran is

incomplete. We say that either these Sunni reports are either weak or

fabricated.

The completeness of Quran is so indisputable among Shia that the greatest

scholar of Shia in Hadith, Abu Jafar Muhammad Ibn Ali Ibn al-Husain Ibn

Babwayh, known as "Shaykh Saduq" (309/919-381/991), wrote:

"Our belief is that the Quran which Allah revealed to His Prophet

Muhammad is (the same as) the one between the two covers (daffatayn).

And it is the one which is in the hands of the people, and is not

greater in extent than that. The number of surahs as generally

accepted is one hundred and fourteen ...And he who asserts that we say

that it is greater in extent than that, is a liar."

Shi'i reference: Shi'ite Creed (al-I'tiqadat al-Imamiyyah), by Shaykh

Saduq, English version, p77.

It should be noted that Shaykh Saduq (ra) is the greatest scholar of Hadith

among the Imami Shia and was given the name of Shaykh al-Muhaddithin (i.e.,

the most eminent of the scholars of Hadith). And since he wrote the above

in a book with the name of "The beliefs of the Imami Shia," it is quite

impossible that there could be any authentic Hadith in contrary to it.

It is noteworthy that Shaykh Saduq lived at the time of minor occultation

of Imam Mahdi (as) and he was one of the earliest Shia scholars. He had the

honor that he was born with the prayer of Imam Mahdi (as).

Another prominent Shia scholar is Allama Muhammad Ridha Mudhaffar who wrote

in his Shia Creed book that:

"We believe that the Holy Quran is revealed by Allah through the Holy

Prophet of Islam dealing with every thing which is necessary for the

guidance of mankind. It is an everlasting miracle of the Holy Prophet

the like of which can not be produced by human mind. It excels in its

eloquence, clarity, truth and knowledge. This Divine Book has not been

tampered with by any one. This Holy Book which we recite today is the

same Holy Quran which was revealed to the Holy Prophet. Any one who

^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^

claims it to be otherwise is an evil-doer, a mere sophist, or else he

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

is sadly mistaken. All of those who have this line of thinking have

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

gone astray as Allah in Quran said: "Falsehood can not reach the Quran

from any direction (41:42)"

- Shi'i reference: The Beliefs of Shi'ite School, by Muhammad Ridha

Mudhaffar, English version, pp 50-51

Sayyid al-Murtadha, another prominent Shi'ite Scholar said:

"... our certainty of the completeness of the Quran is like our

certainty of the existence of countries or major events that are self

evident. Motives and reasons for recording and guarding the Holy Quran

are numerous. Because the Quran is a miracle of the Prophethood and

the source of Islamic Knowledge and religious rule, their concern with

the Quran made the Muslim Scholars highly efficient concerning

grammar, its reading, and its verses."

With this various concern by the most eminent Shia scholars, there is

no possibility that the Quran was added or deleted in some parts.

Besides what Allah mentioned in Quran about its protection, we can use our

logic to derive the same result. Allah sent his last Messenger to show

people (to the end of the time) His Right Path. Therefore if Allah does not

preserve His message, He would be contradicting His own aim. Obviously,

such negligence is evil according to reason. Thus, in essence, Allah

preserves His message as He preserved Moses in the house of His Enemy,

Pharaoh.

May Allah Bless Muhammad and his pure Ahlul-Bayt.

http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/

Edited by Aliya

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if im not mistakened...i remember a post..taht was by Zakkunak or someone...which asked in a post why are sunnis kafir to the shias...and the response was ...i think it was by abdul hujjah who said because the prophet saw left 2 things quran and ahlebait...and sunnis don tfollow ahlebait thus making us kafirs...so dont start whining.

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(bismillah)

Its a bad idea to ban him, this guy is the best answer for all the salafi loving shias, he exposes the real feelings that these guy have for us, I would like all the bakri loving shias to see this.

Unless you can show me a rule where iit says u cant say shia are kaffir.

Wassalaam

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Bro Abdulhujjah and every other moderator-

You have rules to this site and punishments for breaching them.

This guy has blatantly throughout this thread called Shias kafir, and more than once.

If you dont/wont/cant reprimand him, i suggest the rules to this site be thrown out-

They are irrelevant if this nasibi can slander at will and nothing is done.

Is that what you want for this site to be? A trash-can for non shia lies and abuse?

I certainly dont-

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"2a) Disrespect to any Mujtahid, Marja' Taqleed, or religious authority will not be tolerated whatsoever. "

"B) Due to previous experience in this site with respect to the above rule, any topics which the moderators agree on to be of controversial nature and would lead to destructive debates and disunity amongst the Ummah will NOT be allowed on this forum. Members who do not abide by this rule would have their post locked/deleted followed by a warning/ban if they do not comply. "

"Any attack by anyone towards any of the faiths will not be allowed "

Now kindly ban him.

Edited by poiuyt

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Listen ILUV...the sunnis can say that the shia believe that the Quran is not complete. The shia's can say the same, both parties accuse each other from picking up hadiths from each others books...so where do we stand!!!!

Well I know what answering -islam would say about it..SO LETS HAVE SOME DIGNITY AND DROP THE SUBJECT!!!!!!!!!! There are some subjects that we can argue over and others for the sake of Allah and his most honourable book we must not discuss or accuse each others beliefs over!!!!

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