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Qizilbash

Matam and Tatbir

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Fatwa of al-Sheikh Abdul kareem al-Ha'ery -founder of the current Hawzahin the holy city of Qum

"The hitting of swords on the heads (causing bleedings) is alright (allowed) provided there is no harm to the person doing this. Furthermore no one has the right to prohibit this (hitting the head with sword). In fact all kinds of TA'ZIAH-mourning-for SAYYID AL-SHUHADA'-Imam Husayn- may our sould be sacrificed for him, are MUSTAHAB-desirable deeds".

Fatwa of al-Sheik Muhammad Husayn al-Naa'ini- 'Ustadhul-'Ulema of the holy city of Najaf

"There is no doubt as to the permissibilty of the beating of the chest and the face with the hands to the point of redness or blackness (of the chest or the face). This is also extended to the lashing of the shoulders and the back with chains to the extent mentioned (aove), and even if this led to bleeding. As for causing the bleeding of the head by sword beating, this is also allowed provided it does not lead to endangering harm, such as unstoppable bleeding or harm to the scull, etc. as it is known amongst the experts in doing this (hitting on the head).

Fatwa of Ayatollah al-Udhma al-sayyid al-Kho'i- the former leader of the Hawzah of the holy city of Najaf

Question: Is there any problem with causing the bleeding of the head-TATBIR-as it is practiced, to express one's grief about the martydom of our Imam Husayn peace be upon him, assuming there is going to be no permanent harm?

Answer: There is no problem with that, given the assumption made in the question, and Allah knows best.

Question: You stated that there is no problem in causing the bleeding of the head-knwon as tatbir-if it does not lead to harm. It is said that it is not more than a permissible act, then can Tatbir be Mustahab-desirable-if the intention was the upholding and honouring the Sha'a'er-signs of Allah- and sympathy with the Ahlulbayt, alayhum -as-salam?

Answer: Most probbaly Allah Almighty would give thawab-reward (the individual)- for sympathising with the Ahlulbayt alayhum-as-salam if the intention is sincere.

Fatwa of Ayatollah al-Udhma al-sayyid al-seestani-current leader of the Hawzah of the Holy city of Najaf

Question: What is the rulling regarding the lashing with chains, chest beating, and walking on fire on the occasion of mourning the martyrdom of Imam Husayn peace be upon him?

Answer: If (these are) not associated with extreme harm or loss of limb, there is no objection.

Question: What is the rulling regarding wearing black, and chest beating when commemorating the martydrom of Imam Husayn peace be upon him, as well as other infallible Imams peace be upon them?

Answer: This is permissible, and in fact this is regarded as one of the best means of seeking nearness to Allah, since it is upholding and honouring the Sha'a'er of Allah Almighty.

Fatwa of Ayatollah al-udhma al-sayyid Muhammad al_shirazi

"It is desirable to observe and establish all kinds of mourning programs for Imam Husayn alayhis-salam, such as weeping, chest beating, Tatbir or Qama-Zani, Husayni Majlis, etc. There is no objection to organise such programs in public and to march through the streets in full view of men and women. Also there is no objection to carry flags, standards, banners, and such like in front of the mourning processions, however, instruments of music may not be used".

Now my dear brothers and sister who love Imam Husayn (as) and practice Tawalla, may I request from you to respect those who observe Matam in various forms and try avoding debates regarding mourning on this calamitous day. :( you might unintentiolally hurt peoples feelings :cry:

Edited by Qizilbash

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Hai merze la dwa ki dwa Mattam-e-Hussain A.S

Mushkil me behtareen dua Mattam-e-Hussain A.S

Marta hai jism roh mein hoti hai zindgi

Roh ki hai behtreen ghiza Mattam-e-Hussain A.S

Yeh ehday wafa hai taluq hai bakht hai

Meesaq me hai humnay chuna Mattam-e-Hussain A.S

Ma loriyon me noha sunati rahi mujhe

Mene to apni ma se liya Mattam-e-Hussain A.S

Roza,namaz,qhums,zakat-o-jehad-o-hajj

Yeh sb k sb amal hain, jaza Mattam-e-Hussain A.S

Aye Ashikan-e-Ale-Muhammad na chorna!

Ishq-e-Ali, namaz-e-Khuda, Mattam-e-Hussain A.S

Her mattami k ghar per zaruri hai dosto

jaye namaz, farsh-e-aza, Mattam-e-Hussain A.S

Chalti hawa ko rok saka hai bhala koi

Ab toh gali gali me hua Mattam-e-Hussain A.S

Hum khalq jb huay hain dua-e-Batool A.S se

Phr to Batool A.S se hai wafa Mattam-Hussain A.S

Pashtaye ga ye keh k jahanum me molvi

Kia kia kiya magar na kia Mattam-e-Hussain A.S

Sidra se Jibrael ne muj ko ye di khabar

Shoqat raza, Khuda ke raza Mattam-e-Hussain A.S

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Fatwa of al-Sheikh Abdul kareem al-Ha'ery -founder of the current Hawzahin the holy city of Qum

"The hitting of swords on the heads (causing bleedings) is alright (allowed) provided there is no harm to the person doing this. Furthermore no one has the right to prohibit this (hitting the head with sword). In fact all kinds of TA'ZIAH-mourning-for SAYYID AL-SHUHADA'-Imam Husayn- may our sould be sacrificed for him, are MUSTAHAB-desirable deeds".

Fatwa of al-Sheik Muhammad Husayn al-Naa'ini- 'Ustadhul-'Ulema of the holy city of Najaf

"There is no doubt as to the permissibilty of the beating of the chest and the face with the hands to the point of redness or blackness (of the chest or the face). This is also extended to the lashing of the shoulders and the back with chains to the extent mentioned (aove), and even if this led to bleeding. As for causing the bleeding of the head by sword beating, this is also allowed provided it does not lead to endangering harm, such as unstoppable bleeding or harm to the scull, etc. as it is known amongst the experts in doing this (hitting on the head).

Fatwa of Ayatollah al-Udhma al-sayyid al-Kho'i- the former leader of the Hawzah of the holy city of Najaf

Question: Is there any problem with causing the bleeding of the head-TATBIR-as it is practiced, to express one's grief about the martydom of our Imam Husayn peace be upon him, assuming there is going to be no permanent harm?

Answer: There is no problem with that, given the assumption made in the question, and Allah knows best.

Question: You stated that there is no problem in causing the bleeding of the head-knwon as tatbir-if it does not lead to harm. It is said that it is not more than a permissible act, then can Tatbir be Mustahab-desirable-if the intention was the upholding and honouring the Sha'a'er-signs of Allah- and sympathy with the Ahlulbayt, alayhum -as-salam?

Answer: Most probbaly Allah Almighty would give thawab-reward (the individual)- for sympathising with the Ahlulbayt alayhum-as-salam if the intention is sincere.

Fatwa of Ayatollah al-Udhma al-sayyid al-seestani-current leader of the Hawzah of the Holy city of Najaf

Question: What is the rulling regarding the lashing with chains, chest beating, and walking on fire on the occasion of mourning the martyrdom of Imam Husayn peace be upon him?

Answer: If (these are) not associated with extreme harm or loss of limb, there is no objection.

Question: What is the rulling regarding wearing black, and chest beating when commemorating the martydrom of Imam Husayn peace be upon him, as well as other infallible Imams peace be upon them?

Answer: This is permissible, and in fact this is regarded as one of the best means of seeking nearness to Allah, since it is upholding and honouring the Sha'a'er of Allah Almighty.

Fatwa of Ayatollah al-udhma al-sayyid Muhammad al_shirazi

"It is desirable to observe and establish all kinds of mourning programs for Imam Husayn alayhis-salam, such as weeping, chest beating, Tatbir or Qama-Zani, Husayni Majlis, etc. There is no objection to organise such programs in public and to march through the streets in full view of men and women. Also there is no objection to carry flags, standards, banners, and such like in front of the mourning processions, however, instruments of music may not be used".

Now my dear brothers and sister who love Imam Husayn (as) and practice Tawalla, may I request from you to respect those who observe Matam in various forms and try avoding debates regarding mourning on this calamitous day. sad.gif you might unintentiolally hurt peoples feelings :cry:

finally something positive from a true suni

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Bhai Kuch bhi Karlo ^^ Ye jahiliyat ka badshah hai

Nahi samjhega

Jahallit is when someone posts decades old fatwas , superceded ones and hose from dead marje. To scared to post current ones because to do would be the smack in their own faces. Yeah and we all seen Ayatullah Shirazi's site choc a block full of ancient fatwas. Why no new modern ones. Latest rulings. You are only demonstrating your own jahallit

bt to theek he

boring when you cant debate me you switch languages. Do you think your Jahillat isnt obvious in the Urdu language as well

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Now my dear brothers and sister who love Imam Husayn (as) and practice Tawalla, may I request from you to respect those who observe Matam in various forms and try avoding debates regarding mourning on this calamitous day. sad.gif you might unintentiolally hurt peoples feelings :cry:

It specifies a specific day and I presume this is the 10th of moharram. So lets not abuse this ruling in order to silence debate on halal and haram. blood letting is not matam by the way

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Jahallit is when someone posts decades old fatwas , superceded ones and hose from dead marje. To scared to post current ones because to do would be the smack in their own faces. Yeah and we all seen Ayatullah Shirazi's site choc a block full of ancient fatwas. Why no new modern ones. Latest rulings. You are only demonstrating your own jahallit

boring when you cant debate me you switch languages. Do you think your Jahillat isnt obvious in the Urdu language as well

so my friend here doesnt want old fatwas....as a matter of fact friend islam is also an old religion ...y dont u find a new one which suits your needs

u r indeed a true alumari some people just cant bear respect

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so my friend here doesnt want old fatwas....as a matter of fact friend islam is also an old religion ...y dont u find a new one which suits your needs

u r indeed a true alumari some people just cant bear respect

If you want to stick to 'old religion' you shouldnt do blood letting at all since this only a 200 year old practice. However out of deference to the educated scholars I thought it only fair to ask blood letters for up to date fatwas not decades old ones. Is the reason you only post decades old ones is because most living Marje have either banned it or put severe restrictions on blood letting.

Consistency please. If you want 'old religion' stop blood letting. If you want 'new religion' then bring your new fatwas.

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If you want to stick to 'old religion' you shouldnt do blood letting at all since this only a 200 year old practice. However out of deference to the educated scholars I thought it only fair to ask blood letters for up to date fatwas not decades old ones. Is the reason you only post decades old ones is because most living Marje have either banned it or put severe restrictions on blood letting.

Consistency please. If you want 'old religion' stop blood letting. If you want 'new religion' then bring your new fatwas.

Just look at the tough guy here...... r u familiar with the name Hazrat Awais Qarni a.s ?.... now u would say He is from the 21st century.....ALUMARIIIII

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Just look at the tough guy here...... r u familiar with the name Hazrat Awais Qarni a.s ?.... now u would say He is from the 21st century.....ALUMARIIIII

So tell me since you are so familiar with Hazrat Awais Qarni (ra). Why do no Shia books report of him breaking his teeth. In fact Shia narrations of him at Janj e Sifeen do not report broken teeth.

In fact the only reports of broken teeth are from Sunni sources and even amongst Sunnis this narration is now disputed because it suggests that the Holy Prophet had a facial disfigurement. In some Sunni viewpoints disfigurement of the Holy Prophet (pbuhahp) is not possible since he (pbuhahp) is the most perfect of creation.

So my challenge to you stands. old religion or new religion ??

And of course we are looking for examples of ritualistic slashing and cutting of the body. I repeatedly ask you guys to know your stuff before posting garbage on here but you repeatedly prove your ignorance

Edited by A true Sunni

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So tell me since you are so familiar with Hazrat Awais Qarni (ra). Why do no Shia books report of him breaking his teeth. In fact Shia narrations of him at Janj e Sifeen do not report broken teeth.

In fact the only reports of broken teeth are from Sunni sources and even amongst Sunnis this narration is now disputed because it suggests that the Holy Prophet had a facial disfigurement. In some Sunni viewpoints disfigurement of the Holy Prophet (pbuhahp) is not possible since he (pbuhahp) is the most perfect of creation.

So my challenge to you stands. old religion or new religion ??

And of course we are looking for examples of ritualistic slashing and cutting of the body. I repeatedly ask you guys to know your stuff before posting garbage on here but you repeatedly prove your ignorance

go do some research and come back ......the baby just needs feeder again with a tap on his back ..............ALUMARIIII....no use arguing with the garbage-face

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go do some research and come back ......the baby just needs feeder again with a tap on his back ..............ALUMARIIII....no use arguing with the garbage-face

Already done it. If you say there is a Shia source for this then post it. Looks like you need to go back to school. your fellow malangs will probably PM and tell you not to go down this route lol. There isnt any narration in any Shia books. Looks like you malangs are closet Sunnis.

So my challenge to you

provide a Shia source for Hz Avais Qarni breaking his teeth

Provide up to date fatwas for blood letting not decades old ones

Edited by A true Sunni

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Already done it. If you say there is a Shia source for this then post it. Looks like you need to go back to school. your fellow malangs will probably PM and tell you not to go down this route lol. There isnt any narration in any Shia books. Looks like you malangs are closet Sunnis.

So my challenge to you

provide a Shia source for Hz Avais Qarni breaking his teeth

Provide up to date fatwas for blood letting not decades old ones

take the fatwas against tatbir in your grave buddy i dont want to get nijs by arguing with u its totally worthless ....even after the proof u wont accept it as your heart and mind is stamped .......... just one word for u Alumari

me q naam le kr kru muh ko ganda

falanay, falanay, falanay pe lanat

umaiyyah k pooray gharanay pe lanat :yaali:

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take the fatwas against tatbir in your grave buddy i dont want to get nijs by arguing with u its totally worthless ....even after the proof u wont accept it as your heart and mind is stamped .......... just one word for u Alumari

me q naam le kr kru muh ko ganda

falanay, falanay, falanay pe lanat

umaiyyah k pooray gharanay pe lanat :yaali:

so to summarise your statement .

You are saying you have no proof that hz Owas Qarni ever broke his teeth from Shia sources

You are saying that you have no fatwas from living Marje (apart from Shirazi and possibly one other) unequivacally supporting blood letting.

Hmm sort of makes a mockery of your knowledge and your practices.

I am surprised that you haven't drowned yourself in shame.

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Sorry I have not got that much time at the moment, just leaving to attend a majaalis.

But when asking about current fatwas, whilst I do not have a fatwa I do have a very strong action on the part of a mujtahid which shows the permissibility of tatbir from their accord.

On Ashura, I was fortunate enough to be present in Kerbala. As many will know, Ayatullah Seestani has control over the harams in Kerbala and Najaf. Whilst in Kerbala, leading up to the day of Ashura and on the day itself the facilitation of blood matam was for sure done within the proximity of the haram, eg. plastic sheets across the courtyard, new carpets and sand which were removed as soon as blood letting in the courtyard stopped.

Between Fajr from as soon as namaz finished until azaan of Zohr, blood matam was faciliated in both harams infront of my own eyes. If it was as such that Ayatullah Seestani and those scholars in charge of the haram did not allow it, why would they allow it inside the haram on the day of Ashura?

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Sorry I have not got that much time at the moment, just leaving to attend a majaalis.

But when asking about current fatwas, whilst I do not have a fatwa I do have a very strong action on the part of a mujtahid which shows the permissibility of tatbir from their accord.

On Ashura, I was fortunate enough to be present in Kerbala. As many will know, Ayatullah Seestani has control over the harams in Kerbala and Najaf. Whilst in Kerbala, leading up to the day of Ashura and on the day itself the facilitation of blood matam was for sure done within the proximity of the haram, eg. plastic sheets across the courtyard, new carpets and sand which were removed as soon as blood letting in the courtyard stopped.

Between Fajr from as soon as namaz finished until azaan of Zohr, blood matam was faciliated in both harams infront of my own eyes. If it was as such that Ayatullah Seestani and those scholars in charge of the haram did not allow it, why would they allow it inside the haram on the day of Ashura?

Amazing the number of Malangs who never seem to have bothered to get a fatwa but are so strident that Ayatullah Sistani allows it on hearsay evidence !!

It is not enough to quote hearsay evidence. In this modern age a written fatwa will be considered evidence. I am not party to the administrative/management of the Harrams and none of the malangs I have spoken to are either but they all confidently tell me 'well it must be so'

protestations of 'well it must be so' arent good enough. Your cooperation in supplying a recent date stamped fatwa would be appreciated.

If you are UK based you can phone Agha Kashmiri's (Ayatullah Sistani's UK representative) office in London and speak to him directly. He will confirm that Ayatullah Sistani does not allow it because it brings Islam into disrepute.

If you havent got his number I will get it for you.

I await your feedback after you have phoned him :)

Edited by A true Sunni

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so to summarise your statement .

You are saying you have no proof that hz Owas Qarni ever broke his teeth from Shia sources

You are saying that you have no fatwas from living Marje (apart from Shirazi and possibly one other) unequivacally supporting blood letting.

Hmm sort of makes a mockery of your knowledge and your practices.

I am surprised that you haven't drowned yourself in shame.

oooo look who is talking......................... as i have addressed u now i have to take a ghusal......ALUMARI........LANAT ON THE THIEFS OF BAGH-E-FIDAQ

Sorry I have not got that much time at the moment, just leaving to attend a majaalis.

But when asking about current fatwas, whilst I do not have a fatwa I do have a very strong action on the part of a mujtahid which shows the permissibility of tatbir from their accord.

On Ashura, I was fortunate enough to be present in Kerbala. As many will know, Ayatullah Seestani has control over the harams in Kerbala and Najaf. Whilst in Kerbala, leading up to the day of Ashura and on the day itself the facilitation of blood matam was for sure done within the proximity of the haram, eg. plastic sheets across the courtyard, new carpets and sand which were removed as soon as blood letting in the courtyard stopped.

Between Fajr from as soon as namaz finished until azaan of Zohr, blood matam was faciliated in both harams infront of my own eyes. If it was as such that Ayatullah Seestani and those scholars in charge of the haram did not allow it, why would they allow it inside the haram on the day of Ashura?

bro this alumari needs someone to talk so he finds different ways to talk......such a lonely guy

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oooo look who is talking......................... as i have addressed u now i have to take a ghusal......ALUMARI........LANAT ON THE THIEFS OF BAGH-E-FIDAQ

bro this alumari needs someone to talk so he finds different ways to talk......such a lonely guy

In summary you are saying you have no answers but you will continue because your forefathers did it before you lol. The Ahlul Bait are the font of knowledge and Akhlaq. How can people who claim to be their followers have fallen so low.

All these copy and paste jihadists. You question them and they fall apart

Edited by A true Sunni

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Br. True Sunni, where did I say I had not bothered to get a fatwa?

The fact is you have been presented with several fatwa and you have said those are not current, on the basis of this they do not suffice. In this case I went forward with another proof as to it being permissible. In fact, I myself was there as said and it is not hearsay that tatbir took place inside the haram, because infront of my eyes I saw it and I can send a video if this does not suffice.

You have acknowledged that in the past marjaa's have allowed the act but currently they are said to be impermissible, I ask you to bring forward a written fatwa confirming this, bear in mind that the question should not lean towards the wanted answer, in fact it should just be, what is your ruling on tatbir?

I do not make a habit of arguing for the actions I and many others do, infact I feel the discussion is a complete waste of time. I have presented a single proof as to it being deemed permissible by certain scholars, if you can bring forward a fatwa from Ayatullah Seestani from an unbiased question deeming it haram then I for one will respect the ruling and abide by it.

For those who constantly bring this debate about regarding Tatbir, the same way we look at talking ill and the bad traits of the so called Sahabis as something that should not be discussed due to the way it brings fitna and 'disunites the ummah', the discussion of zanjeer is one which disunites the Shia ummah and thus I think time can be spent working together on bigger and more relevant issues.

Nonetheless if you are saying that it has been stated as haram, please prove such a fatwa and as I said I will respect and abide by the rule.

Thank you

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Br. True Sunni, where did I say I had not bothered to get a fatwa?

The fact is you have been presented with several fatwa and you have said those are not current, on the basis of this they do not suffice. In this case I went forward with another proof as to it being permissible. In fact, I myself was there as said and it is not hearsay that tatbir took place inside the haram, because infront of my eyes I saw it and I can send a video if this does not suffice.

You have acknowledged that in the past marjaa's have allowed the act but currently they are said to be impermissible, I ask you to bring forward a written fatwa confirming this, bear in mind that the question should not lean towards the wanted answer, in fact it should just be, what is your ruling on tatbir?

I do not make a habit of arguing for the actions I and many others do, infact I feel the discussion is a complete waste of time. I have presented a single proof as to it being deemed permissible by certain scholars, if you can bring forward a fatwa from Ayatullah Seestani from an unbiased question deeming it haram then I for one will respect the ruling and abide by it.

For those who constantly bring this debate about regarding Tatbir, the same way we look at talking ill and the bad traits of the so called Sahabis as something that should not be discussed due to the way it brings fitna and 'disunites the ummah', the discussion of zanjeer is one which disunites the Shia ummah and thus I think time can be spent working together on bigger and more relevant issues.

Nonetheless if you are saying that it has been stated as haram, please prove such a fatwa and as I said I will respect and abide by the rule.

Thank you

I have posted it before from Ayatullah Sistani but malangs on here said it was a forgery and it was the work of anti-blood letters. So that is why I now say phone his representative in the UK and you can satisfy yourself on this matter and cross examine him. He is Urdu speaking so if you dont speak Urdu it might pose a problem. You can then satisfy yourself on his rulings without this excuse of 'oh it was a loaded question', 'oh its a forgery'

So you see the problem.

Malangs post decades old fatwas

present manipulated fatwas (azadari4Imam)

reject current stamped fatwas from Ayatullah Sistani claiming they are forgeries.

reject other fatwas claiming questions are loaded.

You would think in all this time the malangs would have produced a stamped recent fatwa allowing it so they could counter all these loaded question fatwas and forged fatwas. Strange that

So if you are a genuine seeker of the truth I have given you a solution phone his representative simple really. That is if you are genuine.

Dont forget to feed back to to everyone the results of your conversation. Infact ask him if the disputed fatwa is genuine !!

But expect to make yourself very unpopular with malangs

As to blood letting in the Harams you would need to prove that they strictly adhere to just Ayatullah Sistanis rulings or allow it on the grounds that a couple of Marje (notably Ayatullah Shirazi) allows it.

You are assuming he is a dictator of what happens in the Harams. It is more likely he has a guardianship role. Guardianship on behalf of all Shias

Edited by A true Sunni

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Br True Sunni, I understand what others may say about the fatwa's you have posted, if you could even link me to one of the discussions where you have uploaded this fatwa it would be appreciated.

In the case of speaking to Agha Kashmiri, I don't really like the idea of going through representatives of those who are already representatives but nonetheless over a week ago I emailed two simple questions, not even more than 10words in each and received the reply for 1 within a day, the other question that I have not received the reply for is (What is Ayatullah Seestani's ruling on tatbir?). This slow response makes me wonder about the organisation of the office representing Ayatullah Seestani here in the UK.

The most recent fatwa I read from ayatullah Seestani and in fact many marjaa's was if it gives a bad image to Islam it is impermissible, is there one which is more current than this?

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so answer the questions. Why do you malangs always resort to name calling when you havent an answer. It sort of makes a mockery of everything you believe in

coz u r not worth giving answer ....................ALUMARI.......... LANAT ON THE ONE WHO CRIED IN THE CAVE.....

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Br True Sunni, I understand what others may say about the fatwa's you have posted, if you could even link me to one of the discussions where you

The most recent fatwa I read from ayatullah Seestani and in fact many marjaa's was if it gives a bad image to Islam it is impermissible, is there one which is more current than this?

This is the fatwa that I am talking about. You have received the fatwa independently of any outside interference. This is the fatwa that a lot of malangs on this site are claiming is forged because it is not on his website !!.

As to the specifics of tatbir, I think the same ruling applies. If it gives Islam a bad image it is impermissible.

Question you should now ask yourself is about the credibility of Ayatullah Shirazi's site. This site has been promoting blood letting and posting misleading fatwas. Lying about Marje's position on blood letting !! . This is a disgrace in itself

coz u r not worth giving answer ....................ALUMARI.......... LANAT ON THE ONE WHO CRIED IN THE CAVE.....

So in summary you have no reply !!

You cant answer why you malangs cite Sunni Hadiths for your blood letting activities and you cant provide upto date fatwas.

It strikes me that you Malangs actually follow the Sahaba not the Ahlul Bait.

From Sunni Sources the Sahaba broke his teeth and the Ahlul Bait fought and copied the examples of the Holy Prophet exactly

You choose to ignore the Ahlul Bait and follow the Sahaba insted. Maybe you are all really Sunni Wannabees

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kid whatever u say i doesnt matters as the frog sitting on my porch doesnt matters to me........we just lanat anyone who opposes the Ahlulbait a.s including the sakeefa ones and ALL of bano umaiya.......ALUMARI......... lanat on banu umaiyya

But as I have said so may times before, it is you that is opposing the Ahlul bait. By destroying the image of Islam you destroy the message of the Ahlul Bait. So kid it looks you are sending Lanat on yourself. Banu Ommaya tried to destroy the body of the Ahlul Bait and you are destroying the message of the Ahlul Bait. Tell me who is worse in the eyes of the Ahlul Bait

It would be interesting to know what's the fatwa of Sc ayatollah karrari.

I am sure if you scrabble around long enough you might someone who will pander to the likes of you

Edited by A true Sunni

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But as I have said so may times before, it is you that is opposing the Ahlul bait. By destroying the image of Islam you destroy the message of the Ahlul Bait. So kid it looks you are sending Lanat on yourself. Banu Ommaya tried to destroy the body of the Ahlul Bait and you are destroying the message of the Ahlul Bait. Tell me who is worse in the eyes of the Ahlul Bait

I am sure if you scrabble around long enough you might someone who will pander to the likes of you

The grand ayatollah doesnt would never address alumari as it would be disrespectfull for the grand ayatollah to talk to alumari

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The grand ayatollah doesnt would never address alumari as it would be disrespectfull for the grand ayatollah to talk to alumari

Boring, with every post you reveal your ignorance. You came on here quoting narrations in an aggressive manner. When I told you the reality of your narrations you reply with abuse and mockery.

Do you really think you fool anyone with this show of bravado. You must have your fellow malangs cringing because you are an embarrassment to them

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