Shia Sunni Issues

[ILuvMuhammadSAW]

For these past couple months i dont know what to choose, Sunni or Shia and it has led me astray from my Deen a lot, to the point where ive started studying Salafi Islam and the Athari Aqidah, and, that is what i honestly am most comfortable with right now, i guess i will just label all my doubts about Shi'a Islam down below and Inshallah anyone will be able to answer them or clear them up, as for my questions about Sunni Islam i have asked elsewhere and gotten solid answers and clearing up 

1: Authenticity of the practice of Latmiyah/Shoor, im not entirely sure of where it came from and ive heard it was a cultural thing started by the Safavids, so of course im concerned its a Bid'ah and if there are any Authentic Shi'a sources saying that it is permissible to perform it as a way of mourning then let me know, also the fact that some lyrics in these are out of line, for example one saying that Maryam (عليه السلام) revered Um Al Baneen (رضي الله عنه)

2: Hand of Fatima, once again from all ive heard it is a cultural Bid'ah that has no roots in Quran, Sunnah or Hadith of any kind (Sunni or Shia) and also the fact that it is used alot by Non Muslims concerns me, if it does have any roots or mentioning in Hadith let me know

3: Re-enactments of Karbala, ive seen some ridiculous to say the least Re-enactments of Karbala (Im not trying to insult Imam Husayn (رضي الله عنه) or the Martyrs of Karbala) for example a large group of men following a horse dressed up as Abbas Ibn Ali's horse and theyre all touching it and stuff, also this thing where this guy has this large wooden thing on himself and he's spinning it around, and this group of men running around this fire thing (I will give the videos if you ask me just i dont want this forum to be too long)

4: Shrine culture and Tawwasul, pretty explainable why im questioning this

5: Imams being higher than the Prophets, it just seems totally out of line to me

6: Soil of Karbala, not prostrating on it itself is a question to me but ive heard some scholars say that eating some, which is usually forbidden to eat mud or clay, brings healing and protection, which i dont believe

7: Depictions of Ahlul Bayt, once again explainable considering ive been a Sunni most my life and absorbing their teachings and rulings

8: Shia hadith narrations, for example supposedly in Bihar Al Anwar page 125 it says that the sea is salty because the fish cried for Husayn (رضي الله عنه)

9: Carrying and making coffins of members of the 12 Imams and carrying it as if they were in a real funeral with them

10: Imam Mehdi being killed by a bearded woman, ive heard that this story is weak but still a little concerning 

I will add any other questions or narrations on when i find them or when they come to my memory but these are my main questions 

[Ashvazdanghe]

2 hours ago, ILuvMuhammadSAW said:

to the point where ive started studying Salafi Islam and the Athari Aqidah, and, that is what i honestly am most comfortable with right now,

Salam respectfully  being comfort with something doesn't mean that is truth or right thing which sometimes right thing & truth maybe uncomfortable for us because it 's against some wrong desires & misunderstanding .

Imam Ali (عليه السلام) has said :

Hadith n. 376

376. Amir al-mu'minin, peace be upon him, said: Certainly, right is weighty and wholesome while wrong is light and unwholesome.

376. وقال عليه السلام : إِنَّ الْحَقَّ ثَقِيلٌ مَرِيءٌ وَإِنَّ الْبَاطِلَ خَفِيفٌ وَبِيءٌ.

https://al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/selections-sayings-and-preaching-amir-al-muminin-ali#hadith-n-368

Doubt has also four aspects:

Quote

unreasonableness, fear, wavering and undue submission to every thing.

So, he who adopts unreasonableness as his way, for him there is no dawn after the night;

he who is afraid of what befalls him has to run on his heels;

he who wavers in doubt Satans trample him under their feet and he who submits to the destruction of this and tile next world succumbs to it.

Hadith n. 31: Faith, Unbelief, Doubt And Their Supports

https://al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/selections-sayings-and-preaching-amir-al-muminin-ali#hadith-n-368

 

 

2 hours ago, ILuvMuhammadSAW said:

1: Authenticity of the practice of Latmiyah/Shoor, im not entirely sure of where it came from and ive heard it was a cultural thing started by the Safavids, so of course im concerned its a Bid'ah and if there are any Authentic Shi'a sources saying that it is permissible to perform it as a way of mourning then let me know, also the fact that some lyrics in these are out of line, for example one saying that Maryam (عليه السلام) revered Um Al Baneen (رضي الله عنه)

This a cultural matter which is variant in different culture which it's not Bid'ah because  Bid'ah is about making distortion or innovation in principles of religion which all of your mentioned doubts don't  have any correlation to it  which generally mourning  for Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) has been recommend ; which any community is performing it based on it's culture until it's not against principles of Islam  ; which your misunderstanding comes from mixing cultural practice with principles & misreperesenting of Shias by Wahabis/Salafis based on wrong actions or saying of few weirdos or Ghulat (exaggerators) ; which in this case the  lyric  doesn't represent shia belife which all shias dont't believe to such nonsense .  

From wikishia

Quote

Bidʿa (Arabic: البدعة, lit: innovation) is adding something to, or omitting something from, religion. Bid'a stands in contrast to sunna (i.e., a practice or belief that is mentioned in the Qur'an or hadiths). In the Islamic tradition, bid'a is considered as an instance of disbelief or polytheism.

Widespread Accusations of Bid'a

Quote

Muslims have constantly disagreed as to which actions or beliefs are bid'a. As Averroes states, each Muslim sect accuses the others of bid'a; for instance, Wahhabis consider Muslim philosophers, Shiites, Mu'tazilites, Ash'arites, and Kharijites innovators, and Ash'arites regard as innovators Mu'tazilites, Shiites, and Batinis.^[21] Ibn Taymiyya is said to have accused others of bid'a more than any other Muslim scholar. He regarded any act or belief whose basis he could not find in the Qur'an or the sunna of the Prophet (s) or Companions as bid'a. ^[22]

Among the practices that are considered by Twelver Shiites to be bid'a are takattuf (placing one hand on the other during prayer), the congregational Tarawih prayer,^[23] saying "amin" in prayer after the recitation of al-Fatiha,^[24] and divorcing one's wife three times in one session.^[25]

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Bid'a

 

2 hours ago, ILuvMuhammadSAW said:

2: Hand of Fatima, once again from all ive heard it is a cultural Bid'ah that has no roots in Quran, Sunnah or Hadith of any kind (Sunni or Shia) and also the fact that it is used alot by Non Muslims concerns me, if it does have any roots or mentioning in Hadith let me know

This matter has been refuted many times which it doesn't have any roots or mentioning in Hadith which just this accusation has been spread by wahabis /salafis just for accusing shias to be Jews .

2 hours ago, ILuvMuhammadSAW said:

3: Re-enactments of Karbala, ive seen some ridiculous to say the least Re-enactments of Karbala (Im not trying to insult Imam Husayn (رضي الله عنه) or the Martyrs of Karbala) for example a large group of men following a horse dressed up as Abbas Ibn Ali's horse and theyre all touching it and stuff, also this thing where this guy has this large wooden thing on himself and he's spinning it around, and this group of men running around this fire thing (I will give the videos if you ask me just i dont want this forum to be too long)

wrong action of a group of weirdos or Ghulat (exaggerators) doesn't reperesent shia belife ; which I have never seen such thing in Re-enactments of Karbala in Iran & Iraq .

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, ILuvMuhammadSAW said:

4: Shrine culture and Tawwasul, pretty explainable why im questioning this

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, ILuvMuhammadSAW said:

5: Imams being higher than the Prophets, it just seems totally out of line to me

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, ILuvMuhammadSAW said:

6: Soil of Karbala, not prostrating on it itself is a question to me but ive heard some scholars say that eating some, which is usually forbidden to eat mud or clay, brings healing and protection, which i dont believe

Generally it's pure soil so therefore  prostrating on it itself has been allowed even by sunni standards also eating  mud or clay is forbidden shia Islam which only eating soil of Karbala in small amount in size of a single pea (nokhod (traditional unit of weight equal to about two grams)  in hope of receiving healing from Allah by some conditrions has been recommended .

https://fastdic.com/word/نخود

2 hours ago, ILuvMuhammadSAW said:

7: Depictions of Ahlul Bayt, once again explainable considering ive been a Sunni most my life and absorbing their teachings and rulings

 

 

 

2 hours ago, ILuvMuhammadSAW said:

8: Shia hadith narrations, for example supposedly in Bihar Al Anwar page 125 it says that the sea is salty because the fish cried for Husayn (رضي الله عنه)

making an example from an absurd narration doesn't prove any thing which Bihar Al Anwar is collection of any sort of hadith in similar fashion of an encyclopedia which any hadith nee s examining  & verification .

  

 

 

 

2 hours ago, ILuvMuhammadSAW said:

9: Carrying and making coffins of members of the 12 Imams and carrying it as if they were in a real funeral with them

This is a cultural matter in some shia communities which has been mentioned about No.1

 

2 hours ago, ILuvMuhammadSAW said:

10: Imam Mehdi being killed by a bearded woman, ive heard that this story is weak but still a little concerning 

it's another absurd narration which has too weak document which generally on some hadiths  from prophet Muhammad (pbu) which he & infallible imams will be martyred by poisoning or hitting by sword (death in war) ; so therefore it will be concluded that Imam Mahdi(aj) will be martyred in similar fashion too ; but this hadith about being killed by  bearded woman has no authenticity or value ; which a personal guess is about  fighting Imam with LGBT+(fake transgenderism) after his reappearance which it has been too influential in our era , which maybe a remnant from it in similar fashion of cursed ibn Muljam (la) who has been a remnant of Khawarij as killer of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) so then wil try to kill Imam Mahdi(aj)  ,which it's  just my personal guess    & Allah knows best .

[Zaid.AN]

3 hours ago, ILuvMuhammadSAW said:

10: Imam Mehdi being killed by a bearded woman, ive heard that this story is weak but still a little concerning

Regarding this point, when we consider the rise of movements that are contrary to human nature, one might see a certain relevance to this narration, regardless of its authenticity.

[ILuvMuhammadSAW]

1 hour ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam respectfully  being comfort with something doesn't mean that is truth or right thing which sometimes right thing & truth maybe uncomfortable for us because it 's against some wrong desires & misunderstanding .

Imam Ali (عليه السلام) has said :

Hadith n. 376

376. Amir al-mu'minin, peace be upon him, said: Certainly, right is weighty and wholesome while wrong is light and unwholesome.

376. وقال عليه السلام : إِنَّ الْحَقَّ ثَقِيلٌ مَرِيءٌ وَإِنَّ الْبَاطِلَ خَفِيفٌ وَبِيءٌ.

https://al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/selections-sayings-and-preaching-amir-al-muminin-ali#hadith-n-368

Doubt has also four aspects:

Hadith n. 31: Faith, Unbelief, Doubt And Their Supports

https://al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/selections-sayings-and-preaching-amir-al-muminin-ali#hadith-n-368

 

 

This a cultural matter which is variant in different culture which it's not Bid'ah because  Bid'ah is about making distortion or innovation in principles of religion which all of your mentioned doubts don't  have any correlation to it  which generally mourning  for Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) has been recommend ; which any community is performing it based on it's culture until it's not against principles of Islam  ; which your misunderstanding comes from mixing cultural practice with principles & misreperesenting of Shias by Wahabis/Salafis based on wrong actions or saying of few weirdos or Ghulat (exaggerators) ; which in this case the  lyric  doesn't represent shia belife which all shias dont't believe to such nonsense .  

From wikishia

Widespread Accusations of Bid'a

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Bid'a

 

This matter has been refuted many times which it doesn't have any roots or mentioning in Hadith which just this accusation has been spread by wahabis /salafis just for accusing shias to be Jews .

wrong action of a group of weirdos or Ghulat (exaggerators) doesn't reperesent shia belife ; which I have never seen such thing in Re-enactments of Karbala in Iran & Iraq .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Generally it's pure soil so therefore  prostrating on it itself has been allowed even by sunni standards also eating  mud or clay is forbidden shia Islam which only eating soil of Karbala in small amount in size of a single pea (nokhod (traditional unit of weight equal to about two grams)  in hope of receiving healing from Allah by some conditrions has been recommended .

https://fastdic.com/word/نخود

 

 

 

making an example from an absurd narration doesn't prove any thing which Bihar Al Anwar is collection of any sort of hadith in similar fashion of an encyclopedia which any hadith nee s examining  & verification .

  

 

 

 

This is a cultural matter in some shia communities which has been mentioned about No.1

 

it's another absurd narration which has too weak document which generally on some hadiths  from prophet Muhammad (pbu) which he & infallible imams will be martyred by poisoning or hitting by sword (death in war) ; so therefore it will be concluded that Imam Mahdi(aj) will be martyred in similar fashion too ; but this hadith about being killed by  bearded woman has no authenticity or value ; which a personal guess is about  fighting Imam with LGBT+(fake transgenderism) after his reappearance which it has been too influential in our era , which maybe a remnant from it in similar fashion of cursed ibn Muljam (la) who has been a remnant of Khawarij as killer of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) so then wil try to kill Imam Mahdi(aj)  ,which it's  just my personal guess    & Allah knows best .

Thank you for easing some of my worries and questions, and thank you for going out of your way to retrieve all of this information, and now to be clear i am not officially a Hanbali Athari Salafi etc, i just see myself as a Sunni for the moment, i will have to go up to my Shia mosque (50 kms away lol) and try to get ahold of the Imam there to see if he has any contacts 

[Abu Hassanain]

Salam

first of all mourning by beating the chest and reciting eulogies was very common in the book of Luke. It mentions the disciples whale and beat their breast.

The holy prophet peace of blessing be upon him and it’s found in both schools of thought sources recited the battle give a speech good morning rituals beat his chest and then made prayers in prayer stones from the soil of Hamza as grave 

Certain soils have different nutrients and soil and salt eating small amounts for iron is common in some areas among pregnant women a small bit of the soil at the wedding or in sickness will not hurt you. The prohibition about eating mud and dirt is eating the massive amount to fill hunger or eating for no reason

Some of the things you’re mentioning more common in the Indo Pakistani community and have to do with culture not religion

the salafi follow gulf Arab culture, which has nothing to do with the holy prophet, peace, and blessing as he was from hijaz so one group is following one culture. Another group is following another culture.

Intercession which you mentioned is proven on the Quran in chapter 5, verse 35 “ and seeking means of approach” this indicates a living thing or a person, not an action as the other school interprets

Quran also says “ and no one can intercede in his presence except those he gives permission”  “ and no one can intercede in his presence except the one who’s intercession is acceptable and they know  him well”

What is prohibited in authentic generations of both schools of thought is specifically sculptures and paintings that are made out without intentional worship or generally fine

Making a picture of what based in narration the holy ones might’ve looked like it means of teaching is not an issue would be an issue as if people started worshiping images or say we are 100% sure this is what they looked

imamah being higher than prophet is proven by the holy quran ch 2 verse 124 Ibrahim as was given imamamah as the last rank 

he was first hanif 

then Khalil 

then nabi

then Rasul 

then muwahi ul Kitab 

then uli Azim

then imam 

If you read the stories in the holy Quran and the narrations, this is easily confirmed

@ILuvMuhammadSAW

wallahu Alam 

[Abu Hassanain]

Salam

now this is a sensitive topic, but I’m gonna raise this topic because it’s important

Brother, you are in doubt about theology

But the foundation of all Islamic theology is Tawhid Illahi or the unity of God

now the salafi theology states god is sitting on a throne in the seventh heaven, and he remains their rules from there

ibn tayyminah believed, and was imprisoned by the rules of his time for the belief that therefore God is limited by the six directions standing up, looking down, moving right moving left, moving back or forward because he’s on the throne therefore because he’s on the throne and one fixed place, he must be limited to some extent

The others among their scholars that he had a body, unlike other bodies and the base on narrations like about going from the shin to ankle him putting the foot and hell him sticking his head to the lower heaven people seeing his face on Friday etc 

Now the Lord says in his book, the last verse of chapter 112 and there is none like him or you can translate this nothing from his creation or resembles him or he is not similar to anything from amongst his creation, etc.

So I ask you if you were in doubt about our school of thought and you’re raising the Salafiyah qualified, which violates the most fundamental issue of Islam how have you done your research and how does it make sense that the school of all is correct?

Have you read minhaj ul sunnah and itaqidat ul ashari and itaqidat ul athari ? 

Just a few examples are the fact that in those books, it states that the horn that’s blown before the day of judgment is a physical horn. It’s not a metaphor for power or speech or create a giant horn floating around in space somewhere.

With those scholars based on their literal and wrong interpretation of the Quran said the Earth is flat and the sun the moon revolve around the Earth

In those that in that schools book, a narration, they say that the holy prophet, peace and blessing be upon him, would lie in the hat of the lap of a certain wife while she was bleeding with just her clothes to cover, and the revelation would come down

That he and I see graphic in the Lord had stains on the front of his clothes and had to be told by others and would have to leave and let them leave the prayers 

The interpretation of the Quran, the narrations and the theological belief of lovers. School are not in line with reality.

Fundamental issue is on the unity of God they’ve gone above and beyond the bounce, and if they say that our school of God has given great authority to certain individuals, it’s certain individuals have gone to extremes. We did not make God a man we did not make God of human characteristics we did not limit God or make God resemble his creation. 

The one who limits God has stepped out of his life the one who restricts God has stepped out of his Islam

And we see refuge in the Lord Allah, the God of that happens in the earth from such a fate 

@ILuvMuhammadSAW

wallahu alam

to clear individual Sunni are not kafir but their school of thought contains Kufr . Their scholars and learn men who understand the proofs and issues and I’ve seen the different views and accept. These views is a different matter.
 

Maybe we all be guided to the correct understanding of the ones of God which is only through 14 because if you understand him as they did, you’ll become a monotheist, but if you understand him as they didn’t, you can go into disbelief 

That’s the meaning of the narration whoever recognizes our waliyah is a muwahid is a believer whoever doesnt recognize our waliyah is a mushirk 

wallahu Alam 

[ILuvMuhammadSAW]

18 hours ago, Abu Hassanain said:

Salam

now this is a sensitive topic, but I’m gonna raise this topic because it’s important

Brother, you are in doubt about theology

But the foundation of all Islamic theology is Tawhid Illahi or the unity of God

now the salafi theology states god is sitting on a throne in the seventh heaven, and he remains their rules from there

ibn tayyminah believed, and was imprisoned by the rules of his time for the belief that therefore God is limited by the six directions standing up, looking down, moving right moving left, moving back or forward because he’s on the throne therefore because he’s on the throne and one fixed place, he must be limited to some extent

The others among their scholars that he had a body, unlike other bodies and the base on narrations like about going from the shin to ankle him putting the foot and hell him sticking his head to the lower heaven people seeing his face on Friday etc 

Now the Lord says in his book, the last verse of chapter 112 and there is none like him or you can translate this nothing from his creation or resembles him or he is not similar to anything from amongst his creation, etc.

So I ask you if you were in doubt about our school of thought and you’re raising the Salafiyah qualified, which violates the most fundamental issue of Islam how have you done your research and how does it make sense that the school of all is correct?

Have you read minhaj ul sunnah and itaqidat ul ashari and itaqidat ul athari ? 

Just a few examples are the fact that in those books, it states that the horn that’s blown before the day of judgment is a physical horn. It’s not a metaphor for power or speech or create a giant horn floating around in space somewhere.

With those scholars based on their literal and wrong interpretation of the Quran said the Earth is flat and the sun the moon revolve around the Earth

In those that in that schools book, a narration, they say that the holy prophet, peace and blessing be upon him, would lie in the hat of the lap of a certain wife while she was bleeding with just her clothes to cover, and the revelation would come down

That he and I see graphic in the Lord had stains on the front of his clothes and had to be told by others and would have to leave and let them leave the prayers 

The interpretation of the Quran, the narrations and the theological belief of lovers. School are not in line with reality.

Fundamental issue is on the unity of God they’ve gone above and beyond the bounce, and if they say that our school of God has given great authority to certain individuals, it’s certain individuals have gone to extremes. We did not make God a man we did not make God of human characteristics we did not limit God or make God resemble his creation. 

The one who limits God has stepped out of his life the one who restricts God has stepped out of his Islam

And we see refuge in the Lord Allah, the God of that happens in the earth from such a fate 

@ILuvMuhammadSAW

wallahu alam

to clear individual Sunni are not kafir but their school of thought contains Kufr . Their scholars and learn men who understand the proofs and issues and I’ve seen the different views and accept. These views is a different matter.
 

Maybe we all be guided to the correct understanding of the ones of God which is only through 14 because if you understand him as they did, you’ll become a monotheist, but if you understand him as they didn’t, you can go into disbelief 

That’s the meaning of the narration whoever recognizes our waliyah is a muwahid is a believer whoever doesnt recognize our waliyah is a mushirk 

wallahu Alam 

I did not know that, but there some things i am still concerned with in regards to Shia Islam, it is Cursing respected Sunni figures, the maturidi school, and narrations about the soil of karbala, to explain further

I remember hearing narrations about Jafar Al Sadiq cursing Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Aisha, and Hafsah and some other women, yet many Marja forbid it? is the narration/s authentic? 

and what about the Maturidi school, they take their interpretations of Allah as metaphorical, so where in their school of thought is kufr? and alot of Shia say Atharis believe that Allah physically has a hand, shin, etc, but thats just what he said in the Quran, so they affirm it, but they absolutely dont mean it physically, no, they just say "Allah has a hand because he said it himself in the Qur'an, just we interpret in a way that befits his majesty and does not contradict the Qur'an", so forth for other Hadiths/Verses that say similar, as for what Ibn Taymiyyah said about Allahs movements, since i do not want to rush to conclusions since i currently do not have knowledge or an understanding of what he said

and i want some Narrations (Even just Shia ones) about the soil of Karbala being permissable to eat in tiny tiny amounts, and narrations of the rewards of prostrating on it

another question that popped to mind, is it true that a Fish narrated a Shi'a narration, that one of the Imams created a flying elephant out of clay, and that there will supposedly be a "Ya Ali ticket" of somekind when we reach Jannah? or are those also fabrications and weak Hadiths (I heard the "Ya Ali Ticket" story from Sayed Muhammad Baqir Al Kawzini) 

And something else i want to add on, are the narrations about going to pilgrimage to Husayn and Ali being worth as much as 70k Umarah/Hajj's true? i find these narrations unbelievable 

Edited July 13 by ILuvMuhammadSAW
Adding questions

[Ashvazdanghe]

2 hours ago, ILuvMuhammadSAW said:

I remember hearing narrations about Jafar Al Sadiq cursing Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Aisha, and Hafsah and some other women, yet many Marja forbid it? is the narration/s authentic? 

Salam this is just misinterpretation of infamous shirazi grouplet from a too weak narration which in original weak unauthentic hadith  these names has not been mentioned ; but this false interpretation has been spread by shirazi grouplet so then misused by anti shia Salafi/wahabi groups against shia muslaims ; 

2 hours ago, ILuvMuhammadSAW said:

some Narrations (Even just Shia ones) about the soil of Karbala

The Philosophy behind Prostrating on the Soil of Karbala

One of the subjects which has attracted the attention of both Sunnis and Wahhabis is why the Shias prostrate on soil from Karbala, known as the soil [Turbat] of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام). They question the essence of this prostration and wonder whether it is for Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) or the soil itself. We will now examine this topic to make this issue clear.

The Shias prostrate on any kind of soil

The Shia scholars [Ulama] do not say that it is obligatory [Wajib] to prostrate on soil from Karbala. They have said that it is permissible to prostrate on any clay, earth in general. Because of the fact that the soil from Karbala has special distinctions, it is considered preferable and more desirable to prostrate on it.

The superiority of some lands over other lands in the Quran

It can be deduced from a number of verses of the Holy Quran that certain lands have been blessed and have special distinctions over other lands. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), the Exalted, says,

﴿ إِنَّ أَوَّلَ بَيتٍ وُضِعَ لِلنّاسِ لَلَّذِي بِبَکَّةَ مُبارَکاً وَهُديً لِلْعالَمِينَ ﴾

“Most surely the first house appointed for men is the one at Bekka, blessed and a guidance for the nations.”1

Quote

One of the lands which has gained superiority over other lands and has become a source of blessings and favors is Karbala, the place where the body of the Doyen of Martyrs, Imam al-Husayn (عليه السلام), lies. Karbala is that same holy piece of land from which Imam ‘Ali (عليه السلام), long before the martyrdom of Imam al-Husayn (عليه السلام), had picked up a handful of clay. He smelled the soil and cried so much that the soil got wet with the tears flowing from his eyes.”

Then, he said, “Seventy thousand people will be raised from this land. They will enter heaven without their actions of this world being accounted.”[^13]

The excellence and superiority of the clay of Karbala

Quote

Clay from Karbala is one of the soils on earth which Allah, the Exalted, has blessed for certain reasons, and one of the reasons is that this piece of the earth is where the pure and noble body of the Doyen of Martyrs, Imam al-Husayn (عليه السلام), rests.

While explaining the hidden meaning of prostrating on soil from Karbala, ‘Allamah Amini says, “This issue is based on two basic principles:

a. That the Imamate Shi‘ahs try to always have a clean cake of natural earth in their possession so that they may prostrate on it.

b. That some graves are superior to others; therefore, there are special blessings derived from these tombs. It is for this reason that the precincts of the Ka‘bah and other holy shrines have special religious laws.

One of the lands which has gained superiority over other lands and has become a source of blessings and favors is Karbala, the place where the body of the Doyen of Martyrs, Imam al-Husayn (عليه السلام), lies. Karbala is that same holy piece of land from which Imam ‘Ali (عليه السلام), long before the martyrdom of Imam al-Husayn (عليه السلام), had picked up a handful of clay. He smelled the soil and cried so much that the soil got wet with the tears flowing from his eyes.”

Then, he said, “Seventy thousand people will be raised from this land. They will enter heaven without their actions of this world being accounted.”13

Shaykh Muhammad Husayn Al Kashif al-Ghita’, while explaining why it is preferable and desirable to prostrate on soil from Karbala, said, “One of the high motives and aims of preferring to prostrate on soil from Karbala is that when the person who is praying puts his forehead on this soil, he remembers the sacrifices that were made by Imam al-Husayn (عليه السلام) and the love which he displayed when he was in the presence of Allah.

The man who is praying on the soil from Karbala becomes overwhelmed by such thoughts as how it is possible for a man to sacrifice as Imam al-Husayn (عليه السلام) did for his beliefs and convictions, and stand up against the oppressors!

Considering the fact that prostration is the best posture where a servant of Allah finds himself in the presence of Allah, it is befitting that while in this state he remembers holy and pure souls; souls which sacrificed their lives in the way of their Beloved, Allah. At this moment, and with such thoughts, man acquires a condition of humility and modesty. Everything that is in this world will then appear low and abject before him.

The virtues of clay from Karbala

Quote

1. Ahmad ibn Hanbal narrates from ‘Amir Shatibi, “I once accompanied ‘Ali ibn Abi Talib on a journey. He was traveling to Siffin. When he reached the valley of Naynawa, he shouted out, ‘O Aba ‘Abd Allah! Bear patiently near the River Euphrates.’ ‘Amir Shatibi says, ‘I asked him: why?’ ‘Ali ibn Abi Talib (عليه السلام) answered, ‘One day I went to visit the Holy Prophet and found him crying. I asked him, ‘O Prophet of Allah! Has anyone annoyed you? Why are you crying?’ The Holy Prophet (S) answered, ‘No one has annoyed me, but just a while ago the Archangel Gabriel left. He brought the news that al-Husayn will be martyred near the River Euphrates. Gabriel asked me if I wanted to smell the scent of that soil. I agreed. Then, he brought out a handful of soil from the place where al-Husayn will be martyred in Karbala. It was at that moment that I could not control myself and started crying.’’”[^20]

2. Umm Salamah says, “One day, the Prophet of Allah woke up in a very disturbed state. He slept again and once more woke up in the same agitated state. He repeated this three times. When he woke up for the third time, I saw him holding red soil in his hand. He was kissing it while shedding tears. I asked him, ‘O Prophet of Allah! What is that soil?’ He said, ‘Gabriel has informed me that my son al-Husayn will be martyred in Iraq. I asked Gabriel, ‘Show me the soil where al-Husayn will be martyred’ Gabriel brought this soil and gave it to me’.”[^21]

It is essential to point out that there is a difference between “the one for whom prostration is done” and “on what material it is done”. The Shi‘ahs do not consider the soil from Karbala to be “the one for whom prostration is done”.

On the contrary, they consider it to be “the material on which prostration is done”. This means that the Shi‘ahs do not prostrate for or to the soil of Imam al-Husayn. On the contrary, they prostrate before Allah, the Exalted, by using the soil of Imam al-Husayn (عليه السلام) as a pure place where they place their foreheads (a medium of prostration). There is a clear distinction between these two.

https://www.shiavault.com/books/the-uprising-of-ashura-and-responses-to-doubts/chapters/26-prostration-on-the-soil-of-karbala-the-land-of-imam-al-husayn-s-martyrdom/

https://en.shafaqna.com/227934/prostration-on-the-soil-of-karbala-the-land-of-imam-al-husayns-martyrdom/

https://al-islam.org/uprising-ashura-and-responses-doubts-ali-asghar-ridwani/prostration-soil-karbala-land-imam-al

for further reading

https://www.shiaquest.net/islamic-rulings/prayer-salat/8034-why-do-the-shi-ah-prostrate-on-turbah.html

https://almerja.com/en/more.php?pid=2624

https://old.makarem.ir/compilation/Reader.aspx?pid=72246&lid=0&mid=83550&catid=0

https://rafed.net/english/article/68950

[Ashvazdanghe]

2 hours ago, ILuvMuhammadSAW said:

another question that popped to mind, is it true that a Fish narrated a Shi'a narration, that one of the Imams created a flying elephant out of clay, and that there will supposedly be a "Ya Ali ticket" of somekind when we reach Jannah? or are those also fabrications and weak Hadiths

These just some absurd fabricated hadith by Ghulat (exagerratotrs) which have no value & value document , even if these has been narrated by someone on a pulpit.

Quote

(I heard the "Ya Ali Ticket" story from Sayed Muhammad Baqir Al Kawzini) 

This is his personal interpretation from the story  which nothing has been mentioned in any hadith .

2 hours ago, ILuvMuhammadSAW said:

pilgrimage to Husayn and Ali being worth as much as 70k Umarah/Hajj's

CHAPTER SEVEN MERITS AND METHOD OF VISITING IMAM AL-HUSAYN'S TOMB
This chapter, which is dedicated to mentioning the merits of visiting the holy tomb of Imam al-Husayn (عليه السلام), the etiquettes that must be observed by the visitors during their journeys to the holy tomb and in the holy shrine, and the method of visiting the Imam (عليه السلام), is composed of three parts, as follows:

Merits of Visiting Imam al-Husayn (عليه السلام)
Be it known to you that the merits of visiting the holy tomb of Imam al-Husayn (عليه السلام) are too innumerable to be counted. According to many narrations, the reward of such pilgrimage is equal to the reward of ritual Hajj, `umrah, and striving in Allah's way (i.e. jihad).

Moreover, such pilgrimage to Imam al-Husayn's tomb brings about forgiveness, alleviates the settling to account on the Resurrection Day, uplifts ranks, causes the prayers to be answered, prolongs the lifetime, brings about security of selves and properties, provides more sustenance, settles all needs, and relieves from agonies and grievances.

On the other hand, to abandon visiting the holy tomb of Imam al-Husayn (عليه السلام) is regarded as deficiency in one's duty towards one's religion, because it is considered abandonment of one of the greatest duties towards the Holy Prophet (SA). Therefore, the least reward of such pilgrims is that their sins are forgiven and their souls and properties are guarded by Almighty Allah until they return home. On the Resurrection Day, Almighty Allah shall guard them in a way better than He has done in the worldly life.

According to other narrations, visiting Imam al-Husayn's tomb removes grievances, alleviates death agonies, and removes horrors in the graves. Besides, the expenditure that is spent for visiting Imam al-Husayn's tomb shall be multiplied one thousand, or even ten thousand, folds.

https://www.duas.org/ziarathussainkerbala.htm

[ILuvMuhammadSAW]

48 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

CHAPTER SEVEN MERITS AND METHOD OF VISITING IMAM AL-HUSAYN'S TOMB
This chapter, which is dedicated to mentioning the merits of visiting the holy tomb of Imam al-Husayn (عليه السلام), the etiquettes that must be observed by the visitors during their journeys to the holy tomb and in the holy shrine, and the method of visiting the Imam (عليه السلام), is composed of three parts, as follows:

Merits of Visiting Imam al-Husayn (عليه السلام)
Be it known to you that the merits of visiting the holy tomb of Imam al-Husayn (عليه السلام) are too innumerable to be counted. According to many narrations, the reward of such pilgrimage is equal to the reward of ritual Hajj, `umrah, and striving in Allah's way (i.e. jihad).

Moreover, such pilgrimage to Imam al-Husayn's tomb brings about forgiveness, alleviates the settling to account on the Resurrection Day, uplifts ranks, causes the prayers to be answered, prolongs the lifetime, brings about security of selves and properties, provides more sustenance, settles all needs, and relieves from agonies and grievances.

On the other hand, to abandon visiting the holy tomb of Imam al-Husayn (عليه السلام) is regarded as deficiency in one's duty towards one's religion, because it is considered abandonment of one of the greatest duties towards the Holy Prophet (SA). Therefore, the least reward of such pilgrims is that their sins are forgiven and their souls and properties are guarded by Almighty Allah until they return home. On the Resurrection Day, Almighty Allah shall guard them in a way better than He has done in the worldly life.

According to other narrations, visiting Imam al-Husayn's tomb removes grievances, alleviates death agonies, and removes horrors in the graves. Besides, the expenditure that is spent for visiting Imam al-Husayn's tomb shall be multiplied one thousand, or even ten thousand, folds.

https://www.duas.org/ziarathussainkerbala.htm

Is this Narration being literal in its mentioning of visiting Al Husayns Tomb being equal to Hajj or Umrah or merely just trying to describe the amount of rewards one gets? if it the second, i might actually consider Shia Islam, as unless i get proof of the opposite, i still believe that Hajj and Umrah are the holiest places and the places which the pilgrim can get the most rewards

[Abu Hassanain]

3 hours ago, ILuvMuhammadSAW said:

Is this Narration being literal in its mentioning of visiting Al Husayns Tomb being equal to Hajj or Umrah or merely just trying to describe the amount of rewards one gets? if it the second, i might actually consider Shia Islam, as unless i get proof of the opposite, i still believe that Hajj and Umrah are the holiest places and the places which the pilgrim can get the most rewards

Salam

these narrations are talking about the award of so many recommended hajj or umrah 

Something can have more reward than a mandatory action because it’s recommended dangerous and difficult

The rewards for recommended actions don’t take away from little words of mandatory actions

Some scholar, such as Allammah Majalisi were of the opinion that doing Ziyarah to the shrines of the 14 is religious obligation to confirm the faith if one was able to afford it

Some Skyler had mentioned that if you couldn’t go on Hajj then it becomes obligatory to go on umrah mufardiah than if you can’t afford that you must go Ziyarah 

for example the Ziyarah of Sayyid Abdul Azim Hassani is quoted as being equal to Ziyarah Imam Hussayn as we know that the first is not equal to the second in terms of position, so why is such an narration exist?

Because many people could not go to Iraq so they were told that if they couldn’t go to Iraq, they perform performing this Ziyarah would give them equal reward for their effort and intention

Based on the narration first go to Makkah than come see us ( graves, imam of time) if you can’t do that go visit our Shia 

 And it’s various forms means

No one is saying that Ziyarah is better than Hajj or umrah what they’re saying, these narrations are saying in that regard is it because it’s more dangerous because of the oppression because of the difficulty it has more reward Ford recommend recommended

If you have the money to do all three you have to do hajj wahadah or hajj Islam first 

wallahu Alam 

[Abu Hassanain]

SalaM

@ILuvMuhammadSAW

Wasa'il al-Shia Vol. 14 Section 8: Ziyarah and Related Matters Chapter 73: What Is Recommended To Recite And Supplicate When Taking The Soil Of Hussain For Healing https://wasail-al-shia.net/c/3721
 

https://thaqalayn.net/chapter/4/3/237

narration 3 

here is what you are really looking for on soil narration on eating it 

I was pretty sure I knew where it was, but I wanted to find the exact reference. I was right about the book. It’s kamil Ziyarah 

https://thaqalayn.net/chapter/24/2/95

Wallahu Alam 

[Abu Hassanain]

Salam

@Ashvazdanghe and @ILuvMuhammadSAW

salam

there is a debate among scholars, but the stronger narration’s opinion and interpretation of the narrations that the commander of the faithful cursed for men and four women in a Qunut of of prayers

First of all, it was the prayer and he’s now house not the public prayer

Second of all, the stronger opinion is that he mentioned by characteristics and description, not names

This is separate from the issue of 120th obligation which many scholars view is weak, particularly for two lines that could be interpreted as tharif and many of the scholars, criticize the chain

ziyarah ashura clearly curses either the bloodline, which is a less known and weaker opinion or the stronger opinion the first 4U surfers, then mentions the fifth by name, but again specific names are not mentioned

We have narrations in the ocean of light that make very clear the opinion about the first two and the rebellious wife, and they do mention my name their punishments in their stations

Is a matter of enjoying the writing and forgetting the wrong and calling out evil

If someone says that this companion or that companion did this evil horrible sin, they did this thing wrong this is this is not cursing or abuse. This is pointing out and becomes an obligation.

Narrating the narration, and stating one’s opinion, opinions of the scholars or teaching them as a matter of theology is not cursing

There’s a difference between narrating that the conference, the commander, the faithful condemn this person or that person who spoke out against this and saying he very openly cursed these people by name

And it’s not even giving importance to those people it’s the morality of the 14 they described people by descriptions they don’t even do anything that could be considered back, biting their enemies

Take the third at the battle he was pushing the intestines back in the wound so the blood didn’t pour. His blood is completely pure. His blood wouldn’t render his clothes, not peer, but he doesn’t even want to give the appearance of priority so no matter like that, imagine how they would deal with in the manner of cursing they would do. It’s clear they weren’t using names, but characteristics, and again that wasn’t even particularly openly. 

As for cursing the enemies, our scholars have said not to practice that publicly or in a way that hurts the feelings of others but if someone wants to you know, say oh God remove your mercy from such and such no one can stop them from doing that it just shouldn’t be done very publicly because it’s counterproductive and they’re a better ways to do things

Now, for my blessed Persian brother, if you have an opinion of any of the living scholars in Iran right now, say you cannot curse privately in your own home, I’d like to see that I’ve seen none of that and I talked to them and their representatives some time to time

Interested to see that

So the best thing is to say, may the first server be cursed me the second new server be cursed me the third be cursed May 4 be curse made the faithful wives be blasting the rebellious wives be cursed and like rather than mentioning names

But we are not cursing the people because we hate the companions as a hole rather, we are cursing the rebellious from the companions and blessing the faithful, and the people who are most of them who follow in the middle. We pray that their affair has decided justly.

i’m going to add the Thurman rulings about certain morning acts with blood by the prominent scholars and people report they say this or that, but when you go talk to them in person, the ruling they gave the people I know who spoke with them and what I have heard from them is very different

I’m not bringing that up as a separate issue. I’m bringing that up to say that some of them were asked. Should we curse these people when we’re alone and praying like the night prayer you know or is it wrong? We don’t wanna offend it on the scholars replied, there’s no one you can offend there in your house. They said do that for Eye myself do that, etc.. 

wallahu Alam 

Edited July 13 by Abu Hassanain
Add

[Abu Hassanain]

Salaam

In the historical and polemic work from Sunni imamah Wa sayasah 

it is recorded that Fatimah as said to Abu Bakr addressing him and Umar 

I call Allah and his angels to witness that you have displeased me and have not pleased me. When I meet the prophet, I will complain about you both.
 

Abu Bakr wept than she said 

by Allah I will curse you in every prayerthat I perform

So the cursing of the two is very clear from both schools of thought

I’m not gonna mention who, but one of the grand scholars was asked about cursing he said don’t do it in public he said is it better to take the names or not to take the names he said in public don’t take the names he said what about in your room alone at the night when praying the night prayer when no one can see it could offend someone and he said how will offend someone who would be in your house would be listening. He said should we curse them in the prayers he said yes the holy ones did and I do that 

wallahu Alam 

 

 

[Abu Hassanain]

Salam

as for Sayyid Muhammad Baqir Qazwini 

I know his father and uncle they’re good and decent scholars. They have a good level of knowledge, but they’re not senior scholars. They’re clergymen and they narrate what they evaluated so if you don’t agree with something, he narrated it leave it and take what is good from him.

Qazwini Milani Shirazi and Mudarrsi families all come from the same group and seminary route and current in Karbalah for everyone’s information

wallahu Alam 

I’d have to look at the narration about the talking fish as of being a ticket straight to heaven for a person if the talking fish was to convince him completely of the faith fine otherwise God knows best. There are many strange miracles that were performed.

but imam Sadiq as said you’re not responsible for what you can’t understand

wallahu Alam 

[Zaid.AN]

6 hours ago, ILuvMuhammadSAW said:

Is this Narration being literal in its mentioning of visiting Al Husayns Tomb being equal to Hajj or Umrah or merely just trying to describe the amount of rewards one gets? if it the second, i might actually consider Shia Islam, as unless i get proof of the opposite, i still believe that Hajj and Umrah are the holiest places and the places which the pilgrim can get the most rewards

As-salamu alaykum

Regarding this point, this Narration is sufficient "Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) said: whoever dies without performing obligatory Hajj, and was not prevented by a severe need, an unbearable illness, or an oppressive ruler, let him die either as a Jew or Christian" 

Source:wasa'il al-Shia, al-Hurr al-Amili, Vol. 11, P. 32.

Edited July 13 by Zaid.AN
Correction of some false

[ILuvMuhammadSAW]

I guess all my questions are solved and i dont have any doubts about it left, thank you all

[Abu Hassanain]

14 minutes ago, ILuvMuhammadSAW said:

I guess all my questions are solved and i dont have any doubts about it left, thank you all

Salam

welcome