Islam, a religion for all

[Adl.Ihsan]

There is a reason Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) revealed Islam when prior religions of the book existed. The reason we have been told is that the followers of the previous religions distorted Allah's teachings.

For example, people among the Yahud started thinking of themselves as "God's chosen people" and other people as beneath them, not giving other people a chance to get converted and go to heaven. Likewise, the Christians elevated Prophet Isa ((عليه السلام)) to the position of God.

Islam is a religion meant for all. Anyone can convert to Islam. Being born into another religion doesn't take away one's chance for redemption. Likewise, being born a Muslim doesn't mean one cannot go astray and leave Allah's grace and religion and enter hell. Allah has granted a certain degree of freedom and autonomy to human beings and it is upto them to choose what religion they follow. Any consequences of going to heaven or hell, therefore, depend on the individuals themselves, who will each be judged according to their own unique circumstances under which they were born and led their life. Allah knows best whom He is testing in what way and whether that person passes or fails his/her test.

It pains me then, that certain people I know talk about everything already being decided in Aalam al Arwah i.e. before anybody was born and that no matter how hard someone tries, just because they were born to kafir parents (apparently due to their spirit misbehaving in a past life), they will still go to hell.

However, this belief runs completely counter to Islamic teachings where are told to embrace converts (reverts) as brothers exactly the same way as we would embrace someone who was born a Muslim. Once someone reverts to Islam it's as if they have been reborn and their previous sins against Allah are forgiven. When our Holy Prophet Muhammad (SAWW) started preaching in Makkah, no one there was Muslim. According to the logic of these people then, the Holy Prophet should have left the Makkans on kufr and not preached at all since they as kafirs had no chance at redemption at all.

Even when I try to discuss and argue with them on this issue, they still stubbornly stick to what they want to believe, not considering at all how their beliefs are completely against everything that Islam stands for. They are acting exactly like the belief prevalent among Yahud, thinking just because they are born Muslim and Shia, they are superior to everyone else. I don't know how or where they got such an un-Islamic and un-Shia idea from.

[Borntowitnesstruth]

Can you explain what beliefs they try to follow illogically? I am interested to know because I dont want to end up looking illogical or irrational.

[Abu Hassanain]

On 6/13/2026 at 2:59 PM, Adl.Ihsan said:

There is a reason Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) revealed Islam when prior religions of the book existed. The reason we have been told is that the followers of the previous religions distorted Allah's teachings.

For example, people among the Yahud started thinking of themselves as "God's chosen people" and other people as beneath them, not giving other people a chance to get converted and go to heaven. Likewise, the Christians elevated Prophet Isa ((عليه السلام)) to the position of God.

Islam is a religion meant for all. Anyone can convert to Islam. Being born into another religion doesn't take away one's chance for redemption. Likewise, being born a Muslim doesn't mean one cannot go astray and leave Allah's grace and religion and enter hell. Allah has granted a certain degree of freedom and autonomy to human beings and it is upto them to choose what religion they follow. Any consequences of going to heaven or hell, therefore, depend on the individuals themselves, who will each be judged according to their own unique circumstances under which they were born and led their life. Allah knows best whom He is testing in what way and whether that person passes or fails his/her test.

It pains me then, that certain people I know talk about everything already being decided in Aalam al Arwah i.e. before anybody was born and that no matter how hard someone tries, just because they were born to kafir parents (apparently due to their spirit misbehaving in a past life), they will still go to hell.

However, this belief runs completely counter to Islamic teachings where are told to embrace converts (reverts) as brothers exactly the same way as we would embrace someone who was born a Muslim. Once someone reverts to Islam it's as if they have been reborn and their previous sins against Allah are forgiven. When our Holy Prophet Muhammad (SAWW) started preaching in Makkah, no one there was Muslim. According to the logic of these people then, the Holy Prophet should have left the Makkans on kufr and not preached at all since they as kafirs had no chance at redemption at all.

Even when I try to discuss and argue with them on this issue, they still stubbornly stick to what they want to believe, not considering at all how their beliefs are completely against everything that Islam stands for. They are acting exactly like the belief prevalent among Yahud, thinking just because they are born Muslim and Shia, they are superior to everyone else. I don't know how or where they got such an un-Islamic and un-Shia idea from.

Salam 

you’ve totally misunderstood issues. Scout was interpreted the decisions in the primordial world based on the verse 

In the name of God, the gracious and merciful, and the children of Adam  from between the back bone and the tailbone and made them  witnessMy Lordship lest  and say they’re not aware

So this also deals with divine justice that people shouldn’t have to be tested or deal with choices they didn’t consent to

It deals with the difference between absolute free will and absolute predestination and our middle position

There are some choices that were absolutely fixed in the primordial world, and there are some that are not fixed, and we would change when we got to this world that deals with the concept of the major and the minor destiny

This is the concept that takes a background and speculative theology philosophy, and the theoretical mysticism to really understand all the nuances

And a lot of it is direct, not directly from the literal meaning of the narrations, but obscure narrations implied narrations interpretation indication based on clues from the grammar in the text

Someone could’ve chose in the primordial world to be born to believer and die believer to be born to disbeliever and die disbeliever to be born a believer and die disbeliever or to be born a disbeliever and die a believer

People would say well why would you choose a bad choice for certain worldly benefit benefits

they were narrations that mentioned when Satan was expelled from the heavens he was weeping. The Lord cried out. Oh my worshiper do you want to see two who are worse than you and he saw too the narration is named them order for them is the two Bedouins their souls were being tortured for the decision they had made in this world

One of my teachers believes the last two verses of chapter 33, because of the word ignorant in impressive relates to them that they made the choice that was foolish the covenant to carry out to martyr the holy one

There’s a whole range of discussion, but if you can speak Arabic in Farsi, I would strongly suggest reaching out to Ayatullah Jawad Amuli in Qum 

If your language is Urdu Sayyid Abbas Aleya has a good grasp of this topic and knows the different positions

I was advised a long time ago that something shouldn’t be said from the pulpit in English, that something should be held back from the English speaking community etc 

But I talk about my views of these things from the pulpit people just kind of glass over it or say oh that’s weird or I never heard that. Oh that’s pretty cool and then generally focus on the other things I said that irrelevant or they understand.

But what we shouldn’t do is assume just because we don’t agree with something it has no basis in archaeology that’s not how theology works

wallahu Alam 

[Abu Hassanain]

8 hours ago, Borntowitnesstruth said:

Can you explain what beliefs they try to follow illogically? I am interested to know because I dont want to end up looking illogical or irrational.

Salam

generally, taking beliefs without any proof whether it be primary or secondary is a bad idea

There are many books that are obscure and not primary text that people haven’t read or seen what is in there

There are many primary books that don’t have proper chains

The rules to accepting rejecting chains, narrators, etc., are a whole science

imam Jafar as Sadiq said if you realize that something is clearly from us except us if you realize that something is clearly not from us reject it if you aren’t sure we will explain

That indicates that you can’t just take one report on a topic you have to take all the reports you can find to get the whole picture

That’s why speculative the allergy besides literal and apparent the allergy is very important

A belief could be an acceptable theological view, but you’re following it without knowledge a reason, and that becomes illogical

Perhaps the brother will come back and say what he thinks was illogical

example Nadr of sweets after Majalis if a person said this is what my people do they do this in my country. This is illogical reason.

However, a person knows that in roughly the majority of the six years and 58 days particularly well under house, arrest in Syria and then in Medina Imam Sajjad as used to conclude the daily gatherings with sweets then this is a logical reason to follow this practice

wallahu Alam 

[Borntowitnesstruth]

2 hours ago, Abu Hassanain said:

Salam

generally, taking beliefs without any proof whether it be primary or secondary is a bad idea

There are many books that are obscure and not primary text that people haven’t read or seen what is in there

There are many primary books that don’t have proper chains

The rules to accepting rejecting chains, narrators, etc., are a whole science

imam Jafar as Sadiq said if you realize that something is clearly from us except us if you realize that something is clearly not from us reject it if you aren’t sure we will explain

That indicates that you can’t just take one report on a topic you have to take all the reports you can find to get the whole picture

That’s why speculative the allergy besides literal and apparent the allergy is very important

A belief could be an acceptable theological view, but you’re following it without knowledge a reason, and that becomes illogical

Perhaps the brother will come back and say what he thinks was illogical

example Nadr of sweets after Majalis if a person said this is what my people do they do this in my country. This is illogical reason.

However, a person knows that in roughly the majority of the six years and 58 days particularly well under house, arrest in Syria and then in Medina Imam Sajjad as used to conclude the daily gatherings with sweets then this is a logical reason to follow this practice

wallahu Alam 

Indeed bro, that was a very wholesome post from you. I am very glad to receive it. However, I was implying to somethings that our Aaimah did not say like brother said some people say names of those persons are already written who will enter heaven or hell. While I do not look this matter as to it particularly mentions names rather consequeces. Its my own belief which I find subscribe to the wisdom of Ahlebait (عليه السلام) that consequences are already fixed and so does the reward or punishment of those consequences and not the names of people's until they die are predestined for heaven or hell. If that were the case, people would have called it a Jabr and Allah's Adl would have been overshadowed by it. To this I disagree with those who say names are already written who will enter heaven or hell until someone has rational explanation.

Edited June 27 by Borntowitnesstruth

[Abu Hassanain]

10 hours ago, Borntowitnesstruth said:

Indeed bro, that was a very wholesome post from you. I am very glad to receive it. However, I was implying to somethings that our Aaimah did not say like brother said some people say names of those persons are already written who will enter heaven or hell. While I do not look this matter as to it particularly mentions names rather consequeces. Its my own belief which I find subscribe to the wisdom of Ahlebait (عليه السلام) that consequences are already fixed and so does the reward or punishment of those consequences and not the names of people's until they die are predestined for heaven or hell. If that were the case, people would have called it a Jabr and Allah's Adl would have been overshadowed by it. To this I disagree with those who say names are already written who will enter heaven or hell until someone has rational explanation.

Salam 

when they say their names are red, it indicates that Allah dat ul dat and by extension, the messenger and the infallible’s knew it had four knowledge of who would act what and who is consequence would be in heaven or hell

It’s famous than when chapter 63 the chapter of the hypocrites came down the holy prophet, peace, and blessings be upon it had a list of the names of all the hypocrites in Mecca and Medina and elsewhere in the world, their names, their father‘s names and their children’s names to the day of judgment

Sayyid Ali Hussayni Nawwab produced a few articles on this in Urdu from his teachers

What predestination actually is it’s it’s a belief that’s existed in many cultures, but here the Protestant example is a good example to explain that they believe that randomly God selected who would go to heaven and who would go to hell before the creation then he created then based on what he wrote, they acted that’s why the pilgrims in such groups fought to be so outwardly Pius because they considered you had to show you were saved

It being read and who would go to heaven and who would go to hell before they enter the world in the sense has four knowledge is fine. The actual predestination is one of our randomly picks forces and compels.

Imam Khadhim as as for the one who believes that he creates an abandoned, this is injustice, but worse is the one who believes and compulsion, for he believes the Lord wrote decreed and then compelled in doing so if a man committed a murder he has now made the Lord a partner to that murder so his belief is worse

We have famous narration that says our Shia are created from our leftover clay

Wallahu Alam 

[Borntowitnesstruth]

4 hours ago, Abu Hassanain said:

It’s famous than when chapter 63 the chapter of the hypocrites came down the holy prophet, peace, and blessings be upon it had a list of the names of all the hypocrites in Mecca and Medina and elsewhere in the world, their names, their father‘s names and their children’s names to the day of judgment

I would just refer to this because it interests me. Saying that Prophet (عليه السلام) was made known wbo were the hypocrites and their forefathers who were hypocrites is true. But saying that Prophet said this about children as to who will end in hell by referring only to hypocrites is against the higher moral standimg of Prophet plus awarding a plea to hypocrites in future about predestination and lowering morale of the good people among their generation by misleading them into unbelief by saying that since you saw this difficulty, it is because you are predestined by prophet to unbelief. So, even if Prophet had known it, he would spare its knowledge and reveal it only to a man like Prophet Moses (عليه السلام) as Khidr (عليه السلام) only told his secrets to a man like Moses (عليه السلام). So, I think Prophet never lost his temper and the words he used must have been lost in history and if he said it, he said it generally to all not specifically to one group because we know that none can claim his entire lineage and geneological family is free from hypocrites. Allah (عزّ وجلّ) knows best.

[Abu Hassanain]

48 minutes ago, Borntowitnesstruth said:

I would just refer to this because it interests me. Saying that Prophet (عليه السلام) was made known wbo were the hypocrites and their forefathers who were hypocrites is true. But saying that Prophet said this about children as to who will end in hell by referring only to hypocrites is against the higher moral standimg of Prophet plus awarding a plea to hypocrites in future about predestination and lowering morale of the good people among their generation by misleading them into unbelief by saying that since you saw this difficulty, it is because you are predestined by prophet to unbelief. So, even if Prophet had known it, he would spare its knowledge and reveal it only to a man like Prophet Moses (عليه السلام) as Khidr (عليه السلام) only told his secrets to a man like Moses (عليه السلام). So, I think Prophet never lost his temper and the words he used must have been lost in history and if he said it, he said it generally to all not specifically to one group because we know that none can claim his entire lineage and geneological family is free from hypocrites. Allah (عزّ وجلّ) knows best.

Salam

they also knew the names of all the 313 in the previous 123,999 prophets do the names of the 72 maytrs 

Generally, no, he didn’t tell all that information to everyone

But he certainly knew in certain lines are certainly cursed and damned

are you talking about? Some people are making the claim that some evil people’s descendants that the whole Line is damned because that’s another topic that’s not what it appeared you said please clarify.

It’s not arguing I’m generally interested to know 

wallahu Alam 

[Borntowitnesstruth]

14 hours ago, Abu Hassanain said:

they also knew the names of all the 313 in the previous 123,999 prophets do the names of the 72 maytrs 

Generally, no, he didn’t tell all that information to everyone

But he certainly knew in certain lines are certainly cursed and damned

are you talking about? Some people are making the claim that some evil people’s descendants that the whole Line is damned because that’s another topic that’s not what it appeared you said please clarify.

It’s not arguing I’m generally interested to know 

wallahu Alam 

Well, I believe the jobs of 313 are open as were the jobs of 72 martyrs, it is up to the person who fills those positions. Also, you might have read that whoever dies among 313, there will be another person to replace him and there are many ahadith written which says if you do such and such deeds and be such and such, you will be rewarded as if you were fought in Ghazwat along prophet and were martyred in it. So, although the sacrifice of 72 martyrs of Karbala is great but Allah (عزّ وجلّ) can enter some among those 72 martyrs if such person's sacrifice is deemed by Allah (عزّ وجلّ) as great as one of 72 martyrs. Allah (عزّ وجلّ) has not declared that no person after such sacrifice can earn such station, Adl is that Allah (عزّ وجلّ) grants equal opportunity to all.

As for those whose names Rasol-Allah knows will end up in unbelief, my belief is that such person's shayateen are already known by Prophets by names. So, if such people follow their shayateen, they will be put into hell along their shayateen into it and if not, Allah (عزّ وجلّ) would separate their shayateen from them and put those shayateen into hell like the shayateen of those who entered into heaven. So, shayateen will definitely enter into hell but its up to human to accept his shaytan and enter hell or accept his Lord and enter into heavenly mercy. They can't both live in one heart when judgement arrives. 

[Abu Hassanain]

23 hours ago, Borntowitnesstruth said:

Well, I believe the jobs of 313 are open as were the jobs of 72 martyrs, it is up to the person who fills those positions. Also, you might have read that whoever dies among 313, there will be another person to replace him and there are many ahadith written which says if you do such and such deeds and be such and such, you will be rewarded as if you were fought in Ghazwat along prophet and were martyred in it. So, although the sacrifice of 72 martyrs of Karbala is great but Allah (عزّ وجلّ) can enter some among those 72 martyrs if such person's sacrifice is deemed by Allah (عزّ وجلّ) as great as one of 72 martyrs. Allah (عزّ وجلّ) has not declared that no person after such sacrifice can earn such station, Adl is that Allah (عزّ وجلّ) grants equal opportunity to all.

As for those whose names Rasol-Allah knows will end up in unbelief, my belief is that such person's shayateen are already known by Prophets by names. So, if such people follow their shayateen, they will be put into hell along their shayateen into it and if not, Allah (عزّ وجلّ) would separate their shayateen from them and put those shayateen into hell like the shayateen of those who entered into heaven. So, shayateen will definitely enter into hell but its up to human to accept his shaytan and enter hell or accept his Lord and enter into heavenly mercy. They can't both live in one heart when judgement arrives. 

Salam

that doesn’t answer the question though are you talking to people who say that someone is damned automatically due to the actions of their ancestors? Because I have seen this from some people from the subcontinent.
 

As for the second point, no this is a misunderstanding of the text. The 313 and 72 were known before the creation of the heavens in the Earth.

Just like the 12 were known

That’s the verse the months and the side of God are 12. It has enforce our sacred. It has been that way since the creation of the heavens in the Earth there were no people on the heavens of the Earth to keep track of time this refers to the 12 successes. 
 

So in a similar way, the names of the 313 were known before human beings existed before angels jinns or other beings p¹existed because this is the foreign knowledge of God

The infallible knew these names as well

Imam Hussayn as as well as his father would frequently site at different events such and such person will not kill me. My killer is the most baseborn violent people. They knew when they would die they knew who would kill them. He knew when he left Medina who the 72 would be with him would be

These people made their own choice to earn the station and rank, but it doesn’t mean the names weren’t known or there wasn’t foreign knowledge of God

With all respect, looking at some of your questions in the back-and-forth, I think and I don’t wanna assume anything. I don’t know what your first language is my first language English my second language is Arabic. My third language is Spanish. My fourth language is Farsi. The last two are quite weak.

But predestination in for knowledge are very different things

But I understand where you’re coming from about people being free to earn a rank in status and not being predetermined in the sense of God said 72. I’m gonna give them this big honor these 313. They’re gonna get the biggest honor but it doesn’t mean he didn’t know ahead of time and their names weren’t known.

There are many things that are talking about in the seminary that we never bring out in front of the community just because either it’s not relative to the community or it’s confusing

There’s narrations in some of the Jewish scriptures that mention the 72 names of the martyrs by name

We have a similar narration for the 313

Predestination involves force for knowledge means you know who’s gonna be there what they’re going to do. It was known ahead of time because the creator is all wise, and he knew who would be chosen long before they were chosen them based on their actions.

If I know it’s gonna rain tomorrow, despite no one else doesn’t based on my meteorological tools that doesn’t mean I made it rain. It just means I had knowledge the rain was coming.

I hope that makes sense and you’ll be blessed during these holy days of remembrance in your efforts

[Adl.Ihsan]

On 6/26/2026 at 7:04 PM, Borntowitnesstruth said:

Can you explain what beliefs they try to follow illogically? I am interested to know because I dont want to end up looking illogical or irrational.

They say that since successive British governments have had a colonial track record, exploiting people of other countries, all British people are bad, so Muslims shouldn't even live in UK

[Adl.Ihsan]

On 6/27/2026 at 3:10 AM, Abu Hassanain said:

Salam 

you’ve totally misunderstood issues. Scout was interpreted the decisions in the primordial world based on the verse 

In the name of God, the gracious and merciful, and the children of Adam  from between the back bone and the tailbone and made them  witnessMy Lordship lest  and say they’re not aware

So this also deals with divine justice that people shouldn’t have to be tested or deal with choices they didn’t consent to

It deals with the difference between absolute free will and absolute predestination and our middle position

There are some choices that were absolutely fixed in the primordial world, and there are some that are not fixed, and we would change when we got to this world that deals with the concept of the major and the minor destiny

This is the concept that takes a background and speculative theology philosophy, and the theoretical mysticism to really understand all the nuances

And a lot of it is direct, not directly from the literal meaning of the narrations, but obscure narrations implied narrations interpretation indication based on clues from the grammar in the text

Someone could’ve chose in the primordial world to be born to believer and die believer to be born to disbeliever and die disbeliever to be born a believer and die disbeliever or to be born a disbeliever and die a believer

People would say well why would you choose a bad choice for certain worldly benefit benefits

they were narrations that mentioned when Satan was expelled from the heavens he was weeping. The Lord cried out. Oh my worshiper do you want to see two who are worse than you and he saw too the narration is named them order for them is the two Bedouins their souls were being tortured for the decision they had made in this world

One of my teachers believes the last two verses of chapter 33, because of the word ignorant in impressive relates to them that they made the choice that was foolish the covenant to carry out to martyr the holy one

There’s a whole range of discussion, but if you can speak Arabic in Farsi, I would strongly suggest reaching out to Ayatullah Jawad Amuli in Qum 

If your language is Urdu Sayyid Abbas Aleya has a good grasp of this topic and knows the different positions

I was advised a long time ago that something shouldn’t be said from the pulpit in English, that something should be held back from the English speaking community etc 

But I talk about my views of these things from the pulpit people just kind of glass over it or say oh that’s weird or I never heard that. Oh that’s pretty cool and then generally focus on the other things I said that irrelevant or they understand.

But what we shouldn’t do is assume just because we don’t agree with something it has no basis in archaeology that’s not how theology works

wallahu Alam 

Your post doesn't clarify to me what I have misunderstood. Which verse of the Qur'an is this, "and the children of Adam  from between the back bone and the tailbone and made them  witnessMy Lordship lest  and say they’re not aware".

There might have been some words you missed, but thus is not a proper sentence, so I don't know what this means. Perhaps, if you can share the verse number, I'll be able to read a proper translation and get a better understanding.

I never said people should deal with choices they didn't consent to or anything near abouts. I think my post is very clear and to the point.

You also mentioned something about Bedouins being tortured due the decisions they made in this world, but again I'm not sure how any of this relates to my post.

All I'm saying is, as we have been taught in Islam, that Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has given humans a certain freedom of choice in their beliefs and actions and you can't generalise people due to them belonging to a certain country or ethnicity. What they choose to follow and do themselves, they will only be judged for that, not skin colour or being born to a nobler lineage.

Wassalam

[Abu Hassanain]

On 6/30/2026 at 7:30 PM, Adl.Ihsan said:

They say that since successive British governments have had a colonial track record, exploiting people of other countries, all British people are bad, so Muslims shouldn't even live in UK

Salam

i have heard things like this. Just extreme anti colonialism and reverse racism 

possible Israelisat based on their 7 generations rule 

known many nice British many rotten British wallahu Alam 

[Abu Hassanain]

On 6/30/2026 at 7:46 PM, Adl.Ihsan said:

Your post doesn't clarify to me what I have misunderstood. Which verse of the Qur'an is this, "and the children of Adam  from between the back bone and the tailbone and made them  witnessMy Lordship lest  and say they’re not aware".

There might have been some words you missed, but thus is not a proper sentence, so I don't know what this means. Perhaps, if you can share the verse number, I'll be able to read a proper translation and get a better understanding.

I never said people should deal with choices they didn't consent to or anything near abouts. I think my post is very clear and to the point.

You also mentioned something about Bedouins being tortured due the decisions they made in this world, but again I'm not sure how any of this relates to my post.

All I'm saying is, as we have been taught in Islam, that Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has given humans a certain freedom of choice in their beliefs and actions and you can't generalise people due to them belonging to a certain country or ethnicity. What they choose to follow and do themselves, they will only be judged for that, not skin colour or being born to a nobler lineage.

Wassalam

Salam commentary of ch 7 verse 172 

https://almizan.org/vol/16/195-233
 

Wallahu Alam 

[Abu Hassanain]

On 6/30/2026 at 7:46 PM, Adl.Ihsan said:

Your post doesn't clarify to me what I have misunderstood. Which verse of the Qur'an is this, "and the children of Adam  from between the back bone and the tailbone and made them  witnessMy Lordship lest  and say they’re not aware".

There might have been some words you missed, but thus is not a proper sentence, so I don't know what this means. Perhaps, if you can share the verse number, I'll be able to read a proper translation and get a better understanding.

I never said people should deal with choices they didn't consent to or anything near abouts. I think my post is very clear and to the point.

You also mentioned something about Bedouins being tortured due the decisions they made in this world, but again I'm not sure how any of this relates to my post.

All I'm saying is, as we have been taught in Islam, that Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has given humans a certain freedom of choice in their beliefs and actions and you can't generalise people due to them belonging to a certain country or ethnicity. What they choose to follow and do themselves, they will only be judged for that, not skin colour or being born to a nobler lineage.

Wassalam

Salam

The narration about the two bedouins being tortured is one of three versions of the same narration 

one says two Bedouins 

one says shaykhain (the implication of the word here is the two old men, the two chief)

one says Abu Bakr and Umar by name 

wallahu Alam 

[Abu Hassanain]

On 6/30/2026 at 7:46 PM, Adl.Ihsan said:

Your post doesn't clarify to me what I have misunderstood. Which verse of the Qur'an is this, "and the children of Adam  from between the back bone and the tailbone and made them  witnessMy Lordship lest  and say they’re not aware".

There might have been some words you missed, but thus is not a proper sentence, so I don't know what this means. Perhaps, if you can share the verse number, I'll be able to read a proper translation and get a better understanding.

I never said people should deal with choices they didn't consent to or anything near abouts. I think my post is very clear and to the point.

You also mentioned something about Bedouins being tortured due the decisions they made in this world, but again I'm not sure how any of this relates to my post.

All I'm saying is, as we have been taught in Islam, that Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has given humans a certain freedom of choice in their beliefs and actions and you can't generalise people due to them belonging to a certain country or ethnicity. What they choose to follow and do themselves, they will only be judged for that, not skin colour or being born to a nobler lineage.

Wassalam

Salam

The simplest way I can put it as my whole point was that human beings make many choices in the primordial world and act out those choices coming to this world. This is not for us that this is simply choices and a lot has four knowledge of those choices you know maybe some brothers can break it down easier if need be.

As for people are saying whole races are damned. Yes I’ve heard some of the clergy say the verse “ man has been created for toil” referred to the black race sometimes other times I’ve heard and this is more accurate understanding. They refers to different races at different times or the whole human race to be fair. A lot of people were saying it’s the black race aren’t meaning it racist they just assume certain races chose a harder challenge than others, but it’s a strange thought, and it relates heavily to our narrations about the son of Noah being cursed, and some traditions indicate that’s what dark skin they are in hayyat ul qulub and a few other places but volume one of that important book has many weaker or traditions, less reliable traditions, traditions, where the chain is problematic or the tax or that appear to be borrowed from Israelisat 

I am not endorsing the above views it’s a view held by about only 15 to 25% of the clergy I’ve met in north and South America and in the east

As for some lineage is being nobler than others, some teenagers were more exalted by the test and trials of being sayyid 

Imam Jafar As Sadiq as says in Kafi and other source sources and various and similar wording

The holy prophet, peace, and blessings upon him said my progeny are rewarded twice for their good deeds and punished twice for their sins. They are rewarded twice for the good deeds one for their good deed and one for honoring the relationship to me. They’re punished twice for their sins once for their bad deed, and once we dishonoring their relationship to me.

As for some races, classes or social, economic groups, being inherently better than others, this group affects all human beings throughout history or this thought but it’s particularly bad and many parts of the Indo Pakistani community because of the remnants of the cast system

My main point is that making choices in the primordial world and acting them out here is not force when a lot allows it and knows about it for knowledge
 

Forces that it was written, we would do things before we were born, and we didn’t consent or choose

wallahu Alam 

[Abu Hassanain]

9 minutes ago, Abu Hassanain said:

Salam commentary of ch 7 verse 172 

https://almizan.org/vol/16/195-233
 

Wallahu Alam 

@Adl.Ihsan

I don’t know if your primary language is English or you speak a secondary language or English the second and another is your first. The reason I ask is I know

if Urdu is your main language Sayyid Abbas Aleya of Zaynabia in the outskirts of Seattle Washington had some wonderful discussions on this verse and all the choices we make in the Morial world particularly I think he may have had one or two lectures about why we can’t disobey our parents because we chose our parents before we came here I’ve had conversation conversations with son of some of the students had a few short conversations with him, but I know he’s talked about this topic extensively but in Urdu

wallahu Alam 

in Farsi there are numerous speakers who used to come to New York and talk about this topic at different times, but off the top of my head I really can’t remember their name so many people who used to come to Imam Ali Hussaynia in Queens 

but if you speak Farsi  Ayatullah Udma Shaikh Jawad Amuli would be a good person to reach out too 

wallahu Alam 

[Adl.Ihsan]

On 7/2/2026 at 3:17 AM, Abu Hassanain said:

Salam

The simplest way I can put it as my whole point was that human beings make many choices in the primordial world and act out those choices coming to this world. This is not for us that this is simply choices and a lot has four knowledge of those choices you know maybe some brothers can break it down easier if need be.

As for people are saying whole races are damned. Yes I’ve heard some of the clergy say the verse “ man has been created for toil” referred to the black race sometimes other times I’ve heard and this is more accurate understanding. They refers to different races at different times or the whole human race to be fair. A lot of people were saying it’s the black race aren’t meaning it racist they just assume certain races chose a harder challenge than others, but it’s a strange thought, and it relates heavily to our narrations about the son of Noah being cursed, and some traditions indicate that’s what dark skin they are in hayyat ul qulub and a few other places but volume one of that important book has many weaker or traditions, less reliable traditions, traditions, where the chain is problematic or the tax or that appear to be borrowed from Israelisat 

I am not endorsing the above views it’s a view held by about only 15 to 25% of the clergy I’ve met in north and South America and in the east

As for some lineage is being nobler than others, some teenagers were more exalted by the test and trials of being sayyid 

Imam Jafar As Sadiq as says in Kafi and other source sources and various and similar wording

The holy prophet, peace, and blessings upon him said my progeny are rewarded twice for their good deeds and punished twice for their sins. They are rewarded twice for the good deeds one for their good deed and one for honoring the relationship to me. They’re punished twice for their sins once for their bad deed, and once we dishonoring their relationship to me.

As for some races, classes or social, economic groups, being inherently better than others, this group affects all human beings throughout history or this thought but it’s particularly bad and many parts of the Indo Pakistani community because of the remnants of the cast system

My main point is that making choices in the primordial world and acting them out here is not force when a lot allows it and knows about it for knowledge
 

Forces that it was written, we would do things before we were born, and we didn’t consent or choose

wallahu Alam 

Salam

Thank you for the valuable information, brother. I don't always get the time, but I've read through it and yes, I agree there are a lot of viewpoints on even the most basic things. However, still whatever the case may be, I strongly believe that leaving judgement to Allah of his creations and only guiding people towards the good and forbidding evil, as Islam commands is the best. Because, hate only creates more hate. If we hate someone, they can hate us in return. Apart from English, my language is Urdu. Also, thanks for the Mizan link. I have been thinking of reading that up for some time.

Best wishes and salams

[Borntowitnesstruth]

On 6/29/2026 at 1:47 AM, Abu Hassanain said:

Salam

that doesn’t answer the question though are you talking to people who say that someone is damned automatically due to the actions of their ancestors? Because I have seen this from some people from the subcontinent.
 

As for the second point, no this is a misunderstanding of the text. The 313 and 72 were known before the creation of the heavens in the Earth.

Just like the 12 were known

That’s the verse the months and the side of God are 12. It has enforce our sacred. It has been that way since the creation of the heavens in the Earth there were no people on the heavens of the Earth to keep track of time this refers to the 12 successes. 
 

So in a similar way, the names of the 313 were known before human beings existed before angels jinns or other beings p¹existed because this is the foreign knowledge of God

The infallible knew these names as well

Imam Hussayn as as well as his father would frequently site at different events such and such person will not kill me. My killer is the most baseborn violent people. They knew when they would die they knew who would kill them. He knew when he left Medina who the 72 would be with him would be

These people made their own choice to earn the station and rank, but it doesn’t mean the names weren’t known or there wasn’t foreign knowledge of God

With all respect, looking at some of your questions in the back-and-forth, I think and I don’t wanna assume anything. I don’t know what your first language is my first language English my second language is Arabic. My third language is Spanish. My fourth language is Farsi. The last two are quite weak.

But predestination in for knowledge are very different things

But I understand where you’re coming from about people being free to earn a rank in status and not being predetermined in the sense of God said 72. I’m gonna give them this big honor these 313. They’re gonna get the biggest honor but it doesn’t mean he didn’t know ahead of time and their names weren’t known.

There are many things that are talking about in the seminary that we never bring out in front of the community just because either it’s not relative to the community or it’s confusing

There’s narrations in some of the Jewish scriptures that mention the 72 names of the martyrs by name

We have a similar narration for the 313

Predestination involves force for knowledge means you know who’s gonna be there what they’re going to do. It was known ahead of time because the creator is all wise, and he knew who would be chosen long before they were chosen them based on their actions.

If I know it’s gonna rain tomorrow, despite no one else doesn’t based on my meteorological tools that doesn’t mean I made it rain. It just means I had knowledge the rain was coming.

I hope that makes sense and you’ll be blessed during these holy days of remembrance in your efforts

The matter for me for those who are divinely chosen is different than from those who are given a choice. So, the matter of Prophets and 12 Imams is different from 313 and 72 martyrs. Because in case of Prophets and Imams, it was obligatory upon Allah (عزّ وجلّ) to provide for his creation someone who may guide them as for the 313 and 72 martyrs these positions are vacant for entirety of the creation and each could replace the other and each could join the other, it was not that only the names of the people of the Ashab of Imam Hussain were meant to be written and Allah (عزّ وجلّ) would have rejected any other person if he would have tried but that no one else tried for it. If such other person had tried, he could have been the 73rd.  

As for other points regarding knowledge their knowledge of their martyrdom or what incidents will happen on what days these are not my topic of discussions.

[Borntowitnesstruth]

On 7/1/2026 at 4:30 AM, Adl.Ihsan said:

They say that since successive British governments have had a colonial track record, exploiting people of other countries, all British people are bad, so Muslims shouldn't even live in UK

Governments have nothing to do with Publics. Publics and Governments are entirely two different things.