Proof, denying the divinity of Jesus, peace be upon him

[Abu Hassanain]

Salam 

I don’t plan necessarily engage in this discussion. I’ll leave other others to it.

John 5 30 he can do nothing by himself

John 17 3 he distinguishes himself from the father indicating there’s only one God

John 14 28 he says the father is greater than him

Mark 10 18 is upset when he has called good and discusses good as a equality only attributed to the one God

Luke 21 32 it’s subscribed to him that his kingdom was coming before the death of the people who were talking to him. I am that generation which proved false, no matter what mental gymnastics people do to make it sound good 

Mathew 26 64 he denies being God before the high priest

https://al-islam.org/jesus-through-shiite-narrations-mahdi-muntazir-qaim

The above book is written by a very nice scholar. He spent over 20 years in the seminaries, as well as he was helping create one of the first joint Urdu and Farsi seminary in Iran if I’m not mistaken. He has gone over all the issues relating to Jesus peace upon him that if a sincere question reads them Inshallah he would get affected.

Like I said, I’m gonna post this information and step back. I don’t have the time for this particular project, but I think it’s worthwhile tagging all the people who frequent this subsection and people who from their post I assume have some kind of background with Christianity better than I

@Abu Hadi @Borntowitnesstruth @Ashvazdanghe@Qa'im @Abu Nur @Northwest @ServantOfMahdi @notme

Edited August 27, 2025 by Abu Hassanain
Typo

[Jeffrey-N]

Salam. I've seen almost all of these before these are the most common Muslim attacks on Jesus.

1 hour ago, Abu Hassanain said:

John 5 30 he can do nothing by himself

A parallel example in which Jesus further elaborates is in the same chapter John 5:19

Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does."

1 hour ago, Abu Hassanain said:

John 17 3 he distinguishes himself from the father indicating there’s only one God

The only/one true God is a title often given to the father (1 Timothy 2:5)

1 hour ago, Abu Hassanain said:

John 14 28 he says the father is greater than him

Depends on what you mean by greater. While for example King Solomon was greater than the people in status, the people were just as human as Solomon. Jesus is fully God just like the father.

1 hour ago, Abu Hassanain said:

Mark 10 18 is upset when he has called good and discusses good as a equality only attributed to the one God

That's interpretation is dumb. He questions the man that calls him good without knowing he is God. He's making a point about not just going around calling people.

1 hour ago, Abu Hassanain said:

Luke 21 32 it’s subscribed to him that his kingdom was coming before the death of the people who were talking to him. I am that generation which proved false, no matter what mental gymnastics people do to make it sound good 

You believe this is a false prophecy?? Giving 'false' prophecies does seem like something a Muslim would do so maybe if this were a false prophecy that would prove Jesus was a Muslim.

2000 years of Christianity is unaltered by verse. There are lots of ways to interpret this to get out of the contradiction. 

1 hour ago, Abu Hassanain said:

Mathew 26 64 he denies being God before the high priest

 He affirms being the son of God here. Not sure how he denies being God.

1 hour ago, Abu Hassanain said:

The above book is written by a very nice scholar. He spent over 20 years in the seminaries, as well as he was helping create one of the first joint Urdu and Farsi seminary in Iran if I’m not mistaken. He has gone over all the issues relating to Jesus peace upon him that if a sincere question reads them Inshallah he would get affected.

I'll try reading it. How late are these narrations we have though.

1 hour ago, Abu Hassanain said:

Like I said, I’m gonna post this information and step back. I don’t have the time for this particular project, but I think it’s worthwhile tagging all the people who frequent this subsection and people who from their post I assume have some kind of background with Christianity better than I

@Abu Hadi @Borntowitnesstruth @Ashvazdanghe@Qa'im @Abu Nur @Northwest @ServantOfMahdi @notme

I'm still going to defend my religion, but it's okay if you don't respond.

[ServantOfMahdi]

On 8/28/2025 at 1:29 AM, Jeffrey-N said:

Salam. I've seen almost all of these before these are the most common Muslim attacks on Jesus.

A parallel example in which Jesus further elaborates is in the same chapter John 5:19

Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does."

The only/one true God is a title often given to the father (1 Timothy 2:5)

Depends on what you mean by greater. While for example King Solomon was greater than the people in status, the people were just as human as Solomon. Jesus is fully God just like the father.

That's interpretation is dumb. He questions the man that calls him good without knowing he is God. He's making a point about not just going around calling people.

You believe this is a false prophecy?? Giving 'false' prophecies does seem like something a Muslim would do so maybe if this were a false prophecy that would prove Jesus was a Muslim.

2000 years of Christianity is unaltered by verse. There are lots of ways to interpret this to get out of the contradiction. 

 He affirms being the son of God here. Not sure how he denies being God.

I'll try reading it. How late are these narrations we have though.

I'm still going to defend my religion, but it's okay if you don't respond.

Just wanting to know your views, do you really believe that before Jesus (عليه السلام) was born, the believers in the Old Testament, the 'Chosen People of the Covenant', the Israelites, the community of Moses (عليه السلام), in all their 2 millennium + history, did believe in the Trinity the Christian way even for a second? Not for a debate here, just wanna know your honest views. A simple yes or no will suffice to tell a lot about your sincerity in and devotion to knowing and believing in the truth. Waiting.

Edited January 31 by ServantOfMahdi

[Guest Peter Noorzad]

On 1/31/2026 at 6:56 AM, ServantOfMahdi said:

Just wanting to know your views, do you really believe that before Jesus (عليه السلام) was born, the believers in the Old Testament, the 'Chosen People of the Covenant', the Israelites, the community of Moses (عليه السلام), in all their 2 millennium + history, did believe in the Trinity the Christian way even for a second? Not for a debate here, just wanna know your honest views. A simple yes or no will suffice to tell a lot about your sincerity in and devotion to knowing and believing in the truth. Waiting.

The word hadn't become incarnate yet. The Holy Spirit is spoken of in the Bible, so was the son. If you're asking about the people of the old covenant believing in a trinity including the incarnate word of God, being Jesus Christ, the word that became flesh, then how would that work when the word was not incarnate yet?

[ServantOfMahdi]

11 hours ago, Guest Peter Noorzad said:

The word hadn't become incarnate yet. The Holy Spirit is spoken of in the Bible, so was the son. If you're asking about the people of the old covenant believing in a trinity including the incarnate word of God, being Jesus Christ, the word that became flesh, then how would that work when the word was not incarnate yet?

That's the point. You'll never answer it keeping it simple and to the point. Does God the Son really need a body of flesh and bones to exist? Isn't he the son even without a physical body? Didn't he exist before becoming flesh? Wasn't he "God the Son" before that? 

If the Son existed eternally, then the Trinity existed eternally. If the Trinity existed eternally, then why did none of God’s prophets clearly teach it, and why did the covenant people of God never believe it? If the Son was truly “God the Son” even before incarnation, then incarnation doesn’t solve the historical absence of Trinity belief among Israelites — it only proves the doctrine appeared later in theology, not in the original faith.

The Israelites followed strict absolute monotheism — “God is One,” not three co-equal persons. No prophet clearly taught Trinity, no Jewish sect believed it, and Judaism still rejects it today. Even historically, the Trinity doctrine developed centuries later through church theology and councils. So at best, it’s a later theological development — not the original belief of Moses’ community.

This is a very simple historical yes/no question. If it needs paragraphs instead of a yes or no, that usually means the answer is uncomfortable, not complicated. So — did Israelites believe God is three co-equal persons before Jesus — yes or no?

 

[Abu Nur]

Very simple proof How Jesus is not God:

Jesus answered, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God' John 8:54-55

This can only comes from man who is not God. But unfortunately what truth can we ever agree if we can interpret everything according to our bias? 

[Abu Nur]

What Prophet Isa (عليه السلام) and all the prophets have reached is the state where their acts and God is same, this is the state:

When I love him, I become his hearing with which he hears, his sight with which he sees, his hand with which he strikes, and his foot with which he walks. 

Because Isa (عليه السلام) came to teach the Bani Israel that what they lack, which is the spiritual life, someone of them understood but many did not because of their literalist understanding of religion they thought this is shirk. This is the same way how Salafis and Wahhabis sees Sufis. 

Then later Christians did not understand this either, but instead of seeing as shirk, they went to accept the shirk nature, instead of saying that Isa (عليه السلام) is human who acts according what Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) loves and prefer, they went to say in the Essence they are same.

Edited February 4 by Abu Nur

[Abu Nur]

1 hour ago, Abu Nur said:

Very simple proof How Jesus is not God:

Jesus answered, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God' John 8:54-55

This can only comes from man who is not God. But unfortunately what truth can we ever agree if we can interpret everything according to our bias? 

“I am the LORD; that is my name; my glory I give to no other.” (Isaiah 42:8)
Here Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) glorify Himself! If Jesus was God, then he should glorify himself. But he said my glory is nothing. If God and Jesus have same Essence, then they should have same and equal glory (and it is something and not nothing), because God is glorified because of His Essence. 

Edited February 4 by Abu Nur