Kaysanite Hadiths?

[Ali Mehdi Samu Al-Kaysani]

Does anyone have any Kaysanite hadiths? I am new convert to Islam and I believe in Kaysani Shia Islam as my neighbors teach me, they are neo-Kaysanites. I wanted to do some independent verifiable research.

[Abu Hassanain]

Salam

they sacked his little to no existing books, scholars or followers.

This for the most part like Waqifi-Musawi waqafi-asariki sabilah nawusi waqafi-ridhawi muqtalah ismali are all non existent 

only Ithna Ashari Usuli Ithna Ashari Akhbari Ithna Ashari Nitamallah Dawudi Bohra Reform Dawudi Bohra Alawi Bohra Sulymani Bohra Nizari Khoja Ishmali 3 types of zaydi  branches of Shia Remain

The overwhelming evidence is in support of Ithna Ashari Usuli 

Very little of the original Akhbari movement remains in the movement has little to do with the original methods

The other groups all number less than a couple million each if that have very little books, few scholars are clan, tribal, and obscure

The group you are calling to base is their leader, leadership, and a pest person who never called to his own leadership in an up, who didn’t rise up in that person’s name

[Ali Mehdi Samu Al-Kaysani]

11 hours ago, Abu Hassanain said:

Salam

they sacked his little to no existing books, scholars or followers.

This for the most part like Waqifi-Musawi waqafi-asariki sabilah nawusi waqafi-ridhawi muqtalah ismali are all non existent 

only Ithna Ashari Usuli Ithna Ashari Akhbari Ithna Ashari Nitamallah Dawudi Bohra Reform Dawudi Bohra Alawi Bohra Sulymani Bohra Nizari Khoja Ishmali 3 types of zaydi  branches of Shia Remain

The overwhelming evidence is in support of Ithna Ashari Usuli 

Very little of the original Akhbari movement remains in the movement has little to do with the original methods

The other groups all number less than a couple million each if that have very little books, few scholars are clan, tribal, and obscure

The group you are calling to base is their leader, leadership, and a pest person who never called to his own leadership in an up, who didn’t rise up in that person’s name

Wa Alaikum Asalam Wa Rahmutalahi Va Barakatu 

Shia sects existing in 2025:

1. Ghulat 

1a. Alawiyyah / Nusayriyyah

1b. ‘Alahiya / قُربان علاهية 

1c. Ali-Illahism 

1d. Yarsaniyyah / Ahlehaqq 

1e. Aleviyyah 

1f. (Neo-) Kaysanites

2. Musta'ili Ismailis

2a. Solomani Tayyibi Ismailis

2b. Alavi Bohras 

2c. Dawoodi Bohras

3. Nizari Ismailis

4. Alevi Bektaşi

5. Zaydiyyah

6. Jafari

6a. Akhbari 

6b. Usuli

6c. Nimetullah

7. Quranist Shia

8. Mahdawist sects

[Abu Hassanain]

13 hours ago, Ali Mehdi Samu Al-Kaysani said:

Wa Alaikum Asalam Wa Rahmutalahi Va Barakatu 

Shia sects existing in 2025:

1. Ghulat 

1a. Alawiyyah / Nusayriyyah

1b. ‘Alahiya / قُربان علاهية 

1c. Ali-Illahism 

1d. Yarsaniyyah / Ahlehaqq 

1e. Aleviyyah 

1f. (Neo-) Kaysanites

2. Musta'ili Ismailis

2a. Solomani Tayyibi Ismailis

2b. Alavi Bohras 

2c. Dawoodi Bohras

3. Nizari Ismailis

4. Alevi Bektaşi

5. Zaydiyyah

6. Jafari

6a. Akhbari 

6b. Usuli

6c. Nimetullah

7. Quranist Shia

8. Mahdawist sects

The first six are out of the bounds of religion. The Turkish one Bekhtash is mixed with so many things. You really can’t even call them Muslim. They’re mixed with Christianity. Judaism is truism, traditional, and in Turkish tribal practice Sufism Shia Sunni and somehow both pro and anti-ottoman tendencies

The second last one I’ve never seen any group like that. The Quranist aren’t really a movement so much is there are random people who don’t like narrations they have no scholars no methodology nothing. There was one who works out at the gym I used to go to. They’ll take one or two versus in English and you show them versus they show what they thought the other versus me or don’t mean what they think etc. they run. The submitters was the closest thing to an actual organized Quranist Sect it’s probably some weird random people that are number seven. The last ones if you’re talking about these different groups that were in Egypt in a rock other places those again violate most religious principles.
 

I would really like to know on what basis you consider half of these groups Muslim let alone legitimate Shia 

[Eddie Mecca]

There's still Kaysaniyyah around these days? My assumption was they all got absorbed into Zaydiyyah. Hmm, that's interesting 

[Ashvazdanghe]

22 hours ago, Ali Mehdi Samu Al-Kaysani said:

6. Jafari

6a. Akhbari 

6b. Usuli

8. Mahdawist sects

Salam respectfully these names are just one Twelver which all twelvers whether Akhbari or Ususli believe to Imam Mahdi (aj) which all of 6 - 8 are just Twelvers who all believe to Imam Mahdi (aj) .

22 hours ago, Ali Mehdi Samu Al-Kaysani said:

6c. Nimetullah

This is a sufi sect who it's members follow their current leader as Imam of their time while they have claimed that are Twelvers but in practice they have followed more than 13 Imams .

[ILuvMuhammadSAW]

What are kaysanites? 

[Abu Hassanain]

2 hours ago, ILuvMuhammadSAW said:

What are kaysanites? 

Salam

a deviated group who believed that Muhammad ibn Hanifiyah, a Son of imam Ali as from other than Fatimah as was the 4th Imam and the Mahdi. They believed he went into occulation at mount radwa, that he was fed milk and deer meat by a deer, and that two lions guarded the cave. They claimed Amir Mukhtar Thaqafi was from them, and that Muhammad ibn Hanifiyah would return and destory the Umayyads, and establish a divine kingdom. They died out after the Abbassad uprising . 
 

Muhammad ibn Hanifiyah had permission from Imam Hussayn to give permission to Mukhtar to take revenge because the Great Imam as knew the outcome, but was done in a way to protect the Immamah of Imam Sajjjad for being maytred too quick . Their is a deep science to the time lines of their Immamah, that’s why the famous narrations say Imam Mahdi as went into occulation due to fear, fear of what death no not being able to do the work and have the effect because the time and support weren’t there . Thus the waiting is an active waiting.

any way because people couldn’t understand this, they so conspiracies and hidden leaders where there wrent

Muhammad Ibn Hanifiyah was one of our followers 

Do not speak ill of Mukhtar …. He returned happiness to we the Ahlul Bayt 

Had Zayd Acheived what he wanted he would have given the right back to its owners 

these were all narrated in Abbassad period by Imam Sadiq as narrations from Umayyad time against these figures are fabricated or Taqiyah 

 

[Ali Mehdi Samu Al-Kaysani]

10 hours ago, Abu Hassanain said:

Salam

a deviated group who believed that Muhammad ibn Hanifiyah, a Son of imam Ali as from other than Fatimah as was the 4th Imam and the Mahdi. They believed he went into occulation at mount radwa, that he was fed milk and deer meat by a deer, and that two lions guarded the cave. They claimed Amir Mukhtar Thaqafi was from them, and that Muhammad ibn Hanifiyah would return and destory the Umayyads, and establish a divine kingdom. They died out after the Abbassad uprising . 
 

Muhammad ibn Hanifiyah had permission from Imam Hussayn to give permission to Mukhtar to take revenge because the Great Imam as knew the outcome, but was done in a way to protect the Immamah of Imam Sajjjad for being maytred too quick . Their is a deep science to the time lines of their Immamah, that’s why the famous narrations say Imam Mahdi as went into occulation due to fear, fear of what death no not being able to do the work and have the effect because the time and support weren’t there . Thus the waiting is an active waiting.

any way because people couldn’t understand this, they so conspiracies and hidden leaders where there wrent

Muhammad Ibn Hanifiyah was one of our followers 

Do not speak ill of Mukhtar …. He returned happiness to we the Ahlul Bayt 

Had Zayd Acheived what he wanted he would have given the right back to its owners 

these were all narrated in Abbassad period by Imam Sadiq as narrations from Umayyad time against these figures are fabricated or Taqiyah 

 

This isn't exactly accurate. It is accurate, but only for some Kaysanites. There were multiple different sects and not all of them believed this. My teacher doesn't believe that and I don't. 

[Abu Hassanain]

7 hours ago, Ali Mehdi Samu Al-Kaysani said:

This isn't exactly accurate. It is accurate, but only for some Kaysanites. There were multiple different sects and not all of them believed this. My teacher doesn't believe that and I don't. 

Salam

this was the belief of a vast majority of traditional kaysanites

A few took his son and a few got absorbed in the other groups, but it was a small minority? What are the theological beliefs of you and your teacher?
 

Who do you believe is the current Imam ? 
 

Where are your scholars based and what books are they using?

[Panzerwaffe]

On 8/28/2025 at 9:04 PM, Abu Hassanain said:

Salam

a deviated group who believed that Muhammad ibn Hanifiyah, a Son of imam Ali as from other than Fatimah as was the 4th Imam and the Mahdi. They believed he went into occulation at mount radwa, that he was fed milk and deer meat by a deer, and that two lions guarded the cave. They claimed Amir Mukhtar Thaqafi was from them, and that Muhammad ibn Hanifiyah would return and destory the Umayyads, and establish a divine kingdom. They died out after the Abbassad uprising . 
 

Muhammad ibn Hanifiyah had permission from Imam Hussayn to give permission to Mukhtar to take revenge because the Great Imam as knew the outcome, but was done in a way to protect the Immamah of Imam Sajjjad for being maytred too quick . Their is a deep science to the time lines of their Immamah, that’s why the famous narrations say Imam Mahdi as went into occulation due to fear, fear of what death no not being able to do the work and have the effect because the time and support weren’t there . Thus the waiting is an active waiting.

any way because people couldn’t understand this, they so conspiracies and hidden leaders where there wrent

Muhammad Ibn Hanifiyah was one of our followers 

Do not speak ill of Mukhtar …. He returned happiness to we the Ahlul Bayt 

Had Zayd Acheived what he wanted he would have given the right back to its owners 

these were all narrated in Abbassad period by Imam Sadiq as narrations from Umayyad time against these figures are fabricated or Taqiyah 

 

Thanks 

regarding mukhtar why did so many of the Iraqis who were loyal to imam Ali were so suspicious of him ? They gave only lukewarm support to him but gave support to tawwabun , ibn Ashath and ibn zubayr against Umayyad’s like Ibrahim b ashtar went so far as actively fighting with him I think 

[Ali Mehdi Samu Al-Kaysani]

15 hours ago, Panzerwaffe said:

Thanks 

regarding mukhtar why did so many of the Iraqis who were loyal to imam Ali were so suspicious of him ? They gave only lukewarm support to him but gave support to tawwabun , ibn Ashath and ibn zubayr against Umayyad’s like Ibrahim b ashtar went so far as actively fighting with him I think 

Mainly because he was not a Companion of Ali. Unlike men such as Molik al-Ashtar, Ḥujr ibn Adi, or Ibn al-Ashtar, Mukhtar had no long, proven record of loyalty under ʿAli himself.

 

Earlier Ties: He had once been involved with Ibn al-Zubayr and other non-ʿAlid circles before taking up the cause of the Ahl al-Bayt. This made many think he was an opportunist shifting allegiances when it suited him. His claim about how Muhammad ibn al-Ḥanafiyya was the rightful Imām/leader was jarring to many Shia of the time. Some Iraqis saw this as either heretical or at least confusing, and it divided the pro-ʿAlid ranks.

Mukhtar also claimed to receive special revelations/ilḥām from the angel Jibrīl through his lieutenant Abū ʿAmra al-Kaysān. That struck many as exaggeration or even fabrication. His strongest support base was not the old Kufan Arab tribal elite who had fought with ʿAli, but the disenfranchised non-Arab converts (mawālī) in Iraq. He elevated mawālī into military and leadership positions, which angered many Arab tribal notables who were used to dominance under earlier regimes. This made the “old guard” of ʿAlid loyalists wary, even though the mawālī were sincere in their devotion to avenging Karbalā. Mukhtar conducted brutal reprisals against those complicit in al-Ḥusayn’s killing at Karbala. While this seemed just to many, it alienated tribal leaders whose cousins or clansmen were implicated. Many Iraqis preferred the “purer” penitential movement of the Tawwābūn, who emphasized martyrdom and repentance rather than Mukhtar’s realpolitik and vengeance. Many Iraqis preferred Ibn al-Zubayr’s claim to the caliphate, which seemed more legitimate to them than Mukhtar’s messianic claims about Ibn al-Ḥanafiyya.

[Abu Hassanain]

On 9/29/2025 at 6:45 PM, Panzerwaffe said:

Thanks 

regarding mukhtar why did so many of the Iraqis who were loyal to imam Ali were so suspicious of him ? They gave only lukewarm support to him but gave support to tawwabun , ibn Ashath and ibn zubayr against Umayyad’s like Ibrahim b ashtar went so far as actively fighting with him I think 

salam

many people were being imprisoned or killed at that time . The tawwabun was mainly regretful people who betrayed Imam as and didnt go to help him, where as very few people outside of his base in hijaz supported Ibn Zubayr, and i was just convenience to align with him against common enemey the ummayyads.

Since we have clear narrations about the status of Amir Mukhtar from time of Imam Sadiq as we should consider him good, same with ishmeil ibn jafar, zayd, and zayds son. 

wallahu alam 

[Panzerwaffe]

On 10/6/2025 at 3:11 PM, Abu Hassanain said:

salam

many people were being imprisoned or killed at that time . The tawwabun was mainly regretful people who betrayed Imam as and didnt go to help him, where as very few people outside of his base in hijaz supported Ibn Zubayr, and i was just convenience to align with him against common enemey the ummayyads.

Since we have clear narrations about the status of Amir Mukhtar from time of Imam Sadiq as we should consider him good, same with ishmeil ibn jafar, zayd, and zayds son. 

wallahu alam 

I don’t think tawwabun betrayed imam necessarily they either didn’t show up out of cowardice or poor communication

afterall stalwarts like ibn sured ,  mikhnaf b  Sulaym , Rifaa b shaddad and saad b hudhaifa were amongst them. Whose devotion to Ali is unquestionable 

betrayal was from likes of Hajjar  b abjar , shibath  b Riba,a , Muhammad b Ashath , shimar b ziljawshan , yazid b harith , amr b Hajjaj etc who initially supported Alids but then turned against Hussain. 
but a lot of Arab Shias turning away or staying cold towards mukhtar points to another likely sinister twist , was Mukhtar championing the cause of Iranian converts under the guise of revenge for Hussain ? Was mukhtar trying to lead an Iranian revolution not a Shia one ? 
is that why son of Ashtar nakai left his side too ? 
This is possible as after he was defeated it was mostly his Iranian supporters who were butchered by ibn zubair while Arab ones like the great Amir b Wathila survived till time of Abdul Malik 

Edited October 8 by Panzerwaffe

[Ashvazdanghe]

1 hour ago, Panzerwaffe said:

I don’t think tawwabun betrayed imam necessarily they either didn’t show up out of cowardice or poor communication

afterall stalwarts like ibn sured ,

Salam respectfully  cowardice & betrayal & poor communication of   ibn sured has been confirmed .

1 hour ago, Panzerwaffe said:

Was mukhtar trying to lead an Iranian revolution not a Shia one ? 
is that why son of Ashtar nakai left his side too ? 

This is most ridiculous accusation against  both martyrs  which just has came from a mind of an ill minded person . 

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Sulayman_b._Surad_al-Khuza'i

https://erfan.ir/english/42467.html

https://www.shiavault.com/books/karbala-and-beyond/chapters/8-part-4-husayn-s-successors-nine-infallible-imams/

 

[Panzerwaffe]

4 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam respectfully  cowardice & betrayal & poor communication of   ibn sured has been confirmed .

This is most ridiculous accusation against  both martyrs  which just has came from a mind of an ill minded person . 

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Sulayman_b._Surad_al-Khuza'i

https://erfan.ir/english/42467.html

https://www.shiavault.com/books/karbala-and-beyond/chapters/8-part-4-husayn-s-successors-nine-infallible-imams/

 

“I’ll minded person “ is not a persuasive reason dear brother

Ibn sured was a outstanding companion of both Prophet and Ali and his status is far more than any revolutionary that was in a mukhtar camp 

even Abdullah b yazid the zubairi governer was more Alid than most Persian converts  

regardless the behavior of establishment Shia old guard of kufa needs to be explained in this time esp their attitude towards mukhtar movement 

Edited October 8 by Panzerwaffe

[Ashvazdanghe]

18 hours ago, Panzerwaffe said:

even Abdullah b yazid the zubairi governer was more Alid than most Persian converts  

Salam respectfully due to your grudge against Iranians you have done anything to downplaying them & forging false values for wicked people who have betrayed to Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) or anyone who have wanted to take avenge of his  martyrdom just due your blind hatred toward Iranians.

Edited October 9 by Ashvazdanghe

[Panzerwaffe]

On 10/8/2025 at 11:55 PM, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam respectfully due to your grudge against Iranians you have done anything to downplaying them & forging false values for wicked people who have betrayed to Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) or anyone who have wanted to take avenge of his  martyrdom just due your blind hatred toward Iranians.

I’ve spent countless posts on why Iran should not waste its lives or gold defending ikhwani and wahabis , not to mention I’ve always lauded the efforts of the press of Iranian govt in translating and publishing Islamic works 

add to that the contribution of Iranians to Islamic civilization in every sphere ranging from philosophy, jurisprudence to architecture and calligraphy is unparalleled 

Yet you accuse me of “ blind hatred “ 

simply because you cannot explain the inconvenient facts about 1st century Hijra 

So brother most respectfully this approach is exactly same as yahudi , any criticism of them even if well intentioned is lumped with  anti semitism 

 

 

Edited October 10 by Panzerwaffe