Considering Reversion and Sufism: Long, personal, possibly boring...

[Parzival]

As-salāmu ‘alaykum wa raḥmatullāh,

I've joined the forum in the hope that I can get all of this out there and maybe those with more knowledge can help me make sense of things. I should start by saying that I am stable (I'm not unwell, I know exactly what is going on) but I am having a lot of powerful "mystical" experiences at the moment and I have been having them in a strong way for a couple of months now. I genuinely feel Allah is as close to me as my jugular vein, I feel Him around me all the time at the moment, though there is also a strong quality of al-Batin, Allah being hidden and beyond anything the mind can latch onto. It's very destabilising. In a lot of ways, I'm in deep "mourning of the self". I feel like someone extremely close to me has died (all the crying, grief, etc.) and I think that "someone" is me. I see myself and my life clearly, the ways in which it will never be what I wanted it to be (my plans for my life were about trying to get this world to fit what only Allah can) and the pain that emerges from that, but I see the love of Allah too in protecting me and keeping me from things which would have really harmed me. Let me tell you how I got here...

I'm a man in my late 30s. My mother is an old-school English woman and my dad, who left this world a few years ago, was a Romani/"Gypsy" man (interestingly, through my dad, I have quite a lot of Persian, Kashmiri, Balochi and Anatolian DNA). I was born in England and I've been settled here full time since I was sixteen but I grew up across Western Europe, Australia and Canada. At home, we practiced a kind of traditional Romani mixture of things: God was supreme but bits of folk customs, magic and so on were all around too. Like a lot of Romani, my parents became Evangelical Christians when I was a teenager.

I never really went in for this but my parents conversion did cause me to start asking big questions and praying for guidance. Not long after this, I began to have powerful, unbidden encounters with Allah. They came while praying, sometimes even while just listening to music in bed, and they left me shaken, full of awe and longing. One moment in particular has never left me. At the time, I had no words for it. Years later, I found the writings of Mevlana Rumi, and there I recognised my own experiences reflected back to me.

At the same time, I began to realise that I was attracted to men. I won't use the word "gay" because, and I mean no harm to anyone, I have never felt like I belonged to the LGBTABC+++ thing. I was never interested in glitter and bad music but I tried to approach the alphabet community in my early twenties, thinking "I don't belong anywhere else, so I must belong here", but... like I said above, I have often found that Allah has guided me away from getting too involved with anything other than Him. There was always a kind of presence that I felt holding me back. For example, out of nowhere, as a man of twenty-one, I would suddenly feel too tired to move when invited to parties and protests, telephone numbers would go missing, that kind of thing.

Anyway, between the encounters with Allah and the awareness of desires, I really became an outsider among the outsiders, a wanderer among the wanderers. My life became very isolated and, in a lot of ways, it still is. I "belong" nowhere. I'm not fully Western, not fully Eastern. I couldn't do the usual thing of a wife and kids and I couldn't identify at all with the gay thing either. I couldn't be part of the the Romani world but there were no networks outside of that world for me. It feels a bit like Allah has designed my life so that I would never "fit in" anywhere, so that I wouldn't be comfortable and I that would always turn to Him for belonging. Seeing this clearly is what started the recent unravelling over the past few months.

Dealing with all of this over the years has led me to look at a lot of different religions and traditions. I spent a long time in paganism, making idols out of desires and hoping they'd bring happiness (it doesn't work) and I spent quite a while with Indian Trika/Tantra. I did find that more meaningful but, again and again, I would remember my encounters with Allah and I knew that what I had experienced was something much more Real than the world around me. To say "it's all one thing" seemed wrong to me. The more I thought about that, the more I began to feel gently guided by Allah towards other places...

I began reading the Sufis and I immediately felt at home there. To be honest there is a part of me that thinks I should just remain at that level: reading the Sufis and seeing what Allah does with me in isolation. There is another part of me though that thinks I should maybe say the Shahada and get involved with the ummah, even if it's just in a quiet way. I suppose that's why I'm here. I don't have issues with the sharia, I see that as Ibn Arabi said: "training for Jannah". I sometimes think about the Ghulam of Jannah as a kind of model for how I would like to be before Allah, purified, serving others and hoping my presence points believers back towards Allah. The prohibition on physical homosexuality doesn't really bother me: I pretty much live like a monk anyway and I don't think there's anything in my life that would bring scandal to a community. I think the general impression would be "He's a bit of a loner or artistic type of man, just let him be". Tell me if I'm wrong?

I had a major issue with the hadith concerning the marriage age of Aisha but my understanding is that the Shia also have issues with this hadith? My understanding of the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) is that he restored monotheism after the Jews left their covenant and started believing in their rabbis and the Christians introduced the trinity. In this sense, I see Islam as the correct path because it puts the soul in direct contact with Allah, with no rabbis, priests, counsels, etc. The cleanliness of that really "speaks" to me.

What do you all think? Would I be a "bad fit" for a mosque or a tariqa? Should I just say the Shahada and keep to myself? All honest, kind thoughts are welcome!

[Abu Hassanain]

Salam

first of all congratulations I’m not acting on your homosexual thoughts actions are a sin not thoughts. We all have different test.

Secondly, I would focus on Mulla Sadr Sabawazi Mullah Fayad Kashani Hafiz Shirazi Shaikh Bahjat Shahabadi Tabatabai 1 and 2 Sayyid Khumanyi etc if you like mysticism . SufiIsm is an innovation in a trap. We have specific narrations that are great is reliable from. Imam Jawad as they condemn them if you want to get close to Allah the Irfan approach is much better. It focuses on what you can do avoiding sins and not blindly putting your faith in a fallible spiritual guide.

As for discussions with your mother in remaining family, I would look at some YouTube videos or text about debating Christians and the prophet peace and blessings of his holy family and the New Testament. There’s one former Baptist preacher who converted in Guyana who’s done a lot of work I don’t know how much of it is online. I know there are others like him online. The goal is not to argue with your mother, but be to be able to present proof for what you believe when you have discussions

As for the age of Aisha they are varying opinions in the different schools that arranged from 6 9 12 16 28 40 28 etc the reports about her being very young or clearly fabricated and Ayatullah Jafar Subhani has addressed this very nicely in the book the message as well as other places. The opinion that she was 40 or 48 is held a small amount of researchers in Iran and Pakistan. It’s not a particularly strong view, but it’s an interesting view. Most likely at the time of marriage. She was 28. She had a husband who was killed at the battle of Badr, she was thus not a virgin and had been an idle worshiper before, and she resented the commander of the faithful because he slew her husband. She was offered to the Prophet because her father or to some interesting account, brother. Abu Bakr asked the Holy Prophet , peace and blessings upon him for this favor, and since he is a mercy to all worlds, he doesn’t turn down such a request, even though he knew she would be a problem. Khadijah peace be upon her was a virgin raising three of her nieces who was 28. They made one old and one young to slander and try to lower the level of Payaambar I Khuda sawa pbuhahf 

finally, I can’t tell you about England personally but I can tell you every community has its pros and cons. No community is gonna welcome you with open arms just because you accepted the faith nor are they gonna throw tomatoes at you and chase you with torches to a windmill like a monster it’ll most likely be something in between it could vary from place to place 

If you are looking for a social coup or acceptance of the people. This is not reconciled with spirituality and mysticism. I am not saying that’s what you’re doing, but rather seek Islam for the pleasure of Allah and the benefits. I can give to you as a human being
 

Please continue to post questions on the forum. I would declare my testimony of faith convert and start studying and practicing immediately.

[Parzival]

2 hours ago, Abu Hassanain said:

If you are looking for a social coup or acceptance of the people. This is not reconciled with spirituality and mysticism. I am not saying that’s what you’re doing, but rather seek Islam for the pleasure of Allah and the benefits. I can give to you as a human being

Thank you for your thoughtful answer.

To be honest, I think this is my test even more than sexuality is. I can quite happily live alone with my cat without involving myself in anything impure. Acceptance of people, of a community, on the other hand, that's the big test. It feels a bit like everything has been set up to make me really, really want that too whether it was not feeling connected to my own family and community or trying other "communities" and finding that I didn't feel at home there.

A Muslim friend (Sunni) tells me that this is a sign of "Allah's gheerah over you", the desire to belong but never being allowed to experience that in this world, always being forced, instead, to turn towards Allah for belonging. I think he's right. I do feel oddly kept on the sidelines a bit, like I'm not allowed properly engage with the wider world, like a wife kept away from the world. It is hard to explain but it is a real thing and I've stopped trying to fight it. 

It does make me wonder how to approach Islam though. In terms of belief, I haven't said the Shahada but I do accept the principles of Islam. I haven't started the daily Salah yet or sawm. My understanding was that a lot of that needs to happen within a community and that it's dangerous just to try doing this on my own without proper guidance?

3 hours ago, Abu Hassanain said:

The goal is not to argue with your mother, but be to be able to present proof for what you believe when you have discussions

Me becoming a Muslim would not go down well at all. My mother's understanding of Islam is what she's seen on the news and she will not be told otherwise. I have already accepted that me becoming a Muslim will probably mean losing her, but it will be her choice. My door is always open. Unfortunately though she's not an easy person to deal with. Of course, all of this again reinforces that feeling of being cut off from others that I talked about. 

I feel a bit like I'm saying to Allah, "OK, I get no sense of belonging, no community, no family, and, now, if I choose you, not even a mother. I will choose You but I cannot pretend that this is easy". 

[Hameedeh]

11 hours ago, Parzival said:

Me becoming a Muslim would not go down well at all. My mother's understanding of Islam is what she's seen on the news and she will not be told otherwise. I have already accepted that me becoming a Muslim will probably mean losing her, but it will be her choice. My door is always open. Unfortunately though she's not an easy person to deal with. Of course, all of this again reinforces that feeling of being cut off from others that I talked about. 

Salam. That is a possibility, but if you said something to cause her to reflect and understand Islam, how great would that be, not only for you but for her?

11 hours ago, Parzival said:

I feel a bit like I'm saying to Allah, "OK, I get no sense of belonging, no community, no family, and, now, if I choose you, not even a mother. I will choose You but I cannot pretend that this is easy". 

.....when your Lord made it known: If you are grateful, I would certainly give you more..... Holy Qur'an 14:7 

[Ashvazdanghe]

20 hours ago, Parzival said:

A Muslim friend (Sunni) tells me that this is a sign of "Allah's gheerah over you", the desire to belong but never being allowed to experience that in this world, always being forced, instead, to turn towards Allah for belonging. I think he's right. I do feel oddly kept on the sidelines a bit, like I'm not allowed properly engage with the wider world, like a wife kept away from the world. It is hard to explain but it is a real thing and I've stopped trying to fight it. 

Salam respectfully it's a wrong mindset which being  likewise a monk or total isolation from this world is forbidden in Islam which even Mulawi (the Rumi) has had social life & family which some of his poems dedicated to his son even he married his daughter with his mentor Shams Tabrizi  which although currently you are in a tough situation but don't lose hope for coming ease after hardship ; which nobody knows what will happen in future . 

[Essentials123]

My humble advice is to move past the desire to be a Sufi and move towards the path of Irfan. Most but not all Sufis are Sunnis but Shia mysticism is Irfan. Shia arafs / irfani still study Ibn Arabi (like the Sufis) however they build upon his work with Mullah Sadre. 

[Abu Hassanain]

2 hours ago, Azadeh307 said:

My humble advice is to move past the desire to be a Sufi and move towards the path of Irfan. Most but not all Sufis are Sunnis but Shia mysticism is Irfan. Shia arafs / irfani still study Ibn Arabi (like the Sufis) however they build upon his work with Mullah Sadre. 

Salam

but always remember one has to study general theology Ilm ul aqaid speculative theology Ilm ul Kalam logic Ilm ul mantiq Arabic grammar and possibly Persian grammar sarf nawh Farsi ethics Ilm ul akhalaq some basic jurisprudence Ilm ulsul wa Fiqh wa qawid  some basic commentary of Quran and commentary of peak of eloquence the science of narrations and narrators Ilm ul tasfir Ilm ul rijal ilm ul dariyat to have the basis to dive into a decent study of Islamic mysticism and it’s proper form as you mentioned Ilm ul Ifran

I’m doing a lot of worship can be done if you’re disciplined, but understanding the deeper meanings behind worship and reasons as much harder I’ll give one of the not often

The standing position of Salah Qiyam is Alif For Allah we stand for him first and foremost

the genuflecting position is Mim for Muhammad we acknowledge his authority because Allah who proceeds him commanded us

The bowing position Sajda is Ayn for Ali and his successor who you have submitted to after submitting to Muhammad in Allah, which fulfills the verse chapter 555 in the verse chapter 449

The other meaning is you start from a high state and go to a low state, but the lowest state is the highest state because bowing before a law is better than standing before a wall when you reflect the greatness of all

These discussions require knowledge of Arabic knowledge of traditions, knowledge of how reliable their traditions are basic and more specific theological principles. Knowledge of auto evaluate tax and read and understand them in the language they’re written.

I thought I understood mysticism when I first started studying and by doing a lot of worship, though mine is the most ratchet of the ratchet and lowest of the low some things were opened up by the divine mercy for me, but after studying additional subjects for a number of years a lot of the mystical knowledge makes much more

My father-in-law was a minor scholar. He used to teach the first and second level of the seminary, mostly specialized in ritual, cleanliness and washing the bodies, but he would sometimes teach the manners of the prayer by the late spiritual master. Sayyid Khumanyi he had a student who insisted on studying it without any preliminaries. He came back after attending the classes for a couple weeks and reading and studying the tax on his own and said he wished it had been written in Chinese then at least he wouldn’t feel bad.

So it’s good to study mysticism but really you should do the first half of the first level of seminary 23 years to get a foundation to delve into it

I mean if someone’s married or religious scholar or their family has religious scholars they can get some basics but really to really really understand it. You need all the sciences and even sometimes I wish I have bothered to learn Persian  better and stayed practicing it and listening to it in interacting with it  instead of just Arabic because there are so many good teachers who primarily teach in Persian

May we all benefit and be guided to the right path

Anybody who likes practical mysticism, I would recommend the methodology of Shaikh Bahjat Ra is the most efficient method because he focuses on both performing good deeds and eliminated in since whereas the methods of the other two prominent scholars who are not also political leaders focus on either not doing sins and just doing mandatory or doing good deeds and desirable relax he has the best combined method in his method is very similar to the author of self building and the leader of the revolution All rest his soul, but he had some more comprehensive and easy to understand me methodology 

May we all complete the four journeys in this life and meet the Lord understanding our true self

[Parzival]

Salam!

Thank you all. 

I wanted to update you and tell you that I said the Shahada with a Shi'a iman. I'm also talking to a tariqa but slowly, trying to move towards Irfan through reading (Ibn Arabi, Mevleva, etc.) and talking with others. I am less isolated than I was and feel like I could do something in the world other than just hide away.

I am grateful for your prayers!