if there are actually multiple worlds...

[Botak]

If multiple world truly exist, do you think there is a world where Yazid never ordered his troops to attack Imam Husayn as? Or a world where Imam Ali as is the first caliph? Would the whole multiple world thing break fate or ahadith?

Maybe i should stop to many scifi lol

[Eddie Mecca]

5 hours ago, Botak said:

If multiple world truly exist, do you think there is a world where Yazid never ordered his troops to attack Imam Husayn as? Or a world where Imam Ali as is the first caliph? Would the whole multiple world thing break fate or ahadith?

Anything is possible I suppose...we should keep our minds open 

[In Gods Name]

5 hours ago, Botak said:

If multiple world truly exist, do you think there is a world where Yazid never ordered his troops to attack Imam Husayn as? Or a world where Imam Ali as is the first caliph? Would the whole multiple world thing break fate or ahadith?

Maybe i should stop to many scifi lol

No brother, this could even be Kufr.

I love the whole idea of multiverses, other universes and other creations and perhaps Allah ha created and perhaps there are worlds unknown to us, Allah knows best.

However, this world is how things have gone down , because someone could say, what if there was a world Yazid was the child of the Prophet saw?

It leads to completely upending and changing the religion. I argue this sort of thinking can lead to exiting the religion. Prophets can be made non-prophets, evil tyrants can be turned into Prophets, we can cause sins between Prophets etc and change the religion under the guise of a multiverse.

Edited April 26 by In Gods Name

[TheWayofTheSalaaf]

5 hours ago, Botak said:

If multiple world truly exist, do you think there is a world where Yazid never ordered his troops to attack Imam Husayn as? Or a world where Imam Ali as is the first caliph? Would the whole multiple world thing break fate or ahadith?

Maybe i should stop to many scifi lol

The multiversity idea froma scientific perspective is absolute lunacy. It has no basis other than the need to explain how the universe came to be without a deity. The idea is that if you make an infinite amount of universes that some of them would randomly have the qualities to support life. Science has become a religion called scientism. The major flaw that easily destroys the multiversity is that you need a singular universe creating mechanism. The idea that this singular multiversity generator came about by chance is more improbable than a universe coming into existance by chance. I use to be very big into science until I learned what utter hogwash most of it is based on.

 

[notme]

12 hours ago, Botak said:

If multiple world truly exist, do you think there is a world where Yazid never ordered his troops to attack Imam Husayn as? Or a world where Imam Ali as is the first caliph? Would the whole multiple world thing break fate or ahadith?

Maybe i should stop to many scifi lol

Ok so I'm guessing what you mean is multiple universes, not planets, because we can look at the sky and see multiple planets. As far as we can tell, none of them have anything alive on them except ours.  

As for multiple universes it's a fun idea, but it would be impossible to ever know whether they were created or not. The existence of more than one universe kind of breaks the word - "universe" means all that exists. How would it make sense for there to be more than one "all that exists"? But words were invented by humans, so it's possible. 

[Ashvazdanghe]

16 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

However, this world is how things have gone down , because someone could say, what if there was a world Yazid was the child of the Prophet saw?

It leads to completely upending and changing the religion. I argue this sort of thinking can lead to exiting the religion. Prophets can be made non-prophets, evil tyrants can be turned into Prophets, we can cause sins between Prophets etc and change the religion under the guise of a multiverse.

Salam yeah it's possible that cursed Yazid could be son of Prophet (pbu) in similar fashion of son of prophet Noah (عليه السلام) or Qabeel son of prophet Adam (عليه السلام) which prophet has not a son from his wives due that after him nobody from children of his wives claim himself as his successor which birth of Ibrahim (عليه السلام) son of prophet Muhammad (pbu) so then his death after his birth has been a sign that there is no defect in prophet Muhammad (pbu)  also he is last prophet also his successors will be from lineage of  his daughter lady Fatima (sa) & Imam Ali (عليه السلام) so therefore although of being infallible Imams from progeny of prophet Muhammad (pbu)  they won't be prophets after prophet Muhammad (pbu)  .

Allah knows where & when to put his order which in opposition to your nonsense existence of multiple worlds doesn't cause changing in religion because creator of any multiverse is just one creator & just one God  which his power is limitless which nobody can imagine his power also nobody can limit him to just one world which surly creating multiple words & managing  all worlds doesn't cause his burden because he  is not a limited god to just one world ; which your nonsense would be true if each world in multiverse  has had different creators & different gods with limited abilities. 

 

 

Edited April 27 by Ashvazdanghe

[Ashvazdanghe]

21 hours ago, Botak said:

If multiple world truly exist, do you think there is a world where Yazid never ordered his troops to attack Imam Husayn as? Or a world where Imam Ali as is the first caliph? Would the whole multiple world thing break fate or ahadith?

Maybe i should stop to many scifi lol

What is the Islamic view of the parallel world that Westerners consider to be a proven fact?

Question: What is the Islamic view of the parallel world that Westerners consider to be a proven fact?

Brief answer: Evidence indicating the existence of parallel worlds can be presented in Islamic texts and teachings, and even some Islamic beliefs can only be scientifically explained with this theory; such as the divine covenant of Adam's descendants in the world of particles, the existence of the heavens and the skies, the existence of the world of jinn, the ascension of the Prophet Muhammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) (the ascension hadiths). Some of the views of Islamic philosophers and mystics regarding the types of worlds also confirm the existence of parallel worlds.

https://www.islamquest.net/fa/archive/fa12814

https://wikiporsesh.ir/دنیای_موازی_از_دیدگاه_اسلام

 

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The existence of other worlds is not only not a new theory, but has been proven. The world of matter, the world of form (Barzakh) and the world of spirit are the first information that man has about various worlds in religious teachings, which are also referred to as the worlds of "worldly life", "Barzakh life" and "the afterlife". Although the Holy Quran is not a specialized book on chemistry and physics that talks about organic chemistry or quantum physics, since it has underlying references to cosmology, biology, anthropology... and eschatology, it has strong and well-founded references to all these worlds and even life in them.

https://www.porseman.com/article/جهان-هاي-موازي-و-دين/185258

 

https://rahyafteha.ir/51542/نظریه-جهان-های-موازی-واشاره-قرآن-به-ای/

Yeah it's possible that Imam Ali as is the first caliph or cursed Yazid never ordered his troops to attack Imam Husayn (عليه السلام) which all of these events have been happened based on choice of people which if people have different choices so then our world could be different from current situation ;  anyway in all worlds after all types of choices of people Allah will  fulfil his promise by reappearance of Imam Mahdi (aj) because all people of all worlds will do last best choice so the Allah will fulfil their best last  choice as he promised . 

 

[Botak]

16 hours ago, TheWayofTheSalaaf said:

The multiversity idea froma scientific perspective is absolute lunacy. It has no basis other than the need to explain how the universe came to be without a deity. The idea is that if you make an infinite amount of universes that some of them would randomly have the qualities to support life. Science has become a religion called scientism. The major flaw that easily destroys the multiversity is that you need a singular universe creating mechanism. The idea that this singular multiversity generator came about by chance is more improbable than a universe coming into existance by chance. I use to be very big into science until I learned what utter hogwash most of it is based on.

 

The multiverse could be created by God, no?

[Botak]

17 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

However, this world is how things have gone down , because someone could say, what if there was a world Yazid was the child of the Prophet saw?

Yeah thats why i wondered if the theory could match with Islam

Maybe there are some fixed point in the unuverse where nothing change? Like no matter what world, Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) will always be the final Prophet

Its a trope i have seen where a character death or what not become fixedin the timeline and the main character have to "escape" fate... There is one story i really like that show this trope. Its just it contains haram content so I no longer deal with it 

[TheWayofTheSalaaf]

7 hours ago, Botak said:

The multiverse could be created by God, no?

There is simply no evidence of it existence. It a device used to explain the universe without a deity.

[PureExistence1]

Salaam, this is all very interesting, but how does it play out with our souls?

We each only have one soul so how can it be in multiple different worlds/places at once?

(I dont want to bring the hadith about Imam Ali(عليه السلام) appearing to many people in different places at the same time into this discussion for many reasons, one reason being that we are not at his level of soul and never will be so certain issues apply to him and not to us realistically speaking)

If our soul can be in many worlds at once and making different decisions, what does qiyamah look like? I dont even want to face my fate from THIS world, let alone from whatever else im supposedly currently doing in other worlds that i have no control over while in THIS world.

Being in different realms/dimensions of existence isnt a problem for me to understand as the urafa and other legit Islamic literature says our soul is multi dimensional, which is different than to say there are other physical "worlds".

Maybe we need to establish the exact definition of "worlds" in classical quranic arabic and make sure we have the right understanding because "worlds" and "different dimensions of the soul and existence" are not the same as far as i understand.

[Botak]

11 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

he  is not a limited god to just one world ; which your nonsense

I... didnt say He is limited tho? I say He is God, He can create all the worlds, ofcourse He can rule all of em

[Ashvazdanghe]

Combination of  Islamquest & other site for more details

A) What is a parallel universe? Currently, there are three types of parallel universes being discussed by physicists:[1] 1. Hyperspace 2. Multiverse 3. Quantum parallel universes

Scientists say: "Most of these parallel worlds are almost certainly dead worlds, consisting of subatomic particles such as electrons and neutrons. In these worlds, the proton may exist in an unstable form and gradually disappear, and as a result, composite objects have not been created." [8]

Of course, there is also disagreement among scientists about the existence of parallel worlds. Some believe that the belief in the existence of these multiple worlds is due to the holographic (illusionary) nature of the human mind and believe that these worlds are virtual. [9] On the other hand, some consider them to be real, like the tangible world.

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O company of jinn and humans! If you can pass through the confines of the heavens and the earth, then do pass through. But you will not pass through except by an authority [from Allah]. (33)

https://tanzil.net/#trans/en.qarai/55:33

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While for centuries scientists believed that the universe was infinite and boundless, today scientists such as Ranga-Ram Chary and Bill Poirier and... have obtained strong evidence for the theory of parallel universes, according to which our universe has a certain limit that ultimately ends in the quantum vacuum, and parallel to our universe there are also universes with certain limits.

Currently, it is not possible to observe and travel to parallel universes, because their dimensional arrangement and laws of physics are different from ours. (Perhaps in the future with much more advanced spacecraft...)

Who else but the creator of these universes centuries ago could have expressed these truths in these verses?

Parallel universes:

Our universe is full of unknown mysteries. Great astronomers and astrologers have searched the sky throughout history to discover the unknowns of the universe. These scientists began their efforts with the most basic astronomical equipment and have now reached very advanced devices to understand the universe. Despite this, human knowledge of the universe is still very small. Two scientists named Paul Steinhardt and Neil Torak, who are prominent in the world of cosmology, have proposed a theory that our universe may not be the only universe in this universe, but may be just one of hundreds, thousands, or even an infinite number of other universes.

 

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Their theory is that the three-dimensional worlds are located in a membrane world and that there are many membrane worlds in the universe, which are derived from the same cell membrane, one of which is our world, which is separated by a small distance from another membrane world. When the two membranes meet, they inject energy into each other.

The collision of these two three-dimensional worlds, our world with the other world, creates the Big Bang. Then dark energy pushes them apart for a trillion years (the expansion of the universe), the membranes flatten and come closer together again, and this process continues endlessly. Of course, the work of these scientists is in accordance with the theory of inflation of the universe. According to the theory of inflation, a small piece of a universe may suddenly swell and begin to grow. In this way, a child is born, which in turn may give birth to another nascent universe, and this process of birth and rebirth continues forever. Imagine the movement of soap bubbles in the air. If you blow hard on soap bubbles, you will see that some of the bubbles break in half and create new bubbles. In the same way, universes may continuously create new universes of their own.

They use string theory and its derivative theory, M-theory. In M-theory, there are not only four dimensions, but eleven dimensions. Ten spatial dimensions and one time dimension. M-theory could be a promising and unified theory of all the fundamental forces and components of nature, which these scientists are trying to unify with mathematical and physical formulas.

Their theory is that the three-dimensional worlds are located in a membrane world and there are many membrane worlds in the universe, which are taken from the same cell membrane, one of which is our world, which is separated by a short distance from another membrane world. When the two membranes meet, they inject energy into each other, the collision of these two three-dimensional worlds, our world with the other world, creates the Big Bang. Then dark energy pushes them apart for a trillion years (the expansion of the universe), the membranes flatten and come closer together again, and this process continues endlessly. Of course, the work of these scientists is in accordance with the theory of inflation of the universe.

Related video with Persian subtitles:

https://gadgetnews.net/4081/everything-about-parallel-universes/

Discovery of the first definitive evidence of the existence of other universes:

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Scientists at the University of North Carolina and Carnegie Mellon have identified the first definitive evidence of the existence of other universes. Cosmologists have examined a map of the universe from data from the Planck spacecraft and concluded that the map shows anomalies that could only be caused by the gravitational pull of other universes. The map shows radiation from the Big Bang 13.8 billion years ago, called the cosmic microwave background, which is still visible in the universe. Scientists had predicted that this radiation should be evenly distributed; but the map showed a greater concentration of it in the southern half of the sky and a cold spot that cannot be explained by current understanding of physics.

Laura Mersini-Houghton, a theoretical physicist at the University of North Carolina, and Richard Holman, a professor at Carnegie Mellon University, predicted in 2005 that the anomalies in the radiation were caused by the pull of other universes. Now that Mersini-Houghton has examined the Planck data, he believes his hypothesis was correct. (1)

 

 

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Evidence for parallel universes presented:

A cosmologist from the California Institute of Technology (Caltech) believes he has found proof that other parallel universes do exist. In a study published in the Astrophysical Journal, a researcher named Ranga-Ram Chary has shown evidence of cosmic interaction with another universe that can be used to identify anomalies he himself discovered in a map of the cosmic microwave background. (2)

Say hello to parallel universes:

Bill Poirier, a chemist and professor of chemistry at the University of Texas who studies the quantum behavior of complex molecules, has found evidence for parallel universes. Quantum wave mechanics allows scientists to make precise predictions. The rules for doing this are well-known. But Poirier realized that there was a completely new way to picture the quantum landscape. Parallel universes had to take the place of waves. The theory, called “interacting multiple universes,” was first published in 2010. “In 2013, at a symposium in Vienna, I gave a talk,” Poirier says. “No one objected, and that really surprised me, because it showed that my math wasn’t wrong. There’s no ambiguity in the theory. In each universe, particles are in certain positions. But these positions change from universe to universe, which is why we see a particle in multiple positions at once.” Moreover, the quantum communication of very distant particles, what Einstein called quasi-momentum, is really due to the interaction of nearby universes. (Quantum mechanics is a strange realm of reality. Particles at this atomic and subatomic level can appear in two places at once.) (3)

Where is the edge of the universe?

Our universe does indeed have an edge. That is, if we mean the observable universe. The speed of light as we know it, and the universe itself, has existed for a long time (about 13.8 billion years). This makes sense: we have only been shown parts of the universe that have been traversed. From our vantage point, it looks like we are at the center of everything, and all the other galaxies are receding away from us. This logic naturally calls for an argument: “There must be an edge.”

Suppose you landed somewhere in the Andromeda Galaxy, our nearest galactic neighbor. From that new perspective, you are at the center of the universe, and everything is constantly moving away from you. Even if we send you to the most distant visible galaxy in the universe, from that new perspective, you think you are at the center of the universe, and all galaxies, including the Milky Way in the distance, are moving away from you. (4)

It is currently not possible to observe and travel to parallel universes; their dimensional arrangements and laws of physics are different from ours. Perhaps in the future we will be able to with superpowers and with the acquisition of much more advanced technology and spacecraft… But there is a way to sense their presence: if two universes come close enough to each other, their gravitational attraction will pull everything with mass toward their respective edges.

https://rahyafteha.ir/51542/نظریه-جهان-های-موازی-واشاره-قرآن-به-ای/

B) Islamic Viewpoint on Parallel World

In Islamic texts and teachings, evidence can be presented indicating the existence of parallel worlds, and even some Islamic beliefs can only be scientifically explained with this theory; such as the divine covenant of Adam's descendants in the world of Zar(verse 172 of Surah Al-A'raf[10]), the existence of the heavens and the skies (in many verses of the Quran, the sky is mentioned in the plural form[11]), the existence of the world of genies, the ascension of the Prophet Muhammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) (the hadiths of ascension).

 

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When we say: “Alhamdulillah, Lord of the worlds,” «الحمد لله رب العالمین» we know that there are various worlds, and Allah, the Exalted, is the Lord and Master of them all. It is obvious that there is life in those worlds, and consequently movement and time, but not material time that is obtained from the rotation of the planets around themselves or each other. Because the sun and the earth, and the so-called carousel, are specific to this visible material world. Rather, time means “advancement and delay,” or before and after, which is another meaning of movement. The Holy Quran Therefore, we see that the Holy Quran speaks of a “day” at that time when the sun, earth, stars, planets, and galaxies no longer exist, and in order for humans present in this material world to understand the length of the day at that time, it says that one day is equal to 50,000 of your current years. And it mentions beings from other worlds such as angels and spirits.

تَعْرُجُ الْمَلَائِكَةُ وَالرُّوحُ إِلَيْهِ فِي يَوْمٍ كَانَ مِقْدَارُهُ خَمْسِينَ أَلْفَ سَنَةٍ ‎﴿٤﴾‏

The angels and the Spirit ascend to Him in a day whose span is fifty thousand years. (4) 

https://tanzil.net/#trans/en.qarai/70:4

https://old.aviny.com/shobhe/qorani/32.aspx

https://www.porseman.com/article/جهان-هاي-موازي-و-دين/185258

 

Some views of Islamic philosophers and mystics also support the existence of parallel worlds. Islamic philosophers have interpreted the world as "عالم". The Persian Encyclopedia states about the types of "عالم" and their definitions:

عالم, an Arabic word meaning the world, meaning all beings and everything except Allah (except the essence of  Allah), and for those who do not believe in the existence of God; meaning the sum of beings. Some ancients considered the universe to be the sum of physical entities, and they defined it according to Ptolemy's theory as follows: "That which is encompassed by the outer surface of the highest firmament (the firmament of the heavens)." What is within the outer surface of the highest firmament, according to them, was also of two kinds: the Alawi علوی world or the upper world; and the lower world; or the lower world. The upper world includes the heavens and stars; which are composed of ether, and the lower world includes elemental bodies or the four elements (water, fire, earth, and wind). The lower world or the world of elements was called the world of creation  کون(KUN) and corruption   فساد (FASAD) (i.e., the world of creation and corruption); because they believed that the upper world, which is the world of heavens and stars, and is composed of ethereal matter, is not subject to corruption, and creation and corruption are specific to the world of elements.

But those who believed in the existence of a world other than the physical world generally believed in two worlds: the spiritual world and the physical world. Islamic scholars, commentators, and theologians have given these two worlds names that are taken from the Holy Quran, such as the world of creation (i.e. the physical world) and the world of affairs (i.e. the non-physical world); or the world of testimony (the world that can be sensed, i.e. the world of tangible things or objects); and the world of the unseen (the world that is hidden from human senses and cannot be sensed, i.e. the non-physical world). Other names have also been given to these two worlds, such as the world of ملک (Mulk) and the world of ملکوت (Malakut); the world of creation and the world of eternity; the world of nature and the world of reason (the world of nature and the world of reason); and the world of the particular and the world of the total.

Sheikh Ishraq considers the number of worlds to be four:

1. The world of minds, angels, and close associates, which he calls the world of the higher lights ;

2. The world of souls, which he calls the world of the planned lights;

3. The world of the Barzakhs, which is the world of sense and includes the world of the heavens and stars and the world of elements;

4. The world of example and imagination, which, in his terms, is the world of suspended forms, dark and illuminated; and the souls of the wicked and the happy, are both in that world.

For the unseen world, under the influence of Neoplatonic wisdom and the school of Sufism, divisions have been made, such as the world of the kingdom (Malakut ملکوت) and the world of power(جبروت Jabarut), where the world of the Malakut is the world of truths, minds and souls, and the world of the Jabarut, according to some, is the world of the Barzakh (i.e. the intermediate world between the physical and the spiritual), and is also called the world of example. Some have considered the world of Jabarut to be the world of names and attributes. Al-Ghazali considers the preserved tablet to be part of the world of the Malakut, and Abdul-Razzaq Kashani considers it to be part of the world of Jabarut. Mulla Sadra considers the totality of factors to be three: the world of reason, the world of imagination, and the world of sense.

In the introduction to Sharh Fusūs al-Hikam, Qaysari considers the number of worlds to be five: the world of fixed objects, the world of Mulk (ملک), the world of abstract minds and souls, the world of examples, and the world of humanity (which is the sum of all worlds). In the view of Sufism, the totality of beings is called the world of the great, and man, who is the manifestation and sum of all worlds, is the world of the small. The world of لاهوت (Lahut) (derived from الاه meaning the divine world), which Hallaj has mentioned earlier, is roughly equivalent to the world of the unseen, and opposite to it is the world of nasūt ناسوت(derived from nasناس, meaning the human world), which is equivalent to the world of witnessing.[12]

[11] Such as verses 33, 107, 116, 117, 164, 255 and 284 of Surah Al-Baqarah.

[12] Gholamhossein Mosaheb (1380 Hijri Solar). Persian Encyclopedia, Vol. 2. Tehran: Scientific and Cultural, p. 1653.

The World of Zar in the Holy Quran

https://jqst.ut.ac.ir/article_63942.html?lang=en

https://wikiporsesh.ir/دنیای_موازی_از_دیدگاه_اسلام

https://www.islamquest.net/fa/archive/fa12814

Edited April 28 by Ashvazdanghe

[PureExistence1]

On 4/26/2025 at 6:03 AM, Botak said:

If multiple world truly exist, do you think there is a world where Yazid never ordered his troops to attack Imam Husayn as? Or a world where Imam Ali as is the first caliph? Would the whole multiple world thing break fate or ahadith?

Salam,

So if this exists, meaning, another "world" where the same people exist such as  yazeed, yet he made a different decision to NOT martyr Imam Hussain(عليه السلام), then how does yazeeds soul get judged on qiyamah? Meaning, he could actually end up in jannah as opposed to jahannam, so what is the ultimate fate of yazeed? His soul can not be in 2 places at once, meaning, in jannah and jahannam at the same time in order to be paid the correct and just consequences of his actions.

Also, what of in another world, yazeed is never born because his mom made different decisions and never had kids?

I have no problem with multiverses or the other possibilities. What i cant accept is our/my soul existing in more than one world at the same time and making different choices because then qiyamah doesn't make sense. If we say that our different lives exist at different time periods, then we have the problem of reincarnation to deal with.

[TheWayofTheSalaaf]

10 hours ago, PureExistence1 said:

Salam,

So if this exists, meaning, another "world" where the same people exist such as  yazeed, yet he made a different decision to NOT martyr Imam Hussain(عليه السلام), then how does yazeeds soul get judged on qiyamah? Meaning, he could actually end up in jannah as opposed to jahannam, so what is the ultimate fate of yazeed? His soul can not be in 2 places at once, meaning, in jannah and jahannam at the same time in order to be paid the correct and just consequences of his actions.

Also, what of in another world, yazeed is never born because his mom made different decisions and never had kids?

I have no problem with multiverses or the other possibilities. What i cant accept is our/my soul existing in more than one world at the same time and making different choices because then qiyamah doesn't make sense. If we say that our different lives exist at different time periods, then we have the problem of reincarnation to deal with.

The problem is it is speculation without any evidence. There is no evidence for a multiverse. It's an idea created to combat the idea of a god. The entertaining of an idea feels like it borders on kufr.

[Ashvazdanghe]

10 hours ago, PureExistence1 said:

So if this exists, meaning, another "world" where the same people exist such as  yazeed, yet he made a different decision to NOT martyr Imam Hussain(عليه السلام), then how does yazeeds soul get judged on qiyamah? Meaning, he could actually end up in jannah as opposed to jahannam, so what is the ultimate fate of yazeed? His soul can not be in 2 places at once, meaning, in jannah and jahannam at the same time in order to be paid the correct and just consequences of his actions

Salam fate & judgment  of cursed Yazeed will be due to his choice & intention "on qiyamah"  which even in our current world he could made a different choice ; which if his fate has been predestinated so then his punishment due to his solid predestination has been unjust ;  which according to Shia Islam it's matters of Amr bayn al-amrayn  (a theory between the two theories)  which Allah offers all possibilities for fate of anyone which anyone can chose between multiple fates which after choosing one fate after series of choices due to choosing first choice  so then he will reach to point of no return ; even there is some stories which Imam Sajjad (عليه السلام) has offered a way of salvation to cursed Yazeed even after martyrdom of Imam Hussain(عليه السلام) ;  which in similar fashion there is a story about offering a way of salvation to cursed Sahitan by prophet Musa (عليه السلام) which at end of both stories both of cursed Yazeed & cursed Shaitan  have refused their salvation offers due to passing their point of no return ; which they only can be in Paradise or hell but still which in case of making other choices by people so then  Amir al Mumin Imam Ali (عليه السلام) could be first caliph so then advent of cursed Umayyads would be nullified but people have made worst choices instead of best choices which due that innovators will receive a share of punishment of their followers until their innovation has been practiced by their followers  : which prophet Muhammad (pbu) has warned people about choices of people & consequences of their choices but unfortunately majority of people have ignored his warnings which leads to usurpation of right of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) & uprising of cursed Umayyads which in similar fashion Imam Ali (عليه السلام) in Nahjulbalgha has warned people about consequences of their choices too which when people have ignored their warning so then Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) have followed procedure of Allah about fulfilling his promise about them in future ; when people will make best choices after facing consequences of their previous  choices ; which it's possible that in another world or our world the Yazeed who has made right choice by giving up his rulership & reign so then giving it to Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) could be in heaven but he has chosen the worst fate . 

 

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 They will say, ‘Our Lord! We obeyed our leaders and elders, and they led us astray from the way.’ (67) Our Lord! Give them a double punishment and curse them with a mighty curse.’ (68) 

https://tanzil.net/#trans/en.qarai/33:68

22. Amir al-mu'minin, peace be upon him, said We have a right. If it is allowed to us well and good, otherwise, we will ride on the hind part of the camel (like lowly people) even though the night journey may be long.

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Hadith n. 22

22. Amir al-mu'minin, peace be upon him, said We have a right. If it is allowed to us well and good, otherwise, we will ride on the hind part of the camel (like lowly people) even though the night journey may be long.

22. وقال عليه السلام : لَنَا حَقٌّ، فَإِنْ أُعْطِينَاهُ، وَإِلاَّ رَكِبْنَا أَعْجَازَ الاْبِلِ، وَإِنْ طَالَ السُّرَى.

As-Sayyid ar-Radi says: This is a very fine and eloquent expression. It means that if we are not allowed our right we will be regarded humble. This sense comes out from this expression because on the rear part of the camel only slaves, prisoners or other people of this type used to ride. 12

قال الرضي: و هذا من لطيف الكلام و فصيحه و معناه أنا إن لم نعط حقنا كنا أذلاء و 

https://al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/selections-sayings-and-preaching-amir-al-muminin-ali#hadith-n-22

Quote

The theory was first proposed by Amir al-Mu'minin (a). Someone asked him about the nature of Qadar (fate). Imam recommended him not to enter such a complex and profound issue, but he insisted on his request. Imam said: now that you do not give up your request, know that regarding destiny, there is no predestination, nor delegation to mankind, rather something between these two (Amr Bayn al-Amrayn).^[4]

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Amr_Bayn_al-Amrayn

 

[Ashvazdanghe]

59 minutes ago, TheWayofTheSalaaf said:

The problem is it is speculation without any evidence. There is no evidence for a multiverse. It's an idea created to combat the idea of a god. The entertaining of an idea feels like it borders on kufr.

Salam world of عالمین (worlds) has been been as Allah the god of all worlds in holy Quran too which some people may use words of holy Quran for justification their Kufr in similar fashion which Khawarij have used words of holy Quran for justifying their deviation & disobeying orders of caliph of Allah Amir Al-Muminin Imam Ali (as) ;which in similar fashion some people in similar fashion of the Khawarij  may use the  idea of  multiverse for justifying their Kufr & "fighting the idea of a god" but it doesn't mean that the idea of the  multiverse is on border of Kufr  just because some people have used a good idea which can be used for proving god too ; for justifying   their Kufr & "fighting the idea of a god by misinterpretation of it .

[TheWayofTheSalaaf]

15 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam world of عالمین (worlds) has been been as Allah the god of all worlds in holy Quran too which some people may use words of holy Quran for justification their Kufr in similar fashion which Khawarij have used words of holy Quran for justifying their deviation & disobeying orders of caliph of Allah Amir Al-Muminin Imam Ali (as) ;which in similar fashion some people in similar fashion of the Khawarij  may use the  idea of  multiverse for justifying their Kufr & "fighting the idea of a god" but it doesn't mean that the idea of the  multiverse is on border of Kufr  just because some people have used a good idea which can be used for proving god too ; for justifying   their Kufr & "fighting the idea of a god by misinterpretation of it .

The problem is that the multiverse is literally an idea to explain how we have an orderly universe without a god. It's the idea that a single universe could not have orser without a god therefore we need an infinite amount of universes with an infinite combination so that some universes will look ordered by random chance. There is no religious or scientific foundation for such a theory. It's pure kufr.

[Ashvazdanghe]

10 hours ago, TheWayofTheSalaaf said:

There is no religious or scientific foundation for such a theory. It's pure kufr.

Salam respectfully it's just pure Salafi/Wahabi mindset which declares everything as pure Kufr & Shirk based on their false interpretation from apparent matters;  when Salafis & Wahabis can't  have rational arguments but on the other hand they are relying on their whims & wrong assumptions while ronically in similar fashion of evangelist "theory of flat earth" is too popular between Salafis & Wahabis in similar fashion of evangelist while their funny "theory has no religious or scientific foundation"

The Salafī tafsīr of the verses in which the creation and description of the earth is mentioned

Note:it's a Salafi Tafsir not the Shia Tafsir 

Quote

"Have We not made the earth as a bed (or a flat land).” (An-Naba 78:6) It was narrated in tafsīr Ad-Durr Al-Manthūr: َ

 Al-Hakim narrated – and he called it sahīh – from Ibn ‘Abbās who said: “When Allāh wanted to create the creation He sent a wind which caused the water to flow until it revealed a sea rock – and that is the one which is below the Ka’bah. Then He extended (or spread out) the earth until it reached whatever Allāh wanted of length and width. And it would sway like this – and he showed with his hand like this and like this (i.e. let his hand sway from side to side) so Allāh made the mountains affixations and pegs. And Abū Qays was among the first mountains that were placed in the earth.

 

Quote

Abū Al-Muhannad said in his risālah “Haqiqatul-Khalq”: “And notice that the shar’i perception of the earth is not merely that it has been described as being flat, rather it has been affirmed further with details of its length, width, the number of earths, the fact that they are above one another and the distance between them. And the description of the Nūn which is below it. And the mention of Hellfire which is in the seventh earth. And these are established details from the Sahābah who did not disagree regarding it. Then how is it possible that an agreement which is in opposition to the agreement of the Sahābah can be correct? Rather each one of these details are sufficient in refuting this imagined agreement.” So we say – and Allāh knows best – based upon what has been mentioned in this text so far of verses from the Qurān, ahādīth from the Messenger of Allāh (sallAllāhu ‘alayhi wa sallam) and narrations from the Sahābah (radiAllāhu ‘anhum) and those who followed them in goodness after them, then the following things all strengthen each other in pointing towards the earth being flat and not shaped like a globe.

 

Quote

Bishr narrated to us and said: Yazid narrated to us and said: Sa’īd narrated to us, from Qatādah: “And He spread out the earth after that.” This means: “He extended it (or made it flat or leveled it).”

Muhammad ibn Khalaf narrated to me and said: Warrād narrated to us, from Abū Hamzah, from As-Suddī: “He spread out.” He said: “He extended it (or made it flat or leveled it).” 

Ibn Bashār narrated to us and said: ‘Abdur-Rahmān narrated to us and said: Sufyān narrated to us: “He spread out.” He said: “He extended it (or made it flat or leveled it).”

https://www.al-aqeedah.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/The-Salafi-tafsir-of-the-verses-in-which-the-creation-and-description-of-the-earth-is-mentioned-ebook.pdf

another Salafi Tafsir

Quote

 

Tafsir al-Jalalayn

---

{ وَإِلَى ٱلأَرْضِ كَيْفَ سُطِحَتْ }

And the earth how it was laid out flat? and thus infer from this the power of God exalted be He and His Oneness? The commencing with the mention of camels is because they are closer in contact with it the earth than any other animal. As for His words sutihat ‘laid out flat’ this on a literal reading suggests that the earth is flat which is the opinion of most of the scholars of the revealed Law and not a sphere as astronomers ahl al-hay’a have it even if this latter does not contradict any of the pillars of the Law.

https://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=74&tSoraNo=88&tAyahNo=20&tDisplay=yes&LanguageId=2

Quote

Question #10/1: “Is the earth round or flat?”

Shaykh al-Albānī answers:

It could be understood from some of the āyāt from the noble Qur’ān related to this subject that the earth is stationary and flat, and it could be understood from some other (āyāt) that it is moving and orbiting. And this (latter) opinion is that which carries more weight in our view and agrees with the natural reality which every individual from the people perceives (to be true), whether he is a Muslim or a disbeliever.

https://alalbani.info/alalbany_eng_041.php

 

Note:it's a Salafi Tafsir not the Shia Tafsir 

 

 

10 hours ago, TheWayofTheSalaaf said:

. It's the idea that a single universe could not have orser without a god therefore we need an infinite amount of universes with an infinite combination so that some universes will look ordered by random chance. There is no religious or scientific foundation for such a theory.

There is universe with no order & by random chance which you have made your speculation based on whims of some random people who don't have enough knowledge about this matter  which if some  atheists or agnostics have claimed creating universes without order & by random chance for justifying their false ideas so therefore it doesn't mean invalidity of idea of existence of multiple universes while in opposition of them majority of muslims also some reliable non muslim scientists  believe to creating any universe based on order without random chance .

Quote

 

Quote

In December 1926 Albert Einstein wrote to Max Born that “[t]he theory produces a good deal but hardly brings us closer to the secret of the Old One. I am at all events convinced that He does not play dice.” Einstein was reacting to Born’s probabilistic interpretation of quantum mechanics and expressing a deterministic view of the world.

https://www.britannica.com/question/What-did-Albert-Einstein-mean-when-he-wrote-that-God-does-not-play-dice

10 hours ago, TheWayofTheSalaaf said:

The problem is that the multiverse is literally an idea to explain how we have an orderly universe without a god.

in opposition to your idea  multiverse shows limitless ability of Allah for creating multiple universe even with different set of  rules which managing all of these universes simultaneously  does  not cause a burden for him which also he has not limited to any rule or just a single universe as his creations ; which misinterpretation of it by some random atheists or agnostics doesn't lead to denying the God

 

[TheWayofTheSalaaf]

19 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam respectfully it's just pure Salafi/Wahabi mindset which declares everything as pure Kufr & Shirk based on their false interpretation from apparent matters;  when Salafis & Wahabis can't  have rational arguments but on the other hand they are relying on their whims & wrong assumptions while ronically in similar fashion of evangelist "theory of flat earth" is too popular between Salafis & Wahabis in similar fashion of evangelist while their funny "theory has no religious or scientific foundation"

The Salafī tafsīr of the verses in which the creation and description of the earth is mentioned

Note:it's a Salafi Tafsir not the Shia Tafsir 

 

 

https://www.al-aqeedah.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/The-Salafi-tafsir-of-the-verses-in-which-the-creation-and-description-of-the-earth-is-mentioned-ebook.pdf

another Salafi Tafsir

https://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=74&tSoraNo=88&tAyahNo=20&tDisplay=yes&LanguageId=2

https://alalbani.info/alalbany_eng_041.php

 

Note:it's a Salafi Tafsir not the Shia Tafsir 

 

 

There is universe with no order & by random chance which you have made your speculation based on whims of some random people who don't have enough knowledge about this matter  which if some  atheists or agnostics have claimed creating universes without order & by random chance for justifying their false ideas so therefore it doesn't mean invalidity of idea of existence of multiple universes while in opposition of them majority of muslims also some reliable non muslim scientists  believe to creating any universe based on order without random chance .

 

https://www.britannica.com/question/What-did-Albert-Einstein-mean-when-he-wrote-that-God-does-not-play-dice

in opposition to your idea  multiverse shows limitless ability of Allah for creating multiple universe even with different set of  rules which managing all of these universes simultaneously  does  not cause a burden for him which also he has not limited to any rule or just a single universe as his creations ; which misinterpretation of it by some random atheists or agnostics doesn't lead to denying the God

 

I think that equating it with flat earth is a logical fallacy. However I will say that I was involved in a great deal of scientific research and am a flat earther because of the data. I am greatly appreciative of what you have posted because I did not know that there was any islamic stance on flat earth (I thought there was no comments either way.) I am gratified that there are islamic sources and scholars who have supported flat earth from an Islamic perspective. I will definitively be studying this and adding it to my flat earth literature.

[Botak]

5 hours ago, TheWayofTheSalaaf said:

and am a flat earther because of the data

..........what

[TheWayofTheSalaaf]

8 hours ago, Botak said:

..........what

Have you ever looked at the data?

[Botak]

9 hours ago, TheWayofTheSalaaf said:

Have you ever looked at the data?

What kind of data?

From what i found the earth is round

[TheWayofTheSalaaf]

23 minutes ago, Botak said:

What kind of data?

From what i found the earth is round

It's a common assumption but have you ever asked yourself why you know that?

[Ashvazdanghe]

11 hours ago, TheWayofTheSalaaf said:

Have you ever looked at the data?

Salam the provided data from Salafi Tafsir has no validity because whole of it is against holy Quean & Sunnah & teachings of Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) even rationality ; which it just has been for showing that weired beliefs of Salafis-Wahabis-Evangelists  likewise believing to flat earth all have came from zionist kabbalah & other pagan sources.   

On 5/2/2025 at 9:21 AM, TheWayofTheSalaaf said:

I did not know that there was any islamic stance on flat earth (I thought there was no comments either way.) I am gratified that there are islamic sources and scholars who have supported flat earth from an Islamic perspective.

Salam  what I have posted has been for showing fallacy in Salafi/Wahabi viewpoint which is totally against Islam perspective which their weired beliefs likewise believing to flat earth is not Islamic att all ; which they have fabricated or forged everything in order to show their weired beliefs equal to Islamic perspective while their weired beliefs have total contradiction with the holy Quran even Sunnah & teachings of Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) which respectfully you have mistaken zionist oriented beliefs of Salafis-Evangelists -Wahabists equal to Islamic perspective. 

 

Note: from Sunni source although agrees with Shia viewpoint agaianst zionists & Kabbalah

Quote

The foundation of kabbalistic tradition is the search for an experience of close relation to God. According to kabbalistic thinking, God created everything He created in the universe also in man. The perfection of the godly macrocosm does personify itself in man who, as microcosm, is imperfect but nonetheless an image of the heavenly man Adam.

https://www.tauhid.net/kabbala-eng.html

 

Edited May 3 by Ashvazdanghe

[Botak]

6 hours ago, TheWayofTheSalaaf said:

It's a common assumption but have you ever asked yourself why you know that?

Well there are alot, but one of the thing that come to my mind is airplane path and anything related to aviation.

[Botak]

Also for the og topic at hand, what i was thinking is that there will be multiple versions of our soul in the afterlife, though apparently thats not possible?

[notme]

1 hour ago, Botak said:

Also for the og topic at hand, what i was thinking is that there will be multiple versions of our soul in the afterlife, though apparently thats not possible?

No, each soul is unique.  

[Abu Hadi]

The idea of the multiverse (multiple universes, multiple dimensions) is not something that is against Islam but it is also that should not be something shocking or novel to a Muslim, but at the same time there is no reliable hadith that I have ever heard of that discuss this topic. 

A multiverse is just another extension of the universe. This present universe is so large, we don't even know where it ends. Discussing something that is beyond that is just a nonsense discussion, IMHO, because it is sheer speculation with no evidence for it. At the same time, again, that does not mean that it doesn't exist. 

At the same time, the presence of a multiverse does not mean, necessarily, that it has the same people in it with alternate timelines. That, again, is pure speculation. There could be a multiverse which is another dimension with different beings who are similar to us, or not similar to us. It would just be another universe, but one that is no like ours and that we have no contact with so it is not relevant to us, which is why the Quran and hadith did not discuss it, or the Quran and Hadith might have not discussed it because it actually doesn't exist. 

You could say that the world of the Jinn is an alternate dimension. They live on earth, but in another plane of reality which we have no contact with. The same thing with the dimension of the angels. The Quran and hadith discuss Jinn, only to the point where they are relevant to us, i.e. to seek refuge in Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) from the whispers of the evil Jinn. Angels are also discussed, but only the parts that are relevant to us, such as the fact that they are the ones who bring revelation from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and they watch us and record our good and bad deeds. Jinn and Angels also have many other dimensions to them but these are not discussed because they are not relevant to us. 

[Ashvazdanghe]

22 hours ago, Botak said:

Also for the og topic at hand, what i was thinking is that there will be multiple versions of our soul in the afterlife, though apparently thats not possible?

What is the essence of the Ruh (Soul/Spirit) and why doesn’t the Quran explain much about it?

question

This is the meaning of verse 85 from Surah Al Isra: "They ask thee concerning the Spirit. Say:" The Spirit is off the command of my Lord: of knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you, (O men!)"
Please explain: 1- Why the Prophet didn't want to provide people with more information about the soul? 2- What is the soul according to the ahadith? Can it be seen?

2- What is the soul according to the ahadith? Can it be seen?

Concise answer

The term "Ruh" has different meanings in different fields of science, referring to a different meaning in each one. In the Quran, this term also has its own special meaning and has been mentioned in different ways.

Regarding the verse there are various opinions about which Ruh's essence the prophet is being enquired about: Ruh Heywani (the animal soul), Ruh Insani (human spirit; also known as Nafse Natiqah), Ruhul Qudus (the Holy Spirit), Gabriel or something that has a higher status than angels (which may also be called Ruh). What is for sure is that here, Ruh does not mean the animal soul that is mentioned in medical science, because learning about it is within the scope of science. Also the term cannot refer to Gabriel because the term Ruh has been mentioned in some verses next to the angels, which shows Ruh is something different than an angel; this is something that ahadith explicitly point out.

According to this verse all that can be said about the Ruh is that it is a Mojarrad (abstract and detached from material) being and a matter of Allah’s, and anything that is attributed and belongs to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is beyond time, place, matter or other physical limits.

Quote

Comprehending this divine being and understanding its levels is among the divine secrets that one can only learn of through disclosure; of course, one can be sure that the prophet was well aware of it. The reason why the prophet rejected to explain more about it was that the people did not possess the ability to comprehend his words about the Ruh and it would only make them confused. Therefore explicit descriptions of the Ruh are not mentioned in the Quran.

 

It became clear in the light of what was explained that because the Ruh is not a material substance and it is not limited within the boundaries of time and place therefore it can not be seen or sensed through physical senses, but some of its traces and appearances can take place through very light and subtle substance, namely the Mithali body (imaginal body) which is the form the soul takes on in the Barzakh.

It is also noteworthy that in the common terminology of some sciences, and also according to some ahadith, this same mithali body is apparently also called Ruh, the reason being that this body is inhabited by the soul after its detachment from the material body, bearing more capacity to show traces of the soul. This mithali body can be seen in its own world, but it shouldn’t be mistaken with the Ruh that is a matter of Allah’s and attributed to him, because the Ruh is beyond all of these things and is of the divine secrets.

Detailed Answer

1- Introduction:...........https://www.islamquest.net/en/archive/fa7218

 

Edited May 4 by Ashvazdanghe

[Ashvazdanghe]

22 hours ago, Botak said:

Also for the og topic at hand, what i was thinking is that there will be multiple versions of our soul in the afterlife, though apparently thats not possible?

Are there successive and parallel worlds along with this world, and is the human personality and the same soul present in all of these worlds? Question: Hello. Considering that Allah is creative and eternal, and His creation is also everlasting and eternal, can it be said that before our world, there were, are and will be other worlds. In terms of physical nature? And considering the hadiths that say that Allah's creation continues after us, and... because modern physics research seeks to explain and even prove the theory of multiverses for before the Big Bang and during the lifetime of the world.

My clear question is that assuming the correctness of this theory and the existence of worlds with a different or similar nature to this world, can it be said that we humans are all from a single soul, in different worlds and the accounting of each world is separate, what exactly do Islamic mystic scholars mean by other worlds?

Is there another self in another world in a similar or different state?

Or is there no human personality involved? Is the descent into this world a hell for the first paradise as claimed by Christians? And is hell a hell for the deeds of the world? Does this sequence continue until every soul tastes the punishment for sins and then reaches the original place, the first paradise? Is the creation of the creative Allah the same as His face?

 

Brief answer

1. Based on what is stated in the narrations, it can be said that there were humans before the current generation.

[1] Just as the possibility of the existence of humans after the current generation is also acceptable based on some sources. And based on the same narrations, it can be said that each generation has an independent resurrection and judgment.[2]

2. But creation from a single soul is related to this current generation.

3. The meaning of the worlds by Islamic mystics is sometimes the stages of spiritual journey and conduct, and in this case, it is not necessary for the world to change.[3] Sometimes, the meaning is the stages of creation; that is, the journey that man has taken from the origin of creation until he has reached the material world. It also refers to the stages that one must go through after this world.[4] Therefore, the words of the mystics do not mean having a similar or different situation in the other world, nor does it mean that the human personality is not present.

4. Since Adam's descent to this world was accompanied by the loss of the comforts available in heaven and the encounter with hardships in the world; therefore, it can be said that the descent to this world is a hell for the first heaven. And it is clear that hell is a hell for the bad deeds of man.

5. But the continuation of this situation, and in your words, a sequence, does not make sense; because this is the same as false reincarnation.[5]

https://www.islamquest.net/fa/archive/fa57531

In a long hadith from Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام), he said: Those who believe in reincarnation have abandoned the path and methodology of religion and have made misguidance attractive for themselves, and have forced their souls to wander in the land of desires... There is neither heaven nor hell, nor resurrection or ascension, and for them, the resurrection is the soul's exit from its own form and entry into another form[for them]. [3]

From the perspective of Islam, death is the end of worldly life and the soul's separation from the material body. It is at this time that the soul begins another life by joining a  Mithali body (an exemplary)  in the Barzakh. The exemplary body is similar to the material body, but it does not have many of the characteristics of the material body.

Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) says: When Allah takes the soul of a believer, He places it in a body similar to his worldly body... [4]

2. Regarding what fate a person will have after death, it should be said: In fact, a person experiences two deaths and two lives. The Holy Quran refers to this issue as follows: "They say: 'Our Lord! You have caused us to die twice and brought us back to life twice. Now we confess our sins. Is there any way out (of Hell)?'" [5] (https://tanzil.net/#trans/en.qarai/40:11)

Some commentators have said that the meaning of the two deaths and resurrections mentioned in the blessed verse is death on the last day of the life of this world and resurrection in the Barzakh, and then death from the Barzakh, and resurrection on the Day of Judgment for the sake of reckoning. [6] But what is the Barzakh?

"Barzakh" is a boundary, a barrier, and an intermediary between two things (matter and spirit, etc.), and the "world of metaphor" is called the world of Barzakh because it is the boundary between dirty (material) bodies and the world of abstract spirits, and the boundary between this world and the hereafter. [7] The world of Barzakh, which is sometimes referred to as the world of the grave and the world of spirits, is a world between this world and the hereafter. The reason for the existence of such a world is some verses and narrations.

https://www.islamquest.net/fa/archive/fa8062

Edited May 4 by Ashvazdanghe