Pakistan-India clashes 2025

[Guest Former.salafi]

Salam alaykum guys i remember a hadith about sindh being taking by hind and recently things have been flaring up.What do you guys think about this ? Can someone also explain this Hadith to me ?

[Meedy]

Can you provide more information about the hadith?

[Guest Terence]

I remember this hadith but not sure how strong is it. This current conflict made me think about it more.

On the authority of Hudaifa ibn Al-Yamaan that Nabi ﷺ said (in a lengthy Hadith):

…وخراب السند من الهند، وخراب الهند من الصين، وخراب الصين من الرمل،….

…And the destruction of Sindh is by Hind, and Hind will be destroyed by sine and Cine will be destroyed by sand…

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 4/24/2025 at 4:44 PM, Guest Former.salafi said:

Salam alaykum guys i remember a hadith about sindh being taking by hind and recently things have been flaring up.What do you guys think about this ? Can someone also explain this Hadith to me ?

Salam such hadith even rejected by Sunni scholars who have considered such narrations a fabrication .

20 hours ago, Guest Terence said:

I remember this hadith but not sure how strong is it. This current conflict made me think about it more.

On the authority of Hudaifa ibn Al-Yamaan that Nabi ﷺ said (in a lengthy Hadith):

…وخراب السند من الهند، وخراب الهند من الصين، وخراب الصين من الرمل،….

…And the destruction of Sindh is by Hind, and Hind will be destroyed by sine and Cine will be destroyed by sand…

According to Sunni site

‘Allamah Ibn Kathir (rahimahullah) states that this narration is not known/recorded in any of the reliable Hadith collections and has declared this narration a fabrication.

(Al Bidayah Wan Nihayah, vol. 17 pg. 59, An Nihayah Fil Fitani Wal Malahim, vol. 1 pg. 64/65)

The narration is not suitable to quote.And Allah Ta’ala Knows best.

Answered by: Moulana Suhail Motala Approved by: Moulana Muhammad Abasoomar. (From hadithanswers.com)

https://authenticseerah.com/2021/05/28/fabricated-hadith-about-the-destruction-of-some-nations/

This hadith has been graded as "Weak" in all Sunni sources by all of Sunni scholars.

https://www.islamweb.net/ar/fatwa/408790/رتبة-حديث-ويبدأ-الخراب-في-أطراف-الأرض-حتى-تخرب-مصر

in Shia books it has been mentioned from Tafsir al-Qurtbi which Al-Quratbi himself considered it as the "weak" report ,"without document"(without Isnad).

https://www.islamweb.net/ar/fatwa/408790/رتبة-حديث-ويبدأ-الخراب-في-أطراف-الأرض-حتى-تخرب-مصر

https://lib.efatwa.ir/44606/1/80

 

Edited April 26 by Ashvazdanghe

[Guest Terrence]

On 4/26/2025 at 6:29 PM, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam such hadith even rejected by Sunni scholars who have considered such narrations a fabrication .

 

Just because it's rated weak doesn't mean it's false  reason why I'm interested in it is cause it mentions sind (current Pakistan) vs India this is long before Islam or Pakistan even came to be in that region. They were not 2 different countries then. How would a fake hadith predict this? 

[Northwest]

I think that the current context has much to do with China. Pakistan is China’s link to the MENA vis-à-vis CPEC; the U.S. is trying to weaken Arab–China ties and divert foreign investment from China to India. The recent Kashmir incident dovetails nicely with a U.S.-backed India pressuring Pakistan on both flanks (the Afghan Taliban are now more aligned with India than Pakistan). Given Pakistan’s severe domestic problems, along with the international situation, a major India–Pakistan war might be more likely now than previously, i.e., the close-call standoff of 2001–2. Unfortunately, Pakistan is very much to blame as well, for its longtime support of Wahhabi–Salafi terrorism vs. its neighbours, including Iran. Pakistan has alienated many Muslims with its pro-GCC stances on Yemen, Israel, and so on. Currently Pakistan is largely isolated, the GCC having favoured India over time, and since Imran Khan’s ouster has weakened its ties to China, so few observers worldwide will view Pakistan with much sympathy during war. If war comes I think India could easily destroy Pakistan, given U.S./GCC backing, but China would likely intervene vs. India.

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 4/28/2025 at 10:40 AM, Guest Terrence said:

Just because it's rated weak doesn't mean it's false  reason why I'm interested in it is cause it mentions sind (current Pakistan) vs India this is long before Islam or Pakistan even came to be in that region. They were not 2 different countries then. How would a fake hadith predict this? 

Salam Sind & India always have been two different regions or countries which in all Islamic narration whether Sunni or shia hadith Sind always has been distinguished from India ; which the old Sindh in narrations includes Bangladesh & Kashmir too  which Sindh(The Indus valley) & India have been merged during muslim Mughal empire so then divided by colonizer Britain ;  which current Pakistan has been a part of Sindh which due to ultra nationalism & creation of division & enmity in region by colonizer Britain  current Pakistan  has been called as whole of Sind/sindh  ; which any time during clashes between Pakistan & India ; we will see poping up fabricated or forged narrations about encouraging Pakistan to attack India by hardcore radical Wahabis under guise of prediction of attack of Pakistan to India .

Quote

Sind was conquered by Alexander the Great in 325 b.c. and was one of the first areas on the Indian subcontinent to be influenced by Arab invaders in the early eighth century a.d. During the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries, it came under Mughal Muslim domination. The administrative province of Sind was carved out of the much larger province of Bombay in British India in 1936. Sind's Muslim majority destined that the area would become one of the principal provinces of independent Pakistan after partition in August 1947.

 

Yet unlike the strong identification of Muslim populations in northern and central India with Pakistani nationalism,

Quote

the political leadership of Sind was not closely aligned with the Muslim League of Pakistan's founder, Mohammad Ali Jinnah. Sind lost its status as an autonomous province when Pakistan's Constituent Assembly in 1955 adopted its "One-Unit Plan" for West Pakistan. Sind's provincial assembly and political identity were restored with the restoration of Pakistan's federal system in 1970.

 

Quote

A strong tradition of Sindi "nationalism" exists. Nationalists have championed greater provincial autonomy and have sought to defend politically and economically those in the population who have their roots in Sind. Sindi nationalists have long resented Pakistan's politically dominant Punjabi community. They chafed at the allotment, after independence, of large tracts of irrigated land to absentee Punjabi landlords, mainly from Pakistan's ruling Punjabi bureaucratic and military elites. Migrating Punjabis are also resented for taking over larger businesses and industries in the province. An unresolved and continuing bone of contention between Sindi nationalists and successive national governments of Pakistan has been the construction of numerous barrages and canals, which divert much of the Indus River's flow to the Punjab.

 

https://www.encyclopedia.com/places/asia/pakistan-and-bangladesh-political-geography/sind

Quote

https://www.harappa.com/

 

[hamz786]

On 5/3/2025 at 8:51 PM, Northwest said:

I think that the current context has much to do with China. Pakistan is China’s link to the MENA vis-à-vis CPEC; the U.S. is trying to weaken Arab–China ties and divert foreign investment from China to India. The recent Kashmir incident dovetails nicely with a U.S.-backed India pressuring Pakistan on both flanks (the Afghan Taliban are now more aligned with India than Pakistan). Given Pakistan’s severe domestic problems, along with the international situation, a major India–Pakistan war might be more likely now than previously, i.e., the close-call standoff of 2001–2. Unfortunately, Pakistan is very much to blame as well, for its longtime support of Wahhabi–Salafi terrorism vs. its neighbours, including Iran. Pakistan has alienated many Muslims with its pro-GCC stances on Yemen, Israel, and so on. Currently Pakistan is largely isolated, the GCC having favoured India over time, and since Imran Khan’s ouster has weakened its ties to China, so few observers worldwide will view Pakistan with much sympathy during war. If war comes I think India could easily destroy Pakistan, given U.S./GCC backing, but China would likely intervene vs. India.

You were not wrong about this being the most likely time India and Pakistan go to war. Indias just sent missiles over the border targeting supposed terrorists. Also reports that Pak is firing back. 

[Guest Terrence]

It's heating up India launching missile strikes in Pakistan now. Let's hope this fake hadith doesn't become real .

[Northwest]

10 hours ago, hamz786 said:

You were not wrong about this being the most likely time India and Pakistan go to war. Indias just sent missiles over the border targeting supposed terrorists. Also reports that Pak is firing back. 

Are you implying that the Pahalgam attack was staged? If so, how, and what is your reasoning? A Kashmiri militant group quickly claimed responsibility, only denying its role three days later—although at first it singled out settlers rather than tourists, interestingly. Had it not been involved, it might have disclaimed responsibility earlier, or at least blamed another force. Pakistan has a history of sponsoring militant factions in Kashmir, on both sides of the line of contact, although in this case both Pakistani officials and the accused are blaming India, noting that the BJP regime has rejected a China-backed proposal for an independent inquiry. So maybe the attack was some sort of false flag, but Pakistan’s actions to date have not lent this thesis much support.

At any rate, the U.S. has clearly lined up on India’s side, and intriguingly, Israel has publicly announced its support for India. A high-level Chinese official is signalling that China is prepared to respond militarily to a full-scale India–Pakistan war, implicitly blaming the U.S.’s trade war for the ongoing regional standoff. Russia, meanwhile, has sided with the U.S.–India–Israel axis on the attack, as it continues to be India’s main arms supplier, although the latter has attempted to diversify. At any rate, there are some signs that neither side wants a large-scale conflict, as no source has reported full-scale mobilisation by either India or Pakistan. (Previous altercations have not resulted in a major war either, i.e., that of 2019.)

[Sirius_Bright]

I sincerely hope that this gets de-escalated quickly. Only common people suffers. War is not good for either country. 

Also, Pakistan needs to understand that they should stop breeding terrorists on their soil or this will keep repeating. Such things seriously hampers nation's progress and its citizen's well being. 

[hamz786]

4 hours ago, Northwest said:

Are you implying that the Pahalgam attack was staged? If so, how, and what is your reasoning? A Kashmiri militant group quickly claimed responsibility, only denying its role three days later—although at first it singled out settlers rather than tourists, interestingly. Had it not been involved, it might have disclaimed responsibility earlier, or at least blamed another force. Pakistan has a history of sponsoring militant factions in Kashmir, on both sides of the line of contact, although in this case both Pakistani officials and the accused are blaming India, noting that the BJP regime has rejected a China-backed proposal for an independent inquiry. So maybe the attack was some sort of false flag, but Pakistan’s actions to date have not lent this thesis much support.

At any rate, the U.S. has clearly lined up on India’s side, and intriguingly, Israel has publicly announced its support for India. A high-level Chinese official is signalling that China is prepared to respond militarily to a full-scale India–Pakistan war, implicitly blaming the U.S.’s trade war for the ongoing regional standoff. Russia, meanwhile, has sided with the U.S.–India–Israel axis on the attack, as it continues to be India’s main arms supplier, although the latter has attempted to diversify. At any rate, there are some signs that neither side wants a large-scale conflict, as no source has reported full-scale mobilisation by either India or Pakistan. (Previous altercations have not resulted in a major war either, i.e., that of 2019.)

My apologies for any confusion. My meaning was that the Indian gov is claiming to have targeted supposed terrorist camps, when it's been reported that civillians were the casualties.

[Northwest]

1 hour ago, Sirius_Bright said:

I sincerely hope that this gets de-escalated quickly. Only common people suffers. War is not good for either country.

So far India’s response seems measured, targeting isolated camps rather than critical military-industrial infrastructure. Also, Pakistan is not in a position to escalate further, given its poor economy and domestic instability. I think this episode is a bit similar to the 2019 Pulwama–Balakot incident, as well as the 2008 post-Mumbai standoff.

1 hour ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Also, Pakistan needs to understand that they should stop breeding terrorists on their soil or this will keep repeating. Such things seriously hampers nation's progress and its citizen's well being. 

I doubt that Pakistan ever will. Its support for Wahhabi–Salafi terrorism is both systemic and reflects larger interests. Case in point: Pakistan only began disavowing terrorism—publicly, that is—after 9/11, when the U.S. needed cover for its agenda in Afghanistan. General Musharraf’s regime, on cue, conveniently took many ISI-backed militants into custody. (The U.S., then and now, still needed Pakistan as a wedge vs. regional powers such as Iran.) Nevertheless, Pakistan and its GCC patrons continued to support the terrorists. Most critically, Pakistan continues to foster the ideological basis of sectarianism.

[Sirius_Bright]

4 hours ago, hamz786 said:

My apologies for any confusion. My meaning was that the Indian gov is claiming to have targeted supposed terrorist camps, when it's been reported that civillians were the casualties.

That's called as collateral damage which is very sad. Do not expect Pakistani government to come forward and announce how many 'terrorists' were killed. Women and children deaths are reported most of the time to gather sympathy. 

[mahmood8726]

8 hours ago, Sirius_Bright said:

That's called as collateral damage which is very sad. Do not expect Pakistani government to come forward and announce how many 'terrorists' were killed. Women and children deaths are reported most of the time to gather sympathy. 

The shia mosque that india bombed and mercelesly killed shia civilians had takfiri terrorists? 

 

This is not collateral damage, pakistan being a hub of terrorism and takfirism doesn't excuse indias fascist government when they kill innocent people and use flimsy justifications as their "proof". 

 

So far both sides have been disgusting, shame on both countries, shame on india for starting this senless war by blaming pakistan imediatley without doing a proper investigation, shame on india for bombing mosques and killing innocents. Shame on pakistan for slaugthering innocents in india, I just saw a disgusting video of a child with its head open because of the pakistani shelling. 

[mahmood8726]

14 hours ago, Sirius_Bright said:

I sincerely hope that this gets de-escalated quickly. Only common people suffers. War is not good for either country. 

Also, Pakistan needs to understand that they should stop breeding terrorists on their soil or this will keep repeating. Such things seriously hampers nation's progress and its citizen's well being. 

Obviously, this war is stupid and will cause millions to die, pakistan and india should do what iran and pakistan did in 2023 and deescalate this fast, but both brainless countries seem hinged on wanting to destroy eachother. 

 

Whats worse is both pakistan and india are full of misinformation, theyre so focused on their stupud PR image. These 2 countries should be used as an example on why blind nationalism is a cancer. 

Edited May 8 by mahmood8726

[mahmood8726]

Now during this war, something caught my eye but I'm not sure what to make of it, Indias behaviour has been very uncharacteristic and weird, Ill show some telegram thread that I found intresting and wanted to see peoples thoughts on it:

https://t.me/NEWWORLDORDYR/33843

 

 | Why War Now?

- India's strikes on 9 locations in Pakistan that killed 26 civilians and wounded 50 are in response to an alleged attack in Pehelgam, Indian-Occupied Kashmir, that killed tourists, many of whom were international.

- Worse 'terrorist' attacks have taken place in India, with no apparent hostile action taken against Pakistan in the past. The Mumbai attacks of 26/11 killed a total of 175, with India alleging that it was also carried out by Pakistani-backed militants.

- Ajmal Kasab, one of the attackers, was famously interviewed by an Indian police officer. During the interview, speaking Urdu in an accent obviously foreign to Pakistan, he misgenders simple terms such as baraf para instead of baraf pari, which is to say, "It was snowing" while referring to snow in the masculine form, whereas it is feminine in Urdu. He misgenders more than once during the interview.

- Expressing remorse over his actions, he can also be heard saying "Bhagwan (the Hindu God) will never forgive me", which is an objectively unfathomable phrase for any Muslim to utter, whether Indian or Pakistani.

- These statements cast serious doubt on the origin of the attackers in the Mumbai 26/11 incident. They also provide a strong reason to doubt the credibility of Indian claims of Pakistani involvement in subsequent 'terror' incidents in India, such as Pehelgam. Let's now turn back to the current situation.

- A militant operation killing innocent tourists was carried out in Pehelgam, Indian-Occupied Kashmir, while JD Vance was visiting the country.

- Some interesting facts to contemplate when analysing this inident:

- Local Kashmiri militants (or those alleged to be backed by Pakistan) have never targeted tourists in the 77 years of conflict.

- The deaths of international tourists in Pehelgam, a Muslim majority area of Kashmir, poses a problem for the local Kashmiris the most, as they rely on tourism as their primary source of income in the region. Why alleged Kashmiri locals would carry out an operation that hurts their own livelihoods is an interesting thought to ponder.

- The Indus Water Treaty has never before been suspended, even during the 3 full-scale wars of 1948, 1961, and 1971.

- The suspension of this treaty before a day passed since the Pehelgam incident and without an investigation having taken place, suggests Indian premeditation and intent to incite war.

- India and Pakistan both are developing countries that cannot afford to go to war.

- India has never initiated war with Pakistan in the past. All 3 previous wars were triggered by Pakistan.

- Despite having existed for over 5000 years as one of the oldest civilizations in the world, India has historically never conquered any significant territory. It is not a warring nation. It is uncharacteristic of India to initiate war.

- India's attacks on Pakistan today, the deepest since the War of 1971, are evidently an open call to war instead of a limited operation. There is no rationale for India to attempt to initiate a war as that in no way benefits India.

- The incitement of this war only seems reasonable if an attack on Iran is confirmed. This would explain the premeditation and the uncharacteristically disproportionate reaction of India to the Pehelgam incident.

- It would make sense if India was ushered behind closed doors, much like Ukraine, to carry out this attack against Pakistan to prepare the operation theatre for a later attack on Iran.

- This would wound the only ally with a conventional military that could have offered meaningful support to Iran from the Eastern front whether militarily or non-militarily.

- If this is plausible, it would follow that the attack on Iran will be fitting of a scale that would compel it to require aid from its neighbours, (likely non-military, as Pakistan is unlikely to assist Iran militarily). The Indo-Pakistani war may just be the preface to a full-scale Iran/Israel/US war.

Edited May 8 by mahmood8726

[Northwest]

1 hour ago, mahmood8726 said:

The shia mosque that india bombed and mercelesly killed shia civilians had takfiri terrorists? 

This is not collateral damage, pakistan being a hub of terrorism and takfirism doesn't excuse indias fascist government when they kill innocent people and use flimsy justifications as their "proof".

@mahmood8726 The fact that India has specifically refrained from hitting Pakistani military targets suggests that the strike on the mosque was indeed an error; under the circumstances India would have little or nothing to gain by deliberately seeking out civilian targets, much less highly visible ones. (Incidentally, Indian restraint also argues against a near-term assault on Iran; otherwise India would be doing more to militarily coerce Pakistan into doing its bidding.) The Pahalgam incident, therefore, might have been initiated by a third party, although the Indian foreign secretary is now specifically indicting Pakistan. If so, then both sides surely know that the attack was engineered by provocateurs, rather than regional state actors. Perhaps the airstrike on the mosque was also a kind of false flag, designed to sow mistrust between both sides.

[mahmood8726]

3 hours ago, Northwest said:

@mahmood8726 The fact that India has specifically refrained from hitting Pakistani military targets suggests that the strike on the mosque was indeed an error; under the circumstances India would have little or nothing to gain by deliberately seeking out civilian targets, much less highly visible ones. (Incidentally, Indian restraint also argues against a near-term assault on Iran; otherwise India would be doing more to militarily coerce Pakistan into doing its bidding.)

I don't think it makes it an error, you certainly don't bomb mosques just like this with the flimsy justification that it's "terrorist infrastructure" without good undeniable evidence, it's a barbaric thing to do, it's just as barbaric and savage as bombing a hospital and in the case that some terrorist happened to be in one of the few mosques they bombed, that doesn't justify it either, you bomb these places when theyre being used to store ammunition and it's impossible to kill the people using that ammunition in another way, otherwise india is violating basic international law here and basic morality. Instead supporters of the bjp resort to stupid excuses like "it was 1 am, it looked suspicious, who goes to a mosque in 1am?".

 

 

The fact is, india, like pakistan is obsessed with their PR image, is going to bomb some random terrorist and bomb recklessly civilian targets and act like they were the one with restraint by saying "we informed iran to tell pakistan that our strike was going to be symbolic and only against terrorist targets." And thats what they did and iran told them to not be idiots and that they would not tell pakistan because this is such a stupid thing to do and told them to go tell pakistan themselves about their reckless plan.

Instead of taking irans advice, india decided to bomb pakistan and given pakistans reaction, I assume they were not informed by india.

3 hours ago, Northwest said:

The Pahalgam incident, therefore, might have been initiated by a third party, although the Indian foreign secretary is now specifically indicting Pakistan. If so, then both sides surely know that the attack was engineered by provocateurs, rather than regional state actors.

A third party doing it is something I suspected too, this could be either india that got convinced to behave in an unhinged manner that is uncharacteristic of them or its a false flag and its meant to prepare the stage to get iran bombed or make iran beg for a deal with america once they are in a weaker position, but this needs more evidence and the world doesn't revolve around iran either. 

3 hours ago, Northwest said:

Perhaps the airstrike on the mosque was also a kind of false flag, designed to sow mistrust between both sides.

That I doubt it. 

Edited May 8 by mahmood8726

[mahmood8726]

India and pakistan lateley have been hitting eachothers millitary targets, with the latest being india that claims to have destroyed some of pakistans air defences.

 

Medman who has been quoting pakistans MOD a lot latley, claimed that india exaggerated their claims on the AD destruction:

https://t.me/medmannews/21535

No. An HQ-9 has not been damaged by those dollar store Indian-Israeli drones.

 

@medmannews

 

 

 

They also seem to have both hit eachothers urban centers, india doing the latest strikes. 

 

 

Whats intresting is the drones india used are israeli made:

Pictures of the drones: 

https://t.me/medmannews/21534?single

 

Edited May 8 by mahmood8726

[GEU_40]

What's interesting is that people on the shia subreddit seem to be defending India's actions and justifying them. Are these isolated cases, or are Indian shia predisposed to defending Modi's actions?

[mahmood8726]

17 minutes ago, GEU_40 said:

What's interesting is that people on the shia subreddit seem to be defending India's actions and justifying them. Are these isolated cases, or are Indian shia predisposed to defending Modi's actions?

No, most shias dislike the fascist government of india. 

 

An example that I was just going to post now is this:

 

https://t.me/NEWWORLDORDYR/33921

 

Once they used to call them terrorists and insult their religion as a whole, today they refer to them as "martyrs"

 

Yesterday, when they themselves stormed their mosques, harassed Muslims, beat them, attacked them, violate the hijab of Muslim women, it was all seen as countering terrorists in a Hindu land

 

Today, the very same people they have been oppressing for a long time, are suddenly labelled as "our civilians" and they are given the title "martyrs"

 

An example of hypocrites from India who never cared about the Muslims in their country, nor moved an emotion for them and were seen as secondary, now suddenly use different tone when referring to them, why? Because these Indians were killed by Pakistan

 

Pakistan does not care about the Shias nor India care about Muslims altogether, what you are seeing from both sides, how they act like they care so much about the very groups they have been oppressing for years, to suddenly be referred to positively, is not out of humanity and realization, not for genuine and authentic unity, not because they truly value their lives, but to polish and brighten their image in media, they are just weaponizing the blood of the people they have been oppressing for years and have it as a card to unite people under their banner, it is nothing but a nationalist propaganda, in benefit of the regime and not the people

 

@NEWWORLDORDYR

[mahmood8726]

2 hours ago, mahmood8726 said:

India and pakistan lateley have been hitting eachothers millitary targets, with the latest being india that claims to have destroyed some of pakistans air defences.

 

Medman who has been quoting pakistans MOD a lot latley, claimed that india exaggerated their claims on the AD destruction:

https://t.me/medmannews/21535

No. An HQ-9 has not been damaged by those dollar store Indian-Israeli drones.

 

@medmannews

 

 

 

They also seem to have both hit eachothers urban centers, india doing the latest strikes. 

 

 

Whats intresting is the drones india used are israeli made:

Pictures of the drones: 

https://t.me/medmannews/21534?single

 

More on this

 

 

 

 

 

[Diaz]

This is exactly what the usa want. No one will benefit from this war except usa and Israel. First Russia and Ukraine, then Israel against hezb/hamas/houthis, now Pakistan against India. Maybe this or next year, China against Taiwan. People should start know who are their real enemies are.

[Vinni]

Can we just all agree that this was Britain's fault? "India" and "Pakistan" should've NEVER been made in the first place.

This is my hypothetical solution of creating South Asia:

1. Punjab & Kashmir shall be independent, and Haryana will be part of Punjab (also Kashmir will be united).

2. Sindh should be independent.

3. Balochistan should be its own country and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa will join Afghanistan.

4. The states of UP, Bihar, Rajasthan, Jharkhand, Chhattisgarh, and Madhya Pradesh will be united and create the Hindustani Federation.

5. Sikkim will be independent; Assam and Meghalaya will create one state and Arunchal, Nagaland, Manipur, and Mizoram will unite into the Northeastern States.

6. Kerala, Tamil Nadu, Andhra Pradesh, Telengana, Karnataka, and Goa will create the Republic of Dravidia.

7. Maharashtra will be independent, so will Odisha.

8. Bangladesh and West Bengal will unite and recreate the Bengali Sultanate.

[Haji 2003]

Pakistanis and Indians trading military 'facts' online. The market does not lie

 

Quote

CAC, which manufactures the J-10C and JF-17 fighter jets operated by the PAF, saw its stock price climb to CNY 71.08 on the Shenzhen Stock Exchange, up 18% from the previous close. The stock was last trading at CNY 68.88, still up 16.29%.

https://profit.pakistantoday.com.pk/2025/05/07/chengdu-aircraft-shares-surge-after-pakistan-claims-downing-of-indian-rafale-jets/

 

In contrast the maker of the Rafale has performed as follows:

 

[mahmood8726]

It's a war:

 

 

Videos in links below:

https://t.me/Middle_East_Spectator/18255?single

—BREAKING: Indian airstrikes against Nur Khan Airbase in Rawalpindi, just south of the Pakistani capital Islamabad

Videos show clear impacts.

@Middle_East_Spectator

 

 

https://t.me/tabzlive/35058?single

— Air defenses are targeting unidentified objects in Peshawar, northwestern Pakistan near the border.

Locals reported hearing 5 blasts.

@TabzLIVE

 

 

Image of pakistans NOTAM, showing this war is at a point of no return now: 

https://t.me/Middle_East_Spectator/18267

 

— BREAKING: Pakistan has issued a NOTAM, closing its entire national airspace to all traffic

 

@Middle_East_Spectator

 

India here bombed a commercial plaza in pakistan:

https://t.me/Middle_East_Spectator/18274

 

— NEW: At least one person has been injured following the Indian drone attack on commercial plaza in Gulberg Greens in the Pakistani capital Islamabad

 

@Middle_East_Spectator

 

 

Unrelated video, but still relevant:

https://t.me/Middle_East_Spectator/18272

— NEW: India's most senior national defense advisor, Major Gaurav Arya, calls Iran's Foreign Minister Abbas Araqchi a 'pig' on live TV – while Araqchi is in New Delhi.

 

He accuses Iran of being pro-Pakistan, as Araqchi was meeting with Pakistani officials some days ago – and he called Iran a 'terror-supporting state' for funding Hamas.

 

@Middle_East_Spectator

Edited May 9 by mahmood8726

[mahmood8726]

50 pakistani airfoce jets are on their way to india and theyre firing a lot of missiles, new delhi is apparently being bombed. This is getting nasty.

Edited May 10 by mahmood8726

[Diaz]

I thought they will stop after few days but it’s becoming worse than before. I hope the war stop in Pakistan and India because no one will benefit from it except the USA. 

[mahmood8726]

 

Indians claiming dogfights are taking place inside of india!! 

 

Im pretty sure this is unheard of in modern times, this isn't the 1940s anymore. Indians themselves are admitting this. This means india messed up horribly with their defense if this tweet is accurate. The last dogfight happened in 1969. 

 

 

Either the indians claiming this are talking nonsense, or india is in deep trouble. 

 

Edited May 10 by mahmood8726

[Northwest]

@mahmood8726 I think that you come across as being too pro-Pakistani (feel free to correct my impression). According to some reports, at the UN Security Council no one—not even its ally China!—backed Pakistani claims that the Pahalgam incident was a false flag. Of course, the UN session was off limits to journalists, but no one else is contesting Indian media’s claims. If Pakistan-based terrorists were not involved, or if the attack itself was a PSYOP using “crisis actors,” then surely friendly neutral states would have said so. Re: the Indus treaty: on 23 April Indian authorities had already done an investigation by 15:02 p.m., while the government suspended the Indus treaty hours later, around sundown, so I do not see anything suspicious here.

Re: Indian attacks on civilians: the head of the Pakistani Deobandi militia Jaish-e-Mohammad supposedly claimed that Indian strikes killed many of his relatives. Although only Indian sources have reported his statement, they indirectly line up with the information above. So any Indian strikes on civilian targets are almost certainly by mistake or by “rogue” military elements, rather than reflecting a central strategy of the Indian government. (There is also no real equivalence between Pakistan and India re: treatment of Muslims and minorities. During the Gujarat pogroms, Hindus across India did not retaliate by attacking Muslims en masse, but in Pakistan Shias and other minorities are attacked on far flimsier pretexts.)

Also, even if attacks on tourists are unprecedented, there have been numerous terrorist attacks on unarmed civilians, including pilgrims, in India-occupied Jammu and Kashmir by Pakistani militant groups such as Lashkar-e-Taiba (a Deobandi outfit) and Hizbul Mujahideen. Some deadly examples: the 1998 Prankote, Chapnari, Chamba, and Wandhama massacres (113 dead in all);  the 2000 Amarnath and Chittisinghpura massacres (up to 140 dead); the 2002 Qasim Nagar massacre (29 dead); the 2002 Kaluchak massacre (28 dead); the 2003 Nadimarg massacre (23 dead); the 2006 Doda massacre (57 dead); and so on. Just last year the same group that carried out Pahalgam executed a similar attack at Reasi.

I suspect that some people are putting pan-Islamism before actual facts here, though I could be wrong as well.

[Northwest]

On 5/8/2025 at 9:33 PM, Diaz said:

This is exactly what the usa want.

@Diaz Actions by Pakistan and/or its proxies precipitated this conflict, and the U.S./Israel are covertly backing India, so if anything the Americans did not want this conflict. Historically Pakistan deserves more of the blame for Deobandi-flavored, Wahhabi–Salafi-aligned, Takfiri terrorism in India, including India-run Jammu and Kashmir, as well as for sectarianism generally. The problem is that until recently a number of Western governments favoured Pakistan over India during the “war on terrorism,” with the Biden administration being especially partial to Pakistan after the coup vs. Imran Khan, but under Trump things have definitely changed.

On 5/8/2025 at 9:33 PM, Diaz said:

No one will benefit from this war except usa and Israel. First Russia and Ukraine, then Israel against hezb/hamas/houthis, now Pakistan against India. Maybe this or next year, China against Taiwan. People should start know who are their real enemies are.

The U.S. and Israel, just like Pakistan, contain different factional interests, often with very different outlooks, so this assertion arguably does not say very much. Re: the ongoing situation: the Pahalgam attack may have been done by certain elements of the Pakistani military-intelligence elite, but not others, and perhaps did not notify civilian elements. Maybe some of these elements were loyal to Biden-aligned factions of the CIA and are now trying to sabotage the Trump–Modi–Netanyahu nexus, as well as to trigger a wider conflict that draws in other powers such as China. At any rate, Pakistan deserves the preponderance of guilt here.

On 5/7/2025 at 8:21 PM, Sirius_Bright said:

That's called as collateral damage which is very sad. Do not expect Pakistani government to come forward and announce how many 'terrorists' were killed. Women and children deaths are reported most of the time to gather sympathy. 

This has been the case in Gaza as well, with Hamas failing to distinguish between civilians and combatants when releasing death-tolls. Independent estimates suggest that between third and a half or so of the casualties have been Hamas combatants, but some pro-Palestinian elements somehow try to claim that Israel only or mostly targets militants, though even as an anti-Zionist I find this claim to be rather implausible, given the nature of the urban environment and type of warfare going on in Gaza. Hamas, like these Pakistani militias, specialises in guerrilla-type asymmetric warfare, blending in with its civilian base, after all.

Anyway, decade after decade India has been the one to exercise restraint, while Pakistani state and society have undergone little or no introspection about the roots of sectarian terrorism. Recent trends toward a more general anti-Muslim hostility under the BJP/Modi still do not change the fact that Indian society is much more inclusive and nonsectarian than its Pakistani counterpart. This fact may be hard for pan-Islamists to accept, but truthfully, India is not alone in being more hospitable to Muslims and minorities than many Muslim lands are even to fellow Muslims (i.e., Shias). India vs. the KSA on Shias is no comparison.

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 5/9/2025 at 6:44 AM, Vinni said:

Can we just all agree that this was Britain's fault? "India" and "Pakistan" should've NEVER been made in the first place.

This is my hypothetical solution of creating South Asia:

1. Punjab & Kashmir shall be independent, and Haryana will be part of Punjab (also Kashmir will be united).

2. Sindh should be independent.

3. Balochistan should be its own country and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa will join Afghanistan.

4. The states of UP, Bihar, Rajasthan, Jharkhand, Chhattisgarh, and Madhya Pradesh will be united and create the Hindustani Federation.

5. Sikkim will be independent; Assam and Meghalaya will create one state and Arunchal, Nagaland, Manipur, and Mizoram will unite into the Northeastern States.

6. Kerala, Tamil Nadu, Andhra Pradesh, Telengana, Karnataka, and Goa will create the Republic of Dravidia.

7. Maharashtra will be independent, so will Odisha.

8. Bangladesh and West Bengal will unite and recreate the Bengali Sultanate.

Hi it has been planed by Britain which it has planted seeds of enmity by creating "India" and "Pakistan" based on a well calculated plan "divide and conquer"procedure for keeping nearly eternal war in these regions which all of so called eight  independence plans have been created by Britain based on divide and conquer  which even success of one of plans will cause more chaos & divide in thi region;  which for Example no4. both of so called Balochistan region in Pakistan   & Afghanistan  have been parts of Iran which have been conquered so then separated from Iran by colonial  Britain ; which the Balochistan region exists in both of Iran & Pakistan which whole of it belonged to Iran which a part of it has been separated from Iran by colonial Britain   in order to keep instability & enmity between both of Iran & Pakistan which in similar fashion Afghanistan has been separated from Iran  in order to Iran won't has access to India in similar fashion of era of Nader Shah ; which similar plan is following by zionist Israel in eastern borders of Iran about Kurdistan region  ; in similar fashion of separation of Balochistan & afghanistan from Iran for stopping access of Iran to occupied lands of Palestine & treating of Zionist Israel which creating such independent states in both of east & west of Iran is just in favour of zionist Israel based on old procedure of colonial Britain . 

[mahmood8726]

3 hours ago, Northwest said:

@mahmood8726 I think that you come across as being too pro-Pakistani (feel free to correct my impression).

After calling out pakistan for slaugthering innocents and their hypocrisy? I don't think so. But I have to admit, you do give india a lot of excuses despite india being known to be full of it and only caring about their PR, just like pakistan. I might be wrong here though.

3 hours ago, Northwest said:

According to some reports, at the UN Security Council no one—not even its ally China!—backed Pakistani claims that the Pahalgam incident was a false flag. Of course, the UN session was off limits to journalists, but no one else is contesting Indian media’s claims.

Neither is anyone from what I am aware confirming indias claims that pakistans government is behind it(i might be wrong, maybe they meant something else), except maybe countries like israel or other allies, but even they are saying "we support india in its fight against terrorism", I don't see an outright confirmation. It's been 2 weeks, most will call for deescalation and not say much.

3 hours ago, Northwest said:

If Pakistan-based terrorists were not involved, or if the attack itself was a PSYOP using “crisis actors,” then surely friendly neutral states would have said so.

Not necessarly, if they want the situation to deescalate, this is the same argument you made on 9/11 if I remember, that surely iran would have said it's a false flag, but things are never this simple.

 

And just to be clear, I am not confirming pakistans claims either, I don't know what really happened and I don't trust india or pakistan here, for all I know a third party could be involved, which you claimed initially and I tend to lean towards your theory, but india and pakistan want to find any excuse to kill eachother, so there we are. 

 

India was just stupid in starting this war and bombing pakistan, even if it's to "hit terrorist infrastructure", bombing another country you don't rule based on some flimsy investigation is about the dumbest thing to do. 

3 hours ago, Northwest said:

Re: the Indus treaty: on 23 April Indian authorities had already done an investigation by 15:02 p.m., while the government suspended the Indus treaty hours later, around sundown, so I do not see anything suspicious here.

That's not normal at all, these imvestigations don't take a few hours or a few days, especially from unreliable nations like pakistan and india who need their claims verified and scrutinized extensivley. Obviously some unreliable outlets like india today will say this. What this shows here is premeditation to start a war, these millitary preparations take months to prepare. 

 

This was just a stupid move from india

3 hours ago, Northwest said:

Re: Indian attacks on civilians: the head of the Pakistani Deobandi militia Jaish-e-Mohammad supposedly claimed that Indian strikes killed many of his relatives. Although only Indian sources have reported his statement, they indirectly line up with the information above. So any Indian strikes on civilian targets are almost certainly by mistake or by “rogue” military elements, rather than reflecting a central strategy of the Indian government. (There is also no real equivalence between Pakistan and India

This is just wrong at this point, after a few days now there is clear evidence both sides are targetting civilian infrastructure and civilians without any consideration. India yesterday even bombed a plaza with drones. With all due respect, this is an assumption you're making that they are rogue or making mistakes. I get it that you hate takfirism just like we all do here, but india isn't being considerate on civilians, they're obsessed with their PR like pakistan and will claim the wildest things to appease it's supporters and the fact they indiscriminently bomb civilian centers(not just terrorists) or mosques or shopping centers, should be proof of this.

3 hours ago, Northwest said:

 

re: treatment of Muslims and minorities. During the Gujarat pogroms, Hindus across India did not retaliate by attacking Muslims en masse, but in Pakistan Shias and other minorities are attacked on far flimsier pretexts.)

Because takfiris in pakistan are brainless apes. Indian "cow lynch mobs" are tamer than their pakistani counterpart, they will instead beat on random muslims they suspect of eating cow meat or they wrongfully accuse of doing something to some indian girl.

3 hours ago, Northwest said:

Also, even if attacks on tourists are unprecedented, there have been numerous terrorist attacks on unarmed civilians, including pilgrims, in India-occupied Jammu and Kashmir by Pakistani militant groups such as Lashkar-e-Taiba (a Deobandi outfit) and Hizbul Mujahideen. Some deadly examples: the 1998 Prankote, Chapnari, Chamba, and Wandhama massacres (113 dead in all);  the 2000 Amarnath and Chittisinghpura massacres (up to 140 dead); the 2002 Qasim Nagar massacre (29 dead); the 2002 Kaluchak massacre (28 dead); the 2003 Nadimarg massacre (23 dead); the 2006 Doda massacre (57 dead); and so on. Just last year the same group that carried out Pahalgam executed a similar attack at Reasi.

I don't think that I denied pakistan having terrorist attacks originate from them, as a matter of fact, I even listed worse terrorist attacks where india did nothing afterwards. Whats unprecendented is indias behaviour, which is true, this is the first time india behaves like this. 

3 hours ago, Northwest said:

I suspect that some people are putting pan-Islamism before actual facts here, though I could be wrong as well.

I am not, you even told me "There is also no real equivalence between Pakistan and India" in response to me saying that india and pakistan are the same here, if I was pro pakistani you would see a long list of brainless nonsense comming out from me.

 

Pakistan is obviously being incredibly stupid by not wanting to deescalate now and calling this a war and india which started this whole mess is left confused and shocked, not realising the gravity and stupidity of what their action a few days ago, just caused. India needs to realise theyre in a war now and they opened pandoras box a few days ago. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On an unrelated note:

The amount of lies and misinformation Ive seen comming from indian and pakistani channels is incredible, I had to leave certain telegram channels to not be bombarded with their nonsense, from india using Ai videos to pakistan using Arma3 videos. Theyre more obssed about how many jets they downed, rather than the civilians theyre killing. I really advise not trusting indian or pakistani sources on anything here, they're known to put PR before facts. 

Edited May 10 by mahmood8726

[Ashvazdanghe]

3 hours ago, Northwest said:

This has been the case in Gaza as well, with Hamas failing to distinguish between civilians and combatants when releasing death-tolls. Independent estimates suggest that between third and a half or so of the casualties have been Hamas combatants, but some pro-Palestinian elements somehow try to claim that Israel only or mostly targets militants, though even as an anti-Zionist I find this claim to be rather implausible, given the nature of the urban environment and type of warfare going on in Gaza. Hamas, like these Pakistani militias, specialises in guerrilla-type asymmetric warfare, blending in with its civilian base, after all.

Hi this is totally wrong  because in opposition to your nonsense about Hamas ;which in opposition to mindless rookie  Pakistani militias   , Hamas is a professional specialist in guerrilla-type asymmetric warfare due to having long term war with zionist Israel which clearly Israel only  or mostly targets civilians while Pakistani militias are mindless terrorists which their only tactic is hitting civilians so then run away in similar fashion of Zionist Israel because they have been trained by zionists agents  in opposition of Hamas . 

3 hours ago, Northwest said:

Anyway, decade after decade India has been the one to exercise restraint, while Pakistani state and society have undergone little or no introspection about the roots of sectarian terrorism. Recent trends toward a more general anti-Muslim hostility under the BJP/Modi still do not change the fact that Indian society is much more inclusive and nonsectarian than its Pakistani counterpart. This fact may be hard for pan-Islamists to accept, but truthfully, India is not alone in being more hospitable to Muslims and minorities than many Muslim lands are even to fellow Muslims (i.e., Shias). India vs. the KSA on Shias is no comparison.

lol Your nonsense about India is just a laughable nonsense  which Indian society in similar fashion of  its Pakistani counterpart. has been totally sectarian & conclusive which maybe India will better  a bit than KSA in shia case ; but it doesn't whitewash bloody hands of India about  massacring of minorities & hostility toward muslims  in India   which both of  BJP/Modi &  its Pakistani counterpart are just two sides of the same coin ; which in recent years majority of bollywood movies have been made based on procedure of spreading hatred toward non hindus & minorities which majority of their protagonists  in the Bollywood movies & Indian series have been appeared in similar fashion of Hindu gods even with special symbolic Hindu weapons from their temples to kill too many  non Hindus under guise of invaders or satanic forces in name defending India which  similar nonsense has been made by Pakistan in it's ISI backed series which the so called ISI protagonists have defeated antagonists in similar fashion of the Bollywood movies & the Indian series

Edited May 10 by Ashvazdanghe