Isa (as) Nafs is different from Allah ((سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى))

[Abu Nur]

Salaam Aleikum, 

This is the proof that the essence of Isa (عليه السلام) and Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is not identical. The same statement can be found in Quran and New Testament 

You know what is in my soul, and I do not know what is in your soul. You are the Knower of the hidden. Quran 5:116

Look how the same verse is related to New Testament, where not only Isa says that only Father knows what he does not know, referring the hour, but that the knowledge is exactly related to hidden where only Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is Knower of the hidden:

Mark 13:32 (ESV)

"But concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." 

[Vinni]

On 4/13/2025 at 6:55 PM, Abu Nur said:

"But concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." 

Hello! 

I would like to speak from a Christian perspective considering that I'm still a Christian as of now.

From what I was taught, the reason why Jesus did not know the time of the hour is because since the Son took on the form of human, he also willingly chose to "limit" his omniscience (according to the doctrine of kenosis - the renunciation of the divine nature, at least in part, by Christ in the Incarnation). 

But, yes, only the Father knows. 

[Abu Nur]

On 5/11/2025 at 9:54 PM, Vinni said:

Hello! 

I would like to speak from a Christian perspective considering that I'm still a Christian as of now.

From what I was taught, the reason why Jesus did not know the time of the hour is because since the Son took on the form of human, he also willingly chose to "limit" his omniscience (according to the doctrine of kenosis - the renunciation of the divine nature, at least in part, by Christ in the Incarnation). 

But, yes, only the Father knows. 

This is a Paul viewpoint trying to justify his religion, not Jesus. Jesus word are very clear and not deceiving when he talks about the monotheism. Every messenger and prophet uttered by their humbleness about the hour that they don't know and only God know it. 

[Silas]

If we narrow this down a bit, we can ask the question "what limitations did Jesus have in His human form" as Vinni explores above

Can Christ be perfect, without sin, and yet still limited?

Can Christ be all of those things, and yet be a prophet, and not God?

There are Christian denominations which stress that Jesus was omniscient and unlimited in his powers, and that the NT is not only inerrant, but without flaws and contradictions

I think that is a modern invention--the Catholic Church never stressed the perfect logic and inerrancy of scripture, and this is why we need tradition, the church, interpretation, etc. 

[Abu Nur]

Exactly. The problem with this limitation is that God can not limit himself and call Himself a God, He is the pure actualizer in Aristotelian term where there is no potentiality or less pureness. Unfortunality, you can clearly see how these thoughts really reflect how they try to compromise a monotheist religion to Roman polytheist religion.

[Eddie Mecca]

Aren't we all partly divine? Didn't Allah breathe His divine breath into each and every single one of us when Adam was created? I thought all three Abrahamic religions were more-or-less agreed on this

[Eddie Mecca]

18 minutes ago, Eddie Mecca said:

Aren't we all partly divine? Didn't Allah breathe His divine breath into each and every single one of us when Adam was created? I thought all three Abrahamic religions were more-or-less agreed on this

Qur'an states that Allah created Adam and then breathed His Spirit into him, bringing him to life. This act is described in Surah Al-Hijr (15:29) where Allah says, "So when I have proportioned him and breathed into him of My Spirit, then fall down to him in prostration". This verse emphasizes the divine origin of Adam's soul and his subsequent veneration by the angels. What does it mean exactly?... I don't know... one of the divine mysteries I guess

Edited May 24 by Eddie Mecca

[Abu Nur]

1 hour ago, Eddie Mecca said:

Aren't we all partly divine? Didn't Allah breathe His divine breath into each and every single one of us when Adam was created? I thought all three Abrahamic religions were more-or-less agreed on this

Manifestation of His Attributes and names, but not God as Himself. Christians claim that Jesus is pure actual, pure manifestation of God. 

[Eddie Mecca]

Related topic

 

[Eddie Mecca]

Muhammad ibn Muslim said: I asked Imam as-Sadiq (a) God’s saying (at 15:29; 38:72)…. And I have breathed into him from My spirit….: How did that “inbreathing” take place? He answered: “ the spirit moves like the wind, and it is only called “spirit” (ruh, in Arabic) because that expression is derived from (the Arabic root for) “wind”(ruh): so the word “spirit” was taken from the word for word “wind” because the spirits are similar to the wind. Now God connected that Spirit to Himself (in those Quranic passages) because He had specially chosen and selected it above all the other spirits. Likewise, He called only one house – the Kaaba- My house (e.g.22:26) only one of His messengers – Abraham- “My” Intimate-friend, and so on. So each (of those spirits) was created, formed, manifested, and sustained (by God).”

source: Knowing the Spirit by Ostad Elahi, p. 57