[Closed/Review]Leaving islam

[Abu Nur]

4 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

5]Islam's concept of Allah is undeniably sadistic when you break it down logically. First, the idea of eternal Hell for finite sins is pure cruelty. No matter how much someone questions or disbelieves, punishing them with never-ending torture is infinitely disproportionate. A just and merciful God wouldn’t sentence someone to eternal suffering for a few decades of mistakes or disbelief. Second, Islam commands violent punishments like cutting off hands for theft (5:38) and lashing for adultery (24:2). Instead of reforming people, these laws focus on inflicting pain and fear, which is the very definition of sadism. Third, the concept of predestination (Qadr) makes it even worse—Allah supposedly decides who will believe and who won’t (10:100), then punishes people for choices they never truly had. That’s like a dictator torturing someone for failing a test that was rigged from the start. A truly merciful and just being wouldn't behave like this.

 

Stop using word Logic because you don't use any logic here. It is not sadistic, because God does not take any joy or have pleasure for people torturing by their own self and action.  Read the definition of sadism. 

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First, the idea of eternal Hell for finite sins is pure cruelty

The problem with you is that you don't understand immortal soul that leads to infinity punishment or bliss. Here is a work of philosopher who use logic to derive proof for immortal soul, perhaps it will help you. 

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Allah supposedly decides who will believe and who won’t (10:100), then punishes people for choices they never truly had.

False. It is "It is not for any soul to believe except by Allah’s leave, and He will bring His wrath upon those who are unmindful."

God does not force anyone to believe or disbelieve, rather it is us who choose between these two. If you find God and do good deeds, this is because God allows it and you can not allow it by yourself, same goes with disbelief. 

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No matter how much someone questions or disbelieves, punishing them with never-ending torture is infinitely disproportionate.

Person who seek God and question is different from one who disbelieve. The seeker gets good end, while disbeliever get bad end. What evidence you have to know the measure of finite sin to say it is infinitely disproportionate?

Edited March 17 by Abu Nur

[mahmood8726]

5 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

Wow,what an intelligent argument.I am shocked,how ignorant some people are.

This is my last response to this thread,I don't want to waste more time on this death cult.

You have a lot of "last arguments" if you want to leave islam, why do you come back? It seems to me that you're very hesitant in your descision to leave islam and that's a good thing, this is why I urge you to not give up that early and research things properly. 

5 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

2. Patience doesn’t mean blind waiting.

You say a person who waits for answers is good, and the one who doesn’t is bad. But what if a person waits and never gets answers? Is that still good? If someone is seeking truth sincerely and doesn’t find it in Islam, is it right to tell them to suppress their intellect and just wait? That’s not patience—that’s stagnation.

Islam tells you to reason, no one here is promoting a suppression of intellect. The point he's trying to convey is to have a little patience, usually it's with patience and more research that someone will get an answer they were seeking. Obviously sometimes you won't get your answers, that doesn't mean you will burn in hell if you were sinciere, if that's something on your mind. 

5 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

4. Islam doesn’t lose anything if I leave? That’s irrelevant.

You say, "Islam doesn’t lose anything if I leave, but I lose everything." That’s an appeal to fear, not a logical argument. The truth of a belief isn’t determined by how much one might lose or gain but by whether it is actually true. Threatening loss isn’t proof of correctness.

I don't think he was trying to use that statement as proof that Islam is true, you're making an argument here for the sake of arguing. 

The appeal to fear here is making you understand the consequences of your actions and why it's a better idea to not be too hasty on this. This is by no means him claiming that this appeal to fear is proof of Islam.

It's like if you're about to do something highly risky and your friend tells you about the consequences of said action, so you can atleast not be hasty in your descision. 

5 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

5. The gratitude argument is flawed.

You say I “live on God’s earth, eat His food, and yet speak against Him.” But that assumes from the start that everything belongs to God. If someone doesn’t believe in Islam’s version of God, then this argument falls apart. I could just as easily say, “You live in a world governed by reason, yet you abandon reason to hold on to blind faith.” Would that convince you? Probably not.

?????? What kind of argument is this? 

His gratitude argument is perfectly good and not flawed at all. He's 100% right that everything belongs to Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) as he is the creator who made everything. When you're making the accusation that Islam is sadistic, this is a perfect answer to that claim, the fact is everything belongs to Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), including your body.

5 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

5]Islam's concept of Allah is undeniably sadistic when you break it down logically. First, the idea of eternal Hell for finite sins is pure cruelty. No matter how much someone questions or disbelieves, punishing them with never-ending torture is infinitely disproportionate.

5 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

A just and merciful God wouldn’t sentence someone to eternal suffering for a few decades of mistakes or disbelief.

Is it disproportionate if someone mass murdered 10 people including children in 30 seconds and got life in prison and then was only released when he died so he can be buried? No, even though he's going life on prison and will never enjoy life again due to his 30 seconds of horrible acts, it's not disproportionate at all.

Now you have your entire life committing the worst sin possible, which is disbeleif in Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) for decades and you die not believing in him. Not only that, but you missed the most important reason as to why hell is eternal in islam for very specific people and that is because they will never change, this has been answered a million times in islam and its a perfectly good answer, if these people were plucked out of hell and put back on earth, they would do the exact same thing they did before, even knowing full well what is their destination, that's the biggest reason they're eternally in hell, because they will never change. It's hard for you to beleive, but these people 100% exist, I've met many people who will never change no matter what you tell them. 

 

As for your claim that it's "mistakes", you're not going to jahannam for making genuine mistakes, no one goes to jahannam for slipping on a banana for example, stop making stuff up.

Neither will you go to jahannam for asking questions with sinciere intentions, if anything you'll be rewarded for not being intentionally lazy and actually trying to find out the truth with a genuine heart. As people told you here a million times, not all people who didnt beleive in islam will go to hell, a lot of people are jahil, most humans are jahil. 

 

5 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

Second, Islam commands violent punishments like cutting off hands for theft (5:38) and lashing for adultery (24:2). Instead of reforming people, these laws focus on inflicting pain and fear, which is the very definition of sadism.

-Sadism: the tendency to derive pleasure, especially se**al gratification, from inflicting pain, suffering, or humiliation on others.

 

These punishments are not done with pleasure. Again, you're disbeleiving in islam because you grew up with dogmatic ideals and Islam contradicts them, that won't make Islam wrong. 

5 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

Third, the concept of predestination (Qadr) makes it even worse—Allah supposedly decides who will believe and who won’t (10:100), then punishes people for choices they never truly had. That’s like a dictator torturing someone for failing a test that was rigged from the start. A truly merciful and just being wouldn't behave like this.

 

You're going all over the place, machine gunning every argument that you have unanswered, now you just threw in the basic polemics on predestination. 

These have been answered in diffirent forums: 

 

etc...

 

 

 

 

[realizm]

I have just made du`a that this thread be closed soon. 

[Abu Nur]

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