[Closed/Review]Leaving islam

[DANISH ALI]

So brothers,after a year of research and rational thinking,i have decided to leave islam.There are many reasons and tried to find the answers to them but all were unstatsifatory.

Some i have listed below

1] If God claims to be all loving why punish someone eternally,just for not believing.

I know people will say,if someone was ingnorant,God will be just and not put him in hell,but I am talking one who simply rejects islam,just because he didn't find it satsifcatory.Like 75% of the world.How is it just.I could have eloborated but let's keep it short.

2] Sex slaves: surah 4:24.

Clearly permits sex with war slaves.imagine killing someones family in war,then looting them and taking women as sex slaves.it is inhuman.

I know again, people will islam tells to be kind and just to slaves and free them as (kafara),but it allowed to capture them first place.They were sold in markets,raped.Just because they disbelieved.

Imagine the Hindus coming and doing the same thing.

Please think rationly.

3] Yajuj and majuj.

So you are telling me there are billions of people trapped behind a door for thousands of years and still with our technology we still haven't found them.wow!!

There many many more but this much is enough for a rational minded person and those scientific miracles of Quran,read about history and you will find all them discovered greeks or some other people way before islam.

Thanks for reading.

[calm_passenger]

2 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

So brothers,after a year of research and rational thinking,i have decided to leave islam.There are many reasons and tried to find the answers to them but all were unstatsifatory.

Some i have listed below

1] If God claims to be all loving why punish someone eternally,just for not believing.

I know people will say,if someone was ingnorant,God will be just and not put him in hell,but I am talking one who simply rejects islam,just because he didn't find it satsifcatory.Like 75% of the world.How is it just.I could have eloborated but let's keep it short.

2] Sex slaves: surah 4:24.

Clearly permits sex with war slaves.imagine killing someones family in war,then looting them and taking women as sex slaves.it is inhuman.

I know again, people will islam tells to be kind and just to slaves and free them as (kafara),but it allowed to capture them first place.They were sold in markets,raped.Just because they disbelieved.

Imagine the Hindus coming and doing the same thing.

Please think rationly.

3] Yajuj and majuj.

So you are telling me there are billions of people trapped behind a door for thousands of years and still with our technology we still haven't found them.wow!!

There many many more but this much is enough for a rational minded person and those scientific miracles of Quran,read about history and you will find all them discovered greeks or some other people way before islam.

Thanks for reading.

Assalamu Alaikum Dear Brother,

Thank you for openly sharing your thoughts. Your journey reflects a sincere search for truth, and I deeply respect that. Let’s reflect on your concerns together, with kindness and clarity, as Allah teaches us to "invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction" (Quran 16:125).

1] If God claims to be all loving why punish someone eternally, just for not believing.

Allah is the Most Merciful (Ar-Rahman) and the Most Just (Al-’Adl). The Quran emphasizes that "My Mercy encompasses all things" (7:156), yet His justice ensures accountability. Eternal punishment is not for mere disbelief born of ignorance, but for those who willfully reject truth despite recognizing it (e.g., 2:6-7). Allah judges intentions, circumstances, and access to guidance (4:165). For instance, someone raised in a remote tribe, never encountering Islam, is judged differently (17:15). Hell is a consequence of arrogance and persistent injustice—not a punishment for sincere doubt. Trust that Allah’s wisdom transcends our understanding: "Allah does not wrong anyone by as much as an atom’s weight" (4:40).

2] Sex slaves: surah 4:24.

The Quran’s mention of "those whom your right hands possess" (4:24) refers to a historical reality of 7th-century warfare, where captives were inevitable. Islam revolutionized their treatment:

Slaves were granted rights to dignity, consent in intimacy, and financial support (24:33).

Freeing slaves is a supreme act of virtue (90:13), and the Prophet ﷺ said, "Feed them what you eat, clothe them as you dress" (Bukhari).

The Quran’s gradual approach aimed to abolish slavery, not normalize it. Critically, modern scholars unanimously condemn slavery as incompatible with today’s ethical standards.

The horror of forced exploitation contradicts Islam’s core principles. The Prophet ﷺ condemned violence against women: "The best of you are those who are best to their women" (Tirmidhi).

3] Yajuj and majuj.

Yajuj and Majuj (Gog and Magog) are part of eschatological belief (Quran 18:94-98, 21:96). Their story symbolizes chaos contained by divine power until the appointed time. Their "barrier" may be metaphorical or beyond current scientific detection—much like dark matter or parallel dimensions. Belief in the unseen (ghayb) is central to faith (2:3). As Allah says, "We have created every thing in due measure" (54:49), and their emergence will align with divine wisdom at the End Times.
 

4] There many many more but this much is enough for a rational minded person and those scientific miracles of Quran,read about history and you will find all them discovered greeks or some other people way before islam.

The Quran is not a science textbook, but its alignment with natural phenomena (e.g., embryonic development, cosmic expansion) invites reflection on creation (3:190-191). While Greeks contributed to science, the Quran’s timeless coherence—revealed to an unlettered Prophet ﷺ—strengthens faith in its divine origin.

Brother, doubt is a natural part of faith. Let’s continue this dialogue with open hearts. Allah promises, "So remember Me; I will remember you" (2:152). May Allah guide us all to His light and grant you peace in your heart. 
 

[DANISH ALI]

3 hours ago, calm_passenger said:

Assalamu Alaikum Dear Brother,

Thank you for openly sharing your thoughts. Your journey reflects a sincere search for truth, and I deeply respect that. Let’s reflect on your concerns together, with kindness and clarity, as Allah teaches us to "invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction" (Quran 16:125).

1] If God claims to be all loving why punish someone eternally, just for not believing.

Allah is the Most Merciful (Ar-Rahman) and the Most Just (Al-’Adl). The Quran emphasizes that "My Mercy encompasses all things" (7:156), yet His justice ensures accountability. Eternal punishment is not for mere disbelief born of ignorance, but for those who willfully reject truth despite recognizing it (e.g., 2:6-7). Allah judges intentions, circumstances, and access to guidance (4:165). For instance, someone raised in a remote tribe, never encountering Islam, is judged differently (17:15). Hell is a consequence of arrogance and persistent injustice—not a punishment for sincere doubt. Trust that Allah’s wisdom transcends our understanding: "Allah does not wrong anyone by as much as an atom’s weight" (4:40).

2] Sex slaves: surah 4:24.

The Quran’s mention of "those whom your right hands possess" (4:24) refers to a historical reality of 7th-century warfare, where captives were inevitable. Islam revolutionized their treatment:

Slaves were granted rights to dignity, consent in intimacy, and financial support (24:33).

Freeing slaves is a supreme act of virtue (90:13), and the Prophet ﷺ said, "Feed them what you eat, clothe them as you dress" (Bukhari).

The Quran’s gradual approach aimed to abolish slavery, not normalize it. Critically, modern scholars unanimously condemn slavery as incompatible with today’s ethical standards.

The horror of forced exploitation contradicts Islam’s core principles. The Prophet ﷺ condemned violence against women: "The best of you are those who are best to their women" (Tirmidhi).

3] Yajuj and majuj.

Yajuj and Majuj (Gog and Magog) are part of eschatological belief (Quran 18:94-98, 21:96). Their story symbolizes chaos contained by divine power until the appointed time. Their "barrier" may be metaphorical or beyond current scientific detection—much like dark matter or parallel dimensions. Belief in the unseen (ghayb) is central to faith (2:3). As Allah says, "We have created every thing in due measure" (54:49), and their emergence will align with divine wisdom at the End Times.
 

4] There many many more but this much is enough for a rational minded person and those scientific miracles of Quran,read about history and you will find all them discovered greeks or some other people way before islam.

The Quran is not a science textbook, but its alignment with natural phenomena (e.g., embryonic development, cosmic expansion) invites reflection on creation (3:190-191). While Greeks contributed to science, the Quran’s timeless coherence—revealed to an unlettered Prophet ﷺ—strengthens faith in its divine origin.

Brother, doubt is a natural part of faith. Let’s continue this dialogue with open hearts. Allah promises, "So remember Me; I will remember you" (2:152). May Allah guide us all to His light and grant you peace in your heart. 
 

Same old answers, ok let me answer your replies.

 

1] The kafirs who reject isalm, and doesn't have faith in it are going to eternal hell.It is explicitly mentioned in Quran.i am not talking about ignorant tribe people who had no idea about islam, but kafir who rejects islam. Tell me how does a merciful God touture someone just because he doesn't believe in him. Tell me even if he doesn't believe, how does one justify eternal torture. We are talking about not trilion years of touture but an eternity of touture.Imagine A nice christin guy who studies islam and rejects it, he is a Good human being, yet the so called merciful God will burn him for eternity.

 

I would like to know how eternal touture makes sense.

 

2]Sex slaves.

 

Again why people blinded by the faith.islam prohibited Music althoughter but captivating women as sex slaves was permissible.Elite

 

You are telling islam revolutionsed their treatment, but it didn't explicitly prhohbit it. You kill someones family and then rape them. Then give them nice cloth and food.is this how islam revolutionsed their treatment.You are telling the  consent  was required but sorry for a  slave  she had no right but to obey the master.and relieve his sexual desires.Heck even if a wife doesn't listen to her husband wanting sex the Angels curse her whole night.

How do you justify their trade in markets and being treated like live stock.

The Hadith of trimidi you mentioned, I am sorry to inform, you but it is about ones wife and family not about sex slaves.

I could also provided hadith references from your Sunni books, but the above information is enough.if you want.

3] To claim their story is symbolic or their barrier metaphorical has been rejected by many scholars both shia and Sunni, because first Quran explicitly mentions them and it was the opinion of early interpretations like, of "ibn kathir".To be literally two tribes,not symbolic and barrier a literal one.

You can read  all early interpretations of Quran for yourself.

It's funny how who  relate them to parallel dimensions,i don't know i you know about science, but parallel dimension means a different set of reality althoughter which according to some scientist is not even confirmed.It is just a hypostois not even a theory.

More funny is to relate it to Dark matter.please use google.

If you claim it is symbolic, then you reject the opinions of like "ibn kathir", you also reject the claim of Quran to be clear and easy to understand.

So tell me which ayah to take metaphorically and which to take literally.

 

4] sorry to disappoint you again the embryology mentioned in quran is scientifically wrong.

It mentions that bones are formed before muscles, which was an ancient belief and which scientifically totally wrong since muscles and bones are formed at the same time.

The description of cosmic expansion is very vague and the ayah has meaning of  also (being capable), not only expanding.

Timeless coherence..

 

There still many issues like the marriage of prophet to his adopted sons wife.

To aisha according to Sunni sect at 9 age, according to my shia sect at 15, still both are problematic.Dont tell me it was 1400 year ago,it was normal.agh!

The ayah about beating of wife.Again some will beat lightly,some say beat with miswak.

I would like you all to watch Hassan radwan video about it.

Well Thank you brother.

No hate brother.

Thanks for replying.

[realizm]

11 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

Clearly permits sex with war slaves.

All due respect, this interpretation of yours must result from a lack of reading of the Qur'an, or should I say relying too much on anti-Qur'an arguments. 

By reading any translation of the mentioned aya, it is very unlikely that one comes to the conclusion that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) allows to take war prisonners as sex slaves. 

The verse only mentions that one should not seek to marry a women who is already married, except those who are 'owned as slaves' (and here, precaution may be taken when translating of 'ma malakat aymanukum') . 

Now where did the idea that women in wars may be take as captives and then sold as slaves ? 

My guess is that at that time, a woman could be married, the put herself (or be put by her relatives, not very clear, probably for financial reasons unfortunately) in a status of 'servant' and 'sold' to well off people, and be dedicated to them. Well, in that case, it would be considered as `urf that even though she did not divorce her husband, she left her household and thus was not tied to her previous husband anymore, without the need for a divorce. 

Now imagine if she had to divorce : the previous husband would have to pay her extra fees, while as we said the reasons were probably financial and they would be in dire conditions. Plus, they could never be halal to each other unless she became married to another man. 

So by entering the master's house she actually became dedicated to that man's house, which would in a way nullify her previous marriage and give the master the right to seek to marry her, and not just abuse her as you are saying. The verse says clearly that it becomes lawful to seek to marry them using your wealth, meaning honoring a wedding contract where she gives her consent. 

I know this is a scenario that requires thinking, but it looks much closer to a society based on akhlaq as depicted in the Qur'an, than what the anti-islam want us to look like : barbarians who loot, capture and rape. To justify this wicked interpretation, one should beforehand find a verse in the Qur'an saying that in a war, not only the spoils  ('anfal) are allowed, but also the women. 

 

12 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

3] Yajuj and majuj

It is clear that those are not litteral creatures under the earth.

 

12 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

1] If God claims to be all loving why punish someone eternally,just for not believing.

This, I have no answer honestly and I would not underestimate his bounty. But bear in mind He (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) also warns us that He is the One who punishes. Are you ready to endure His punishment, a punishment worse than anything you could imagine ? 

[DANISH ALI]

7 minutes ago, realizm said:

All due respect, this interpretation of yours must result from a lack of reading of the Qur'an, or should I say relying too much on anti-Qur'an arguments. 

By reading any translation of the mentioned aya, it is very unlikely that one comes to the conclusion that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) allows to take war prisonners as sex slaves. 

The verse only mentions that one should not seek to marry a women who is already married, except those who are 'owned as slaves' (and here, precaution may be taken when translating of 'ma malakat aymanukum') . 

Now where did the idea that women in wars may be take as captives and then sold as slaves ? 

My guess is that at that time, a woman could be married, the put herself (or be put by her relatives, not very clear, probably for financial reasons unfortunately) in a status of 'servant' and 'sold' to well off people, and be dedicated to them. Well, in that case, it would be considered as `urf that even though she did not divorce her husband, she left her household and thus was not tied to her previous husband anymore, without the need for a divorce. 

Now imagine if she had to divorce : the previous husband would have to pay her extra fees, while as we said the reasons were probably financial and they would be in dire conditions. Plus, they could never be halal to each other unless she became married to another man. 

So by entering the master's house she actually became dedicated to that man's house, which would in a way nullify her previous marriage and give the master the right to seek to marry her, and not just abuse her as you are saying. The verse says clearly that it becomes lawful to seek to marry them using your wealth, meaning honoring a wedding contract where she gives her consent. 

I know this is a scenario that requires thinking, but it looks much closer to a society based on akhlaq as depicted in the Qur'an, than what the anti-islam want us to look like : barbarians who loot, capture and rape. To justify this wicked interpretation, one should beforehand find a verse in the Qur'an saying that in a war, not only the spoils  ('anfal) are allowed, but also the women. 

 

It is clear that those are not litteral creatures under the earth.

 

This, I have no answer honestly and I would not underestimate his bounty. But bear in mind He (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) also warns us that He is the One who punishes. Are you ready to endure His punishment, a punishment worse than anything you could imagine ? 

Agh, sorry to say but you are arogant person, unlike the pervious response who at least tried to answer,i have given him the answer but hasn't been approved by the moderator yet. don't know if this will be too or not.

First of all,your reasoning is flawed and assuming i have interpreted the Quran wrong is just false.

Ok first of in surah mominun,quran explicitly allows the relation with [righ thand possessed women],the tafsir and historical background,if you had read and not guessed,you would have know it explicitly allows taking war slaves, regardless whether they were married or not.

What kind of trash argument is even this because of dire conditions women left husbands and went masters household, without needing divorce,it was legal for the master to have sex.sorry to say you no nothing.

First sex slave can be only acquired to war.

The  pervious marriage would only have been nuffiled if the husband was kafir who fought the war.

Please read the basic history first.

Then try to give arguments

 

2] i have given the detail answer but not approve by the moderator so.i will not write it again 

3] you admit you have no answer, because there isn't a single sane mind you would call eternal touture just.

 

[Ashvazdanghe]

12 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

I am talking one who simply rejects islam,just because he didn't find it satsifcatory.Like 75% of the world.How is it just.I could have eloborated but let's keep it short.

Salam at first your assumption about  rejection of Islam by  75% of the world is wrong also even still now majority of people follow footsteps of their fathers & ancestors as norms of their societies which only few of them maybe search about the truth which maybe convert to Islam or not convert to it to it due to fear from losing their status or even life  or pressure of their community & etc . 

12 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

If God claims to be all loving why punish someone eternally,just for not believing.

Your assumption about loving is wrong which true love contains both of reward & punishment which  you may receive  punishment for treason & cheating  in love but on the other hand blind ignorant  love is definition of Jews who have said that they are chosen people of God so therefore they will go to heaven even they disobey him & commit great sins. 

[DANISH ALI]

5 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam at first your assumption about  rejection of Islam by  75% of the world is wrong also even still now majority of people follow footsteps of their fathers & ancestors as norms of their societies which only few of them maybe search about the truth which maybe convert to Islam or not convert to it to it due to fear from losing their status or even life  or pressure of their community & etc . 

Your assumption about loving is wrong which true love contains both of reward & punishment which  you may receive  punishment for treason & cheating  in love but on the other hand blind ignorant  love is definition of Jews who have said that they are chosen people of God so therefore they will go to heaven even they disobey him & commit great sins. 

Funny Guy you are .ok you didn't reply the main arguments and you are telling that me true love contains both reward and punishment,and the punishment is to torture someone eternally.

Tell me if you loved someone truly,will burn her for eternity if you had the power just because she didn't love you back,or in this case didn't believe in God

How can you justify eternal touture.Answer me.

Will a mother no matter the sin be able to watch his son burn infinitely,let alone burn herself.I am pretty confident any mother, regardless of how Good or bad is chlid is spare anyone from eternally burning,if she had the power.

 

I admit that not all 75% are not kafirs but that was not the main point.please reply to the arguments provided.

[Guest Guest Abdallah]

20 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

you admit you have no answer, because there isn't a single sane mind you would call eternal touture just.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you haven't read them, this subject has been already addressed in other forums, so I suggest giving a read to get more diverse opinions on this subject. There other forums than these 3 I provided too, so feel free to search around. 

 

As a side note:

The issue here is you don't see disbelief in Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) as a big deal and that's understandable, in our modern world we are conditioned in a secular mentality. But the reality is disbelief in Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is a huge deal, it's worse than murder, it's worse than all sins, if a person heard the message of Islam and they willingly decided to not care enough or were rejecting out of arrogance, you can't expect Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) to put them in heaven or remove them from hell, they kind of asked for it. Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is the reason you're breathing, he's the reason you see, you walk, you feel, you enjoy moments and most importantly he's the reason you will have a chance to go to heaven if you just show sincerity. The arrogant and ignorant person sees all this and decides instead to spit on what Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) gave them. Then that same person who was warned, starts complaining they are in hell eternally, despite having their entire lives to think about it.

[Guest Guest Abdallah]

Another thing I forgot, 75% of the world is not going to hell eternally, this is a ridicilous statement. Most people are ignorant, if you find yourself in hell, it's because you really deserved it.

[Borntowitnesstruth]

On 3/5/2025 at 11:44 AM, DANISH ALI said:

1] If God claims to be all loving why punish someone eternally,just for not believing.

I know people will say,if someone was ingnorant,God will be just and not put him in hell,but I am talking one who simply rejects islam,just because he didn't find it satsifcatory.Like 75% of the world.How is it just.I could have eloborated but let's keep it short.

Dear brother, although I beg to differ that 75 percent of the population find it unsatisfactory, rather there is a great percentage of non-Muslims who are attracted to some sort of Islamic practice. However, even if we take it to be true, then I must tell you that there are two reasons responsible for it namely 1) people's own idleness not to expound the Islamic resources which will eventually make sense to them and 2) Negative propaganda against Islam which people take it without any reservations. So, for the first reason, people will be asked as to why they wasted their time and did not listen to the voices that kept on inviting them till they died, thus, misleading uncountable generations for which I ask you whether they deserve single punishment or countless punishments for misleading countless generations. And, for the second reason, if a person was willing to listen to Islam but it was propaganda or misinformation that led it astray, then Allah (عزّ وجلّ) is most merciful and beneficent and He (عزّ وجلّ) will reward that person for his willingness and punish only the propagandists who led him astray that is what Quran teachers: "No bearer of burden shall bear the burden of another person".

On 3/5/2025 at 11:44 AM, DANISH ALI said:

2] Sex slaves: surah 4:24.

Clearly permits sex with war slaves.imagine killing someones family in war,then looting them and taking women as sex slaves.it is inhuman.

I know again, people will islam tells to be kind and just to slaves and free them as (kafara),but it allowed to capture them first place.They were sold in markets,raped.Just because they disbelieved.

Imagine the Hindus coming and doing the same thing.

About this verse,. Firstly, you have to know that laws of Islam are conditional. When one sort of conditions are met, that type of laws are enforced and when other types of conditions are met, other type of laws are enforced. This law was specific to the era of primitive times, when enemies of Islam followed slavery too. However, the laws of slavery in non-Muslim societies were inhumane as compared to the Islamic laws of slavery where even a slave was allowed to file a complaint to a judge or Qazi. You will be amazed to know that you will find many instances of brutal behavior towards of Roman and other non-Muslims as a social norm but you will not find it to be social norm among Muslims rather on individual basis which were greatly condemned in Islamic society. Although you complain about Islamic conduct of slaves for sex yet you have none among those people as witness to be dealt as such. Now, there is in Islam three conditions by which people can have relationships, one is with a slave girl, one by temporary marriage and one by permanent marriage. All of these have similar characteristics but slightly varying rules. Relationship with a slave girl was like marriage, no one else was permitted to have relationship with her but her master so it was not like a sex-slave rather like a marriage and the children born out of it was legitimate and inherited the parents unlike Romans and other non-Muslim societies where slaves were not granted such protection and their children were considered illegitimate. Now, you might ask me whether she had choice for such kind of relationships? I would ask you whether the Muslim slaves in the camp of Romans and other non-Muslims had any choice? No, they didn't have. So, what should have Islam done for the Muslims, when their relatives were being subject to harsh treatment as slaves by the non-Muslim powers? The slaves had the status of prisoners of war but Muslim treated them well. And, if you ask me, whether it was the best the Muslim can offer to the Prisoners of war? No, they could do even better than that and that is what taught by Prophet Muhammad (PBUHHP) and his Ahlebait (عليه السلام) who always sought welfare of the slaves and who after teaching them freed them and then married some extraordinary women among them or allowed them way to prosperity. 

So, brother, you are living in modern times, brought up by modern psychological atmosphere where rules are different as compared to the primitive era but such rules were perfect according to the situation in which those people lived in which Muslims were the most humane people on the surface of the earth.

On 3/5/2025 at 11:44 AM, DANISH ALI said:

3] Yajuj and majuj.

So you are telling me there are billions of people trapped behind a door for thousands of years and still with our technology we still haven't found them.wow!!

As regards Yajuj and Majuj, there is some kind of knowledge kept hidden by Allah (عزّ وجلّ) about which He (عزّ وجلّ) has revealed only little information. The reason of this is that humans are so naive and curious that whenever they know a secret, they create a havoc in the world about it which makes world a messy place. Look at the concept of Aliens, how many people have died just because of this misinformation? Many went crazy, many committed suicide and even then the number of those who believe in aliens is not coming to an end. Some traditions tells us that humanity thrived from three sons of Prophet Noah (عليه السلام) from Ham, Sam and Yafis, the progeny of two children were called Yajuj and Majuj and progeny of the third son were believers. If we take this hadith, it means that Yajuj and Majuj are not different from humans so they could be a large human group whose intent has not yet been manifested because they are awaiting an opportunity because some hadith say that they will remain under submission until an appointed time when they will says insha-Allah meaning that they will find that now their days of submission are over as nature favored them by keeping humanity involved among themselves and as that will be the best opportunity to strike other humans while they are at their lowest. And, that is what the Islamic prophecies tell that when most of the wars end and most population will be shrinked, the Yajuj and Majuj will come.

[Borntowitnesstruth]

On 3/5/2025 at 10:44 PM, DANISH ALI said:

There many many more but this much is enough for a rational minded person and those scientific miracles of Quran,read about history and you will find all them discovered greeks or some other people way before islam.

Well, some might say that Greek or some other people came up with some of the ideas not all and even then those ideas did not became famous until Islam introduced to the humanity because their societies rejected them and guess what the word of Islam prevailed even in the scientific age. Why don't you ask those societies, why did they misled the scientific knowledge for thousand of years until Islam came and validated such knowledge. So, Islam is winning in all scenarios. 

[calm_passenger]

18 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

Same old answers, ok let me answer your replies.

 

1] The kafirs who reject isalm, and doesn't have faith in it are going to eternal hell.It is explicitly mentioned in Quran.i am not talking about ignorant tribe people who had no idea about islam, but kafir who rejects islam. Tell me how does a merciful God touture someone just because he doesn't believe in him. Tell me even if he doesn't believe, how does one justify eternal torture. We are talking about not trilion years of touture but an eternity of touture.Imagine A nice christin guy who studies islam and rejects it, he is a Good human being, yet the so called merciful God will burn him for eternity.

 

I would like to know how eternal touture makes sense.

 

2]Sex slaves.

 

Again why people blinded by the faith.islam prohibited Music althoughter but captivating women as sex slaves was permissible.Elite

 

You are telling islam revolutionsed their treatment, but it didn't explicitly prhohbit it. You kill someones family and then rape them. Then give them nice cloth and food.is this how islam revolutionsed their treatment.You are telling the  consent  was required but sorry for a  slave  she had no right but to obey the master.and relieve his sexual desires.Heck even if a wife doesn't listen to her husband wanting sex the Angels curse her whole night.

How do you justify their trade in markets and being treated like live stock.

The Hadith of trimidi you mentioned, I am sorry to inform, you but it is about ones wife and family not about sex slaves.

I could also provided hadith references from your Sunni books, but the above information is enough.if you want.

3] To claim their story is symbolic or their barrier metaphorical has been rejected by many scholars both shia and Sunni, because first Quran explicitly mentions them and it was the opinion of early interpretations like, of "ibn kathir".To be literally two tribes,not symbolic and barrier a literal one.

You can read  all early interpretations of Quran for yourself.

It's funny how who  relate them to parallel dimensions,i don't know i you know about science, but parallel dimension means a different set of reality althoughter which according to some scientist is not even confirmed.It is just a hypostois not even a theory.

More funny is to relate it to Dark matter.please use google.

If you claim it is symbolic, then you reject the opinions of like "ibn kathir", you also reject the claim of Quran to be clear and easy to understand.

So tell me which ayah to take metaphorically and which to take literally.

 

4] sorry to disappoint you again the embryology mentioned in quran is scientifically wrong.

It mentions that bones are formed before muscles, which was an ancient belief and which scientifically totally wrong since muscles and bones are formed at the same time.

The description of cosmic expansion is very vague and the ayah has meaning of  also (being capable), not only expanding.

Timeless coherence..

 

There still many issues like the marriage of prophet to his adopted sons wife.

To aisha according to Sunni sect at 9 age, according to my shia sect at 15, still both are problematic.Dont tell me it was 1400 year ago,it was normal.agh!

The ayah about beating of wife.Again some will beat lightly,some say beat with miswak.

I would like you all to watch Hassan radwan video about it.

Well Thank you brother.

No hate brother.

Thanks for replying.

please don’t take my words negatively. I apologize if anything hurt you... it’s never my intent. Your journey matters deeply. However, many of your critiques rely on superficial or anti-Islamic sources. If you leave Islam based on these, you risk being swayed endlessly by whichever voice shouts loudest. Instead, seek answers from qualified scholars, not YouTube or other social media. If you later meet a deep atheist or a sincere scholar, which conversation will bring you peace? Islam has withstood 1,400 years of scrutiny—trust it can address your doubts. Research with an open heart, not just a searching mind. 

Allah says, "So ask the people of knowledge if you do not know" (16:43). Don’t let fleeting doubts eclipse a lifetime of faith. The Prophet ﷺ said, "Islam began strange, and it will return strange. So give glad tidings to the strangers" (Muslim). May Allah guide us to what unites, not divides, and fill our hearts with His light. With unwavering care.
 

[123xo]

OP is arguing like islam needs him or relies on him lol it doesn't.

 

xo

 

[realizm]

16 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

First sex slave can be only acquired to war.

There is no such thing as a sex slave in the Qur'an. If so, then prove it. That will be my only request.

As for below :

16 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

Ok first of in surah mominun,quran explicitly allows the relation with [righ thand possessed women],

Surah Mu'minun talks about capturing women in wars ? Please read again brother, you are circular thinking. Trying to prove your point about a verse using a verse that does not prove your point is just baatil.

Using ahadith or human tafasir will NOT make you prove that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) told people they could rapture women. On the other hand Qur'an talks about women who leave the kuffar and join the ranks of believers. Those women, their wedding is nullified right, but does Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) say they had to become slaves ? Never.  

I still do think you read the Qur'an with misconceptions in your head that gave you a flawed understanding of what is discussed in the verses. 

Like in the first place, reading that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) says 'you are allowed to have sex with slaves who work at your house after marrying them', and misunderstanding it as the proof for 'your slaves are your sex objects'. 

Edited March 6 by realizm

[DANISH ALI]

1 hour ago, realizm said:

There is no such thing as a sex slave in the Qur'an. If so, then prove it. That will be my only request.

As for below :

Surah Mu'minun talks about capturing women in wars ? Please read again brother, you are circular thinking. Trying to prove your point about a verse using a verse that does not prove your point is just baatil.

Using ahadith or human tafasir will NOT make you prove that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) told people they could rapture women. On the other hand Qur'an talks about women who leave the kuffar and join the ranks of believers. Those women, their wedding is nullified right, but does Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) say they had to become slaves ? Never.  

I still do think you read the Qur'an with misconceptions in your head that gave you a flawed understanding of what is discussed in the verses. 

Like in the first place, reading that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) says 'you are allowed to have sex with slaves who work at your house after marrying them', and misunderstanding it as the proof for 'your slaves are your sex objects'. 

Somebody give this guy a history book.

The right hand possesed women mean those women which are captured during war.could please bother reading tafsir of ayat 4:24.

[DANISH ALI]

5 hours ago, Borntowitnesstruth said:

Dear brother, although I beg to differ that 75 percent of the population find it unsatisfactory, rather there is a great percentage of non-Muslims who are attracted to some sort of Islamic practice. However, even if we take it to be true, then I must tell you that there are two reasons responsible for it namely 1) people's own idleness not to expound the Islamic resources which will eventually make sense to them and 2) Negative propaganda against Islam which people take it without any reservations. So, for the first reason, people will be asked as to why they wasted their time and did not listen to the voices that kept on inviting them till they died, thus, misleading uncountable generations for which I ask you whether they deserve single punishment or countless punishments for misleading countless generations. And, for the second reason, if a person was willing to listen to Islam but it was propaganda or misinformation that led it astray, then Allah (عزّ وجلّ) is most merciful and beneficent and He (عزّ وجلّ) will reward that person for his willingness and punish only the propagandists who led him astray that is what Quran teachers: "No bearer of burden shall bear the burden of another person".

About this verse,. Firstly, you have to know that laws of Islam are conditional. When one sort of conditions are met, that type of laws are enforced and when other types of conditions are met, other type of laws are enforced. This law was specific to the era of primitive times, when enemies of Islam followed slavery too. However, the laws of slavery in non-Muslim societies were inhumane as compared to the Islamic laws of slavery where even a slave was allowed to file a complaint to a judge or Qazi. You will be amazed to know that you will find many instances of brutal behavior towards of Roman and other non-Muslims as a social norm but you will not find it to be social norm among Muslims rather on individual basis which were greatly condemned in Islamic society. Although you complain about Islamic conduct of slaves for sex yet you have none among those people as witness to be dealt as such. Now, there is in Islam three conditions by which people can have relationships, one is with a slave girl, one by temporary marriage and one by permanent marriage. All of these have similar characteristics but slightly varying rules. Relationship with a slave girl was like marriage, no one else was permitted to have relationship with her but her master so it was not like a sex-slave rather like a marriage and the children born out of it was legitimate and inherited the parents unlike Romans and other non-Muslim societies where slaves were not granted such protection and their children were considered illegitimate. Now, you might ask me whether she had choice for such kind of relationships? I would ask you whether the Muslim slaves in the camp of Romans and other non-Muslims had any choice? No, they didn't have. So, what should have Islam done for the Muslims, when their relatives were being subject to harsh treatment as slaves by the non-Muslim powers? The slaves had the status of prisoners of war but Muslim treated them well. And, if you ask me, whether it was the best the Muslim can offer to the Prisoners of war? No, they could do even better than that and that is what taught by Prophet Muhammad (PBUHHP) and his Ahlebait (عليه السلام) who always sought welfare of the slaves and who after teaching them freed them and then married some extraordinary women among them or allowed them way to prosperity. 

So, brother, you are living in modern times, brought up by modern psychological atmosphere where rules are different as compared to the primitive era but such rules were perfect according to the situation in which those people lived in which Muslims were the most humane people on the surface of the earth.

As regards Yajuj and Majuj, there is some kind of knowledge kept hidden by Allah (عزّ وجلّ) about which He (عزّ وجلّ) has revealed only little information. The reason of this is that humans are so naive and curious that whenever they know a secret, they create a havoc in the world about it which makes world a messy place. Look at the concept of Aliens, how many people have died just because of this misinformation? Many went crazy, many committed suicide and even then the number of those who believe in aliens is not coming to an end. Some traditions tells us that humanity thrived from three sons of Prophet Noah (عليه السلام) from Ham, Sam and Yafis, the progeny of two children were called Yajuj and Majuj and progeny of the third son were believers. If we take this hadith, it means that Yajuj and Majuj are not different from humans so they could be a large human group whose intent has not yet been manifested because they are awaiting an opportunity because some hadith say that they will remain under submission until an appointed time when they will says insha-Allah meaning that they will find that now their days of submission are over as nature favored them by keeping humanity involved among themselves and as that will be the best opportunity to strike other humans while they are at their lowest. And, that is what the Islamic prophecies tell that when most of the wars end and most population will be shrinked, the Yajuj and Majuj will come.

 

 

 

 

You didn't answer the Main arguments even after writing this much.i will keep it short this time.

1)still how does eternal touture make sense

2]we have nothing with what roman people did because we don't consider them the followers of right path according to islam.So if they did something bad,we also did but not so serve.The ruling was available at the time of prophet.and it was used by muslims to justify raping women.what status of slave,if she has no choice to reject her master to have sex.

It's funny how you mentioned that it's like marriage where no one else could have had sex with slave,well that is because the master owned here.And unlike marriage without divorce she could have been sold other person.which happened and there were sold in markets.

3] long story short you didn't it.just said God knows better.How does knowing about something be dangerous.According to this wouldn't it have been better not tell anything about it.

4] it doesn't still prove anything.The quran has still contraction about embryology and many other.

 

Brother you are trying to defend your religion and I respect it a lot.

Thanks for replying 

Thank you 

[DANISH ALI]

5 hours ago, calm_passenger said:

please don’t take my words negatively. I apologize if anything hurt you... it’s never my intent. Your journey matters deeply. However, many of your critiques rely on superficial or anti-Islamic sources. If you leave Islam based on these, you risk being swayed endlessly by whichever voice shouts loudest. Instead, seek answers from qualified scholars, not YouTube or other social media. If you later meet a deep atheist or a sincere scholar, which conversation will bring you peace? Islam has withstood 1,400 years of scrutiny—trust it can address your doubts. Research with an open heart, not just a searching mind. 

Allah says, "So ask the people of knowledge if you do not know" (16:43). Don’t let fleeting doubts eclipse a lifetime of faith. The Prophet ﷺ said, "Islam began strange, and it will return strange. So give glad tidings to the strangers" (Muslim). May Allah guide us to what unites, not divides, and fill our hearts with His light. With unwavering care.
 

Brother i tried to seek by diffrent scholars, mailing the representative of ayatullah sistani also but those answers were unstatsifatory.

Brother you still didn't provide answer to the arguments I provided.

Thank you 

[PureExistence1]

Salaam,

I don't understand what the confusion is about..

"And whoever of you hath not means enough to marry protected believing women, then (let him marry) from among those whom your right hands possess (slaves or captives) from among your believing maidens; and verily God better knoweth your faith; Ye are (sprung) one from the other, so marry them, with the permission of their masters, and give them their dowries (which may be) in (fairness, their getting protected not committing lewd-ness, nor receiving paramours..."

So some dude has "slaves" and some are females and he wants to marry one cuz he can't afford to marry a "free believing woman" so he asks his slave woman, she says yes (or no) and things proceed in the appropriate manner.

Whats the problem? Are you reading from jacked up wahabi/salafi translations and tafseer or... whats going on here?  

I dont like to add intention to people but it "feels" like this isnt a serious issue of deciding to convert/revert, but rather the same 'ol anti islam peeps sliding into shia chat trying to PrOvE IsLaM wRoNg...

Idk

W/s

[Borntowitnesstruth]

12 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

You didn't answer the Main arguments even after writing this much.i will keep it short this time.

 

I addressed everything and therein I asked questions which itself give answers to your questions. 

 

12 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

1)still how does eternal touture make sense

 

Firstly eternal torture is not for all but for some and I tell you why, Eternal torture make sense because some of the people have considered this life to be the only reality, thus, they did every kind of injustice towards the creation of this world thinking that they will not be held accountable. So, those who did not gave God even slight attention in their places and took for themselves as deities so that no one can lay finger on them, for that God will put them in eternal hell and ask them to release themselves if they can as they behaved like deities in the world. 

12 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

2]we have nothing with what roman people did because we don't consider them the followers of right path according to islam.So if they did something bad,we also did but not so serve.The ruling was available at the time of prophet.and it was used by muslims to justify raping women.what status of slave,if she has no choice to reject her master to have sex.

Much can be debated about the ruling, the ruling says, you can go to what your right hand possesses. The word right hand can be translated as to make the relationship proper with consent as Islam means to facilitate people and not to make their lives hard. So, it does not matter what the people practiced because people are not Islam rather Islam is with Prophet Muhammad (PBUHHP) and his Ahlebait (عليه السلام). And, these holy personalities treated people in best ways and hated things which would displease Allah (عزّ وجلّ). So, if you wanna leave the Islam of the people, leave it and join Islam of Ahlebait (عليه السلام).

12 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

It's funny how you mentioned that it's like marriage where no one else could have had sex with slave,well that is because the master owned here.And unlike marriage without divorce she could have been sold other person.which happened and there were sold in markets.

It is not funny bro, it is a serious topic. When a slave girl was sold to another person, it was ipso facto considered a divorce and the slave girl was to wait a month which was her iddah before having sexual relationship with other person. If you wanna blame the ill-treatment of those people, you can blame them but you cannot blame Islam for it because Islam had nothing to do with the people as the very people disobeyed Prophet Muhammad (PBUHHP) and his Ahlebait (عليه السلام).

12 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

3] long story short you didn't it.just said God knows better.How does knowing about something be dangerous.According to this wouldn't it have been better not tell anything about it.

How does knowing about something be dangerous? Well, there are plenty of examples to prove that in life where in people with evil minds made life miserable when they knew a secret such as knowing how to make viruses and biological weapons lolz. 

Now, to your second question, No, it would not have been better to keep humans in ignorance from a threat which will likely occur after some signs have been sighted because if humans were kept ignorant and Yajuj and Majuj had appeared without any warning, it will be impossible for humans to make arrangements to counter them. So, Allah (عزّ وجلّ) always informs humans about what is to come through Prophet Muhammad (PBUHHP) and Ahlebait ((عليه السلام)) so that humans can prepare for those events and humans be unable to complain on the judgement day that they were not informed properly.

[DANISH ALI]

1 hour ago, Borntowitnesstruth said:

I addressed everything and therein I asked questions which itself give answers to your questions. 

 

Firstly eternal torture is not for all but for some and I tell you why, Eternal torture make sense because some of the people have considered this life to be the only reality, thus, they did every kind of injustice towards the creation of this world thinking that they will not be held accountable. So, those who did not gave God even slight attention in their places and took for themselves as deities so that no one can lay finger on them, for that God will put them in eternal hell and ask them to release themselves if they can as they behaved like deities in the world. 

Much can be debated about the ruling, the ruling says, you can go to what your right hand possesses. The word right hand can be translated as to make the relationship proper with consent as Islam means to facilitate people and not to make their lives hard. So, it does not matter what the people practiced because people are not Islam rather Islam is with Prophet Muhammad (PBUHHP) and his Ahlebait (عليه السلام). And, these holy personalities treated people in best ways and hated things which would displease Allah (عزّ وجلّ). So, if you wanna leave the Islam of the people, leave it and join Islam of Ahlebait (عليه السلام).

It is not funny bro, it is a serious topic. When a slave girl was sold to another person, it was ipso facto considered a divorce and the slave girl was to wait a month which was her iddah before having sexual relationship with other person. If you wanna blame the ill-treatment of those people, you can blame them but you cannot blame Islam for it because Islam had nothing to do with the people as the very people disobeyed Prophet Muhammad (PBUHHP) and his Ahlebait (عليه السلام).

How does knowing about something be dangerous? Well, there are plenty of examples to prove that in life where in people with evil minds made life miserable when they knew a secret such as knowing how to make viruses and biological weapons lolz. 

Now, to your second question, No, it would not have been better to keep humans in ignorance from a threat which will likely occur after some signs have been sighted because if humans were kept ignorant and Yajuj and Majuj had appeared without any warning, it will be impossible for humans to make arrangements to counter them. So, Allah (عزّ وجلّ) always informs humans about what is to come through Prophet Muhammad (PBUHHP) and Ahlebait ((عليه السلام)) so that humans can prepare for those events and humans be unable to complain on the judgement day that they were not informed properly.

Agh! Again I will give this example.

A man rejects islam a (kafir),but he leads a life as a good man,and doesn't do injustice to the people.Is kind of everything.How does eternal touture make sense now.Dont tell me he wouldn't go hell or God is just, because i mentioned that he rejected islam altogether.

 

2]If you think consent was needed then,you are far behind the reality.Please don't be blinded by the faith and watch the other side of coin.

 

3] not everyone has evil mind and just giving proper explanation about the matter isn't dangerous.The argument is flawed.

[DANISH ALI]

1 hour ago, Borntowitnesstruth said:

I addressed everything and therein I asked questions which itself give answers to your questions. 

 

Firstly eternal torture is not for all but for some and I tell you why, Eternal torture make sense because some of the people have considered this life to be the only reality, thus, they did every kind of injustice towards the creation of this world thinking that they will not be held accountable. So, those who did not gave God even slight attention in their places and took for themselves as deities so that no one can lay finger on them, for that God will put them in eternal hell and ask them to release themselves if they can as they behaved like deities in the world. 

Much can be debated about the ruling, the ruling says, you can go to what your right hand possesses. The word right hand can be translated as to make the relationship proper with consent as Islam means to facilitate people and not to make their lives hard. So, it does not matter what the people practiced because people are not Islam rather Islam is with Prophet Muhammad (PBUHHP) and his Ahlebait (عليه السلام). And, these holy personalities treated people in best ways and hated things which would displease Allah (عزّ وجلّ). So, if you wanna leave the Islam of the people, leave it and join Islam of Ahlebait (عليه السلام).

It is not funny bro, it is a serious topic. When a slave girl was sold to another person, it was ipso facto considered a divorce and the slave girl was to wait a month which was her iddah before having sexual relationship with other person. If you wanna blame the ill-treatment of those people, you can blame them but you cannot blame Islam for it because Islam had nothing to do with the people as the very people disobeyed Prophet Muhammad (PBUHHP) and his Ahlebait (عليه السلام).

How does knowing about something be dangerous? Well, there are plenty of examples to prove that in life where in people with evil minds made life miserable when they knew a secret such as knowing how to make viruses and biological weapons lolz. 

Now, to your second question, No, it would not have been better to keep humans in ignorance from a threat which will likely occur after some signs have been sighted because if humans were kept ignorant and Yajuj and Majuj had appeared without any warning, it will be impossible for humans to make arrangements to counter them. So, Allah (عزّ وجلّ) always informs humans about what is to come through Prophet Muhammad (PBUHHP) and Ahlebait ((عليه السلام)) so that humans can prepare for those events and humans be unable to complain on the judgement day that they were not informed properly.

Still no answer to the Quran being wrong embryology, i have explain before

Eternal touture still makes no sense, anyone with same mind can get that.

No answer to prophet marriage to child,and if you are going to tell it was common at time,then i won't even argue.

No answer why a womans testimony is considered half of a man.

 

Ok guys since nobody has satisfactory answers here,i would like to end this debate here and a guy already called anti islamic person spreading corruption, I will end it here

Thanks for your replies.

 

 

[Muslim2010]

وَمَا كَانَ لِنَفْسٍ أَن تُؤْمِنَ إِلَّا بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ ۚ وَيَجْعَلُ الرِّجْسَ عَلَى الَّذِينَ لَا يَعْقِلُونَ

And it is not for a soul to believe except by Allah's permission; and He casts uncleanness on those who will not understand. [10;100]

قُلِ انظُرُوا مَاذَا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ ۚ وَمَا تُغْنِي الْآيَاتُ وَالنُّذُرُ عَن قَوْمٍ لَّا يُؤْمِنُونَ

Say: Consider what is it that is in the heavens and the earth; and signs and warners do not avail a people who would not believe. [10:101]

WAssalam

[mahmood8726]

This is what happens when rather than finding out if Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) exists, if Muhammad(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was the messenger, if islam is the truth based on its foundations, you decide instead to focus on the specifics of the religion, or you focus on your fallacious understanding of Islam and you insist that your fallacious understanding of Islam is the only true understanding of that religion.

One example is this person thinks the arabic word used in the Quran for embryonic process must only mean "then", when it can also mean "at the same time", these are basic level polemics that he's falling for. 

 

Or he thinks women not having the same testimony as men, must mean islam is wrong. Even though this is not "injustice" because islam doesn't beleive in femenism as in both genders being 100% equal in rights and responsibilities. 

 

This is why it's important to beleive in islam due to its foundations and not let its specifics determine your beleif in the religion, because most of the time your understanding of these specifics will be wrong or you would have missed an important detail. This also why it's important as a person who dogmatically beleived in western liberalism growing up, to take a step back and realise that this manmade ideology might be wrong. Because I promise you, if you don't take a step back and you insist islam contradicting these manmade ideologies, makes islam "wrong", you might just find punishing people in jahannam for arrogant disbelief ridicilous. This is due to the fact, that from a liberal/secularist lense, there is no harm in disbeleiving, the end goal is pleasure and no pain. It also leads to you making these ridicilous hypothetical scenarios where you have this 100% good hearted man who goes to jahannam because he just decided to disbeleive, I think the guest abdallah explanation is more than sufficient too.

 

Edited March 7 by mahmood8726

[Borntowitnesstruth]

2 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

Agh! Again I will give this example.

A man rejects islam a (kafir),but he leads a life as a good man,and doesn't do injustice to the people.Is kind of everything.How does eternal touture make sense now.Dont tell me he wouldn't go hell or God is just, because i mentioned that he rejected islam altogether.

 

2]If you think consent was needed then,you are far behind the reality.Please don't be blinded by the faith and watch the other side of coin.

 

3] not everyone has evil mind and just giving proper explanation about the matter isn't dangerous.The argument is flawed.

Well, brother, I explained to you everything, if you want to argue just for the sake of proving yourself right, then I don't think that it will be appropriate for me to linger this matter.

2 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

Still no answer to the Quran being wrong embryology, i have explain before

Eternal touture still makes no sense, anyone with same mind can get that.

No answer to prophet marriage to child,and if you are going to tell it was common at time,then i won't even argue.

No answer why a womans testimony is considered half of a man.

 

Ok guys since nobody has satisfactory answers here,i would like to end this debate here and a guy already called anti islamic person spreading corruption, I will end it here

Thanks for your replies.

Hmm, these are new, perhaps I can write something about them. 

1) Well, as regards the question of embryology is concerned  Dr. Keith L. Moore , an embryologist said that Quranic description of embryology aligns with modern science for that you need to read his book in which he explains that or watch his youtube video. So, I do not know what propaganda videos you are watching bro.

2) About Eternal torture, already explained. 

3) Well, Prophet Muhammad (PBUHHP) did not marry a child rather He (PBUHHP) married 18 year old woman named Ayesha. It is narrated that Ayesha was 10 years younger than her elder sister Asma and the age of Asma during migration to Medina was 28 years old which makes age of Ayesha to be 18 in the year of migration and marriage of Ayesha with Prophet happened 2 or 3 years after migration. 

4) There can be many reasons responsible as to why a Woman's testimony considered half that of man. One reason might be their inherent abilities namely that is to say females have more sense of security as compared to males so Allah (عزّ وجلّ) kept it binding that there be two females to testify so that both can strengthen each other in carrying out that duty.

3 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

Ok guys since nobody has satisfactory answers here,i would like to end this debate here and a guy already called anti islamic person spreading corruption, I will end it here

Thanks for your replies.

You are welcome for asking new questions. 

[mahmood8726]

7 minutes ago, Borntowitnesstruth said:

1) Well, as regards the question of embryology is concerned  Dr. Keith L. Moore , an embryologist said that Quranic description of embryology aligns with modern science for that you need to read his book in which he explains that or watch his youtube video. So, I do not know what propaganda videos you are watching bro.

the word used in the quran doesnt only mean "then", it can also mean "at the same time", these argument that islam is wrong because of the embryonic development verse uses a word which might or might not mean "then", is a weak argument from his part.

 

At any point, he decided he wants to stop engaging, hopefully he finds hidayah, but if he doesn't, he might be in a world of trouble for being so reckless with his salvation. 

Edited March 7 by mahmood8726

[PureExistence1]

5 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

No answer why a womans testimony is considered half of a man.

Salaam, 

Speaking from personal experience here, I don't really care if other sisters want to support it or not, I'm 49 years old... I've had a long enough of a life so far and I can very confidently tell you, that there are times in a female's life where she does not remember quite well. I hate to say it, but when hormones fluctuate or they absolutely go down the drain like in perimenopause/menopause, women get brain fog and they don't remember things quite well. Do you not think our creator would know that? That doesn't mean women are dumb, doesn't mean women are incapable, rather it is actually alluding to a point that escapes a lot of people unless they themselves have had this experience or are made aware through an older female in their life, or maybe through Medical study. (Medical study is a lot less likely because it is SO far behind in the study of women's health is pathetic!)

I KNOW there are plenty of women out there between the ages of 45 to 100 that would tell you yes, especially during "life's transition", I couldn't remember my own name sometimes! When you have that kind of a situation, women are not on par as they would be otherwise so that needs to be considered when you're looking at the testimony of women, so if one woman happens to be in the middle of having a hormonal fluctuation, or her hormones are completely depleted, it makes sense that there might need to be another woman there to say, "no sister, you're wrong, X is what happened"... 

What do you have to say about that, "Mr anti-islam/your way is right/ you're going to prove Islam wrong single-handedly despite 1400 years worth of scholarly study on the subject from all schools of thought"?! Lol!

Haha lol this whole thread is turning into a joke because this one person decides to ask a bunch of questions (as if they haven't already been asked a thousand freaking times on this website!)

Getting so sick of the constant barrage of idiocy that comes through here. I can tell when someone seriously looking for answers and when someone's just trying to be an arrogant pain in the you know what. 

Oh, you're stepping aside because someone called you "anti-islam"... Doors open buddy don't let it hit you in the you know what on your way out! You're lucky they didn't call you something worse, lol! 

Be off with your arrogance. Go find some other people to bother. I personally do not have the hormonal bandwidth to deal with seeing this immature stupidity pop up in my emails.

(Mods: I know I'm probably going to get flagged left and right for this post, but I really felt like a lot of it had to be said. If you need to make adjustments to this post to make it more fitting towards an Islamic nature, I'm totally cool with it.. I'm just sick of some of the stuff I see and deal with in the world-.-

Ugh.

[realizm]

21 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

Somebody give this guy a history book.

The right hand possesed women mean those women which are captured during war.could please bother reading tafsir of ayat 4:24.

Talking about history. You first mentioned Surah al Mu'minun which is a Meccan Surah. It came down before the first wars of Islam yet it already talks about right hand possessed women. 

Which means 'those your right hand possess' can not refer to 'women captured during war' because the believers were not yet engaged in wars when Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) first used that word. 

Does that make sense now ? Or do you just want to engage in more polemics ? 

 

[Muhammed Ali]

On 3/5/2025 at 5:44 PM, DANISH ALI said:

Like 75% of the world.

This is not true.

You do not really understand what it means to disbelieve. 

[Abu Nur]

On 3/5/2025 at 7:44 PM, DANISH ALI said:

If God claims to be all loving why punish someone eternally,just for not believing.

Where does God claims He is All loving? God loves the sinner who don't repent? God love does not manifest with a wicked people who don't repent. God love have nothing to do with eternal punishment creatures.

“God loves not transgressors.” (2:190)

“He loves not creatures ungrateful or wicked.” (2:276)

“God loves not those who do wrong.” (3:57, 140)

“God loves not the arrogant the vainglorious.” (4:36)

Those who will admit to hell is admitted by their own actions that is going to manifest as their punishment. They never recognized the reality, they never listened their inner nature that called them to follow the attributes and names of God and thus recognize Him, so Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) will remove His mercy from them and thus that is the greatest suffering. They will not manifest God love or mercy. Rather they will manifest God other name, like punisher.

Eternity is because when God created human being, He gave it eternity existence. There is no such a thing as disbelief can only be punished by time x to be Justice. You people have no idea how serious disbelief is, it is a state of ungratefullness that can not be measured such that it can be given an temporary punishment to fill it's condition. Rather, in Quran even after deslievers will witness the Truth and say send back us to Earth to do good deeds, they will always fall to evilness by their own will. We can not give right measure of thankfulness to his Mercy and you think we can give right measure of punishment for ungretfulness?

People need to understand that this life is nothing but manifesting the eternity of their existence, either they follow their inner nature that call them for goodnesses and love and they will get eternity of it, or they will destroy it and they will get eternity of it. It is not for playing and chill out.

Those who believe and do righteous deeds, the Most Merciful will give them love. Qur'an 19:96

Edited March 8 by Abu Nur

[DANISH ALI]

5 hours ago, PureExistence1 said:

Salaam, 

Speaking from personal experience here, I don't really care if other sisters want to support it or not, I'm 49 years old... I've had a long enough of a life so far and I can very confidently tell you, that there are times in a female's life where she does not remember quite well. I hate to say it, but when hormones fluctuate or they absolutely go down the drain like in perimenopause/menopause, women get brain fog and they don't remember things quite well. Do you not think our creator would know that? That doesn't mean women are dumb, doesn't mean women are incapable, rather it is actually alluding to a point that escapes a lot of people unless they themselves have had this experience or are made aware through an older female in their life, or maybe through Medical study. (Medical study is a lot less likely because it is SO far behind in the study of women's health is pathetic!)

I KNOW there are plenty of women out there between the ages of 45 to 100 that would tell you yes, especially during "life's transition", I couldn't remember my own name sometimes! When you have that kind of a situation, women are not on par as they would be otherwise so that needs to be considered when you're looking at the testimony of women, so if one woman happens to be in the middle of having a hormonal fluctuation, or her hormones are completely depleted, it makes sense that there might need to be another woman there to say, "no sister, you're wrong, X is what happened"... 

What do you have to say about that, "Mr anti-islam/your way is right/ you're going to prove Islam wrong single-handedly despite 1400 years worth of scholarly study on the subject from all schools of thought"?! Lol!

Haha lol this whole thread is turning into a joke because this one person decides to ask a bunch of questions (as if they haven't already been asked a thousand freaking times on this website!)

Getting so sick of the constant barrage of idiocy that comes through here. I can tell when someone seriously looking for answers and when someone's just trying to be an arrogant pain in the you know what. 

Oh, you're stepping aside because someone called you "anti-islam"... Doors open buddy don't let it hit you in the you know what on your way out! You're lucky they didn't call you something worse, lol! 

Be off with your arrogance. Go find some other people to bother. I personally do not have the hormonal bandwidth to deal with seeing this immature stupidity pop up in my emails.

(Mods: I know I'm probably going to get flagged left and right for this post, but I really felt like a lot of it had to be said. If you need to make adjustments to this post to make it more fitting towards an Islamic nature, I'm totally cool with it.. I'm just sick of some of the stuff I see and deal with in the world-.-

Ugh.

First I would like to answer you Mrs super inteligent woman.

The thing here,you generalized the entire females,I admit during hormal imbalance many women have Brian fog.but the degree varies.

And when a woman sees a concerning matter,or horrid thing happening,she would remeber it.

The verse doesn't give specific age groups or periods as you argued,but generalised the entire female race.

Females are capable,there are females out running countries,and not believing the testimony of woman should half because of Brian fog.

Consider your wording when addressing a question.

 

[Abu Nur]

4 minutes ago, DANISH ALI said:

First I would like to answer you Mrs super inteligent woman.

How do you think people can take you seriously when you are so arrogant? Just do a good favor and move on, this is nothing but a game for you.

[DANISH ALI]

7 hours ago, mahmood8726 said:

the word used in the quran doesnt only mean "then", it can also mean "at the same time", these argument that islam is wrong because of the embryonic development verse uses a word which might or might not mean "then", is a weak argument from his part.

 

At any point, he decided he wants to stop engaging, hopefully he finds hidayah, but if he doesn't, he might be in a world of trouble for being so reckless with his salvation. 

Ok first I admit I was wrong about embryology and you win.

But still your answer about eternal hell,is not satisfactory for me.

3]The reason why I mentioned Aisha marriage was because the replier was Sunni in their text which they consider authentic,as her age clearly written as 9.

My point here was islam allows child marriage.Here is the proof 

Book teherul wissila volume 2 page 216

Ayatullah khumine 

It is forbidden to have sex with a wife younger than 9 years old, regardless of whether the marriage is temporary or permanent.But all other pleasures including groping with lust, hand jobs and thighing are permissible, even to a baby."

You could also check the ruling of ayatullah sistani.

 

4] Also i find it very vague answer about Yajuj and majuj 

Better luck.defending this.

Thank you brother 

 

 

[DANISH ALI]

4 hours ago, realizm said:

Talking about history. You first mentioned Surah al Mu'minun which is a Meccan Surah. It came down before the first wars of Islam yet it already talks about right hand possessed women. 

Which means 'those your right hand possess' can not refer to 'women captured during war' because the believers were not yet engaged in wars when Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) first used that word. 

Does that make sense now ? Or do you just want to engange  more polemics ? 

 

This dude.

 

1 hour ago, Abu Nur said:

Where does God claims He is All loving? God loves the sinner who don't repent? God love does not manifest with a wicked people who don't repent. God love have nothing to do with eternal punishment creatures.

“God loves not transgressors.” (2:190)

“He loves not creatures ungrateful or wicked.” (2:276)

“God loves not those who do wrong.” (3:57, 140)

“God loves not the arrogant the vainglorious.” (4:36)

Those who will admit to hell is admitted by their own actions that is going to manifest as their punishment. They never recognized the reality, they never listened their inner nature that called them to follow the attributes and names of God and thus recognize Him, so Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) will remove His mercy from them and thus that is the greatest suffering. They will not manifest God love or mercy. Rather they will manifest God other name, like punisher.

Eternity is because when God created human being, He gave it eternity existence. There is no such a thing as disbelief can only be punished by time x to be Justice. You people have no idea how serious disbelief is, it is a state of ungratefullness that can not be measured such that it can be given an temporary punishment to fill it's condition. Rather, in Quran even after deslievers will witness the Truth and say send back us to Earth to do good deeds, they will always fall to evilness by their own will. We can not give right measure of thankfulness to his Mercy and you think we can give right measure of punishment for ungretfulness?

People need to understand that this life is nothing but manifesting the eternity of their existence, either they follow their inner nature that call them for goodnesses and love and they will get eternity of it, or they will destroy it and they will get eternity of it. It is not for playing and chill out.

Those who believe and do righteous deeds, the Most Merciful will give them love. Qur'an 19:96

It is said God loves his creation 70 times more than a mother would love her child.

Even if the child is rude towards her mother and distances  himself from her and does not lover her.

I see no way how a mother would burn her child,if she had the power.

Every mother would stop the eternal if given the choice.

 

[DANISH ALI]

1 hour ago, Muhammed Ali said:

This is not true.

You do not really understand what it means to disbelieve. 

I provided a description 

[DANISH ALI]

8 hours ago, mahmood8726 said:

This is what happens when rather than finding out if Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) exists, if Muhammad(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was the messenger, if islam is the truth based on its foundations, you decide instead to focus on the specifics of the religion, or you focus on your fallacious understanding of Islam and you insist that your fallacious understanding of Islam is the only true understanding of that religion.

One example is this person thinks the arabic word used in the Quran for embryonic process must only mean "then", when it can also mean "at the same time", these are basic level polemics that he's falling for. 

 

Or he thinks women not having the same testimony as men, must mean islam is wrong. Even though this is not "injustice" because islam doesn't beleive in femenism as in both genders being 100% equal in rights and responsibilities. 

 

This is why it's important to beleive in islam due to its foundations and not let its specifics determine your beleif in the religion, because most of the time your understanding of these specifics will be wrong or you would have missed an important detail. This also why it's important as a person who dogmatically beleived in western liberalism growing up, to take a step back and realise that this manmade ideology might be wrong. Because I promise you, if you don't take a step back and you insist islam contradicting these manmade ideologies, makes islam "wrong", you might just find punishing people in jahannam for arrogant disbelief ridicilous. This is due to the fact, that from a liberal/secularist lense, there is no harm in disbeleiving, the end goal is pleasure and no pain. It also leads to you making these ridicilous hypothetical scenarios where you have this 100% good hearted man who goes to jahannam because he just decided to disbeleive, I think the guest abdallah explanation is more than sufficient too.

 

The arguments i provided are about the foundations islam stands for.

Righteous 

Equality 

Treatment of human beings 

Salvation 

You didn't provide replies just your opinions