[Closed/Review]Leaving islam

[DANISH ALI]

13 hours ago, Borntowitnesstruth said:

I addressed everything and therein I asked questions which itself give answers to your questions. 

 

Firstly eternal torture is not for all but for some and I tell you why, Eternal torture make sense because some of the people have considered this life to be the only reality, thus, they did every kind of injustice towards the creation of this world thinking that they will not be held accountable. So, those who did not gave God even slight attention in their places and took for themselves as deities so that no one can lay finger on them, for that God will put them in eternal hell and ask them to release themselves if they can as they behaved like deities in the world. 

Much can be debated about the ruling, the ruling says, you can go to what your right hand possesses. The word right hand can be translated as to make the relationship proper with consent as Islam means to facilitate people and not to make their lives hard. So, it does not matter what the people practiced because people are not Islam rather Islam is with Prophet Muhammad (PBUHHP) and his Ahlebait (عليه السلام). And, these holy personalities treated people in best ways and hated things which would displease Allah (عزّ وجلّ). So, if you wanna leave the Islam of the people, leave it and join Islam of Ahlebait (عليه السلام).

It is not funny bro, it is a serious topic. When a slave girl was sold to another person, it was ipso facto considered a divorce and the slave girl was to wait a month which was her iddah before having sexual relationship with other person. If you wanna blame the ill-treatment of those people, you can blame them but you cannot blame Islam for it because Islam had nothing to do with the people as the very people disobeyed Prophet Muhammad (PBUHHP) and his Ahlebait (عليه السلام).

How does knowing about something be dangerous? Well, there are plenty of examples to prove that in life where in people with evil minds made life miserable when they knew a secret such as knowing how to make viruses and biological weapons lolz. 

Now, to your second question, No, it would not have been better to keep humans in ignorance from a threat which will likely occur after some signs have been sighted because if humans were kept ignorant and Yajuj and Majuj had appeared without any warning, it will be impossible for humans to make arrangements to counter them. So, Allah (عزّ وجلّ) always informs humans about what is to come through Prophet Muhammad (PBUHHP) and Ahlebait ((عليه السلام)) so that humans can prepare for those events and humans be unable to complain on the judgement day that they were not informed properly.

If you say it was the people you disobeyed not the islam, again why didn't the prophet explicitly ban the practice altogether.

[DANISH ALI]

12 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

How do you think people can take you seriously when you are so arrogant? Just do a good favor and move on, this is nothing but a game for you.

Sorry to sound arrogant brother,but she called me arrogant first,and called me anti islamic.I am trying to make sense of my faith.It is frustrating to engage in doubts and see someone just consider it a game.i have been a practicing muslim all my life,and it is sad to see someone calling anti islamic just because i asked questions.

[Abu Nur]

17 minutes ago, DANISH ALI said:

It is said God loves his creation 70 times more than a mother would love her child.

Even if the child is rude towards her mother and distances  himself from her and does not lover her.

I see no way how a mother would burn her child,if she had the power.

Every mother would stop the eternal if given the choice.

This what annoys me with people like you, you never use your time to reflect what people say and reply to according to their statements but rather you bring more emotional statements that literally has been refuted. "It is said God love His creation", I already said with proof not all His creation is loved by God nor God love reach to wicked people who are punished in Hell Fire. If someone is loved by God, then His love is not compared to human love.

Edited March 8 by Abu Nur

[DANISH ALI]

2 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

This what annoys me with people like you, you never use your time to reflect what people say and reply to according to their statements but rather you bring more emotional rants that literally has been refuted. "It is said God love His creation", I already said with proof not all His creation is loved by God nor God love reach to wicked people who are punished in Hell Fire. If someone is loved by God, then His love is not compared to human love.

If it annoys you don't bother answering. What is the logic of creating a person which you knew was going to hell,since he is all knowing,then punishing him for eternity just because he didn't believe.

Well you could say it was his free will which led to him hell,why was he created in first place,he had no choice but to be born,

If it is known for certianity he will go to hell,and he wold have given two choices either to be born live the life and end up in hell,or not be born at all 

Nobody would have wanted to be born.

[PureExistence1]

34 minutes ago, DANISH ALI said:

Brian fog.

Shia chat error: Memeber does not know who "Brian fog" is. Please check your info and try again.

Ps: most intelligent brother, women's maturity is determined by the start of her first., in other words, when her hormonal menstrual cycle starts. So at the very age that a woman becomes accountable considered a woman of marriageable age and therefore old enough to be considered a reliable witness by Sharia law, she IS EXPERIENCING HORMONAL FLUCTUATIONS- from the very moment she is BALIGH. THAT IS A DETERMINING FACTOR OF WHETHER SHE IS CONSIDERED AN ADULT OR NOT IS WHETHER SHE IS HAVING MENSTRUATION WHICH MEANS HORMONAL FLUCTUATIONS. WHAT DON'T YOU GET? 

Don't give me this trash about women running this and women running that. Are you or are you not familiar with the Hadith that talk about the end times and women being in positions of power? 

Doesnt matter at this point. Cant make the willfully blind see..can lead a horse to water but cant make it drink, etc.

 

English Translation of Surah An-Nisa, Verse 88:

"So why are you [believers] divided into two groups concerning the hypocrites, while Allah has allowed them to regress [to disbelief] because of what they earned? Do you wish to guide those whom Allah has sent astray? And he whom Allah sends astray – never will you find for him a way [of guidance]".

Explanation from Ayatollah Jawadi Amoli's Tasnim Tafsir:

In Tasnim Tafsir, Ayatollah Jawadi Amoli interprets this verse by focusing on the following themes:

1. Hypocrisy as a Consequence of Actions: The hypocrites are described as having been "returned to disbelief" due to their own deeds. This highlights the Quranic principle that human actions have consequences, both spiritually and morally.

2. Unity Among Believers: The verse criticizes the believers for being divided over how to deal with hypocrites. Ayatollah Jawadi Amoli emphasizes that unity among Muslims is essential, especially when confronting internal challenges like hypocrisy.

3. Divine Guidance and Misguidance: The verse underscores that guidance is ultimately in Allah’s hands. Those whom Allah allows to go astray due to their persistent wrongdoing cannot be guided by human efforts alone.

Done with this intentionally ignorant and arrogant (edited out). < Did it for the mods so they didnt have to.

[DANISH ALI]

4 minutes ago, PureExistence1 said:

Shia chat error: Memeber does not know who "Brian fog" is. Please check your info and try again.

Ps: most intelligent brother, women's maturity is determined by the start of her first., in other words, when her hormonal menstrual cycle starts. So at the very age that a woman becomes accountable considered a woman of marriageable age and therefore old enough to be considered a reliable witness by Sharia law, she IS EXPERIENCING HORMONAL FLUCTUATIONS- from the very moment she is BALIGH. THAT IS A DETERMINING FACTOR OF WHETHER SHE IS CONSIDERED AN ADULT OR NOT IS WHETHER SHE IS HAVING MENSTRUATION WHICH MEANS HORMONAL FLUCTUATIONS. WHAT DON'T YOU GET? 

Don't give me this trash about women running this and women running that. Are you or are you not familiar with the Hadith that talk about the end times and women being in positions of power? 

Doesnt matter at this point. Cant make the willfully blind see..can lead a horse to water but cant make it drink, etc.

 

English Translation of Surah An-Nisa, Verse 88:

"So why are you [believers] divided into two groups concerning the hypocrites, while Allah has allowed them to regress [to disbelief] because of what they earned? Do you wish to guide those whom Allah has sent astray? And he whom Allah sends astray – never will you find for him a way [of guidance]".

Explanation from Ayatollah Jawadi Amoli's Tasnim Tafsir:

In Tasnim Tafsir, Ayatollah Jawadi Amoli interprets this verse by focusing on the following themes:

1. Hypocrisy as a Consequence of Actions: The hypocrites are described as having been "returned to disbelief" due to their own deeds. This highlights the Quranic principle that human actions have consequences, both spiritually and morally.

2. Unity Among Believers: The verse criticizes the believers for being divided over how to deal with hypocrites. Ayatollah Jawadi Amoli emphasizes that unity among Muslims is essential, especially when confronting internal challenges like hypocrisy.

3. Divine Guidance and Misguidance: The verse underscores that guidance is ultimately in Allah’s hands. Those whom Allah allows to go astray due to their persistent wrongdoing cannot be guided by human efforts alone.

Done with this intentionally ignorant and arrogant (edited out). < Did it for the mods so they didnt have 

Agh 

My point here was the hormal imbalance doens't necessarily imply trouble remembering things,you just stated your opinion for which I provided and argument and example.

You just have me explanation about end of times and hypocrite.if according to I am a hypocrite then dont waste your precious time here.

.

 

[PureExistence1]

On 3/6/2025 at 3:53 PM, DANISH ALI said:

Somebody give this guy a history book.

The right hand possesed women mean those women which are captured during war.could please bother reading tafsir of ayat 4:24.

English Translation of Surah An-Nisa, Verse 24:

"And [forbidden to you are] married women, except those [captives] whom your right hands possess. This is the decree of Allah upon you. And lawful to you are [all others] beyond these, provided you seek them with your wealth in legal marriage, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual relations. So for whatever you enjoy [of marriage] from them, give them their due compensation as an obligation. And there is no blame upon you for what you mutually agree to beyond the obligation. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise"123.

Explanation from Ayatollah Jawadi Amoli's Tasnim Tafsir:

In his Tasnim Tafsir, Ayatollah Jawadi Amoli provides a detailed contextual and ethical understanding of this verse:

1. Prohibition and Exceptions: The verse lists prohibited relationships, including married women, with an exception for captives of war. Ayatollah Jawadi Amoli emphasizes that this reflects the historical context of war during early Islam, where captives were integrated into society under specific regulations to ensure their dignity and rights.

2. Marriage and Chastity: The verse stresses the importance of seeking lawful relationships through marriage, promoting chastity and avoiding unlawful sexual conduct. This aligns with the Quran's broader emphasis on moral and social order.

3. Dowry (Mahr): The requirement to provide dowry underscores the financial responsibility and respect owed to women in marriage. Ayatollah Jawadi Amoli highlights this as a safeguard for women's rights and a means to honor their status.

4. Divine Wisdom: The concluding part of the verse reminds believers of Allah’s wisdom and knowledge, encouraging adherence to divine guidance for both individual and societal well-being.

This tafsir integrates historical context with moral principles, emphasizing justice, respect, and responsibility in relationships.

[PureExistence1]

14 minutes ago, DANISH ALI said:

Agh 

My point here was the hormal imbalance doens't necessarily imply trouble remembering things,you just stated your opinion for which I provided and argument and example.

You just have me explanation about end of times and hypocrite.if according to I am a hypocrite then dont waste your precious time here.

.

 

See ya 

[Abu Nur]

55 minutes ago, DANISH ALI said:

If it annoys you don't bother answering. What is the logic of creating a person which you knew was going to hell,since he is all knowing,then punishing him for eternity just because he didn't believe.

Well you could say it was his free will which led to him hell,why was he created in first place,he had no choice but to be born,

If it is known for certianity he will go to hell,and he wold have given two choices either to be born live the life and end up in hell,or not be born at all 

Nobody would have wanted to be born.

A kafir looking at the hell fire will say If only I was a dust. Even in that state ungreatful and never realized the truth. But you don't understand that existence is not a choiceable, but rather an manifesting of God will and His attributes. All of us are nothing but His manifestion of His names and attributes, so from our own perspective it holds no value. It means that even if I say if I have a choice to born and I know I will go to Paradise, I will choose to born, make no sense, because we are not the one who make God manifest His attributes and names, but rather it is Allah who manifest them and we are them. This means that Allah only Exist and His name Punisher is manifested eternity as creations who deny Him. And Love and Beneficial is manifested eternity as creations who accept Him.

Your heart can not accept this either because you have tarnished it by sinning and doubting and denying. Your mind is deluding you thinking that you are reasoning when it is not reasoning but rather justification to your doubts so that your nafs will feel satisfied and it will never feel satisfied and ease.

You need to clean your heart if you ever want to see the Truth and accept it. Spend more time to do good deeds,it really will help you.

Edited March 8 by Abu Nur

[Ashvazdanghe]

3 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

My point here was islam allows child marriage.Here is the proof 

Book teherul wissila volume 2 page 216

Ayatullah khumine 

It is forbidden to have sex with a wife younger than 9 years old, regardless of whether the marriage is temporary or permanent.But all other pleasures including groping with lust, hand jobs and thighing are permissible, even to a baby."

You could also check the ruling of ayatullah sistani.

Salam this totally your misunderstanding from a ruling which Islam only considers age of maturity which for girls initiates from 9 lunar years old & boys from 15 lunar years old  which westerners just after 20th century have considered it as child marriage while child marriage & pedophilia & raping children has been common between europeans until end of 19th century while in shia Islam it just allows real marriage after Sharia maturity which marriage before becoming 9 years old just make couples Mahram to each other .

On 3/6/2025 at 3:32 PM, DANISH ALI said:

Tell me if you loved someone truly,will burn her for eternity if you had the power just because she didn't love you back,or in this case didn't believe in God

This is not just matter of love which you are misusing word of love which Allah or mother won't burn her child eternally for not loving him or her but on the other hand if you disobey their rules so then you will be punished based on level of your mistake & supposed rule for it which even a mother loves her child when he breaks her rules so then she will punish him based on rules of her house which for example he breaks a window so then he will lockup in his room a night without dinner while still her mom loves him . 

14 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

A man rejects islam a (kafir),but he leads a life as a good man,and doesn't do injustice to the people.Is kind of everything.How does eternal touture make sense now.Dont tell me he wouldn't go hell or God is just, because i mentioned that he rejected islam altogether.

Your logic is likewise that Hitler have killed many people but he had a life as a good man & he was a dog lover ,and he didn't do injustice to his people in germany   & was kind to germans so he doesn't face eternal torture  also he will go to heaven . 

Edited March 8 by Ashvazdanghe

[DANISH ALI]

1 hour ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam this totally your misunderstanding from a ruling which Islam only considers age of maturity which for girls initiates from 9 lunar years old & boys from 15 lunar years old  which westerners just after 20th century have considered it as child marriage while child marriage & pedophilia & raping children has been common between europeans until end of 19th century while in shia Islam it just allows real marriage after Sharia maturity which marriage before becoming 9 years old just make couples Mahram to each other .

This is not just matter of love which you are misusing word of love which Allah or mother won't burn her child eternally for not loving him or her but on the other hand if you disobey their rules so then you will be punished based on level of your mistake & supposed rule for it which even a mother loves her child when he breaks her rules so then she will punish him based on rules of her house which for example he breaks a window so then he will lockup in his room a night without dinner while still her mom loves him . 

Your logic is likewise that Hitler have killed many people but he had a life as a good man & he was a dog lover ,and he didn't do injustice to his people in germany   & was kind to germans so he doesn't face eternal torture  also he will go to heaven . 

I provided clear reference from the text how is this a misunderstanding.

 

I agree the severity of punishment should be based upon severity of crime. I don't see how not believing in God such a great sin that you justify eternal touture for it.

 

The example of Hitler is hilarious.He committed mass genocide.I took the example of a normal person non believing person.

To further clarify it is clearly mentioned in website of sistani that girls under 9 can be married.

9 year is stated as the year of penetration.If penteration happens before 9 year old the man has to provide living for the girl,even after divorce.

Girl until 9 year cant ask for divorce.

It couldn't more clear than this 

[DANISH ALI]

4 hours ago, PureExistence1 said:

English Translation of Surah An-Nisa, Verse 24:

"And [forbidden to you are] married women, except those [captives] whom your right hands possess. This is the decree of Allah upon you. And lawful to you are [all others] beyond these, provided you seek them with your wealth in legal marriage, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual relations. So for whatever you enjoy [of marriage] from them, give them their due compensation as an obligation. And there is no blame upon you for what you mutually agree to beyond the obligation. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise"123.

Explanation from Ayatollah Jawadi Amoli's Tasnim Tafsir:

In his Tasnim Tafsir, Ayatollah Jawadi Amoli provides a detailed contextual and ethical understanding of this verse:

1. Prohibition and Exceptions: The verse lists prohibited relationships, including married women, with an exception for captives of war. Ayatollah Jawadi Amoli emphasizes that this reflects the historical context of war during early Islam, where captives were integrated into society under specific regulations to ensure their dignity and rights.

2. Marriage and Chastity: The verse stresses the importance of seeking lawful relationships through marriage, promoting chastity and avoiding unlawful sexual conduct. This aligns with the Quran's broader emphasis on moral and social order.

3. Dowry (Mahr): The requirement to provide dowry underscores the financial responsibility and respect owed to women in marriage. Ayatollah Jawadi Amoli highlights this as a safeguard for women's rights and a means to honor their status.

4. Divine Wisdom: The concluding part of the verse reminds believers of Allah’s wisdom and knowledge, encouraging adherence to divine guidance for both individual and societal well-being.

This tafsir integrates historical context with moral principles, emphasizing justice, respect, and responsibility in relationships.

It clearly states it was allowed to have sex slave other thing you explained are the alternative options.

How does killing ones family then taking them captive regain ones dignity.

Islam cloud have prohibited it altogether 

[DANISH ALI]

I didn't get answer,just here arguing with everyone.

This is getting tiring for everyone so I am leaving this forum.

Thanks for your replies.

 

Edited March 8 by DANISH ALI

[mahmood8726]

8 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

Ok first I admit I was wrong about embryology and you win.

But still your answer about eternal hell,is not satisfactory for me.

That's on you my friend, but disbeleif being the worst sin, makes a lot of sense if islam is the truth. 

8 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

3]The reason why I mentioned Aisha marriage was because the replier was Sunni in their text which they consider authentic,as her age clearly written as 9.

My point here was islam allows child marriage.Here is the proof 

Book teherul wissila volume 2 page 216

Ayatullah khumine 

It is forbidden to have sex with a wife younger than 9 years old, regardless of whether the marriage is temporary or permanent.But all other pleasures including groping with lust, hand jobs and thighing are permissible, even to a baby."

You could also check the ruling of ayatullah sistani.

Back in the day, there was no concept of adolescence, I hope you understand this. Litterally every civilisation had the idea that you became an adult in 1 day, tribes in the Amazon rainforest beleived you turned from a boy to a man after you put gloves full of bullet ants, in most of the world however, Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Greek pagans, etc.... mostly beleived that a girl turned into a woman at 9-10 and a boy turned into a man at 12-13. Back then when a girl turned that age, she was cleaning the house, making food, etc... and when a boy turned 13, he was sent into battle to die in some war or to behead some ennemy soldier. It's ridicilous to compare today's standards where we are soft and live spoiled lives to back then, this isn't even my opinion, most historians agree with me, calling them p***philes for this is ridicilous. At this point you're arguing for the sake of arguing, because "i find this hard to beleive". 

 

As for these Excerpts from sayed sistani, or sayed khamenaei or sayed khomeini(rh), these are because as I told you in islam a girl at that age becomes an adult, you become responsible for your actions and you can end up in jahannam. You're taking a bunch of books that focus on technicality in islam and you're ignoring the fact that in the modern world this might not apply because a 9 year old girl today is most probably not mature enough to be an adult and doing child marriage is a terrible idea in the modern world. 

 

As for marriage as a child? I'm pretty sure back then they even had marriages before their spouse was born, many kings did this to form alliances between their kingdoms, where they married the daughter of the other king before she was even born, as far as I am aware litterally everyone did it, especialially christians as they were more feudal in their societies. You seem to be confusing marriage for consummation of marriage(sex between couples). 

 

There is a lot of things people like sayed sistani might say, which wont necessarly apply all the time.

I have an example, according to sayed khamenaei, working a job where you handle haram food like pig, is haram.

Guess what? In a non muslim majority country, it's halal to work such a job, in a Muslim majority country, it's haram.

8 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

4] Also i find it very vague answer about Yajuj and majuj 

Better luck.defending this.

Thank you brother 

 

 

I'm personally of the interpretation that mentions that yajuj and majuj are not cave people waiting to be released, but it refers to a specific people who have a lot of power in this world, people like sheikh Imran hussein reffered to them as the ones who control power in the western world, Israel, etc..., but this is a lengthy discussion. 

 

Everything I stated here is my understanding of Islam, so obviously I might be wrong on some things here. 

Edited March 8 by mahmood8726

[mahmood8726]

8 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

The arguments i provided are about the foundations islam stands for.

Righteous 

Equality 

Treatment of human beings 

Salvation 

You didn't provide replies just your opinions 

No they're not. 

Your issue is that you focus on the specifics of Islam, none of what you said prove islam is wrong, almost everything you said here is something in islam that makes you uncomfortable. 

Islam contradicting western ideals =/= islam is wrong. 

 

You're focusing too much on the specifics of islam, the specifics of islam which you find make you uncomfortable, rather than focusing on the foundation, such as if Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) exists, if muhammad(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was a prophet, etc...

 

The only specific arguments which you stated, that were good arguments, were the embryology one and the eternal hell one, as these arguments could prove a contradiction in islam.

But the embryology one was your assumption that the arabic word only meant "then" and the eternal hell one, was your assumption that Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is a god that loves you unconditionally like in Christianity, which is false. A god that loves you unconditionally is an irrational god, thankfully in islam Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is reasonable and people going to jahanam forever does not contradict anything in islam, not even the justice part, you finding this hard to beleive =/= it's false my friend.

Edited March 8 by mahmood8726

[mahmood8726]

@DANISH ALI i see that you're reading the replies now. I just finished editing them, so some things might be diffirent as I wrote some mistakes in my replies. 

 

Before you leave, take your time to research this stuff instead of leaving your choice of your salvation on a shiachat forum, this kind of stuff takes a lifetime, don't be reckless with this my friend, especially if you are young.

[realizm]

9 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

This dude.

Try to upgrade your manners, because people in atheist circles may tend not to have as much patience as we did with you. 

Now good luck moving on. 

[Muslim2010]

1 hour ago, mahmood8726 said:

@DANISH ALI i see that you're reading the replies now. I just finished editing them, so some things might be diffirent as I wrote some mistakes in my replies. 

Before you leave, take your time to research this stuff instead of leaving your choice of your salvation on a shiachat forum, this kind of stuff takes a lifetime, don't be reckless with this my friend, especially if you are young.

The Quran answers for such thoughts as given below:

فَمَن يُرِدِ اللَّهُ أَن يَهْدِيَهُ يَشْرَحْ صَدْرَهُ لِلْإِسْلَامِ ۖ وَمَن يُرِدْ أَن يُضِلَّهُ يَجْعَلْ صَدْرَهُ ضَيِّقًا حَرَجًا كَأَنَّمَا يَصَّعَّدُ فِي السَّمَاءِ ۚ كَذَٰلِكَ يَجْعَلُ اللَّهُ الرِّجْسَ عَلَى الَّذِينَ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ

Therefore (for) whomsoever Allah intends that He would guide him aright, He expands his breast for Islam, and (for) whomsoever He intends that He should cause him to err, He makes his breast strait and narrow as though he were ascending upwards; thus does Allah lay uncleanness on those who do not believe. (6:125) 

[DANISH ALI]

2 hours ago, realizm said:

Try to upgrade your manners, because people in atheist circles may tend not to have as much patience as we did with you. 

Now good luck moving on. 

Sorry.

But no offence to you.

I couldn't your arguments and points.

Well i will try to look for answers.

Thanks for replying 

[DANISH ALI]

3 hours ago, mahmood8726 said:

@DANISH ALI i see that you're reading the replies now. I just finished editing them, so some things might be diffirent as I wrote some mistakes in my replies. 

 

Before you leave, take your time to research this stuff instead of leaving your choice of your salvation on a shiachat forum, this kind of stuff takes a lifetime, don't be reckless with this my friend, especially if you are young. 

 

Yeah I am not leaving completely it, until I have researched enough to look for answers.

I won't be reckless or in a hurry.

Thanks for past days.

[Borntowitnesstruth]

18 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

Ok first I admit I was wrong about embryology and you win.

 

Ok, I am happy that you agree on this.

18 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

But still your answer about eternal hell,is not satisfactory for me.

 

I am not gonna repeat about that. Eternal hell is for those who deserve it not for everyone. 

18 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

3]The reason why I mentioned Aisha marriage was because the replier was Sunni in their text which they consider authentic,as her age clearly written as 9.

 

Even according to Sunni standards, the hadith do not sit well with historical facts. Sahih books does not mean that every hadith is Sahih in them that is why there are loads of commentaries about them.

18 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

My point here was islam allows child marriage.Here is the proof 

 

There is no problem with child marriage in some cases but marriage should be consummated after puberty such as If you are grown up man and you have a family and one of your dear friend dies with his whole family leaving behind his daughter who has no relative to take care after her. So, you raise that orphan but people begin to call you that she is non-mahram to you, so one way to make her your mahram is to get her nikkah with your younger son so that she becomes your mahram so that you keep taking care of her until she gets old enough to consummate the marriage or reject the marriage so that you can marry her off to someone else.

 

18 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

Ayatullah khumine 

It is forbidden to have sex with a wife younger than 9 years old, regardless of whether the marriage is temporary or permanent.But all other pleasures including groping with lust, hand jobs and thighing are permissible, even to a baby."

You could also check the ruling of ayatullah sistani.

Well, I have been hearing such words and such claims but I have not seen those books since the day I read them. There have been people in Saudi Arabia who have been printing books in the names of Ayotullah Khamnei and other Ayotullahs and even sometimes there have been wrongful pasting in the names of Ayotullahs. These are so much bad lies that even the bigger opponents of Shia religion do not mention it because they know that it will soon follow by a denial from the office of Ayotullahs. If you were famous and your intials and handwriting was online, I can make a book in your name and say anything bad that I want. 

Furthermore, it is simple fact that you must know that all Ayotullahs say that Marriages require consent of parties without consent such marriage is invalid and such consent means parties to the marriage can consummate with each other along with fulfilling other responsibilities. In case of a marriage to a minor, the consent of a minor is pending until he or she reaches puberty, it is after that he becomes eligible to fulfill all the responsibilities of marriage including consummation. So, Ayotullahs know this better than us and this thing which you mentioned is false and fabricated.

18 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

4] Also i find it very vague answer about Yajuj and majuj 

 

Well, it is not vague. I tell you a story, once a person came to Prophet Moses (عليه السلام) and said to him that make prayer for me so that I may understand language of animals as he was curious about it. Prophet Moses (عليه السلام) warned him but he did not stop requesting it. So, Prophet Moses (عليه السلام) made prayer for him and told him that his request has been granted. He went back home and the next day, he heard that his dog was complaining to his rooster that why did you eat my food? The rooster said that do not worry, the cow of our owner will die tomorrow and you will get to eat her meat as much as you want. The owner took the cow and sold it in market. The second day, the owner heard again that dog was complaining to rooster that he ate his food again but he could not have cow's meat as owner sold it. The rooster said that do not worry, the horse of our owner will die tomorrow and you can eat as much food as you want. Before that the owner went to market and sold the horse. The next day the dog again scolded rooster and said that what you said did not happen and the owner sold the horse and I could not eat to fill my stomach. The rooster said do not worry, tomorrow the owner will die and there will be funeral feast and you can eat as much as you want. So, the owner alarmed ran to Prophet Moses (عليه السلام) and told the whole story. Prophet Moses (عليه السلام) said that it happened because you did not accept the calamity of cow and horse as sadaqa for your life that is why you have to meet your end and it is now destined. 

So, brother, you see sometimes our own curiosity leads us to our destruction, had he not know language of animals, he would not have met such tragic end. Sometimes, you must accept that little information you have is mercy for you because you do not know what harm can you do to yourself if you had that much knowledge. I hope that will help you understand things.

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 3/8/2025 at 10:54 AM, DANISH ALI said:

To further clarify it is clearly mentioned in website of sistani that girls under 9 can be married.

9 year is stated as the year of penetration.If penteration happens before 9 year old the man has to provide living for the girl,even after divorce.

Girl until 9 year cant ask for divorce.

It couldn't more clear than this 

Salam respectfully this sick conclusion just product of your ill mind which have reached toward this nonsense through anti Islam & anti Shia propaganda.

while great events in the western countries  likewise  Paris olympic opening have been contained reinitiating pedophilia & sex abuse under guise of justification of constant of perpetrator & victim while they & naive people likewise you are judging Islam based on your ill mind but on the other hand you are deaf- blind about uprising pedophilia & sex abuse in your so called westerner countries .

How sexual violence in Denmark exposes the myth of its gender equality

Although Denmark is known as one of the world's top countries in terms of gender equality, it ranks rather poorly on gender-based violence.

Quote

“In rape cases in Denmark, there has to be very strong evidence, especially in cases where there are two parties who know each other... in such instances the perpetrator usually gets acquitted for lack of intention.”

Similar Panel code in Denmark in similar fashion of France for supporting perpetrator under guise of consent 

Quote

In 2018, the law against rape, under Section 216 of the Danish Penal Code, stated that an individual would be guilty of rape only if they “enforce[ed] sexual intercourse by violence or under threat of violence.” The law also required a perpetrator to have the criminal intention to commit the offence. “In rape cases in Denmark, there has to be very strong evidence,”

Finally, in December 2020, nearly three years after she began her movement, and on the back of huge pressure from the activists, Denmark passed the law that defined sex without consent as rape. It was only the twelfth European country to do so. “They also wrote in the law that marriage and partnership do not in themselves constitute consent,” Kirstine adds, triumphantly.

According to Gyrithe Ulrich, deputy state attorney, the new law has already been used to convict an individual for rape. She is quoted in a recent report by the Danish broadcaster DR, which evaluates the effects the change in law has had over the past year. According to the data, 2,126 people reported a rape in 2021; a 50% jump compared with 2020. Among these cases, however, only 1,682 suspects were charged: 740 were indicted by the court, and 248 were convicted.

Quote

 Denmark was ranked the second-highest gender equal country in the European Union, just behind Sweden. In 2017, however, according to another EIGE report, the country recorded the third highest score for violence against women in the EU.

Back in 2014, the EU’s Fundamental Rights Agency (FRA) had already published a landmark survey on violence against women based on a sample across 28 EU Member States. It revealed that Danish women reported the highest levels of physical, sexual and psychological violence in the EU, as well as the greatest prevalence of sexual harassment. According to the survey, an astounding 52% of Danish women reported having experienced physical and/or sexual violence since the age of 15.

Quote

"I really think that, alongside the culture, the media is part of the problem"

At the time, the Danish media ignored and even rejected the findings. “They wanted to show that what was said in the report was wrong. The men in the Danish media succeeded in closing the debate in 2014,” Kirstine says.

But here, yet again, a bunch of women were determined to shine light on the facts. In November 2019, Atreyee Sen, an associate professor at the University of Copenhagen, and two others, Marie Leine and Henrik Hvenegaard Mikkelsen, published a research paper on sexual violence in Denmark and the response to the FRA report. It demonstrated how the Danish political elite—including the media, politicians and political institutions—worked to present the findings as being “grotesque,” “misguided,” and “untrustworthy.”

https://ereb.eu/story/how-sexual-violence-in-denmark-exposes-the-myth-of-its-gender-equality/

France, Where Age of Consent Is Up for Debate

 

A case involving an 11-year-old girl has sparked a moment of moral and legal reckoning.

By Marie Doezema

 

France plagued by 'major impunity' of child sexual abuse crimes, campaigner says

 

Quote

that France is plagued by collective denial and major impunity of child sexual abuse.

 

https://www.france24.com/en/tv-shows/a-propos/20250224-france-plagued-by-major-impunity-of-child-sexual-abuse-crimes-campaigner-says

 

France Reveals Agenda To Become A Pedophile Haven As It Eyes Lowering Age Of Consent To 13

 

Quote

The law only states that an adult who performs a sexual act with a person under the age of 15 “without violence, coercion, threat or surprise” can be prosecuted for “sexual abuse,” not statutory rape.

https://www.europereloaded.com/france-reveals-agenda-become-pedophile-haven-eyes-lowering-age-consent-13/

A Victim’s Account Fuels a Reckoning Over Abuse of Children in France
A French author wrote for years about his predilection for children and continued to win acclaim. Now one of them has spoken out.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/07/world/europe/france-pedophilia-gabriel-matzneff.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_petitions_against_age-of-consent_laws

 

 

 

Quote

On April 24, 2017, a 28-year-old-man met an 11-year-old girl in a park in Montmagny, just north of Paris, after which he took her home where he had oral and vaginal sex with her. 

The accusations were of an adult raping a child—a crime that, in France, can lead to a 20-year prison sentence for the perpetrator when the victim is 15 or younger.

But it initially wasn’t charged that way. When the case first went to court in September, the man faced only charges of “sexual infraction,” a crime punishable with a maximum of five years in jail and a €75,000 fine. Under French law, a charge of rape requires “violence, coercion, threat, or surprise,” even if the victims are as young as the girl in the Montmagny case.

his fellow defense lawyer, added: “We are not dealing with a sexual predator on a poor little faultless goose.”

Such a defense flies in the face of legal and cultural consensus in most Western nations, and much of the world. “With children there is inevitably coercion,” Ernestine Ronai, co-president of the gender-based violence commission at the government’s High Council for Equality between Women and Men, told me. “It is indefensible that a girl of 11 could be considered consenting with a 28-year-old man. This is shocking,” she added.

Most other countries in Europe, including Spain, Belgium, Britain, Switzerland, Denmark, and Austria, have a legal age of consent. Most of the age minimums range from 14 to 16 years of age.

Quote

Fixing a specific age of consent means that children and adolescents below that age cannot, regardless of circumstances, be considered consenting to sex; their very age renders them incapable. As a result, an adult in most European nations who has sex with someone under this age would be charged with rape, even if violent force is not used.

A sexual minor can still legally be considered able to give their consent—in this case, their perpetrator would be charged with sexual infraction, not rape. In the 19th century, the age at which children were considered sexual minors was 11; later, it was raised to 13, and since 1945, it has been 15.

Quote

But in October 2016, the High Council for Equality Between Women and Men published a report on sexual violence in France. The council found that 20.4 percent of women reported experiencing at least one form of sexual violence over their lifetimes. For 6.8 percent of them, the crime they suffered was rape

Among the victims, 59 percent suffered their rape or sexual assault before they turned 18. In its conclusion, the council recommended establishing the still comparably low age of 13 as the age of consent. “We must start taking better care of victims,” Ronai told me in November. “We have to stop asking why: Why were you in the street alone? Why didn’t you scream? Why didn’t you leave?”

 

Quote

Muriel Salmona, a psychiatrist and president of the Traumatic Memory and Victimology Association, an advocacy group for victims, told me that a child’s inability to say no to a sexual predator is exactly why the law needs to protect them. “It’s a total lack of common sense,” she said. When children appear emotionally disengaged or numb in court, judges can assume they were not affected by their experience—in other words, that they consented, Salmona argued. The lack of a set age of consent leaves cases of sexual abuse involving children and minors up to the discretion of individual judges; furthermore, cases of rape are too often downgraded to sexual assault because such cases are considered “faster and easier” to move through the courts, Salmona said.

Jean-Hugues Déchaux, a sociologist at the Max Weber Center in Lyon, wrote in a 2014 critique of Verdrager’s book in the French Review of Sociology. In those years, Déchaux wrote, pro-pedophilia activists even formed associations with names like the Pedophile Liberation Front, the Research Action Front for a Different Childhood, and the Research Group for a Different Childhood. Pedophiles also began publishing their own journals, with titles like Backside, Le Petit Gredin, or “The Little Rogue,” and P’tit Loup, or “The Little Wolf.”

French intellectuals including Guy Hocquenghem,Gabriel Matzneff, and René Schérer became spokespeople for the movement. “Opponents of pedophilia were accused of being ‘reactionary’ and pedophiles were redefined not as guilty of sexual abuse but as victims, like homosexuals, of ‘retrograde’ legislation”—a reference to laws of the era that criminalized homosexuality and pedophilia.

 

Quote

, as Déchaux wrote, the nascent pro-pedophilia lobby attempted to “symmetricize” the relationship. In their writing, they characterized children as “clear-thinking, endowed with volition and discernment.” From this, it followed, they deserved the same rights as adults. “The notion of child protection was [deemed] patriarchal and denounced as a danger to the child’s personal integrity,” Déchaux wrote.

In 1979, Liberation published another petition, this time in support of Gérard R., a man on trial for having sex with girls between the ages of 6 and 12. It was signed by 63 people, many of them well-known intellectuals like Christiane Rochefort and Pascal Bruckner. It argued that the girls in question were “happy” with the situation. “The love of children is also the love of their bodies,” they wrote. “Desire and sexual games have their place in the relationship between children and adults. This is what Gérard R. thought and experienced with [the] girls … whose fulfillment proved to everyone, including their parents, the happiness they found with him.”

In France and elsewhere, a certain privilege is given to perpetrators in positions of power, particularly intellectuals and artists. Roman Polanski found a haven in France after fleeing rape charges in the United States in 1978, and has received support from prominent figures like former cultural minster Frédéric Mitterrand, who has blamed efforts to hold him accountable on American hysteria.

Quote

“France is late. Most European legislation has adopted an [irrefutable] presumption of lack of consent of the minor victim of sexual acts, with an age threshold, generally between 12 and 14 years,

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/03/frances-existential-crisis-over-sexual-harassment-laws/550700/

 

 

On 3/8/2025 at 10:54 AM, DANISH ALI said:

The example of Hitler is hilarious.He committed mass genocide.I took the example of a normal person non believing person.

You hav taken a vague example just to prove your Christian based nonsense about blind love of their god while there is many examples in similar fashion of  Genghiz Khan &  etc who have been best family men & heroes of their nation while they have been non believing which according to your false logic they won't go to hell because their god(s) love them more than their mother(s) 

 

 

Edited March 11 by Ashvazdanghe

[DANISH ALI]

On 3/9/2025 at 2:51 AM, Borntowitnesstruth said:

Ok, I am happy that you agree on this.

I am not gonna repeat about that. Eternal hell is for those who deserve it not for everyone. 

Even according to Sunni standards, the hadith do not sit well with historical facts. Sahih books does not mean that every hadith is Sahih in them that is why there are loads of commentaries about them.

There is no problem with child marriage in some cases but marriage should be consummated after puberty such as If you are grown up man and you have a family and one of your dear friend dies with his whole family leaving behind his daughter who has no relative to take care after her. So, you raise that orphan but people begin to call you that she is non-mahram to you, so one way to make her your mahram is to get her nikkah with your younger son so that she becomes your mahram so that you keep taking care of her until she gets old enough to consummate the marriage or reject the marriage so that you can marry her off to someone else.

 

Well, I have been hearing such words and such claims but I have not seen those books since the day I read them. There have been people in Saudi Arabia who have been printing books in the names of Ayotullah Khamnei and other Ayotullahs and even sometimes there have been wrongful pasting in the names of Ayotullahs. These are so much bad lies that even the bigger opponents of Shia religion do not mention it because they know that it will soon follow by a denial from the office of Ayotullahs. If you were famous and your intials and handwriting was online, I can make a book in your name and say anything bad that I want. 

Furthermore, it is simple fact that you must know that all Ayotullahs say that Marriages require consent of parties without consent such marriage is invalid and such consent means parties to the marriage can consummate with each other along with fulfilling other responsibilities. In case of a marriage to a minor, the consent of a minor is pending until he or she reaches puberty, it is after that he becomes eligible to fulfill all the responsibilities of marriage including consummation. So, Ayotullahs know this better than us and this thing which you mentioned is false and fabricated.

Well, it is not vague. I tell you a story, once a person came to Prophet Moses (عليه السلام) and said to him that make prayer for me so that I may understand language of animals as he was curious about it. Prophet Moses (عليه السلام) warned him but he did not stop requesting it. So, Prophet Moses (عليه السلام) made prayer for him and told him that his request has been granted. He went back home and the next day, he heard that his dog was complaining to his rooster that why did you eat my food? The rooster said that do not worry, the cow of our owner will die tomorrow and you will get to eat her meat as much as you want. The owner took the cow and sold it in market. The second day, the owner heard again that dog was complaining to rooster that he ate his food again but he could not have cow's meat as owner sold it. The rooster said that do not worry, the horse of our owner will die tomorrow and you can eat as much food as you want. Before that the owner went to market and sold the horse. The next day the dog again scolded rooster and said that what you said did not happen and the owner sold the horse and I could not eat to fill my stomach. The rooster said do not worry, tomorrow the owner will die and there will be funeral feast and you can eat as much as you want. So, the owner alarmed ran to Prophet Moses (عليه السلام) and told the whole story. Prophet Moses (عليه السلام) said that it happened because you did not accept the calamity of cow and horse as sadaqa for your life that is why you have to meet your end and it is now destined. 

So, brother, you see sometimes our own curiosity leads us to our destruction, had he not know language of animals, he would not have met such tragic end. Sometimes, you must accept that little information you have is mercy for you because you do not know what harm can you do to yourself if you had that much knowledge. I hope that will help you understand things.

Well i did my best in researching, watching the most prominent shia scholars, contacting the representative of ayatullah sistani and watching debates, checking online forums and I have decided to leave islam for GOOD,

It's my decision and I am not debating anymore.

I don't want to be part of this so called "religion of peace".

Just sadistic insanity in name of salvation.

Thank you.

 

Edited March 15 by DANISH ALI

[Abu Hadi]

On 3/7/2025 at 9:39 PM, DANISH ALI said:

If it annoys you don't bother answering. What is the logic of creating a person which you knew was going to hell,since he is all knowing,then punishing him for eternity just because he didn't believe.

Well you could say it was his free will which led to him hell,why was he created in first place,he had no choice but to be born,

If it is known for certianity he will go to hell,and he wold have given two choices either to be born live the life and end up in hell,or not be born at all 

Nobody would have wanted to be born.

In the famous Hadith from Imam Baqir((عليه السلام)), their is a discussion concerning this. I don't have the exact reference for it, but I have heard it multiple times from credible scholars.

The man asks the Imam((عليه السلام)), 'I am surprised how anyone can make it to heaven because of the severity of the test (i.e. refraining from sins when sinning is so easy to fall into)'

The Imam answered 'I am surprised how anyone can not make it to heaven (i.e. go to hell) because of the overwhelming mercy of Allah(s.w.a)'

The Imam is stating how despite the fact that sinning is so easy and evil is so common place, especially in today's world, the mercy of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is many orders of magnitude more powerful than this sin and evil and it is always available. Repentance is always an option even up to the point of death (ie before the soul reaches the throat). 

To your point directly, noone chooses to be born, but they make many millions of choices after that, of their own free will. Every human being, unless they are disabled, has complete control over their hands, arms, feet, mouth, eyes, etc. Also, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) gave us all the fitra (innate nature) so that we know instinctively what is right and wrong. If we use our freewill to harm ourselves and others (i.e. sin) and do what we know is wrong, then there is repentence and forgiveness. If we do it again, there is repentence and forgiveness again and again up until the time of death. 

For someone to realize this fact and then believe in their mind that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is unjust or punitive or mean, this is not a reality but a result of corruption of the soul on a very deep level as a result of this person's actions and it has no basis in reality. Like I said, hell is not predestined for anyone. It is a result of their actions because Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) gave them free will. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) knows everything, so obviously he knows what the end result will be. At the same time, he didn't cause this person to go to hell and gave them every possible opportunity to change and repent. They didn't take it, that's their choice, their own free will and Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) did not do that. 

Why he created them may vary. Most likely, they serve as an example for others of what not to do and how not to live your life. You probably know of many stories which are cautionary tales. There are too many examples of this, there are even many which are in the Quran, such as the story of Qaroon, the richest man on earth who became arrogant so Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) caused the earth to swallow him up along with his wealth. Qaroon became arrogant not because of anything Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) 'did to him' and he had every opportunity to stop himself and realize what he was doing. He obviously had a very good and sharp mind and was very disciplined in some areas of his life, as you find that you cannot become wealthy without these two qualities. At the same time, he did not apply this sharp mind and this discipline when it came to thinking about Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). He choose to do that and he got the consequences. Many people think about these examples, stop sinning and turn toward Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and gain Paradise after being on a path to Hell. So there is alot of benefit in these 'cautionary tales'. I have personally benefitted from them tremendously 

It is our choice, as human beings. Do we want Paradise or do we want to be a cautionary tale for others to benefit from. The only person determines that is us, thru the choices we make. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) knowing the choices we are going to make does not effect or negate this fact. 

[ireallywannaknow]

2 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

Well i did my best in researching, watching the most prominent shia scholars, contacting the representative of ayatullah sistani and watching debates, checking online forums and I have decided to leave islam for GOOD,

It's my decision and I am not debating anymore.

I don't want to be part of this so called "religion of peace".

Just sadistic insanity in name of salvation.

Thank you.

 

What is your belief system now then? 

[Muslim2010]

3 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

Well i did my best in researching, watching the most prominent shia scholars, contacting the representative of ayatullah sistani and watching debates, checking online forums and I have decided to leave islam for GOOD,

It's my decision and I am not debating anymore.

I don't want to be part of this so called "religion of peace".

Just sadistic insanity in name of salvation.

Thank you.

 

39:27  وَلَقَدۡ ضَرَبۡنَا لِلنَّاسِ فِی هَـٰذَا ٱلۡقُرۡءَانِ مِن كُلِّ مَثَلࣲ لَّعَلَّهُمۡ یَتَذَكَّرُونَ ۝٢٧

And certainly We have set forth to men in this Quran similitudes of every sort that they may mind.

فَمَن يُرِدِ اللَّهُ أَن يَهْدِيَهُ يَشْرَحْ صَدْرَهُ لِلْإِسْلَامِ ۖ وَمَن يُرِدْ أَن يُضِلَّهُ يَجْعَلْ صَدْرَهُ ضَيِّقًا حَرَجًا كَأَنَّمَا يَصَّعَّدُ فِي السَّمَاءِ ۚ كَذَٰلِكَ يَجْعَلُ اللَّهُ الرِّجْسَ عَلَى الَّذِينَ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ

Therefore (for) whomsoever Allah intends that He would guide him aright, He expands his breast for Islam, and (for) whomsoever He intends that He should cause him to err, He makes his breast strait and narrow as though he were ascending upwards; thus does Allah lay uncleanness on those who do not believe. (6:125) 

No further remarks needed for a kind of person proceeding in life and possible after life blindly. 

Edited March 15 by Muslim2010

[mahmood8726]

3 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

Well i did my best in researching, watching the most prominent shia scholars, contacting the representative of ayatullah sistani and watching debates, checking online forums and I have decided to leave islam for GOOD,

Your loss, although your arguments haven't been so great to be honest. 

3 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

It's my decision and I am not debating anymore.

You don't need to debate, researching islam takes a lifetime, but you chose to give up so early, our advice is to not give up, but that again is your choice, atleast we gave you the message and you can't claim ignorance anymore, you're a responsible adult, your choice. 

3 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

I don't want to be part of this so called "religion of peace".

Islam is a religion of realism, not peace, we're not Buddhism. Again this here shows that your expectations of Islam, led you to be disappointed in islam and made you leave islam. This is why basing your beleifs on the solid foundations of islam is highly important, rather than basing them on expectations you have on specific rulings of islam. 

3 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

Just sadistic insanity in name of salvation.

There is nothing sadistic or insane about following the commandments of Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) by worshipping him and him alone and trying your best in a sinciere manner to follow said commandments in order to attain salvation. 

If anything it's straight forward and reasonable. 

Insanity is being on the train ride of life and not asking where that train is going and instead wasting time getting angry at the one who made you and put you in that train because you didn't like their rules that contradicted the dogmatic ideals you grew up with and then eventually you gave up on asking any questions because you wanted to enjoy the train ride as much as possible as that would be less exhausting and more fun. 

[mahmood8726]

1 hour ago, ireallywannaknow said:

What is your belief system now then? 

Probably aethiesm.

[Abu Nur]

6 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

Well i did my best in researching, watching the most prominent shia scholars, contacting the representative of ayatullah sistani and watching debates, checking online forums and I have decided to leave islam for GOOD,

It's my decision and I am not debating anymore.

I don't want to be part of this so called "religion of peace".

Just sadistic insanity in name of salvation.

Thank you.

 

Good luck with your new religion. 

Edited March 15 by Abu Nur

[guestEnjoyer]

7 hours ago, DANISH ALI said:

Well i did my best in researching, watching the most prominent shia scholars, contacting the representative of ayatullah sistani and watching debates, checking online forums and I have decided to leave islam for GOOD,

It's my decision and I am not debating anymore.

I don't want to be part of this so called "religion of peace".

Just sadistic insanity in name of salvation.

Thank you.

 

It's always interesting in my opinion when westerns, liberals, atheists say these sorts of things. Like here implying that Islam is some crazy violent religion. If western liberals look at their history you will find the most absurd acts of violence done by the atheist west! Americans constantly justify nuking 2 cities full of innocent women and children, destroying Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, etc, etc. Why? These people didn't fall under the 'religion' of liberalism, they were not classified as "civil" people and deserved destruction. The level of scrutiny that Islam is put under by atheists for "violence" is stupid when they themselves will justify nuking Japan with whatever garbage reason they can find. Also if you want to see "sadistic insanity" I would recommend going on reddit and saying homosexuality is evil or that trans people cannot change their gender.

[DigitalDiamond]

Since the brothers and sisters already did a good job answering your doubts, there isn't much to add except this:

God punishes those who were exposed to the truth and reject it. Let me ask you then, have you been convinced Islam is the truth? Because a) you either haven't been exposed or convinced of the truth yet or b) the truth is the truth -- why would anyone reject it??

[Borntowitnesstruth]

On 3/15/2025 at 7:38 PM, DANISH ALI said:

Well i did my best in researching, watching the most prominent shia scholars, contacting the representative of ayatullah sistani and watching debates, checking online forums and I have decided to leave islam for GOOD,

It's my decision and I am not debating anymore.

I don't want to be part of this so called "religion of peace".

Just sadistic insanity in name of salvation.

Thank you.

 

My brother, I know that you must be aware of how much truth is in there in your claims. This world is a test and each of us is a fitting response to other, while you fell to the deception of shaitan, someone else might be fighting against it believing in God that in due time all secrets would be revealed to him. So, how good is a person who waited and was patient with his questions of whose answers he did not know, and how bad a person who could not wait due to shaitan and the former became his befitting reply by God. 

The mere reason you say you want to leave Islam is that you do not know answers of some questions. That is where, the role of a divine leader comes to play, there were divine leaders who knew these answers but were oppressed so that nations may not flock to them and raise them as leaders, their presence was a trial for whole Muslim Ummah to see who treated them the best way. So, those who treated them best were satiated with the divine knowledge such that they became a parable for the people like Maysam Timar, Qanbar, Miqdad, Salman, and Bahlol. Those who treated them bad, their names have become cursed and their generations unknown. Our test is to hold fast on the knowledge we know, and keep record of the things that we do not know for the one Imam who is in occultation. So, those who wait for him, Allah (عزّ وجلّ) would reward them and those who could not will have its consequence.

Quran says, if you disobey, Allah (عزّ وجلّ) would raise others to worship him and they will love Allah (عزّ وجلّ) and Allah (عزّ وجلّ) would love them. So, Islam does not lose anything if you leave it, albeit you will lose everything. 

There is nothing sadistic insane about Islam except your own nafs, you live on God's earth, eat what he provides, walk on feet that he gave you, use your hands that he gave you, and speak foul about him from the tongue he gave you yet you think so lowly of Him, it is your Iblis who is sadistic deriving pleasure for himself from your unthankful behavior. You have nothing of your own brother upon which you can have claim, all that you have is gift from God yet you are unthankful to Him and worship Shaitan. Good luck with that.

[DANISH ALI]

13 hours ago, Borntowitnesstruth said:

My brother, I know that you must be aware of how much truth is in there in your claims. This world is a test and each of us is a fitting response to other, while you fell to the deception of shaitan, someone else might be fighting against it believing in God that in due time all secrets would be revealed to him. So, how good is a person who waited and was patient with his questions of whose answers he did not know, and how bad a person who could not wait due to shaitan and the former became his befitting reply by God. 

The mere reason you say you want to leave Islam is that you do not know answers of some questions. That is where, the role of a divine leader comes to play, there were divine leaders who knew these answers but were oppressed so that nations may not flock to them and raise them as leaders, their presence was a trial for whole Muslim Ummah to see who treated them the best way. So, those who treated them best were satiated with the divine knowledge such that they became a parable for the people like Maysam Timar, Qanbar, Miqdad, Salman, and Bahlol. Those who treated them bad, their names have become cursed and their generations unknown. Our test is to hold fast on the knowledge we know, and keep record of the things that we do not know for the one Imam who is in occultation. So, those who wait for him, Allah (عزّ وجلّ) would reward them and those who could not will have its consequence.

Quran says, if you disobey, Allah (عزّ وجلّ) would raise others to worship him and they will love Allah (عزّ وجلّ) and Allah (عزّ وجلّ) would love them. So, Islam does not lose anything if you leave it, albeit you will lose everything. 

There is nothing sadistic insane about Islam except your own nafs, you live on God's earth, eat what he provides, walk on feet that he gave you, use your hands that he gave you, and speak foul about him from the tongue he gave you yet you think so lowly of Him, it is your Iblis who is sadistic deriving pleasure for himself from your unthankful behavior. You have nothing of your own brother upon which you can have claim, all that you have is gift from God yet you are unthankful to Him and worship Shaitan. Good luck with that.

Wow,what an intelligent argument.I am shocked,how ignorant some people are.

This is my last response to this thread,I don't want to waste more time on this death cult.

I see where you’re coming from, but your argument is based on assumptions rather than actual reasoning. Let me break it down for you.

1. You assume doubt is from Shaitan.

You say I “fell to the deception of Shaitan” just because I have questions. But isn’t seeking knowledge encouraged in Islam? If doubt is always from Shaitan, then why did even prophets ask questions? Ibrahim  asked Allah how He resurrects the dead (Quran 2:260), not because he didn’t believe, but because he sought understanding. Questioning isn't disbelief—it’s a path to clarity.

2. Patience doesn’t mean blind waiting.

You say a person who waits for answers is good, and the one who doesn’t is bad. But what if a person waits and never gets answers? Is that still good? If someone is seeking truth sincerely and doesn’t find it in Islam, is it right to tell them to suppress their intellect and just wait? That’s not patience—that’s stagnation.

3. The role of divine leaders doesn’t solve the problem.

You say there were divine leaders who had the answers, but they were oppressed, so people couldn’t reach them. That’s an explanation for why answers weren’t accessible, not proof that Islam itself is true. If knowledge was hidden from people, how can they be blamed for not having it? And even today, we are told to wait for an Imam in occultation. If clarity and guidance are so important, why would Allah leave people in the dark for over a thousand years?

4. Islam doesn’t lose anything if I leave? That’s irrelevant.

You say, "Islam doesn’t lose anything if I leave, but I lose everything." That’s an appeal to fear, not a logical argument. The truth of a belief isn’t determined by how much one might lose or gain but by whether it is actually true. Threatening loss isn’t proof of correctness.

5. The gratitude argument is flawed.

You say I “live on God’s earth, eat His food, and yet speak against Him.” But that assumes from the start that everything belongs to God. If someone doesn’t believe in Islam’s version of God, then this argument falls apart. I could just as easily say, “You live in a world governed by reason, yet you abandon reason to hold on to blind faith.” Would that convince you? Probably not.

5]Islam's concept of Allah is undeniably sadistic when you break it down logically. First, the idea of eternal Hell for finite sins is pure cruelty. No matter how much someone questions or disbelieves, punishing them with never-ending torture is infinitely disproportionate. A just and merciful God wouldn’t sentence someone to eternal suffering for a few decades of mistakes or disbelief. Second, Islam commands violent punishments like cutting off hands for theft (5:38) and lashing for adultery (24:2). Instead of reforming people, these laws focus on inflicting pain and fear, which is the very definition of sadism. Third, the concept of predestination (Qadr) makes it even worse—Allah supposedly decides who will believe and who won’t (10:100), then punishes people for choices they never truly had. That’s like a dictator torturing someone for failing a test that was rigged from the start. A truly merciful and just being wouldn't behave like this.

 

 

6. Accusations of worshipping Shaitan are baseless.

You claim I “worship Shaitan.” But where did I say that? Just because someone questions Islam doesn’t mean they’ve turned to Satan. This is another emotional argument meant to shame rather than provide a real answer.

If Islam is true, it should withstand questioning without needing fear tactics, assumptions, or emotional manipulation. Instead of labeling doubt as a failure, why not engage with it honestly?

Yeah good luck with following your religion,I hope you get to Jannah,and for me I am glad,I left Islam.

[DANISH ALI]

On 3/16/2025 at 10:11 AM, DigitalDiamond said:

Since the brothers and sisters already did a good job answering your doubts, there isn't much to add except this:

God punishes those who were exposed to the truth and reject it. Let me ask you then, have you been convinced Islam is the truth? Because a) you either haven't been exposed or convinced of the truth yet or b) the truth is the truth -- why would anyone reject it??

I don't why do I even bother to reply perosn like this but,here is my reply digital diamond,bro thinks he has a point.

This argument presents a false dilemma. You claim that anyone who rejects Islam must either be ignorant of the truth or deliberately rejecting it out of arrogance. But this assumes that Islam is so self-evidently true that no rational person could reject it after understanding it. That’s simply not the case.

People reject Islam for many reasons, and not all of them are due to arrogance. Some people genuinely investigate Islam and conclude that it is not the truth. They see contradictions, moral issues, or historical inconsistencies. If Islam were as clear as you claim, then why are there former Muslims—people who knew the Quran, studied hadith, and practiced Islam—who still left? Are you saying every single one of them is just arrogant? That’s an easy excuse but a weak argument.

You also assume that exposure to Islam automatically equals conviction. But exposure does not equal evidence, and evidence does not equal certainty. Just because someone reads the Quran doesn’t mean they find it convincing. Just because someone hears da’wah doesn’t mean they believe it. If God only punishes those who reject Islam after being convinced that it is true, then how does that work? Does He directly put knowledge into their heart? If so, why do people still reject it? And if not, then how can they be blamed for not believing?

Let’s flip your question: Have you been exposed to other religions or worldviews? Have you studied them in depth? If not, how do you know you’re not the one rejecting the truth? If you have, why do you think others who study Islam can’t come to a different conclusion?

The reality is that belief is not a simple equation of “hearing = accepting.” People evaluate evidence differently. If someone sincerely evaluates Islam and does not find it convincing, then either:

 

1. The evidence wasn’t strong enough.

2. God didn’t guide them despite their sincerity.

3. They were never meant to believe.

In all three cases, punishing them is unjust. If God only punishes deliberate arrogance, then He should know who is truly arrogant and who is simply unconvinced. But humans don’t have that knowledge—so why assume all non-Muslims reject the truth out of arrogance?

 

The truth isn’t what you assume it to be—it’s what stands up to scrutiny. And if Islam were so undeniably true, nobody would leave it. Yet they do. That alone proves my point.

 

 

[laithAlIRAQI]

Jamen hvis du er så overbevist at islam ikke er den korrekte religion eller som du kaldte det, et dødskult. Så spørg dig selv om du overhovedet nogensinde inderst inde var en del af det. Dit adfærd og attitude viser jo at du aldrig var fuldstændig troende eller som om religionen skal forme sig ud fra dine egne holdninger og morale kompas.

Altså hvis du har taget en beslutning og er overbevist om at det er det korrekte at gøre, hvorfor så side og diskutere pointeløst?