How do zaydis differe from 12vers?

[yasiin sadiq]

What makes Zaydis different for the 12ver sect?

[Ashvazdanghe]

2 hours ago, yasiin sadiq said:

What makes Zaydis different for the 12ver sect?

Salam main difference is imamate after Imam hussain (عليه السلام) & Imam mahdi (aj) which 12ver believe that all 12 infallible Imams have been introduced through divine command while Zaydis believe that anyone even fallible with mistakes  from lineage of Imam Hasan (عليه السلام) or Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) who rises by sword against tyrant ruler will be their Imam which pardoxically some of Zaydis believe that Imam Mahdi (aj0 will be from lineage of Imam Hasan (عليه السلام) who will rise by sword according to uprising of people from  from lineage of Imam Hasan (عليه السلام) during era of Abbasids . 

[PureExistence1]

Salaam,

Zaydis and Twelver Shias differ significantly in theology, leadership beliefs, and practices:

1. Imamate and Leadership:

   • Twelvers believe in 12 divinely appointed, infallible Imams, with the 12th Imam in occultation until his return.

   • Zaydis recognize Zayd ibn Ali as the 5th Imam instead of Muhammad al-Baqir and reject infallibility. They view any qualified descendant of Hasan or Husayn who rises against tyranny as eligible for the imamate.

2. Selection of Imams:Twelvers follow nass (divine designation) for imams.

   • Zaydis emphasize community recognition and active resistance against oppression.

3. Theological Stance:

   • Twelvers accept doctrines like taqiyya (dissimulation) and bada' (change in divine will), while Zaydis generally reject these.

   • Zaydis lean toward rationalism and are closer to Sunni jurisprudence, including performing wudhu like Sunnis.

4. Cultural and Political Differences:

   • Zaydism is more politically activist, focusing on overthrowing unjust rulers, while Twelvers emphasize awaiting the Mahdi's return for justice.

   • Zaydis are primarily based in Yemen, where they historically held political power.

These distinctions make Zaydism closer to Sunni Islam than Twelver Shi'ism in some aspects.

[StrangerInThisWorld]

Salamun 'alaykum, 

from a Zaydi point of view the correct way is in following the Book of Allah ta'ala in accordance to the understanding of the Ahl al-Bayt al-kiram (peace be upon them). 

Rasulullah (sallallahu 'alayhi wa alihi wa sallam) specified Ali bin Abi Talib (peace be upon him) as the Mawla of every believer, Fatimat al-Zahra (peace be upon her) as Sayyidat Nisa al-'Alamin and their sons al-Hassan wal Hussayn (peace be upon them) as Sayyida Shababi Ahl al-Janna. Together with our noble Prophet (may endless peace and blessings be upon him and his pure family) they form the Ahl al-Kisa and following them is absolutely obligatory. 

As for the progeny of al-Hassan wal Hussayn (peace be upon them), then the Zaydiyya believe that they preserved the understanding of Ahl al-Kisa (peace and blessings be upon them) and that's why the agreement of the blessed progeny is a Hujja for them. 

As for leadership after al-Hassan wal Hussayn (peace be upon them): Anyone from their progeny, who is just, brave, knowledgeable, pious and stands up against the oppressors in order to implement justice is an Imam, whose obedience is obligatory. 

One thing needs to be understood here: The point of an Imam after Rasulullah (sallallahu 'alayhi wa alihi wa sallam) and the Ahl al-Kisa (peace be upon them) in general is NOT to add things into the religion, because the religion is already complete and perfected, but rather to command good and implement justice and to prohibit evil and stop oppression. 

From a Zaydi point of view Imam al-Baqir and Imam Zayd al-Shahid (peace be upon them) are both upon guidance and their main teachings are the same. 

 

There are five major issues of creed in Zaydi thought:

1) Tawhid: The Oneness of Allah ta'ala and the fact that He is transcendent above any likeness or similarity to His creation. They believe in divine simplicity. 

2) 'Adl: Which is divine justice. Allah ta'ala has given His slaves the ability to obey him or disobey him and as such they will be held accountable for their choices and their actions. It's not allowed to claim that Allah ta'ala creates sins or oppression. 

3) Wa'ad and Wa'id: Whatever Allah ta'ala has promised from rewards for the God-fearing and the pious and from the punishment for the oppressors and the disobedient will come to pass as He stated. This also means that anyone who commits major sins and crimes and does not repent nor show any intention to go back towards the right path and dies in this state, will enter hellfire forever as established in the Book of Allah ta'ala. 

4) Amr bil Ma'ruf and Nahi 'an al-Munkar: Commanding good and forbidding evil as is established explicitly in the Quran al-karım. This is why obedience to oppressors is complete falsehood. Rather it's obligatory to help the poor and the weak and to upheld justice and to stand against oppression and injustice. 

5) Imama: Which is leadership and it entails to accept the Imama and Wilaya of Amir al-Muminin 'Ali bin Abi Talib and al-Hassan wal Hussayn (peace be upon them) due to the words of Rasulullah (sallallahu' alayhi wa alihi wa sallam) concerning them. After them anyone from their progeny, who is just, brave, knowledgeable, pious and who stands up to upheld justice is an Imam to be obeyed. 

Edited March 1 by StrangerInThisWorld

[StrangerInThisWorld]

On 2/26/2025 at 12:45 PM, PureExistence1 said:

Zaydism is more politically activist, focusing on overthrowing unjust rulers, while Twelvers emphasize awaiting the Mahdi's return for justice.

Commanding good and forbidding evil - which includes to oppose unjust rulers - can be done (and should be done according to the Book of Allah ta'ala) while believing in the existence of Imam al-Mahdi (peace be upon him). 

 

There is a difference on Imam al-Mahdi (peace be upon him) between Zaydis and 12ers:

Zaydis believe that Imam al-Mahdi (peace be upon him) will be from the progeny of al-Hassan or al-Hussayn (peace be upon them), while 12ers specify him as the son of Imam al-'Askari (peace be upon him) and believe him to he in Ghayba. 

Whatever the case is: For Zaydis obedience to any just and pious Fatimi leader, who stands up for justice, applies anyways. 

Edited March 1 by StrangerInThisWorld

[StrangerInThisWorld]

On 2/26/2025 at 12:45 PM, PureExistence1 said:

These distinctions make Zaydism closer to Sunni Islam than Twelver Shi'ism in some aspects.

In "some aspects" maybe, but not on any major issue of creed. 

Sunnis usually love to claim that Zaydis are closer to Sunnis simply to demonize 12ers and this while having no clue what Zaydiyya believe or teach. 

If you look at the 5 major issues that make up the foundation of Zaydi creed (al-Tawhid, al-'Adl, al-Wa'ad wal Wa'id, al-Amr bil Ma'ruf wal Nahi 'an al-Munkar and al-Imama), you will see that they do NOT agree with Sunnis on a single point of them! 

And even the issue of the Sahaba, which the Sunnis are so obsessed about: Zaydiyya obviously don't go around acting as if all Sahaba were evil (nor do normal 12ers do this, but Sunnis think that 12ers are all some sort of weird Shirazis), but they're far away from believing in the unislamic idea of 'Adalat al-Sahaba, rather they believe that there were good and bad Sahaba and those in between. 

Edited March 1 by StrangerInThisWorld