Jump to content
In the Name of God بسم الله

Travel prayer rule is confusing

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

  • Advanced Member
Posted

I keep hearing how travel prayer is if your destination is 22km from your city, but here in the book

 

411. The criterion for calculating the shar‘ī distance is the distance between the end of the city of departure and the beginning of the city of destination*; whether the city is large or not.

* i.e. from the last houses in the city of departure till the first houses of the city of destination.

 

So does this mean if i go to a city just bordering my own city, there would be no distance since there is no distance between the two? Even if the two cities are massive? Or am i misunderstanding something?

Or for my current scenario, i go to city C through city B from city A. The width of city B is only 10km, even though if we calculate from the border of city A to my destination inside city C, it would be 30km (my destination is deep inside city C, not in the border)

Thanks

 

Also i just realized that since city boundary can be changed by the government, if i am a president i can change the city border due to my travel need so i can pray shortened prayer everytime :P

  • Advanced Member
Posted
1 hour ago, Botak said:

Or for my current scenario, i go to city C through city B from city A. The width of city B is only 10km, even though if we calculate from the border of city A to my destination inside city C, it would be 30km (my destination is deep inside city C, not in the border)

Thanks

 

Also i just realized that since city boundary can be changed by the government, if i am a president i can change the city border due to my travel need so i can pray shortened prayer everytime :P

Salam your prayer in city of C will be shortened because your total travel will be total of going & return 30+30=60  so therefor your prayer  will be shortened just for 10 days .

if you travel between cities likewise a truck driver so therefore your prayer wont be shortened .  

Quote

Technical Definition of Traveller in Jurisprudence

According to Islamic Jurisprudence, a Traveller (whose prayer must be shortened) is:

  1. a person whose travel exceeds the Shar'i distance, that is, the covered distance (whether going or going and returning combined) must be at least eight Shar'i leagues (approximately forty-five kilometres.)
  2. From the beginning of the trip, the traveller must be aware of covering or exceeding the mentioned distance; and must remain so until reaching the distance.
  3. The traveller must not cross his hometown anywhere within the mentioned distance; neither should he remain somewhere ten days or more.

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Al-Qasr_Prayer

Quote

Difference Between Distance and the Limit of Tarakhkhus

According to Shiite jurists, if a person sets out with the intention of visiting a place that is about eight parasangs (equivalent to forty to forty-five kilometers), This 8-parasang is the Shar'i distance.

The traveler can shorten their prayers or break their fast only if they have travelled a certain distance. This is called the limit of Tarakhkhus (the distance at which the call for prayers in the departed city is not heard or the walls of its houses are not visible). This criterion also applies to when one arrives in his or her hometown or where one will stay for over ten days

Distance or Intended Distance
According to the fatwa of the majority of Shiite jurists, one counts as a Shar'i traveler when he or she intends to travel eight parasangs from the very beginning of their travel. But if they travel such a distance without having had such an intention, then they cannot shorten their prayers or break their fasts. For example, if one is looking for a lost person without intending to travel eight parasangs, but happens to travel such a distance, then one does not count as a Shar'i traveler.

Calculation in Kilometers

Shiite scholars of jurisprudence have disagreed over how many kilometers a parasang is. Therefore, they calculate the 8-parasang criteria differently: 40 kilomers, 43 kilometers, 44 kilometers, and 45 kilometers.

Quote

Calculation of the Shar'i Distance

In the fasting section of Wasa'il al-Shi'a, Shaykh al-Hurr al-'Amili cited over thirty hadiths regarding the shar'i distance. According to these hadiths, there are different criteria for such a distance:

  • The distance travelled by a caravan during a day,
  • Eight parasangs
  • Two "barid"s (the distance between two stations travelled by a mailman on foot or on a horse)
  • Twenty-four miles.

In some hadiths, two or three criteria are mentioned together. According to a hadith from Imam al-Rida (a), eight parasangs equal to the distance travelled by a caravan during a day. According to a hadith from Imam al-Sadiq (a), two barids equal to 24 miles.

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Shar'i_distance

  • Advanced Member
Posted
5 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam your prayer in city of C will be shortened because your total travel will be total of going & return 30+30=60  so therefor your prayer

But the ruling book said the distance calculated is from the end of the starting ciry and the start of the destination city?

  • Advanced Member
Posted
14 hours ago, Botak said:

I keep hearing how travel prayer is if your destination is 22km from your city, but here in the book

 

411. The criterion for calculating the shar‘ī distance is the distance between the end of the city of departure and the beginning of the city of destination*; whether the city is large or not.

* i.e. from the last houses in the city of departure till the first houses of the city of destination.

 

So does this mean if i go to a city just bordering my own city, there would be no distance since there is no distance between the two? Even if the two cities are massive? Or am i misunderstanding something?

Or for my current scenario, i go to city C through city B from city A. The width of city B is only 10km, even though if we calculate from the border of city A to my destination inside city C, it would be 30km (my destination is deep inside city C, not in the border)

Thanks

 

Also i just realized that since city boundary can be changed by the government, if i am a president i can change the city border due to my travel need so i can pray shortened prayer everytime :P

Check with your Marja’ or a Shia scholar in your own town and ask him how does he determine it for himself.
 

From what I asked (do not take this as a ruling), I made the intention that the large city which is made up of hundred of towns and cities in one larger area is my city which spans 90 miles end to end on three major highways (for example Dallas Forthworth, or greater Houston, or greater London, or greater LA, or Toronto, all of these are bunch of small towns and cities called one city now). 
 

If I’m on the edge of either of this 90 miles long gulp of the city, and I drive 14 miles for a day trip, out towards the wilderness, I Qasr my salat. 
 

If I’m travelling the other way where I see houses and malls and every 10 miles later, the name of the small towns and cities change, I consider them as part of my larger city and don’t Qasr my salat till I reach the 90 miles up at the edge. 
 

If you wanna understand what I’m saying, take the map of any of these cities I mentioned and see what I’m suggesting. 
 

Again, end of the day, talk to a local ‘alim and ask him specifically what and how he does it. 

  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Botak said:

But the ruling book said the distance calculated is from the end of the starting ciry and the start of the destination city?

Salam 

Quote

According to the fatwa of the majority of Shiite jurists, one counts as a Shar'i traveler when he or she intends to travel eight parasangs from the very beginning of their travel. 

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Al-Qasr_Prayer

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Shar'i_distance

you can consider passing "Welcome to city" sign as sign of your city as end of starting city & the start of the destination city to next town's "welcome to city " sign ;anyway you can check it with ruling book of your Marja.

Quote

Custom Welcome Sign, Add Your City, SKU: K-3332 you can calculate distance between these two signs Custom Welcome Sign, Add Your City, SKU: K-3332

            Initiating travel from your city                                                                                            Entering to destination city

 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe
  • Veteran Member
Posted
On 1/22/2025 at 1:11 PM, Botak said:

But the ruling book said the distance calculated is from the end of the starting ciry and the start of the destination city?

:salam:

Yes according to the rule it is like there are only 10 kms between the actual two places. 

  • Advanced Member
Posted

If someone is in doubt whether he should shorten the prayers or not, then I believe he must read prayers both ways, short as well as full.

This can be difficult while traveling because you end up having to read even more than what you normally read while not traveling. I could be wrong though, can anyone confirm?

  • Advanced Member
Posted
1 hour ago, Maisam Haider said:

If someone is in doubt whether he should shorten the prayers or not, then I believe he must read prayers both ways, short as well as full.

This can be difficult while traveling because you end up having to read even more than what you normally read while not traveling. I could be wrong though, can anyone confirm?

424. If someone has doubts about the distance, if it is not difficult for him to investigate; like if he can look at the odometer or ask a few people, he should investigate according to obligatory caution, but then if he does not reach a result, his prayer is complete.

425. If the follower does not know the fatwā of his mujtahid, such as if he does not know whether his fatwā regarding the combined distance (see 413 to 415) is the same as the one-way distance or not, he must investigate the fatwā of his mujtahid, and if he cannot or does not want to investigate, one should follow the caution, i.e. to perform both full and shortened prayers.

426. A person who, due to doubts about the distance, is obligated to perform a four-rak‘ah prayer, if, contrary to his duty, he performs a shortened prayer, the prayer he said is not sufficient and he must repeat it in full form. Of course, if he realizes after the prayer that his duty indeed was to perform a shortened prayer, if he said it with the intention of closeness to Allah, it is sufficient and there is no need to repeat it.

  • Veteran Member
Posted
3 hours ago, Maisam Haider said:

If someone is in doubt whether he should shorten the prayers or not, then I believe he must read prayers both ways, short as well as full.

This can be difficult while traveling because you end up having to read even more than what you normally read while not traveling. I could be wrong though, can anyone confirm?

:salam:

When fiqh contradicts shari`a... 

  • Advanced Member
Posted
4 hours ago, realizm said:

:salam:

When fiqh contradicts shari`a... 

I wouldnt say contradict, more like losing the supposed "purpose" though who knows whats the real purpose in the first place.

  • Veteran Member
Posted
10 hours ago, Botak said:

I wouldnt say contradict, more like losing the supposed "purpose" though who knows whats the real purpose in the first place.

Precisely 'contradict' when shari`a of Allah is explicitely to remove hardship and when 'precaution fiqh' imposes hardship on us. 

  • Advanced Member
Posted
7 hours ago, realizm said:

Precisely 'contradict' when shari`a of Allah is explicitely to remove hardship and when 'precaution fiqh' imposes hardship on us. 

Hey it is what it is, already taqlid :/

  • Advanced Member
Posted
On 1/25/2025 at 2:06 AM, realizm said:

Yes according to the rule it is like there are only 10 kms between the actual two places. 

Salam two places in this case will be considered as one place . 

  • Advanced Member
Posted

Salam alaykum

 

The great scholar Muhammad b. Mansur al-Muradi رح, who lived in the 2nd and 3rd centuries, said that everyone he saw from the learned of the progeny ع in his time held to shortening in travel and strongly disliked performing it in full

 

imam Muhammad al-Baqir ع and imam al-Hasan b. Yahya ع (a Husaynid jurist, a contemporary of imam Muhammad b. 'Ali al-Jawad ع and imam 'Ali b. Muhammad al-Naqi ع) provide an interesting argument:

they say the original default was two rak'as except maghrib, and when the Qibla changed, Allah increased it for some salats when in residence, so in travel those salats remained on (or were returned to) their original default.

This legal argument is repeated by the Hasanid Imam al-Hadi ilal-Haqq Yahya b. Husayn ع.

*

There is a principle: a previous Certainty is not removed by an emerging Doubt

If you are in your residence and leaving for travel, assume you are in residence until you are sure that you are no longer in residence. 

And if you are coming back from travel towards your residence, assume you are in travel until you are sure that you are in residence.

 

Allah knows best.

 

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...