Is death and Rizq predestined?

[iraqi_shia]

We know death is predestined, but is it fixed in a style similar to the films "final destination"?

In that for example someone maybe born, and Allah has decided that at age 36 they are to die, no matter what.

I know in the Quran, we have :

 

3|145|No soul can die except by God’s leave, at a predetermined time. Whoever desires the reward of the world, We will give him some of it; and whoever desires the reward of the Hereafter, We will give him some of it; and We will reward the appreciative.

However, this just doesn't sit right with me.

 

In the same way some say Rizq is predestined, as in no matter what we do, it will be a fixed amount. Again, this doesn't seem to fit in with other Islamic principles.

 

I have the feeling and I could be wrong, but it is more like that death in itself is certain, but the exact moment is as a consequence to our actions.

 

Does anyone have anything to share on this?

[Ashvazdanghe]

11 hours ago, iraqi_shia said:

We know death is predestined, but is it fixed in a style similar to the films "final destination"?

In that for example someone maybe born, and Allah has decided that at age 36 they are to die, no matter what.

Salam certainly it's not likewise the films "final destination" which there is a decided age of death but it can be become more  or less by our deeds which some good deed can increase age life which in similar fashion some sins can cause reducing it by will of Allah . 

11 hours ago, iraqi_shia said:

In the same way some say Rizq is predestined, as in no matter what we do, it will be a fixed amount. Again, this doesn't seem to fit in with other Islamic principles.

in similar fashion a Rizq is predestinated but it can be increased or decreased by our deeds also gaining rizq needs doing action which if you don't do any action for gaining it so then you will receive minimum amount of rizq which will be just enough fr surviving until predestinated age of death. 

[PureExistence1]

Salaam @Ashvazdanghe, can you share some books or links that describe which sins shorten life and rizq?

Jzk!

[iraqi_shia]

9 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam certainly it's not likewise the films "final destination" which there is a decided age of death but it can be become more  or less by our deeds which some good deed can increase age life which in similar fashion some sins can cause reducing it by will of Allah . 

in similar fashion a Rizq is predestinated but it can be increased or decreased by our deeds also gaining rizq needs doing action which if you don't do any action for gaining it so then you will receive minimum amount of rizq which will be just enough fr surviving until predestinated age of death. 

Thank you, i feel the same, however the evidence so far seems to suggest the opposite.

For example :

 

3|154|Then after the setback, He sent down security upon you. Slumber overcame some of you, while others cared only for themselves, thinking of God thoughts that were untrue—thoughts of ignorance—saying, “Is anything up to us?” Say, “Everything is up to God.” They conceal within themselves what they do not reveal to you. And they say, “If it was up to us, none of us would have been killed here.” Say, “Even if you Had stayed in your homes, those destined to be killed would have marched into their death beds.” God thus tests what is in your minds, and purifies what is in your hearts. God knows what the hearts contain.

[Borntowitnesstruth]

On 12/3/2024 at 11:24 PM, iraqi_shia said:

We know death is predestined, but is it fixed in a style similar to the films "final destination"?

In that for example someone maybe born, and Allah has decided that at age 36 they are to die, no matter what.

I know in the Quran, we have :

 

3|145|No soul can die except by God’s leave, at a predetermined time. Whoever desires the reward of the world, We will give him some of it; and whoever desires the reward of the Hereafter, We will give him some of it; and We will reward the appreciative.

However, this just doesn't sit right with me.

 

In the same way some say Rizq is predestined, as in no matter what we do, it will be a fixed amount. Again, this doesn't seem to fit in with other Islamic principles.

 

I have the feeling and I could be wrong, but it is more like that death in itself is certain, but the exact moment is as a consequence to our actions.

 

Does anyone have anything to share on this?

The rizq and death are consequences of actions for the effort you put in to obtain rizq and precautions you take for your long life. This, consequences are fixed for every action you take. If one don't want to earn more, one will have that much of rizq and if one don't take precautions for health, he will have short life.

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 12/4/2024 at 5:05 PM, PureExistence1 said:

Salaam @Ashvazdanghe, can you share some books or links that describe which sins shorten life and rizq?

Jzk!

A: Sins that change blessings

Muhammad ibn Ali ibn al-Hussein, from Ahmad ibn al-Hasan, to Abu Khalid Kabuli, who said: I heard Zayn al-Abidin Ali ibn al-Hussein ((عليه السلام).) says:

الذّنوب الّتی تغیّر النّعم:

I heard from Imam Zayn al-Abidin says: The sins that change blessings (there are four of them) are:

1.Injustice and oppression of people
 

Quote

البغی علی النّاس Al-Bagh'yy ʿala al-Nas; Injustice and oppression of people (changes blessings) Therefore, government and monarchy will last with disbelief, but it will not last with injustice and oppression. (3) Especially oppression against people who have no refuge except Allah,  the curse of oppressed takes with lightning speed and changes blessings. (4)

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-224-o-my-god-preserve-grace-my-face#alternative-sources-sermon-224

4. Al-Kafi , v 2 , p 331 , H 5

2. Abandoning (Breaking) a good habit

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Losing the habit of doing good deeds. Sometimes a person has good habits, such as spending money on Imam Hussein (عليه السلام), helping the poor, the habit of reading the Quran and praying at night. Leaving these good habits, which are not easily acquired, takes away or changes the blessings from a person.

3. Abandoning choosing the right

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 واصطناع المعروف؛ ; Losing the choose  to do what is right (and known to reason and the law). It may be that the intention is to abandon the habit of choosing what is right and doing what is known to reason and the law. Perhaps the intention is not to command what is right and not to do it oneself.

4. Denial of blessings
 

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وکفران النّعم؛; Denial of blessings. Allah has given us countless blessings, from the blessings of prophethood and Imamate to ordinary and common blessings such as health, intelligence, various kinds of food and clothing. Denial of these blessings will also lead to a change in the blessing or its decline.

5 Not being grateful for blessings

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وترک الشّکر; abandoning gratitude (for blessings).

The best gratitude is for a person to use blessings in it's own way,(5) and abandoning it is to use in in a way other than the right way, for example, using youth in the path of sin and corruption, wealth in the path of forbidden things, amusement and play, etc.

Hazrat Sajjad continued by citing the verse of the Quran:

Quote

قال اللّه تعالی انّ اللّه لایغیّر ما بقومٍ حتّی یغیّروا ما بانفسهم؛(6) 

Indeed Allah does not change a people’s lot, unless they change what is in their souls.

https://tanzil.net/#trans/en.qarai/13:11

Allah does not change His blessings unless people change themselves (due to unhealthy actions, behavior, and thoughts).(7)

 

D: Sins that change livelihood and fate
It is true that livelihood is divided and effort and try play a major role in obtaining it, but some sins also make effort and try ineffective and cause a person's share of livelihood to be reduced. Those sins are:1. Declaring poverty

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اظهار الفقر; showing oneself poor

With all the shortcomings, it must be accepted that during the thirty years of the revolution, many changes have been made in people's lives and most people's conditions have improved. However, unfortunately, the habit and custom is that some people always want to show themselves poor and needy, and they are never willing to mention the blessings of Allah. The effect of such a display of poverty is the reduction of sustenance and livelihood.

 

2. Not praying the Isha prayer
 

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والنّوم عن العتمة And sleeping without praying the Isha prayer
In general, neglecting prayer is a factor in the lack of blessings and the decrease in sustenance. Among the prayers, leaving the Isha and Fajr prayers plays a greater role in the decrease in sustenance and lack of blessings. Regarding the Fajr prayer and making it up, he said:  و عن صلاة الغداة؛ ; Sleeping after the Fajr prayer

Complaint

3. Despising blessings

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واستحقار النعم؛  belittling the blessings of Allah

Each and every blessing of Allah plays a vital role for man. Consider this air, which many do not consider as part of Allah's blessings at all. When they pollute it, they understand its value, and similarly, health and...

Despising blessings takes blessings away from man.

4. Complaining about Allah

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Instead of worshipping Allah (seeking refuge in Allah), some servants want to teach God to be the god, and we tell Him that if He had done so and so, it would have been better. And whenever we open our mouths to complain and Complaint, and we should pay attention to the fact that Allah is Almighty, Knowing and Wise, His giving is out of wisdom, and His not giving is out of wisdom. The harm of complaining about Allah is felt by the person complaining, and his sustenance and livelihood will be reduced. Imam Sajjad (عليه السلام) said: And complaining about the Almighty Allah; And complaining about your beloved and glorious Allah (who reduces man's sustenance)

 

H: Sins that shorten life Some sins are the cause of shortening the life of humans  والذّنوب الّتی تعجّل الفناء, as the Imam (peace be upon him) says in this regard: And the sins that hasten death are six sins.

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1. Cutting off ties with relatives  قطیعة الرّحم؛

2. Unrighteous oaths والیمین الفاجرة؛

3. False words (and lying)  والاقوال الکاذبة؛

4. Adultery       والزّنا؛            

5. Blocking the path of Muslims ( interception...)  و سدّ طریق المسلمین؛

6. Claiming leadership without right  6 وادعاء الامامة بغیر حقّ؛

Claiming Imamate without right shortens life.

Wasa'il al-Shia  , v 11 , p519 , H 8

Wasa'il al-Shia  , v 11 , p 520

https://erfan.ir/farsi/88372.html

Chapter 9: The Research about Longevity

https://www.al-islam.org/al-imam-al-mahdi-just-leader-humanity-ibrahim-amini/chapter-9-research-about-longevity

https://www.al-islam.org/message-thaqalayn/vol-13-no-3-autumn-2012/prolonged-lifespan-imam-mahdi-aj-zainab-musawi/prolonged

Longevity

https://www.shiavault.com/books/discussion-on-imam-e-zaman/chapters/14-longevity/

Duas for Rizq- Sustenance

https://www.duas.org/mobile/rizq-duas.html

 

 

Edited December 8, 2024 by Ashvazdanghe

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 12/4/2024 at 7:17 PM, iraqi_shia said:

Thank you, i feel the same, however the evidence so far seems to suggest the opposite.

For example :

 

3|154|Then after the setback, He sent down security upon you. Slumber overcame some of you, while others cared only for themselves, thinking of God thoughts that were untrue—thoughts of ignorance—saying, “Is anything up to us?” Say, “Everything is up to God.” They conceal within themselves what they do not reveal to you. And they say, “If it was up to us, none of us would have been killed here.” Say, “Even if you Had stayed in your homes, those destined to be killed would have marched into their death beds.” God thus tests what is in your minds, and purifies what is in your hearts. God knows what the hearts contain.

Salam it's not opposite which this mostly suggests quality of death which can be martyrdom in Jihad or normal death in bed which hypocrites considers martyrdom as wasting of life while they think that can enjoy worldly life  without hardship of Jihad by staying in house so then dye in their beds in exchange of accepting misery & humiliation  of living under command of tyrants by abandoning Jihad even encouraging others to put their heads under sand in similar fashion of them . 

Edited December 8, 2024 by Ashvazdanghe

[iraqi_shia]

thank you for your comments. I found some other similar comments supporting the view that the length of life is not fixed.

 

24. Muhammad ibn Ibrahim ibn Ahmad ibn Yunus al-Laythi said: Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Sa`id al-Hamdani freed slave of the Hashimites said: al-Harith ibn Abu Usamah reported to us in reading, on the authority of al-Mada’ini, on the authority of all three `Uwanah ibn al-Hakm; `Abd Allah ibn al-`Abbas ibn Sahl al-Sa`idi and Abu Bakr al-Khurasani freed slave of the Hashimites, on the authority of al-Harith ibn Hasirah, on the authority of `Abd al-Rahman ibn Jundab, on the authority of his father and others that The people came to al-Hasan ibn `Ali (عليه السلام) after the death of `Ali (عليه السلام) to pay allegiance to him. So he (عليه السلام) said: All praise is for Allah over what He destined in matter, specified in merit, generalized in affair and glorified in well-being, a praise with which He completes over us His bounties and we require His pleasure. Verily, this world is an abode of tribulation and mischief. Everything that is initiated has a decline. Allah has informed us of that so that we may take a lesson. Therefore He preceded with a threat to us so that there is no evidence for us after warning. So be ascetic in what is to perish and desirous in what is to remain. Fear Allah in privacy and in open. Verily, `Ali (عليه السلام) in life, death and the rising lived with a measure and died with the time. Verily, I shall accept your allegiance on that you will make peace with whom I make peace with and fight with whom I fight with.Thus, they all paid allegiance to him on that basis. Muhammad ibn `Ali ibn al-Husayn, the Compiler of this book says: The ajal is the death of a human and the time of his death. And the ajal of his living is the time of his living. That is the meaning of the word of Allah, the Mighty and High: So when their (appointed) time comes they shall not delay it even an hour, nor shall they go before. If a human dies a natural death on his bed or is killed then verily the ajal of his death is the time of his death. It is possible that if a murdered person was not killed, he would have died in that instance anyway. It is also possible that if he was not killed then he would have lived on. The knowledge of that is unseen for us. Allah, the Mighty and High, has said; Say: Had you remained in your houses, those for whom slaughter was ordained would certainly have gone forth to the places where they would be slain. He has also said: Say: Flight shall not do you any good if you fly from death or slaughter. If a group of people are killed at the same time, it is possible to say that all of them died at their time and even if they were not killed they would have died in that instance. For, it is possible that a disease would have occurred in all of them and would have killed them all in that instance. It is not possible to say that they all died without the time of their death. As a whole, the ajal of a person is the time of his death that Allah, the Mighty and High, knows that he will die in that hour or will be killed. The word of al-Hasan (عليه السلام) concerning his father (عليه السلام) that “he lived with a measure and died with the time? Is a confirmation of what we have said about this matter. Allah is the Granter of Direction to the correctness with His Favor.

Al-Tawḥīd, Predestination, Divine Decree, Trials, Means of Sustenance Rates, and Restricted Powers, Hadith #24

https://thaqalayn.net/hadith/14/2/60/24

 

 

4. It is narrated from Muhammad ibn Yahya from Ahmad ibn Muhammad from ibn Faddal from ibn Bukayr from Zurara from humran from abu Ja‘far ((عليه السلام).) who has said the following. “I asked the Imam about the words of Allah, “It is He who has created you from clay to live for a life-time and the span of your life is only known to Him. . .” (6:2) The Imam said, “There are two appointed times. One is is a definite time and the other is the conditional one.”

Al-Kāfi – Volume 1, Chapter on al-Bida’, Hadith #4

https://thaqalayn.net/hadith/1/3/24/4

6|2|It is He who created you from clay, then decided a term and a term determined by him. Yet you doubt.

I think this is the critical position. It seems there are 2 lifespans, one is known only to God, and the true knowledge, the actual and unchanging knowledge. The other time is the conditional one. The conditional one is constantly varying according to our behaviour