Syrian civil war is reignited.

[mahmood8726]

11 hours ago, Northwest said:

^ To further elaborate: I admit that the evidence on Israel’s relations with al-Jolani is contradictory. (Israel did align with HTS’s predecessor Jabhat al-Nusra throughout the conflict and also tacitly aided ISIS.) As soon as Israel signed the ceasefire with Lebanon last year, the Israeli leadership threatened Assad over Hezbollah and Iran. Simultaneously HTS and Co. began their offensive vs. the SAA. Just as HTS and Co. seized Damascus, a well-connected IDF veteran claimed that “senior” HTS officials promised normal relations with Israel, saying that HTS deserved Israeli support. Moreover, he claimed that Israeli embassies would be opened in both Damascus and Beirut (!)—suggesting that the outcome in Syria was closely linked to the campaigns vs. the broader “Axis of Resistance” in the MENA. Moreover, HTS is now purchasing oil and gas from the Kurdish SDF, a key U.S./Israel/NATO proxy, as part of a broader agreement that includes pro-Israel Druze figures. So those claims about HTS covertly backing Hamas and/or the PIJ could well be more Israeli smoke and mirrors, like the articles linking Hamas to ISIS years ago. But clearly neither Russia nor Iran seemed to have much more interest than Assad himself in resisting the final U.S./Israel/NATO (including Turkey)/GCC regime-change offensive by HTS and Co. in late 2024.

HTS aligned with hamas and especially PIJ? No, HTS even told Palestinian factions to disarm if you remeber, HTS stated clearly that they were not going to allow Syria to become a "launching pad" against Israel, their language on being non violent with israel was 100% clear. 

 

This is especially the case with PIJ, I'm pretty sure they're fully aligned with Iran, unlike hamas who is half and half with Iran and Qatar. So I honestly wouldn't take such celebrations from the Qatari/turkish alligned side of hamas seriously. 

 

 

As for Iran and Russia, they tried, but the Syrian Government under Bashar, had their delusional "strategic patience" mentality that cost them their country, they supplied hezb, they allowed millitants to fire at American bases from Syria in retaliation for support for israel, their AD blew up near israels nuclear site in dimona and im pretty sure they had allowed(although limited it) millitants to fire at Golan heights from southern syria, but all of this was not enough and Bashar being alligned with GCC who told him to distance himself from Iran and hezb which lead to him not allowing a Golan front, did not help at all. They can't help Syria when Syria doesn't want to help itself. 

Edited March 12 by mahmood8726

[mahmood8726]

13 hours ago, Northwest said:

Furthermore, Israeli and U.S. officials have recently criticised HTS for targeting minorities such as Alawites. Even Russian media such as TASS have reported that the Alawites are seeking Israeli military protection vs. HTS. Importantly, the U.S., unlike the EU, has not yet lifted sanctions on Syria, suggesting that it opposes al-Jolani and his allies. If all this is the case, then why did Hezbollah claim that the march of HTS and Co. was coordinated with Israel or was part of an Israeli strategy? All along Israel has seemed rather hostile to HTS in public.

Israel putting HTS in power and coordinating attacks with HTS against bashar is true. They did this because they wanted to put a sectarian thug in power, so they can justify balkanizing Syria into an alawite, druze, sunni, etc... state, so they can come as the "saviours". Joulani being passive towards Israel and going full barbarian on alawites furthers suspicions that he's their tool to destabilize Syria, as in, he's another eli cohen. The guy gets invaded and gives the most pathetic madkhali excuse on rebuilding and peace, but the moment some alawites rebel, he suddenly has energy to fight and you see his massive convoys invading.

Wether Israel helped HTS to get in power only to then backstab them, or Israel is secretly cuddly with HTS leadership(which is becoming more and more evident, the more HTS does nothing) is yet to be known. 

 

 

13 hours ago, Northwest said:

If al-Jolani were an American and/or Israeli client, why haven’t the U.S. and Israel attempted to lift Syria sanctions?

No idea what america is planning. They probably want to carve Syria into multiple mini states and joulani seems to be the guy that will help them achieve this. 

13 hours ago, Northwest said:

Moreover, why did Israel hesitate to intervene more directly in Syria before HTS took over, if Assad was so uniformly hostile to Israel? Moreover, how will Hezbollah and/or Iran address the fact that the Alawites, especially after the recent massacres, apparently view Israel as preferable to a Takfiri Sunni Islamist regime, while opposing Hamas as well? (Kurds and Druze are also alleged to be seeking Israeli aid for this purpose.)

Because Bashar was allied with Iran and Russia, invading Syria when russian outposts were close to the Golan heights would have been stupid.

https://tass.com/politics/1768905

Russia specifically set up these posts in response to Israeli incursions into Syria and their kidnapping of random civilians. 

Unlike HTS where turkey negotiated with Iran and talked them out of intervening in Syria, Israel wasn't going to negotiate with Iran. 

 

What's the solution as Israel? Coordinate and attack on Syria with Ukraine, France, America, turkey, help HTS invade Syria and destroy Syria themselves to make the russians retreat and Syria without allies ready to intervene against Israel.

Edited March 12 by mahmood8726

[mahmood8726]

@Northwestthere is also the news of sdf and hts becoming one country again and signing a deal, which i dont know what to make of it. Everything indicated that israel was trying to carve syria up into ministates, but now sdf just united with syria. Well see what happens in a few months, i doubt the coast and south of syria will hold though, they might become mini states and iran and iraqi intel have warned that israel will attempt a major push in southern syria in these comming days. 

 

Although there is claims the kurds might still keep autonomy. 

Edited March 12 by mahmood8726

[AbdusSibtayn]

19 hours ago, Northwest said:

@mahmood8726 @AbdusSibtayn @Abu Hadi @StrangerInThisWorld Does anyone know about the relationship, if any, between HTS and Hamas and/or Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)? Israel is justifying its incursions in Syria by reporting that HTS and Co. released Hamas and PIJ prisoners upon taking power in Damascus. (Assad supposedly kept them in prison to prevent Israeli retaliation.) While all this could be Israeli propaganda, both Hamas and PIJ either passively condoned or openly celebrated the ouster of Assad by HTS.

Furthermore, Israeli and U.S. officials have recently criticised HTS for targeting minorities such as Alawites. Even Russian media such as TASS have reported that the Alawites are seeking Israeli military protection vs. HTS. Importantly, the U.S., unlike the EU, has not yet lifted sanctions on Syria, suggesting that it opposes al-Jolani and his allies. If all this is the case, then why did Hezbollah claim that the march of HTS and Co. was coordinated with Israel or was part of an Israeli strategy? All along Israel has seemed rather hostile to HTS in public.

If al-Jolani were an American and/or Israeli client, why haven’t the U.S. and Israel attempted to lift Syria sanctions? Moreover, why did Israel hesitate to intervene more directly in Syria before HTS took over, if Assad was so uniformly hostile to Israel? Moreover, how will Hezbollah and/or Iran address the fact that the Alawites, especially after the recent massacres, apparently view Israel as preferable to a Takfiri Sunni Islamist regime, while opposing Hamas as well? (Kurds and Druze are also alleged to be seeking Israeli aid for this purpose.)

I haven't read much in this regard, but Hamas is not a monolith, at least no longer one. There is the Qatari and the Turkish branch, mostly the political/diplomatic wing which views the rebel camp favourably and may have sympathies towards the HTS. Then there is the military wing, the al-Qassam brigades mostly, based in Gaza and led by people like Sinwar (rh) who were opposed to the dirty war in Syria. 

Palestinian Islamic Jihad has been loyal to Iran and Hezbollah forever, and they refused to join the insurgency from the very beginning. 

Who are these Alawites seeking Israeli assistance? That needs to be investigated too. Alawites are not a monolith as well. 

And what has HTS's public attitude towards Israel been, other than that of servile flattery, that too when about 1/3 of Syria is under their occupation? We need not be fooled by Israel's public posturing against HTS. They don't need HTS now, and they have thrown them aside like a used napkin. 

For the rest I second @Ashvazdanghe

[AbdusSibtayn]

Why in the world are these pathogens even allowed inside the shrine cities? 

Why are we tolerating these (EDITED OUT) sons of (EDITED OUT) making our shrines najis? 

The Iraqi authorities should kick out this filth at least from the atabat and deport them to where they came from. 

[AbdusSibtayn]

The know-it-all wannabes who are meme/tabloid/weblink/blog educated and oversimplify this genocidal mentality as 'iT's oNLy tHe SaLaFiS oUr bRoZzErs LuRrrrrrV uSssS!' need to log off the internet and return to open their mouths only when they have touched grass and smelt some coffee. The one who still denies this, knows zilch about the history of Shia persecution and needs to get toilet trained before anything else. The Wahhabis are a VERY recent phenomenon; these guys have been at it, and still are at it for centuries. 

The venom is spread across all their groups and subgroups. Yank your brains out of the orientalist/Western academic 'tolerant' Sufi and 'intolerant' Wahhabi binary, and pick up a book. 

One of the most virulently anti- Shia genocidal ogres whom I saw was a self-professed 'Shafi'i Ash'ari'. 

They hate us all the same. Their internal divisions don't matter when we are the 'other'. Stop deluding yourselves. 

 

[mahmood8726]

2 hours ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

Who are these Alawites seeking Israeli assistance? That needs to be investigated too. Alawites are not a monolith as well. 

Some disgusting accounts on the internet such as "the alawite defence league", leaving stupid tweets on how Israel should help them and now he's leaving tweets insulting Iran, hezb and Russia for apparently abandoning them and not saving them and some tweets about wanting an alawite orthodox christian state with the balkans????

I knew the guy was all over the place, even when he was "pro" Iranian and "pro" hezb during the Civil war and posted videos that one would think were made by a 16 year old. 

Edited March 12 by mahmood8726

[Northwest]

10 hours ago, mahmood8726 said:

@Northwestthere is also the news of sdf and hts becoming one country again and signing a deal, which i dont know what to make of it. Everything indicated that israel was trying to carve syria up into ministates, but now sdf just united with syria. Well see what happens in a few months, i doubt the coast and south of syria will hold though, they might become mini states and iran and iraqi intel have warned that israel will attempt a major push in southern syria in these comming days.

Although there is claims the kurds might still keep autonomy. 

@mahmood8726 At this stage I suspect that the collective West (including Israel), Turkey, and the GCC have achieved most of their regional aims. The campaign against the “Axis of Resistance” was always tied in part to the Abraham Accords and economic integration. Neither the West nor Israel attempts to undermine the GCC or Turkey, territorially or otherwise. Now that the “Resistance” has been weakened, the players are willing to accept a more centralised post-Assad regime under HTS, hence the moves toward reintegration by the Kurds (SDF) and Druze. (After all, they have managed to accept the KSA and the Taliban’s “emirate” in Afghanistan.) Ultimately I think the “powers that be” are pragmatic, so long as their goals are attained. Sometimes fragmentation is seen as necessary, but not always.

[StrangerInThisWorld]

On 3/11/2025 at 7:43 PM, Northwest said:

@mahmood8726 @AbdusSibtayn @Abu Hadi @StrangerInThisWorld Does anyone know about the relationship, if any, between HTS and Hamas and/or Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)? Israel is justifying its incursions in Syria by reporting that HTS and Co. released Hamas and PIJ prisoners upon taking power in Damascus. (Assad supposedly kept them in prison to prevent Israeli retaliation.) While all this could be Israeli propaganda, both Hamas and PIJ either passively condoned or openly celebrated the ouster of Assad by HTS.

Furthermore, Israeli and U.S. officials have recently criticised HTS for targeting minorities such as Alawites. Even Russian media such as TASS have reported that the Alawites are seeking Israeli military protection vs. HTS. Importantly, the U.S., unlike the EU, has not yet lifted sanctions on Syria, suggesting that it opposes al-Jolani and his allies. If all this is the case, then why did Hezbollah claim that the march of HTS and Co. was coordinated with Israel or was part of an Israeli strategy? All along Israel has seemed rather hostile to HTS in public.

If al-Jolani were an American and/or Israeli client, why haven’t the U.S. and Israel attempted to lift Syria sanctions? Moreover, why did Israel hesitate to intervene more directly in Syria before HTS took over, if Assad was so uniformly hostile to Israel? Moreover, how will Hezbollah and/or Iran address the fact that the Alawites, especially after the recent massacres, apparently view Israel as preferable to a Takfiri Sunni Islamist regime, while opposing Hamas as well? (Kurds and Druze are also alleged to be seeking Israeli aid for this purpose.)

I basically agree with what the brother @mahmood8726 stated. HTS are simply useful idiots in the hands of foreign powers. 

There is however one danger, which in the long run could lead to balkanization of Syria (which as others have stated is a major goal of the Sahayina) in a much more effective way and that are nationalist Kurds, because they're ready to sell their souls to the devil to achieve their nationalist dreams (as already seen in a neighboring country). 

I don't think their agreement with HTS will last. 

 

Edited March 12 by StrangerInThisWorld

[mahmood8726]

1 hour ago, Northwest said:

@mahmood8726 At this stage I suspect that the collective West (including Israel), Turkey, and the GCC have achieved most of their regional aims. The campaign against the “Axis of Resistance” was always tied in part to the Abraham Accords and economic integration. Neither the West nor Israel attempts to undermine the GCC or Turkey, territorially or otherwise. Now that the “Resistance” has been weakened, the players are willing to accept a more centralised post-Assad regime under HTS, hence the moves toward reintegration by the Kurds (SDF) and Druze. (After all, they have managed to accept the KSA and the Taliban’s “emirate” in Afghanistan.) Ultimately I think the “powers that be” are pragmatic, so long as their goals are attained. Sometimes fragmentation is seen as necessary, but not always.

Too early to tell, kurds behave like mercenaries, I doubt the agreement will last.

[StrangerInThisWorld]

4 hours ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

The know-it-all wannabes who are meme/tabloid/weblink/blog educated and oversimplify this genocidal mentality as 'iT's oNLy tHe SaLaFiS oUr bRoZzErs LuRrrrrrV uSssS!' need to log off the internet and return to open their mouths only when they have touched grass and smelt some coffee. The one who still denies this, knows zilch about the history of Shia persecution and needs to get toilet trained before anything else. The Wahhabis are a VERY recent phenomenon; these guys have been at it, and still are at it for centuries. 

The venom is spread across all their groups and subgroups. Yank your brains out of the orientalist/Western academic 'tolerant' Sufi and 'intolerant' Wahhabi binary, and pick up a book. 

One of the most virulently anti- Shia genocidal ogres whom I saw was a self-professed 'Shafi'i Ash'ari'. 

They hate us all the same. Their internal divisions don't matter when we are the 'other'. Stop deluding yourselves. 

 

Sorry brother, but I can't fully agree with you here. 

It's true that neither Sunnis nor Shi'a viewed or view each other as friends or the like, but the idea of genociding the other side is pretty much exclusive to "Salafis" (read: Najdis). 

Mentioning history doesn't really help here, because in that case the issue goes both ways. An example: If it's said that there was intolerance of the 'Uthmani state towards Shi'a, then the same can be said regarding the Safawi state towards the Sunnis. The issue however was in both cases much more connected to politics. 

I can tell you from my personal experience that Ash'aris for example and their Mashayikh will usually be far away from being genocidal, while I can not say the same regarding "Salafis" (especially not those who want to be like original Najdis). Some exceptions here or there doesn't refute this point, because you will find the same among Shi'a. 

And don't forget one thing here: Many Sunnis today have been influenced by "Salafi" ideas without even realizing. An example: The accusation of Shirk against Shi'a is a common one today and its origin is purely a Najdi one (and this accusation was originally against both Sunnis and Shi'a). 

Edited March 12 by StrangerInThisWorld

[mahmood8726]

13 hours ago, Northwest said:

@mahmood8726 At this stage I suspect that the collective West (including Israel), Turkey, and the GCC have achieved most of their regional aims. The campaign against the “Axis of Resistance” was always tied in part to the Abraham Accords and economic integration. Neither the West nor Israel attempts to undermine the GCC or Turkey, territorially or otherwise. Now that the “Resistance” has been weakened, the players are willing to accept a more centralised post-Assad regime under HTS, hence the moves toward reintegration by the Kurds (SDF) and Druze. (After all, they have managed to accept the KSA and the Taliban’s “emirate” in Afghanistan.) Ultimately I think the “powers that be” are pragmatic, so long as their goals are attained. Sometimes fragmentation is seen as necessary, but not always.

Interestingly one of the commanders of the houthis, seems to be sharing kevork almassian's opinion, which is that Israel is planning to balkanize syria:

 

Ansarallah commander Sayyed Abdlumalik Badreddine Al-Houthi addressing the latest developments in Syria:
—
The crimes committed by takfiri groups in Syria are condemned and must be denounced by everyone. Anyone with a conscience should work to stop these atrocities.

What is happening in Syria reveals the insistence of the takfiri groups to continue on their brutal criminal path, killing innocent people in the most horrific forms of killing and genocide.

The takfiri groups in Syria share responsibility for these crimes with their sponsors, who support them with money, political backing, and military aid.

The consequences of the crimes in Syria will be bad for the takfiris and their supporters, as they believe they have secured themselves with America and Europe, who thus give them free rein to do whatever they want.

The takfiri groups in Syria are committing acts of genocide against hundreds of peaceful, unarmed Syrian civilians.

The takfiri groups in Syria document their crimes on video, publish them on social media platforms, and boast about them with all brutality and criminality.

The takfiris in Syria provide a great service to the "israeli" enemy and the Americans by tearing apart the Syrian social fabric.

What the Americans and "israelis" seek is to present themselves as the saviors and protectors of the Syrian people.

"israel" has announced its protection of the Druze in Sweida, and because it has declared this, the takfiri groups have not dared to harm them; rather, they respect them.

The takfiris have an understanding with the Druze in Sweida because "israel" has announced its protection of them and has threatened retaliation if they are harmed.

The Americans present themselves as protectors of the Kurds in the areas where they are, arming and recruiting them.

The rest of the Syrian people see themselves as targeted because they are not under American protection like the Kurds, nor under "israeli" protection like the Druze.

The rest of the Syrian people see themselves as violated and are killed in cold blood and with ease, and there is not even anyone in the Arab or Muslim world who objects or criticizes it.

The brutality and criminality of the takfiri groups are an American-"israeli"-zionist-Jewish engineering—they are the ones who spawned them, created them, and prepared them for this role.

The takfiris serve Jewish zionist goals in distorting Islam.

The takfiri groups present themselves as religious and jihadist groups, yet they act with all brutality and criminality, killing innocent, peaceful people and tearing societies apart from within.

The takfiri groups portray the enemies as protectors and saviors in order to justify accepting their occupation.

Since gaining control over Syria, the takfiri groups have not fired a single bullet at the "israeli" enemy, despite its invasion of southern Syria.

The takfiris in Syria have issued directives to their media outlets and media activists not to use the word "enemy" when describing the "israeli" enemy.

What is happening in Syria is very unfortunate, and Arabs and Muslims remain silent so that the Americans, Europeans, and "israel" can present themselves as protectors of the peoples.

What is happening in Syria is a great lesson for all the peoples of our nation about the truth of these groups and their crimes.

The takfiri groups are not mujahideen; if they were, they would have confronted the Israeli enemy. They are not religious, but rather criminals practicing falsehood.

The aggression of the takfiri groups in Syria is clear, and whoever doubts or questions our words should watch for themselves the crimes these groups have documented.

Despite the fact that the regional sponsors of the takfiris try to present them in their media as security forces and an army, the truth is clear.

What is happening in Syria these days is horrific, and remaining silent about it is a crime that contradicts religious and humanitarian responsibilities.

Edited March 13 by mahmood8726

[Eddie Mecca]

17 hours ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

The Wahhabis are a VERY recent phenomenon; these guys have been at it, and still are at it for centuries. 

You seem to be echoing the sentiments of Ted Cruz and Mitch McConnell a lot lately....Ted Cruz has suggested that “Sunnis and Shiites have been engaged in a sectarian civil war since 632, it is the height of hubris and ignorance to make American national security contingent on the resolution of a 1,500-year-old religious conflict.”...Mitch McConnell has observed that what is taking place in the Arab world is “a religious conflict that has been going on for a millennium and a half.” 

[Eddie Mecca]

14 hours ago, StrangerInThisWorld said:

the 'Uthmani state

The Ottoman Sultanate, while primarily adhering to Ash'ari Sufism, and Hanafism, demonstrated a widespread phenomenon of cultural "Ahl al-Baytism"...meaning they emphasized an enthusiastic love and reverence for the family of the Prophet Muhammad...this included the twelve Imams of Shi'i Islam...this suggests that the Ottoman state wasn't a monolithic, rigid, overbearing manifestation of Sunni Islam...but rather a complicated tradition fused with richness, diversity and sometimes contradictory dimensions and elements

Edited March 13 by Eddie Mecca

[mahmood8726]

1 hour ago, Eddie Mecca said:

You seem to be echoing the sentiments of Ted Cruz and Mitch McConnell a lot lately....Ted Cruz has suggested that “Sunnis and Shiites have been engaged in a sectarian civil war since 632, it is the height of hubris and ignorance to make American national security contingent on the resolution of a 1,500-year-old religious conflict.”...Mitch McConnell has observed that what is taking place in the Arab world is “a religious conflict that has been going on for a millennium and a half.” 

Sunni and shia relations for the past 1400 years can't be simplified, that's the truth.

 

@AbdusSibtayn this is why i advise you to please not fall for this kind of rethoric, a lot of sunnis today have been brainwashed by salafis, but by no means did most sunnis hate shias with a passion for 1400 years. 

 

I know the zionist behaviour of salafis in Syria is making you hate sunnis as a whole, which is understandable, but please take a step back and don't let these psyops on the internet get to you. 

[AbdusSibtayn]

17 hours ago, StrangerInThisWorld said:

Mentioning history doesn't really help here, because in that case the issue goes both ways. An example: If it's said that there was intolerance of the 'Uthmani state towards Shi'a, then the same can be said regarding the Safawi state towards the Sunnis. The issue however was in both cases much more connected to politics. 

Sorry brother, but I feel this is an attempt to whitewash history. Mentioning history is the whole point here, and the point is that a desire to exterminate the Shia exists from long before wahhabism. 

The issue is not just 'intolerance' here, but genocide. And equating instances of fanaticism from the Safavids and Ottomans is false equivalence. Can you please show me a Safavid equivalent of Anatolia, Telal (Aleppo) or the Great Karbala Massacre? Can you please show me Safavid era Shii literature which says that spilling the blood of the mukhalifeen is an act of thawab? 

And this is continuing since long before the Shia were a political threat or organized into a state power. 

My contention us exactly that- the roots of this genocidal mentality go centuries back in history, and in many cases the people who incited this violence were those who call themselves 'Sufis'. 

People can deny this but that doesn't alter recorded history. 

Edited March 13 by AbdusSibtayn

[AbdusSibtayn]

3 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

You seem to be echoing the sentiments of Ted Cruz and Mitch McConnell a lot lately....Ted Cruz has suggested that “Sunnis and Shiites have been engaged in a sectarian civil war since 632, it is the height of hubris and ignorance to make American national security contingent on the resolution of a 1,500-year-old religious conflict.”...Mitch McConnell has observed that what is taking place in the Arab world is “a religious conflict that has been going on for a millennium and a half.” 

I have been 'echoing the sentiments' of August 'Sufi' figures like al-Ghazali, the Seljuk sultans, Imad ad-Din Zengi, Asad ad-Din Simkuh, Salah ad-Din Ayyubi, Selim I ('the Grim') Ahmad Sirhindi Naqshbandi, Shah Waliullah Dihalwi and Sayyid Ahmad 'Shaheed'. 

 

[AbdusSibtayn]

2 hours ago, mahmood8726 said:

I know the zionist behaviour of salafis in Syria is making you hate sunnis as a whole,

I am not hatemongering against anyone here Akhi. 

I am merely pointing out the fact that genocidal hatred of the Shia is spread across their confessions and is not just a 'wahhabi' thing, nor is it a recent development. When it comes to fighting us, all their internal differences disappear. Using the Wahhabis as a convenient scapegoat is simply false and ahistorical since the venom runs much deeper. 

[AbdusSibtayn]

19 hours ago, mahmood8726 said:

Some disgusting accounts on the internet such as "the alawite defence league", leaving stupid tweets on how Israel should help them and now he's leaving tweets insulting Iran, hezb and Russia for apparently abandoning them and not saving them and some tweets about wanting an alawite orthodox christian state with the balkans????

I knew the guy was all over the place, even when he was "pro" Iranian and "pro" hezb during the Civil war and posted videos that one would think were made by a 16 year old. 

Many Assadist Alawites are butthurt because the Axis 'betrayed' their patron according to them.

I saw similar things on a Syrian Christian telegram channel too, just yesterday, mocking us Shia and demanding an Alawite Christian state, lol. Exactly whom are those Christian nationalists appealing to? Their American and European co-religionists who don't give a damn if their Zio-Salafi proxies level their shrines? To their Phalange counterparts in Lebanon, who are Israel and the West's attack dogs in the region? Lol. 

The only people to ever care for their survival have been the Shia, and throwing shade and taking potshots at us is not going to help their case. 

[mahmood8726]

4 hours ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

I am not hatemongering against anyone here Akhi. 

I am merely pointing out the fact that genocidal hatred of the Shia is spread across their confessions and is not just a 'wahhabi' thing, nor is it a recent development. When it comes to fighting us, all their internal differences disappear. Using the Wahhabis as a convenient scapegoat is simply false and ahistorical since the venom runs much deeper. 

No one accused simply the wahabbis of this, everyone here is fully aware that many sunnis have hated shias with a passion for stupid sectarian reasons throught history. Wahhabis happen to be the most cancerous and 90% of the contributors to this hate in modern times, because wahabbism is the zionism of Islam. 

 

But to simplify sunnis like this and claim that they all or majoritarly start putting their differences aside and hate us, is unrealistic, as I said, don't let these psyops get to you. When Israel was flattening our villages, most of the people who checked on us were sunnis and they were devastated when that event happened on 27 of September 2024. 

[mahmood8726]

23 hours ago, Northwest said:

@mahmood8726 At this stage I suspect that the collective West (including Israel), Turkey, and the GCC have achieved most of their regional aims. The campaign against the “Axis of Resistance” was always tied in part to the Abraham Accords and economic integration. Neither the West nor Israel attempts to undermine the GCC or Turkey, territorially or otherwise. Now that the “Resistance” has been weakened, the players are willing to accept a more centralised post-Assad regime under HTS, hence the moves toward reintegration by the Kurds (SDF) and Druze. (After all, they have managed to accept the KSA and the Taliban’s “emirate” in Afghanistan.) Ultimately I think the “powers that be” are pragmatic, so long as their goals are attained. Sometimes fragmentation is seen as necessary, but not always.

قسد: الدستور الذي وضعه الجولاني لا يمثل الاتفاق الذي وقع بين قسد والجولاني وهو غير شرعي.

 

Translation:

SDF: The constitution drafted by al-Julani does not represent the agreement signed between the SDF and al-Julani, and it is illegitimate.

 

 

 

This doesn't look good for that "agreement". 

[علوي]

9 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

the Ottoman state wasn't a monolithic, rigid, overbearing manifestation of Sunni Islam...but rather a complicated tradition fused with richness, diversity and sometimes contradictory dimensions and elements

...that loved slaughtering alawites

[Eddie Mecca]

@AbdusSibtayn, you wished Kemal Ataturk had force-fed the Ottomans Chicharrónes and you praised Ismail I and Abbas I who were responsible for persecuting and murdering tens of thousands of Sunnis, Jews and Christians...this unfortunate and dark history doesn't jibe well with the general spirit of tolerance and openness our school is renowned for...under Abbas I, 30,000 Georgian Christian prisoners were forced to become Muslim...seems like you don't mind a Muʿāwiyah or an al-Hajjaj as long as they happen to be on our side...under Ismail I, the public cursing of al-Rāshidūn caliphs (minus Imam Ali) was institutionalized and a royal proclamation stated that, "Whoever disobeys, he is to be beheaded."...according to historical estimates, as many as 20,000 Sunnis were put to death under his rule for refusing to forcefully convert...the tombs of Abbasid caliphs, the tomb of Abū Ḥanīfa, the shrine of Abdul Qādir al-Jīlānī were all blown to smithereens ISIS-style...Shāfiʿī qāḍīs, ʿulamāʾ, laymen etc. hightailed it the hell out of the country in order to escape persecution...likewise, the Ottomans committed similar atrocities...both the Ottoman Empire and Safavid dynasty had positive points and negative aspects to their respected reigns...as practicing Twelvers and as moral and ethical people, we should single out these breaches and travesties of Islamic history and learn from them in order to prevent succeeding repetition...not gloss over them or even worse, glorify and encourage future generations to mimick such behavior 

Edited March 14 by Eddie Mecca

[Eddie Mecca]

On 3/12/2025 at 11:34 AM, AbdusSibtayn said:

The one who still denies this, knows zilch about the history of Shia persecution

Ordinary, middle-of-the-road, Sunni Syrians are under tremendous pressure from HTS to support the narrative...if they dare to espouse pro-unity positions, heads will literally roll...their women will be ravaged, their lands will be plundered and usurped etc. etc.

Edited March 14 by Eddie Mecca

[Eddie Mecca]

@AbdusSibtayn, the general norm in MENA has been the celebration of diversity, ethnic inclusion and religious acceptance...this has been noted by both Eastern and Western scholars alike...you're supporting racist tropes and Orientalist sterotypes and Islamophobic depictions when you present your narrative...your explanation is an oversimplification of events both past and present...it's also eerily reminiscent of Western foreign policy initiatives to frame modern ME geopolitics in terms of an easily explainable 1,500 year sectarian or partisan rift (e.g. Barack Obama comments about conflicts going back “millennia” in the Middle East - a comment he was critiqued for in 2016...also, Donald Trump comments about ____hole countries and his speech to West Point graduates...he stated at West Point that it was not the duty of the US servicemen to solve “ancient conflicts in faraway lands.")

Edited March 14 by Eddie Mecca

[mahmood8726]

I have to agree with @Eddie Mecca here, although there is truth to sectarianism and religions playing a role in these conflicts in the middle east, I wont be as "naive" as richard medhurst on this, but this mentality of oversimplifying middle eastern conflicts to just "sunni vs shia", "jews vs muslims", "christians vs muslims" is a deliberate attempt by western press and western affiliated press in the Arab world to tell their readers to ignore what's happening because "it's these crazy Arabs again, they're can't seem to get along" or "can't these jews and muslims get along already ? Let's have Israel and palestine and all sing around a campfire", etc... 

 

I even have an example of this. In 2021, when hezb supporters were protesting some corrupt judge, some fascists from the lebanese forces party(which happens to be christian) decided to kill(snipe) 5 protestors and 1 woman in her house washing the dishes. This resulted in a clash with some hezb supporters getting backup and their Ak-47s after their peaceful protest got ambushed by these insane fascists. That clash happened until the lebanese army broke it up. 

 

You know what lebanese media affiliated who commonly push CIA tropes said? "There is a clash that is happening between Christians and shia muslims", they tried framing it as something religious, when it wasn't. 

 

This mentality where people oversimplify events in the middle east into something religious, is something people have to be careful about. Just because throught history the Ottomans had a lot of degenerate leaders, doesn't mean that you can start oversimplying sunni and shia dynamics into a simple "sunnis hate us, it's deep in their veins, they've been doing it for 1400 years". 

Edited March 14 by mahmood8726

[AbdusSibtayn]

12 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

you wished Kemal Ataturk had force-fed the Ottomans Chicharrónes and you praised Ismail I and Abbas I who were responsible for persecuting and murdering tens of thousands of Sunnis, Jews and Christians..

Yes and I stand by every word I said. And where exactly are we getting those 'tens of thousands' figures from? What methodology has been used to derive them? What are the sources? By this logic we may swallow the 'Assad killed 600 gorillion Sunnis' slop too. 

Also, if the scale of Safavid violence against the Sunnis/Christian/Jews was genocidal, that doesn't explain how Iran has a substantial Sunni population to this day. That doesn't explain why the Armenian Christians flourished in Safavid Iran and to this day feel safer there than anywhere in the Sunni world (the Safavids Shahs extended tolerance to them, while the Ottomans genocided them). That doesn't explain how for centuries Iran has one of the biggest Jewish diasporas. 

12 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

.under Abbas I, 30,000 Georgian Christian prisoners were forced to become Muslim...

And that is the standard protocol for treating harbi kafir prisoners of war in Islam, that is, unless their government chooses to negotiate their release in exchange for some ransom- servitude, death penalty or embracing Islam. These are the three choices available to them. So if this is someone's objection, their objection really isn't with Abbas, but the fiqh of warfare. 

12 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

seems like you don't mind a Muʿāwiyah or an al-Hajjaj as long as they happen to be on our side

We don't, and can't possibly have either of them on 'our side' because even the most fajir, fasiq sinful Shiite king who nonetheless professes the wilayah of Ahl al-Bayt (ams) is infinitely better than those accursed beings who hated, fought and killed the Ahl al-Bayt. This is a counterfactual non-sequitur. The former are sinful yet mu'mineen, the latter are nawasib who are in a state of war with Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and His Messenger (S) - 'إنّی سلم لمن سالمکم و حرب لمن حاربکم' . 

If someone likens and equates sinful yet mu'mineen kings to the worst enemies of the Ahl al-Bayt (ams), then they need to examine their iman foremost. 

If they say that the sinful yet believer kings who granted amnesty to the orphans of Aal Muhammad (S), renovated their shrines, honored and patronized the Sayyids and the Ulama and cultivated the madhhab of the Ahl al-Bayt (عليه السلام) are the same as the accursed Muawiyah, Yazid and Hajjaj who killed the children of Rasoolallah (S) and their followers, then there can be nothing more vile and disgusting than this. 

And for the record, I have - just as millions of my fellow Shia have too- condemned corrupt Shii rulers and politicians like Nuri al-Maliki, Nabih Berri, Hafez al-Assad, Bani Sadr, Muqtada's Mahdi Army thugs, the wayward undisciplined lumpen juveniles of the Hashd who targeted ordinary,innocent Sunnis and a host of such people publicly as well as privately.

Find me even a dozen Sunnis who are willing to condemn the crimes of Saddam, Aal Khalifa, or their rulers in the past; find me even a dozen who condemn Hatla or Camp Speicher or the disgusting sickening rapine and pillage of the minorities by their 'revolutionaries' in Syria and North Iraq, and then we'll talk about who doesn't mind Hajjajs, Yazids and Muawiyahs on their side. 

12 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

under Ismail I, the public cursing of al-Rāshidūn caliphs (minus Imam Ali) was institutionalized and a royal proclamation stated that, "Whoever disobeys, he is to be beheaded."...according to historical estimates, as many as 20,000 Sunnis were put to death under his rule for refusing to forcefully convert...the tombs of Abbasid caliphs, the tomb of Abū Ḥanīfa, the shrine of Abdul Qādir al-Jīlānī were all blown to smithereens ISIS-style...

I don't condone public cursing or insults of their first 3 because it contradicts  the teachings of the Imams (ams), nor do I condone desecration and destruction of places of worship, whether of other Muslim sects or of non-Muslims. But I am nonetheless sensitive to the context in which those excesses happened. The Safavid revolution was the Jacobin/Bolshevik moment of the 'Ajam Shia- the Iranic and Turanic ones who had been doubly discriminated for over a millennium as non-Sunnis and non-Arabs. The Safavid clan themselves were Musawi Sayyids who had been forced into taqiyyah for generations. I can understand that they would have used the foundation of the new empire to give went to their seething, suppressed rage of centuries, just as the Jacobins and Bolsheviks committed excesses against the remnants of the Ancien Regime and some Girondins/ remnants of Tsardom and the Kerensky Regime to give vent to their suppressed rage. It was the 'October 7' moment for those Shia, and I understand that they may have been swept away by raw emotions and committed excesses. Does that make what they did right? No. But does that mean I cannot gain a sympathetic understanding of what they did in a fit of rage? Also no. 

12 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

Shāfiʿī qāḍīs, ʿulamāʾ, laymen etc. hightailed it the hell out of the country in order to escape persecution..

The same Shafi'i clergy who had gleefully goaded their Seljuk/Ghurid/Ghaznavid overlords to wholesale massacre hapless shia with such fatawa as 'spilling the blood of the rafida is nobler than spilling wine' and 'the more rafida you kill, the more good deeds you gather for the judgement day'? Good. The Safavid Revolution would have been the Nuremberg Trials moment for those criminals. Just karma catching up. 

12 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

as practicing Twelvers and as moral and ethical people, we should single out these breaches and travesties of Islamic history and learn from them in order to prevent succeeding repetition...not gloss over them or even worse, glorify and encourage future generations to mimick such behavior 

I agree that we should call out the lapses of rulers, past and present, because in our theology the 'sultan is the shadow of Allah on earth' and 'obey the king even if he loots your wealth, violates your women and rips the hide off your back' baloney holds no water. But we shouldn't draw false equivalences either. 

12 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

Ordinary, middle-of-the-road, Sunni Syrians are under tremendous pressure from HTS to support the narrative...if they dare to espouse pro-unity positions, heads will literally roll...their women will be ravaged, their lands will be plundered and usurped etc. etc.

All those festivities don't look like coerced support to me, but even if we accept this argument, what excuse do those kebab and shawarma peddling squatters in Germany and the rest of Europe who go on stabbing sprees every other fortnight have? What excuse do those vile diasporoid and r*pe-fugee squatters who were exchanging sweets and greetings on the killings of President Raisi (rh) and Sayyid Nasrallah (rh) have? What excuse do those scum based in the West who are gloating over the carnage in the coastal areas of Syria on their Reddit and Telegram groups have? What excuse did that (EDITED OUT) son of (EDITED OUT) who held up the photo of that genocidal chanting singer have? And let me convince you that this isn't a stray occurrence, these refugees routinely do these things in Karbala- engaging in anti-Shia ragebaiting in a city and country which sheltered and fed them, no questions asked. 

Are the  HTS holding a knife to their throat as well? Millions of them and not a single word of condemnation against the ongoing carnage? 

There are Shia populations in several Sunni countries who live under heavy duress, yet we haven't endorsed the criminal acts of those rulers. 

11 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

@AbdusSibtayn, the general norm in MENA has been the celebration of diversity, ethnic inclusion and religious acceptance...this has been noted by both Eastern and Western scholars alike...you're supporting racist tropes and Orientalist sterotypes and Islamophobic depictions when you present your narrative...your explanation is an oversimplification of events both past and present...it's also eerily reminiscent of Western foreign policy initiatives to frame modern ME geopolitics in terms of an easily explainable 1,500 year sectarian or partisan rift (e.g. Barack Obama comments about conflicts going back “millennia” in the Middle East - a comment he was critiqued for in 2016...also, Donald Trump comments about ____hole countries and his speech to West Point graduates...he stated at West Point that it was not the duty of the US servicemen to solve “ancient conflicts in faraway lands.")

Blaming everything on the West and the Zionists isn't the explanation either. 

They didn't create any fault lines, they used the existing ones to their advantage. 

Edited March 14 by AbdusSibtayn

[AbdusSibtayn]

@Eddie Mecca keep up the clown act and pray that you are raised with those whom you're apologizing for. 

Save the laughter emojis; they'll help you on the day of reckoning. 

قال إن تسخروا منا فإنا نسخر منكم كما تسخرون

Putting you on ignore, because I am here to discuss things, not to engage in buffoonery. 

Bye. 

[Irfani313]

12 hours ago, mahmood8726 said:

"sunnis hate us, it's deep in their veins, they've been doing it for 1400 years". 

But the truth is, they do. Call it a built in defect, or the everlasting affect of eating p—p of the camel of the mother of believers while she was heading to Kufa to commit an act of mini genocide. 
 

I still remember, throughout growing up, even the most secular, the most sympathetic used to have that wonderful glow on their faces for every little loss of IRI on any front.

Its the lack of political insight, or the lack of whatever, the realty is, many tummies are filled with the haram handouts of 1st laeen to the modern day laeens, their mothers and daughters donning the harems of their warlords, the centuries of haraam sustenance has produced so much haraam-ibn-haraam, that expecting anything of the alliance with the righteous is just plain impossible. 
 

This is the ‘extreme filtration’ of the end times; truth is evident, falsehood is evident, even the enemy himself is saying who are his allies and who are his adversaries, yet these haraam nafoos of bloodful centuries pick the side of Ibless, Yazeed, MBSs whatever & wherever a small chance they get. 
 

Overall, Ahlul Sunnah are our brothers and we Shia would do everything to assist our oppressed brothers among them. 

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 3/13/2025 at 5:07 AM, Eddie Mecca said:

The Ottoman Sultanate, while primarily adhering to Ash'ari Sufism, and Hanafism, demonstrated a widespread phenomenon of cultural "Ahl al-Baytism"...meaning they emphasized an enthusiastic love and reverence for the family of the Prophet Muhammad...this included the twelve Imams of Shi'i Islam...this suggests that 

Salam respectfully it seems that you have watched pro neo ottman netflix series  too much which whole of your idea about it just is based on altering history in pro neo Ottoman Netflix series & misinterpretation of biased information of The Frenchman Jean Chardin by pro neo Ottomans .

Quote

the Ottoman state wasn't a monolithic, rigid, overbearing manifestation of Sunni Islam...but rather a complicated tradition fused with richness, diversity and sometimes contradictory dimensions and elements

This is just your mindset about Ottomans based on your hatred against Safavids  & spreading false information & altering history just based on pro neo ottoman propaganda while  in in opposition to your nonsense in  reality Iran since Safavids era until now has had "a complicated tradition fused with richness, diversity and sometimes contradictory dimensions and elements" which children of children o children  of migrated Georgians are still living  in Iran ; while the Ottoman state  has been " a monolithic, rigid, overbearing manifestation of Sunni" which even now pro neo ottoman fans are demanding returning to the rigid, overbearing manifestation of Sunnism for reviving genocide of Armenians & taking their lands & brutally  & forcefully convert all non muslims even Shias according to them into their  rigid, overbearing manifestation of Sunnism which Syria civil war is just initiating their false dream .

Quote

Ordinary People’s Lives

Iranian community was in relatively favorable economic conditions. A reason to prove such a claim is the emergence of leisure time and various entertainments. Of course, spending too much time in entertainments drove some to laziness and lack of passion for work.

Part of Safavid period turned to be the period of numbness and depression. The immorality escalated as sensuality, drinking, bribery and addiction to drugs were increasing.

Despite clergies’ influence in government affairs, the common people were not banned from doing various things. Wine making workshops were working without any problems. Brothels were legitimately working and paying taxes. Teahouses in large cities were the places where people went to for having good time. Foreign slaves (like those from Georgian, Turkic, Armenian origins) entertained people in such places with dancing and flirtatious gesture. Such people were from all walks of life even from among poets, artists, scholars and so forth.

Retailers in cities and farmers in villages were among the poorest in Iran. Still, the outcome of their efforts was rarely stolen by the rich or powerful ones. In spite of this, in Safavid era, Iranian farmers enjoyed a higher level of welfare compared to the farmers of France.

Government managers, ministers and high ranking officials enjoyed the highest level of welfare. Everyone was assigned a set of job descriptions and found responsible for those categories. The chancellor could supervise all the affairs of the government after Shah.

https://www.destinationiran.com/history-safavids-iran-conversion-to-shiism.htm

On 3/14/2025 at 12:01 AM, Eddie Mecca said:

under Abbas I, 30,000 Georgian Christian prisoners were forced to become Muslim...

Persian Domination In Georgia

Period Of Revolts And Repression

During the following 150 years, Georgia was a battleground for various internal and external conflicts. While some Georgian nobles accepted Persian overlordship, others led rebellions against it. One of the most notable incidents was in 1616 when Shah Abbas I of Persia, in response to a Georgian revolt in Tbilisi, ordered a punitive massacre that resulted in the deaths of an estimated 130,000 to 200,000 people. This harsh repression led to the deportation of thousands of Georgians to Persia and the brutal execution of Queen Ketevan for her refusal to renounce Christianity. By the 17th century, constant warfare had plunged both eastern and western Georgia into poverty.

https://georgia.to/persian-domination-in-georgia/

According to Tarikh-e Alam-ara-ye Abbasi (p900) it has been number of captives in third raid of the Shah Abbas I of Persia which resulted " resulted in the deaths of an estimated 70,000 to 100,000 people."in war so then "captivating  of an estimated 130,000 to 200,000 people." after war which in his first raid he captivated 30,0000 people so therefore your false accusation of forcing Christian georgian to Islam by Abbas I is totally void which it has been just based on altering history by anti Safavid pro neo Ottomans .

https://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/گرجی‌های_ایران

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safavid_Georgia

Quote

As Safavid viceroy in the south, Emāmqolī Khan played a major role in breaking the power of the Portuguese in the Persian Gulf. The first blow against Portuguese hegemony had been struck by Emāmqolī Khan’s father, Allāhverdī Khan, who had occupied Bahrain in 1011/1602 (Eskandar Beg, I, p. 614-16.; tr., p. 804 ff.; Falsafī, IV, pp. 66-67);

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imam_Quli_Khan_(Safavid_governor)

https://iranicaonline.org/articles/emamqoli-khan

 

This is most big lie in month of Ramadan which you have stated based on false information of anti Safavid sites based on false  biased information of The Frenchman Jean Chardin   without  having any evidence or reliable document for proving your nonsense for altering history based on pro neo ottoman propaganda against Safavids ;  while based on reliable history documents majority of commanders of Safavids have been from  Georgian Christian which two great examples of them have been examples likewise Allāhverdī Khan & his son Emam Qoli khan (Imam Qoli Khan Undiladze) who is still praising as one  of greatest heroes of Iran for "he expulsion of the Portuguese from Irans southern islands" & many other Georgaina in opposition to your nonsense based on  biased information which has been mentioned by The Frenchman Jean Chardin  which has been misinterpreted by pro neo ottomans .

Quote

Imam Qoli Khan Undiladze: A Tribute to Iranian-Georgian Heroes on Persian Gulf Day

On April 29 Iranians commemorate the expulsion of the Portuguese from Irans southern islands marking it as the national day of the Persian Gulf. Each year we honor the courage and contributions of Imam Qoli Khan Undiladze the Georgian commander of the Iranian army.

https://georgia.mfa.gov.ir/en/NewsView/744366

Georgian commander of the Iranian army

https://gpress.org/en/articles/43

 

Georgians of Mazandaran

نویسندگان [English]

• Saleh Pargari ¹ 
•  
• Hibatullah Khorami Shurkai ² 
•  
• Mohammad Hassan Raznahan ³

¹ Associate Professor of Kharazmi University

² PhD student in history-Kharazmi University

³ Faculty member of Kharazmi University of Tehran

چکیده [English]  Abstract

One of the noteworthy issues of Western tourists who have been in Iran, is how Georgians become Muslim, especially during and after the Safavid era. Most of these tourists have described Georgians as unstable and weak in their religion and consider their converting to Islam to be expedient and for benefits. From the viewpoint of Western tourists, Georgians at that time longed for a return to Christianity. However, the results of this study show that Georgians living in Iran during the reign of Shah Abbas I, especially Georgians migrating to different regions such as Isfahan and Mazandaran, contrary to this claim, were mainly from the weak class of Georgia and were not happy with the Christianity as the religion of the upper class and the rulers of Georgia. They have chosen Islam at the right time and, contrary to the claims of some Western tourists, have been steadfast in their new religion and specifically the Shiite religion, and in the long run have been a source of valuable services.
Although in some cases there has been a return to Islam (due to the class differences in Georgia), it has been mainly related to some of the elders and relatives of the Georgian rulers who were forced to stay in Iran for some reason and rarely changed their religion according to their interests

Note in english Abstract correct  wording  is return  from Islam which has been mistranslated "return to Islam" which in original Farsi/Persian abstract text it's  "بازگشت از دین اسلام " which means leaving Islam or return  from Islam.

https://mte.journals.miu.ac.ir/article_4477.html

The captives of the Caucasus were called "Golam," but this term did not mean being slave or free. Chardin says in this regard: "... in Iran, when they say: the king's Golam (slave), it is like saying in France: count or marquis... but the word "رعیت""raiyet" which is used for the common people is a title of too low rank." [48]

The status of these slaves was so high that, as a sign of their chosen class, they were entitled to wear the twelve-pointed edged hat of the Qizilbash, while the Tajiks did not have this right. [49] After accepting Islam, the slaves were educated in the royal palaces and learned to read and write so that they could later serve at the court, in workshops, or in the army. [50]

Shah Abbas created a standing army by creating new regiments of Golams (slaves). The Georgians formed the core of his army and his soldiers, and with their help, Shah Abbas succeeded in completely changing the military organization.[51] Their number was about 30,000, of which 15,000 entered military affairs, and the rest were assigned to serve in the Shah's household or to other state jobs, according to their talent, ability, and the work they had learned.[52]

 

Quote

 فلسفی، زندگانی شاه عبّاس اوّل، ۲۳۰. [48]

 فلسفی، زندگانی شاه عبّاس اوّل، ۱۵۱.[49]

 کمپفر، سفرنامهٔ کمپفر، ۱۵۴. [50]

میراحمدی، دین و دولت در عصر صفوی، ۵۳. [51]

^{پرش به بالا به:۵۲٫۰ ۵۲٫۱} دلاواله، سفرنامهٔ پیترو دلاواله، ۳۴۵. [52]

[52] Della Valle, , p. 345

Georgians entered the ranks of the army and the bureaucracy in great numbers as well, turning into the mainstay of ḡolāms, or slave soldiers. Allāhverdī Khan (q.v.), an Armenian from Georgia, served as the army’s commander-in-chief for more than fifteen years (1004-22/1595-1613). During the reign of Shah ʿAbbās I, most of the soldiers equipped with firearms were Georgians, their integration into the army facilitated by the relative ease with which they apparently gave up their religion and converted to Islam (Della Valle, 1843, I, p. 760; Kaempfer, p. 273). A total of thirty thousand Georgians are said to have served in Shah ʿAbbās’s army (Della Valle, 1663, p. 8).

Quote

Georgians soon occupied administrative positions of the highest rank. Shah ʿAbbās in 998/1590 created the qollar (slave) corps, consisting of Circassians, Georgians, and Armenians, and its leader, the qollar-āqāsī, became one of the principal state officials (Eskander Beg II, p. 1106, tr. I, p. 527; Jonābādī, p. 716; Savory, p. 419; Taḏkerat al-molūk, tr. Minorsky, pp. 33, 46-47). Allāhverdī Khan was one of the first to hold this post. In the 1630s its incumbent was the equally powerful Ḵosrow Mīrzā (Rostam Khan), who has resided at the Safavid court since the days of Sultan Ḵodā-banda.

 

GEORGIA

vii. GEORGIANS IN THE SAFAVID ADMINISTRATION

Safavid interaction with Georgia and its inhabitants dates from the inception of the state in the early 16th century, when Georgians fought alongside the Qezelbāš in Shah Esmāʿīl I’s army (Grey, ed., pp. 190, 193; Scarcia Amoretti, p. 61). Under Shah Ṭahmāsb I (930-84/1524-76), Georgians, taken captive during the shah’s four expeditions into Georgia, began to be imported into Safavid territory. Ṭahmāsb’s campaign in 961/1554 is said to have brought thirty thousand people from the Caucasus to Persia (Shah Ṭahmāsb, p. 72; Ḥasan Rūmlū, ed. Navāʾī, p. 492; Eskandar Beg, p. 88). For the most part women and children, these were taken to the harems of the shah and the elite.

Shah ʿAbbās I further enlarged the pool of Georgians in Persia. Thousands were captured and taken south during his various campaigns in the Caucasus between 1023/1614 and 1025/1616.

Quote

Fifteen thousand families, Muslims, Jews, and Armenians, are said to have been deported from the Georgian capital of Zagam, Šīrvān, and Qarabāḡ and resettled in Faraḥābād in Māzandarān, where they were put to work to develop the area (Eskandar Beg, p. 881, tr. Savory, II, p. 1096; Della Valle, 1843, I, p. 598; Brosset, 1874-76, I, p. 488).

According to the Georgian historian Parsadan Gorgidzhanidze and the Frenchman Jean Chardin, eighty thousand families, Georgians, Armenians, and Jews, were deported to Māzandarān and other areas (Gorgidzhanidze, p. 73; Chardin, II, p. 62).

Quote

Eskandar Beg speaks of 130,000 as the number of Georgians taken to Persia during the campaign of 1025/1616, and Malekšāh Ḥosayn Sīstānī even claims the huge number of 200,000 captives (Eskandar Beg, pp. 900-901, tr. Savory, II, p. 1116; Malekšāh Ḥosayn, p. 509). Into the 19th century, concentrations of transplanted Georgians were still visible throughout Persia (Oberling and sources quoted therein).

The influence and power acquired by the Georgians in this period began in the royal harem, where women from the Caucasus, many of them of Georgian origin, became prominent. No less than four of Shah Ṭahmāsb’s surviving sons were born to him by Georgian wives (Eskandar Beg, p. 133; tr. Savory I, pp. 215-17), and one of his daughters by a Georgian wife, the powerful Zaynab Begom, played an important role at the court of her nephew, Shah ʿAbbās I. According to John Fryer (II, pp. 290-91), the queen mother in the 17th century was always a Georgian.

Quote

In reality, she was usually Circassian, though the difference is not always clear. Georgian women played an important role in the court’s marriage politics, and by the end of the Safavid reign a whole web of relations had been established (Krusinski, I, p. 122). Krusinski (I, pp. 128-29), inter alia insists that the influence of the Georgian harem women accounted for the Safavid tolerance for the country’s Christian population. Writing in the early 17th century, Pietro Della Valle (1663, p. 8; q.v.) claimed that there was not a household in Persia that did not have its Georgian slaves.

https://iranicaonline.org/articles/georgia-vii-

for further study

https://www.academia.edu/1615432/Enc_Ir_Georgians_in_Safavid_iran

[AbdusSibtayn]

3 hours ago, Irfani313 said:

But the truth is, they do. Call it a built in defect, or the everlasting affect of eating p—p of the camel of the mother of believers while she was heading to Kufa to commit an act of mini genocide. 
 

I still remember, throughout growing up, even the most secular, the most sympathetic used to have that wonderful glow on their faces for every little loss of IRI on any front.

Its the lack of political insight, or the lack of whatever, the realty is, many tummies are filled with the haram handouts of 1st laeen to the modern day laeens, their mothers and daughters donning the harems of their warlords, the centuries of haraam sustenance has produced so much haraam-ibn-haraam, that expecting anything of the alliance with the righteous is just plain impossible. 
 

This is the ‘extreme filtration’ of the end times; truth is evident, falsehood is evident, even the enemy himself is saying who are his allies and who are his adversaries, yet these haraam nafoos of bloodful centuries pick the side of Ibless, Yazeed, MBSs whatever & wherever a small chance they get. 
 

Overall, Ahlul Sunnah are our brothers and we Shia would do everything to assist our oppressed brothers among them. 

This is the lived experience of millions, but you can only counter arguments, and not wilful denial, with arguments. 

 

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 3/14/2025 at 8:31 AM, Eddie Mecca said:

ccording to historical estimates, as many as 20,000 Sunnis were put to death under his rule for refusing to forcefully convert...the tombs of Abbasid caliphs, the tomb of Abū Ḥanīfa, the shrine of Abdul Qādir al-Jīlānī were all blown to smithereens ISIS-style..

Salam this is totally another great lie by you which has no backbone except anti Safavid propaganda by  pro neo Ottomans which they are trying to portray themselves as protectors of tombs of Abbasid caliphs, the tomb of Abū Ḥanīfa, the shrine of Abdul Qādir al-Jīlānī while there is no evidence or reliable documentation about your false accusation against Safvid king except  false accusation of pro neo Ottomans against Safavids .

On 3/14/2025 at 8:31 AM, Eddie Mecca said:

.Shāfiʿī qāḍīs, ʿulamāʾ, laymen etc. hightailed it the hell out of the country in order to escape persecution..

In similar fashion your previous great lies your false accusation has no backbone except anti Safavid propaganda by  pro neo Ottomans  without having any evidence or reliable documentation.

 

[Eddie Mecca]

10 hours ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

Save the laughter emojis; they'll help you on the day of reckoning.

Being an advocate and apologist for ethnic cleansing and genocide and encouraging others to follow in my footsteps will do wonders for me on the Day of Requital — you're right, my giggle emojis are an unforgivable crime — yeah, I should take a long, hard look in the mirror (sarcasm) 

11 hours ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

And where exactly are we getting those 'tens of thousands' figures from?

On the one hand, you're bragging and being unapologetic about the massacres and attempting to rationalize the body count by comparing it to October 7th — on the other hand, you're deny the massacres ever took place (or claiming the carnage was grossly exaggerated) by challenging the historical accuracy of the total number of people killed — either boldly embrace the slaughter or sheepishly disavow or shy away from it — pick a stance already and own it!

11 hours ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

Iran has a substantial Sunni population to this day.

According to the latest statistics approximately 5 - 10% of Iranians are Sunni 

 

11 hours ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

(EDITED OUT) son of (EDITED OUT)

Stop cursing, it's the holy month of Ramadan for crying out loud — control yourself!

12 hours ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

Blaming everything on the West and the Zionists isn't the explanation either. 

Neither is being overly critical of Iran for engaging with Sunni Islamist groups or subtly implying we should collaborate with the Zionists or give the imperialists a "Get Out of Jail Free" Monopoly card because 'they're not the ones blowing up our shrines' as you once put it (paraphrase)

@AbdusSibtayn, Your command of the English language is impressive — SPLENDID DICTION! — you appeal to raw emotionalism — you'll cite a useful anecdote or reference a hurtful historical incident — you attempt to stir up deep resentment and fiery sentiment by using inflammatory language — language that's premeditated and carefully calculated — you exploit people's longings and emotions and then attempt to redirect their energies in unhealthy and unfruitful ways — you use emotional manipulation in order to stoke sectarian animosity and antagonism — Imam Ali (عَلَيْهِ ٱلسَّلَامُ) warned about allowing anger to rule us and about the detrimental aftermath — it can lead to regret and sorrow — the actions and decisions we undertake may harm ourselves or others — we may later realize that our anger clouded our judgment — with regard to Sunni hatred and sectarianism, the Qurʾān clearly states, "And hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together and do not become divided. And remember the favor of Allah upon you - when you were enemies and He brought your hearts together and you became, by His favor, brothers. And you were on the edge of a pit of the Fire, and He saved you from it."  — with regard to the endorsement of wholesale slaughter of innocents, the Qurʾān says, "If anyone kills a person, it would be as if he killed the whole people."

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 3/14/2025 at 8:31 AM, Eddie Mecca said:

likewise, the Ottomans committed similar atrocities...both the Ottoman Empire and Safavid dynasty had positive points and negative aspects to their respected reigns...as practicing Twelvers and as moral and ethical people, we should single out these breaches and travesties of Islamic history and learn from them in order to prevent succeeding repetition...not gloss over them or even worse, glorify and encourage future generations to mimick such behavior 

Your job here is crystaly clear is whitewashing brutal blood thirsty Ottomans & spreading false infromation against Safavids based on rhetoric of pro neo Ottomans ; through altering history without having any backbone for your false accusations against Safavids ; but on the other hand you have glorified  Ottomans & encouraged " future generations to mimick" the brutal bloody behavior of Ottomans gainst Shia/Alawites  Muslims .

Anyway if you don't love so called Safavid Shhism so then anytime you can convert to your favorit neo Ottoman Sunnism .but respectfully don't call yourself a moralist ethical practicing Shia Muslim.

Edited March 15 by Ashvazdanghe

[mahmood8726]

 

https://en.mehrnews.com/news/229602/UNSC-condemns-Julani-government-s-attacks-on-Syria

 

America and Russia just did this at the UN. There was talks in recent days that Russia, america and the Israeli regime are working together to carve up Syria after joulanis regime gave them the pretext(with his massacres) to do so. 

 

Also the Israeli regime is planning to not allow the Syrian terrorists in that zone:

That dot at the top right of the red area is Damascus city. 

Edited March 15 by mahmood8726