Not all that attracted to otherwise perfect potential wife?

November 10

I've been praying for and looking for a wife for a long time now, and recently I met someone who is perfect. She is very religious, knowledgeable, has beautiful Akhlaq and a strong sense of God-consciousness. We are both in our late 20s in the West.

But, I'm not all that attracted to her. She isn't ugly nor does she have any sort of physical deformity, but I have a voice in my head saying I can do better, though I know I probably can't. I'm very satisfied with this person's character and morals, and feel she will be an amazing wife and mother, but its just this one aspect where I am hesitating.

I don't like the rating scale, but to put it in objective perspective, I think I'm about a 6-7 and she is probably a 4. Throughout highschool and University, when I wasn't as religious, I talked to other girls who I found very attractive and could probably marry some of them if I tried. Though in terms of Taqwa and Akhlaq they don't measure up even in the slightest to this girl, they all wore heaps of makeup, and weren't very modest.

I read this chapter 6 in https://www.al-islam.org/youth-and-spouse-selection-ali-akbar-mazaheri/chapter-six-selection#sage-guide although I personally know some people I can go to, I don't want to marry and have them know I don't find my wife attractive. So I come here instead, please convince me to snap out of my idealistic delusions. I have read many hadiths on how Akhlaq and Taqwa are the most important things in a marriage, this girl is making me a better muslim in the brief time we spoke. As well I read about how if you marry someone God-conscious and not all that attractive, God makes the attraction grow after marriage. I also read the story of laila and majnoon and how laila was an unattractive girl, but majnoon found her beautiful.

But I don't know what to do, I know myself and don't want to harbour regret and jealousy, or god forbid, betray her in our marriage. Also, it doesn't help that many of my friends are all dating or chase beautiful women, so I sometimes think I should hold out..

Please help, this woman is perfect but not as attractive as other girls I talked to, but they don't hold a candle to her Akhlaq, knowledge or Taqwa.

The thing is, she is a little bit overweight, and I think if she lost some weight, became more fit, she would look much better. And she told me she does want to do this.. But I don't want to marry potential or have to change her.

Ashvazdanghe · November 11

16 hours ago, Guest Struggling_Brother said:

Please help, this woman is perfect but not as attractive as other girls I talked to, but they don't hold a candle to her Akhlaq, knowledge or Taqwa.

The thing is, she is a little bit overweight, and I think if she lost some weight, became more fit, she would look much better. And she told me she does want to do this.. But I don't want to marry potential or have to change her.

16 hours ago, Guest Struggling_Brother said:

But I don't know what to do, I know myself and don't want to harbour regret and jealousy, or god forbid, betray her in our marriage. Also, it doesn't help that many of my friends are all dating or chase beautiful women, so I sometimes think I should hold out..

Salam just accept her as your wife without delay & hesitation which just dive in marriage which you don't marry for show off & showing your wife to your friends for making rivalry with them ; which the voice in your head about such matters are whispers of cursed Satan/Shaitan so therefore take refugee to Allah so then with trust to Allah marry with her without delay & hesitation.

Hadith n. 175

175. Amir al-mu'minin, peace be upon him, said: When you are afraid of something dive straight into it, because the intensity of abstaining from it is greater (worse) than what you are afraid of.

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/selections-sayings-and-preaching-amir-al-muminin-ali#hadith-n-175

Hadith n. 363
363. Amir a1-mu'minin, peace be upon him, said: To make haste before the proper time or to delay after a proper opportunity, in either case is folly.

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/selections-sayings-and-preaching-amir-al-muminin-ali#hadith-n-166

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/selections-sayings-and-preaching-amir-al-muminin-ali#hadith-n-363

Explanation of the Hadith: This statement of the Imam, peace be upon him, is a warning to those who do not have the courage to start doing logical and principled things and are hesitant, for example, they want to learn a profession or technology or start a family. They delay it for today and tomorrow. it's here The words of the Imam (peace be upon him) should not be misunderstood, that if he is afraid of anything that is contrary to Sharia, customs and reason dive into it, he certainly means the things that ensure the happiness and exaltation of man in this world and the hereafter, stop hesitating and expose yourself to that work and you will see that the fear was unnecessary and you will be freed from the torment of self-holding and wandering.

The Imam, peace be upon him, inspires the audience with his speech and strengthens his self-confidence and strengthens the poetry of "we can" for independent nations. Someone who wants to do godly work, has no fear, finally courage and bravery starts the work and is always will be successful and victorious.

Certainly, whoever submits his will to Allah and is virtuous, he shall have his reward from his Lord, and they will have no fear, nor shall they grieve. (112)

https://rasekhoon.net/hadith/show/1443941#:~:text=امام علی علیه السلام فرمودند%3A إِذَا هِبْتَ أَمْراً,چیزی است که تو از آن می ترسی.

Edited November 11 by Ashvazdanghe

laithAlIRAQI · November 11

I am in the same boat, but i chose to go ahead and pursue as she and her family are great people in terms of reputation and akhlaq. Ive asked myself if what im going through with is really what i want, but i think looking at it that way is egoistical.

Theres more to marriage than looks and sex, i learned that the hard way. My ex wife was rather attractive, but no akhlaq nor respect. Id rather be single than having to deal with such a person and being unfortunate enough to have a child with her.

I think you should trust in god and go through with it, maybe bring up some of your concerns and talk to her nicely about it. no one is perfect and we all have to strive to become better somehow.

Edited November 11 by laithAlIRAQI

November 11

Respectfully, this is selfish and cruel. She deserves a man who loves everything about her including her looks. You will harbour this feeling and it will show in your actions and comments towards her over the years. If you think shes so great, why would you not want her to have a great life too?

AbdusSibtayn · November 11

Looks fade away with age. Character stays (largely) the same.

Some years into marriage, looks don't even matter much. You'll both have known too much, seen too much of each other to care about these flimsy, superficial things. At your best and worst.

Piety and Character>>>>> Looks.

What you are suffering from is not even idealism. This is conditioning by the entertainment, cosmetics and dating industry which has spread throughout the society like a cancer. This is more like brain fog than idealism.

Imagine what the women you consider attractive would look like without the caking of makeup and their skimpy, skin-showing outfit, and there you have your answer.

Don't mistake a jewel for a piece of gravel and waste the tawfeeq that allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has sent your way. You might (most likely) live to regret it.

Ma salama.

November 11

5 hours ago, laithAlIRAQI said:

I am in the same boat, but i chose to go ahead and pursue as she and her family are great people in terms of reputation and akhlaq. Ive asked myself if what im going through with is really what i want, but i think looking at it that way is egoistical.

Theres more to marriage than looks and sex, i learned that the hard way. My ex wife was rather attractive, but no akhlaq nor respect. Id rather be single than having to deal with such a person and being unfortunate enough to have a child with her.

I think you should trust in god and go through with it, maybe bring up some of your concerns and talk to her nicely about it. no one is perfect and we all have to strive to become better somehow.

"Looking it that way is egotistical". This resonates with me, I finally found someone who fits my criteria but I'm willing to discard it because of my ego in my own attractiveness and sense of worth. As well as jealousy in seeing the women who my peers interact with and the women who approached me before.

How are you finding marriage with your current wife? Did your guys' attraction grow over time, did your connection get stronger? Do you feel any sort of regret in your choice?

And how was your guys' connection/vibe/spark when you started talking, and now? I noticed sometimes in our conversations, the chemistry is there sometimes and sometimes it isn't. I don't know if this is a concern or something to be wary of? Or is this because we are keeping everything halal and not flirting or talking informally.

2 hours ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

Looks fade away with age. Character stays (largely) the same.

Some years into marriage, looks don't even matter much. You'll both have known too much, seen too much of each other to care about these flimsy, superficial things. At your best and worst.

Piety and Character>>>>> Looks.

What you are suffering from is not even idealism. This is conditioning by the entertainment, cosmetics and dating industry which has spread throughout the society like a cancer. This is more like brain fog than idealism.

Imagine what the women you consider attractive would look like without the caking of makeup and their skimpy, skin-showing outfit, and there you have your answer.

Don't mistake a jewel for a piece of gravel and waste the tawfeeq that allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has sent your way. You might (most likely) live to regret it.

Ma salama.

"This is conditioning by the entertainment, cosmetics and dating industry which has spread throughout the society like a cancer. This is more like brain fog than idealism.", It's scary how common it is too, its prevalent literally everywhere and makes the burden on our sisters who abstain that much harder. Personally, literally all of the women I interacted with previously wore heavy heavy makeup, tight/revealing clothes, accessories, etc. So the comparisons against the God-fearing women who don't do that, and finding them undesirable feels twisted and regrettable.

I think this person would look pretty as well with makeup and if she became a bit more fit.

I will continue talking with her because I think she will bring me closer to God, but I'm still a bit concerned about our lack of spark in some conversations. What if we become bored of one another and don't enjoy each other's company? We will have to spend the rest of our lives together..

November 12

14 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam just accept her as your wife without delay & hesitation which just dive in marriage which you don't marry for show off & showing your wife to your friends for making rivalry with them ; which the voice in your head about such matters are whispers of cursed Satan/Shaitan so therefore take refugee to Allah so then with trust to Allah marry with her without delay & hesitation.

Hadith n. 175

175. Amir al-mu'minin, peace be upon him, said: When you are afraid of something dive straight into it, because the intensity of abstaining from it is greater (worse) than what you are afraid of.

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/selections-sayings-and-preaching-amir-al-muminin-ali#hadith-n-175

Hadith n. 363
363. Amir a1-mu'minin, peace be upon him, said: To make haste before the proper time or to delay after a proper opportunity, in either case is folly.

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/selections-sayings-and-preaching-amir-al-muminin-ali#hadith-n-166

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/selections-sayings-and-preaching-amir-al-muminin-ali#hadith-n-363

Explanation of the Hadith: This statement of the Imam, peace be upon him, is a warning to those who do not have the courage to start doing logical and principled things and are hesitant, for example, they want to learn a profession or technology or start a family. They delay it for today and tomorrow. it's here The words of the Imam (peace be upon him) should not be misunderstood, that if he is afraid of anything that is contrary to Sharia, customs and reason dive into it, he certainly means the things that ensure the happiness and exaltation of man in this world and the hereafter, stop hesitating and expose yourself to that work and you will see that the fear was unnecessary and you will be freed from the torment of self-holding and wandering.

The Imam, peace be upon him, inspires the audience with his speech and strengthens his self-confidence and strengthens the poetry of "we can" for independent nations. Someone who wants to do godly work, has no fear, finally courage and bravery starts the work and is always will be successful and victorious.

Certainly, whoever submits his will to Allah and is virtuous, he shall have his reward from his Lord, and they will have no fear, nor shall they grieve. (112)

https://rasekhoon.net/hadith/show/1443941#:~:text=امام علی علیه السلام فرمودند%3A إِذَا هِبْتَ أَمْراً,چیزی است که تو از آن می ترسی.

Salam thank you for these resources brother. The hadith by Imam Ali ((عليه السلام)) about forgoing opportunities is sagacious.

Since she is making me a better Muslim, I'll move forward with the marriage and leave it in God's hands.

9 hours ago, Guest aMuslimWoman said:

Respectfully, this is selfish and cruel. She deserves a man who loves everything about her including her looks. You will harbour this feeling and it will show in your actions and comments towards her over the years. If you think shes so great, why would you not want her to have a great life too?

I agree with you, I thought I was being quite selfish. And frankly she is too good for me.

But she is satisfied with me, so I am not going to self-sabotage. Instead I will try to be the husband she deserves, one who brings her closer to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and show her the affection and care she deserves.

AbdusSibtayn · November 12

4 hours ago, Guest strugglingBr said:

"Looking it that way is egotistical". This resonates with me, I finally found someone who fits my criteria but I'm willing to discard it because of my ego in my own attractiveness and sense of worth. As well as jealousy in seeing the women who my peers interact with and the women who approached me before.

How are you finding marriage with your current wife? Did your guys' attraction grow over time, did your connection get stronger? Do you feel any sort of regret in your choice?

And how was your guys' connection/vibe/spark when you started talking, and now? I noticed sometimes in our conversations, the chemistry is there sometimes and sometimes it isn't. I don't know if this is a concern or something to be wary of? Or is this because we are keeping everything halal and not flirting or talking informally.

"This is conditioning by the entertainment, cosmetics and dating industry which has spread throughout the society like a cancer. This is more like brain fog than idealism.", It's scary how common it is too, its prevalent literally everywhere and makes the burden on our sisters who abstain that much harder. Personally, literally all of the women I interacted with previously wore heavy heavy makeup, tight/revealing clothes, accessories, etc. So the comparisons against the God-fearing women who don't do that, and finding them undesirable feels twisted and regrettable.

I think this person would look pretty as well with makeup and if she became a bit more fit.

I will continue talking with her because I think she will bring me closer to God, but I'm still a bit concerned about our lack of spark in some conversations. What if we become bored of one another and don't enjoy each other's company? We will have to spend the rest of our lives together..

Yes, that cancer is everywhere and is hollowing out the society. So if one sees a sister rejecting it despite the societal pressure, then she is a keeper. I don't quite understand the last line of your first paragraph.

A woman is allowed to put on make-up for her husband, and she is encouraged to stay in good shape so that her husband finds her attractive. If she's really religious and aware of the mutual rights of husbands and wives then this shouldn't be a problem for her.

The 'spark' often grows as a part of marriage. There are more mundane, prosaic things to marriage than things poetic, so even partners who find each other conventionally 'attractive' may tire of each other, and in our age of instant gratification and consumerism, it's a possibility always knocking at the door.

**Abu Hadi** · November 12

On 11/10/2024 at 1:38 PM, Guest Struggling_Brother said:

I've been praying for and looking for a wife for a long time now, and recently I met someone who is perfect. She is very religious, knowledgeable, has beautiful Akhlaq and a strong sense of God-consciousness. We are both in our late 20s in the West.

But, I'm not all that attracted to her. She isn't ugly nor does she have any sort of physical deformity, but I have a voice in my head saying I can do better, though I know I probably can't. I'm very satisfied with this person's character and morals, and feel she will be an amazing wife and mother, but its just this one aspect where I am hesitating.

I don't like the rating scale, but to put it in objective perspective, I think I'm about a 6-7 and she is probably a 4. Throughout highschool and University, when I wasn't as religious, I talked to other girls who I found very attractive and could probably marry some of them if I tried. Though in terms of Taqwa and Akhlaq they don't measure up even in the slightest to this girl, they all wore heaps of makeup, and weren't very modest.

I read this chapter 6 in https://www.al-islam.org/youth-and-spouse-selection-ali-akbar-mazaheri/chapter-six-selection#sage-guide although I personally know some people I can go to, I don't want to marry and have them know I don't find my wife attractive. So I come here instead, please convince me to snap out of my idealistic delusions. I have read many hadiths on how Akhlaq and Taqwa are the most important things in a marriage, this girl is making me a better muslim in the brief time we spoke. As well I read about how if you marry someone God-conscious and not all that attractive, God makes the attraction grow after marriage. I also read the story of laila and majnoon and how laila was an unattractive girl, but majnoon found her beautiful.

But I don't know what to do, I know myself and don't want to harbour regret and jealousy, or god forbid, betray her in our marriage. Also, it doesn't help that many of my friends are all dating or chase beautiful women, so I sometimes think I should hold out..

Please help, this woman is perfect but not as attractive as other girls I talked to, but they don't hold a candle to her Akhlaq, knowledge or Taqwa.

The thing is, she is a little bit overweight, and I think if she lost some weight, became more fit, she would look much better. And she told me she does want to do this.. But I don't want to marry potential or have to change her.

I hate to get too personal about this, but I think it must be said at this point. You need to ask yourself this question (and please don't answer it here out of respect for the sister). The answer is personal to you and you shouldn't care what other people think.

Can you imagine it would be a pleasurable act to sleep with her ? If yes, then everything is ok and you should move forward with the marriage.

If the answer is no, or you don't know then you should seriously consider whether you should marry her or not, despite the other factors being in place.

The reason is very logical. The 'act' is one of the things that is a strong pillar to hold up the marriage. Couples get into arguments and go thru alot of things together which create friction and tension in the marriage. It is this act, plus their respect for each other and trust in each other that keep the marriage together. These are like the three pillars which hold up the tent of marriage. If one of them is missing, the marriage will not be strong and there is a high likelihood it will end.

It is like the positive and negative forces in the nucleus of the atom. Without protons, which are the + force, the atom would collapse in on itself and without the electrons (-) force, the atom would fly apart. It is the balance of these forces which keep the atom together, just like it is those three positive forces that keep the marriage together despite all the negative forces you will encounter in the world.

Her Iman and Taqwa and general good character and trustworthiness will lead you to trust her and respect her, and this is 2/3 of the marriage relationship. Without those 2/3 the marriage will quickly fall apart, no matter how physically attracted you are to her. At the same time, if that other 1/3 isn't there, the marriage will be difficult. I am not saying it will be impossible and some brothers and sisters have gotten thru this. I just think you should know that without this 1/3 you are in for a difficult time. As long as you know that going into the marriage.

Edited November 12 by Abu Hadi

Al-Zayddiyah · November 12

On 11/11/2024 at 5:38 AM, Guest Struggling_Brother said:

they all wore heaps of makeup, and weren't very modest

Your standard may be skewed to some degree by this. Obviously if your baseline is someone wearing makeup and dressing immodestly then are going to be more attractive in your view even if they were, without all of that, less attractive. Just a little something to consider.

AbdusSibtayn · November 12

6 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

Can you imagine it would be a pleasurable act to sleep with her ?

Bruhhhhhh........ :hahaha:

Edited November 12 by AbdusSibtayn

**realizm** · November 12

1 hour ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

Bruhhhhhh........

It had to be said though...

Irfani313 · November 12

11 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

I hate to get too personal about this, but I think it must be said at this point. You need to ask yourself this question (and please don't answer it here out of respect for the sister). The answer is personal to you and you shouldn't care what other people think.

Can you imagine it would be a pleasurable act to sleep with her ? If yes, then everything is ok and you should move forward with the marriage.

If the answer is no, or you don't know then you should seriously consider whether you should marry her or not, despite the other factors being in place.

The reason is very logical. The 'act' is one of the things that is a strong pillar to hold up the marriage. Couples get into arguments and go thru alot of things together which create friction and tension in the marriage. It is this act, plus their respect for each other and trust in each other that keep the marriage together. These are like the three pillars which hold up the tent of marriage. If one of them is missing, the marriage will not be strong and there is a high likelihood it will end.

It is like the positive and negative forces in the nucleus of the atom. Without protons, which are the + force, the atom would collapse in on itself and without the electrons (-) force, the atom would fly apart. It is the balance of these forces which keep the atom together, just like it is those three positive forces that keep the marriage together despite all the negative forces you will encounter in the world.

Her Iman and Taqwa and general good character and trustworthiness will lead you to trust her and respect her, and this is 2/3 of the marriage relationship. Without those 2/3 the marriage will quickly fall apart, no matter how physically attracted you are to her. At the same time, if that other 1/3 isn't there, the marriage will be difficult. I am not saying it will be impossible and some brothers and sisters have gotten thru this. I just think you should know that without this 1/3 you are in for a difficult time. As long as you know that going into the marriage.

^^ Endorsed by another “married” brother here.

Spouses aren’t siblings, they got to have physical attraction for each other. If you don’t see it in them, no matter how prefect they are in other boxes, don’t marry.

Also don’t marry if they check physical attraction box but don’t check your common principals box, equally destructive.

Edited November 12 by Irfani313

**ireallywannaknow** · November 13

Physical attraction should not be downplayed but like you said, religious girls are sort of at a disadvantage because they don't wear makeup and tight clothes. It could make a world of difference if you see her without her hijab and with cute clothes on and some makeup. She would probably be just as attractive as the other girls that you find attractive in public. But if that doesn't work for you and she is still not your type and you just are simply not attracted to her despite her loving her best, do not marry her.

zarya · November 13

Salaam Alaykum,

I think this feed has mostly the male perspective of the situation, which I encourage and it is all worthy advice.

However I will give a view point from a female perspective and expand upon @ireallywannaknow point. The way a Muslimah's outward appearance is within the world, especially a pious girl, is different from her internal appearance within the home. If she is pious she will understand that it is discouraged from wearing makeup outside. My bias view says all girls are beautiful but makeup does enhance a girls beauty, therefore it is how it is framed to appeal to eye. Girls are like a canvas initially it is plain but there are different techniques to enhance this. That is what you view in these "other girls you found attractive", they are a plain canvas behind their makeup, and even if you think they aren't wearing any, 90% time they have used certain products in order to enhance their beauty. Especially currently as more softer look makeup is encouraged so it is harder to distinguish whether a girl is wearing makeup or not. You wouldn't even believe the time (and money) that is dedicated by some girls in order to perfect their appearance when they enter the outside world. Even fashion can change the perspective of a persons appearance. Girls faces and bodies are constantly evolving, plus as we grow we learn techniques to beautify ourselves more and more. A healthy diet, natural beauty products and exercise can completely change a girls appearance.

To continue from that as mentioned above by other members a Muslimah in her own home, in the company of her husband is encouraged to make themselves appealing and attractive. The Holy Prophet Muhammad (sawa) said: "It is to a woman to perfume herself with her best fragrances, wear her best clothes, and ornament herself with her best ornamentation in order to present herself available to her husband whether it is day or night." Al-Kafi, vol. 5, p. 508 As you stated that she could loose some weight, if you wish to encourage her to loose weight especially if she has said she will, then sometimes it is hard for girls to exercise by themselves. Therefore if you wish to proceed with marriage, I would advice you exercise with her, that way you are not putting that on her shoulders alone. Also it is a good activity for you both to participate in, it will grow your bond stronger because she'll feel more devoted in achieving her ideal weight for you.

Aside from everything mentioned by the members above, what I have learned from life is someone who makes you feel happiness, warmth in your heart is worth it. Especially a partner you can laugh with and want to share all your life stories with, regardless of their outwardly appearance, if she is capable of being your best friend then the chemistry will never extinguish between you. But most Importantly who would you want as the mother of your children, who would bring your children closer to Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and the Ahlulbayt while encouraging them to be a help for Imam Al-Mahdi(ajfj).

This is all my opinion, and flawed in areas which I hope you can forgive me for but I hope it enlightens you from one aspect to understand that the decision of marriage should never come down to a girls appearance! Regardless if it is this Muslimah or another.

The Holy Prophet Muhammad (sawa) said, “Do not marry a woman for the following four reasons: Wealth, beauty, ancestry and lust. It is obligatory upon you to marry a woman on account of her religion.” (Jaame ul Akhbar)

The Holy Prophet Muhammad (sawa) said “A man who marries a woman for the sake of her wealth, Allah leaves him in his own condition, and one who marries her (only) for her beauty, will find in her (things) which he dislikes (unpleasing manners) and Allah will gather up all these things for one who marries her for the sake of her faith (religiousness).” (Wasa’il ul-Shi’a, Vol. 14, p. 31)

Edited November 13 by zarya

AbdusSibtayn · November 13

7 hours ago, realizm said:

It had to be said though...

I know, just found it a bit ticklish.

**Abu Hadi** · November 13

10 hours ago, ireallywannaknow said:

Physical attraction should not be downplayed but like you said, religious girls are sort of at a disadvantage because they don't wear makeup and tight clothes.

Guys have a really good imagination in this particular aspect, as you know. So it's not as much of a disadvantage as you think.

Religious girls have a huge advantage in the fact that they are honest and trustworthy and have good morals. This is much, much more difficult to find vs physically attractive girls. Although physically attractive girls are somewhat rare (although they are not that hard to find), girls with good morals and values who actually live their lives according to these values are the rarest of the rare. Most guys know this.

The previous point I was trying to make is that physical attraction should be a floor rather than a ceiling. If a potential wife meets that threshold, then she is attractive for the purposes of the marriage relationship. This whole thing about rating and numbers 'Well I am a 7 and she is a 4' is complete nonsense and it doesn't make any difference when it comes to the long-term viability of a marriage.

Religious girls only have a problem when it comes to marketing and PR. They need to be more 'out there' and need to inform their potential spouse of their good qualities. They need to actually sell their good points. Some just sit there in their hijab or abaya and expect the guys to figure out all their good qualities. It doesn't work like that. They need to specifically say, in whatever way they want that they are the lady that will be a good and faithful partner and someone the husband can depend on and someone he can build a future and a family with and children who will be raised in the rights way and InShahAllah the Sadaqa Jaria will go on for generations. This is something most men, even non-Muslim but especially Muslim men care alot about.

I am sure that if a religious girl would do this (the talking part) with her potential husband maybe this guy would not accept but she would not be single for very long. I was involved in heavenly match and other marriage projects and the few sisters I knew who did this were married very quickly. The problem is most of them don't do this and except the guy to just figure it out on his own.

Edited November 13 by Abu Hadi

Irfani313 · November 13

47 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

Guys have a really good imagination in this particular aspect, as you know. So it's not as much of a disadvantage as you think.

Religious girls have a huge advantage in the fact that they are honest and trustworthy and have good morals. This is much, much more difficult to find vs physically attractive girls. Although physically attractive girls are somewhat rare (although they are not that hard to find), girls with good morals and values who actually live their lives according to these values are the rarest of the rare. Most guys know this.

The previous point I was trying to make is that physical attraction should be a floor rather than a ceiling. If a potential wife meets that threshold, then she is attractive for the purposes of the marriage relationship. This whole thing about rating and numbers 'Well I am a 7 and she is a 4' is complete nonsense and it doesn't make any difference when it comes to the long-term viability of a marriage.

Religious girls only have a problem when it comes to marketing and PR. They need to be more 'out there' and need to inform their potential spouse of their good qualities. They need to actually sell their good points. Some just sit there in their hijab or abaya and expect the guys to figure out all their good qualities. It doesn't work like that. They need to specifically say, in whatever way they want that they are the lady that will be a good and faithful partner and someone the husband can depend on and someone he can build a future and a family with and children who will be raised in the rights way and InShahAllah the Sadaqa Jaria will go on for generations. This is something most men, even non-Muslim but especially Muslim men care alot about.

I am sure that if a religious girl would do this (the talking part) with her potential husband maybe this guy would not accept but she would not be single for very long. I was involved in heavenly match and other marriage projects and the few sisters I knew who did this were married very quickly. The problem is most of them don't do this and except the guy to just figure it out on his own.

Ahsant- Also kindly add some ways of ‘advertising’ yourself, many young sisters don’t know how to.

My advice to my daughters, nieces, and younger sisters in my community has been to be involved in community events, working opportunities, in their schools, at college organization etc. Not for the purpose of marriage, but always keeping marriage purpose in the back of their minds. People see what you do and where you are, and based on that, they rightfully determine where your mind is.

As far as advice on making yourself physically attractive, there is a Chinese saying, “there are no ugly girls, there are lazy girls”, I tell this to my daughters and my nieces all the time (of course can’t tell to the kids in my community); 100% of a woman’s physical beautify is in her health and how she carries herself.
Health, hygiene, and conducting yourself with class without being fake (no face paints aka makeup needed) is all you need to passively attract any man.

OP: Maybe the advice above would help your potential spouse to understand what you mean!!

AbdusSibtayn · November 13

Selecting a partner seems to be such an ordeal. Singledom seems better/easier.

[*SERIOUS*]

[// PLEASE DON'T CANCEL ME //]

Al-Zayddiyah · November 14

On 11/13/2024 at 10:17 PM, Abu Hadi said:

Guys have a really good imagination in this particular aspect, as you know. So it's not as much of a disadvantage as you think.

It really is though, someone who consistently wears makeup and tight clothes is always going to be consistently attractive in your mind even if you can perhaps imagine them without it, it colours your perception of them. Likewise for the inverse.

On 11/13/2024 at 10:17 PM, Abu Hadi said:

Religious girls only have a problem when it comes to marketing and PR. They need to be more 'out there' and need to inform their potential spouse of their good qualities. They need to actually sell their good points. Some just sit there in their hijab or abaya and expect the guys to figure out all their good qualities. It doesn't work like that.

The thing is what can women do in regards to PR if you are you more virtuous if you don't wear tight clothes and makeup talk to non mehrems etc.. it is difficult to "sell your good points" when you can very quickly compromise on those good points.

Al-Zayddiyah · November 14

damned if you do, dammed if you don't :ko:

123xo · November 14

Hello OP,

Just be honest with her and tell her that she needs to put effort into her appearance as much as her akhlaq,taqwa, knowledge etc, nothing is wrong with that as this will help you determine whether she's the right person for you in the long run or not because attraction is not a seed that grows overtime it's either hit or miss lol.

Plus if she was all the great things you said she was then she would not be offended by what you're saying but rather she would take that as a clear indication of what your expectations are, if you don't say anything now she will literally think you're all satisfied and happy with how she is and she will continue being how she is only to get more "comfortable" later on in the marriage.

So be clear about your wants and expectations before marriage as this will allow the both of you to choose wisely.

Also please don't listen to the ones that say that you're cruel or bad for being honest with yourself, they're literally the ones that have no space for self improvement and consider anything out of their comfort zone as bad or cruel.

Xo

AbdusSibtayn · November 15

7 hours ago, 123xo said:

Hello OP,

Just be honest with her and tell her that she needs to put effort into her appearance as much as her akhlaq,taqwa, knowledge etc, nothing is wrong with that as this will help you determine whether she's the right person for you in the long run or not because attraction is not a seed that grows overtime it's either hit or miss lol.

Plus if she was all the great things you said she was then she would not be offended by what you're saying but rather she would take that as a clear indication of what your expectations are, if you don't say anything now she will literally think you're all satisfied and happy with how she is and she will continue being how she is only to get more "comfortable" later on in the marriage.

So be clear about your wants and expectations before marriage as this will allow the both of you to choose wisely.

Also please don't listen to the ones that say that you're cruel or bad for being honest with yourself, they're literally the ones that have no space for self improvement and consider anything out of their comfort zone as bad or cruel.

Xo

But is it right for a man to demand that a woman change her physical appearance for him even before he has decided if he's marrying her? As in, what right does he have to demand this, and why would she? What would be her motivation/incentive? Just asking.

Why would she do husband/fiance things for him when he's clearly not a husband/fiance yet, but just a potential suitor at best?

Not looking to argue/debate, just asking. Apologies if it sounds offensive to someone.

Edited November 15 by AbdusSibtayn

123xo · November 15

2 hours ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

But is it right for a man to demand that a woman change her physical appearance for him even before he has decided if he's marrying her? As in, what right does he have to demand this, and why would she? What would be her motivation/incentive? Just asking.

Why would she do husband/fiance things for him when he's clearly not a husband/fiance yet, but just a potential suitor at best?

Not looking to argue/debate, just asking. Apologies if it sounds offensive to someone.

Salam Abdus, not sure why you took what i suggested to OP as demanding.
I think he should be clear and for him to share what he's sharing with us but rather with her as she's the main character in this scenario. She doesn't need to change if she doesn't want to nor does he need to pressure her but if she's invested in him she'd want to better herself. It's normal for couples to communicate about their wants, needs and expectations of one another otherwise how are you supposed to be in a satisfied fulfilled relationship if you are not completely satisfied with your spouse? Plus the issues he has with her appearance are something she has control over and can enhance if she took care of herself, it's not like he's saying i don't like how far apart her eyes are ? (Which she has no control over).

Anyways i hope i didnt offend you or anyone else either.

xo

Edited November 15 by 123xo

Al-Zayddiyah · November 15

3 hours ago, 123xo said:

She doesn't need to change if she doesn't want to nor does he need to pressure her but if she's invested in him she'd want to better herself. It's normal for couples to communicate about their wants, needs and expectations of one another otherwise how are you supposed to be in a satisfied fulfilled relationship if you are not completely satisfied with your spouse? Plus the issues he has with her appearance are something she has control over and can enhance if she took care of herself, it's not like he's saying i don't like how far apart her eyes are ?

Salam sis,

The key thing here is, they aren't a couple, they are courting (not married) and therefore he cant really ask her to beautify herself. Furthermore, as a religious woman she likely is not beautifying herself to avoid tabarujj, there's a line between tabarujj and cleanliness which is crossed by so many women nowadays that trying to maintain taqwa in such issues has become increasingly difficult. Another thing is, issues of attractiveness need to be handled with sensitivity because the thought of not being attractive to your own husband really tanks a woman's self worth.

Irfani313 · November 15

9 hours ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

But is it right for a man to demand that a woman change her physical appearance for him even before he has decided if he's marrying her? As in, what right does he have to demand this, and why would she? What would be her motivation/incentive? Just asking.

Why would she do husband/fiance things for him when he's clearly not a husband/fiance yet, but just a potential suitor at best?

Not looking to argue/debate, just asking. Apologies if it sounds offensive to someone.

The response above from 123x is fairly reasonable.

I hope my wife never reads this, but before marriage, I asked my wife, who at that time was otherwise very good in her aqeeda, akhlaq, and azadari (my three things that I wanted as my cores), to commit to practicing religious hijab as opposed to the cultural hijab that she was used to, she happily agreed, improved on it and off we proceeded to Nikah a few months later. She obviously asked me to improve a few things too, one of them to improve my gym appearance. Nothing of material kind but she had a longer list than I had and we both complied before committing to Nikah.

What I’m suggesting is it’s perfectly fine to ask your potential spouse/love interest to improve and be committed to certain things that would help add true value to the marriage.

Lastly learning of so many couples complaining here on intimacy incompatibility or non-desirable habits’ discontinuation after marriage, never marry a person who doesn’t take your priorities regarding them seriously. Our deen allows us to be intimate only with the person(s) who is our spouse, there is no other way off of it, so those who don’t take this mutual physical attractiveness in consideration for marriage, aren’t mature enough yet to even be married.

As far as marriage being a project in itself of collective self improvement, that’s for another day topic.

Al-Zayddiyah · November 15

8 hours ago, Irfani313 said:

to commit to practicing religious hijab as opposed to the cultural hijab

OP sort of needs to define what changes he wants to see as the inverse of this could occur if he suggests that to her, as it is a bit vague.

Al-Zayddiyah · November 15

by that I mean for her to take greater care in her appearance

AbdusSibtayn · November 16

18 hours ago, 123xo said:

Salam Abdus, not sure why you took what i suggested to OP as demanding.
I think he should be clear and for him to share what he's sharing with us but rather with her as she's the main character in this scenario. She doesn't need to change if she doesn't want to nor does he need to pressure her but if she's invested in him she'd want to better herself. It's normal for couples to communicate about their wants, needs and expectations of one another otherwise how are you supposed to be in a satisfied fulfilled relationship if you are not completely satisfied with your spouse? Plus the issues he has with her appearance are something she has control over and can enhance if she took care of herself, it's not like he's saying i don't like how far apart her eyes are ? (Which she has no control over).

Anyways i hope i didnt offend you or anyone else either.

xo

Wassalam,

My wording might have been off the mark; I intended to mean something mellower than 'demand', maybe something like 'ask' or 'request'.

Granted that all that's been said is correct, but doesn't their potential marriage atleast need to stand a chance for her to be invested in changing those things?

A hypothetical scenario-

The prospective groom: " I think you'd look great if you lost some weight and tended to your appearance a bit more. "

The prospective bride: "Okay, but why should I make those changes for him when he's not even sure if he wants to marry me yet? We're not even engaged, he's just a suitor. "

15 hours ago, Al-Zayddiyah said:

Salam sis,

The key thing here is, they aren't a couple, they are courting (not married) and therefore he cant really ask her to beautify herself. Furthermore, as a religious woman she likely is not beautifying herself to avoid tabarujj, there's a line between tabarujj and cleanliness which is crossed by so many women nowadays that trying to maintain taqwa in such issues has become increasingly difficult. Another thing is, issues of attractiveness need to be handled with sensitivity because the thought of not being attractive to your own husband really tanks a woman's self worth.

Ahsant, you said it better than I could have done. Although, apart from tabarruj and the woman's sense of self-worth, my concern was, why would the prospective bride even consider it worthwhile to change things about herself when the one requesting those changes is not even committed to her yet?

Although, a point of clarification that needs to be made is, in our (twelver) fiqh, if a couple are looking to get married, then the suitor and his family can see the prospective wife without hijab (although not with beautification), even several times, and this is not considered tabarruj.

AbdusSibtayn · November 16

11 hours ago, Irfani313 said:

The response above from 123x is fairly reasonable.

I hope my wife never reads this, but before marriage, I asked my wife, who at that time was otherwise very good in her aqeeda, akhlaq, and azadari (my three things that I wanted as my cores), to commit to practicing religious hijab as opposed to the cultural hijab that she was used to, she happily agreed, improved on it and off we proceeded to Nikah a few months later. She obviously asked me to improve a few things too, one of them to improve my gym appearance. Nothing of material kind but she had a longer list than I had and we both complied before committing to Nikah.

What I’m suggesting is it’s perfectly fine to ask your potential spouse/love interest to improve and be committed to certain things that would help add true value to the marriage.

Lastly learning of so many couples complaining here on intimacy incompatibility or non-desirable habits’ discontinuation after marriage, never marry a person who doesn’t take your priorities regarding them seriously. Our deen allows us to be intimate only with the person(s) who is our spouse, there is no other way off of it, so those who don’t take this mutual physical attractiveness in consideration for marriage, aren’t mature enough yet to even be married.

As far as marriage being a project in itself of collective self improvement, that’s for another day topic.

Thank you for your detailed response bhaijaan.

The catch, however, is that both of you were invested in the relationship to some degree and saw a future together, and were somewhat convinced that you're ultimately headed towards marriage.

What I am asking is, what if such demands are made even before this stage? Why would either party be invested?

123xo · November 16

3 hours ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

Although, a point of clarification that needs to be made is, in our (twelver) fiqh, if a couple are looking to get married, then the suitor and his family can see the prospective wife without hijab (although not with beautification), even several times, and this is not considered tabarruj.

Yess this is so important ! Hijabis look so pretty at home without the hijab and conservative outting clothing! like it would be over for the other half naked girlies outside if they see us

Also this reminds me of this girl that works at the all ladies gym i used to go to, i live in a dominantly Arab area in Sydney, there was this one girl that i personally never thought was pretty at all to me she was on the lower scale of average till one day when she took our spin class instead of the other lady that normally does spin classes and this was the first time i have seen her without hijab, it's strictly an all ladies gym however this girl never took off her hijab while in there and always wore super oversized windbreakers/jumpers she was rather on the more conservative side even the way she did her hijab was pretty traditional anyways when i saw her without hijab it's like i was looking at a completely diff girl lol she was so pretty! So yes moral of story the girl OP is talking about might be more attractive than what she looks like when she goes outside lol

Maisam Haider · November 20

On 11/12/2024 at 5:10 PM, Abu Hadi said:

At the same time, if that other 1/3 isn't there, the marriage will be difficult. I am not saying it will be impossible and some brothers and sisters have gotten thru this. I just think you should know that without this 1/3 you are in for a difficult time.

Yes. I think in some cases, however rare they may be, marriage may not be synonymous with sexual intimacy. There can be different reasons why some people do get married but there is no sexual relationship within that marriage. It may be completely non-existent. These sort of marriages are difficult but yet some couples are able to live like that. One reason can be asexuality. If both husband and wife have no sexual urges at all, but they are otherwise normal, they can still live a happily married yet sexless life. Sex is not obligatory in marriage anyway and if both parents agree to living an asexual life, then it can happen.

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