Slavery vote in California

[Haji 2003]

Involuntary servitude maintained for prisoners

[mahmood8726]

10 minutes ago, Haji 2003 said:

Involuntary servitude maintained for prisoners

Isn't slavery legal for prisoners in America under the constitution? 

[Haji 2003]

On 11/7/2024 at 8:45 AM, mahmood8726 said:

Isn't slavery legal for prisoners in America under the constitution? 

I think it is.

Quite a few people replying to that tweet to the effect that if someone has done a crime then they should 'pay' via servitude.

 

This reminds me of the following:

Quote

OPI manufactures license plates for the entire state of Ohio. Currently this is one of our larger operations, where we employ approximately 75 incarcerated adults and five staff members at Lebanon Correctional.

https://opi.ohio.gov/know-the-program/products-and-services/license-plates

 

It's all fine and dandy unless the justice system is unfair/racist etc.

[Panzerwaffe]

Tragic but It sure beats the abhorrent misuse of non criminal labor in gulf states and generally the prison conditions in most of Asia Africa Latin America 

not a perfect system by any means but work in progress 

California needs a right center govt but not far right 

Edited November 20 by Panzerwaffe

[mahmood8726]

6 hours ago, Panzerwaffe said:

Tragic but It sure beats the abhorrent misuse of non criminal labor in gulf states and generally the prison conditions in most of Asia Africa Latin America 

not a perfect system by any means but work in progress 

California needs a right center govt but not far right 

Why did I know you would make such a comment and try and bring up some foreign countries that treat people or prisoners worse than in American prisons? How is this relevant to this other than minimizing how bad this is? That's the only point of making such a comment. No one here cares what's happening in timbaktu when it comes to the subject of Californian prisons maintaining slavery, this is soley about Californian prisons maintaining slavery, other countries should barely have any relevance here. Please don't turn this into a discussion about how bad some countries have it and we should shut up/be grateful about this because it's a "work in progress". 

 

The reality is American prisons are not great, they are beyond tragic, where you have hundreds of stories and instances of prisoners starving and eating toothpaste to not starve or the rampant crimes that happen there, etc...

This is especially the case with prisons in California, they're notoriously brutal and horrible, they're often described as unconstitutional, meaning even by American standards they're horrible. Which is why maintaining slavery there is beyond tragic.

 

No making California center right, won't fix much or anything, California's prison system was seen as bad since decades ago.

Edited November 20 by mahmood8726

[Abu Hadi]

Its not exactly slavery, it's a exemption from the California minimum wage law for prisoners. 

The prisoners do work inside the prison, like cook, clean, make cloths, etc, but they can't call them employees because this would subject the prisons to the minimum wage requirement and other requirements for employees, like paid leave, etc. So they call it 'involuntary servitude' but it's actually voluntary. You can work in the prison if you want but the wage is like I think $5 per hour or something much less than the minimum wage in California which I think now is $20 per hour. 

[mahmood8726]

48 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

Its not exactly slavery, it's a exemption from the California minimum wage law for prisoners. 

The prisoners do work inside the prison, like cook, clean, make cloths, etc, but they can't call them employees because this would subject the prisons to the minimum wage requirement and other requirements for employees, like paid leave, etc. So they call it 'involuntary servitude' but it's actually voluntary. You can work in the prison if you want but the wage is like I think $5 per hour or something much less than the minimum wage in California which I think now is $20 per hour. 

Yes and no. I actually remeber there being actual slavery in California prisons, as in forced to work as fire fighters for example and the minimum wage for jobs in California prisons are mere cents, not 5$. 

[mahmood8726]

1 hour ago, Abu Hadi said:

Its not exactly slavery, it's a exemption from the California minimum wage law for prisoners. 

The prisoners do work inside the prison, like cook, clean, make cloths, etc, but they can't call them employees because this would subject the prisons to the minimum wage requirement and other requirements for employees, like paid leave, etc. So they call it 'involuntary servitude' but it's actually voluntary. You can work in the prison if you want but the wage is like I think $5 per hour or something much less than the minimum wage in California which I think now is $20 per hour. 

I just checked, the minimum wage is usually in California prisons at 74 cents an hour, which is less than a dollar. 74 cents is defenetly higher than the few cents I remeber, so that's an improvement.

And I just checked, California allows prisons to force their prisoners to do forced labor. It's actually what the word means involuntary servitude.

 

 

Edit: forgot to add, I get where your comming from here, you have a point here somewhat. They actually allow involuntary servitude as in forced labor(you have no choice) and they don't want to change that law, because if they do, they won't be able to enslave the prisoners and won't be able pay them only 75 cents. 

 

Edited November 21 by mahmood8726

[PureExistence1]

Salaam, 

Well I think the biggest problem I see with the situation is that prisons are big business. They are privately owned, and I'm not going to say who makes up the majority of the owners of these institutions, but, it certainly does seem like a good business move to keep as many people incarcerated as possible, thereby by effectuating  almost close to free labor.

That's all I'm going to say.

 

 

[PureExistence1]

On 11/11/2024 at 12:27 AM, Haji 2003 said:

Quite a few people replying to that tweet to the effect that if someone has done a crime then they should 'pay' via servitude.

 

Salaam, these people arent aware of the larger picture of the prison system and maybe don't care--shallow, uninterested in thinking/knowing that its a major money maker and the owners benefit off the courts sending and keeping people there.

I get the point about "do the crime, do the time", but the fact that what the owners do with the prisoners is beyond insidious and done out of greed, not for in-prison rehabilitation (thats a joke for the larger part) or to produce responsible, productive members of society, in fact, its quite the opposite where people come out stronger and more capable criminals to run the streets and commit even more crimes which almost guarantees they will be back again-making the prison owners more cash.

You know the saying, you become like the 3 people you spend the most time with... Only under exceptional circumstances to prisoners find people that are actually mentors or people that can lead them on the right path and when they get out, actually do good and get on the right path. Otherwise they're practically programmed to be back again based on being around others with the same or worse mentality.

 

[Panzerwaffe]

20 hours ago, mahmood8726 said:

Why did I know you would make such a comment and try and bring up some foreign countries that treat people or prisoners worse than in American prisons? How is this relevant to this other than minimizing how bad this is? That's the only point of making such a comment. No one here cares what's happening in timbaktu when it comes to the subject of Californian prisons maintaining slavery, this is soley about Californian prisons maintaining slavery, other countries should barely have any relevance here. Please don't turn this into a discussion about how bad some countries have it and we should shut up/be grateful about this because it's a "work in progress". 

 

The reality is American prisons are not great, they are beyond tragic, where you have hundreds of stories and instances of prisoners starving and eating toothpaste to not starve or the rampant crimes that happen there, etc...

This is especially the case with prisons in California, they're notoriously brutal and horrible, they're often described as unconstitutional, meaning even by American standards they're horrible. Which is why maintaining slavery there is beyond tragic.

 

No making California center right, won't fix much or anything, California's prison system was seen as bad since decades ago.

Exactly by comparison to Middle East esp they are heaven.

human rights are much more respected in the west as compared to other countries 

You are right brother