War in Heaven (Islamic Viewpoint)

[Eddie Mecca]

Does Islam mention the 'War in Heaven' referenced in the Book of Revelation? For those unfamiliar here's the Wikipedia page

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Heaven

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 10/10/2024 at 10:50 PM, Eddie Mecca said:

Does Islam mention the 'War in Heaven' referenced in the Book of Revelation?

Salam surely it's not mentioned in Islam which clearly according to Islam Satan/Shaitan has been from Jinn which has refused from bowing to prophet Adam (عليه السلام) so therefore concept of considering him as angel is void also in Islam  angels never disobey  or rebel against Allah which they just have mentioned from past experience from previous creations on earth  that human being will shed blood on earth by disobeying & rebelling against Allah so therefore they have said that they are better servants of Allah who never disobey  or rebel against Allah which Allah has shown  a great sign which they have been unaware of it which has been putting Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) in physical form on earth in back of prophet Adam (عليه السلام) which Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) & their devout followers will be more obedient & loyal to Allah while they have ability of disobeying & rebelling against Allah  while angels have not this freedom of choice while both of humans & jinns have freedom of choice  which Christians have mistaken  Jinns with angels so therefore they have created fabricated/fantasy story of rebelling angels in heaven by mistaking Satan/Shaitan  as an angel  . 

Edited October 14, 2024 by Hameedeh
typo

[Eddie Mecca]

On 10/12/2024 at 3:08 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

angels never disobey

1.) What about Hārūt wa-Mārūt?

2.) Also, do we (i.e. Muslims) know the identity of the group of angels that had the dialogue w/ Allah and replied, "Wilt thou place therein (i.e. Earth) one who will do harm therein and shed blood, while we, we hymn Thy praise and sanctify Thy Name?" This is not merely a "We hear and we obey" sort of reply...this particular group of angels are questioning Allah's judgment (albeit in a very polite and respectful manner)...but they're being assertive and challenging Allah's decree to a certain extent...they seem concerned...it seems like they're exercising a certain degree of freewill here

Edited October 14, 2024 by Eddie Mecca
Mistake

[Eddie Mecca]

@Ashvazdanghe, salaam...read this and give me your opinion please...

"Asharite scholar al-Baydawi also added that "certain angels are not infallible even if infallibility is prevalent among them — just as certain human beings are infallible but fallibility is prevalent among them." 545  Similarly al-Anbiya (21:29) stresses out that if an angel were to claim divinity for himself, he would be sentenced to hell, implying that angels might commit such a sin. This verse is generally associated with Iblis (Satan), who is generally thought of as an angel in these reports. In response to the reference to Iblis as "one of the jinn" somewhere else in the Quran, an alternative translation reads "became one of the jinn", indicating that took away his angelic qualities. Yet others say that the term does not refer to the (genus of) jinn, but calls Iblis and his angels "al-jinn" due to their origin from jannah. The presence of two fallen angels referred to as Harut and Marut, further hindered their complete absolution from potentially sinning. : 548 

Surah 2:30 portrays the angels arguing with God that the creation of Adam will cause disruption and suffering. The implication of the text is that Iblis does not part ways with God because he disbelieved but because he has a positive, though misguided, motive behind the creation of Adam. In this context, the term kāfir refers to "disobedience" not "unbelief", as Iblis does not deny the existence of God. In his commentary, İsmail Hakkı elaborates that only the "angels of the earth" (ملائكة الارض), who previously battled the jinn, were disputing. Due to their abode on earth, their perception of heavenly wisdom is veiled, and thus, unlike the angels in the "higher realms", were subject to error. Among these earthly angels were also Harut and Marut and Iblis (ʿAzāzīl). Just like the jinn and devils, the fallen angels are a source of temptation for humans." - Wikipedia 

Edited October 14, 2024 by Eddie Mecca
Mistake

[Ashvazdanghe]

1 hour ago, Eddie Mecca said:

1.) What about Hārūt wa-Mārūt?

Salam 

Hārūt wa-Mārūt have came to eath by command of Allah to teach people to neutralize evil magic by giving knowledge of magic which story about rhie disobeying has no Isalmic basis which story of their disobeying has inserted from Jewish Israʼiliyyat which have been inserted by ex jewsih Rabbis likewie Ka'b al Ahbar into sunni sources .

 

1 hour ago, Eddie Mecca said:

2.) Also, do we (i.e. Muslims) know the identity of the group of angels that had the dialogue w/ Allah and replied, "Wilt thou place therein (i.e. Earth) one who will do harm therein and shed blood, while we, we hymn Thy praise and sanctify Thy Name?" This is not merely a "We hear and we obey" sort of reply...this particular group of angels are questioning Allah's judgment (albeit in a very polite and respectful manner)...but they're being assertive and challenging Allah's decree to a certain extent...they seem concerned...it seems like they're exercising a certain degree of freewill here

It shows power of reasoning & intelligence & knowledge of everything that previously happened  of angels in similar fashion of Artificial Intelligence while they could ask reason behind decision of Allah which when they Allah has thought names of Ahlubayt (عليه السلام) to prophet Adam as greatest sign so then they have confessed to superiority of Allah by showing a great sign which they have not any knowledge about it so therefore questioning for understanding by angels doesn't mean challenging Allah decree to a certain extent ... They have seen concerned because they have not access to hidden knowledge of Allah ..... their limited free wil  doesn't cause punishment or reward for them which in their limited free will they can choose between doing multiple task as Abandoning the Better (Tark al-Awla) which sometimes may cause punishment for abandoning the good which for prophets & infallible Imams it means doing injustice ظلم فخ to themselves which although is not a sin but they have asked Istighfar from it due to having free will while angels have too limited free for postponing  a task between multiple tasks .

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Abandoning the better or tark al-awlā (Arabic: تَرْک الأوْلی) is to do something good and abandon what is better to do.

 

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Meaning

"Abandoning the better" (tark al-awla) takes place when one has two options; one is good, and the other is better, but they do what is good and abandon what is better. The term was not used in the Qur'an and hadiths; rather, it was used by Muslim scholars. ^[1]

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Abandoning_the_Better_(Tark_al-Awla)

 

[Ashvazdanghe]

5 minutes ago, Eddie Mecca said:

"Asharite scholar al-Baydawi

This is corrupted sunni belief which has no value in Shia Islam which is also against holy Quran & teachings of Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) which this nonsense has been derives from corrupt Jewish  belief which they have categorized angels to their enemies & friends which according to Jews archangel Jibrail has been their enemy so therefore according to them some angels could be corrupted because God has weaker influence on earth  than skies  while according to teachings of Ahlulbayt Allah has totall dominance which there is no weakness in him & his dominance while Asharite in similar fashion of Jews believe that dominance of God in some places is weaker than other places so his creatures likewise angels maybe corrupted due to weakness in power & dominance of God.