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In the Name of God بسم الله

War in Gaza and Shia Sunni Sectarian Relations

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Salaam everyone, I have been thinking about how the War in Gaza is effecting Muslims on a psychological level. More specifically, how may the war in Gaza be bringing the Shia and Sunni closer together or farther apart? I am noticing ways in which some of the Shia and Sunnis are coming closer together and I am noticing ways in which there may be an increase in tensions between the 2 groups due to the war. 

For example, on the Shia side wondering why the Syrian Army and the Saudi Arabia army can fight Hezbollah and the Houthis in particular but not Israel may be making it harder to overlook some other social nuances. On the Sunni side, some people are accusing the Shias fighting for Palestine as seeking only to promote their ideology in the Middle East and not fighting because they care about Palestinians. This can lead to Shia feeling even more isolated and under appreciated. Also, I can see how some Sunnis are more accepting of Shia for looking out for the oppressed in Palestine.

What can be done to bring all Muslims closer together and heal sectarian differences in light of the tensions posed on the Muslim World due to the War in Gaza. Please share. 

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32 minutes ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

I have a social experiment to suggest- if you can go to some random Sunni mosques and interview the congregants there about this issue, you'll be able to see the real picture for yourself. 

Majority of our Sunni brethren don't care, because if they cared you will see in masses of support or talk about it. Actually majority of Sunnis don't even care about Gaza either, if they cared they will pressure their government to act. It is sad reality that even arch-enemy will not make them to unite with us.

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3 hours ago, Azadeh307 said:

What can be done to bring all Muslims closer together and heal sectarian differences in light of the tensions posed on the Muslim World due to the War in Gaza. Please share. 

I think the best thing right now to do really is to focus on our own jihad al nafs and purify ourselves first and help our Shias in their matters to bring them all close to Imam Mehdi (عليه السلام). The reason is that if we don't do this, we will have generations that will lose their imaan and leave Islam and even have disunity among ourselves.

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5 hours ago, Azadeh307 said:

the Syrian Army and the Saudi Arabia army can fight Hezbollah and the Houthis in particular but not Israel

Syrian Army and Hezbollah fought one another? What did I miss? When did this happen? Saudis fought the Houthis...yes, this is correct

5 hours ago, Azadeh307 said:

What can be done to bring all Muslims closer together and heal sectarian differences in light of the tensions posed on the Muslim World due to the War in Gaza. Please share. 

We must walk a delicate balance between Islamic idealism and realism...our scholars have made Islamic unification an absolute must as per the Qurʾānic injunction ("And hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together and do not become divided")...enemies of Islam are working night and day to foster enmity in our hearts for one another...to a large degree they (enemies) have succeeded...since 2003 Islamic unity has taken a major blow...an exception to this rule was Hezbollah's victory against the Zionist apartheid entity in 2006...Hezbollah were hailed as superheroes in the Sunni Arab street...this is proof positive that the sectarian animosity isn't perpetual and isn't inately ingrained in the absolute sense...personally I haven't visited a Sunni mosque since 2009...I've had to end forty year old friendships...my advice is to work on self-purification and attempt to unite with anyone who wants to consolidate under the banner of truth...many so-called Sunnis have been duped by Wahhabism...Sufi-Shi'i bonds are intensifying because traditional Sunnis are finally realizing the threat that Wahhabism poses...consider uniting Twelvers and Zaydis since that bridge already exists...reach out to our Ismaili brethren...reach out to Middle Eastern Christians...reach out to Ash'aris and Maturidis...reach out to secular leftists

Edited by Eddie Mecca
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2 hours ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

The Syrian Army is not fighting the Houthis.

Sorry, that was a bad typo on my part. I meant the Free Syrian Army (opposing the side Hezbollah was on in the Syrian Civil War) not the Syrian Army. And was referring to the Saudi led war in Yemen. I will have to read up about the Nasibis.. I am not informed about them. I am wondering what sense Sunnis can make about the Free Syrian Army not involving themselves in the war on Gaza. Most Sunnis I know support or supported the Free Syrian Army in the Syrian Civil War. 

The Sunni political commentator, Sami Hamdi has been quite vocal against the Houthis and Shia involvement in the Gaza war and it has been toxic in my opinion. 

2 hours ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

She is under intense mental pressure and agony, close to a breakdown as she can neither come out of the closet nor withstand the jeering. 

I have a social experiment to suggest- if you can go to some random Sunni mosques and interview the congregants there about this issue, you'll be able to see the real picture for yourself. 

5 hours ago, Azadeh307 said:
Sami Hamdi
M

May Allah make it easy for this woman and increase her rank for her sufferings. Inshallah I can continue this experiment. I brought it up to one small group of Sunnis and they believed the Houthis were in the wrong because they killed other Muslims. They also believe that by faith alone justice will prevail so no need to do anything. Another Sunni told me there didn't used to be as much tension between the Shia and Sunni until the Syrian Civil War. Yet, these could be isolated opinions and I wish I could understand what their perspective is. In various chat groups I am in I have only heard one person mention what happened in Lebanon this week and no one responded. 

As a Shia growing up in America and living in America my personal experience is the sectarian tensions are higher than ever before that I have experienced. 

Edited by Azadeh307
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11 minutes ago, Eddie Mecca said:

Syrian Army and Hezbollah fought one another? What did I miss?

Sorry, my mistake... it was a typo... I meant the Free Syrian Army, not the Syrian Army.

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35 minutes ago, Azadeh307 said:

Another Sunni told me there didn't used to be as much tension between the Shia and Sunni until the Syrian Civil War.

He (she) is right about this...tension was almost nonexistent during 60's, 70's, 80's etc...problems intensified during the late 90's and onward...Salafi propaganda gained traction after the assassination of King Faisal in 1975...it took 20 - 25 years to gain maximum momentum

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44 minutes ago, Eddie Mecca said:

He (she) is right about this...tension was almost nonexistent during 60's, 70's, 80's etc...problems intensified during the late 90's and onward...Salafi propaganda gained traction after the assassination of King Faisal in 1975...it took 20 - 25 years to gain maximum momentum

I am sure propaganda increased the problems but perhaps it also gained traction because of the way Hafez al-Assad governed for all those decades.

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14 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

Majority of our Sunni brethren don't care, because if they cared you will see in masses of support or talk about it. Actually majority of Sunnis don't even care about Gaza either, if they cared they will pressure their government to act. It is sad reality that even arch-enemy will not make them to unite with us.

It is more than just not caring, most of them are actively hostile. 

The neurotic, congenital hatred for the 'Rafida' bred into them since generations will make them throw anyone and anything under the bus if the 'Rafida' are on the same side of the fence. The Gazans and Bayt al-Maqdis are just specimens. 

This is one question that I ask them often- 'Okay, the Rafida are double-dealing with the Palestinians for their own ulterior motives, but what exactly has the Sunni world done militarily and logistically to help their fellow Sunnis in Palestine? Don't talk about tossing an occasional food packet or building an odd hospital or school; their problem is the occupation, which can bomb whatever you build back to pulver. Tell me, what have you done to rid them of the occupation?'

Since none of them have any answer, they throw a fit, froth at the mouth and go on a diatribe about the 'evil Rafida'. 

Side note: Have you seen anyone from the Palestinian diaspora protest for the  Shi'a in Lebanon, just like we protested for them everywhere in the world? The least they can do is to acknowledge the sacrifice of those who are taking rocket and missile hits for them. 

If you see them protest for the Shi'a in Lebanon anywhere, then please let me know, because I haven't seen that anywhere. 

And if you haven't seen any such protests from the diaspora Palestinians anywhere, then think why you haven't seen so. 

I will desist from expanding further and bite my tongue lest I be accused of spreading 'disunity' and 'sectarianism'; my 'disunity' is just the reality which people refuse to see. 

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1 hour ago, Azadeh307 said:

Sorry, that was a bad typo on my part. I meant the Free Syrian Army (opposing the side Hezbollah was on in the Syrian Civil War) not the Syrian Army. And was referring to the Saudi led war in Yemen. I will have to read up about the Nasibis.. I am not informed about them. I am wondering what sense Sunnis can make about the Free Syrian Army not involving themselves in the war on Gaza. Most Sunnis I know support or supported the Free Syrian Army in the Syrian Civil War. 

No problem.

The 'Free Syrian Army' was just another rebel front for those 'moderate rebels' who did not want to align politically or militarily with either ISIS or al-Qaeda affiliates and served as a benign umbrella for those Sunni rebels and rebel sympathizers who did want the stigma of being seen as al-Qaeda supporters in the international circles. Then there is also the element of factional infighting within the rebel ranks (al-Julani  in Syria was incensed when Baghdadi unilaterally declared his Caliphate in June 2014). Although ideologically they don't differ much from the other rebel groups and have the same visceral hatred of the Shi'a and non Muslim religious minorities. Which is why they are a popular choice among the Sunnis (except for Idlib, which is a traditional al-Qaeda stronghold). 

I don't know what the official stance is, but while I was on Twitter, I used to see posts from their cadre advocating a joint Sunni-Jewish alliance to finish off the Rafida. Irrespective of whether or not this is their party line, the sentiment is surely present among the rank and file. 

1 hour ago, Azadeh307 said:

The Sunni political commentator, Sami Hamdi has been quite vocal against the Houthis and Shia involvement in the Gaza war and it has been toxic in my opinion. 

Hamdi is a planted stooge, lol. He is a typical representative of the group that I was talking about. His one and only brief and mandate from his paymasters is to galvanize diasporic Sunni opinion in the Anglophone West against the Shi'a and Iran. 

Look carefully and you'll see a number of freshly minted 'intellectuals' on various platforms surreptitiously pushing the same agenda. 

Be very wary of any 'activist'  who shoots to fame all of a sudden, especially in the Western media and academic circles; he's almost invariably being buoyed by sinister forces. 

99% of the English-literate Muslims in the world did not know Hamdi before October 2022, and now he's this huge sensation all of a sudden. 

1 hour ago, Azadeh307 said:

. I brought it up to one small group of Sunnis and they believed the Houthis were in the wrong because they killed other Muslims. They also believe that by faith alone justice will prevail so no need to do anything. Another Sunni told me there didn't used to be as much tension between the Shia and Sunni until the Syrian Civil War. Yet, these could be isolated opinions and I wish I could understand what their perspective is. In various chat groups I am in I have only heard one person mention what happened in Lebanon this week and no one responded. 

Lol, you will not be able elicit any response from them, and if you do, it's going to be the same maniacal repetition of the 'evil Rafida' trope. 

 

1 hour ago, Azadeh307 said:

Another Sunni told me there didn't used to be as much tension between the Shia and Sunni until the Syrian Civil War.

This I agree with. Tensions have risen lately. 

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37 minutes ago, Dreamcatcher said:

I am sure propaganda increased the problems but perhaps it also gained traction because of the way Hafez al-Assad governed for all those decades.

The Assad family atleast ensured Sunni participation in the government. The bureaucracy and the army remained mostly Sunni, most of the party functionaries in the Syrian Ba'ath were Sunnis; Syria is formally secular but for all practical purposes Sunni Islam is the state religion, with the Naqshbandi Sufi order enjoying a somewhat official position since Shaykh Ahmad Kaftaru, its contemporary head, was made the grand mufti, and the tradition continues with his successor and disciple, Shaykh Badr al-Din Ahmad Hassoun inheriting his mentor's position. The ruling family itself is practically Sunni, with most of Hafez's children being married into Sunni families (most notably Bashar himself) and his grandchildren being raised Sunni. 

These policies paid off and the mostly Sunni (nearly 70-80%) Syrian Arab Army remained loyal to the government, first during the Hama uprising during Hafez's own tenure, and now during the civil war under his son and successor. 

Now contrast this with the Shi'i experience under the Ba'athi rule in Iraq. 

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31 minutes ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

Side note: Have you seen anyone from the Palestinian diaspora protest for the  Shi'a in Lebanon, just like we protested for them everywhere in the world? The least they can do is to acknowledge the sacrifice of those who are taking rocket and missile hits for them. 

In Finland we have one in this Saturday that I and my family are going. But unfortunate I don't think it will be that wide spread in world.

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Just now, Abu Nur said:

In Finland we have one in this Saturday that I and my family are going. But unfortunate I don't think it will be that wide spread in world.

Organized/attended by Sunnis/Palestinians? 

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18 minutes ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

Hamdi is a planted stooge, lol. He is a typical representative of the group that I was talking about. His one and only brief and mandate from his paymasters is to galvanize diasporic Sunni opinion in the Anglophone West against the Shi'a and Iran. 

Very well said.

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14 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

I think the best thing right now to do really is to focus on our own jihad al nafs and purify ourselves first

Salam respectfully  it's agenda which has been promoted  by some anti Shia Wahabist likewise Mufti Menk & etc who pretend that are not  anti shia although are in line with KSA against both of Shia & Iran which since initiating OCT7  they have promoted isolation from community & practicing so called "our own jihad al nafs and purify ourselves first " by ignoring atrocities of Sunni Muslims in Gaza  & not defending them against Zionists ; but on the other hand in shia viewpoint "Jihad al Nafs and purification" doesn't mean isolation from muslim community which shias who are actively are defending Sunni muslims in gaza are practicing  Jihad al Nafs and purification " during active jihad against Zionists likewise Hizbullah & Houthi fighters .

14 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

help our Shias in their matters to bring them all close to Imam Mehdi (عليه السلام).

It comes based on procedure of Hizbullah & houthies & IRGC (Quds force) not passive isolation in name of  practicing Jihad al Nafs and purification.

14 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

we will have generations that will lose their imaan and leave Islam and even have disunity among ourselves.

We only can stop it through active Jihad against both of apparent zionist enemy & Jihad al Nafs and purification simultaneously .

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10 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam respectfully  it's agenda which has been promoted  by some anti Shia Wahabist likewise Mufti Menk & etc who pretend that are not  anti shia although are in line with KSA against both of Shia & Iran which since initiating OCT7  they have promoted isolation from community & practicing so called "our own jihad al nafs and purify ourselves first " by ignoring atrocities of Sunni Muslims in Gaza & not defending them against Zionists ; but on the other hand in shia viewpoint "Jihad al Nafs and purification" doesn't mean isolation from muslim community which shias who are actively are defending Sunni muslims in gaza are practicing  Jihad al Nafs and purification " during active jihad against Zionists likewise Hizbullah & Houthi fighters .

Brother, I have no idea how my statement is related to what you just said. My statement is based on Ahlulbayt teaching who want us first to go to path of purifing ourselves so that we will become the guidance and attraction for others.

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47 minutes ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

Side note: Have you seen anyone from the Palestinian diaspora protest for the  Shi'a in Lebanon, just like we protested for them everywhere in the world? The least they can do is to acknowledge the sacrifice of those who are taking rocket and missile hits for them. 

If you see them protest for the Shi'a in Lebanon anywhere, them please let me know, because I haven't seen that anywhere. 

And if you haven't seen any such protests from the diaspora Palestinians anywhere, then think why you haven't seen so

Salam respectfully this is comparing apples with oranges which nobody in shia community expect from Palestinian to do protest in their favor because they are experiencing  most horrible atrocities by zionists which duty of every muslim specially Shia muslims is defending them against Zionists which shia muslims in Lebanon knew that they will face such difficulties due their support from Palestinians although they could remain neutral about condition of Palestinians so therefore they wouldn't face these difficulties but they have chosen to defend Palestinians on their free will although of facing these problems without expecting anything in response just based on doctrine that they are your brothers in faith or same as you in creation   .

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11 hours ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

It is more than just not caring, most of them are actively hostile. 

The neurotic, congenital hatred for the 'Rafida' bred into them since generations

Hostile is exact word for it. This hatred for Shias is everywhere. When I started working again in 2018 (in the US), I was with four Christian or secular workers including one of the managers, when a woman from another Department came up and got into my face, asking me if I was a Sunni or Shia. I thought she must be a Muslim with no hijab, because why would she even care or be asking me that question? I said "I'm Muslim" because I didn't want to get into a confrontation with her during the training phase of my new job. She asked me again if I was Sunni or Shia and I said "I'm just Muslim" and she walked away like she was mad. She was acting very rude that day.

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3 hours ago, ireallywannaknow said:

The same group that organizes the regular protests in my area had one last night in support of Lebanon. There were Palestinians there. 

That's a welcome change. 

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1 hour ago, Hameedeh said:

Hostile is exact word for it. This hatred for Shias is everywhere. When I started working again in 2018 (in the US), I was with four Christian or secular workers including one of the managers, when a woman from another Department came up and got into my face, asking me if I was a Sunni or Shia. I thought she must be a Muslim with no hijab, because why would she even care or be asking me that question? I said "I'm Muslim" because I didn't want to get into a confrontation with her during the training phase of my new job. She asked me again if I was Sunni or Shia and I said "I'm just Muslim" and she walked away like she was mad. She was acting very rude that day.

Please be wary of them. There have been instances of hate crimes against the Shi'a in the West too. 

I try to steer clear of them as far as I can help it. Here in my country, they have been hemmed in from all sides by Hindu extremists, but their diabolism hasn't died down in the slightest. The previous year there were visuals of these people vandalizing Imambargahs and attacking Ashura processions doing rounds (fun fact: they weren't Salafi)  If this is their temerity now when they are on a political backfoot, I dread the day they'll be in power. 

This is why many Shi'a in my region, even though they don't like the Hindu supremacists, feel compelled to vote for them because they fear the worst if these t€rr0r!sts come to power, and rightfully so. 

I don't know of a single Shi'a around me who has been to a Sunni religious place (mosque or Islamic centre) and has felt welcome there. Some get death stares, yet others face angry confrontations (like what you described in your post) and there are yet others who are insulted, even physically assaulted and asked to leave. 

Edited by AbdusSibtayn
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:salam:

20 hours ago, Azadeh307 said:

More specifically, how may the war in Gaza be bringing the Shia and Sunni closer together or farther apart?

I would say you have three camps :

The mazloomin of the area : Lebanon and Palestine -> They are on a common front and the past year's struggle has definitely tighten ties between them. Previous tensions like regarding Syrian war probably will be buried after this, and generations to come might hold Hezbollah in high esteem.

They have the support of the pro-Axis (Syria Iraq Yemen Pakistan Aghanistan India)

The accomplices : arabs of the Gulf Monarchies. Although a small portion of the citizens are out spoken in favor of Palestine, their vast majority do not really care because they are born without the right to protest. They are defiant towards the Shia, whom they see as a threat to their comfortable lifestyle. Their ulama label them as Kuffar, or at least second-class Muslims, and declare their struggle illegit. 

Some segments of the Muslim world emulate them, that is the case of the Salafis Wahabis Madkhalis, who are very vocal especially in spreading the filthy fatawa of their Shuyukh.

 

The Muslims of the street : basically all Muslims around the world. Some of them are free thinkers, but many just repeat what they hear.

When there are crucial periods, they tend to side with the majority, like during the Syrian civil war, when they became sympathisers of Daesh against Asad and Hezbollah.

During the war in Gaza in Lebanon, it is hard to predict what their position is, because the influence of the 2nd block above is very powerful. As long as the petro-ulama have their platforms, I think the youth here will still remain defiant towards the Axis. 

 

16 hours ago, Azadeh307 said:

Another Sunni told me there didn't used to be as much tension between the Shia and Sunni until the Syrian Civil War.

During the 2006 war on Lebanon, first saturday they made huge demonstrations in Paris, with people waving green shahada flags, keffieh, in support of Hezbollah, burning israeli flags. Shias shouted in the megaphone, Sunnis responded together. All united. 

My guess is that if there is a demonstration this saturday, there will be many people (with much less climax lol) partly because of what Lebanon has done to help support Palestine during the last 12 months.

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