Authenticity of Al-Khisal

[Shiajuice]

Salaam, brothers and sisters. I understand Al-Khisal is not a book of fiqh but I am wondering about it's authenticity for two reasons: 1) I have come across questionable hadiths as some others here have 2) and I have not been able to find gradings. By no means am I saying that Al-Khisal is totally inauthentic nor am I saying all of our books are completely authentic. There will always be questionable hadiths in any book whether from our Four Books (and more) or their Six Books. Also please bear in mind I am only citing Sunni sources as they are relevant to this particular hadith. To provide context to the first point I will link to a separate previous discussion and provide a reference of my own below:

 

3-233 Al-Hassan ibn Muhammad al-Sakoony al-Mazaki in Kufa narrated that Muhammad ibn Abdullah al-Hazrami quoted Ibrahim ibn Abi Muawiyah, on the authority of his father, on the authority of Al-A’amash, on the authority of Abi Zebyan, “An insane woman who had committed adultery was brought to Umar. Umar order that she be stoned to death. They took her to Ali ibn Abi Talib (MGB). The Imam (MGB) asked, ‘What is going on?’ They said, ‘She is a crazy woman who has committed adultery. Umar has ordered her to be punished.’ The Imam (MGB) said, ‘Do not rush to do so.’ Then the Imam (MGB) told Umar, ‘Don’t you know that three people are not subject to the rules? They are children until they mature, crazy people until they become sane, and people who are asleep until they wake up.” The compiler of the book - may God be pleased with him - said, “This tradition appeared here this way. The original version of this tradition that has been narrated on the authority of the Divine Leaders (MGB) says, ‘When an insane man commits adultery, he should be punished. However, when an insane woman commits adultery she should not be punished. That is because an insane man does the act (of adultery), while an insane woman would be the subject (of adultery).” (Al Khisal, book 4, chapter 185).

 

https://thaqalayn.net/chapter/10/4/185

 

Obviously, this is problematic. Al-Shaykh al-Saduq (رضي الله عنه) says that the original version of the statement mentioned here by our beloved Commander of the Faithful (عليه السلام), immediately of which is corroborated in Abu Dawood (4403) and at-Tirmidhi (1423) in its more usual form on the internet from ahlus-sunnah shown below, was that the sin (zina) of an insane man is punishable whereas the sin of an insane woman is not. The logic laid forth by the author is contradictory and not satisfactory. An insane woman or insane man commits a sin and is not responsible due to the absence of ahliyyah until they gain their senses. Shouldn't the sin, therefore, fall on the sane actor regarding zina involving an insane person? The sane person in this case knowingly has taken advantage of the insane man or woman, who is in a legal state no different from that of a child in terms of ethical and legal responsibilities.

 

Ali ibn Abi Talib (عليه السلام) reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “The pen is lifted from three people: a sleeping person until he awakens, a child until he becomes an adult, and an insane person until he regains his sanity.” (Sunan al-Tirmidhī, 1423)

 

The second point is more simple and can be easily corrected by someone here who has access to more information that I do, namely the absence of gradings for Al-Khisal (perhaps my fault is ignorance). I have not been able to find gradings either from the Thaqalayn online database or other scans of Al-Khisal.

[Dreamcatcher]

Wasalam,

I don't think any book of hadith can be termed 100% sahih, does not mean entire book needs to be rejected. Many of the same aHadith are mentioned in Kitab al-Kafi as well and gradings are present for the same which can be considered too.

More aHadith can be found in Sheikh Suduq's collection Man La Yahduruhu al-Faqih regarding punishment of various offences including Zina and perhaps another Hadith clarifying the same can be found there. I do not know of English translations but the book is present online in Urdu if you search for it. There are aHadith in it that mention if the one doing zina is a 10 year old, hadd will be present on him but less than that of someone baligh. These are also present in Kitab al-Kafi Volume 7.

For the particular Hadith which you are finding trouble with has a detailed version in Kitab al-Kafi Volume 7 under chapter "Baab al-Majnoon" under The Book of Legal Penalties. 

بَابُ الْمَجْنُونِ وَ الْمَجْنُونَةِ يَزْنِيَانِ‌

۱۔

عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ أَبِيهِ عَنِ ابْنِ أَبِي نَجْرَانَ عَنْ عَاصِمِ بْنِ حُمَيْدٍ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ قَيْسٍ عَنْ أَبِي جَعْفَرٍ ع قَالَ قَالَ أَمِيرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ ع‌ فِي امْرَأَةٍ مَجْنُونَةٍ زَنَتْ فَحَبِلَتْ قَالَ هِيَ مِثْلُ السَّائِبَةِ[1] لَا تَمْلِكُ أَمْرَهَا وَ لَيْسَ عَلَيْهَا رَجْمٌ وَ لَا جَلْدٌ وَ لَا نَفْيٌ وَ قَالَ فِي امْرَأَةٍ أَقَرَّتْ عَلَى نَفْسِهَا أَنَّهُ اسْتَكْرَهَهَا رَجُلٌ عَلَى نَفْسِهَا قَالَ هِيَ مِثْلُ السَّائِبَةِ لَا تَمْلِكُ نَفْسَهَا فَلَوْ شَاءَ قَتَلَهَا فَلَيْسَ عَلَيْهَا جَلْدٌ وَ لَا نَفْيٌ وَ لَا رَجْمٌ.

 

۲۔

مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنْ عَلِيِّ بْنِ الْحَكَمِ عَنِ الْعَلَاءِ بْنِ رَزِينٍ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ مُسْلِمٍ عَنْ أَحَدِهِمَا ع‌ فِي امْرَأَةٍ مَجْنُونَةٍ زَنَتْ قَالَ إِنَّهَا لَا تَمْلِكُ أَمْرَهَا وَ لَيْسَ عَلَيْهَا شَيْ‌ءٌ.

۳۔

عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ أَبِيهِ عَنْ عَمْرِو بْنِ عُثْمَانَ عَنْ إِبْرَاهِيمَ بْنِ الْفَضْلِ عَنْ أَبَانِ بْنِ تَغْلِبَ قَالَ قَالَ أَبُو عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع‌ إِذَا زَنَى الْمَجْنُونُ أَوِ الْمَعْتُوهُ جُلِدَ الْحَدَّ وَ إِنْ كَانَ مُحْصَناً رُجِمَ قُلْتُ وَ مَا الْفَرْقُ بَيْنَ الْمَجْنُونِ وَ الْمَجْنُونَةِ وَ الْمَعْتُوهِ وَ الْمَعْتُوهَةِ قَالَ الْمَرْأَةُ إِنَّمَا تُؤْتَى وَ الرَّجُلُ يَأْتِي وَ إِنَّمَا يَزْنِي إِذَا عَقَلَ كَيْفَ يَأْتِي اللَّذَّةَ وَ إِنَّ الْمَرْأَةَ إِنَّمَا تُسْتَكْرَهُ وَ يُفْعَلُ بِهَا وَ هِيَ لَا تَعْقِلُ مَا يُفْعَلُ بِهَا.

 

I can only read Arabic but Urdu translation of Al Kafi Volume 7 is present on hubeali.com and you may check the translation on Page 267 of the said chapter.

The first two aHadith in the chapter talk about zina of an insane woman who gets pregnant, there is no punishment on her.

The third Hadith mentions zina by an insane man or someone with a simple mind (someone with deficient mind I suppose) and it says they will be flogged and if married, then stoned. The narrator then asks for difference between an insane man and an insane woman. The Imam then explains that the woman is entered while the man is the one entering, and zina is committed when he has this much understanding that you get pleasure from entering and that the woman is forced and this is done to her and she does not understand what is being done to her.

 

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Shouldn't the sin, therefore, fall on the sane actor regarding zina involving an insane person? The sane person in this case knowingly has taken advantage of the insane man or woman, who is in a legal state no different from that of a child in terms of ethical and legal responsibilities.

The topic is complicated and no wonder I found a site with English translation present of Volume 7 except the punishments/hudud part where it clearly wrote that since the issues mentioned are complicated to understand, we have not translated the same in absence of an Imam (عليه السلام). 

I can argue that man or woman, when insane, are technically being forced in the act (raped) by a sane person/taken advantage of them so there cannot be any punishment for them.

However, is it not possible for an insane man to overpower an unwilling woman and commit zina/rape if he is used to the pleasure?

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 9/26/2024 at 4:00 PM, Dreamcatcher said:

However, is it not possible for an insane man to overpower an unwilling woman and commit zina/rape if he is used to the pleasure?

Salam 

On 9/23/2024 at 9:18 PM, Shiajuice said:

The sane person in this case knowingly has taken advantage of the insane man or woman, who is in a legal state no different from that of a child in terms of ethical and legal responsibilities.

It somehow can be explained by  idea of  "Our Three Brains - The Reptilian (motor/instinctual/sexual ) Brain" which everyone even insane people  has this lowest level of brain which is essential for spreading human generation through pleasure & other animalstic desires which insane or  a simple mind person maybe has minimum amount of emotional brain while a child can achieve to utmost of emotional brain so then develops into an intellectual brain level after becoming mature & having Consciousness. 

Three Brains
Esoteric psychology explains that humanoids have three brains:

an intellectual brain
emotional brain
a motor/instinctual/sexual brain

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animalistic

(ænɪməlɪstɪk  )

 

adjective

If you describe a person or their behaviour as animalistic, you mean that they do not try to hide or control their basic feelings and physical needs.

The two teams were matched in a ferocious, almost animalistic battle. 

...her animalistic instincts for survival. 

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/animalistic

Consciousness

Consciousness is the root of who we truly are. Consciousness is the root of perception, awareness, and understanding.

• Consciousness is not thought (intellect).
• Consciousness is not emotion (heart).
• Consciousness is not impulse or sensation (motor/instinctual/sexual).

Consciousness perceives all of them, but is beyond them.

https://glorian.org/connect/blog/three-brains-and-five-centers

https://www.interaction-design.org/literature/article/our-three-brains-the-reptilian-brain