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About the saying of missing ayats in Quran.

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Can anyone tell me about the saying of missing ayats in the Quran? It is a certain issue or a propaganda that the shias are termed with the fact of claiming that the Quran has shortage of the ayats that were so far revealed but now lacks in those as the 2nd Caliph is accused for this kind of action. 
r/exmuslim - HOTD 176: Umar is afraid of the future—a future without stoning + the forgotten Verse of Stoning

Look what i found:
https://sunnah.com/ahmad:249
 

I heard Sa`eed bin al-Musayyab (say) that `Umar (رضي الله عنه ) said: Beware of neglecting the verse of stoning, lest someone say, We do not find two hadd punishments in the Book of Allah, for I saw the Prophet (ﷺ) stone [adulterers] and we stoned [adulterers] too.
 
حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى، عَنْ يَحْيَى، قَالَ سَمِعْتُ سَعِيدَ بْنَ الْمُسَيَّبِ، أَنَّ عُمَرَ، رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ قَالَ إِيَّاكُمْ أَنْ تَهْلِكُوا عَنْ آيَةِ الرَّجْمِ لَا نَجِدُ حَدَّيْنِ فِي كِتَابِ اللَّهِ فَقَدْ رَأَيْتُ النَّبِيَّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَدْ رَجَمَ وَقَدْ رَجَمْنَا‏.‏
 
Grade:  Sahih, al-Bukhari (2462) and Muslim (1691)

 

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On 9/14/2024 at 8:12 AM, alhimmat said:

Can anyone tell me about the saying of missing ayats in the Quran? It is a certain issue or a propaganda that the shias are termed with the fact of claiming that the Quran has shortage of the ayats that were so far revealed but now lacks in those as the 2nd Caliph is accused for this kind of action.

Salam this nonsense only exists in Sunni sources which has not validity for Shia muslims which Shias  don't believe in shortage of Ayats although always we have been accused by Wahabist & other anti shia people to this which they have used it against us for running away from existence of such nonsense in their so called Sahih books while it has been totally refuted by Shia Muslims . 

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On 9/16/2024 at 7:10 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam this nonsense only exists in Sunni sources which has not validity for Shia muslims which Shias  don't believe in shortage of Ayats although always we have been accused by Wahabist & other anti shia people to this which they have used it against us for running away from existence of such nonsense in their so called Sahih books while it has been totally refuted by Shia Muslims . 

Brother it isn't very fair to say that it 'only exists in Sunni sources'. In Al Kafi there is one example of a narration graded authentic (موثق) by Al Majlisi where it is said that the quran was revealed in 17,000 verses.

And Al Majlisi even said in Mirat Al Uqul that the narrations we have mentioning tahrif/alteration of the quran are on the same level of tawatur as imamah.

 

"وفي بعض النسخ عن هشام بن سالم موضع هارون بن مسلم ، فالخبر صحيح ولا يخفى أن هذا الخبر وكثير من الأخبار الصحيحة صريحة في نقص القرآن وتغييره ، وعندي أن الأخبار في هذا الباب متواترة معنى ، وطرح جميعها يوجب رفع الاعتماد عن الأخبار رأسا بل ظني أن الأخبار في هذا الباب لا يقصر عن أخبار الإمامة فكيف يثبتونها بالخبر."

 

However, this is rightfully denied by the vast majority of Shias today, so I by no means think that tahrif is an accepted belief of 12ers nowadays.

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On 9/14/2024 at 6:12 PM, alhimmat said:

Can anyone tell me about the saying of missing ayats in the Quran? It is a certain issue or a propaganda that the shias are termed with the fact of claiming that the Quran has shortage of the ayats that were so far revealed but now lacks in those as the 2nd Caliph is accused for this kind of action. 

إِنَّا نَحْنُ نَزَّلْنَا الذِّكْرَ وَإِنَّا لَهُ لَحَافِظُونَ

Surely We have revealed the Reminder and We will most surely be its guardian. (15:9)

This is sufficient for all Muslims to believe in this verse.
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On 9/16/2024 at 2:10 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam this nonsense only exists in Sunni sources which has not validity for Shia muslims which Shias  don't believe in shortage of Ayats although always we have been accused by Wahabist & other anti shia people to this which they have used it against us for running away from existence of such nonsense in their so called Sahih books while it has been totally refuted by Shia Muslims . 

The majority of Muslim shias today don't beleive in a quran that is incomplete, however historicaly, shia muslims have been divided on this from what I understand. It's not an accusation, but more a confusion by wahhabis, who don't understand that the consensus today by shia ulama is that the quran is complete.

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On 10/2/2024 at 4:45 PM, Guest111 said:

Brother it isn't very fair to say that it 'only exists in Sunni sources'. In Al Kafi there is one example of a narration graded authentic (موثق) by Al Majlisi where it is said that the quran was revealed in 17,000 verses.

And Al Majlisi even said in Mirat Al Uqul that the narrations we have mentioning tahrif/alteration of the quran are on the same level of tawatur as imamah.

 

"وفي بعض النسخ عن هشام بن سالم موضع هارون بن مسلم ، فالخبر صحيح ولا يخفى أن هذا الخبر وكثير من الأخبار الصحيحة صريحة في نقص القرآن وتغييره ، وعندي أن الأخبار في هذا الباب متواترة معنى ، وطرح جميعها يوجب رفع الاعتماد عن الأخبار رأسا بل ظني أن الأخبار في هذا الباب لا يقصر عن أخبار الإمامة فكيف يثبتونها بالخبر."

 

However, this is rightfully denied by the vast majority of Shias today, so I by no means think that tahrif is an accepted belief of 12ers nowadays.

Salam thank you for reminding it although I have been aware of it which it has been discussed many times in similar threads which it's just a conclusion of Al Majlisi from some reports which it has been interpreted in many ways likewise removing reasons & cause & time & place of revelation of Ayats not originals Ayats which in some versions of quran  cause & time & place of revelation of each ayah has been mentioned which these things have been censored & removed because some of these matters have been about proving & Imamate of amir al muminin Imam Ali (عليه السلام) & rest of infallible Imams  & citicizing his/their enemeies which original ayats have been collected without  these matters in current holy quran so therefore according to consensus of all Shia scholars  original text of holy Quran has been remained intact while reasons & cause & time & place of revelation of Ayats have been removed . 

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Posted (edited)
On 10/2/2024 at 9:15 AM, Guest111 said:

Brother it isn't very fair to say that it 'only exists in Sunni sources'. In Al Kafi there is one example of a narration graded authentic (موثق) by Al Majlisi where it is said that the quran was revealed in 17,000 verses.

And Al Majlisi even said in Mirat Al Uqul that the narrations we have mentioning tahrif/alteration of the quran are on the same level of tawatur as imamah.

 

"وفي بعض النسخ عن هشام بن سالم موضع هارون بن مسلم ، فالخبر صحيح ولا يخفى أن هذا الخبر وكثير من الأخبار الصحيحة صريحة في نقص القرآن وتغييره ، وعندي أن الأخبار في هذا الباب متواترة معنى ، وطرح جميعها يوجب رفع الاعتماد عن الأخبار رأسا بل ظني أن الأخبار في هذا الباب لا يقصر عن أخبار الإمامة فكيف يثبتونها بالخبر."

 

However, this is rightfully denied by the vast majority of Shias today, so I by no means think that tahrif is an accepted belief of 12ers nowadays.

Like the brother said, the belief of the Shia (now and in the past) is that tahreef occured in the tafsir of Quran (such as the tafsir which Imam Ali((عليه السلام)) presented to Umar and Abu Bakr and they rejected) and other issues regarding interpretation of certain ayats (like 33:33 and ayat of Wilayat and other ayats), not in the words of Quran or it's chapters. 

Edited by Abu Hadi
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