Physical intimacy after nikkah and before rukhsti (wedding party)

[Guest Zahra]

Salam,

I  got my nikkah done last year, but there was a delay in Rukhsati (actual wedding, and my Rukhsti will be done this year as per my family).

About three months after our nikkah, I met my husband and, at his request, agreed to share intimacy. We were intimate twice (2 times only) after Nikkah. However, I now feel conflicted because I've heard that such intimacy before an official wedding or before Rukhsati is highly inappropriate.

 It's been a year and a half since we got our nikkah done, and our last intimacy was eight months ago. Currently, we hardly meet each other and communicate mostly through phone calls or messages.

Later, I learned that pre-rukhsti intimacy can invalidate nikkah in certain beliefs. I personally don't agree with these beliefs, but I'm troubled by why such ideas exist and are considered taboo. I'm deeply distressed by these confusing and ambiguous matters. It's affecting my relationship with my husband, as we argue about this daily. However, he maintains that our actions are not Haram.

I'm feeling very disheartened about this situation. Could you please provide insights based on Shia rulings? 

My questions are:

1. Does our intimacy before rukhsati affect the validity of our Nikkah or make husband and wife haram for each other? Does this make any difference to our marriage? 

2. Is it suitable to have intimacy before rukhsti and after nikkah. Am I considered sinful for this, or do I earn any merits (ajar)?
Adding more, my parents are totally unaware of this that I shared intimacy with my husband as they won't like this, and this thought is also disturbing me.

Your assistance and insights based on Shia teachings and Quran/ Sunnah on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

[Haji 2003]

3 hours ago, Guest Zahra said:

However, I now feel conflicted because I've heard that such intimacy before an official wedding or before Rukhsati is highly inappropriate.

No, it's not.

[ShiaMan14]

15 hours ago, Guest Zahra said:

My questions are:

1. Does our intimacy before rukhsati affect the validity of our Nikkah or make husband and wife haram for each other? Does this make any difference to our marriage? 

2. Is it suitable to have intimacy before rukhsti and after nikkah. Am I considered sinful for this, or do I earn any merits (ajar)?
Adding more, my parents are totally unaware of this that I shared intimacy with my husband as they won't like this, and this thought is also disturbing me.

Your assistance and insights based on Shia teachings and Quran/ Sunnah on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

1) Nikah is the only thing that matters. "rukhsati" is cultural so your nikah is completely valid. I should advise you that while islamically it is perfectly permissible, it may be a cultural taboo and probably make things worse if you were to get pregnant.

2) No sin at all because you are husband and wife in the eyes of Allah. Again, it's a cultural taboo and not a religious restriction.

Personally, I am not a fan of extended gaps between nikah and rukhsati. 

[AbdusSibtayn]

'Rukhsati' is a cultural thing and has no legal basis. Once your aqd has been recited, you are good to go. 

Wassalam. 

[Quran313]

You may committ sin if you argue with your husband on something which is totally fine islamically. That's the only sin I can think of. Other than that evetything else is fine and valid.

[Maisam Haider]

This can be an issue Islamically in certain cases. For example, if the husband and wife are not living together and the husband is not providing expenses (nafaqah) to his wife, then the wife may exercise her Islamic right to refuse intimacy. 

Also, if there is a condition in the nikah contract that intimacy will not take place until rukhsati is done, then it is not right to engage in it before rukhsati. 

If they are not living together and the husband has not paid the mahar, the wife can refuse intimacy. 

On 8/1/2024 at 11:11 PM, AbdusSibtayn said:

'Rukhsati' is a cultural thing and has no legal basis. Once your aqd has been recited, you are good to go. 

Wassalam. 

It can have legal basis in Islam under some conditions as mentioned above. Also, something that is "cultural" may also have some standing in Islam. For example, Imam Ali (عليه السلام) himself did not start living with Lady Fatima (عليه السلام) for several months after their nikah. Their "rukhsati" was not immediate and there was a gap of several months. This shows that a waiting period after nikah and before rukhsati may be necessary under certain situations and if intimacy is avoided during this time, there is no problem in it. If intimacy is done, it can be an issue if it breaks the pre-set conditions under which the nikah was done. 

[Guest Author]

16 hours ago, Maisam Haider said:

This can be an issue Islamically in certain cases. For example, if the husband and wife are not living together and the husband is not providing expenses (nafaqah) to his wife, then the wife may exercise her Islamic right to refuse intimacy. 

Also, if there is a condition in the nikah contract that intimacy will not take place until rukhsati is done, then it is not right to engage in it before rukhsati. 

If they are not living together and the husband has not paid the mahar, the wife can refuse intimacy. 

It can have legal basis in Islam under some conditions as mentioned above. Also, something that is "cultural" may also have some standing in Islam. For example, Imam Ali (عليه السلام) himself did not start living with Lady Fatima (عليه السلام) for several months after their nikah. Their "rukhsati" was not immediate and there was a gap of several months. This shows that a waiting period after nikah and before rukhsati may be necessary under certain situations and if intimacy is avoided during this time, there is no problem in it. If intimacy is done, it can be an issue if it breaks the pre-set conditions under which the nikah was done. 

Salam, 

My Nikkah was done with all the necessary conditions which are needed for a valid Nikkah to be performed. It was a wedding-like nikkah with so many guests in wedding banquet/venue with large buffet and meal. My husband's family distributed Bid (mini packets of sweet candies and chocolates etc) right after our nikkah. 

I was given my assigned Mahar by my nikkah reciter right after I signed my Nikkah papers. Also, there was not a single clause which said to avoid physical intimacy or whatsoever (as I read my nikkah papers so many times and I found nothing like that). Also, I didnt either know that such clause existed or not for a "Without-Rukhsti" nikkah.

The only thing was, I was not sent with my husband as I had my university to complete.

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 8/9/2024 at 3:26 AM, Maisam Haider said:

It can have legal basis in Islam under some conditions as mentioned above. Also, something that is "cultural" may also have some standing in Islam. For example, Imam Ali (عليه السلام) himself did not start living with Lady Fatima (عليه السلام) for several months after their nikah. Their "rukhsati" was not immediate and there was a gap of several months. This shows that a waiting period after nikah and before rukhsati may be necessary under certain situations and if intimacy is avoided during this time, there is no problem in it. If intimacy is done, it can be an issue if it breaks the pre-set conditions under which the nikah was done. 

Salam , Lol  this is just an imaginary story about "Rukhsati" which has no basis which this story just innovated by you to justify your innovation living without intimacy which your innovation has been refuted countless times but you have returned with a false story & accusation against imam Ali (عليه السلام) just for proving your innovation . 

[Guest Guest Zahra]

2 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam , Lol  this is just an imaginary story about "Rukhsati" which has no basis which this story just innovated by you to justify your innovation living without intimacy which your innovation has been refuted countless times but you have returned with a false story & accusation against imam Ali (عليه السلام) just for proving your innovation . 

Exactly. I'm myself distressed by the school of thought of Nikkah of Mola Ali and Lady Fatima as they both had their early Nikkah and after sometime , rukhsti.

I, considering this, think that I might have done something wrong. I after getting to know this fact, don't meet my husband anymore and just waiting for my actual rukhsati.

 

[AbdusSibtayn]

On 8/9/2024 at 5:26 AM, Maisam Haider said:

It can have legal basis in Islam under some conditions as mentioned above. Also, something that is "cultural" may also have some standing in Islam. For example, Imam Ali (عليه السلام) himself did not start living with Lady Fatima (عليه السلام) for several months after their nikah. Their "rukhsati" was not immediate and there was a gap of several months. This shows that a waiting period after nikah and before rukhsati may be necessary under certain situations and if intimacy is avoided during this time, there is no problem in it. If intimacy is done, it can be an issue if it breaks the pre-set conditions under which the nikah was done. 

1. I need authentic proof of this bit, about a waiting period of several months between their aqd and and them beginning to live together. On all accounts, she (sa) was married when she was 11, and Imam Hassan (عليه السلام) was born in her 12th year, so that doesn't leave leeway for a 'several months' long gap between the two aforementioned events. 

2.There's no mandated waiting period between the recital of the aqd and physical intimacy. 'They didn't' doesn't translate to 'they couldn't'; that's not how usool al-fiqh works; you need solid adillat to establish the awamir and nawahy, even in the sunnah acts. 

Mimbar talk and mama-grandma fairy-tales imposed in the name of 'culture' only serve to truncate the religion and overcomplicate lives. 

[AbdusSibtayn]

On 8/10/2024 at 2:01 PM, Guest Guest Zahra said:

Exactly. I'm myself distressed by the school of thought of Nikkah of Mola Ali and Lady Fatima as they both had their early Nikkah and after sometime , rukhsti.

This is a mama-grandma story with no historical basis, probably minted as a part of the Indo-Pak marriage lore. 

[Maisam Haider]

10 hours ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

This is a mama-grandma story with no historical basis, probably minted as a part of the Indo-Pak marriage lore. 

Maybe you need to read history in more detail to find out the truth. There is definitely a waiting period, a non-planned gap. The question is whether the gap was between engagement and nikah / or nikah and starting to live together. The gap was at least a month or more.

So you have to be careful with your choice of words because a gap is definitely there. Yes, it could be after engagement and not after nikah, as mentioned below: 

https://www.al-islam.org/fatima-gracious-abu-muhammad-ordoni/preparations-wedding

Edited August 12 by Maisam Haider

[Maisam Haider]

10 hours ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

2.There's no mandated waiting period between the recital of the aqd and physical intimacy.

There can be a mandated period if this is a condition of the nikah contract. If both parties agree that intimacy will not take place for a certain period of time, then there is no problem in it. 

Moreover, a wife is only obligated to provide intimacy if the husband has paid mehr. Otherwise, she has the Islamic right to refuse. 

Also, if the husband is not providing nafaqah, the wife can still refuse intimacy.

[Maisam Haider]

On 8/10/2024 at 1:31 PM, Guest Guest Zahra said:

I, considering this, think that I might have done something wrong.

You have not done anything wrong Islamically. The problem js only when the condition of nikah contract is that sexual intercourse will not take place until husband-wife start living together, and later the husband or the wife forces the spouse to have intimacy without the person's consent. If this is not your case and you had mutually agreed for intimacy, then there is no issue. 

[Maisam Haider]

A man can put down a condition in nikah contract that sexual intercourse will not take place for even more than four months after nikah. For example, if a nikah has been done but he has not started living with his wife and is not financially providing expenses to her, he can stipulate that no intimacy will take place for as long as they don't start living together - even if it is for months or years. 

https://www.sistani.org/english/book/48/2369/

Ruling 2436. A husband cannot refrain from having sexual intercourse with a young wife of his for more than four months unless sexual intercourse is harmful or excessively difficult (mashaqqah) for him, or the wife consents to it, or he had stipulated a condition in the marriage contract regarding this. 

Edited August 12 by Maisam Haider

[AbdusSibtayn]

58 minutes ago, Maisam Haider said:

Maybe you need to read history in more detail to find out the truth. There is definitely a waiting period, a non-planned gap. The question is whether the gap was between engagement and nikah / or nikah and starting to live together. The gap was at least a month or more.

So you have to be careful with your choice of words because a gap is definitely there. Yes, it could be after engagement and not after nikah, as mentioned below: 

https://www.al-islam.org/fatima-gracious-abu-muhammad-ordoni/preparations-wedding

Maybe it is you who needs to read the links you send yourself first, or in the very least, make an effort to understand what you read. It clearly says-

"A non-planned period of time elapsed between the engagement and the wedding ceremony, because Imam ‘Ali (عليه السلام) was too shy to ask the Prophet to assign a day for the wedding.. .. "

1. It was a non-planned gap, not a deliberate one unlike the Indo-Pak 'rukhsati' customs. 

2. It was born of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) 's shy nature, not out of some customary/legal constraints. 

3. The time gap between their marriage and al-Hassan (عليه السلام) 's birth itself indicates that there was no prolonged 'Rukhsati' waiting period between their marriage and the point when they moved in together. 

4. The gap itself was a non-plannef between their engagement and marriage, not some deliberate, pre-planned, customary waiting period after the marriage between the aqd recital and them moving in together. 

Please don't read your own conjured-up shibboleths into history and accuse others of not knowing what they are talking about. 

[AbdusSibtayn]

1 hour ago, Maisam Haider said:

There can be a mandated period if this is a condition of the nikah contract. If both parties agree that intimacy will not take place for a certain period of time, then there is no problem in it. 

Moreover, a wife is only obligated to provide intimacy if the husband has paid mehr. Otherwise, she has the Islamic right to refuse. 

Also, if the husband is not providing nafaqah, the wife can still refuse intimacy.

1. Sure, both parties can put any condition they like. The husband can put the condition that they'll watch a Teletubbies episode together before each session of intimacy, whereas the wife can put the condition that they'll act out a Cinderella/Rapunzel cosplay before the same. How does any of this mean that these things are ipso facto a necessity? 

2. It has already been mentioned above that the mahr has been paid, and the husband is not providing nafaqah currently not out of design, but out of circumstances because the wife is living at her natal home (hence not a 'refusal'. 

On 8/9/2024 at 10:12 PM, Guest Author said:

 

I was given my assigned Mahar by my nikkah reciter right after I signed my Nikkah papers

 

[Ashvazdanghe]

2 hours ago, Maisam Haider said:

Also, if the husband is not providing nafaqah, the wife can still refuse intimacy.

Salam this is another innovation  by you which has no basis except your total ignorance from islamic rulings which you want to promot your innovations in name of Islam due to having problem in your family which Woman even can't ask for divorce if her husband doesn't pay her Nafaqah in similar fashion She can't refrain from intimacy although your innovation .

Can a woman who hasn’t received her Nafaqah consider herself as divorced? If so, when does her waiting period of iddah commence?

 

Can a woman who hasn’t received her Nafaqah for the past five months consider herself divorced? For example, because of having another family, if a father deserts his first family and doesn’t provide their sustenance and doesn’t care about them anymore, can the mother of such family consider herself divorced and if so, from when does her waiting period of iddah commence? From the day the father has deserted the family, or three months after the day the father has done so?

 

In any case, if the husband doesn’t pay her the Nafaqah without any legally acceptable excuse, the Islamic authority can divorce her from her husband and she will have to observe the waiting period after the divorce has been executed.

Fortunately, given the means of communication in today’s world, Muslim women can engage in solving their problems of this genre.

Quote

Response of the office of Ayatullah Makarim Shirazi (may Allah prolong his life):

In the case of the husband not paying the Nafaqah without any legally acceptable excuse, the Islamic authority can legally divorce her from him. The waiting period will begin after the divorce formula has been carried out.

Response of the office of Ayatullah Fazel Lankarani (RAH):

No, she must refer to the courts. The waiting period begins when the divorce formula has been carried out.

Response of the office of Ayatullah Bahjat (RAH):

No, she cannot and she must ask the husband to divorce her so that if he wants, he does so.

 

---

[1] Tahrir al-Wasilah, kitab al-talaq (book of divorce), pg. 763, issues 1,2 and 3.

[2] What is meant by the Islamic authority, is the qualified jurist (mujtahid).

https://www.islamquest.net/en/archive/fa635

 

 It is in the interests of both women and men that nafaqah be the charge of men and women be the dependants of men. Because men are attracted to and fond of women, they desire to spend for them, and not only are they without resent, they are completely satisfied and feel good about themselves when they behave in this way. The financial dependence of women is not a drawback and it does not make them stipendiary servants; rather, it strengthens the backbone of marriage. Basically, in familial life, a man’s earnings belong to the family, they are utilized for acquiring necessities; therefore, financial independence or the lack thereof is not an issue.

Here, it must be pointed out that the aim of Islam in making men responsible for nafaqah is not to thwart employment of women, make them consumers and ‘stay-at-homers’, and obstruct them from having jobs and responsibilities outside their homes. Instead, Islam intends that women not be forced to work and provide living expenses; however, with regard to her abilities, preferences, and facilities, and the mutual agreement of spouses, a wife can choose an acceptable job and perform her responsibilities outside her home, and thus have an independent income.

Naturally, her income belongs to herself and she need not use it for family expenditures. A virtuous woman would, however, with purity of heart, like her husband, prefer to donate it to the family so that it would have a part in managing and improving familial life and increase serenity and love within the entire family.

https://www.al-islam.org/introduction-rights-and-duties-women-islam-ibrahim-amini/nafaqah-financial-support-and-its

 

2 hours ago, Maisam Haider said:

A man can put down a condition in nikah contract that sexual intercourse will not take place for even more than four months after nikah. For example, if a nikah has been done but he has not started living with his wife and is not financially providing expenses to her, he can stipulate that no intimacy will take place for as long as they don't start living together - even if it is for months or years. 

This is another example your total misunderstanding from Islamic rulings which you misinterpret anything in favor of your own innovation by making a ruling for special condition into a general Fatwa for all times & all conditions based on your innovation 

 

Edited August 12 by Ashvazdanghe

[Maisam Haider]

1 hour ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

making a ruling for special condition into a general Fatwa for all times & all conditions based on your innovation 

Your hostile attitude and caustic remarks only portrays your lack of manners. 

You have yourself assumed that I have made a fatwa for all times, whereas I said no such thing. 

Islam gives rules and regulations for each and every possible scenario, no matter how rare and unusual it may be. But looks like you are too narrow-minded to even accept anything which is slightly other than the norm. 

If a man is in prison serving a life-time sentence, and he wishes to get married, there is no Islamic law to stop him from getting married even if he can never live with his wife. 

If a woman agrees to get married to a man who will spend his entire life in prison and they will never ever live together, and never have sexual relationship, then is their nikah invalid ? 

Can you bring any Islamic law which can state that they cannot get married ? 

3 hours ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

The husband can put the condition that they'll watch a Teletubbies episode together before each session of intimacy, whereas the wife can put the condition that they'll act out a Cinderella/Rapunzel cosplay before the same. How does any of this mean that these things are ipso facto a necessity? 

Very childish and immature statement. This is like making fun of Islamic rules and regulations of nikah contract. And nobody said anything about  any "necessity". The topic is only about genuine and serious conditions of nikah regarding when intimacy will take place.

1 hour ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

another innovation  by you which has no basis except your total ignorance from islamic rulings which you want to promot your innovations in name of Islam due to having problem in your family

This is a rule of Syed Sistani, not my innovation. You have done a slander against me by accusing me of innovation. You must apologize to me otherwise I will hold you responsible on the day of judgement for using foul language and slandering and lying. 

https://www.sistani.org/english/book/48/2369/

Ruling 2434. If a wife’s living expenses are borne by her husband but he does not pay for them, she can take her living expenses from his property without his consent. If this is not possible, in the event that she cannot complain to a fully qualified jurist about this and has no option but to work to meet her living expenses, then while she is working to meet her living expenses, it is not obligatory for her to obey her husband [in those matters that are normally obligatory for her to obey him].

Edited August 12 by Maisam Haider

[Maisam Haider]

Sayed Sistani:

2427. It is not permissible for the husband to abandon sexual intercourse with his youthful, permanent wife for more than 4 months, except when sexual intercourse is harmful to him, or involves unusually more effort, or when the wife herself agrees to avoid it, or if a prior stipulation to that effect was made at the time of Nikah by the husband. And in this rule, there is no difference between the situations when the husband is present, or on a journey, or whether she is a wife by permanent or temporary marriage. 

---------

This is not watching teletubbies. This is ruling of Syed Sistani. Please stop making fun of Islamic laws. 

[AbdusSibtayn]

27 minutes ago, Maisam Haider said:

Very childish and immature statement. This is like making fun of Islamic rules and regulations of nikah contract. And nobody said anything about  any "necessity". The topic is only about genuine and serious conditions of nikah regarding when intimacy will take place.

An ill-informed take which reflects a lack of understanding. 

Was any such contract/condition stipulated between the parties? If no, then you are only wallowing in the counterfactual. 

'Rukhsati' is not an 'islamic rule' of nikah, please stop sounding like a broken vinyl record stuck in the same place. 

9 minutes ago, Maisam Haider said:

Sayed Sistani:

2427. It is not permissible for the husband to abandon sexual intercourse with his youthful, permanent wife for more than 4 months, except when sexual intercourse is harmful to him, or involves unusually more effort, or when the wife herself agrees to avoid it, or if a prior stipulation to that effect was made at the time of Nikah by the husband. And in this rule, there is no difference between the situations when the husband is present, or on a journey, or whether she is a wife by permanent or temporary marriage. 

---------

This is not watching teletubbies. This is ruling of Syed Sistani. Please stop making fun of Islamic laws. 

Are you actually this dense or do you habitually have this thing for tossing around copy-pastes without reading them yourself? 

What does ANY of this have to do with intercourse being haram before any so-called 'rukhsati'? If anything, the aforementioned rulings make it amply clear for anyone with an IQ in double digits that the wife is ENTITLED to sex by default, except in irregular circumstances as discussed. 

It is you and your likes who are making fun of Islamic laws by association cultural innovations/bid'ahs with them. Tone down with the insults and accusations. 

[Maisam Haider]

16 minutes ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

What does ANY of this have to do with intercourse being haram before any so-called 'rukhsati'?

Can you tell me where I said this is Haram?

If yes, then I will admit I am dense. Otherwise, you will have to answer on the day of judgement in front of Allah for lying and using slander and false accusations against me. 

Edited August 12 by Maisam Haider

[Maisam Haider]

45 minutes ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

Rukhsati' is not an 'islamic rule' of nikah, please stop sounding like a broken vinyl record stuck in the same place. 

 

Rules of Rukhsati in Islam: 

https://www.al-islam.org/marriage-according-five-schools-islamic-law-muhammad-jawad-mughniyya/right-maintenance

(11) If the wife remains at her father's home after -the recital of the marriage contract for a period of time and then claims maintenance for that period, shall she be entitled to it?

The Hanafis observe: She is entitled to maintenance even if she hasn't shifted to her husband's home, either because the husband hasn't asked her to do so, or has but she has refused to come until she is given her mahr (Ibn 'Abidin).

According to the Maliki and the Shafi’i schools, she is entitled to maintenance if the marriage has been consummated or she has offered herself to him.

The Hanbali school states: If she doesn't offer herself, she is not entitled to maintenance even if she remains in such a state for years.

The Imamiyyah consider her entitled to maintenance from the date of the consummation of marriage-even if such consummation should occur while she is with her family-and from the date of her asking him to take her along with him.

From the above-mentioned views, it follows that all the schools entitle her to maintenance if she has offered herself and showed her readiness to comply, and also if the marriage has been consummated, except that the Hanafis do not suffice with consummation but consider her willingness to confine herself also necessary. Apart from this, it has been pointed in the answer to the eighth question of this section that the wife has the right to refuse obedience till she is paid her prompt mahr, and her doing so is legally valid and does not cause her maintenance to cease.

Edited August 12 by Maisam Haider

[AbdusSibtayn]

16 hours ago, Maisam Haider said:

 

Rules of Rukhsati in Islam: 

https://www.al-islam.org/marriage-according-five-schools-islamic-law-muhammad-jawad-mughniyya/right-maintenance

(11) If the wife remains at her father's home after -the recital of the marriage contract for a period of time and then claims maintenance for that period, shall she be entitled to it?

The Hanafis observe: She is entitled to maintenance even if she hasn't shifted to her husband's home, either because the husband hasn't asked her to do so, or has but she has refused to come until she is given her mahr (Ibn 'Abidin).

According to the Maliki and the Shafi’i schools, she is entitled to maintenance if the marriage has been consummated or she has offered herself to him.

The Hanbali school states: If she doesn't offer herself, she is not entitled to maintenance even if she remains in such a state for years.

The Imamiyyah consider her entitled to maintenance from the date of the consummation of marriage-even if such consummation should occur while she is with her family-and from the date of her asking him to take her along with him.

From the above-mentioned views, it follows that all the schools entitle her to maintenance if she has offered herself and showed her readiness to comply, and also if the marriage has been consummated, except that the Hanafis do not suffice with consummation but consider her willingness to confine herself also necessary. Apart from this, it has been pointed in the answer to the eighth question of this section that the wife has the right to refuse obedience till she is paid her prompt mahr, and her doing so is legally valid and does not cause her maintenance to cease.

Fiqh of maintenance of the wife in her patrilocal settings =\ = Culturally-mandated period of living apart and sexual abstinence AFTER marriage aka 'Rukhsati'. 

No mention of the concept anywhere in the link. 

Also for those with blind spots- 

The repeated mention of 'consummation' throughout the text of the link. 

Me: Gulab Jamun and Biryani during walima have no religious basis, therefore if they're not on the menu, it's not a sin. 

You: Gulab Jamun and Biryani are halal; I even have a gazillion fatwas on walimas, thus they are religious dishes. 

Wassalam. 

[AbdusSibtayn]

1 hour ago, Maisam Haider said:

Can you tell me where I said this is Haram?

If yes, then I will admit I am dense. Otherwise, you will have to answer on the day of judgement in front of Allah for lying and using slander and false accusations against me. 

It is actually you who came with your  bellicose and patronizing slanderous tone accusing others of making fun of Islamic laws. I don't see how you are any less liable to answer Allah for your slanders and insults. 

 

On 8/1/2024 at 6:01 PM, Guest Zahra said:

Later, I learned that pre-rukhsti intimacy can invalidate nikkah in certain beliefs.

 

On 8/1/2024 at 6:01 PM, Guest Zahra said:

My questions are:

1. Does our intimacy before rukhsati affect the validity of our Nikkah or make husband and wife haram for each other? Does this make any difference to our marriage? 

2. Is it suitable to have intimacy before rukhsti and after nikkah. Am I considered sinful for this, or do I earn any merits (ajar)?

The OP is clearly asking if physical intimacy during the so called 'rukhsati' is haram or not, implying asking if or such a waiting period is compulsory or a shari'i wajib (which it is not). She has been answered per her original question. What counterfactual yarns someone chooses to spin out of the discussion is entirely irrelevant to the original question as posed. 

Wassalam. 

[Maisam Haider]

2 hours ago, Maisam Haider said:

Can you tell me where I said this is Haram?

You did not answer my question. 

40 minutes ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

The OP is clearly asking if physical intimacy during the so called 'rukhsati' is haram or not

My reply to OP was this: 

7 hours ago, Maisam Haider said:

You have not done anything wrong Islamically

This proves that you have accused me of saying something which I never said. You have lied. 

[Guest Zahra]

8 hours ago, Maisam Haider said:

There can be a mandated period if this is a condition of the nikah contract. If both parties agree that intimacy will not take place for a certain period of time, then there is no problem in it. 

Moreover, a wife is only obligated to provide intimacy if the husband has paid mehr. Otherwise, she has the Islamic right to refuse. 

Also, if the husband is not providing nafaqah, the wife can still refuse intimacy.

Salam,  

Writer of the post here.

 

My Nikkah was done with all the necessary conditions which are needed for a valid Nikkah to be performed. It was a wedding-like nikkah with so many guests in wedding banquet/venue with large buffet and meal. My husband's family distributed Bid (mini packets of sweet candies and chocolates etc) right after our nikkah. 

 

I was given my assigned Mahar by my nikkah reciter right after I signed my Nikkah papers. Also, there was not a single clause which said to avoid physical intimacy or whatsoever (as I read my nikkah papers so many times and I found nothing like that). Also, I didnt either know that such clause existed or not for a "Without-Rukhsti" nikkah.

 

The only thing was, I was not sent with my husband as I had my university to complete.

[Guest Zahra]

Also, some say that parents' trust is broken and I'm sinful for breaking my parents' trust and I should Astaghfar and repent on my sin. Although I don't want to break their trust and never wanted to.

I don't see my husband anymore and we just connect on phone occasionally and just waiting for our actual 'Rukhsati'. In this long gap of nikah and before wedding  we just met twice and not more than that, also for the reason that he lives in different city.

My parents' respect is equally important for me. This nikkah was their choice not mine. The man who is my husband, is also the man of their choice. However, I feel pressurised when I hear the things that parents' trust is broken and I should repent and Allah will curse such a person etc. 

 

 

This is the actual message which I read: 

 

1- your Nikah is a valid Nikah and based on that being intimate with your husband was perfectly fine in the boundaries of Fiqh

 

2- Above the Islamic Fiqh rules is the Islamic Akhlaq. Technically the wilayat of your father is implemented on you when you are living in your father’s house and haven’t officially moved on to your husband’s house. This also means that it was expected of you both that until you won’t move to your own house with your husband, you won’t be intimate with each other. This is never stated obviously, but is tacitly expected in all Islamic cultures. 

 

So in Fiqh terms, you did not do anything wrong, but in Islamic Akhlaq terms, you and your husband breached the tacit trust of your and his parents. 

 

 

Solution: 

1- Don’t ever tell anything to anyone. Intimacy between husband and wife is a sacred trust between them and Allah, and nobody else needs to know. 

2- Do Tawba and seek Allah’s forgiveness for breaking the trust of your parents who didn’t expect you to open your awra just yet. Again no need to tell your past to your parents or to anybody. 

3- Try not to be intimate with each other till you have moved to your husband’s home. 

4- It’s hard once exposed to intimacy, but also never expose your body in front of a camera or a phone (meaning no online intimacy with your husband), online everything (most of it) is going through the servers where videos could be recorded and shared on dark web.

 

5- This is not for you, but for any young ones reading it out there, holding off your desires before you have moved into your new home with your spouses is a litmus test of, “how much he respects you”, “how much she respects him”, “are you both Momineen who do اوفو بالعقود - meaning fulfill their trusts”, “how much he respects boundaries of your parents and his environment”, and tells a lot about the person’s overall view of Islamic ethics.

It’s a big red flag and can be used to reject a potential spouse if say they both are in Islamic engagement (no sex Mutah before the Aqd Daem) but one of them attempt to take advantage of it to get into others garments. 

 

 

 

Above written text has clearly stated the  parents' trust thing.

[AbdusSibtayn]

2 hours ago, Maisam Haider said:

This proves that you have accused me of saying something which I never said. You have lied.

You are the one who has been lying through his teeth all this while through your constant goalpost-shifting. 

I will not indulge your nonsense anymore, and if you keep repeating your calumnous accusations, I'll take it up with the admins. 

[Ashvazdanghe]

17 hours ago, Maisam Haider said:

This is a rule of Syed Sistani, not my innovation. You have done a slander against me by accusing me of innovation. You must apologize to me otherwise I will hold you responsible on the day of judgement for using foul language and slandering and lying. 

https://www.sistani.org/english/book/48/2369/

Ruling 2434. If a wife’s living expenses are borne by her husband but he does not pay for them, she can take her living expenses from his property without his consent. If this is not possible, in the event that she cannot complain to a fully qualified jurist about this and has no option but to work to meet her living expenses, then while she is working to meet her living expenses, it is not obligatory for her to obey her husband [in those matters that are normally obligatory for her to obey him].

Salam your are comparing apples with oranges which you have  misinterpreted any Fatwa about special   condition & turning your innovation into a general Fatwa which 

Quote

it is not obligatory for her to obey her husband [in those matters that are normally obligatory for her to obey him].

This is about disobeying in general matters likewise house chores which has no relation to not doing intimacy which as usual you have misinterpreted anything based on your delusional innovation .

 

[Maisam Haider]

On 8/12/2024 at 9:57 PM, AbdusSibtayn said:

You are the one who has been lying

You have still not told me where I lied because I very, very clearly replied to the OP that her action is Islamically valid. 

I will report you to the admin if you keep repeating that I am lying without bringing any evidence to support your baseless, wrongful accusation. 

Edited August 13 by Maisam Haider

[Maisam Haider]

On 8/12/2024 at 9:57 PM, AbdusSibtayn said:

I will not indulge your nonsense anymore

That's the typical response of someone who cannot bring any evidence to support his claim. 

[Maisam Haider]

15 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

disobeying in general matters likewise house chores

This is your innovation because in Islam a wife is only obligated to do two things, one of which is providing intimacy. She is not obligated to do house chores. 

[AbdusSibtayn]

7 hours ago, Maisam Haider said:

You have still not told me where I lied because I very, very clearly replied to the OP that her action is Islamically valid. 

I will report you to the admin if you keep repeating that I am lying without bringing any evidence to support your baseless, wrongful accusation. 

Since you have problems comprehending basic stuff, let me dumb it down for you-

1. It was an accusation in response to an accusation; if I have been lying, then so have been you. 

2. The OP has NOT asked about the validity of any so-called 'rukhsati' ritual, she had asked if she had commited a sin by getting intimate with her husband during the so-called 'rukhsati' period. 

On 8/1/2024 at 6:01 PM, Guest Zahra said:

About three months after our nikkah, I met my husband and, at his request, agreed to share intimacy. We were intimate twice (2 times only) after Nikkah. However, I now feel conflicted because I've heard that such intimacy before an official wedding or before Rukhsati is highly inappropriate.

Stop spamming the thread and use your brain. 

7 hours ago, Maisam Haider said:

will report you to the admin if you keep repeating that I am lying without bringing any evidence to support your baseless, wrongful accusation. 

Lol, go ahead. As if I give two hoots. 

7 hours ago, Maisam Haider said:

That's the typical response of someone who cannot bring any evidence to support his claim. 

Given that your 'responses' so far have typically involved completely irrelevant chunks of copy-pastes, you don't seem to be very adept at analyzing 'evidences'. 

This is my last response to you on this thread before putting you on ignore. 

وَعِبَادُ ٱلرَّحْمَـٰنِ ٱلَّذِينَ يَمْشُونَ عَلَى ٱلْأَرْضِ هَوْنًۭا وَإِذَا خَاطَبَهُمُ ٱلْجَـٰهِلُونَ قَالُوا۟ سَلَـٰمًۭا ٦٣

[Maisam Haider]

1 hour ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

she had asked if she had commited a sin by getting intimate with her husband during the so-called 'rukhsati' period. 

I just pity you. You must be blind or extremely retarded.

Can you show me where I said it is a sin for her to be intimate during the rukhsati period? 

Now that you have no way to answer my question, you chickened out and are running away. Shame on you. 

"Now, since they have failed to produce witnesses, they are ˹truly˺ liars in the sight of Allah." (24:13)

Edited August 14 by Maisam Haider