Why is Mahr/Dowry necessary For Mutah?

[EiE]

5 hours ago, Hameedeh said:

If you are going to make mutah for one hour, she definitely would not trust you. A woman wants to find a man who would dedicate himself to her and her future kids, if blessed with them.  

I don't want to do mutah for 1 hour. There are though people that do want to do mutah for 1 hour. They just want to have fun for 1 hour, that's their reason, nothing else.

Which in this case, the giving of Mahr would ressemble the giving of money to prostitute. If you understand what I mean.

Edited August 8 by EiE

[Askarollah]

On 7/24/2024 at 4:58 PM, EiE said:

Why is Mahr / Dowry Necessary for mutah to be valid?

Is there any aytatullah that has a different rule?

What if the woman don't have any wishes for Mahr/Dowry?

How does one explain Mahr/Dowry in modern terms without making it sound weird. So it doesn't sound like a "trade", or prostitution.

From what i've learned, you need not explain dowry to a non muslim or anything pertaining to mut'ah, You must give them a gift; you can ask them what they want, you can take them out for food for the dowry, the movies and pay for them, give them a candy bar, or whatever, and if they're inviting towards you, in such that they are showing that they would like to be with you then you as the man can recite the vows on their behalf. You needn't even mention a word of mutah to them, instead you may simply take them and do all the vows and gift subtlety.

May Allah grant you success and bless Muhammad and his progeny, and hasten the reappearance

[EiE]

1 hour ago, Askarollah said:

From what i've learned, you need not explain dowry to a non muslim or anything pertaining to mut'ah, You must give them a gift; you can ask them what they want, you can take them out for food for the dowry, the movies and pay for them, give them a candy bar, or whatever, and if they're inviting towards you, in such that they are showing that they would like to be with you then you as the man can recite the vows on their behalf. You needn't even mention a word of mutah to them, instead you may simply take them and do all the vows and gift subtlety.

Were did you hear this? first time I hear this.

You recite her vows without her knowledge? what about the time and dowry.

Also if if I remember correctly, you must specify the value of the dowry even if its a movie ticket. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

[ShiaMan14]

On 8/3/2024 at 12:18 AM, JannahLM said:

I thought it was only necessary in permanent marriage? Damn, no wonder outsiders look at mutah and mistake it for prostitution

But there is mahr in permanent marriage too so is that just an indefinite prostitution agreement?

[ShiaMan14]

On 8/2/2024 at 10:57 PM, EiE said:

Definition of Gift: something voluntarily transferred by one person to another without compensation

Is Mahr voluntarily? no. Is it without compensation? no (in this case the compensation would be becoming mahram)

Definition of Endow: to provide with something freely or naturally https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/endow

Then you also have these definitions: to furnish with an income (to make a grant of money providing for the continuing support or maintenance of).

And: to furnish with a dower

So which one is it? is it voluntarily? is it an income? is it in order to revere and demonstrate his devotion to her? or is it perhaps a trade price? It can't be all at the same time.

I gave you the definition of what an endowment is - you should read to learn rather than argue.

mahr for permanent marriage and temporary marriage is for the same reason - it is not because "she" is going to give her body to a man. It is a means to show appreciation for her and that she means more than a good time whether it is for an hour, a day, a month, a year or for life.

What is the difference between mahr in permanent marriage and temporary marriage?

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 8/8/2024 at 5:56 AM, EiE said:

Which in this case, the giving of Mahr would ressemble the giving of money to prostitute. If you understand what I mean.

Salam accusation just based on anti Shia propaganda which you are parroting any anti Shia rhetoric from anti Shia people which this is clearly a Wahabi accusation which doesn't see Mutah as a valid Islamic marriage but on the other hand anti Shia people likewise you verify innovation of  Wahabis of marriage with intention of triple divorce at one session or Jihad of nikah by Daesh a good thing  for making an excuse for making Muslim women into prostitutes based your anti Shia procedure.  . 

[EiE]

On 8/9/2024 at 12:20 AM, ShiaMan14 said:

mahr for permanent marriage and temporary marriage is for the same reason - it is not because "she" is going to give her body to a man. It is a means to show appreciation for her and that she means more than a good time whether it is for an hour, a day, a month, a year or for life.

The part that she has to decide what she wants for gift makes it seem more than just "showing appreciation for her".

Imagine doing mutah for 1 hour and then give her the Mahr she agreed upon and say "this is my appreciation for you". Do you realize how ridiculous it sounds?

Edited August 10 by EiE

[Abu Hadi]

On 8/8/2024 at 8:51 AM, Askarollah said:

From what i've learned, you need not explain dowry to a non muslim or anything pertaining to mut'ah, You must give them a gift; you can ask them what they want, you can take them out for food for the dowry, the movies and pay for them, give them a candy bar, or whatever, and if they're inviting towards you, in such that they are showing that they would like to be with you then you as the man can recite the vows on their behalf. You needn't even mention a word of mutah to them, instead you may simply take them and do all the vows and gift subtlety.

May Allah grant you success and bless Muhammad and his progeny, and hasten the reappearance

Salam 

That is incorrect. First, it is required to give a brief explanation of what Mutah is to a non Muslim. Because the lady needs to recite the aqd (agreement) and it is the man who accepts (kabiltu). If she doesn't understand what she is saying then the marriage is invalid as any marriage in Islam requires informed consent from both husband and wife. Informed consent meaning both are aware that they are married and the terms of the marriage

I understand that for a guy to pull off a valid Mutah with a non .Muslim lady requires a great deal of finesse and communication skills. The word Marriage is the most fraught and loaded word in the English language and carries with it a lot of nonsense and cultural baggage that many Western women buy into. At the same time it is the only word in English that accurately describes what Mutah is. To use a word like 'agreement' or 'contract' or 'dating' without using the word Marriage would create misunderstanding in the mind of the lady most of the time. 

Like others have said, yes technically you can have a Mutah for one hour, but I have never met a women in my life that would agree to that. It is a non issue used by the Salafis and other enemies of Ahl Al Bayt in order to create confusion around the issue. The iddah for Mutah is two monthly cycles so a lady who would do Mutah just for money could only have 1 client every two months, which isn't viable or possible to sustain a business if she intended to operate within the halal. If she were living in Europe or the US where the average salary is approx $5000 per month she would have to charge 2 months salary for 1 hour, which is $10,000. I mean if there is someone willing to pay that but I doubt it. She would not have enough customers to get this on a regular basis and the more times she did it the less willing men would be to pay. Mutah is marriage and not prostitution. 

[EiE]

I've never had a problem with Mut'ah being considered a form of marriage. My concern lies specifically with the requirement of dowry and its significance in validating the temporary marriage.

I haven't found the explanations I've received satisfactory. As I mentioned earlier, the dowry still feels more like a transaction to me. Despite several mentions in this thread that the dowry is intended as a "gift" or "endowment," I struggle to see it that way.

Edited August 11 by EiE

[Abu Hadi]

I understand your point that a 'required' gift seems like a transaction. A mahr is required in permanent marriage also so it is a requirement of Marriage in Islam and not just Mutah. If u have a problem with the Mahr in Mutah you should have a problem with Mahr in permanent marriage. 

The function of Mahr in general has already been talked about. It is a gift, and the quantity and quality of this gift depends on the two people and the circumstances of their marriage. The idea of the Mahr can accommodate all circumstances, that is why it is flexible. As I have posted before, the Mahr of Sayyida Fatima((عليه السلام)), the best women who ever existed was equivalent to approx $1200. 

Edited August 11 by Abu Hadi

[ShiaMan14]

On 8/11/2024 at 3:46 PM, Abu Hadi said:

I understand your point that a 'required' gift seems like a transaction. A mahr is required in permanent marriage also so it is a requirement of Marriage in Islam and not just Mutah. If u have a problem with the Mahr in Mutah you should have a problem with Mahr in permanent marriage. 

This is the point no one ever wants to answer.

Why is it okay to give dowry in permanent marriage but not temporary.

[ShiaMan14]

On 8/10/2024 at 6:54 AM, EiE said:

The part that she has to decide what she wants for gift makes it seem more than just "showing appreciation for her".

Imagine doing mutah for 1 hour and then give her the Mahr she agreed upon and say "this is my appreciation for you". Do you realize how ridiculous it sounds?

How would this practically work? Please explain.

E.g. driving down main street and finding "someone" to pick up for an hour?

[wolverine]

From the book What A Bride Needs to Know. 

Mahr, (plural: muhoor) The gift presented to the bride by the groom

Al-mahr al-mithl The mahr that is traditional in the family

Al-mahr al-musammaa The mahr that is mentioned in the ‘aqd and agreed by the wife

Al-mahr al-sunnah The mahr that was given to Sayyidah Fatimah Zahra AS: 500 dirhams

FWIW: Malaysian Shias that I know usually convert the mehr for their wedding to an amount that is between $100 and $110 in US dollars, whatever the amount is for that wedding day. Very insignificant amount. Not gold coins like in some countries.