Advisory services to non-muslim social media management company

[Jaffari]

Salamun Aliukum, 

I am writing to seek thoughts of brothers and sisters on a professional matter:

A Muslim-owned accounting firm, which provides accounting and tax compliance services to hundreds of clients, has been approached by a non-Muslim owned social media management company for same services. No involvement whatsoever, in the business operations and typically we'd accept this appointment. However the potential client is also a friends and has confirmed that they will be managing accounts of models who will have accounts on an "indecent" platform sharing their photos etc, which may include partial nudity. 

thoughts on accepting this appointment please 1, on a standard fee arrangement or 2, if all the profit from this clint is sent to a charity. 

JazakAllah

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 7/19/2024 at 8:42 AM, Jaffari said:

1, on a standard fee arrangement or 2, if all the profit from this clint is sent to a charity. 

Salam generally it must at least follows westerner modesty codes & tries to apply  Islamic codes of modesty & preventing nudity as much as possible .

2.If your income will be Halal so then you can decide whether to spend it for yourself or give it to Charity but on the other hand if it will be Haram income so then even giving it to charity won't purify it & won't fix the problem . 

[Abu Hadi]

15 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam generally it must at least follows westerner modesty codes & tries to apply  Islamic codes of modesty & preventing nudity as much as possible .

2.If your income will be Halal so then you can decide whether to spend it for yourself or give it to Charity but on the other hand if it will be Haram income so then even giving it to charity won't purify it & won't fix the problem . 

He said his firm provides accounting and tax compliance services, so they (his firm) would not be involved in business operations of the company they are providing the service for. 

According to my knowledge, I don't see a problem with taking this account so long as neither you nor your firm is involved in any way with the business operations that include supporting and giving a platform to this indecent content. Also, because the client is producing indecent content, you cannot do anything to promote their business (aside from providing the service of tax and compliance) such as appearing in advertising with them, doing joint business projects outside the scope of tax and compliance, or doing any sorts of endorsements of their business. 

From a fiqh point of view, according to my knowledge, it is the same as if one of these models who produces indecent content went to the store to buy groceries. The grocery store can sell her / him groceries, and this would be perfectly halal. The grocery store is not involved in her/ his business in any way. If the grocery store, for example, put up flyers or posters or other kinds of advertising that promoted the business (indecent content), this would be haram and the owner or the one who decided to do that would be responsible before Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) since they are promoting fahish (corrupt acts) directly. 

If you think there is a possibility that you will somehow get involved directly with supporting or promoting this content, then I would avoid this client. If there is no possibility of this, then I think it's ok. Salam. 

[Haji 2003]

13 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

The grocery store can sell her / him groceries, and this would be perfectly halal. The grocery store is not involved in her/ his business in any way. If the grocery store, for example, put up flyers or posters or other kinds of advertising that promoted the business (indecent content), this would be haram and the owner or the one who decided to do that would be responsible before Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) since they are promoting fahish (corrupt acts) directly. 

This makes sense.

In the spirit of discussion rather than illuminating people with my non-existent knowledge in this space, here's my 2 cents.

The OP provides accounting and compliance services. These can range from off-the-shelf services which simply address the legal and other compliance needs of a firm to those which can involve advising the client about making the business more efficient, liable to less tax and so on.

I don't know if I am extending the grocery store analogy appropriately, but the above would be similar to the assistant advising the customer about what make-up products would suit them best.

So, it is not promotion, strictly speaking, but advice that improves the success of the business. 

Personally, I would find that problematic.

Just to be clear, for those people who have lived a sheltered life, without wanting to be rude it seems as if the OPs friend is basically a pimp.

[Abu Hadi]

10 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

This makes sense.

In the spirit of discussion rather than illuminating people with my non-existence knowledge in this space, here's my 2 cents.

The OP provides accounting and compliance services. These can range from off-the-shelf services which simply address the legal and other compliance needs of a firm to those which can involve advising the client about making the business more efficient, liable to less tax and so on.

I don't know if I am extending the grocery store analogy appropriately, but the above would be similar to the assistant advising the customer about what make-up products would suit them best.

So, it is not promotion, strictly speaking, but advice that improves the success of the business. 

Personally, I would find that problematic.

Just to be clear, for those people who have lived a sheltered life, without wanting to be rude it seems as if the OPs friend is basically a pimp.

 

Like I said before, I would avoid it personally, but from an Islamic perspective in order to be guilty of a sin, you must either do it yourself or you must be a partner in the sin with the other person, helping them to commit it. If you are not doing it, and not assisting them in committing the sin, then you have no responsibility before Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

I understand that the 'assisting' part is tricky and could be a slippery slope, but what I have seen as far as assisting is actively assisting in the sense that without your assistance, they would not be able to commit the sin. If your assisting them or not assisting them would have no effect on them committing the sin, then this is not active assistance. If you want to define 'assistance' as any form of assistance including passive or secondary, then there is noone who is not guilty. I used the grocery store example because the guy selling this lady the groceries could be viewed as 'assisting her' passively since you need food to eat, so the food he is selling her is giving her the energy to commit the sin. You see how including passive or secondary assistance is problematic 

He needs to ask himself am I helping her directly in doing the sin (making videos for her, giving her money, promoting her 'product', etc). He is not doing that. Then he needs to ask himself am I a partner with her in the sin such that if he withdrew his services would this affect her ability to commit the sin. From what he said, it wouldn't. She could still do the sin without his services and him withdrawing his services would have no effect on whether she commits the sin or not. So that is how I came to my conclusion. If I am wrong and I am missing something, please correct me.

His only duty in this case is to tell his 'friend' that producing this type of content or supporting it is haram, it is corruption, and he will be accountable before Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) for this act. That is his responsibility so far as Amr Bil Maroof wa Nahiya Al Munkhar, assuming the guy is a Muslim. After he tells him this, his 'friend' might want to retain the services of another company, or not but in either case the brother has done his wajibat. 

Also, if producing this type of content is his primary business and his main source of income then this makes it even more problematic to retain him as a client and I would say out of ihtiyat he should avoid clients like this. 

Salam. 

[Jaffari]

5 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

Like I said before, I would avoid it personally, but from an Islamic perspective in order to be guilty of a sin, you must either do it yourself or you must be a partner in the sin with the other person, helping them to commit it. If you are not doing it, and not assisting them in committing the sin, then you have no responsibility before Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

I understand that the 'assisting' part is tricky and could be a slippery slope, but what I have seen as far as assisting is actively assisting in the sense that without your assistance, they would not be able to commit the sin. If your assisting them or not assisting them would have no effect on them committing the sin, then this is not active assistance. If you want to define 'assistance' as any form of assistance including passive or secondary, then there is noone who is not guilty. I used the grocery store example because the guy selling this lady the groceries could be viewed as 'assisting her' passively since you need food to eat, so the food he is selling her is giving her the energy to commit the sin. You see how including passive or secondary assistance is problematic 

He needs to ask himself am I helping her directly in doing the sin (making videos for her, giving her money, promoting her 'product', etc). He is not doing that. Then he needs to ask himself am I a partner with her in the sin such that if he withdrew his services would this affect her ability to commit the sin. From what he said, it wouldn't. She could still do the sin without his services and him withdrawing his services would have no effect on whether she commits the sin or not. So that is how I came to my conclusion. If I am wrong and I am missing something, please correct me.

His only duty in this case is to tell his 'friend' that producing this type of content or supporting it is haram, it is corruption, and he will be accountable before Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) for this act. That is his responsibility so far as Amr Bil Maroof wa Nahiya Al Munkhar, assuming the guy is a Muslim. After he tells him this, his 'friend' might want to retain the services of another company, or not but in either case the brother has done his wajibat. 

Also, if producing this type of content is his primary business and his main source of income then this makes it even more problematic to retain him as a client and I would say out of ihtiyat he should avoid clients like this. 

Salam. 

Salam Aliukum, 

JazakAllah for taking time to respond in such detailed manner to what I believe is a "tricky" area. 

So firstly, I have already, all but refused the appointment at the very first discussion, as I felt unease, as I did when we refused a PUB chain as a client a few weeks ago. However, I wanted to look into this in further detail, as if it wasn't for the directors to explain what some of their work may involve, we would have accepted the appointment, as we support other Digital Marketing agencies, that, for all we know, may have similar clients.

I have discussed this with a few Ulema, who may or may not have fully understood the nature of this, and I further await response from the office of Ayatullah Sistani and a couple others. The responses so far, further confused me; first one being ' Your work is Jaayiz and we see no issues as long as you are not employed by the company. Second one: Your work is jaayiz, however, make sure you are not involved in marketing, growth or publicity of this work. Third one has similar views and confirm the work itself is OK as long as you are not directly receiving wages from the company, however, for me to then not intend to collect the 'work wages' but to receive the fee as a 'rescue of funds from non-muslims' 

So this has somewhat further confused me! 

A couple of facts about the actual company and scope of work: 

So the directors of the digital agency are non-muslims.

They confirm the majority of the 'posts' are not what can be classed as containing 'nudity'.

Whether we take this appointment or not, will have no bearing on their business' success, as we only produce accounts based on company's actual financial performance. 

Do we then also have a responsibility to go beyond our professional due diligence to investigate what sort of work our other clients get involved in.

[Jaffari]

5 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

Like I said before, I would avoid it personally, but from an Islamic perspective in order to be guilty of a sin, you must either do it yourself or you must be a partner in the sin with the other person, helping them to commit it. If you are not doing it, and not assisting them in committing the sin, then you have no responsibility before Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

I understand that the 'assisting' part is tricky and could be a slippery slope, but what I have seen as far as assisting is actively assisting in the sense that without your assistance, they would not be able to commit the sin. If your assisting them or not assisting them would have no effect on them committing the sin, then this is not active assistance. If you want to define 'assistance' as any form of assistance including passive or secondary, then there is noone who is not guilty. I used the grocery store example because the guy selling this lady the groceries could be viewed as 'assisting her' passively since you need food to eat, so the food he is selling her is giving her the energy to commit the sin. You see how including passive or secondary assistance is problematic 

He needs to ask himself am I helping her directly in doing the sin (making videos for her, giving her money, promoting her 'product', etc). He is not doing that. Then he needs to ask himself am I a partner with her in the sin such that if he withdrew his services would this affect her ability to commit the sin. From what he said, it wouldn't. She could still do the sin without his services and him withdrawing his services would have no effect on whether she commits the sin or not. So that is how I came to my conclusion. If I am wrong and I am missing something, please correct me.

Staying with the grocery store analogy here, the guy may be actively helping the lady with beauty products and whatnot, we are approached by the guy, and not the lady, to complete grocery stores' financial accounts and taxes. 

[Ashvazdanghe]

8 hours ago, Jaffari said:

Do we then also have a responsibility to go beyond our professional due diligence to investigate what sort of work our other clients get involved in.

Salam You must make sure that they won't spread nudity & other Haram things by using your service which you must mention it in your contract with them & mentione redlines & limits for their business when they are using your service .

8 hours ago, Jaffari said:

however, for me to then not intend to collect the 'work wages' but to receive the fee as a 'rescue of funds from non-muslims' 

You can provide service for them which you can receive  fees or etc  for offering your service according to your contract by mentioning red lines & limits but on the other hand you can't promote their business . 

[Abu Hadi]

Salam. 

The way I understand jaayiz in this  context is that if u were jaayiz you would be compensated for selling this Haram content directly, ie you would be getting direct benefit from it. In other words if more of this content is produced, you would get paid more and vice versa.

From what u explained about the situation you are not jaayiz for this content specifically but you are paid a fee to do consulting work for the company which sells a variety of social media products and the Haram content is not their primary source of income. That is why they said it is ok. 

Your case is similar to doing consulting for a grocery store here in the US that sells alcohol. Since alcohol is not their primary source of income and you are not compensated by them based on their sale of specifically alcohol, ie you are not jaayiz for the alcohol it is ok to do business with them and do consulting and tax services for them. 

Edited July 23, 2024 by Abu Hadi

[Jaffari]

1 hour ago, Abu Hadi said:

Salam. 

The way I understand jaayiz in this  context is that if u were jaayiz you would be compensated for selling this Haram content directly, ie you would be getting direct benefit from it. In other words if more of this content is produced, you would get paid more and vice versa.

From what u explained about the situation you are not jaayiz for this content specifically but you are paid a fee to do consulting work for the company which sells a variety of social media products and the Haram content is not their primary source of income. That is why they said it is ok. 

Your case is similar to doing consulting for a grocery store here in the US that sells alcohol. Since alcohol is not their primary source of income and you are not compensated by them based on their sale of specifically alcohol, ie you are not jaayiz for the alcohol it is ok to do business with them and do consulting and tax services for them. 

Salam Aliukum, Thank you for your response. By 'Jaayiz' I meant they confirm that my work is permitted and as such, they see no issues in accepting this client, through our company as long as the nature of work is accounting and tax, provided at an arm's length, without any involvement in the operations. What has confused is the use of ' istinqadh', which I understand very little about. Reading up on it, it appears that according to Sistani sb, 'Instinqadh' can then be used in most of the cases, when dealing with Non-Muslims?

[Abu Hadi]

8 hours ago, Jaffari said:

Salam Aliukum, Thank you for your response. By 'Jaayiz' I meant they confirm that my work is permitted and as such, they see no issues in accepting this client, through our company as long as the nature of work is accounting and tax, provided at an arm's length, without any involvement in the operations. What has confused is the use of ' istinqadh', which I understand very little about. Reading up on it, it appears that according to Sistani sb, 'Instinqadh' can then be used in most of the cases, when dealing with Non-Muslims?

Istinqadh in this context means recovering money or resources from non muslims that belong to muslims.

Here are some examples of how this term is used by Sayyid Sistani. Example 1

Question: [Lottery] is a well-known game in America and is the closest thing to [yanasib], if it is not exactly the same. Is it permissible for a Muslim to engage in the sale of lotteries with special machines with the justification that it is rescuing (istinqadh) wealth from the hands of the unbelievers?

Answer: If he is authorized by an established company to offer and distribute them (lottery tickets) among non-Muslims, then it is permitted and he should seize the wealth with the justification of rescuing (istinqadh) it and not with the intent of selling (the lottery tickets). Alternatively, the Muslim seller takes it (money) in return for his relinquishment of his right (over the lottery tickets), if he had any special right over them.

https://www.sistani.org/english/qa/01240/

Example 2

We have received many questions regarding ruling no. 1231 from the book Minhaj al-Salihin and the new details mentioned in its footnote regarding the possibility of being exempt from khums due to specific types of debt and whether this ruling applies to mortgages.

It is vital that we clarify the following terminology before explaining the ruling.

Living expenses: All yearly expenses that cover a person’s needs and the needs of their dependents (e.g., shelter, food, and clothing) and are appropriate for their shan[1] or standard of living, which varies based on time, place, situation, and circumstances.

Continuous living expenses: Every expense that covers a person’s needs and the needs of their dependents on a continuous basis, such as a home, car, furniture, and other such necessities. These expenses do not include anything spent for once or temporarily such as the following:

marriage expenses

education expenses

medical expenses for a temporary illness

Khums (fifth): A yearly financial obligation that requires payment of twenty percent of the total profits, benefits received, and returns, after deducting living expenses.

Debt: Money that someone owes to another person or an entity like a bank due to the purchase of something (e.g., real-estate or a car) using a debt instrument, credit, or from taking a monetary loan.[2] However, it is not permissible to take a loan or buy on credit if doing so involves usury or interest, even if it is taken from a non-Muslim entity, except by considering it istinqadh (see paragraph below).[3]

[3] Istinqadh is a jurisprudential term that means taking money from a non-Muslim entity, such as a bank; it is permissible.

https://imam-us.org/clarification-on-exempting-a-debtor-from-khums

 

What he is saying is that there are certain business transactions that need to be done with this intention, otherwise they are haram. If you follow Sayyid Sistani as your marjaa' and he says this transaction requires the niyyat (intention) of istinqadh, then you need to have this intention while doing it. 

Edited July 23, 2024 by Abu Hadi