Jump to content
In the Name of God بسم الله

Allahyari, a fitnah right now in India and Pakistan is a CIA asset. (URDU)

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

  • Site Administrators
On 6/19/2024 at 5:07 PM, foxmccloud said:

for me, it seems like the pro-iran militias support this idea of prohibiting the cursing of sahaba's and others. but as far as i understood, some iraqi militias which were not pro-iran do curse the sahabas and or caliphs. and they fought salafis and wahabbis in 2003+. maybe you are more knowledgeable about this topic to me, i must admit that.

but as far as i've learned and read there is nothing wrong with cursing the enemies and caliphs. except in public. am i wrong? i'm not talking about cursing Sunni's but the caliphs. i do not understand why people say that allahyari is wrong for that. again, if you are more knowledgeable then please tell me, i'm not here to fight but to learn

Pro Iranian militia(whatever that means) are the only ones fighting when push comes to shove. That's the point. All this talk about allegiance and cursing out loud counts for nothing when they go hiding as soon as the same people they curse show up.

No you are not wrong, cursing any enemy of the ahlul bayt is allowed. But as i said, a time and place and more importantly priority. The yazids and muawiyas of today are walking around killing and robbing muslims, while some of us find it appropriate to curse someone who died 1400 years ago. 

Imam Khomeini quote: "whilst we are fighting about wether or not we should fold our hands during prayer, the enemy is plotting how to chop our hands off and rob us"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

Islamic Résistance (Shia Majority) are against cursing for two reasons, 

1. It's very bad aklaq. (This has already been covered)

2. There are many Sunni Brothers in the Islamic Resistance and they fight alongside Shia. You think everyone in Hezb, Hajj Sha3abi, etc, is Shia ? Most are but there is a large minority who are Sunni and even there are some Christians who are fighters in these. So for practical reasons you don't want to upset or annoy your brothers in the resistance struggle against the Thalimeen. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
9 hours ago, root said:

80% of sunnis don't even know what a shia is and what we stand for, how well do you think you will attract that bunch by cursing out the people they hold dear?

You attract people by standing firm in your beliefs and not watering them down to appease people. Im sure us doing la'na is not the tipping point to these people to become shia or not and if it is i couldnt care less, why would i wanna appease brainless people

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
8 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

It's very bad aklaq. (This has already been covered)

i think its very bad akhlaq when they praise the sahaba in front of me, quite frankly i find it abusive, but no one cares about my shia feelings

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
On 6/19/2024 at 5:22 PM, root said:

Pro Iranian militia(whatever that means) are the only ones fighting when push comes to shove. That's the point. All this talk about allegiance and cursing out loud counts for nothing when they go hiding as soon as the same people they curse show up.

No you are not wrong, cursing any enemy of the ahlul bayt is allowed. But as i said, a time and place and more importantly priority. The yazids and muawiyas of today are walking around killing and robbing muslims, while some of us find it appropriate to curse someone who died 1400 years ago. 

Imam Khomeini quote: "whilst we are fighting about wether or not we should fold our hands during prayer, the enemy is plotting how to chop our hands off and rob us"

I still do not understand, i thought Tabarra was like Furoo a din. It is essential to distance yourself from the enemies. So the concept of non-cursers or curses in an army does not make sense for me. I thought you had to distance yourself from the  3 caliphs and do la'an. So whether or not you fight in an army or militia or army, if you are shia and love the ahl al bayt, you love who they love, and you hate who they hate. And if somebody steals the caliphate of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) then that person should not be respected.

How can you respect/love your mother if you do not hate your mother's killer. What kind of respect/love is that then?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
On 6/19/2024 at 5:29 AM, EiE said:

Do you have source for fatwa? thank you.

Text of the Fatwa

Ayatollah Khamenei, in response to the question of Shia scholars in al-Ahsa Governorate of Saudi Arabia regarding the insult to Aisha, the wife of the Prophet (s), issued a fatwa on September 30, 2010:

“Insulting figures and symbols celebrated by Sunni brethren, including the wife of the Prophet of Islam [Aisha] is prohibited. This includes the wives of all prophets, particularly the master of all prophets Muhammad (May God’s greetings be upon him and his household).” [8]

[8] Ayatollah Khamenei’s fatwa: Insulting the Mother of the Faithful Aisha is prohibited
Jun 11, 2016

This is not the only case wherein Ayatollah Khamenei has called insulting Aisha and other Sunni sanctities as haram (religiously forbidden).

Quote

The question was brought up after a supposed Shia clergyman, who fled to Britain as a refugee, launched a Television channel with the help of the British government; he used his channel to insult Aisha, the Prophet’s wife: the clergyman falsely described his act as Shia belief.

https://english.khamenei.ir/news/3905/Ayatollah-Khamenei-s-fatwa-Insulting-the-Mother-of-the-Faithful

Quote

Fatwa on the prohibition of insulting the sanctities of the Sunnis is the fatwa of Ayatollah Khamenei, the Supreme Leader of the Islamic Republic of Iran, on the prohibition of insulting the figures and symbols of the Sunnis and the wives of the Prophet (s). This fatwa was issued in reaction to the insult of Kuwaiti Shia cleric Yasir al-Habib to Aisha, the wife of the Prophet (s), and the collective question of Saudi Shia scholars.

Fatwa on the prohibition of insulting the sanctities of the Sunnis was widely reported in the 'Arab media. Also, some Shia and Sunni religious figures considered its issuance in support of Muslim unity.

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Fatwa_on_the_prohibition_of_insulting_the_sanctities_of_the_Sunnis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatwa_of_Ali_Khamenei_against_insulting_revered_Sunni_figures

Iran leader wins plaudits over sectarian strife fatwa

By Reuters

October 13, 2010

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE6930AA/

 

No Shia is allowed to insult Sunnis: Ayatollah Khamenei
Sep 20, 2016

The Leader of the Islamic Revolution, recurrently, put emphasis on the significance of establishing unity among Muslims: making it clear, that any form of insult, projected towards Sunni scholars, would prevent the rational and documented foundations of belief in the Imamate from being heard. Additionally, stating that, " Do not incite emotions of the Sunni community. Some people feel, in order to prove themselves as Shia, they need to insult Sunni figures. This goes against the mannerisms of the infallible imams. The fact, that there are TV stations launched to insult (Sunni figures) well, makes it crystal clear that they are funded by the British Treasury; this is British Shiism. This game, of insults, will have a contrary function.  When you insult others, the words of truth won't be heard," and that "Inciting emotions among other branches of Islam, in the name of Shiism, is actually the approach of 'British Shi'ism'--whose outcome would be the emergence of vicious groups and mercenaries from the U.S., and the U.K’s intelligence services, such as ISIS, Al-Nusra Front, and terrorist groups--who have committed multiple crimes and destruction in the region.”

Quote

The Supreme Leader also advised all Shias to be an adornment for the Progeny of the Prophet (pbut) by following their example, upholding that: “One who gives in to bribery, or seeks from public funds beyond what he deserves, or turns a blind eye to evil, and takes no responsibility for guiding the society, is no adornment for the Islamic establishment and society, he is in fact a disgrace for all Shias.”

https://english.khamenei.ir/news/4164/No-Shia-is-allowed-to-insult-Sunnis-Ayatollah-Khamenei

 

Ayatollah Khamenei Condoles Martyrdom Of Iranian Sunni Cleric

https://shiastudies.com/en/17753/ayatollah-khamenei-condoles-martyrdom-iranian-sunni-cleric/

On 6/19/2024 at 2:20 AM, foxmccloud said:

I don't understand. Isnt this Batri? Not cursing the enemies of Allah and Ahl al Bayt.

Arent we supposed to distance ourselves from their enemies?

Why should we care if they curse our Imams. They have no love for the grandchildern of the prophet like Imam Hussain so why do you think they would have love now? 

I think it is mandatory to curse the enemies, but not infront of them.

Sorry i might have misunderstood you

Salam , this is a lable which has been used by so called British Shiism by both of so called Allahyari & Shirazi grouplet for insulating their Shia opponents .

Distancing ourselves from enemies of Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) has been supposed on all Shias but on the other hand using bad mouthing  & insulting have not been allowed .

If you have found an open  Nasibi who has "no love for the grandchildern of the prophet like Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) so " then you can don't love the  open  Nasibi .

cursing the enemies of Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) is mandatory whether in front or back of them but cursing a fair sunni who has a wrong mindset has not been allowed which at first you must try to fix his/her wrong mindset politely.

Thank you which at least you have trie to fix  your misunderstanding & learn .

 

On 6/19/2024 at 5:07 PM, foxmccloud said:

for me, it seems like the pro-iran militias support this idea of prohibiting the cursing of sahaba's and others. but as far as i understood, some iraqi militias which were not pro-iran do curse the sahabas and or caliphs. and they fought salafis and wahabbis in 2003+. maybe you are more knowledgeable about this topic to me, i must admit that.

but as far as i've learned and read there is nothing wrong with cursing the enemies and caliphs. except in public. am i wrong? i'm not talking about cursing Sunni's but the caliphs. i do not understand why people say that allahyari is wrong for that. again, if you are more knowledgeable then please tell me, i'm not here to fight but to learn

as @root has mentioned it has no relation to being pro Iran or not ; which your assumption is just based on propaganda of  salafis and wahabbis in 2003+ against all shia fighters specially Iraqi militants for causing rift between Shia resistance fighters besides of turning neutral Sunnis against Shias by spreading such rumors by accusing Iraqi militants to cursing "the sahabas and or caliphs" 

 

Only radical Sunnis likeiwes salafis and wahabbis have no problem with cursing enemies of 3 Sunni Caliphs but on the other hand they are cursing Amir-al-muminin Imam Ali (عليه السلام) , although he has been their fourth caliph & praising his enemies  ;  

Allahayari clearly a hate monger which Wahabi suicide bombers  have been watching his hateful videos before committing suicided bombing for having enough motivation for blasting themselves between innocent Shia Muslims  . :censored:

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
1 hour ago, foxmccloud said:

I still do not understand, i thought Tabarra was like Furoo a din. It is essential to distance yourself from the enemies. So the concept of non-cursers or curses in an army does not make sense for me. I thought you had to distance yourself from the  3 caliphs and do la'an. So whether or not you fight in an army or militia or army, if you are shia and love the ahl al bayt, you love who they love, and you hate who they hate. And if somebody steals the caliphate of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) then that person should not be respected.

Salam

"Sabb" in the word means insulting and abusing and describing another person to what is his defect and humiliation. (1)

Cursing means rejecting and driving away with anger. If the curse is from Allah, it means punishment in the hereafter, and in this world, it means cutting off from accepting His mercy and success. And if it is from a human, it means praying and cursing and asking for the harm of others. (2)

"Sabb" (Obscenity) is different from cursing; In some places in the Qur'an, a group has been cursed, but it clearly forbids Sabb.

In the words of the Imams (peace be upon them), Sab سب (reviling/abusing) and La'an (cursing) are  separated. When Amir Mu'minan Ali (peace be upon him) observed that in the Battle of Siffin, his companions have been reviling/abusing the Companions of Muawiyah, his majesty clearly explained his position: " «إِنِّي أَكْرَهُ لَكُمْ أَنْ تَكُونُوا سَبَّابِين؛‏  I don't like you to be revilers (abusers) , but if instead of reviling their actions, you advise them and mention their position, it is closer to the truth and better for completing the proof." (4)

Imam Sadiq (peace be upon him) said: The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him and his progeny) said: "a Slandering (reviler/abuser) believer is like someone who is on the precipice of destruction." (5)

As a result, according to the Qur'an and Sab's narrations, according to the holy law of Islam, it is forbidden; But cursing is permissible only in some cases.

(4) Kafi , v 2 , p 359

(5) Ibid

https://www.pasokhgoo.ir/content/امام-علي-ع-می‌گویند-که-دوست-ندارم-شما-دشنام-دهيد-و-آن‌ها-را-لعن-کنيد،-بلکه-اگر-حالات-آن‌ها

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

The religion is not as complicated as people try to make it out to be. Our core references are the Quran and the Ahlulbayt.  This is where we take our teachings from. 

Those people who have been told that cursing the caliphs is a part of the religion need to go back and study the texts. The Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) did no such thing. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Abu_Zahra said:

Those people who have been told that cursing the caliphs is a part of the religion need to go back and study the texts. The Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) did no such thing. 

عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ أَبِيهِ عَنْ حَنَانِ بْنِ سَدِيرٍ وَ مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ إِسْمَاعِيلَ عَنْ حَنَانِ بْنِ سَدِيرٍ عَنْ أَبِيهِ قَالَ سَأَلْتُ أَبَا جَعْفَرٍ (عليه السلام) عَنْهُمَا فَقَالَ يَا أَبَا الْفَضْلِ مَا تَسْأَلُنِي عَنْهُمَا فَوَ اللَّهِ مَا مَاتَ مِنَّا مَيِّتٌ قَطُّ إِلَّا سَاخِطاً عَلَيْهِمَا وَ مَا مِنَّا الْيَوْمَ إِلَّا سَاخِطاً عَلَيْهِمَا يُوصِي بِذَلِكَ الْكَبِيرُ مِنَّا الصَّغِيرَ إِنَّهُمَا ظَلَمَانَا حَقَّنَا وَ مَنَعَانَا فَيْئَنَا وَ كَانَا أَوَّلَ مَنْ رَكِبَ أَعْنَاقَنَا وَ بَثَقَا عَلَيْنَا بَثْقاً فِي الْإِسْلَامِ لَا يُسْكَرُ أَبَداً حَتَّى يَقُومَ قَائِمُنَا أَوْ يَتَكَلَّمَ مُتَكَلِّمُنَا ثُمَّ قَالَ أَمَا وَ اللَّهِ لَوْ قَدْ قَامَ قَائِمُنَا أَوْ تَكَلَّمَ مُتَكَلِّمُنَا لَأَبْدَى مِنْ أُمُورِهِمَا مَا كَانَ يُكْتَمُ وَ لَكَتَمَ مِنْ أُمُورِهِمَا مَا كَانَ يُظْهَرُ وَ اللَّهِ مَا أُسِّسَتْ مِنْ بَلِيَّةٍ وَ لَا قَضِيَّةٍ تَجْرِي عَلَيْنَا أَهْلَ الْبَيْتِ إِلَّا هُمَا أَسَّسَا أَوَّلَهَا فَعَلَيْهِمَا لَعْنَةُ اللَّهِ وَ الْمَلَائِكَةِ وَ النَّاسِ أَجْمَعِينَ.

340. Ali Bin Ibrahim, from his father, from hanaan Bin Sudeyr, and Muhammad Bin Yahya, from Ahmad Bin Muhammad, from Muhammad Bin Ismail, from Hanaan Bin Sudeyr, from his father who said: I asked Abu Ja’far (asws) about the two, so he (asws) said: ‘O Abu Al-Fazl, don’t ask me about these two, for by Allah (azwj), no one from among us (asws) passes away at all except being angry against these two, and there is none from us (asws) today except that he (asws) is angry at them. The old ones bequeath it to the young ones from us (asws). These two have been unjust to us (asws) for our (asws) rights, and prevented us (asws) from our (asws) Fey (Spoils of War – Khums), and first one rode upon our (asws) necks, and caused damage to us (asws) with a damage in Al-Islam which can never be repaired ever until our (asws) Qaim (asws) makes a stand and speaks our (asws) speech’. Then he (asws) said; ‘But, by Allah (azwj), when our (asws) Qaim (asws) makes a stand, or speaks our (asws) speech, he (asws) will expose the matters of these two of what they had concealed, and conceal from their matters what they used to make apparent. By Allah (azwj), nothing has afflicted us (asws) from the afflictions, and what has passed of the difficulties against us (asws), the People (asws) of the Household, except that these two laid the foundations of it at first place, so against these two are the Curses of Allah (azwj), and the Angels, and the people altogether’.

Al-Kāfi - Volume 8, The question of Sadir from Abu Ja’far AS, Hadith #1

https://thaqalayn.net/hadith/8/1/340/1

Grading:

Allamah Baqir al-Majlisi: حسن أو موثق - Mir‘at al ‘Uqul Fi Sharh Akhbar Al al Rasul (6 / 212)

 

حَنَانٌ عَنْ أَبِيهِ عَنْ أَبِي جَعْفَرٍ (عليه السلام) قَالَ قُلْتُ لَهُ مَا كَانَ وُلْدُ يَعْقُوبَ أَنْبِيَاءَ قَالَ لَا وَ لَكِنَّهُمْ كَانُوا أَسْبَاطَ أَوْلَادِ الْأَنْبِيَاءِ وَ لَمْ يَكُنْ يُفَارِقُوا الدُّنْيَا إِلَّا سُعَدَاءَ تَابُوا وَ تَذَكَّرُوا مَا صَنَعُوا وَ إِنَّ الشَّيْخَيْنِ فَارَقَا الدُّنْيَا وَ لَمْ يَتُوبَا وَ لَمْ يَتَذَكَّرَا مَا صَنَعَا بِأَمِيرِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ (عليه السلام) فَعَلَيْهِمَا لَعْنَةُ اللَّهِ وَ الْمَلَائِكَةِ وَ النَّاسِ أَجْمَعِينَ.

343. Hanaan, from his father, who has said that Abu Ja’far ((عليه السلام).) said, when I said to him, ‘What were the children of Ya'qub ((عليه السلام).), were they prophets?’ He said: ‘No, but they were the grandchildren of the children of the Prophets, and they did not depart from the world except as happy, repentant, and remembered what they had done, and the Shaykhayn departed from the world, they did not repent nor did they ever remember what they had done to the Commander of The Faithful ((عليه السلام).), so upon these two be the curse of Allah, the angels, and the people altogether.‘

Al-Kāfi - Volume 8, Repentance of the children of Ya’qub AS, Hadith #1

https://thaqalayn.net/hadith/8/1/343/1

Grading:

Allamah Baqir al-Majlisi: حسن أو موثق - Mir‘at al ‘Uqul Fi Sharh Akhbar Al al Rasul (6 / 215)

 

عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ أَبِيهِ عَنِ ابْنِ مَحْبُوبٍ عَنْ عَلِيِّ بْنِ رِئَابٍ وَ يَعْقُوبَ السَّرَّاجِ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ( عليه السلام ) أَنَّ أَمِيرَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ ( عليه السلام ) لَمَّا بُويِعَ بَعْدَ مَقْتَلِ عُثْمَانَ صَعِدَ الْمِنْبَرَ فَقَالَ الْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ الَّذِي عَلَا فَاسْتَعْلَى وَ دَنَا فَتَعَالَى وَ ارْتَفَعَ فَوْقَ كُلِّ مَنْظَرٍ وَ أَشْهَدُ أَنْ لَا إِلَهَ إِلَّا اللَّهُ وَحْدَهُ لَا شَرِيكَ لَهُ وَ أَشْهَدُ أَنَّ مُحَمَّداً عَبْدُهُ وَ رَسُولُهُ خَاتَمُ النَّبِيِّينَ وَ حُجَّةُ اللَّهِ عَلَى الْعَالَمِينَ مُصَدِّقاً لِلرُّسُلِ الْأَوَّلِينَ وَ كَانَ بِالْمُؤْمِنِينَ رَءُوفاً رَحِيماً فَصَلَّى اللَّهُ وَ مَلَائِكَتُهُ عَلَيْهِ وَ عَلَى آلِهِ أَمَّا بَعْدُ أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ فَإِنَّ الْبَغْيَ يَقُودُ أَصْحَابَهُ إِلَى النَّارِ وَ إِنَّ أَوَّلَ مَنْ بَغَى عَلَى اللَّهِ جَلَّ ذِكْرُهُ عَنَاقُ بِنْتُ آدَمَ وَ أَوَّلَ قَتِيلٍ قَتَلَهُ اللَّهُ عَنَاقُ وَ كَانَ مَجْلِسُهَا جَرِيباً [مِنَ الْأَرْضِ] فِي جَرِيبٍ وَ كَانَ لَهَا عِشْرُونَ إِصْبَعاً فِي كُلِّ إِصْبَعٍ ظُفُرَانِ مِثْلُ الْمِنْجَلَيْنِ فَسَلَّطَ اللَّهُ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ عَلَيْهَا أَسَداً كَالْفِيلِ وَ ذِئْباً كَالْبَعِيرِ وَ نَسْراً مِثْلَ الْبَغْلِ فَقَتَلُوهَا وَ قَدْ قَتَلَ اللَّهُ الْجَبَابِرَةَ عَلَى أَفْضَلِ أَحْوَالِهِمْ وَ آمَنِ مَا كَانُوا وَ أَمَاتَ هَامَانَ وَ أَهْلَكَ فِرْعَوْنَ وَ قَدْ قُتِلَ عُثْمَانُ أَلَا وَ إِنَّ بَلِيَّتَكُمْ قَدْ عَادَتْ كَهَيْئَتِهَا يَوْمَ بَعَثَ اللَّهُ نَبِيَّهُ ( صلى الله عليه وآله ) وَ الَّذِي بَعَثَهُ بِالْحَقِّ لَتُبَلْبَلُنَّ بَلْبَلَةً وَ لَتُغَرْبَلُنَّ غَرْبَلَةً وَ لَتُسَاطُنَّ سَوْطَةَ الْقِدْرِ حَتَّى يَعُودَ أَسْفَلُكُمْ أَعْلَاكُمْ وَ أَعْلَاكُمْ أَسْفَلَكُمْ وَ لَيَسْبِقَنَّ سَابِقُونَ كَانُوا قَصَّرُ ا وَ لَيُقَصِّرَنَّ و سَبِقاُونَ كَانُوا سَبَقُوا وَ اللَّهِ مَا كَتَمْتُ وَشْمَةً وَ لَا كَذَبْتُ كَذِبَةً وَ لَقَدْ نُبِّئْتُ بِهَذَا الْمَقَامِ وَ هَذَا الْيَوْمِ أَلَا وَ إِنَّ الْخَطَايَا خَيْلٌ شُمُسٌ حُمِلَ عَلَيْهَا أَهْلُهَا وَ خُلِعَتْ لُجُمُهَا فَتَقَحَّمَتْ بِهِمْ فِي النَّارِ أَلَا وَ إِنَّ التَّقْوَى مَطَايَا ذُلُلٌ حُمِلَ عَلَيْهَا أَهْلُهَا وَ أُعْطُوا أَزِمَّتَهَا فَأَوْرَدَتْهُمُ الْجَنَّةَ وَ فُتِحَتْ لَهُمْ أَبْوَابُهَا وَ وَجَدُوا رِيحَهَا وَ طِيبَهَا وَ قِيلَ لَهُمْ ادْخُلُوها بِسَلامٍ آمِنِينَ أَلَا وَ قَدْ سَبَقَنِي إِلَى هَذَا الْأَمْرِ مَنْ لَمْ أُشْرِكْهُ فِيهِ وَ مَنْ لَمْ أَهَبْهُ لَهُ وَ مَنْ لَيْسَتْ لَهُ مِنْهُ نَوْبَةٌ إِلَّا بِنَبِيٍّ يُبْعَثُ أَلَا وَ لَا نَبِيَّ بَعْدَ مُحَمَّدٍ ( صلى الله عليه وآله ) أَشْرَفَ مِنْهُ عَلَى شَفَا جُرُفٍ هَارٍ فَانْهَارَ بِهِ فِي نَارِ جَهَنَّمَ حَقٌّ وَ بَاطِلٌ وَ لِكُلٍّ أَهْلٌ فَلَئِنْ أَمِرَ الْبَاطِلُ لَقَدِيماً فَعَلَ وَ لَئِنْ قَلَّ الْحَقُّ فَلَرُبَّمَا وَ لَعَلَّ وَ لَقَلَّمَا أَدْبَرَ شَيْ‏ءٌ فَأَقْبَلَ وَ لَئِنْ رُدَّ عَلَيْكُمْ أَمْرُكُمْ أَنَّكُمْ سُعَدَاءُ وَ مَا عَلَيَّ إِلَّا الْجُهْدُ وَ إِنِّي لَأَخْشَى أَنْ تَكُونُوا عَلَى فَتْرَةٍ مِلْتُمْ عَنِّي مَيْلَةً كُنْتُمْ فِيهَا عِنْدِي غَيْرَ مَحْمُودِي الرَّأْيِ وَ لَوْ أَشَاءُ لَقُلْتُ عَفَا اللَّهُ عَمَّا سَلَفَ سَبَقَ فِيهِ الرَّجُلَانِ وَ قَامَ الثَّالِثُ كَالْغُرَابِ هَمُّهُ بَطْنُهُ وَيْلَهُ لَوْ قُصَّ جَنَاحَاهُ وَ قُطِعَ رَأْسُهُ كَانَ خَيْراً لَهُ شُغِلَ عَنِ الْجَنَّةِ وَ النَّارُ أَمَامَهُ ثَلَاثَةٌ وَ اثْنَانِ خَمْسَةٌ لَيْسَ لَهُمْ سَادِسٌ مَلَكٌ يَطِيرُ بِجَنَاحَيْهِ وَ نَبِيٌّ أَخَذَ اللَّهُ بِضَبْعَيْهِ وَ سَاعٍ مُجْتَهِدٌ وَ طَالِبٌ يَرْجُو وَ مُقَصِّرٌ فِي النَّارِ الْيَمِينُ وَ الشِّمَالُ مَضَلَّةٌ وَ الطَّرِيقُ الْوُسْطَى هِيَ الْجَادَّةُ عَلَيْهَا يَأْتِي الْكِتَابُ وَ آثَارُ النُّبُوَّةِ هَلَكَ مَنِ ادَّعَى وَ خَابَ مَنِ افْتَرَى إِنَّ اللَّهَ أَدَّبَ هَذِهِ الْأُمَّةَ بِالسَّيْفِ وَ السَّوْطِ وَ لَيْسَ لِأَحَدٍ عِنْدَ الْإِمَامِ فِيهِمَا هَوَادَةٌ فَاسْتَتِرُوا فِي بُيُوتِكُمْ وَ أَصْلِحُوا ذَاتَ بَيْنِكُمْ وَ التَّوْبَةُ مِنْ وَرَائِكُمْ مَنْ أَبْدَى صَفْحَتَهُ لِلْحَقِّ هَلَكَ .

23. Ali Bin Ibrahim, from his father, from Ibn Mahboub, from Ali Bin Ra’ab abd Yaqoub Al-Sarraaj who has said: Abu Abdullah (asws) has narrated that: ‘Amir-ul-Momineen (asws), when they had pledged allegiance to him (asws) after the killing of Usman, ascended the Pulpit, so he (asws) said: ‘Praise be to Allah (azwj) Who is High and thus all is in His (azwj) possession and He (azwj) is Closer than any in the view. And I (asws) hereby testify that there is no god but Allah (azwj), One with no associates to Him (azwj), and I (asws) testify that Muhammad (saww) is His (azwj) servant and His (azwj) Messenger (saww), the last of the Prophets (عليه السلام) and a Proof over the worlds, a ratification for the former Prophets (عليه السلام) and was kind and merciful to the Believers. The Angels sent ‘salam’ greetings of peace upon him (saww) and upon his (saww) Progeny (asws). Having said that, O you people! The transgression (indecency) places its owner into the Fire, and the first one to transgression (commit indecency) against Allah (azwj) Majestic is His (azwj) Remembrance was Onaq the daughter of Adam (عليه السلام), and the first one who was killed, whom Allah (azwj) Killed was Onaq. And the area that she occupied when seated upon the ground measured one square acre (Jarib) of the land, and she had twenty fingers and on each of her fingers were two nails like two sickles. So Allah (azwj) Mighty and Majestic Made her to be overcome by a lion which was like an elephant (in size), and a wolf which was like a camel (in size), and an eagle like a mule (in size). So they killed her. And Allah (azwj) had Killed the tyrants in their best conditions, and gave Safety to those who used to be (oppressed). And He (azwj) Made Hannaan to die, and destroyed the Pharaoh (la), and He (azwj) has Killed Usman. Indeed! Your misfortunes have returned to what they were on the day Allah (azwj) Sent His (azwj) Prophet (saww). By the One (azwj) Who Sent him (saww) by the truth, you will be confused with a (severe) confusion and be sifted with a (severe) sifting, and stirred and turned like the contents of a frying pan until your underside becomes your upper side and your upper side becomes your underside. The ones who used to be with the shortcomings will become the foremost ones, and those who used to be the foremost ones would become the people with shortcomings. By Allah (azwj)! I (asws) have neither concealed, nor blocked, nor lied a lie, and I (asws) have been foretold about this place and this day. Indeed! And the sins are like uncontrollable horses which carry its riders, with its harnesses removed, plunging into the Fire. Indeed! And the piety is like a humble ride which takes its rider, along with its rein, to the Paradise, and its Doors will be opened up for them, and they will find its aroma and goodness. And it will be said to them: ‘Enter it in peace and security’. Indeed! The ones who had no association with it has preceded me (asws) to this command (Caliphate), and the ones to whom it had not been Granted to, and the ones for whom there was no chance from it except if they were to be Prophets (عليه السلام) who had been Sent. And indeed! There is no Prophet (عليه السلام) to be after Muhammad (saww) who is more noble than him (عليه السلام) over the intercession on the brink of the Fire. So they will fall with by it (their lies) in the Fire of Hell. Truth as well as falsehood, for each of them are its people. The matter of falsehood is a very old one and has been active. And if the truth is less (in practice) it is because of ‘if’ and ‘maybe’. And it is rare that if a thing gone away comes back, and if your command (Caliphate) returns to you, you would be pleased, and it is not on me (asws) except for the striving, and I (asws) am afraid that you all will end up being on the nature of your nation (away) from me (asws), the nation that you were in beforehand and would not have a praiseworthy opinion in my (asws) sight, and if I (asws) so desire to I (asws) would say: ‘May Allah (azwj) Forgive what was in the past’. Two men preceded me (asws) with regards to it (Caliphate), and the third one stood up like the Raven. His main concern was his stomach. Woe be unto him! Had his wings been clipped and his head cut-off, it would have been better for him. He was distracted from the Paradise and the Hell was in front of him. Three and two make five, there is no sixth of them – An Angel who files by his wings, and a Prophet (عليه السلام) whom Allah (azwj) has Grabbed by his (عليه السلام) shoulders (Given him Divine Status), and a diligent seeker (momin), and a hopeful student, and a reducer (Muqassir) are in the Fire. The right and the left are misleading, whereas the middle path is the street on which you will come across the Book and the effects of the Prophet-hood. Destroyed is the one who makes a claim, and disillusioned is the one who fabricates that Allah (azwj) Disciplined this community by the sword and the whip, and there is no leniency for either of them with the Imam (asws). So, hide in your homes and mend your relationships in between yourselves and the repentance is behind you all. The one who turned his cheek (opposed the Imam (asws)) to the truth is destroyed.

Al-Kāfi - Volume 8, A Sermon of ‘Amir al Mu’minin on The Day of Rahba, ‘Alayhi al-Salam, Hadith #1

https://thaqalayn.net/hadith/8/1/23/1

Grading:

Allamah Baqir al-Majlisi: حسن - Mir‘at al ‘Uqul Fi Sharh Akhbar Al al Rasul (5 / 151)

Edited by Hameedeh
The member requested to make an edit.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
2 hours ago, Abu_Zahra said:

Those people who have been told that cursing the caliphs is a part of the religion need to go back and study the texts.

https://thaqalayn.net/hadith/12/1/5/1

"All of the following are obligatory:

The belief in the disavowal of those who oppressed (and still oppress) the Members of the Holy Household of Muhammad ((عليه السلام).) - especially those who tried to force them out (of their homes), began oppressing them; and changed the traditions established by their Prophet (S).

It is obligatory to disavow those who breach their covenants (nakitheen), the hypocrites, and the Kharijites who dishonoured the veil of the Household of God’s Prophet (S) by breaking their covenants with their Leader, having that lady (Aa’isha) ride a camel, (and taking her to Basra); started to fight with the Commander of the Faithful ((عليه السلام).); killed the pious Shiites whom God may forgive.

It is also obligatory to disavow those who denounced the good companions and deported them, honored those who had abandoned God’s Prophet (S), distributed government funds among the rich and put the fools in charge of the Muslims’ affairs such as Mo’awiya and Amr ibn al-‘Aass - who were both damned by God’s Prophet (S).

It is also obligatory to disavow those of their friends who fought with the Commander of the Faithful ((عليه السلام).), killed the Helpers (Ansar), the Immigrants (Muhajireen), the noble ones and the good doers from the past.

It is also obligatory to disavow those who believe in the setting up of the council, and disavow Abu Musa al-Ash’ari, and those of his friends - ‘those whose efforts have been wasted in this life, while they thought that they were acquiring good by their works. They are those who deny the Signs of their Lord…’ They disbelieved in the authority of the Commander of the Faithful ((عليه السلام).) and in this state they will meet their Lord! They disbelieved and they will meet God while not believing in his Divine Leadership. Thus they have ruined their deeds. Then we will not set up any Scale of Deeds for them on the Resurrection Day for their deeds to be weighed! They will be the dogs which reside in the Fire.

It is also obligatory to disavow the first and the last one of those built-up idols who were the leaders into corruption and loss, the forerunners of oppression. It is also obligatory to disavow those who ham-strung the she-camel of Salih - they were the oppressors of the first and the last, and of anyone who is friends with them.

And the friendship with the Commander of the Faithful ((عليه السلام).) and with those who followed the way of their Prophet (S), and who did not change their way such as Salman al-Farsi , Abu Tharr al-Ghifari, al-Miqdad ibn al-Aswad, Ammar bin Yasir, Hothayfa al-Yamani, Abil Haytham ibn al-Tayyihan, Sahl ibn Honayf, Ubada ibn As-Samit, Abi Ayyoub Al-Ansari, Khozayma ibn Thabit Thull-Shahadatayn, Abi Sa’eed al-Khodri and the like - may God be pleased with and have Mercy upon them - is obligatory.

And the friendship with their followers who have been guided along their path - may God be pleased with them - is obligatory."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)

One more:

مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ أَحْمَدَ الْقُمِّيُّ عَنْ عَمِّهِ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ الصَّلْتِ عَنْ يُونُسَ بْنِ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ سِنَانٍ عَنْ حُسَيْنٍ الْجَمَّالِ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ (عليه السلام) فِي قَوْلِ اللَّهِ تَبَارَكَ وَ تَعَالَى رَبَّنا أَرِنَا الَّذَيْنِ أَضَلَّانا مِنَ الْجِنِّ وَ الْإِنْسِ نَجْعَلْهُما تَحْتَ أَقْدامِنا لِيَكُونا مِنَ الْأَسْفَلِينَ قَالَ هُمَا ثُمَّ قَالَ وَ كَانَ فُلَانٌ شَيْطَاناً.

523. Muhammad Bin Ahmad Al-Qummy, from his uncle Abdullah Bin Al-Salt, from Yunus Bin Abdul Rahman, from Abdullah Bin Sinan, from Husayn Al-Jamal, who has reported the following: Abu Abdullah (asws) regarding the Statement of Allah (azwj) Blessed and High: “[41:29] Our Lord! show us those who led us astray from among the jinn and the men that we may trample them under our feet so that they may be of the lowest”, he (asws) said: ‘Those two’. Then said: ‘And that one was a Satan’.

Al-Kāfi - Volume 8, Place them under our feet..., Hadith #1

https://thaqalayn.net/hadith/8/1/523/1

Grading:

Allamah Baqir al-Majlisi: حسن كالصحيح وقد يعد صحيحا - Mir‘at al ‘Uqul Fi Sharh Akhbar Al al Rasul (6 / 487)

Shaykh Baqir al-Behbudi: صحيح - Sahih al-Kafi

Edited by Sabrejet
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
7 hours ago, Abu_Zahra said:

@Sabrejetyou have shared nothing new brother.  As I said, there is no authentic narration where the Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) are cursing the khulafa. Nothing you posted counters this fact. 

That is up to the readers to decide. You put forth a claim, and I submitted narrations with their matn, sanad, and grading. Whether you choose to believe them or not is up to you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Site Administrators
12 hours ago, hawdini said:

You attract people by standing firm in your beliefs and not watering them down to appease people. Im sure us doing la'na is not the tipping point to these people to become shia or not and if it is i couldnt care less, why would i wanna appease brainless people

Standing firm in your beliefs doesn't mean throw your god given brain out the window. Cursing is not wajib, at least not at all times and at all situations. Standing firm in your beliefs while looking foolish attracts noone. Don't be too confident that you have much more "brains" than them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Sabrejet said:

That is up to the readers to decide. You put forth a claim, and I submitted narrations with their matn, sanad, and grading. Whether you choose to believe them or not is up to you.

The narrations didn't counter the claim though. Where exactly do you see the khulafa being cursed?

Edited by Abu_Zahra
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
47 minutes ago, root said:

Standing firm in your beliefs while looking foolish attracts noone.

its not looking foolish?? Its odd to me a shia would consider that as looking foolish. Obviously if my sunni friend is sitting next to me im not suddenly going to start throwing la'na left and right but if she asked me id tell her yes i do that and explain it to her. Also were on a shia forum why am i not allowed to do la'na here??

56 minutes ago, root said:

Don't be too confident that you have much more "brains" than them.

im very big brained tho?? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Site Administrators
1 hour ago, hawdini said:

its not looking foolish?? Its odd to me a shia would consider that as looking foolish. Obviously if my sunni friend is sitting next to me im not suddenly going to start throwing la'na left and right but if she asked me id tell her yes i do that and explain it to her. Also were on a shia forum why am i not allowed to do la'na here??

im very big brained tho?? 

It is looking foolish, specially when there is 9000 things that takes priority over it in this day and age. I'm sure your brain is very big, but having a Ferrari in the garage is a waste, learn to drive it!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

This unhealthy obsession of absolutely wanting to curse the caliphs is neither logical nor does it have any religious basis. For those who are absolutely insisting on persisting with this innovation, ask yourselves why the aimmah (عليه السلام) didn't behave in this manner and why you then still insist on holding onto something that was introduced by the ghulaat and promoted by the Safavids for their own interests. 

As @root pointed out, it's telling that the same ignorant factions who persist with this foolish behaviour were absolutely nowhere to be seen when the resting places of the ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) were being targeted by Das and their likes. For all their bravado, when it comes to actions they simply vanish whereas the ones they abuse and curse lay down their lives and their children's lives in the way of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

If it still isn't obvious after this as to which path is the one of the aimmah (عليه السلام) then one is perhaps too blind to ever recognize it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
1 hour ago, hawdini said:

its not looking foolish?? Its odd to me a shia would consider that as looking foolish. Obviously if my sunni friend is sitting next to me im not suddenly going to start throwing la'na left and right but if she asked me id tell her yes i do that and explain it to her. Also were on a shia forum why am i not allowed to do la'na here??

im very big brained tho?? 

You can do it privately all you want. Doing it publically is another issue. We are a public website. I think you should ask yourself why you are so eager to do it publically when you know it would be destructive to the general cause of Islam as taught by Ahl Al Bayt((عليه السلام)) and when it is not necessary because Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) knows what you do privately and what you do publically. Are you trying to do it to please Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) or for some other (dunya related) reason ? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

Imam Ridha (as):

O Ibn Abi Mahmood! Our enemies have faked three types of traditions regarding our nobilities which are of the following types: 1- boasting 2- belittling and 3- the wickedness of our enemies and swearing at them. When the people hear their traditions boastings about us, they will denounce us and say that the Shiites believe in the divinity of their Divine Leaders. When they hear their traditions belittling us, they will believe them. They will swear at us - the Members of the Holy Household - when they hear the traditions about the wickedness of our enemies and their being sweared at, while the Honorable the Exalted God has said, ‘Revile not ye those whom they callupon besides God, lest they out of spite revile God in their ignorance….’”O Ibn Abi Mahmood! Follow our way when the people deviate to the right or left. We will be with whoever follows us. We will separate from whoever separates himself from us. The least thing that might lead one to abandon faith is to say that a pebble is an atom, believe it and stay away from those who oppose him. O Ibn Abi Mahmood! Safeguard what I have told you since I have given you what is best for you in this world and the Hereafter.”

Uyun Akhbar ar-Ridha

Vol 1, Ch 28

https://thaqalayn.net/hadith/11/2/28/58

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
22 hours ago, root said:

You would be kicked out of Hawzah on day one.....

hahahah well they wouldnt even allow you in!!! how about that

 

21 hours ago, Abu_Zahra said:

This unhealthy obsession of absolutely wanting to curse the caliphs is neither logical nor does it have any religious basis. For those who are absolutely insisting on persisting with this innovation, ask yourselves why the aimmah (عليه السلام) didn't behave in this manner and why you then still insist on holding onto something that was introduced by the ghulaat and promoted by the Safavids for their own interests. 

 Shaykh Sadooq writes in Khisaal that the Messenger of Allah (S) told Ali (عليه السلام), “O Ali! Bani Umayyah will curse you and for each of their curse an angel will curse them a thousand times. After his reappearance Qaim (aj). will curse them for forty years.”1

Imam Muhammad Baqir (عليه السلام) that he said: When you conclude the obligatory prayer, do not move till you have cursed Bani Umayyah.2 Well thats one sahaba

2 to go

22 hours ago, Abu_Zahra said:

senior fuqaha of our time have confirmed it's prohibition. 

where is your proof

 

22 hours ago, Abu_Zahra said:

pointed out, it's telling that the same ignorant factions who persist with this foolish behaviour were absolutely nowhere to be seen when the resting places of the ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) were being targeted by Das and their likes. For all their bravado, when it comes to actions they simply vanish whereas the ones they abuse and curse lay down their lives and their children's lives in the way of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

Again where is your proof, sounds like random field research

 

22 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

Are you trying to do it to please Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) or for some other (dunya related) reason ? 

Well this is a shia website, it shouldnt surprise sunnis that we dont like the sahabas and want them to burn in hell

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
9 hours ago, hawdini said:

where is your proof

The statements of Sayyid al Sistani and Sayyid Khamenei have already been posted in this thread.

9 hours ago, hawdini said:

Again where is your proof, sounds like random field research

Proof that Hizbullah and the IRGC fought Daesh, while Allahyari and Yassir al Habib hid in the West? Choose any media outlet of your choice, nobody has even attempted to deny this. It's a simple fact. 

9 hours ago, hawdini said:

Well this is a shia website, it shouldnt surprise sunnis that we dont like the sahabas and want them to burn in hell

You can speak for yourself. 

The Shia position on the companions is discussed here

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235083875-we-shias-love-12000-sahaba-ridhwanullah-alayhim/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Abu_Zahra said:

The statements of Sayyid al Sistani and Sayyid Khamenei have already been posted in this thread.

Proof that Hizbullah and the IRGC fought Daesh, while Allahyari and Yassir al Habib hid in the West? Choose any media outlet of your choice, nobody has even attempted to deny this. It's a simple fact. 

You can speak for yourself. 

The Shia position on the companions is discussed here

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235083875-we-shias-love-12000-sahaba-ridhwanullah-alayhim/

Allahyari doesnt have an militia/army. While hizbollah and the iranians do. So what is youe point here? Should an theologian be an military leader? Or should and military leader be an military leader and fight.

 

Because hezbollah fought IS doesnt mean they are good. *** i mean they can commit warcrimes and or be wrong theological 

 

With that logic. The US is better then allahyari cause they also fought IS. US is good because they fought saddam hussein. Do not mix armies/politics with religion

 

Edit: ***

Edited by foxmccloud
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

By the Grand Ayatullah Sayyid ‘Ali Khamena’i

When a person speaking in the name of Shi‘as on his private internet television channel (based in London, UK) used abusive and insulting remarks about one of the wives of Prophet of Islam ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).), a group of Shi‘a scholars from Ahsã’, Saudi Arabia, sent a question to the Grand Ayatullah Khamena’i and asked for his verdict.

In his reply, Ayatullah Khamena’i said:
“Insulting the personalities of Sunni brethren, including the wives of all the Prophets, in particular those of the Leader of the Prophets and accusing the wife of the Prophet of Islam, is forbidden (haram).”

 

By the Grand Ayatullah Sayyid ‘Ali Sistani

Question:
As-Salaamun ‘alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh.

A video clip is circulating on social media of a mourning procession on the anniversary of the martyrdom of Imam al-Jawad ((عليه السلام).), and a group of people in the area of al-A‘dhamiyya are seen shouting abuses on ‘Umar and ‘Aisha and others.

Is such an act condemned by the highest religious leadership (marji‘iyyat)? Especially since it relates to abusing the religious symbols of our Sunni brethren and this, in turn, will further enflame the fire of blind civil strife among the Iraqi people.

Was-salaam.

Answer:

In the name of Allah, the Kind, the Merciful

This behavior is condemned and strongly objectionable, and is against what the Imams of Ahlul Bayt ((عليه السلام).) has ordered their followers (Shi‘as). Allah is the Guide.

 

By the Grand Ayatullah N. Makarim Shirazi

“…Recently a pseudo scholar, an ignorant person…has shockingly abused the wives of the Noble Prophet, and has insulted some holy entities of other sects and has accused wives of the Prophet of inappropriate things.

“Either this person is in pay [of the enemies] or is foolish and a lunatic; and more ignorant than him are those Wahhabi scholars who use such statements as a basis [for their hatred against us]. This is in spite of the fact that hundreds of Shi‘a scholars have condemned this act but they [the Wahhabis] have accepted the words of this servant [of the enemies]. This shows the illogical attitude of the Wahhabis….

“Our condemnation was publicized in the global Velayat Channel, and we have condemned every kind of insult of the wives of the Prophet. These [Wahhabis] have forgotten that the late Imam [Khumayni] declared Salman Rushdie as an apostate because of the Satanic Verses in which inappropriate things had been attributed to the Prophet’s wives.

“We should be careful to make our statements on the basis of proofs and logic, but at the same time, we should not do something that will cause conflict.”

 

By the Grand Ayatullah H. Wahid Khurasani

Once in his lecture, Ayatullah Husayn Wahid Khurasani, the head of Hawza-e ‘Ilmiyyah of Qum, read a narration from tafsir of Imam Fakhru ’d-Dīn Rãzi in which the name of ‘Umar, the second caliph, had come.

The narration had the words, “raziyallahu ‘anhu,” and Ayatullah Wahid Khurasani recited it the way it had occurred in the book.

Some from the audience uttered words of insult regarding the caliph. Ayatullah Wahid responded by saying:

“Have I not said that in my lecture do not use such words?!

 

 

https://www.al-islam.org/mutual-respect-peaceful-co-existence-among-muslim/2-abusing-insulting-leaders-sunni-madhhab

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
1 hour ago, foxmccloud said:

Allahyari doesnt have an militia/army. While hizbollah and the iranians do. So what is youe point here? Should an theologian be an military leader? Or should and military leader be an military leader and fight.

Salam , Lol you are comparing apples with oranges just due to your biased mindset ; which you are talking nonsense just due to your biased mindset which in opposition to your nonsense whether if a shia theologian will be a military leader or not so then He won't utter hateful nonsense likewise so called Allahyari .

 

1 hour ago, foxmccloud said:

Because hezbollah fought IS doesnt mean they are good. *** i mean they can commit warcrimes and or be wrong theological 

This is a baseless accusation :blabla: which many times uttered by radical anti Shias likewise Wahabis while until now it has been refuted countless times .

1 hour ago, foxmccloud said:

With that logic. The US is better then allahyari cause they also fought IS. US is good because they fought saddam hussein. Do not mix armies/politics with religion

You are mixing anything just to utter your most illogical mindset ; which everyone with normal IQ can distinguish right from wrong  so then nobody has assumed US good except you  just because your hatred toward Hizbillah & Iran which at the end based on Imam Khomein "our religion is our politics & our politis is our religion." which until now only American backed Allahyari & infamous Shirazi grouplet have  opposed it .   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
2 hours ago, foxmccloud said:

Allahyari doesnt have an militia/army. While hizbollah and the iranians do. So what is youe point here? Should an theologian be an military leader? Or should and military leader be an military leader and fight.

 

Because hezbollah fought IS doesnt mean they are good. *** i mean they can commit warcrimes and or be wrong theological 

 

With that logic. The US is better then allahyari cause they also fought IS. US is good because they fought saddam hussein. Do not mix armies/politics with religion

 

Edit: ***

Ok akhi, you follow whatever you believe is correct. Feel free to make Allahyari your guide. Continue going around insulting the khulafa. Don't come crying to us if you have problems, we already told you this has nothing to do with tashayyu' but you don't want to listen. 

As salamu alaikum 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
On 6/21/2024 at 12:51 AM, Abu_Zahra said:

The narrations didn't counter the claim though. Where exactly do you see the khulafa being cursed?

Anyone not wearing Kamanpoori tinted glasses can clearly see it. If you can't/ don't want to see it, then I can't help you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
1 hour ago, Sabrejet said:

Anyone not wearing Kamanpoori tinted glasses can clearly see it. If you can't/ don't want to see it, then I can't help you.

Well either its there or it isn't. The claim was quite clear, we don't have narrations (authentic) where the Aimmah are cursing the khulafa. Therefore there shouldn't be anything to see or not see, the evidence should be equally clear. If you don't have it then we're back to square one. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
10 hours ago, Abu_Zahra said:

Well either its there or it isn't. The claim was quite clear, we don't have narrations (authentic) where the Aimmah are cursing the khulafa. Therefore there shouldn't be anything to see or not see, the evidence should be equally clear. If you don't have it then we're back to square one. 

It's there plain as day. Who are "those two" in those narrations who will end up in hell? Who is the "third one" who's head should have been cut off and who preferred Hell instead of Paradise?

If you are still adamant enough not to see the truth in plain sight, let me link a thread 14 years old:

Defaming The Wife Of The Prophet(s) Is Forbidden

Read the posts by brother Nader. Who are the fulan and fulan that the Imam ((عليه السلام)) mentioned by name in the saheeh hadith? Hint: it's not Yasser al Habib and Hasan Allahyari.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

 

This is a baseless accusation :blabla: which many times uttered by radical anti Shias likewise Wahabis while until now it has been refuted countless times .

 

i have NEVER said that they COMMITED warcrimes, i said they CAN commit warcrimes. thus possibly making them not an good organisation if they do. and please, do not put me in the group of wahabbis or anti-shias, i am an shia

i have no hate against Nasrallah, he fought ISIS and destroyed the american coup. i do not mind the iranians, i do not hate qassim soleimani. he also fought ISIS and showed them what it is to mess with shia's.

i do not understand how i am biased by saying that theology has nothing to do with an army!

if khomeini decided to stay an theologian and not rule an country, that is fine right?

but if he wants to start an army and fight isis, thats also fine?

so why are akhbaris cowards when they practically can't build an army solely based on akhbari's and not including usooli's? (forgive me if these words are banned)

nobody should say, you are 10% of all shia's so why didn't you make an army? besides the fact that they do not have an country nor the need to seccede from iraq/iran.

 

people just follow an different thought. you do not need to be an shia to fight ISIS.

you just need to be not an american or wahabbi

Edited by foxmccloud
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...