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Moses patience and the trials of Khidr

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On 5/20/2024 at 11:29 AM, realizm said:

Well, I often wonder at what time of Moses' life (عليه السلام) he had met with Khidr (عليه السلام). Despite everything we know about Moses from his infancy to his prophethood, it is hard to figure out when his encounter with Khidr (عليه السلام) took place. 

Option 1 If we consider this mystical journey happened before his Nubuwa/Meb`ath, (remember he is accompanied by a servant, maybe from the time he still was living at the Pharaoh's court?), then we may consider these things were premonitory and helped him understand and achieve his mission.

Option 2 : If we consider it happened after his Nubuwa, which took place after leaving Madian, then it means Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) tested him on things he already had experienced. 

I think option 1 makes more sense but Allahu a`lam !

Salam alaikom.

What an observation akhi... it's crazy how the Quran has so many aspects that can juts fly over our heads.

I believe that option two is right... just because I remember reading somewhere that the story occurred after Sayyedna Musa (عليه السلام) said he was the most knowledgeable creation of Allah and Allah wanted to show him the truth. Or it was revealed to Sayyedna Musa (عليه السلام) that there was a man more knowledgeable than him and he (عليه السلام) wanted to meet him.

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It was revealed to Hazrat Moses that there is a man who has vast knowledge than him, Moses prayed to Allah about his willing to meet the person (Hazrat Khidr), then he was ordered to make a journey, take a cooked fish and you will meet him (Hazrat Khidr) at the place where this fish will missing. Moses started his journey to search for Hazrat Khidr and on how he met him and what are the reasons behind the three acts done by Khidr.

https://www.sibtayn.com/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=7402&catid=851&Itemid=603

Allah testing Musa (عليه السلام) on things he already experienced may be the underlying purpose behind all of this. While Sayyedna Musa (عليه السلام) had the knowledge of the zahir (apparent reality), Sayyedna Khidr (عليه السلام) had the knowledge of the batin (hidden reality). Therefore, it may be that Allah wanted to show Musa (عليه السلام) how knowledge of the zahir lacks value without the hidden meaning.

This is an opinion, but I think it's an interesting interpretation. 

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Posted (edited)

Out of topic, Is it true that khidr (عليه السلام) is alive and will reappear with imam mahdi (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف)?

Edited by Diaz
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10 minutes ago, Diaz said:

Out of topic, Is it true that khidr (عليه السلام) is alive and will reappear with imam mahdi (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف)?

Salam , Yeah , It's true because he has drunk from fountain of life in darkness of earth after he has entered besides Dhul-Qarnayn into it . 

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3 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam , Yeah , It's true because he has drunk from fountain of life in darkness of earth after he has entered besides Dhul-Qarnayn into it . 

I know he is alive but never heard about the drunk from fountain. Tell me more about it brother. And that means dhul qarnayn is alive?

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8 hours ago, علوي said:

Allah testing Musa (عليه السلام) on things he already experienced may be the underlying purpose behind all of this.

:salam:

That's plausible. That is also what the links above seem to indicate.

But the interesting part is he the events he is exposed to are not exactly the same he had lived. They are just linked thematically, like hints.

8 hours ago, علوي said:

What an observation akhi... it's crazy how the Quran has so many aspects that can juts fly over our heads.

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) help us acquire knowledge.

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8 hours ago, علوي said:

Allah testing Musa (عليه السلام) on things he already experienced may be the underlying purpose behind all of this.

:salam:

That's plausible. That is also what the links above seem to indicate.

But the interesting part is he the events he is exposed to are not exactly the same he had lived. They are just linked thematically, like hints.

8 hours ago, علوي said:

What an observation akhi... it's crazy how the Quran has so many aspects that can juts fly over our heads.

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) help us acquire knowledge.

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8 hours ago, علوي said:

Allah testing Musa (عليه السلام) on things he already experienced may be the underlying purpose behind all of this.

:salam:

That's plausible. That is also what the links above seem to indicate.

But the interesting part is he the events he is exposed to are not exactly the same he had lived. They are just linked thematically, like hints.

8 hours ago, علوي said:

What an observation akhi... it's crazy how the Quran has so many aspects that can juts fly over our heads.

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) help us acquire knowledge.

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53 minutes ago, Diaz said:

I know he is alive but never heard about the drunk from fountain. Tell me more about it brother. And that means dhul qarnayn is alive?

I used to be very interested in this in the past and had grand ambitions of finding the fountain myself:hahaha:

The special water is located in a place called The Land of Darkness, somewhere near Russia I think. The fog of that place is so intense you couldn't see your own hand in front of you.

Land of Darkness - Wikipedia

If my memory is correct a king (Dhul Qarnayn) wanted this water so he got his men and set out to find it. Prophet Khidr discovered it when he accidentally dropped a dried fish into it and it came back to life (hence his association with fish). But when Prophet Khidr tried to lead others to the water he couldn't manage to find it again.

When I was younger I was like "Man I have got to get my hands on that water!" So I had plans of going there and finding it. But it didn't occur to me that if a grand man like Dhul Qarnayn with an entire army to help him couldn't manage to find it, then what could I do on my own? And if Prophet Khidr couldn't find it again after having literally just been there then why would I think Allah will reveal it to me? But more than that why would I want to be immortal anyway? If I'm good then I can have eternal life in Heaven. I guess I didn't appreciate the concept of Heaven. 

Sorry to make you read my insane ramblings, fact-check everything I said 

 

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13 hours ago, guest 2025 said:

If my memory is correct a king (Dhul Qarnayn) wanted this water so he got his men and set out to find it. Prophet Khidr discovered it when he accidentally dropped a dried fish into it and it came back to life (hence his association with fish). But when Prophet Khidr tried to lead others to the water he couldn't manage to find it again.

Salam respectfully it's story about finding prophet Khidr (عليه السلام) by prophet Musa(عليه السلام) & his companions ) (Yusha' (a) ) which according to exegetical sources dried fish came back to life in entrance of Suez Canal but on the other hand prophet Khidr (عليه السلام) has found fountain of life in land of darkness which doesn't has a fixed location which only people likewise  Dhul Qarnayn & prophet khidr (عليه السلام) & infaillible Imams who have access to divine knowledge can locate it's place , which prophet khidr has found water of life   by other means when he  has been in company with Dhul Qarnayn in land of darknes by will of Allah while Dhul Qarnayn has not found it due to will of Allah .

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Company of Moses (a) in Meeting with Khidr (a)

According to historical and exegetical sources, Yusha' (a) was the young man who accompanied Moses (a) in his meeting with Khidr (a).[22] In the Qur'an, companionship of a young man with Moses (a) in his meetings with Khidr (a) is mentioned.[23]

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Yusha'_(a)

https://fa.wikifeqh.ir/حضرت_یوشع_بن_نون

https://fa.wikifeqh.ir/داستان_موسی_و_خضر

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13 hours ago, realizm said:

:salam:

Again and with all due respect brother, be careful with those translation websites you use which sometimes lead to very unlikely stuff as in the example right here. 

 

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1- Musa's speech and Abandoning the Better (Tark al-Awla)
[edit]
When the pharaoh and  pharaoh's people  drowned in the Nile Sea and perished, the Israelites under the leadership of Hazrat Musa (peace be upon him) won after years of struggle, and the reins of leadership fell into the hands of Moses (peace be upon him).
He gave a speech in front of the Bani Israel in a very large gathering (which can be called a victory celebration), the assembly was very magnificent, suddenly someone asked Musa (peace be upon him): "Do you know anyone who knows more than you?" more knowledgeable than you)? Musa (peace be upon him) replied: No. And according to some narrations, after the revelation of the Torah and Allah speaking directly to Moses (peace be upon him), Moses said to himself in his mind: "Allah has not created anyone more knowledgeable than me." At this time, Allah revealed to Gabriel, find Moses, who has fallen in the valley of destruction. (That is, as a result of a state similar to selfishness, he is on the downward slope from the highest spiritual statuses, he hastened to help him to be corrected. Gabriel came to Moses...)

Allah immediately revealed to Musa (peace be upon him): Yes, our servant Khidr (peace be upon him) is more knowledgeable than you, he is now in the strait of the two seas, "according to most commentators, this strait of the two seas means the junction of the Gulf of Aqaba with It is the Gulf of Suez. It is next to a huge stone. Musa (peace be upon him) said: "How can I reach his presence?" Allah said: "Take a fish and put it in your basket, and go to that strait of the two seas, wherever you lose that fish, that knowledgeable man is there." [1]

Footnote:


۱.  علامه مجلسی، بحارالانوار، ج۱۳، ص۲۷۸

Bihar Al-Anwar , v 13 , p 278

https://fa.wikifeqh.ir/داستان_موسی_و_خضر

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On 5/27/2024 at 12:00 AM, Diaz said:

I know he is alive but never heard about the drunk from fountain. Tell me more about it brother. And that means dhul qarnayn is alive?

Read these ahadith / tafsir brother :

 

Also @Eddie Mecca I’d be interested if you had any thoughts bro

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Posted (edited)
On 5/28/2024 at 8:59 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

 

Allah immediately revealed to Musa (peace be upon him): Yes, our servant Khidr (peace be upon him) is more knowledgeable than you, he is now in the strait of the two seas, "according to most commentators, this strait of the two seas means the junction of the Gulf of Aqaba with It is the Gulf of Suez. It is next to a huge stone. Musa (peace be upon him) said: "How can I reach his presence?" Allah said: "Take a fish and put it in your basket, and go to that strait of the two seas, wherever you lose that fish, that knowledgeable man is there." [1]

Footnote:


۱.  علامه مجلسی، بحارالانوار، ج۱۳، ص۲۷۸

Bihar Al-Anwar , v 13 , p 278

https://fa.wikifeqh.ir/داستان_موسی_و_خضر

 

Suez Canal is a man-made river connecting the Red Sea with the Mediterranean which was created by I think the French and the British in the late 1800s for navigation purposes... but I guess you got my point.

Edited by realizm
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Posted (edited)
On 5/19/2024 at 9:29 PM, realizm said:

Well, I often wonder at what time of Moses' life (عليه السلام) he had met with Khidr (عليه السلام). Despite everything we know about Moses from his infancy to his prophethood, it is hard to figure out when his encounter with Khidr (عليه السلام) took place. 

Perhaps during the forty years wandering in the wilderness era w/ the Children of Israel...he (a) would have had plenty of time to wander/roam around during this time-period I suppose...ahadith mentioned Musa (a) was accompanied by Joshua (r)... I suppose this meant Harun (a) was governing things back home while Musa (a) was away

Edited by Eddie Mecca
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13 hours ago, realizm said:

Suez Canal is a man-made river connecting the Red Sea with the Mediterranean which was created by I think the French and the British in the late 1800s for navigation purposes... but I guess you got my point.

Salam this is a political sarcasm about modernization of it ; which "The French Built The Suez Canal And Then The British Stole It"

https://grantpiperwriting.medium.com/the-french-built-the-suez-canal-and-then-the-british-stole-it-a861dabebf99

 but according to historical records , making it has been initiated by some Pharaohs likewise Ramesses II & Necho II which it has been "fully functional canal was engineered and completed by Darius I 

Quote

Precursors[edit]

  Ancient west–east canals were built to facilitate travel from the Nile to the Red Sea.[11][12][13] One smaller canal is believed to have been constructed under the auspices of Senusret II[14] or Ramesses II.[11][12][13] Another canal, probably incorporating a portion of the first,[11][12] was constructed under the reign of Necho II (610–595 BCE), but the only fully functional canal was engineered and completed by Darius I (522–486 BCE).[11][12][13]

220px-Canal_of_the_Pharaohs_Map-en.svg.png

Canal of the Pharaohs, that followed Wadi Tumilat

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Canal

 

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2 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

Perhaps during the forty years wandering in the wilderness era w/ the Children of Israel...he (a) would have had plenty of time to wander/roam around during this time-period I suppose...ahadith mentioned Musa (a) was accompanied by Joshua (r)... I suppose this meant Harun (a) was governing things back home while Musa (a) was away

:salam:

Hmmm I thought they were litterally wandering in the desert, while this story of Khidhr (عليه السلام) involves sea, rivers, villages.

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22 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam this is a political sarcasm about modernization of it ; which "The French Built The Suez Canal And Then The British Stole It"

https://grantpiperwriting.medium.com/the-french-built-the-suez-canal-and-then-the-british-stole-it-a861dabebf99

 but according to historical records , making it has been initiated by some Pharaohs likewise Ramesses II & Necho II which it has been "fully functional canal was engineered and completed by Darius I 

What you posted does not sound like the Suez Canal.

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I personally guess that the real name of the Prophet Khizr was something else.

Off-topic but it seems interesting to me that the name Moses resembles the name of somr Egyptisn princes/Pharaohs. For example: Amosis, Ramosis, Tuthmosis,...mosis means "son" or "been born of". Maybe, the name of the Prophet Moses (as an Egyptian prince) also had a prefix.

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20 hours ago, shadow_of_light said:

I personally guess that the real name of the Prophet Khizr was something else.

Off-topic but it seems interesting to me that the name Moses resembles the name of somr Egyptisn princes/Pharaohs. For example: Amosis, Ramosis, Tuthmosis,...mosis means "son" or "been born of". Maybe, the name of the Prophet Moses (as an Egyptian prince) also had a prefix.

:salam:

 

On 5/26/2024 at 5:05 PM, realizm said:

Authentic narrators mention that al-Khidhr was a Mursal Messenger. Allah had appointed him over a community and he was calling them towards Tawhid (Monotheism) and inviting them to Prophets and divine books. His miracle was such that whenever he sat on earth that piece of earth became green and grass grew on it. If he sat on a wooden plank or inclined over a dry piece of wood that wood would also become green and leaves would sprout from it as well as buds. That is why he was called al-Khidhr (green). His name was Taaliyaa and he was the son of Malkaan bin Ghaabar bin Arfahshad bin Sam ibn Nuh.

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