Has Iran attacked Israel?

[hawdini]

6 hours ago, root said:

What i don't understand is why people on this forum still bother to answer some of the obvious trolls and individuals who argue just for the sake of arguing? By now you have to realise that no matter how many times you beat a dead horse, it won't actually wake up. Not mentioning names, but the shia uncle toms and court jesters are well known on this forum. 

im bored

[kadhim]

48 minutes ago, hawdini said:

Since when is colonizing legal? Can you show me in a book of Law?

So do I take it you object on principle to the historical Arab Muslim conquests as well? 

48 minutes ago, hawdini said:

Is that perhaps your colonizer gene speaking. Do you perhaps have colonizer ancestors??

You folks sure get racist quick when you can’t respond to things with reason and facts. Is that your Arab colonizer genes acting up? /s
 

48 minutes ago, hawdini said:

Who cares about what dusty arabs think, what is your point exactly???

Abu Hadi claimed that the Arabs and Palestinians were trying to peacefully negotiate an independent Palestinian state “since 1948.” I was pointing out that this is not true, because I have this character flaw where I think facts matter. 

 

48 minutes ago, hawdini said:

Isnt it easy for you to judge their resistance sitting comfortably in you home with nobody bothering you.

Apparently not as easy as it is for some of you folks to cheer on these people getting wiped out in the name of “resistance” from the comfort of your homes. ;)

Edited April 16 by kadhim

[hawdini]

25 minutes ago, kadhim said:

So do I take it you object on principle to the historical Arab Muslim conquests as well? 

ofcourse

 

25 minutes ago, kadhim said:

You folks sure get racist quick when you can’t respond to things with reason and facts. Is that your Arab colonizer genes acting up?

lol look who is racist, i dont even know your race noob. You just showed your hate for arabs

26 minutes ago, kadhim said:

Apparently not as easy as it is for some of you folks to cheer on these people getting wiped out in the name of “resistance”

dumb as hell, blaming the victims for resisting

[kadhim]

14 minutes ago, hawdini said:

ofcourse

Points for consistency at least.

14 minutes ago, hawdini said:

lol look who is racist, i dont even know your race noob. You just showed your hate for arabs

Do you understand what /s means? 

14 minutes ago, hawdini said:

dumb as hell, blaming the victims for resisting

I don’t believe in volunteering other people for suicide. 

Edited April 16 by kadhim

[hawdini]

6 minutes ago, kadhim said:

Do you understand what /s means? 

no do i look like i spend all my time on the internet

youre actually annoying , i was about to beat your you know what

[Ahmad8888]

2 hours ago, hawdini said:

Since when is colonizing legal? Can you show me in a book of Law? Is that perhaps your colonizer gene speaking. Do you perhaps have colonizer ancestors??

They literally had foreign jewish people move there and take over you mean?

They just drew lines to make these countries, never had randos moving there

Who cares about what dusty arabs think, what is your point exactly???

Isnt it easy for you to judge their resistance sitting comfortably in you home with nobody bothering you.

Ill ask all the burglars to come for your house since youre so anti resistance

Hes known to make stupid contrarian talking points. 

I never thought I'd see the day he would resort to a brittish colonial argument which they used to justify their theft of native lands . 

 

He also confuses colonialism for imperialism, what a clown. Any educated person on this subject would mop the floor with this fool with this terrible "arab coloniser" nonsense argument he made, he should stick to programming instead of this garbage dog whistling. 

 

Edit: just to clarify something, imperialism has a bad history too and so do many arab conquests have not so great pasts, but to equate imperialism with colonialism is absurd and anyone educated on this who also educated me on this would want to throw a brick at the person making such a stupid comparison, colonialism has a far more brutal history behind it, but this smooth brain is confusing arab imperialism to european colonialism or israeli colonialism. 

Edited April 16 by Ahmad8888

[Ahmad8888]

 

[kadhim]

58 minutes ago, hawdini said:

no do i look like i spend all my time on the internet

youre actually annoying 

Ok.
Well, FYI (which stands for “for your information” btw (by the way)), /s = sarcasm. Not a serious literal argument.

Quote

i was about to beat your you know what

You’re kind of tense. You should try yoga. 

Edited April 16 by kadhim

[root]

4 hours ago, kadhim said:

Look dude. You folks can circle the wagons and conspire all you like to gaslight and stonewall and deflect. It will probably continue to work on those naïve college kids you have brainwashed. For a while anyway. 

But eventually they’re going to notice the inconsistencies, and that you can’t answer basic, reasonable questions about the conflict. And then they’re going to put two and two together and figure out you’ve been lying to them all along. 

Cheers. 

Look dude, you don't have to flap around like a fish out of water just because some of us can smell you 6 miles out. Better trollers and certainly more intelligent than you have come and gone here, we have seen them all. 

But eventually, and hopefully, you will learn that playing nice with words and hiding your insults and quite frankly uncle tom like mindset behind nicely formulated sentences will only get you that far. Sooner or later, people like you blow a fuse and reveal that your synapses aren't correctly wired up, so why don't you roll up your cheap booklet and try selling it to someone that isn't going to call you out on your rubbish? 

[kadhim]

59 minutes ago, Ahmad8888 said:

He also confuses colonialism for imperialism, what a clown. Any educated person on this subject would mop the floor with this fool with this terrible "arab coloniser" nonsense argument he made, he should stick to programming instead of this garbage dog whistling. 

 

If you think that there is an obvious, relevant, practical difference between the two with respect to the Arab conquests, such that the Arab conquests were one but obviously not the other, please illuminate us about what the practical difference is in your own words. And similarly, explain in your own words why the Arab conquests, particularly of the areas that later became predominantly Arab and Muslim, were not colonialism. 

Since this is so obvious, it should be easy for you, right?

Edited April 16 by kadhim

[Irfani313]

On 4/16/2024 at 6:28 PM, root said:

Look dude, you don't have to flap around like a fish out of water just because some of us can smell you 6 miles out. Better trollers and certainly more intelligent than you have come and gone here, we have seen them all. 

But eventually, and hopefully, you will learn that playing nice with words and hiding your insults and quite frankly uncle tom like mindset behind nicely formulated sentences will only get you that far. Sooner or later, people like you blow a fuse and reveal that your synapses aren't correctly wired up, so why don't you roll up your cheap booklet and try selling it to someone that isn't going to call you out on your rubbish? 

Ok I’ll take the credit for two things .. feeding my ego here - ehm ehm.. 

As far as I know, I used the term uncle tom for the shekels first here. I wonder why tom stuck and shekels wasn’t ???

In this fast changing world, I’m sure one day sheckles would find its rightful place in the grand board of SC. Lol.

Side note any xzy-stein can google a Tawzih and pretend to be the revert & expert here. Do we have a deterrence for this? 

[kadhim]

18 minutes ago, Irfani313 said:

Ok I’ll take the credit for two things .. feeding my ego here - ehm ehm.. 

As far as I know, I used the term uncle tom for the shekels first here. I wonder why tom stuck and shekels wasn’t ???

In this fast changing world, I’m sure one day sheckles would find its rightful place in the grand board of SC. Lol.

Side note any xzy-stein can google a Tawzih and pretend to be the revert & expert here. Do we have a deterrence for this? 
 

 

Yeah dude. You got me.

I pulled an elaborate, 20+ year “long con,” ten thousand odd posts, including literally years of pro-Palestinian posts from multiple previous conflicts, just so that, 20 years later, a decade or more past the heyday of the site, I could return and flip on the ~ 10 of you that are left, all to collect the whatever number of “shekels” that’s worth. 

That’s totally a rational act of reasoning on your part and definitely not the paranoid, bat guano musings of a schizoid off his meds. 

/s 

 

Edited April 17 by kadhim

[hawdini]

6 hours ago, kadhim said:

/s = sarcasm.

i know i googled it thats why i said youre annoying

 

7 hours ago, kadhim said:

I don’t believe in volunteering other people for suicide. 

so lets say i invade your house and youre thinking if i dont do anything they wont kill me and they still kill you, what would you call that

 

6 hours ago, kadhim said:

You’re kind of tense.

lol my blood was boiling

anyway stop playing devils advocate, i refuse to believe this is what you actually think

[123xo]

Lol y'all need to relax @kadhim could be anything. He could be a real revert with his own personalised political views, he could also be a troll with so much time but again i just realised that this man has been on here since '03 which is a looooooooooong time... logically speaking how can someone be bothered to troll for 21yrs?  So yes cross the troll assumptions out and accept that sadly some people do have their own biased political views. 

[kadhim]

On 4/17/2024 at 12:21 AM, hawdini said:

lol my blood was boiling

You know why that is? If you reflect, that’s you being frustrated with yourself because you just “know” I’m wrong but at the same time you realize you can’t really answer what I’m saying. And that’s giving you dissonance. That’s something you need to take ownership of within yourself. 
 

On 4/17/2024 at 12:21 AM, hawdini said:

so lets say i invade your house and youre thinking if i dont do anything they wont kill me and they still kill you, what would you call that

Maybe you should be getting beyond simplistic, biased analogies if you want to actually understand a really complex situation.

For example. It seems like in some specific cases, of some people, historically, yes, the stealing the house was probably a legit analogy. That did happen in some cases. That was wrong.

But in a lot of other cases, no, that’s not an honest analogy at all. In a lot of other cases, the person didn’t own their place. They were renters to Ottoman landlords in Turkey, and Jews went to those landlords, bought the land and took ownership. Which admittedly probably sucked if you were that renter, but that’s business. You can’t say someone stole something from you that you didn’t own in the first place.

And in some other cases, Palestinian Arabs left voluntarily because they decided to take a gamble that Arab armies would come and kill their Jewish neighbor and then they could come back and have their neighbor’s land. That happened too. But then the Jews won and they lost the bet and couldn’t come back. 

Going back to the first case, from your analogy, that is a legitimately awful thing. History is full of awful things like that. Those who were involuntarily forced out, that was a problem and they had a right to be upset about that. 

But … to respond to that by still sitting there 75 years later, getting the grandchildren and great-grandchildren killed over this old grievance is crazy. There’s no point to that any more. It’s just stubbornness. 

The truth is, despite the narrative the community has bought into, the Palestinian displacement situation in itself was not a unique or special one-off in recent history. After WW2 there were several mass displacement events with millions of refugees. There was the India and Pakistan partition. There was a refugee situation between Germany and Czechoslovakia. There was one between Greece and Turkey. There were Jews from liberated camps in Europe whose homes had been confiscated by the Nazis and had nowhere to go back to. There was a lot of suck going on. Tens of millions of refugees in the decade after WW2. 

But in none of these other cases do we see today the descendants three or four generations later standing still in the same place, stewing in rage over 75 year old history. In no other cases do we have the descendants of those refugees sitting in their new countries but the new country refuses to give citizenship to people who have been there multiple generations like we see in Lebanon for example. In other cases, people tried to go back, but if it wasn’t working after a while, they moved on and their families started new lives in new places. It ain’t perfect but that’s how life works on this rock. 

And then in the case of Gaza, it’s even more ridiculous. Because they have had a piece of land to call their own for almost 20 years and the ability to govern it. They had space and foreign funds to be able to build something positive for themselves. But their own government has instead wasted and destroyed it all in pointless fighting. 

On 4/17/2024 at 12:21 AM, hawdini said:

anyway stop playing devils advocate, i refuse to believe this is what you actually think

I’m not. I will test out specific arguments from time to time to see whether people can respond to them. But generally speaking I don’t fake a whole broad position on a large issue just as some mental exercise.

I legitimately think the Palestinian movement is a fraud verging on idolatry. I legitimately think it’s crazy that the community is more lockstep about this issue than it is about tawhid. I legitimately think it’s wrong to support the movement, and I legitimately believe people will be questioned about their support for it, especially the self-delusions and dishonesty that are involved in a lot of the modern rhetoric. 

I’ve mostly resigned myself to just leave you all to it though. But once in a while, one of you comes up with a particularly egregious lie, like Abu Hadi did here, and I can’t help myself but respond. 

[Ahmad8888]

9 hours ago, 123xo said:

Lol y'all need to relax @kadhim could be anything. He could be a real revert with his own personalised political views, he could also be a troll with so much time but again i just realised that this man has been on here since '03 which is a looooooooooong time... logically speaking how can someone be bothered to troll for 21yrs?  So yes cross the troll assumptions out and accept that sadly some people do have their own biased political views. 

You don't necessarily have to troll in order to be contrarian, he might enjoy this, which is very sad, he defently seems to beleive in this nonsense, this would be what differentiates him from a troll. If I remeber he even admitted to enjoying this. 

 

It's like destiny who has been doing his contrarian nonsense for almost a decade now, these people exist and it's beyond sad that people devote their time to doing this when their whole beleifs are just contrarian arguments, in some cases it's a liberal take on islam, in other cases it's straight up regurgitated zionist propaganda with more mental gymnastics, whataboutisms and assumptions about the side hes arguing against. 

Whats even worse is sometimes he outright contradicts his liberal beleifs or even shia islam on many instances just to push his own biases. 

Edited April 17 by Ahmad8888

[Ahmad8888]

16 hours ago, root said:

Look dude, you don't have to flap around like a fish out of water just because some of us can smell you 6 miles out. Better trollers and certainly more intelligent than you have come and gone here, we have seen them all. 

But eventually, and hopefully, you will learn that playing nice with words and hiding your insults and quite frankly uncle tom like mindset behind nicely formulated sentences will only get you that far. Sooner or later, people like you blow a fuse and reveal that your synapses aren't correctly wired up, so why don't you roll up your cheap booklet and try selling it to someone that isn't going to call you out on your rubbish? 

He is showing his synapses not working. In his latest comment it's like a summary of all the arguments he made, from "arabs moving voluntarily", to "palestinians didn't own their land" to "what about this society, it got colonised too! It got its population displaced", to "it's been 75 how are you people still fighting! This is insane!", then at the end, he tries gaslighting us into believing that the palestinian movement is on the verge of kufr and we will all answer for it, when his beleifs in islam are the most questionable . 

Hes a piece of work. 

[kadhim]

^ Brah. Like I’ve said many times before, including quite recently. If what I’m saying is really so ridiculous, it should be easy for articulate why. Feel free to go ahead and do so.

This shtick you have where you mug for the camera and mock what I’m saying without offering a response — it’s a little embarrassing, isn’t it? This is a chat site. Just step up and refute me without all the theatrics. Easy peasy. 

Another thing. Can we give it a rest with this stupid “contrarian” label? I don’t argue things I don’t believe in just for the sake of saying something different. Never have, never will. It’s an insult to serious issues to try to paint things like this. 

[Ahmad8888]

Anyways enough about some contrarian, I'll stick to the topic, here is an update: 

Media: 'What will you do if Israel responds?'

IRGC Aerospace Commander, Hajizadeh: 'We will strike them 100%'

-Middle_East_Spectator

Update 2:

US officials believe the Israeli response “to be limited in scope and most likely involve strikes against Iranian military forces outside Iran, and not inside Iran.”

https://thecradle.co/articles-id/24415

[kadhim]

^ Really looking forward to seeing the fruits of your smoothly firing synapses. 

Anyway. I have work to do. I’ll leave you to it, akhi. 

[Muhammed Ali]

On 4/16/2024 at 2:31 PM, root said:

What i don't understand is why people on this forum still bother to answer some of the obvious trolls and individuals who argue just for the sake of arguing? By now you have to realise that no matter how many times you beat a dead horse, it won't actually wake up. Not mentioning names, but the shia uncle toms and court jesters are well known on this forum. 

You have the power to end it.

[ShiaChat Mod]

The topic is in the title. No more talking about kadhim. 

[Muhammed Ali]

 

[Ahmad8888]

43 minutes ago, Muhammed Ali said:

 

Israel will probably do a false flag operation against america and try to blame iran for it in order to drag america into a war with iran. This would not be too farfetched as that's what israel did with iraq before by linking iraq to 9/11 and a lot of other accusations and israel has wanted for the last decades for iran to be invaded by america.

[Muhammed Ali]

8 minutes ago, Ahmad8888 said:

Israel will probably do a false flag operation against america and try to blame iran for it in order to drag america into a war with iran. This would not be too farfetched as that's what israel did with iraq before by linking iraq to 9/11 and a lot of other accusations and israel has wanted for the last decades for iran to be invaded by america.

Is that what they did with the USS Liberty?

I agree. If they could get away with it they would. But are they foolhardy enough to try it? There would be big consequences if the American public found out.

[Ahmad8888]

14 minutes ago, Muhammed Ali said:

Is that what they did with the USS Liberty?

I agree. If they could get away with it they would. But are they foolhardy enough to try it? There would be big consequences if the American public found out.

Israel tried to blame egypt for the USS liberty yes, but also with 9/11 israeli partisans linked iraq to 9/11 which gave pretext for america to invade iraq and have tens of thousands of american soldiers near iran, hezb, etc... natenyahu also went in congress to call for an invasion of iraq, but that's there and then.

[Abu Hadi]

19 hours ago, root said:

So why don't you roll up your cheap booklet and try selling it to someone that isn't going to call you out on your rubbish? 

I get confused between his and the ones that have the nice picture on the outside with all the animals grazing together in the sunshine in a field of flowers with a white guy in the middle with a long beard and a perfectly white robe. 

Then u open it up and all there is inside is nonsense. I think it's that one, maybe

[root]

2 hours ago, Muhammed Ali said:

You have the power to end it.

In the famous words of Jackie Chan in the good old first Rush Hour Movie: "I like to let people talk who like to talk. It lets me find out how full of s*** they are."

The thing is, our good friend here is good target practice for our young ones. What my comment was directed towards was our more senior members...why do they waste their time? They should know better. I mean they actually spend time writing long meaningful responses to someone that goes in to discussions with the aim of being as contrarian as possible. 

[Muhammed Ali]

1 hour ago, root said:

In the famous words of Jackie Chan in the good old first Rush Hour Movie: "I like to let people talk who like to talk. It lets me find out how full of s*** they are."

The thing is, our good friend here is good target practice for our young ones. What my comment was directed towards was our more senior members...why do they waste their time? They should know better. I mean they actually spend time writing long meaningful responses to someone that goes in to discussions with the aim of being as contrarian as possible. 

I think most people respond hoping to achieve possibly two things: 1, To change that person's mind. There is deep hope within us that even such troubled people can change. And I really do hope Kadhim will someday change. 2, To stop others being misguided. 

A few weeks ago I spent some time debating a rabid Israel supporter on another forum just so other people wouldn't be misguided. They are mostly non-Muslim British men. Thankfully pretty much everyone there is now against him and I have no idea if my debating made any difference at all.

You make a good point about him being target practice, but he can also discourage other people from reading the forum. He was the first person I have ever put on the ignore list because it was difficult having to see his angry and unreasonable posts while trying to read about a genocide.

We have had much more capable "contrarians" on this forum who may have been irritating but were at least willing to put more effort into addressing opposing arguments. 

I believe he probably had to go, but I concede that your view has validity. 

[Irfani313]

3 hours ago, Muhammed Ali said:

 

Dr. Marandi included, many political visionaries are calculating the opposite and are betting on Zio stupidity that they would propel themselves into further exposure of their tactical and technological weakness by launching either Jericho class missiles or their f-series planes. I’m coming to suspect that it won’t be an airborne attack at all.
 

My reasoning is that both methods are highly vulnerable to IRI’s air defenses who have been planning for this sort for decades, more than a handful downing of these f-series planes and the west’s military-industrial-complex is dented for decades. Reference point for me is the downing of two major classes of US drones in recent past which speaks volumes of the detection capability of the IRI’s radars. 
 

Boeing company’s already in hot waters for their code bugs and suppression of whistleblowers. This leads me to think that US would likely hard twist Zios arms to not go flying-in route and make the US made airborne technology look even bad, even though it’s the best the world so far has.  

Now comes the psychoanalysis of the bully mentality; serial bullies always need two strikes, not one, two - almost always two and not more. Unfortunately what the humanity of 2024 is dealing with is the third generation of Zios who have been raised on this mentally sick false superiority, and hence my suspicion below.  

In order to match IRI’s wit, I’m suspecting their wanna-be ego would look for the third way and that would be attacking Iran mainland from their submarine launched missiles which likely are already stationed in the Red Sea. They likely would do it shielded by the US armada in Red Sea with the consent of the rouge elements in US so any counter strike would have a potential of the US involvement.
 

I’m sure IRI’s defenders are looking at such a possibility. Looking at the IRI’s previous record of creating new realities after such events, if such a scenario does occur, I already congratulate the Bahraini Muslims of upcoming freedom from the imported royal family. Enough said!! 

Edited April 17 by Irfani313

[EiE]

I have not been keeping up with the topic here and have not had the time to read through everything. However, it is clear that there were some tensions present and it was certainly not a one-sided one.....

Returning to the topic, I have a question:

Is it permissible in Islamic teachings to send missiles or drones to your enemies knowing full well that they could harm civilians? Are collateral damage and civilian casualties considered significant?

If that is the case, then how does a Muslim nation determine whether to fire missiles or not?

 

[Haji 2003]

Public opinion in Israel divided about responding to Iran

Quote

A poll carried out by the Hebrew University of Jerusalem this week found 52 per cent of Israelis thought the country should not respond to the drone-and-missile barrage — the first time the Islamic republic has targeted the Jewish state directly from its own soil — but instead close the current round of hostilities. The rest thought Israel should retaliate, even at the risk of extending the current round.

https://www.ft.com/content/b8029d7c-77dd-4197-a0bf-c384b8ae4a25

[Ahmad8888]

On 4/17/2024 at 4:32 PM, EiE said:

Is it permissible in Islamic teachings to send missiles or drones to your enemies knowing full well that they could harm civilians? Are collateral damage and civilian casualties considered significant?

If that is the case, then how does a Muslim nation determine whether to fire missiles or not?

From what I am aware deliberately targetting civilians is haram, especially women,  children and elderly. In the military there is something called risk assesment as with a lot of jobs, in israel for example they allow the killing of 100 civilians per militant, which is psychotic in of itself, but that's if we beleive their sources, in reality they kill civilians indiscriminately as I have witnessed myself in the 2006 lebanon war, they bomb anything thats living with their drones, hence why you hide from their predator drones, especially at night, you don't turn on the lights.

But this is besides the point, I am not familliar with irans army, but I assume they have it? How they calculate it from an islamic point of view? I don't know.

Thing is this is based on chance, and it's uncertain, so I doubt it is haram, given you're not intentionally targetting civilians. Obviously it can't be 100 civilians per 1 militant as thats insane, or as psychotic as the 80 civilians per terrorist american strikes, that's just too high of a risk you're guaranteed to kill someone.

You also have to take into account that that's the only way they can attack, just like hamas for eg can only attack with unguided sugar rockets. 

[Silas]

I see all the fighting and arguing here --gentlemen we are on the same side here!

This the way I see it (and there is no perfect solution here)

1. There needs to be a two-state solution of some kind

2. Jerusalem should be an international city under some kind of combined, or collective administration. 

3. Iran, the US, Israel, and others, need to respect the final agreement, the borders, and the administration

4. The proxy wars, atrocities, and conflict need to end

I am obviously partial to the Palestinians, but I am realistic

Israel is not only a religious state, but also an ethnic and racial. Netanyahu is a Hitler-like figure, paranoid and unpredictable. Islam and Christianity have no tolerance or room for vicious racism and ethno-states (for those who practice and understand these faiths in the true sense). Judaism is ethnocentric 

the harder the battle lines, and the more antagonistic things become, the more it strengthens Netanyahu, and the more radical elements within Hamas. 

I am sure I am pointing out the obvious lol --but we are going down rabbit-holes

[Abu Nur]

This is why the Sunni world will never acknowledge the Shia resistance, they are all manipulated by lies of these scholars who think Shias leaders are only pleasing the Shia masses and that they really don't care about other Muslims and that they have done nothing for Palestians.

Edited April 18 by Abu Nur