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In the Name of God بسم الله

How long before marriage

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Guest Some Guy

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Guest Some Guy

Salam,

I (22 M) live in a country in the West. Cause of circumstances I will most likely not be able to find a wife in this country. This means that I’ll either marry from back home or neighboring countries or something. Which again means that real life contact will be limited during the engagement/getting to know eachother period. I’m of the opinion that under normal circumstances, half a year would be more than enough to get married Islamically (before moving together/having a wedding). I would however be limited to 5 weeks of being in my homecountry (of which I obviously wont be able to spend my time solely getting to know her). How long would you roughly think one would need to get to know eachother before getting married islamically under these conditions.

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Guest Some Guy said:

How long would you roughly think one would need to get to know eachother before getting married islamically under these condition

If you ask my grandmother this question she'd probably say at least 1 days notice and call you entitled for even thinking you are allowed to get to know your future spouse. Anyways why are you thinking of this right now?

Have you found anyone yet.? Have you ever spoken with a  female before ? What were the conversations like?

Edited by SO SOLID SHIA
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2 minutes ago, SO SOLID SHIA said:

If you ask my grandmother this question she'd probably say at least 1 days notice 

1 days notice seems more than enough

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24 minutes ago, SO SOLID SHIA said:

If you ask my grandmother this question she'd probably say at least 1 days notice and call you entitled for even thinking you are allowed to get to know your future spouse. Anyways why are you thinking of this right now?

Have you found anyone yet.? Have you ever spoken with a  female before ? What were the conversations like?

I proposed the idea of “entering the talking stage” to a girl a while back (talking stage would be with the blessings of the parents of course). We discussed how I viewed the idea, marriage and all. One thing was how long I would think the talking stage should last approximately before kitab etc. Given circumstances I suggested a year (since we’d only see each yearly). She thought it would be too long since the longer you talk the bigger the risk of haram interaction (understandable). Now I wonder if it is. 

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On 4/13/2024 at 8:05 PM, Guest Some Guy said:

She thought it would be too long since the longer you talk the bigger the risk of haram interaction (understandable). Now I wonder if it is. 

Salam knowing each other has no time limit although basic understanding of each other likewise during a year is a good idea which you can do Mutah for a year for not committing any Haram in interaction ; so then make it a permanent  marriage if you have reached to a positive conclusion about each other in both sides ; anyway process of knowing each other must continues even after your permanent marriage in order to you found interesting things about yourselves & refreshing your love & preventing of having a boring life with each other. 

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On 4/13/2024 at 9:35 AM, Guest Some Guy said:

She thought it would be too long since the longer you talk the bigger the risk of haram interaction (understandable

Salaam...this is interesting, especially when as mentioned by someone else, temporary marriage would "protect" the both if you from haram especially if all you would both be doing during that amount of time is talking other than the 5 weeks youre able to actually see her off and on while visiting..is she in a hurry to get married?

As someone else mentioned, there is no time limit on how long to get to know somebody for..the more a person is able to see the other in all the different types of situations life throws at them, the better you both will be able to judge how you each cope and react to these situations and how compatible that is for you both. Some people have extremely poor coping skills but you won't know that until they end up in a situation where they're forced to show their true nature. Other people, are extremely generous and giving, yet you might not see that from them unless the correct circumstance arises. Other people have serious anger management control issues, and you won't know that until you see them in a situation where they are extremely upset about something and how they manage themselves.

So the good and the bad eventually come out when getting to know somebody.

Marriage isn't a game and its a very serious decision.. most people only want/plan to go through it once. It's not something I would be in a hurry to get into unless there are some very pressing reasons to do it immediately.

I know generally we hear people saying you should get married right away, but the world is a very different place now than it ever has been, things have changed more in the last few hundred years than they have in thousands of years, that also means people have changed as far as behaviors, attitudes and responses are concerned. I say take your time. I don't see what the rush is.

w/s

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Guest Some Guy

Salam all,

Thank you for your replies, they were very useful. With regards to temporary marriage before the kitab, that’s unheard of in my culture unfortunately. My question was actually more about the maximum amount perhaps rather than the minimum. The longer you know someone, the better informed the decision will be. But eventually a talking stage needs to come to an end and a decision needs to be made. Personally, I’m not in a rush, but I do agree that the longer you talk, the looser the social hijab becomes which might be dangerous. Anyways, it looks like I will be waiting for a while before taking initiative again. Thanks again all for ur input.

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On 4/13/2024 at 12:24 PM, 123xo said:

Hi i personally don't believe in a specific timeline for marriage/getting to know someone etc...  when you meet the one you'll instantly want to marry them. 

Then how come so many get married and then get divorced? It's always a good idea to discuss as much as possible and not rely on the feelings of "affection" or instincts. 

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1 hour ago, Shian e Ali said:

Then how come so many get married and then get divorced? It's always a good idea to discuss as much as possible and not rely on the feelings of "affection" or instincts. 

*incoming catfight*

 

200.webp

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3 hours ago, Shian e Ali said:

Then how come so many get married and then get divorced?

Im reading a book on this right now its called, why marriages succeed or fail and how you can make yours last by John Gottman.

 

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7 hours ago, Shian e Ali said:

Then how come so many get married and then get divorced? It's always a good idea to discuss as much as possible and not rely on the feelings of "affection" or instincts. 

And what's wrong with getting a divorce ? haven't you purchased something before and then went back for return/exchange? 

Also just cause you spend time and "discuss" with the other person that doesn't guarantee a long successful marriage with no possibility of divorce after. Haven't you heard or seen high school sweethearts that dated for (x) years  only to get divorced after being married for a short period of time? 

Time isn't always the answer. 

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50 minutes ago, hawdini said:

John Gottman.

I am also a fan of Gottman for couples therapy. The Gottman's say they can predict the outcome of a conversation by the first 3 minutes. So if the conversation is bad for 3 minutes probably doesn't make sense to continue it. They haven't figured out a way to predict the outcome of a marriage based on the first 3 months of a relationship though. 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, hawdini said:

whats your opinion on what she said :furious:

I think the only important things to know...history of mental health and any daddy issues (one usually determines the other )

It's not BAD to rely on feelings and instincts but it's a bit primary school-ish thinking 

 

@Azadeh-2009 yes I think that's true especially the content of those first 3 minutes . Most of the time it's 

 

Screenshot_20240418-150536~2.jpg

Edited by SO SOLID SHIA
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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, SO SOLID SHIA said:

I think the only important things to know...history of mental health and any daddy issues (one usually determines the other )

Just cause you have never been loved or had someone fall in-love with you from the first meeting, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist or requires some sort of "mental health" or "daddy issues". In fact healthy people find love easily, it's those people with issues and trauma or those who have been rejected all their lives find it hard to find love and/or feel instant connection/attraction to others.

Edited by 123xo
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1 hour ago, 123xo said:

Just cause you have never been loved or had someone fall in-love with you from the first meeting, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist or requires some sort of "mental health" or "daddy issues". In fact healthy people find love easily, it's those people with issues and trauma or those who have been rejected all their lives find it hard to find love and/or feel instant connection/attraction to others.

Salam alaykum dolly 

Oh no! I was responding to what your bestie @Shian e Ali said. I wasn't implying that those who fall for someone on the first sight have Asperger's or daddy issues at all. I don't have a problem with ppl who fall for me upon seeing me for the first time as it's something I'm quite used to however it's not something I would feel toward someone as I was saying I'd like to know what's going on beneath the surface. Does that clear it up for you?

Hey listen I saw what you wrote before you edited it and David is SO wrong about you. You're not a kind girl either

 

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14 minutes ago, SO SOLID SHIA said:

Salam alaykum dolly 

Oh no! I was responding to what your bestie @Shian e Ali said. I wasn't implying that those who fall for someone on the first sight have Asperger's or daddy issues at all. I don't have a problem with ppl who fall for me upon seeing me for the first time as it's something I'm quite used to however it's not something I would feel toward someone as I was saying I'd like to know what's going on beneath the surface. Does that clear it up for you?

Hey listen I saw what you wrote before you edited it and David is SO wrong about you. You're not a kind girl either

 

Oh okie if you're saying @Shian e Ali has mental health and daddy issues i'm fine with that xox

heheheheh no you didn't :love: David is asleep now he has to be at werk at 6am :( imma cri &&&& heyyy if i wasn't kind i would left what i said but i felt bad xoo

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14 hours ago, 123xo said:

And what's wrong with getting a divorce ? haven't you purchased something before and then went back for return/exchange? 

Also just cause you spend time and "discuss" with the other person that doesn't guarantee a long successful marriage with no possibility of divorce after. Haven't you heard or seen high school sweethearts that dated for (x) years  only to get divorced after being married for a short period of time? 

Time isn't always the answer. 

All I said is, your previous comment on what you think is wrong. Things don't work that way. 

On 4/13/2024 at 12:24 PM, 123xo said:

when you meet the one you'll instantly want to marry them. 

If you know who you wanna marry and then divorce them, apparently your instincts were wrong. 

Also the examples you gave above, we're Muslims. Marriage isn't a joke for us, and divorce isn't equivalent to "return/exchange" 

You're obviously far from manners and Islamic knowledge. That's why I avoid responding but your foolish advice for others is just.. annoying. 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Shian e Ali said:

All I said is, your previous comment on what you think is wrong. Things don't work that way. 

If you know who you wanna marry and then divorce them, apparently your instincts were wrong. 

Also the examples you gave above, we're Muslims. Marriage isn't a joke for us, and divorce isn't equivalent to "return/exchange" 

You're obviously far from manners and Islamic knowledge. That's why I avoid responding but your foolish advice for others is just.. annoying. 

Divorce is halal 

You love my advices, probs keep you up all night thinking about it xo

Edited by 123xo
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6 hours ago, Shian e Ali said:

You're obviously far from manners and Islamic knowledge. That's why I avoid responding but your foolish advice for others is just.. annoying. 

giphy.webp?cid=790b76111xrq25zc990et8f8a

 

1 hour ago, 123xo said:

You love my advices, probs keep you up all night thinking about it xo

200.webp

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On 4/18/2024 at 6:52 AM, 123xo said:

And what's wrong with getting a divorce ? haven't you purchased something before and then went back for return/exchange? 

girly i agree with you but i think its wrong to have a divorce mindset, especially if you have children, it is your responsibility to make it work with your husband if you have children. Children deserve to grow up with both parents.

 

On 4/13/2024 at 6:24 PM, 123xo said:

Hi i personally don't believe in a specific timeline for marriage/getting to know someone etc...  when you meet the one you'll instantly want to marry them.

Also i agree with this kinda especially the man has to have this kind of feeling in the beginning, but its a dangerous thing for a woman. As a woman it is very important to make the logical choice here and not go base of feeling. It is generally easy for men to up and leave so its important you make a sound decision for your future family.

 

On 4/18/2024 at 6:55 AM, Azadeh307 said:

They haven't figured out a way to predict the outcome of a marriage based on the first 3 months of a relationship though. 

this would be kind of futile, since relationships go through different phases and in the beginning youre just getting to know eachother a little bit. Im also reading a book by Stan Tatkin right now do you know him?

 

On 4/18/2024 at 3:59 PM, SO SOLID SHIA said:

I think the only important things to know...history of mental health and any daddy issues (one usually determines the other )

I agree with you but what do you mean with daddy issues? Like she is promiscuous? Because daddy issues could mean alot of things.

 

On 4/18/2024 at 9:55 PM, Shian e Ali said:

You're obviously far from manners and Islamic knowledge. That's why I avoid responding but your foolish advice for others is just.. annoying. 

why so mean idgi you talk to her like she owes your family debt

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Posted (edited)
On 4/13/2024 at 12:24 PM, 123xo said:

Hi i personally don't believe in a specific timeline for marriage/getting to know someone etc...  when you meet the one you'll instantly want to marry them. 

You'll instantly want to be with them physically. That's called lust. I agree that that's part of marriage and an important part but it's not the 'whole enchilada'. 

Like others have said whether a couple is compatible for marriage depends on many things, their values, goals for life, preferences, morality, personality type, etc. You can't tell all that instantly. Sorry. 

To the OPs question, there's not a specific amount of time in terms of weeks or months. You need enough time to figure out if u are compatible, long term. That includes talking about things like children, career goals, preferences for things like where u want to live, her thoughts about religion, family, life in general. In addition seeing her in enough different situations where u see how she reacts to different things that happen, like what was stated in previous posts. Anyone can say that they are kind, patients, good tempered, moral, etc but u don't really know until u see them in situations where it is not in their material interests to be that way and yet they maintain their values despite that.

 

Edited by Abu Hadi
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3 hours ago, hawdini said:

I agree with you but what do you mean with daddy issues? Like she is promiscuous? Because daddy issues could mean alot of things

I meant daddy as in father, but now that you mention it....Daddy issues leads to Dzaddy issues. It's all one

Wahdatul wujood

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

You'll instantly want to be with them physically. That's called lust. I agree that that's part of marriage and an important part but it's not the 'whole enchilada'. 

Like others have said whether a couple is compatible for marriage depends on many things, their values, goals for life, preferences, morality, personality type, etc. You can't tell all that instantly. Sorry. 

To the OPs question, there's not a specific amount of time in terms of weeks or months. You need enough time to figure out if u are compatible, long term. That includes talking about things like children, career goals, preferences for things like where u want to live, her thoughts about religion, family, life in general. In addition seeing her in enough different situations where u see how she reacts to different things that happen, like what was stated in previous posts. Anyone can say that they are kind, patients, good tempered, moral, etc but u don't really know until u see them in situations where it is not in their material interests to be that way and yet they maintain their values despite that.

 

In my humble opinion physical attraction and lust is so important if you want a long lasting relationship, because morals and values you can come across a lot of people that share the same values and morals as you it's not hard to find nor is it rare, especially if it's someone that comes from the same cultural background and shares the same faith/beliefs. 

So i can't just base my marriage compatibility with someone just cause they share the same values and morals as me?  Also important to note, my opinion is based on the fact that i don't easily get physically attracted to just any man to the point where i want to marry them, when i said "the one" i meant someone that ticks all the boxes for me. I have seen a lot of attractive men physically but i never had this strong urge,interest  or desire to be with them, like i'd acknowledge their attractiveness for 2seconds then i'd move on with my day. After i met David, honestly no one is attractive in my eyes at all no matter who the guy is i just can't see or think that there's anyone attractive wallahi.

However for some people they just get physically attracted to just any attractive person that passes them in this case this will never work and is dangerous as they have to look for something beyond physical attraction when trying to build a relationship. 

While shared values and morals are important it is also crucial to feel that fire-y spark and strong desire for someone.

 

PS: i also forgive you all for not understanding my point, as you haven't met/seen my scrumptious heartthrob. 
                :love::love: :love::love: :love::love: :love::love:

Edited by 123xo
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13 minutes ago, 123xo said:

PS: i also forgive you all for not understanding my point, as you haven't met/seen my scrumptious heartthrob.

I pray he's happy with you too.

 

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1 hour ago, SO SOLID SHIA said:

I meant daddy as in father, but now that you mention it....Daddy issues leads to Dzaddy issues. It's all one

Wahdatul wujood

loooool wth you know what ive learned my lesson, im never responding to you again

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2 hours ago, 123xo said:

In my humble opinion physical attraction and lust is so important if you want a long lasting relationship, because morals and values you can come across a lot of people that share the same values and morals as you it's not hard to find nor is it rare, especially if it's someone that comes from the same cultural background and shares the same faith/beliefs. 

So i can't just base my marriage compatibility with someone just cause they share the same values and morals as me?  Also important to note, my opinion is based on the fact that i don't easily get physically attracted to just any man to the point where i want to marry them, when i said "the one" i meant someone that ticks all the boxes for me. I have seen a lot of attractive men physically but i never had this strong urge,interest  or desire to be with them, like i'd acknowledge their attractiveness for 2seconds then i'd move on with my day. After i met David, honestly no one is attractive in my eyes at all no matter who the guy is i just can't see or think that there's anyone attractive wallahi.

However for some people they just get physically attracted to just any attractive person that passes them in this case this will never work and is dangerous as they have to look for something beyond physical attraction when trying to build a relationship. 

While shared values and morals are important it is also crucial to feel that fire-y spark and strong desire for someone.

 

PS: i also forgive you all for not understanding my point, as you haven't met/seen my scrumptious heartthrob. 
                :love::love: :love::love: :love::love: :love::love:

I wont act as if I am an expert but back in the day people saw marriage as a contract, as a means to get closer to Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), if I am not mistaken most people did not care about physical attraction, they just did whatever their parents chose for them and then went for it because generally they trusted their parents judgment? These marriages tended to last very long. 

My grandparents for example stayed together for 70 years, until my grandfather passed away at 93 rahimuhu lah. 

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Posted (edited)

I just recommended a friend to wait 2-4 months after a first meeting to get married. It is her second marriage, and her family are abroad. Other people in my friend group recommended she wait 2-4 meetings but I feel this is too soon given that the man is not someone her family is aware of yet. 

Edited by Azadeh307
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7 hours ago, hawdini said:

Im also reading a book by Stan Tatkin right now do you know him?

I don't know of Stan Tatkin but I looked him up. It seems he writes about attachment style and how the brain works, right? I do like attachment style and tend to couch it in terms of polyvagel theory (when it comes to how the nervous system works.) Here is a useful free quiz on Attachment Style that I use in my clinical practice when I am working with couples or individuals who seek therapy based on relationships issues. It is based on the book, "How We Love." 

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On 4/12/2024 at 2:47 PM, Guest Some Guy said:

married Islamically (before moving together/having a wedding). I would however be limited to 5 weeks of being in my homecountry (of which I

In my last post I recommended 2-4 months so wanted to clarify.. if you have 5 weeks in-person and spend 2-3 months corresponding with phone and email that may be sufficient, insha’Allah 

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On 4/21/2024 at 1:12 PM, hawdini said:

why so mean idgi you talk to her like she owes your family debt

I don't like the way she talks to others. Go through her posts, and you'll find she lacks manners, is constantly assuming things, and is a racist. Oh, and she loves to push her beliefs on others, kinda annoying if you ask me. Sometimes I wonder if that's a troll account pretending to be a Shi'a woman. 

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2 minutes ago, Shian e Ali said:

I don't like the way she talks to others. Go through her posts, and you'll find she lacks manners, is constantly assuming things, and is a racist. Oh, and she loves to push her beliefs on others, kinda annoying if you ask me. Sometimes I wonder if that's a troll account pretending to be a Shi'a woman. 

:shifty:

 

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