I am a Sunni, and I have been lied to and deceived my whole life

[saberrider]

As Salam Alaykum.

 

This is going to be a confession, a revelation and most of all, a rant.

Throughout Ramzan, I have been feeling frustrated, upset and angry, since finding out certain things in Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim.

Time for some context.

I grew up in a Barelvi Sunni household. My parents are staunch Barelvi Sunnis, in practice and faith. I was named after Abdul Qadir Jilani, his honorific title (AKA “Ghous-e-Pak” amongst Pakistani Barlevis).

As I have grew in my late 20s, I discovered some of the beliefs of the Barlevi sect - I grew uncomfortable with them, and I drifted away and dissociated myself. I started calling myself “Sunni Hanafi”, which I still am.

Ever since as a child, I had been exposed to the Shia Muslims in Pakistan. Shias make up of around 15-20 percent of the Muslim population in Pakistan. I have been hearing ugly things about Shia my whole life - people in my family would say that they are “bad Muslims” - a lot of Sunni so-called scholars openly have called Shias “Kafirs” and outside the sphere of Islam. People would say stuff like Shias go too far for their love for Ali ((عليه السلام)) and that they do bidah. And I would be warned not to eat with Shias because they spit in your food when you are not looking. And they do Matam, and cry on Karbela, because, get this - they are the ones who killed Hussain ((عليه السلام)). Absurd accusations.

Growing up in such an environment, its hard not to see things from outside the bubble. I never went so far to call Shias kafir, but I would be lying if I didnt have reservations with the Shia sect. All that I knew of Islamic history and teachings, was from my GCE O level subject “Islamiat” (I later on found out that it was severely lacking in teaching us teenagers on what ACTUALLY happened). 

It all changed once I met my now-close friend, M. 

M is Shia. I met M more than a decade ago in my university. As time went on, we became good friends. We would talk about Sunni-Shia topics. M’s father is a esteemed religious scholar of Shia Islam. Through our discussions, he clarified a lot of the misunderstandings that Sunnis think of Shias. He would also tell me about things that are written in Sunni Hadith Collections that concur with the Shia faith.

Some 7-8 years ago, I discovered the reason of WHY Shias do not like or respect Umar ibn al-Khattab - I found about the “Umar at Fatima’s house” incident on Wikipedia. I was shocked by what I discovered. I couldn't understand why do Sunni scholars about this and why havent I been taught about this since childhood.

And then later on down the road, I found about Hazrat Ali ((عليه السلام)) being cursed for 50 years and the hadith of  Mu'awiya ibn Abi Sufyan asking Saad bin Abi Waqqas ((رضي الله عنه)) why does he not Curse Ali ((عليه السلام)). 

Then, as years went by, I found about the hadith of Ghadir Khumm (which I later on found out is celebrated as “Eid-e-Ghadeer” by Shias worldwide) . Again, I was shocked that how come we Sunnis since childhood haven't been taught about this. 

As time went on, it was one thing or the other - The issue of “Fadak” and Abu Bakr’s role in it, etc.

It also came to a breaking point this Ramzan. All thanks to Ammar Nakshwani’s Ramzan lecture series on YouTube. What he has done is very well done - he mostly quotes from Sunni hadith collections and highlights what’s written in our Sunni books. The things that we are taught about. 

Through him, I came to realise and find out about the “Hadith of Pen and Paper”. I had heard about it before, but this time, when I actually read the text itself, I felt what I never imagined I would feel about the 2nd Caliph……….I felt infuriated. I felt this anger and frustration. Here was the Prophet of Islam (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) on his deathbed, and he was refused a request. How….HOW can ANYONE do that ? It blows my mind. And then, I hear people like Assim Al-Hakeem defending Umar ibn al-Khattab, and I wonder out loud…….WHY ARE YOU DEFENDING HIM ?!

I have come to the realisation that us Sunnis have been lied to, or misguided. Things that are written in OUR OWN Sunni books, they are hidden from us by our Sunni scholars. Like for example, that in Sunni Islam, it is also allowed to combine the prayers, just like Shia Islam. NOBODY TOLD ME THAT!

Years ago, my cousin once remarked that you shouldnt debate with Shias because they have “a lot of information”. And I remember thinking, thats such an insecure way of thinking, and I still believe that. I would much rather get authentic knowledge, compared to blindly following a religion.

Another thing that isnt talked about as much as it should have is the importance of respecting and loving the Ahle Bait ((عليه السلام)), the Prophet’s Family. Since my childhood, everyone talks about the qualities of the first 3 Caliphs, but nobody puts the emphasis on his ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) family ((عليه السلام)). 

I havent watched all the lecture series of Ammar Nakshwani, but In sh’Allah, i plan on watching all the Ramzan lecture episodes - I am sure I will learn a lot of what is written in my own Sunni books. Like for example, Bibi Aisha’s controversial actions, etc. 

I am sorry for the long rant. Its just frustrating that all 35 years of your life, you have been misguided and been given misinformation.

Now that I am finding out about the controversial Islamic history of personalities such as Bibi Aisha, the first 3 Caliphs, and  Mu'awiya ibn Abi Sufyan, it makes me wonder…….Should I intervene in my immediate family and tell them all the things that they do not know? All the Islamic history that nobody talks about in Sunni Islam. I am wrestling with this notion nowadays.

Shia scholar Jawad Qazwini came over to Karachi this past Ramzan and had a lecture series (Dars-e-Quran) in a local Shia mosque/Imam Bargah. Alhamdulilah, I had the pleasure of attending it and I learnt a few things.

I hope that on this journey, Allah guides me to the truth, and May Allah guide us to love the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) and his Ahle Bait ((عليه السلام)). Ameen. 

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

[145_turbo_16V]

Salam Saberrider sahb,

is this your story or are you posting someone else's story?

Also if you ask a lot of Sunnis they will say that "how do you know what was going to be written? You shias have wild imaginations". I've talked to so many of these types before. They will say "even if Rasullullah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was going to appoint someone, it would be Abu Bakr". But the fact is, many deny that leadership was on Rasullullah's (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) mind and that he (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) left it to the ummah.

But if you look at Ibn Hajr's Fath Al Bari you will see under the keyword kitaban, he writes, it was about leadership. Now this DOESN'T PROVE Imamah or khilafah BUT, it does prove that there are sunnis who believe that the question of leadership was on Rasullullah's (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) mind.

Edited April 11 by 145_turbo_16V

[saberrider]

29 minutes ago, 145_turbo_16V said:

Salam Saberrider sahb,

is this your story or are you posting someone else's story?

Also if you ask a lot of Sunnis they will say that "how do you know what was going to be written? You shias have wild imaginations". I've talked to so many of these types before. They will say "even if Rasullullah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was going to appoint someone, it would be Abu Bakr". But the fact is, many deny that leadership was on Rasullullah's (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) mind and that he (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) left it to the ummah.

But if you look at Ibn Hajr's Fath Al Bari you will see under the keyword kitaban, he writes, it was about leadership. Now this DOESN'T PROVE Imamah or khilafah BUT, it does prove that there are sunnis who believe that the question of leadership was on Rasullullah's (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) mind.

Walakum Salam.

This is my own story.

[Guest Rasha]

Assalamu alaykum, may Allah make ur journey easier and congratulations on the wilaya of ahlul-bayt!! I think if u want to introduce the idea to ur family, definitely prepare urself with all the information you need and ask Allah for help. At the end of the day, it is Allah who guides, so don’t feel discouraged/disappointed if ur family doesn’t agree with u. If you’d like u can share ur exact story with them like u did here. If they join u then AlhamduliAllah but if they don’t then u tried and Allah sees ur efforts, at the end of the day they are Muslims and believe in Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and that’s most important. Praying for u and ur family

[Abu_Zahra]

Wa alaikum as salam brother 

I wouldn't put it as 'you have been lied to your whole life'. Rather, I am sure you have learnt a lot of beneficial things, alhamdulillah, and now there are some points where you have seen or learnt a different perspective.  Learning is a life long journey. Among the Shia as well, not everything one hears as a child or youngster is necessarily accurate. 

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) grant us the sincerity to seek the truth and to remain true to the Quran and the teachings of the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)). 

[Guest Water]

Wa Alaikum Assalam. May Allah reward your sincerity. I hope you find what you are looking for.

[Guest Asad]

13 hours ago, saberrider said:

Walakum Salam.

This is my own story.

 

14 hours ago, saberrider said:

As Salam Alaykum.

 

This is going to be a confession, a revelation and most of all, a rant.

Throughout Ramzan, I have been feeling frustrated, upset and angry, since finding out certain things in Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim.

Time for some context.

I grew up in a Barelvi Sunni household. My parents are staunch Barelvi Sunnis, in practice and faith. I was named after Abdul Qadir Jilani, his honorific title (AKA “Ghous-e-Pak” amongst Pakistani Barlevis).

As I have grew in my late 20s, I discovered some of the beliefs of the Barlevi sect - I grew uncomfortable with them, and I drifted away and dissociated myself. I started calling myself “Sunni Hanafi”, which I still am.

Ever since as a child, I had been exposed to the Shia Muslims in Pakistan. Shias make up of around 15-20 percent of the Muslim population in Pakistan. I have been hearing ugly things about Shia my whole life - people in my family would say that they are “bad Muslims” - a lot of Sunni so-called scholars openly have called Shias “Kafirs” and outside the sphere of Islam. People would say stuff like Shias go too far for their love for Ali ((عليه السلام)) and that they do bidah. And I would be warned not to eat with Shias because they spit in your food when you are not looking. And they do Matam, and cry on Karbela, because, get this - they are the ones who killed Hussain ((عليه السلام)). Absurd accusations.

Growing up in such an environment, its hard not to see things from outside the bubble. I never went so far to call Shias kafir, but I would be lying if I didnt have reservations with the Shia sect. All that I knew of Islamic history and teachings, was from my GCE O level subject “Islamiat” (I later on found out that it was severely lacking in teaching us teenagers on what ACTUALLY happened). 

It all changed once I met my now-close friend, M. 

M is Shia. I met M more than a decade ago in my university. As time went on, we became good friends. We would talk about Sunni-Shia topics. M’s father is a esteemed religious scholar of Shia Islam. Through our discussions, he clarified a lot of the misunderstandings that Sunnis think of Shias. He would also tell me about things that are written in Sunni Hadith Collections that concur with the Shia faith.

Some 7-8 years ago, I discovered the reason of WHY Shias do not like or respect Umar ibn al-Khattab - I found about the “Umar at Fatima’s house” incident on Wikipedia. I was shocked by what I discovered. I couldn't understand why do Sunni scholars about this and why havent I been taught about this since childhood.

And then later on down the road, I found about Hazrat Ali ((عليه السلام)) being cursed for 50 years and the hadith of  Mu'awiya ibn Abi Sufyan asking Saad bin Abi Waqqas ((رضي الله عنه)) why does he not Curse Ali ((عليه السلام)). 

Then, as years went by, I found about the hadith of Ghadir Khumm (which I later on found out is celebrated as “Eid-e-Ghadeer” by Shias worldwide) . Again, I was shocked that how come we Sunnis since childhood haven't been taught about this. 

As time went on, it was one thing or the other - The issue of “Fadak” and Abu Bakr’s role in it, etc.

It also came to a breaking point this Ramzan. All thanks to Ammar Nakshwani’s Ramzan lecture series on YouTube. What he has done is very well done - he mostly quotes from Sunni hadith collections and highlights what’s written in our Sunni books. The things that we are taught about. 

Through him, I came to realise and find out about the “Hadith of Pen and Paper”. I had heard about it before, but this time, when I actually read the text itself, I felt what I never imagined I would feel about the 2nd Caliph……….I felt infuriated. I felt this anger and frustration. Here was the Prophet of Islam (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) on his deathbed, and he was refused a request. How….HOW can ANYONE do that ? It blows my mind. And then, I hear people like Assim Al-Hakeem defending Umar ibn al-Khattab, and I wonder out loud…….WHY ARE YOU DEFENDING HIM ?!

I have come to the realisation that us Sunnis have been lied to, or misguided. Things that are written in OUR OWN Sunni books, they are hidden from us by our Sunni scholars. Like for example, that in Sunni Islam, it is also allowed to combine the prayers, just like Shia Islam. NOBODY TOLD ME THAT!

Years ago, my cousin once remarked that you shouldnt debate with Shias because they have “a lot of information”. And I remember thinking, thats such an insecure way of thinking, and I still believe that. I would much rather get authentic knowledge, compared to blindly following a religion.

Another thing that isnt talked about as much as it should have is the importance of respecting and loving the Ahle Bait ((عليه السلام)), the Prophet’s Family. Since my childhood, everyone talks about the qualities of the first 3 Caliphs, but nobody puts the emphasis on his ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) family ((عليه السلام)). 

I havent watched all the lecture series of Ammar Nakshwani, but In sh’Allah, i plan on watching all the Ramzan lecture episodes - I am sure I will learn a lot of what is written in my own Sunni books. Like for example, Bibi Aisha’s controversial actions, etc. 

I am sorry for the long rant. Its just frustrating that all 35 years of your life, you have been misguided and been given misinformation.

Now that I am finding out about the controversial Islamic history of personalities such as Bibi Aisha, the first 3 Caliphs, and  Mu'awiya ibn Abi Sufyan, it makes me wonder…….Should I intervene in my immediate family and tell them all the things that they do not know? All the Islamic history that nobody talks about in Sunni Islam. I am wrestling with this notion nowadays.

Shia scholar Jawad Qazwini came over to Karachi this past Ramzan and had a lecture series (Dars-e-Quran) in a local Shia mosque/Imam Bargah. Alhamdulilah, I had the pleasure of attending it and I learnt a few things.

I hope that on this journey, Allah guides me to the truth, and May Allah guide us to love the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) and his Ahle Bait ((عليه السلام)). Ameen. 

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

Thank you

[saberrider]

16 hours ago, Abu_Zahra said:

Wa alaikum as salam brother 

I wouldn't put it as 'you have been lied to your whole life'. Rather, I am sure you have learnt a lot of beneficial things, alhamdulillah, and now there are some points where you have seen or learnt a different perspective.  Learning is a life long journey. Among the Shia as well, not everything one hears as a child or youngster is necessarily accurate. 

Yes, you are right. I wasnt "lied" to, but i definitely feel betrayed by the scholars of my Islamic sect. “Misguided” will be a more suitable word. 

 

16 hours ago, Abu_Zahra said:

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) grant us the sincerity to seek the truth and to remain true to the Quran and the teachings of the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)). 

 

Ameen Ya Allah. Thank you.

[Ashvazdanghe]

Salam it's arealted thread

 

[sunnism]

On 4/12/2024 at 2:54 AM, saberrider said:

As Salam Alaykum.

 

This is going to be a confession, a revelation and most of all, a rant.

Throughout Ramzan, I have been feeling frustrated, upset and angry, since finding out certain things in Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim.

Time for some context.

I grew up in a Barelvi Sunni household. My parents are staunch Barelvi Sunnis, in practice and faith. I was named after Abdul Qadir Jilani, his honorific title (AKA “Ghous-e-Pak” amongst Pakistani Barlevis).

As I have grew in my late 20s, I discovered some of the beliefs of the Barlevi sect - I grew uncomfortable with them, and I drifted away and dissociated myself. I started calling myself “Sunni Hanafi”, which I still am.

Ever since as a child, I had been exposed to the Shia Muslims in Pakistan. Shias make up of around 15-20 percent of the Muslim population in Pakistan. I have been hearing ugly things about Shia my whole life - people in my family would say that they are “bad Muslims” - a lot of Sunni so-called scholars openly have called Shias “Kafirs” and outside the sphere of Islam. People would say stuff like Shias go too far for their love for Ali ((عليه السلام)) and that they do bidah. And I would be warned not to eat with Shias because they spit in your food when you are not looking. And they do Matam, and cry on Karbela, because, get this - they are the ones who killed Hussain ((عليه السلام)). Absurd accusations.

Growing up in such an environment, its hard not to see things from outside the bubble. I never went so far to call Shias kafir, but I would be lying if I didnt have reservations with the Shia sect. All that I knew of Islamic history and teachings, was from my GCE O level subject “Islamiat” (I later on found out that it was severely lacking in teaching us teenagers on what ACTUALLY happened). 

It all changed once I met my now-close friend, M. 

M is Shia. I met M more than a decade ago in my university. As time went on, we became good friends. We would talk about Sunni-Shia topics. M’s father is a esteemed religious scholar of Shia Islam. Through our discussions, he clarified a lot of the misunderstandings that Sunnis think of Shias. He would also tell me about things that are written in Sunni Hadith Collections that concur with the Shia faith.

Some 7-8 years ago, I discovered the reason of WHY Shias do not like or respect Umar ibn al-Khattab - I found about the “Umar at Fatima’s house” incident on Wikipedia. I was shocked by what I discovered. I couldn't understand why do Sunni scholars about this and why havent I been taught about this since childhood.

And then later on down the road, I found about Hazrat Ali ((عليه السلام)) being cursed for 50 years and the hadith of  Mu'awiya ibn Abi Sufyan asking Saad bin Abi Waqqas ((رضي الله عنه)) why does he not Curse Ali ((عليه السلام)). 

Then, as years went by, I found about the hadith of Ghadir Khumm (which I later on found out is celebrated as “Eid-e-Ghadeer” by Shias worldwide) . Again, I was shocked that how come we Sunnis since childhood haven't been taught about this. 

As time went on, it was one thing or the other - The issue of “Fadak” and Abu Bakr’s role in it, etc.

It also came to a breaking point this Ramzan. All thanks to Ammar Nakshwani’s Ramzan lecture series on YouTube. What he has done is very well done - he mostly quotes from Sunni hadith collections and highlights what’s written in our Sunni books. The things that we are taught about. 

Through him, I came to realise and find out about the “Hadith of Pen and Paper”. I had heard about it before, but this time, when I actually read the text itself, I felt what I never imagined I would feel about the 2nd Caliph……….I felt infuriated. I felt this anger and frustration. Here was the Prophet of Islam (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) on his deathbed, and he was refused a request. How….HOW can ANYONE do that ? It blows my mind. And then, I hear people like Assim Al-Hakeem defending Umar ibn al-Khattab, and I wonder out loud…….WHY ARE YOU DEFENDING HIM ?!

I have come to the realisation that us Sunnis have been lied to, or misguided. Things that are written in OUR OWN Sunni books, they are hidden from us by our Sunni scholars. Like for example, that in Sunni Islam, it is also allowed to combine the prayers, just like Shia Islam. NOBODY TOLD ME THAT!

Years ago, my cousin once remarked that you shouldnt debate with Shias because they have “a lot of information”. And I remember thinking, thats such an insecure way of thinking, and I still believe that. I would much rather get authentic knowledge, compared to blindly following a religion.

Another thing that isnt talked about as much as it should have is the importance of respecting and loving the Ahle Bait ((عليه السلام)), the Prophet’s Family. Since my childhood, everyone talks about the qualities of the first 3 Caliphs, but nobody puts the emphasis on his ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) family ((عليه السلام)). 

I havent watched all the lecture series of Ammar Nakshwani, but In sh’Allah, i plan on watching all the Ramzan lecture episodes - I am sure I will learn a lot of what is written in my own Sunni books. Like for example, Bibi Aisha’s controversial actions, etc. 

I am sorry for the long rant. Its just frustrating that all 35 years of your life, you have been misguided and been given misinformation.

Now that I am finding out about the controversial Islamic history of personalities such as Bibi Aisha, the first 3 Caliphs, and  Mu'awiya ibn Abi Sufyan, it makes me wonder…….Should I intervene in my immediate family and tell them all the things that they do not know? All the Islamic history that nobody talks about in Sunni Islam. I am wrestling with this notion nowadays.

Shia scholar Jawad Qazwini came over to Karachi this past Ramzan and had a lecture series (Dars-e-Quran) in a local Shia mosque/Imam Bargah. Alhamdulilah, I had the pleasure of attending it and I learnt a few things.

I hope that on this journey, Allah guides me to the truth, and May Allah guide us to love the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) and his Ahle Bait ((عليه السلام)). Ameen. 

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

I grew up listening to every single shia arguments you have quoted. I am still sunni. 

[123xo]

36 minutes ago, sunnism said:

I grew up listening to every single shia arguments you have quoted. I am still sunni. 

Indeed it is not the eyes that are blind but it is the hearts 22:46

[Ahmad8888]

1 hour ago, sunnism said:

I grew up listening to every single shia arguments you have quoted. I am still sunni. 

Not everyone is convinced by the same things, you should know this as a muslim yourself. I know many people who reverted to islam for reasons I would never accept myself, so my suggestion is to not be arrogant and give him feedback instead of whatever this is. One thing that's for sure is your sentence won't convince him of anything. 

Edited April 19 by Ahmad8888

[realizm]

On 4/12/2024 at 12:23 AM, saberrider said:

Walakum Salam.

This is my own story.

I always thought you were shia !