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In the Name of God بسم الله

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2 hours ago, علوي said:

I meant that the post that you tried to publish but it wasn't approved, you can just put it in this thread here, and we can discuss it here (instead of posting it on a different thread). But up to you ofc.

bro ana 3alawi

I don't know many Alawis who actually permit alcohol... I know that (regrettably) there are a few people who drink in our community, but that doesn't mean that our beliefs are wrong. There are many Sunnis and Shi'ites who drink as well, but you don't find anyone doing takfir on all Sunnis or Shi'a because some of them drink.

Same thing with regard to touching the opposite gender... there isn't much gender-mixing in our culture, and that which does exist is not a reflection on the religion, rather it's a reflection on the people. Again, there are many Sunni and Shi'a who gender mix as well.

Salat is wajeb, as Allah says in the Quran:

وَأَقِمِ الصَّلَاةَ طَرَفَيِ النَّهَارِ وَزُلَفًا مِنَ اللَّيْلِ ۚ إِنَّ الْحَسَنَاتِ يُذْهِبْنَ السَّيِّئَاتِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ ذِكْرَىٰ لِلذَّاكِرِينَ
Maintain the prayer at the two ends of the day, and during the early hours of the night. Indeed good deeds efface misdeeds. That is an admonition for the mindful. [11:114]

All Alawites believe that salat is wajib. However, salat as a zahiri aspect and a batini aspect. The zahiri aspect is the rak3at that we physically perform. The batini aspect is the spiritual connection with Allah and the Ahlulbayt (as Imam Ali (عليه السلام) says "I am al-Salat") that we build in the prayer. Unfortunately, some (common people - not scholars) misinterpreted this to mean that salat is not wajib, while it is according to the Alawis. But again, just because some Alawis don't pray, doesn't mean that the Alawi religion is wrong, because many Sunnis and Shi'a don't pray either.

Ok I've genuinely never heard an Alawi say that in my life. Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is the hujjah of God on earth and His wali. He is the manifestation of God's attributes and the most virtuous creation after Sayyedna Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) - but he is not God Himself. He may be godly, as Allah states in the Quran:

وَكَأَيِّنْ مِنْ نَبِيٍّ قَاتَلَ مَعَهُ رِبِّيُّونَ كَثِيرٌ فَمَا وَهَنُوا لِمَا أَصَابَهُمْ فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ وَمَا ضَعُفُوا وَمَا اسْتَكَانُوا ۗ وَاللَّهُ يُحِبُّ الصَّابِرِينَ
How many a prophet there has been with whom a multitude of godly men fought. They did not falter for what befell them in the way of Allah, neither did they weaken, nor did they abase themselves; and Allah loves the steadfast. [3:146]

This verse was revealed after the battle of Uhud, when Imam Ali (عليه السلام) came to Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) with 80 wounds and Allah wanted to praise him for his loyalty to Allah and His Prophet. (Source: Hilliyat al-Abrar)

But anyone who believes that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is God Himself has done ghuluw and we Alawis dissociate from him.

It's... not a hadith? It's just the words of a companion about Sayyedna Muhammad ibn Nusayr. But I want someone hearing the actual words of Muhammad ibn Nusayr in which he commits ghuluw.

If you haven't heard an 3alawe say Imam 3ale (3leyhe assalem) is God then I wonder if ur telling the truth, but then again 3alaweyye are known to hide their beliefs so they are not condemned. 

 

The difference between a Sunni and Shia drinking or touching the opposite gender is that they will never say that the religion allows them to do this while an 3alawe will say it does.

 

And as for salah when you say some interpret references well this is why we have a perfect scholarly system of t2led and u lel assaf don't. You say scholars don't say this but who do all of your people take from and all your sheyo5 are secretive and don't even publish books for this reason.

 

Don't get me started on how only people born 3alawe can be 3alawe which is what  only 1% of muslims which means everyone is 'born to go to hell'.

 

Overall this doesnt seem like some but the general beliefs of 3alaweyyen.

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7 hours ago, Ali_Mehdi_ said:

If you haven't heard an 3alawe say Imam 3ale (3leyhe assalem) is God then I wonder if ur telling the truth, but then again 3alaweyye are known to hide their beliefs so they are not condemned. 

 

The difference between a Sunni and Shia drinking or touching the opposite gender is that they will never say that the religion allows them to do this while an 3alawe will say it does.

 

And as for salah when you say some interpret references well this is why we have a perfect scholarly system of t2led and u lel assaf don't. You say scholars don't say this but who do all of your people take from and all your sheyo5 are secretive and don't even publish books for this reason.

 

Don't get me started on how only people born 3alawe can be 3alawe which is what  only 1% of muslims which means everyone is 'born to go to hell'.

 

Overall this doesnt seem like some but the general beliefs of 3alaweyyen.

because there are some people who say drinking is allowed, does not mean it is an objective truth. because i say BELIEVE i am president of the United States does not mean it is true. or that any scholar or any sheikh accepts it. it's just an excuse for people and their excessive drinking and their alcoholism.

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5 hours ago, Ali_Mehdi_ said:

If you haven't heard an 3alawe say Imam 3ale (3leyhe assalem) is God then I wonder if ur telling the truth, but then again 3alaweyye are known to hide their beliefs so they are not condemned. 

bro 

Have you heard that in real life? I know that there are some pretenders on the internet (e.g. TikTok) who claim to be Alawi but they're actually a Sunni, Christian or Jew running a satire account... but in real life every Alawi I know believes that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is the wali (representative) of God on earth and the human manifestation of God's attributes. 

And again, if anyone who claims to be Alawi does claim that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is God, he has strayed into the path of ghuluw and we are dissociated from his sins.

5 hours ago, Ali_Mehdi_ said:

The difference between a Sunni and Shia drinking or touching the opposite gender is that they will never say that the religion allows them to do this while an 3alawe will say it does.

Doesn't really matter because religion doesn't allow it. I think the Alawis got used to such things because they were oppressed for so long and many lived among Christians for a while, but that's a cultural thing, not a religious thing. 

6 hours ago, Ali_Mehdi_ said:

And as for salah when you say some interpret references well this is why we have a perfect scholarly system of t2led and u lel assaf don't. You say scholars don't say this but who do all of your people take from and all your sheyo5 are secretive and don't even publish books for this reason.

Our people do taqlid from our scholars. They're only secretive about some things, but so was Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).

For example, he wouldn't divulge a secret of the ghayb to all of his companions because some of them would be too ignorant to accept it or they wouldn't understand it and might fall into ghuluw. 

Imam Ali Zayn al-Abideen (عليه السلام) said:

Quote

وَاللَّهِ، لَوْ عَلِمَ أبُوذَرٍ مَا فِي قَلْبِ سَلْمَانَ لَقَتَلَهُ! وَلَقَدْ آخِى رَسُولُ اللَّهِ بَيْنَهُمَا، فَمَا ظَنُّكُمْ بِسَائِرِ الْخَلْقِ؟ إنَّ عِلْمَ الْعُلَمَاءِ صَعْبٌ مُسْتَصْبٌ لاَ يَحْتَمِلُهُ إلأ نَبِيٌ مُرْسَلٌ أوْ مَلَكُ مُقَرَّبٌ أو عَبْدُ مُؤْمِنٌ إمْتَحَنَ اللَّهُ قَلْبَهُ لِلأيمَانِ. وَإنَّمَا صَارَ سَلْمَانُ مِنَ الْعُلَمَاءِ لأنَّهُ امْرُؤٌ مِنَّا أهْلَ الْبَيتِ فَلِذَلِكَ نَسَبْتَهُ إلَى الْمَاءِ.

By Allah (I swear), if Abu-Dharr knew what was in the heart of Salman, he would kill him, though Allah had made a contract of brotherhood between them. How would you then judge about other people? Surely the scholars’ knowledge is hard to understand and burdensome! No one can endure it but a Prophet, an archangel or a believing servant whose heart Allah has tested with faith. Only Salman became a man of knowledge, for he was from us, Ahl al-Bayt. That is why I attributed him to the scholars.

(Source: Al-Kafi)

Imam Ali also said to Abu Zarr:

Quote

إنَّ سَلْمَانَ لَوْ حَدَّتَكَ بِمَا يَعْلَمُ لَقُلْتَ: رَحِمَ اللَّهُ قَاتِلَ سَلْمَانَ!

If Salman informed you of what he knew, you would say: May Allah have mercy on Salman’s killer.

(Source: Bihar al-Anwar)

If Abu Zarr (رضي الله عنه) knew what Salman (رضي الله عنه) knew, he would have killed him according to the Imam (عليه السلام). This is because Salman was privy to secrets (asrar) of the Imams that not everyone else were.

Quote

وقال أبو عبد الله (عليه السلام): الايمان عشر درجات، فالمقداد في الثامنة، وأبو ذر في التاسعة، وسلمان في العاشرة.

Abu Abdillah (عليه السلام) said: "Faith has ten ranks: Miqdad was in the eighth rank, Abu-Dharr in the ninth and Salman in the tenth."

(Source: Bihar al-Anwar)

Salman (رضي الله عنه) reached the tenth level of faith, meaning that he was privy to secrets not available to, for example, Abu Zarr, who was on the ninth level of faith.

Similarly, scholars are on a certain level of faith and common people are on a certain level of faith, and not everything that the scholars know should be divulged to the common people. This is why, for example, some volumes of Bihar al-Anwar are not published in Iran, I believe. 

Imam al-Sadeq (عليه السلام) says:

Quote

كتمان سرنا جهاد في سبيل الله

Keeping our secret is jihad in the way of Allah.

(Source: Mizan al-Hikmah)

6 hours ago, Ali_Mehdi_ said:

Don't get me started on how only people born 3alawe can be 3alawe which is what  only 1% of muslims which means everyone is 'born to go to hell'.

We didn't choose that. That happened as a cultural thing because everyone else oppressed and persecuted us for a thousand years without letting us breathe. Why would we voluntarily stop people from converting to our religion, the religion of Allah? It happened because if we were to do da3wah, we would be killed. 

And any Alawi would know that God doesn't create people "born to go to hell". We're actually quite inclusive in our beliefs. That's why Bashar Al-Assad prays with his hands folded with the Sunnis - because the zahiri shari3a isn't as important as the batin, which is to connect with Allah. This batini aspect is present in every religion - all religious people aim to get closer to God. We believe that Allah is the one who revealed different "shari3aat" (e.g. the shari3a of Sayyedna Musa (عليه السلام), the shari3a of Sayyedna 3eisa (عليه السلام), the shari3a of Sayyedna Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), which is the final, greatest and most complete shari3a.) so all religions have heavenly aspects. It's not a big deal which zahiri shari3a people follow; as long as they're sincere in the worship of God, they'll go to heaven inshallah.

8 hours ago, Ali_Mehdi_ said:

Overall this doesnt seem like some but the general beliefs of 3alaweyyen.

just curious, how many 3alawiyye do you actually know in real life?

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Posted (edited)
On 5/31/2024 at 4:33 AM, علوي said:

Have you heard that in real life?

Yes

 

On 5/31/2024 at 4:33 AM, علوي said:

I think the Alawis got used to such things because they were oppressed for so long and many lived among Christians for a while, but that's a cultural thing, not a religious thing

Well you know what Imam Ali (عليه السلام) did to the alawis that called him God. Sources say (but I havent seen this in person) that u guys believe in a trinity as well so I'm wondering why u lived amongst Christians. Again, no books are published, everything is secretive all because ur hiding these deviant beliefs.

 

On 5/31/2024 at 4:33 AM, علوي said:

Our people do taqlid from our scholars

You have no maraj3a so theres no t2led.

 

On 5/31/2024 at 4:33 AM, علوي said:

سرنا

Having a secret and having false beliefs are 2 different things

 

On 5/31/2024 at 4:33 AM, علوي said:

zahiri shari3a isn't as important as the batin, which is to connect with Allah

Both are important and only in taqiyyeh can u pray with ur hands folded

On 5/31/2024 at 4:33 AM, علوي said:

if we were to do da3wah, we would be killed. 

If ur religion is the same as ours and all the things I mentioned really wernt in it then why 3anjad is this the case ?

 

On 5/31/2024 at 4:33 AM, علوي said:

so all religions have heavenly aspects

On 5/31/2024 at 4:33 AM, علوي said:

It's not a big deal which zahiri shari3a people follow

إِنَّ الدِّينَ عِنْدَ اللَّهِ الْإِسْلَامُ

وَمَن يَبْتَغِ غَيْرَ ٱلْإِسْلَـٰمِ دِينًۭا فَلَن يُقْبَلَ مِنْهُ 

The other rse2el and share3at are all corrupted and cannot be followed and ours came for that reason and is the final and greatest one. If all are correct then there wouldnt be different opinions from God all contradicting each other.

 

On 5/31/2024 at 4:33 AM, علوي said:

how many 3alawiyye do you actually know in real life?

From all the alawiis that I've known that's what they've said and I dont know many cause they aren't in my area

Edited by Hameedeh
typo
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On 5/31/2024 at 12:58 AM, علوي said:

Wa3laykom assalam

Brother that's not a hadith. I want an actual hadith in which Sayyedna Muhammad ibn Nusayr (رضي الله عنه) says something wrong. I don't want the words of a companion.

Salam , lol you have used word of a historian to call Nusayr as Bab & teacher while you reject a hadith which all hadiths have been recorded by companions of Imams which infallible Imam has done something or said something so then a companion has recorded it for future  :book::einstein: 

Quote

Bro you just changed the words! The words are:

Sayyed al-Mar'ashi says that Muhammad ibn Nusayr is the bab of Imam Hasan al-Askari (عليه السلام). It's clear. You looked at the wrong part of the hadith.

You also missed the point. Even if Sayyed al-Mar'ashi didn't refer to Muhammad ibn Nusayr as the bab, he referred to him as the mu3allim - the teacher - meaning that he is not ghali, rather he is a righteous and respectable companion. This is in the opinion of a Shi'ite scholar.

I have not changed but on the other hand I have mentioned it with full detail which has been censored by you which Nusayr only has been called by Nusayri Ghulat as Bab & mu3allim-teacher .:einstein::book: which you have tried to fool people that it's word of Imam .

 

 

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On 6/1/2024 at 12:06 AM, Ali_Mehdi_ said:

Yes

They're not Alawites then.

On 6/1/2024 at 12:06 AM, Ali_Mehdi_ said:

Well you know what Imam Ali (عليه السلام) did to the alawis that called him God.

Alawis would never call him God, because the word Alawi itself means they're on the path of Ali, which is monotheism.

On 6/1/2024 at 12:06 AM, Ali_Mehdi_ said:

Sources say (but I havent seen this in person) that u guys believe in a trinity as well so I'm wondering why u lived amongst Christians.

That's false. I think the idea of the trinity came from the concept of babiyah, because there's Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), Amir al-Mumineen (عليه السلام), and Salman al-Farisi (رضي الله عنه). It's nothing like a trinity, because the three of them aren't God, but all three of these individuals are guides whom we should look up to.

On 6/1/2024 at 12:06 AM, Ali_Mehdi_ said:

Again, no books are published, everything is secretive all because ur hiding these deviant beliefs.

Everything is secretive because we don't want to be killed. 

On 6/1/2024 at 12:06 AM, Ali_Mehdi_ said:

You have no maraj3a so theres no t2led.

There's no taqlid in the sense that we blindly follow our scholars and accept their words as absolute gospel truth, but we still look up to our scholars for guidance and Islamic laws.

On 6/1/2024 at 12:06 AM, Ali_Mehdi_ said:

Having a secret and having false beliefs are 2 different things

We don't have any false beliefs.

On 6/1/2024 at 12:06 AM, Ali_Mehdi_ said:

Both are important

correct.

On 6/1/2024 at 12:06 AM, Ali_Mehdi_ said:

and only in taqiyyeh can u pray with ur hands folded

That's true, but it doesn't mean Allah won't accept your prayer if you fold your hands. You're the one who accused us of being exclusive and believing that everyone but else will go to hell, but now you're the one making a big deal about whether or not our hands are folded or if they're nice and straight our sides.

On 6/1/2024 at 12:06 AM, Ali_Mehdi_ said:

If ur religion is the same as ours and all the things I mentioned really wernt in it then why 3anjad is this the case ?

Like I said before, if Abu Zarr knew what was in the heart of Salman, he would have killed him because he would think his beliefs to be false. This means that what the Prophet and the Imam told Salman would have been different to what they told Abu Zarr, because they were at different degrees of faith and could tolerate different levels of truth. 

It's the case because of the propaganda spread by others towards us. The mainstream shi'a are also accused of worshipping Imam Ali, worshipping shrines, etc, and some people are ready to kill them because of it. We are accused of the same things to an even greater extent, and those same people would be even happier to kill us. Ibn Taymiyyah even ruled that the Alawites are greater infidels that the Christians, Jews, and pagans, and declared our blood and wealth halal. 

But just like how the things the shi'a are accused of have no truth to them, it's the same with the Alawites. Because of our loyalty to Sayyedna Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and the imams (عليهم السلام), we were accused of ghuluw. Because of our respect for Muhammad ibn Nusayr (رضي الله عنه), we were accused of making him a prophet. Because of our acknowledgement of the esoteric, we were accused of being a batini and secretive sect. Because we were oppressed and not allowed to publicly practice our faith, we were accused of not having or believing in mosques. 

None of it is true.

On 6/1/2024 at 12:06 AM, Ali_Mehdi_ said:

إِنَّ الدِّينَ عِنْدَ اللَّهِ الْإِسْلَامُ

وَمَن يَبْتَغِ غَيْرَ ٱلْإِسْلَـٰمِ دِينًۭا فَلَن يُقْبَلَ مِنْهُ 

The other rse2el and share3at are all corrupted and cannot be followed and ours came for that reason and is the final and greatest one. If all are correct then there wouldnt be different opinions from God all contradicting each other.

I didn't say they were all correct. Most of them were probably correct at some point, but with time, they were corrupted. What I did say was that they all have heavenly aspects in them, meaning there are still parts of them which are correct. 

If someone knows the truth of Islam and chooses to follow another (corrupted) religion, then of course, لَن يُقْبَلَ مِنْهُ. But if someone is sincere in their good deeds and genuinely believes in their religion, how can Allah punish them for following that which they believe true?

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَالَّذِينَ هَادُوا وَالنَّصَارَىٰ وَالصَّابِئِينَ مَنْ آمَنَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ وَعَمِلَ صَالِحًا فَلَهُمْ أَجْرُهُمْ عِنْدَ رَبِّهِمْ وَلَا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ
Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve. [2:62]

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WAllah I feel so sorry for u cause u seem confused

Bas here is a lecture of someone that confirmed all my beliefs and even from Alawis himself metle

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9ni7298oEcw&pp=ygUaWmFpZCBhbHNhbGFtaSBhbGF3aSBnaHVsYXQ%3D

And don't forget to bring ur references. This she5 challenged everyone that says I don't believe in that to show one proof in their books that it's not true and no one was able to do that.

Wassalam.

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On 6/1/2024 at 6:06 AM, Ali_Mehdi_ said:

Well you know what Imam Ali (عليه السلام) did to the alawis that called him God. Sources say (but I havent seen this in person) that u guys believe in a trinity as well so I'm wondering why u lived amongst Christians. Again, no books are published, everything is secretive all because ur hiding these deviant beliefs.

Is it true that there are no books published by Alawi scholars? I'd be interested to read about their beliefs directly from them if possible rather than from non-Alawis.

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1 hour ago, Guest111 said:

Is it true that there are no books published by Alawi scholars? I'd be interested to read about their beliefs directly from them if possible rather than from non-Alawis.

from my knowledge there are no books published by Alawi scholars. or ex-alawi's or historical books. there have been but they have been burned by the enemies of the ahl-al bayt. 

besides alot of historical books (even by those who claim are alawites) are all lies and or biased.

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11 hours ago, Ali_Mehdi_ said:

here is a lecture of someone that confirmed all my beliefs and even from Alawis himself metle

This is not an Alawi, he's a shi3i. I've watched the lecture before and he's just spreading the propaganda created about us with no basis whatsoever.

11 hours ago, Ali_Mehdi_ said:

And don't forget to bring ur references. This she5 challenged everyone that says I don't believe in that to show one proof in their books that it's not true and no one was able to do that.

lol no. It's not me who has to bring the proof that I believe what I believe. It's you and this "sheikh" who has to bring the proof that I believe what I don't believe.

ya3ni if I say I believe something and you think I don't believe it, the burden of proof is on you, not me. 

bas if i have time i'll watch the lecture and respond to his points one by one (with references), idk when that will be

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Guest111 said:

Is it true that there are no books published by Alawi scholars? I'd be interested to read about their beliefs directly from them if possible rather than from non-Alawis.

There is a book called Kitab Majmu which no one even knows who the real author is but some say it was by an Alawi scholar who turned Christian called Sulayman Al Adani, which is no surprise because of the trinity in both religions. The lecture above also briefly speaks a bit about it. Ive never spoken to an 3alawe about that book but the well known French academic of that time who translated it into French confirmed from 3alawes themselves that it has their beliefs in it.

Edited by Ali_Mehdi_
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10 hours ago, Guest111 said:

Is it true that there are no books published by Alawi scholars?

no.

10 hours ago, Guest111 said:

I'd be interested to read about their beliefs directly from them if possible rather than from non-Alawis.

No problem:

Al-Muslimoon al-Alawiyoon Shi'at Ahl al-Bayt: https://www.noor-book.com/tag/المسلمون-العلويون-شيعة-أهل-البيت-بيان-عقيدة-العلويين

Inshallah I'll post more when/if I find them, but I think this is the most well-known book with a compilation of all the beliefs of the Alawis. Our main book is the Book of Allah, after that, Al-Hidayat al-Kubra.

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2 hours ago, Ali_Mehdi_ said:

Btw @علوي how does it feel that u believe in reincarnation like hindus

We don't, we believe that Allah punished some people by turning them into animals etc, which is validated by the Quran and Imams.

وَلَقَدْ عَلِمْتُمُ الَّذِينَ اعْتَدَوْا مِنْكُمْ فِي السَّبْتِ فَقُلْنَا لَهُمْ كُونُوا قِرَدَةً خَاسِئِينَ
And certainly you know those of you who violated the Sabbath, whereupon We said to them, ‘Be you spurned apes.’ [2:65]

قُلْ هَلْ أُنَبِّئُكُمْ بِشَرٍّ مِنْ ذَٰلِكَ مَثُوبَةً عِنْدَ اللَّهِ ۚ مَنْ لَعَنَهُ اللَّهُ وَغَضِبَ عَلَيْهِ وَجَعَلَ مِنْهُمُ الْقِرَدَةَ وَالْخَنَازِيرَ وَعَبَدَ الطَّاغُوتَ ۚ أُولَٰئِكَ شَرٌّ مَكَانًا وَأَضَلُّ عَنْ سَوَاءِ السَّبِيلِ
Say, ‘Shall I inform you concerning something worse than that as a requital from Allah? Those whom Allah has cursed and with whom He is wrathful, and turned some of whom into apes and swine, and worshippers of fake deities! Such are in a worse situation and more astray from the right way.’ [5:60]

قُلْ كُونُوا حِجَارَةً أَوْ حَدِيدًا
Say, ‘Be  stones, or iron [17:50]

1 minute ago, Ali_Mehdi_ said:

Ana ma 2eltelek howe ken 3alawe

ok why should i (or anyone else) care what he says then?

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On 6/2/2024 at 8:03 PM, Ali_Mehdi_ said:

I just watched the video, and I will respond to the sheikh's points one by one. Before I do, I just want to mention that I'm no scholar, so some of my points may be lacking or even incorrect. Anyone interested in Alawites should talk to an Alawi sheikh.

1. Batiniyya

3:16. The first accusation that the sheikh made against us was that we are Batiniyya, meaning two things: firstly, that we have an esoteric approach to religion, and secondly, that we are a secretive sect.

As for the first, it is partially true, as we do value the batin (hidden reality) as well as the zahir (apparent reality). The sheikh mentioned that the holy verse: وَالتِّينِ وَالزَّيْتُونِ (By the fig and the olive) [95:1] refers to Imam al-Hasan (عليه السلام) and Imam al-Husayn (عليه السلام), which is true according to the hadith of the imams:

Quote

مناقب ابن شهرآشوب: في معالي أمورهما (عليهما السلام): مقاتل بن مقاتل، عن مرازم، عن موسى بن جعفر (عليهما السلام) في قوله تعالى (والتين والزيتون) قال: الحسن: والحسين

Manaqib ibn Shahrashoub: Concerning their (عليهما السلام) affairs: Maqatil ibn Maqatil, from Marazim, from Musa ibn Jafar (عليهما السلام) concerning His words: "By the fig and the olive", he said: "Hasan and Husayn."

http://shiaonlinelibrary.com/الكتب/1474_بحار-الأنوار-العلامة-المجلسي-ج-٤٣/الصفحة_293

So us being batiniyya (in the sense that we value the batin) is not an issue.

As for the second accusation, (that we are a secretive group), it is again partially true. We were forced to conceal our beliefs because of oppression (i.e. we performed taqiyyah), but that doesn't mean we don't allow anyone to learn about our faith. We do teach others about our faith, which is why our scholars such as Sayyedna Hussein ibn Hamdan al-Khasibi wrote books. If we were so secretive, why do our scholars write books? However, our scholars do not divulge all aspects of it because, like I mentioned earlier, not everyone has strong enough faith to hear certain truths from the Imams (عليهم السلام). 

--

2. Our History

8:15. The sheikh makes ludicrous claims about our history and our origins. He says that we originated from the time of Muhammad ibn Nusayr, not the time of Imam Ali (عليه السلام), which is false. (The only reason he gets to claim that is because his sect is the majority, but if Alawites were the majority we would claim the same thing about mainstream Shi'ites). The Alawites were the Shi'ites of Ali from the time of the Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and Imam Ali (عليه السلام) himself, and it was the Prophet himself who gave us the name "Alawi" in this hadith:

Quote

وتجئ شيعته من بعده فينادي مناد لشيعة من أنتم؟ فيقولون نحن العلويون فيأتيهم النداء يا أيها العلويون أنتم آمنون، ادخلوا الجنة مع من كنتم توالون

And the shia (of Ali) will come and a caller will call out, "Who are you?"

So they will say: "We are the Alawites."

Then the call will encompass them, "O Alawites, you are safe. Enter Paradise with those whom you loved."

http://shiaonlinelibrary.com/الكتب/1496_بحار-الأنوار-العلامة-المجلسي-ج-٦٥/الصفحة_114

Imam al-Sadiq (عليه السلام) said:

Quote

المؤمن علوي لأنه علا في المعرفة

The believer is Alawi because he is exalted in knowledge.

http://shiaonlinelibrary.com/الكتب/1141_علل-الشرائع-الشيخ-الصدوق-ج-٢/الصفحة_157

The Alawites were the true shi'a that the Prophet and imams spoke about. They were the elite and loyal companions of the imams to whom they divulged their secrets.

Rather, it's the mainstream Shi'a who splintered off from the path and refused to follow Sayyedna Muhammad ibn Nusayr (رضي الله عنه). The imams appointed a bab for the people, but the majority refused to follow him, just how the majority refused to follow Imam Ali after the death of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).

10:49. The sheikh also claims that Muhammad ibn Nusayr proclaimed himself a prophet, which is a ridiculous thing to say, because there is not one Alawi in the world who believes that Muhammad ibn Nusayr is a prophet or imam, (or anything other than a bab). Our basis for this belief is the holy verse: مَا كَانَ مُحَمَّدٌ أَبَا أَحَدٍ مِنْ رِجَالِكُمْ وَلَٰكِنْ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ وَخَاتَمَ النَّبِيِّينَ (Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the Apostle of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets) [33:40] 

16:25. (The sheikh mentioned briefly later on in the video that some scholars believe that the Alawis who exist today are not the same Alawis who were the students of Muhammad ibn Nusayr, but there is no proof for this claim, which I think is why the sheikh gave no significance to it).

--

3. Our Beliefs.

12:02. The sheikh, like so many others, claimed that we believe Imam Ali (عليه السلام) to be God. This is an utter lie. We believe that there is no god but Allah, who is one and without partner, and that Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is His servant and messenger, and that Ali (عليه السلام) is the wali of Allah and the brother of His messenger. I don't even know where to start with the proof that we don't believe Ali to be God. It's in the Quran as well as every book of hadith on the planet. No one can find one piece of evidence from our books that we believe Imam Ali (عليه السلام) to be Allah. 

13:00. He also interestingly claimed that we don't believe in the Quran. Of course we do believe in the Quran, as Muslims, and Sayyedna al-Khasibi writes in his book Al-Hidayat al-Kubra:

Quote

وكان اسمه في القرآن محمد

And his name in the Quran was Muhammad

http://shiaonlinelibrary.com/الكتب/1276_الهداية-الكبرى-الحسين-بن-حمدان-الخصيبي/الصفحة_32#top

Why would Sayyedna al-Khasibi mention the Quran if we don't believe in it?

13:06. The sheikh in the video makes the further claim that we believe in a trinity consisting of Imam Ali (عليه السلام), Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and Salman al-Farisi (رضي الله عنه). This, yet again, is not true, and I challenge anyone to find anything in our books where it confirms this trinity. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, we do love and respect these three, because Prophet Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, Imam Ali is the successor of Prophet Muhammad, and Salman al-Farisi is the bab of Imam Ali.

Imam Ali (عليه السلام) says:

Quote

إن سلمان باب الله في الأرض، من عرفه كان مؤمنا، ومن أنكره كان كافرا، وإن سلمان منا أهل البيت

Indeed, Salman is the door (bab) of Allah on earth. Whoever knows him is a believer and whoever hates him is a disbeliever. Salman is from us, the people of the house (ahl-ul-bayt). 

http://www.shiaonlinelibrary.com/الكتب/1453_بحار-الأنوار-العلامة-المجلسي-ج-٢٢/الصفحة_376#

17:51. Later on in the video, the sheikh claimed that our "main emphasis" is reincarnation. I don't know where he got "main emphasis" from, as our main emphasis is tawheed (monotheism). But regarding reincarnation, I already mentioned in another post that Allah did punish some people for their deeds by making them animals, and this is confirmed in the holy Quran. There is also a plethora of ahadith in which the Imams (عليهم السلام) list some different animals and explain what actions people do to be punished by being made into that particular species. There are so many it would make this post way too long and it probably deserves a thread of its own anyway.

18:31. He also said that we believe that Wilayah is greater than Nubuwwah, which is true. But this doesn't mean that, for example, Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is greater than Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), because Prophet Muhammad also has wilayah. 

20:46. Later again in the video, he said that there's a problem with us and ma3ad (i.e. the Day of Judgement). Of course, we do believe in the Day of Judgement, as the Quran says, and as our books of ahadith confirm. 

--

4. Taqiyyah

13:53. He also said that we take taqiyyah to an extreme and unnecessary level, again a false statement. We use taqiyyah because we don't want to die, and I don't know what's so hard to understand about that. For example, many Alawites have become used to Sunni traditions because of how they oppressed us for centuries and centuries. Of course, if an Alawi is living in a safe and secure region, he has no reason for taqiyyah in his private life, but when speaking in public, he must still be wary, lest some radical Syrian revolutionary or someone uses it as justification for genocide. 

But when Alawis are talking to other shi'a, 99 times out of 100 you can be sure that they're not using taqiyyah and they're just being upfront, like me now. (The other 1 time is because they're not sure, not because they just want to lie for no reason).

--

5. Our Practices

17:37. The sheikh claimed we fast and pray differently. As for fasting, I'm pretty sure it's exactly the same as the mainstream shi'a fasting. As for prayer, there are a few minor differences (e.g. our tashahhud and qunout are both longer), although I think that's a recommended thing, not obligatory. For example, our tashahhud reads: 

اشهد ان لا اله الا الله وحده لا شريك له واشهد ان محمدا عبده ورسوله. اللهم صل على محمد وال محمد وارفع درجته وقرب وسيلته وقبل شفاعته في أمته

19:33. He also said later in the video that we don't have anything like a masjid. We do actually have masajid. There are two in Melbourne, which we call a markaz (centre). Again, proof for this is the Quran (e.g. وَأَنَّ الْمَسَاجِدَ لِلَّهِ (The places of worship belong to Allah) [72:18]) and our books of ahadith. 

Admittedly, some Alawis do not place as much emphasis on the masjid as other Muslims, but this is again due to the persecution and the fact that our enemies destroyed our masajid and villages. In safer places like the West, we are able to build our mosques again.

20:26. Later on, he said that we drink alcohol, which I already explained in another post. Many Sunnis and Shi'ites also drink alcohol, and just because some Alawites drink, it doesn't mean all Alawites drink, and it doesn't mean that we believe it to be halal. Our basis for this is the verse: يَسْأَلُونَكَ عَنِ الْخَمْرِ وَالْمَيْسِرِ ۖ قُلْ فِيهِمَا إِثْمٌ كَبِيرٌ وَمَنَافِعُ لِلنَّاسِ وَإِثْمُهُمَا أَكْبَرُ مِنْ نَفْعِهِمَا ۗ (They ask you concerning wine and gambling. Say, ‘There is a great sin in both of them, and some profits for the people, but their sinfulness outweighs their profit.’) [2:219].

22:42. Even later, he said that we are very strict with regard to allowing women to learn the faith. I don't know where that came from, but it couldn't be further from the truth. There are many programs, for example, at the markaz (community centre) in Melbourne for teaching girls how to pray, having seminars for women, holding events and functions for them, etc. The Quran says: إِنَّ الْمُسْلِمِينَ وَالْمُسْلِمَاتِ وَالْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَالْمُؤْمِنَاتِ وَالْقَانِتِينَ وَالْقَانِتَاتِ وَالصَّادِقِينَ وَالصَّادِقَاتِ وَالصَّابِرِينَ وَالصَّابِرَاتِ وَالْخَاشِعِينَ وَالْخَاشِعَاتِ وَالْمُتَصَدِّقِينَ وَالْمُتَصَدِّقَاتِ وَالصَّائِمِينَ وَالصَّائِمَاتِ وَالْحَافِظِينَ فُرُوجَهُمْ وَالْحَافِظَاتِ وَالذَّاكِرِينَ اللَّهَ كَثِيرًا وَالذَّاكِرَاتِ أَعَدَّ اللَّهُ لَهُمْ مَغْفِرَةً وَأَجْرًا عَظِيمًا (Indeed the muslim men and the muslim women, the faithful men and the faithful women, the obedient men and the obedient women, the truthful men and the truthful women, the patient men and the patient women, the humble men and the humble women, the charitable men and the charitable women, the men who fast and the women who fast, the men who guard their private parts and the women who guard, the men who remember Allah greatly and the women who remember [Allah greatly]—Allah holds in store for them forgiveness and a great reward.) [33:35]

23:06 The sheikh also said that people don't learn the Alawi faith unless they want to become a sheikh, which again, is false. Everyone who wants to do so can learn. There's a great emphasis in Alawite books about seeking knowledge, such as in Kitab al-Ma'idah, in which Sayyedna al-Khasibi dedicates multiple chapters to 3ilm (knowledge).

--

6. Our Books

21:40. He mentioned Kitab al-Majmu3, which again, I've never heard of it except from our enemies, and I don't even know who Sulayman al-Adani is. 

Our main book is the Quran. After that, we believe in Nahjol Balagha, Al-Hidayat al-Kubra, and many others, but I'm not very well-versed in our hadith books. Usually I just rely on mainstream shi'a hadith books, because that's what's available online. 

--

To me, it seems like this sheikh just read some propaganda about Alawites and turned it into somewhat of a sermon. Credit where credit is due: he did at least mention that we deny the baseless accusations. But he still repeated them and is spreading them to others, who probably just take his word for it. 

I did my best to explain things, but again, I'm no scholar and am not qualified to go into depth about religion, and I do not represent all Alawites. If anyone is interested in the Alawi faith, they should talk to a qualified sheikh. والله اعلم.

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9 hours ago, علوي said:

Rather, it's the mainstream Shi'a who splintered off from the path and refused to follow Sayyedna Muhammad ibn Nusayr (رضي الله عنه). The imams appointed a bab for the people, but the majority refused to follow him, just how the majority refused to follow Imam Ali after the death of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).

10:49. The sheikh also claims that Muhammad ibn Nusayr proclaimed himself a prophet, which is a ridiculous thing to say, because there is not one Alawi in the world who believes that Muhammad ibn Nusayr is a prophet or imam, (or anything other than a bab). Our basis for this belief is the holy verse: مَا كَانَ مُحَمَّدٌ أَبَا أَحَدٍ مِنْ رِجَالِكُمْ وَلَٰكِنْ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ وَخَاتَمَ النَّبِيِّينَ (Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the Apostle of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets) [33:40]

Salam Muhammad ibn Nusayr has not been from Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) which certainly he is not comparable with Amir Al-Muminin Imam Ali (عليه السلام) ; which his false status as Baba or teacher has been refuted countless times although your biased mindset in his favor which he undoublty has deviated from  right  pass so then has called him a prophet after prophet Muhammad (pbu) which only Nusayri Ghulat have followed him  ; all shias including Twelvers don't follow anyone as Bab  which Bab is only deputy of Imam Zaman (aj) nothing more than his deputy so therefore not  following M. Nusayr , the false Bab doesn't mean deviation fom right pass .

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4 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam

Walaikom assalam.

4 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Muhammad ibn Nusayr has not been from Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) which certainly he is not comparable with Amir Al-Muminin Imam Ali (عليه السلام)

Where did I say any of that?

4 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

which his false status as Baba or teacher has been refuted countless times although your biased mindset in his favor which he undoublty has deviated from  right  pass

It hasn't been refuted once. You rely on weak arguments based on random accounts of people who didn't even live with the imams or in the time of Muhammad ibn Nusayr, yet still want to slander him and his followers.

4 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

so then has called him a prophet after prophet Muhammad (pbu) which only Nusayri Ghulat have followed him

I'll repeat myself: not one Nusayri in the world believes in a prophet after Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). Not one Nusayri in the world believes that Muhammad ibn Nusayr is anything more than a babYou can keep parroting baseless and shameless lies about us, but it won't affect us in the slightest, because we know what we believe more than you know what we believe. 

4 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

all shias including Twelvers don't follow anyone as Bab  which Bab is only deputy of Imam Zaman (aj) nothing more than his deputy so therefore not  following M. Nusayr , the false Bab doesn't mean deviation fom right pass .

You're correct; not following the bab doesn't make you a kafir or anything, and I never said it did. But it does mean that you're not obeying the command of the imams (عليهم السلام). 

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21 hours ago, علوي said:

Where did I say any of that?

Salam

Quote

Rather, it's the mainstream Shi'a who splintered off from the path and refused to follow Sayyedna Muhammad ibn Nusayr (رضي الله عنه). The imams appointed a bab for the people, but the majority refused to follow him, just how the majority refused to follow Imam Ali after the death of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).

 

21 hours ago, علوي said:

I'll repeat myself: not one Nusayri in the world believes in a prophet after Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). Not one Nusayri in the world believes that Muhammad ibn Nusayr is anything more than a babYou can keep parroting baseless and shameless lies about us, but it won't affect us in the slightest, because we know what we believe more than you know what we believe. 

This is original Nusayri belief that he has been a new prophet after prophet Muhammad (pbu) in similar fashion of cursed people likewise cursed Shalmaqani & cursed Ibn Khattab which m.Nusayr has been as same as them which recently people likewise you have called him a Bab or something else to justify his deviations & his innovations .

21 hours ago, علوي said:

You're correct; not following the bab doesn't make you a kafir or anything, and I never said it did. But it does mean that you're not obeying the command of the imams (عليهم السلام). 

Ironically at first you have said that Twelver Shias  splintered off from the path due to not following M.Nusayr which according to you his place has been as same as place of Amir al-Muminin Imam Ali (عليه السلام) while until now you have not provided any reliable or rational argument for your nonsense which you have just played with word of Alawi just to prove your nonsense by making Salad of words.  :blabla::book::einstein:

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On 6/6/2024 at 4:48 PM, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam

Walaikom assalam

On 6/6/2024 at 4:48 PM, Ashvazdanghe said:
Quote

Rather, it's the mainstream Shi'a who splintered off from the path and refused to follow Sayyedna Muhammad ibn Nusayr (رضي الله عنه). The imams appointed a bab for the people, but the majority refused to follow him, just how the majority refused to follow Imam Ali after the death of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).

That's not comparing Muhammad ibn Nusayr to Imam Ali (عليه السلام). You're desperately grasping anything slightly debatable instead of focusing on the main point. Forget I ever said that if it makes you happy.

On 6/6/2024 at 4:48 PM, Ashvazdanghe said:

This is original Nusayri belief that he has been a new prophet after prophet Muhammad (pbu)

Ok why is there not one single Nusayri in the world who believes that?

On 6/6/2024 at 4:48 PM, Ashvazdanghe said:

Ironically at first you have said that Twelver Shias  splintered off from the path due to not following M.Nusayr

that doesn't make you kafir and I never said it does

On 6/6/2024 at 4:48 PM, Ashvazdanghe said:

which according to you his place has been as same as place of Amir al-Muminin Imam Ali (عليه السلام)

i never said that, you just found a way to interpret it like that

On 6/6/2024 at 4:48 PM, Ashvazdanghe said:

while until now you have not provided any reliable or rational argument for your nonsense which you have just played with word of Alawi just to prove your nonsense by making Salad of words.  :blabla::book::einstein:

صُمٌّ بُكْمٌ عُمْيٌ فَهُمْ لَا يَعْقِلُونَ
Deaf, dumb, and blind, they do not exercise their reason.

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