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In the Name of God بسم الله

Mukhtar thaqafi

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3 hours ago, 123xo said:

Diaz akhiii don't listen to them, listen to me go watch the musalsal that i linked or read about him from shia sources. Most importantly don't listen to that @Panzerwaffe dude that claims that shia arabs are aganist almokhtar he's clueless probs never stepped a foot in the middle east too and his assumptions are only based on his limited interactions online.

Goodluck

xo

Give me names of Shia Arab leaders who supported imam Ali and also fought to the death with Mukhtar 

then we can talk 

I’m very happy in US , no reason to go there 

I’m basing my opinion on scholars who have done all the research you possibly can 

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Just now, 123xo said:

Yeah i have, i think i bumped into you too there was a man licking the turbah and trying to stick it to his forehead, was that you ? 

I didn't see you because I don't look at non mahrams. There was an annoying squeaky chipmunk voice that I did hear though asking me for hadiya...was that you..did you enjoy that half eaten falafel I gave 

Barakah is barakah alhamdulillah 

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On 4/11/2024 at 10:36 AM, Borntowitnesstruth said:

What do you mean by precarious reputation? If you mean not a good reputation then one can also not ignore propagandists movement against him during his life time.

True 

I think it is very difficult to find a completely unbiased or even relatively objective source on Mukhtar 

but that does not mean we take extreme views on him 

honestly the way most 12er defend mukhtar blindly is similar to the way Sunnis defend some Sahaba. 

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2 minutes ago, Panzerwaffe said:

Give me names of Shia Arab leaders who supported imam Ali and also fought to the death with Mukhtar 

then we can talk 

I’m very happy in US , no reason to go there 

I’m basing my opinion on scholars who have done all the research you possibly can 

Good for you, keep your opinions in the US. I don't see philanthropist sitting at home and making assumptions about people, culture etc but instead they go spend a huge amount of time and see things themselves first hand? You think they can't read someone else's research ?? 

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5 minutes ago, 123xo said:

Good for you, keep your opinions in the US. I don't see philanthropist sitting at home and making assumptions about people, culture etc but instead they go spend a huge amount of time and see things themselves first hand? You think they can't read someone else's research ?? 

 

Give me names of Shia Arab leaders who had supported imam Ali and also fought to the death with Mukhtar 

then we can talk 

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5 minutes ago, SO SOLID SHIA said:

I didn't see you because I don't look at non mahrams. There was an annoying squeaky chipmunk voice that I did hear though asking me for hadiya...was that you..did you enjoy that half eaten falafel I gave 

Barakah is barakah alhamdulillah 

Hell nahhh the only reason why you didn't see me cause you only have one eye in the middle of your forehead 

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1 minute ago, Panzerwaffe said:

Give me names of Shia Arab leaders who had supported imam Ali and also fought to the death with Mukhtar 

then we can talk 

Come on @123xo don't let us down !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I like Mokhtar too you gotta back it . You're on the ropes dripping with sweat like you just took a dive in the Billabong come on mate !!!! Don't be such a dag fair dinkum put some timmen bagilleh on the Barbie 

 

1 minute ago, 123xo said:

Hell nahhh the only reason why you didn't see me cause you only have one eye in the middle of your forehead

Yes my third eye was wide open to the spiritual realities and I've attained such a level Alhamdulillah that any demonic entities are hidden well away from me.

 

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2 minutes ago, SO SOLID SHIA said:

Come on @123xo don't let us down !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I like Mokhtar too you gotta back it . You're on the ropes dripping with sweat like you just took a dive in the Billabong come on mate !!!! Don't be such a dag fair dinkum put some timmen bagilleh on the Barbie 

Hey he fully on put me on the spot i don't any any shia leaders that did what he's asking but my dad is a sayyid and is a shia man can i use him for a reference ??? Or shall i opt out to chatgpt ???!? Quick plz help a sis out the h8rs are waiting 

 

5 minutes ago, SO SOLID SHIA said:

Yes my third eye was wide open to the spiritual realities and I've attained such a level Alhamdulillah that any demonic entities are hidden well away from me.

 

Yeah thanks for confirming awar al dajjal also claims he's jesus on a spiritual cleansing journey, its a match

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It is also quite remarkable that so many of Ali’s disciples lived to participate in the anti Umayyad ( but not Imami Shia ) uprising of ibn Ashath long after Mukhtar was dead.

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2 hours ago, Panzerwaffe said:

Give me names of Shia Arab leaders who had supported imam Ali and also fought to the death with Mukhtar 

then we can talk 

Pending...

check in back later plz we are doing some maintenance RN 

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3 minutes ago, 123xo said:

Hey he fully on put me on the spot i don't any any shia leaders that did what he's asking but my dad is a sayyid and is a shia man can i use him for a reference ??? Or shall i opt out to chatgpt ???!? Quick plz help a sis out the h8rs are waiting 

Yes go ask 3ammu quickly because I'm suffering from second hand embarrassment right now. 

I'm afraid if you are unsuccessful, there is only ONE man that we can summon who will defend the reputation of our Hero. I don't like to disturb him as I know he does 96 hour shifts here on shiachat and presently has gone into his 2 day hiatus, but he holds a PhD in Google search. I'm sure you know who I'm talking about. My mum told me not to say his name loud because the ethereal beings in other dimensions become disturbed by his magnificence

7 minutes ago, 123xo said:

Yeah thanks for confirming awar al dajjal also claims he's jesus on a spiritual cleansing journey, its a match

Jesus is not on a spiritual cleansing journey as he has already attained the highest level...... Dajjal claims to be the messiah...I've also read that majority of his helpers are kufans shock horror! 

Listen you know what I love about Iraq is all the generosity they show to visitors MashAllah ......you should set up your own stall and offer eyebrow threading to the zawar

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2 hours ago, SO SOLID SHIA said:

Yes go ask 3ammu quickly because I'm suffering from second hand embarrassment right now. 

I'm afraid if you are unsuccessful, there is only ONE man that we can summon who will defend the reputation of our Hero. I don't like to disturb him as I know he does 96 hour shifts here on shiachat and presently has gone into his 2 day hiatus, but he holds a PhD in Google search. I'm sure you know who I'm talking about. My mum told me not to say his name loud because the ethereal beings in other dimensions become disturbed by his magnificence

Jesus is not on a spiritual cleansing journey as he has already attained the highest level...... Dajjal claims to be the messiah...I've also read that majority of his helpers are kufans shock horror! 

Listen you know what I love about Iraq is all the generosity they show to visitors MashAllah ......you should set up your own stall and offer eyebrow threading to the zawar

I can't it's 3am man's on DND right now :(  it's ok pretend you didn't see his post i will too, keep calm 

leave him out of this kthanks i think he'd be an admin sometime soon and the first person to Ban would be you LOL 

2 hours ago, SO SOLID SHIA said:

Listen you know what I love about Iraq is all the generosity they show to visitors MashAllah ......you should set up your own stall and offer eyebrow threading to the zawar

Awwh sucha good idea i do have good background in beauty therapy !!! Also you'd be my fave client as you only have one eyebrow to work on xoxox 

Also i do know about Jesus !!! Geez i thought you were on my side why you embarrassing me like that

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2 hours ago, 123xo said:

leave him out of this kthanks i think he'd be an admin sometime soon and the first person to Ban would be you LOL 

 I've said this before. This guy wants my neck. InshaAllah for the sake of everyone else's sanity I hope he doesn't become admin because there would be nobody left on this site. I do feel he would campaign to get me publicly executed though, you think I'm joking ? I do feel he is resourceful however and thanks to his efforts I have come to new information, so I do give credit where it is due.

2 hours ago, 123xo said:

Awwh sucha good idea i do have good background in beauty therapy !!! Also you'd be my fave client as you only have one eyebrow to work on xoxox 

That's great ! Looking forward to it...I want that slightly S shape for Shia ....do you also provide lip fillers because I'm planning on going to a fancy dress belated Eid party this Friday inshallah?. Let me know the schedule 

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From what I understand is that Mokhtar allegedly pulled some cunning manoeuvres to achieve some kind of authority and get a cosign from the Imam of the time. I watched the series and he also went to one of Imam Ali's other sons Muhammad Hanafiya ? The leg dude lol in the series he kept moaning about his leg I thought they depicted him to be a bit weak......Lord knows . Anyways the POINT is okay he may have done what he felt was necessary and in the process allegedly been called a liar, some say it was during Taqiyyah times whatever but so what ? If our brothers can make excuses for crimes way worse that were committed against the ahlul Bayt and the Muslim nation of those times  by some sahaba 

'ohhhh Muawiyah and Ali were both right..they were brothers anyway it was just a little disagreement...radianlahuann' 

'ohhh that was a mistake , anyways let Allah judge, you don't know what's in their heart ' 

Then I'm sorry, we can apply that to Mokhtar. So he was called a liar ? Does anyone accept him as an infallible or part of the ahlul bayt? Nah he was just a regular dude that did what he thought was necessary at the time ..he took worldly revenge on criminals. Kind of like a vigilante Assassin. Again I'd take mukhtar Thaqafi over a Khaled bin Waleed . And definitely would not condemn a man like Mukhtar if some of the brothers are using it as some kind of leverage to try and point out flaws in shia belief. (EVEN IF IT IS WRONG LOL FIRSTLY PEOPLE HAVE TO CALL OUT THEIR OWN )

pot calling the kettle black. It's like selling your guy out. 

Big him up may Allah forgive him for his shortcomings. I'd like to know what any later Imams said about him ? Apparently imam Sadiq (a) cosigned him, am I right ?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, SO SOLID SHIA said:

 

From what I understand is that Mokhtar allegedly pulled some cunning manoeuvres to achieve some kind of authority and get a cosign from the Imam of the time. I watched the series and he also went to one of Imam Ali's other sons Muhammad Hanafiya ? The leg dude lol in the series he kept moaning about his leg I thought they depicted him to be a bit weak......Lord knows . Anyways the POINT is okay he may have done what he felt was necessary and in the process allegedly been called a liar, some say it was during Taqiyyah times whatever but so what ? If our brothers can make excuses for crimes way worse that were committed against the ahlul Bayt and the Muslim nation of those times  by some sahaba 

'ohhhh Muawiyah and Ali were both right..they were brothers anyway it was just a little disagreement...radianlahuann' 

'ohhh that was a mistake , anyways let Allah judge, you don't know what's in their heart ' 

Then I'm sorry, we can apply that to Mokhtar. So he was called a liar ? Does anyone accept him as an infallible or part of the ahlul bayt? Nah he was just a regular dude that did what he thought was necessary at the time ..he took worldly revenge on criminals. Kind of like a vigilante Assassin. Again I'd take mukhtar Thaqafi over a Khaled bin Waleed . And definitely would not condemn a man like Mukhtar if some of the brothers are using it as some kind of leverage to try and point out flaws in shia belief. (EVEN IF IT IS WRONG LOL FIRSTLY PEOPLE HAVE TO CALL OUT THEIR OWN )

pot calling the kettle black. It's like selling your guy out. 

Big him up may Allah forgive him for his shortcomings. I'd like to know what any later Imams said about him ? Apparently imam Sadiq (a) cosigned him, am I right ?

 

I agree with you that many sahaba and tabieen committed crimes far worse than mukhtar and essentially get a free pass. 
 

best case for mukhtar he was a idealistic but misguided revolutionary 

worst case was a cunning politician who knew how to exploit the faultlines in Iraqi society to gain control like an anarchist 

Big question is was the revenge for Hussain his primary motive OR he used that as a convenient excuse to dethrone the other tribal leaders of kufa?  ( who willingly or were coerced into participating in the army that slaughtered imam and his entourage at Karbala ) maybe a mixture of both ? 

Tawwabun recognized ( correctly in my opinion) the bigger threat was Umayyad’s and chose to ignore the kufan complicity otherwise Iraq would become yet another battleground and Syrians will emerge victorious. Mukhtar wanted to take on both kufan nobles AND Umayyad’s,on top of that he was going to make Mawalis as important as Arabs in his govt. He was initially successful but the carnage and attrition that occurred in Iraq due to this weakened Iraqis so much that Abdul Malik’s Syrians were able to defeat both Ibn zubairs forces and remenents of Shia forces and this led to a century of Umayyad  oppression

Speculation on my part but seems like The Smarter ones amongst the supporters of imam Ali realized this and were neutral to mukhtar as they saw his movement totally uprooting the tribal order of Arab conquistadors in Iraq and leading to social anarchy. This tribal order was necessary ( despite its flaws) to counter the Umayyad’s. Even imam Ali did not just overturn it infact many of the ansar Sahaba settled in kufa during his time strengthening the Arab presence. Return of ibn Zubayr to Iraq ( who  has now toned down his anti Alid stance there )was seen as a better option for the Arab tribal leaders than the egalitarian dystopia ( in their view) of Mukhtar esp since another quraishi like ibn Zubayr was seen as a bulwark against Umayyad’s. 

Just my thoughts happy to be corrected 

And God knows best ( esp in this case ) 

Edited by Panzerwaffe
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29 minutes ago, Hameedeh said:

Salam. The 4th, 5th and 6th Imams AS all had positive words about Mukhtar, and you can read these at the link below:

Imam al-Baqir (‘a) thus said about him: “Do not speak ill of Mukhtar because he killed our murderers, did not allow our spilled blood to be disregarded, gave our daughters in marriage, and at the time of difficulty he distributed properties among us.

Imam (‘a) praised Mukhtar and prayed for God to have mercy on him, saying: “Glory be to Allah! My father (4th Imam AS) said that the affection of my mother was from the property that Mukhtar sent to my father.”

And the Imam (‘a) said many times: “May God have mercy upon your father! He did not allow for our right to be trampled. He killed our murderers and did not permit our blood to be disregarded.”

Imam as-Sadiq (‘a) also said: “In our family there was a woman who did not comb and apply henna to her hair until Mukhtar sent the heads of the murderers of al-Husayn (‘a).”

It has been narrated that when Mukhtar sent the head of the accursed ‘Ubayd Allah ibn Ziyad to Imam as-Sajjad (‘a), the Imam (‘a) prostrated and made benevolent prayer for Mukhtar.

https://www.al-islam.org/history-shiism-advent-islam-end-minor-occultation-ghulam-husayn-muharrami/lesson-11-period-imam

The reason that Iranian actors made The Mukhtar Narrative in serial form is because they wanted to show from a Shia religious point of view what happened, according to actual history, not rumor, lies, gossip and backbiting, fabrications of the enemies.

In Iran, all films need a production permit from Iran's Ministry of Culture and Islamic Guidance and after the film is finished at least one ayatullah needs to watch it to make sure it does not contain something that is false. There are probably extra people watching it just to make sure that it is factual, and don't you think those people in Iran's Ministry of Culture and Islamic Guidance are all involved in making sure the film is as legit as possible? The film cannot be screened to the Iranian public if any detail is wrong. If the dialogue the actors say in the film does not match with the Holy Qur'an or hadith or known history from ancient books, that scene would be edited and actors would need to record a correct dialogue. Editing always makes it take forever for these serials to be screened. To translate to other languages adds time that we have to wait. 

200w.webp?cid=6c09b952fv48b73nejogj58l9o

You came through for the team. God bless you.

 

Also I'd like to add, in a world full of Narieh's, we ask Allah to give us an Omreh

Elahi Ameen

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13 hours ago, SO SOLID SHIA said:

That's great ! Looking forward to it...I want that slightly S shape for Shia ....do you also provide lip fillers because I'm planning on going to a fancy dress belated Eid party this Friday inshallah?. Let me know the schedule 

No amount of lip filler can fix yo crusty lips so save your coins please xo

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14 hours ago, Panzerwaffe said:

honestly the way most 12er defend mukhtar blindly is similar to the way Sunnis defend some Sahaba

Well, 12er view of Mukhtar is different than Sunni view of some Sahaba. Apparently no harm touches Ahlebait from Mukhtar that's the thing that matters as opposed to Sahaba. Imam Ali (عليه السلام) says that if you are confused about a thing then see it's beginning, if beginning is good then end will be good and if beginning is wrong then end is wrong as well. Mukhtar protected Ahlebait at various grounds and if you find no praise for Mukhtar from Ahlebait, it's because of dissimulation as life was not easy during that time. 

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, 123xo said:

No amount of lip filler can fix yo crusty lips so save your coins please xo

That's the whole point. They're already ruined, I want you to make me look like a hijjabi influencer 

200px-Cheep_Cheep.png

Edited by SO SOLID SHIA
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14 hours ago, Borntowitnesstruth said:

Well, 12er view of Mukhtar is different than Sunni view of some Sahaba. Apparently no harm touches Ahlebait from Mukhtar that's the thing that matters as opposed to Sahaba. Imam Ali (عليه السلام) says that if you are confused about a thing then see it's beginning, if beginning is good then end will be good and if beginning is wrong then end is wrong as well. Mukhtar protected Ahlebait at various grounds and if you find no praise for Mukhtar from Ahlebait, it's because of dissimulation as life was not easy during that time. 

But again dissimulation should not be used as an excuse to iron out any inconsistencies in a doctrine that was allegedly formulated at a later stage and back projected to earlier times

If we rely on Shia Imani Hadith alone i guess it comes down to are pro mukhtar Hadith more reliable than anti mukhtar Hadith ? I’m not qualified to comment on that  maybe more knowledgeable members can contribute. 
But even that leaves us then what to do with Mukhtār of historical accounts esp those of Iraqi historians. Let alone the disparaging reports about him in Sunni sources. These Sunni sources cannot be assumed to have an automatic bias against Mukhtār either as many of the leading figures of the first generation of Shias are highly regarded by them. 

 

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19 hours ago, Hameedeh said:

Salam. The 4th, 5th and 6th Imams AS all had positive words about Mukhtar, and you can read these at the link below:

Imam al-Baqir (‘a) thus said about him: “Do not speak ill of Mukhtar because he killed our murderers, did not allow our spilled blood to be disregarded, gave our daughters in marriage, and at the time of difficulty he distributed properties among us.

Imam (‘a) praised Mukhtar and prayed for God to have mercy on him, saying: “Glory be to Allah! My father (4th Imam AS) said that the affection of my mother was from the property that Mukhtar sent to my father.”

And the Imam (‘a) said many times: “May God have mercy upon your father! He did not allow for our right to be trampled. He killed our murderers and did not permit our blood to be disregarded.”

Imam as-Sadiq (‘a) also said: “In our family there was a woman who did not comb and apply henna to her hair until Mukhtar sent the heads of the murderers of al-Husayn (‘a).”

It has been narrated that when Mukhtar sent the head of the accursed ‘Ubayd Allah ibn Ziyad to Imam as-Sajjad (‘a), the Imam (‘a) prostrated and made benevolent prayer for Mukhtar.

https://www.al-islam.org/history-shiism-advent-islam-end-minor-occultation-ghulam-husayn-muharrami/lesson-11-period-imam

The reason that Iranian actors made The Mukhtar Narrative in serial form is because they wanted to show from a Shia religious point of view what happened, according to actual history, not rumor, lies, gossip and backbiting, fabrications of the enemies.

In Iran, all films need a production permit from Iran's Ministry of Culture and Islamic Guidance and after the film is finished at least one ayatullah needs to watch it to make sure it does not contain something that is false. There are probably extra people watching it just to make sure that it is factual, and don't you think those people in Iran's Ministry of Culture and Islamic Guidance are all involved in making sure the film is as legit as possible? The film cannot be screened to the Iranian public if any detail is wrong. If the dialogue the actors say in the film does not match with the Holy Qur'an or hadith or known history from ancient books, that scene would be edited and actors would need to record a correct dialogue. Editing always makes it take forever for these serials to be screened. To translate to other languages adds time that we have to wait. 

So consensus of imami Shia  Hadith scholars is that all / most anti mukhtar Hadith are fabrications ? 

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On 4/9/2024 at 7:53 PM, sunnism said:

محمد بن الحسن و عثمان بن حامد، قالا حدثنا محمد بن يزداد الرازي، عن محمد بن الحسين بن أبي الخطاب، عن عبد الله المزخرف، عن حبيب الخثعمي، عن أبي عبد الله (عليه السلام) قال : كان المختار يكذب على علي بن الحسين (عليهما السلام)۔

Muhammad b. al-Hasan and `Uthman b. Hammad (thiqah) said: Muhammad b. Yazdad ar-Razi (thiqah) narrated to us from Muhammad b. al-Husayn b. Abi ‘l-Khattab (thiqah) from `Abdullah al-Mazkharaf (thiqah) from Habib al-Khath`ami (thiqah) from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام He said: Mukhtar used to lie against (or, about) `Ali b. al-Husayn عليهما السلام

Rijal Kashi, p. 125

 

ايضا به سند معتبر از امام محمد باقر عليه السلام روايت كرده است كه مختار نامه‏اى به خدمت حضرت امام زين العابدين عليه السلام نوشت و با هديه‏اى چند از عراق به خدمت آن جناب فرستاد، چون رسولان او به در خانه او رسيدند، رخصت طلبيدند كه داخل شوند، حضرت فرستاد كه: دور شويد كه من هديه دروغگويان را قبول نمى‏كنم و نامه ايشان را نمى‏خوانم

 

Similarly it is narrated with a reliable chain from Imam Baqir that Mukhtar wrote a letter to my father, alongwith gifts from Iraq. When the messengers reached the place of Imam, and asked to enter, Zainul Abideen said: Turn back, I don’t accept gifts from liars, and neither do I read their letters.

 

Jila ul Ayun , by Baqir Majlisi, p. 805-807

 

در بعضى از كتب معتبر روايت كرده‏اند كه مختار براى امام زين العابدين عليه السلام صد هزار درهم فرستاد، و آن جناب نمى‏خواست كه آن را قبول كند، و ترسيد از مختار كه رد كند و از او متضرر گردد، پس آن حضرت آن مال را در خانه ضبط كرد. چون مختار كشته شد، حقيقت حال را به عبد الملك نوشت كه: آن مال تعلق به تو دارد و بر تو گوارا است، و آن جناب مختار را لعنت كرد و مى‏فرمود: دروغ مى‏بندند بر خدا و بر ما، مختار دعوى مى‏كرد كه وحى خدا بر او نازل مى‏شود

 

In few reliable books, it is narrated that Mukhtar sent one hundred thousand dirham for Imam Zainul Abideen. But Imam wanted not to accept them. And he also feared that if he returned, than Mukhtar will create trouble for him, so he let the money at his home. When Mukhtar was killed, Imam wrote to Abdul Malik that this is your right, take it away. And he cursed Mukhtar and said, he would lie upon us, and he would claim that wahi of Allah reveals on me.

 

Jila ul Ayun , by Baqir Majlisi, p. 805-807

 

Salam your statement just a proof of your double standards which previously you have mentioned all Shia books are not Hujjah (proof) for while you have mentioned too weak narrations which in your translation you have created a Thiqa chain by  mentioning all narrators as Thiqa while you have not provided any evidence for calling all of them as Thiqa narrators while  "late Ayatollah Khoei (رضي الله عنه) believes that the chain of  [reproaching] transmission of this tradition is poor (dha’if). "  ;also in shia sources all negative narrations about Mukhatar (رضي الله عنه) has been mentioned due to Taqiyya because Imam Sajjad (عليه السلام) has been under heavy surveillance  & censorship of of cursed Umayyads in order to Imam (عليه السلام) & his followers won't initiate another revolt against them so therefore Imam (عليه السلام) has opposed opinion of some Ghulats likewise Kaysaniyyah sect who accustomed some beliefs to Mukhtar (رضي الله عنه) &  Muhammad b. al-Hanafiyya (رضي الله عنه) .

Mukhtar from the Perspective of Scholars
Most of the scholars and experts in the field of hadith and biography have chosen the traditions which praise Mukhtar. They have given opinions on these traditions as such:
A) The traditions which reproach and criticize Mukhtar are very poor in terms of the chain of transmission.[13] Kashi says in this regard: “It seems these traditions have been fabricated by Sunnis.”[14]

[13] Mu’jam al-Rijal, vol.18, p.97.

[14] Rijal Ibn Dawood, p.514, This is not stated anywhere in Rjial al-Kashi. Perhaps, Ibn Dawood has had a version of Rijal in which this is said.


B) It is very much likely that these traditions have been issued in the state of taqiyah (quietism or dissimulation) only to protect the Imam and the Hashemites from the evils of the tyrant  rulers.[15]

[15] Mu’jam al-Rijal, vol.18, p.100

Quote

C) It has been reported in the tradition that Mukhtar sent gifts twice to Imam Sajjad (عليه السلام) and his family but he rejected the gift on the second occasion arguing that Mukhtar was a liar. This is something very unlikely because if Mukhtar was a liar, Imam Sajjad (عليه السلام) should not have accepted the gifts on both occasions but he accepted the first gift.[16]

[16] Rijal Ibn Dawood, p.514.


D) The narrations which ascribe the Kaysaniyyah sect to him and labeling him as being a liar are, according biographers and experts of ilm-e rijal, among the accusations put to him Sunnis because Muhammad bin Hanafiyah never claimed to be the imam so that Mukhtar could call others to him. In fact, Kaysaniyyah was formed after the demise of Muhammad bin Hanfiyah.[17]

[17] Ibid, Mu’jam al-Rijal, vol.18, p.101.

Relation with Imam al-Sajjad (a)

There are different reports on al-Mukhtar's relation with Imam al-Sajjad (a). Some reports show that Imam al-Sajjad (a) did not welcome al-Mukhtar and rejected his gifts,[57].[58] whereas other reports show that he was approved by Imam al-Sajjad (a). With the censorship that existed because of the Umayyads and Zubayr dynasty, it was not possible for Imam al-Sajjad (a) to directly interfere. Therefore, he announced that Muhammad b. al-Hanafiyya is his representative and referred al-Mukhtar to him.

According to this report, al-Mukhtar sent 20,000 Dinars to the Imam (a), which he accepted, and rebuilt 'Aqil b. Abi Talib's house, and the rest of the Banu Hashims' houses which were ruined.[59] Al-Mukhtar also gifted a slave which he had bought for 30,000 Dirhams to Imam al-Sajjad (a). Zayd b. 'Ali was born from that slave.[60]

Another report states that when a group of leaders from Kufa went to visit Imam al-Sajjad (a) and asked him about al-Mukhtar's mission, he referred them to Muhammad b. al-Hanafiyya and said, "Oh uncle, if a black slave shows intolerance for our sake, it is obligatory for us to rush to his help. Do whatever you want regarding this matter, for I have chosen you as the representative in this issue."[61].[62]

Ayatollah Khoei[63] and Abd Allah Mamaqani[64] believe that al-Mukhtar had a specific permission from Imam al-Sajjad (a) for his uprising.

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Al-Mukhtar_b._Abi_'Ubayd_al-Thaqafi

 

On 4/10/2024 at 10:34 AM, Abu Nur said:

Yes, I'm amazed that people can still defend him.

You have confused by just looking to too weak narrations about reproaching him from too weak nHadith & accusations of Wahabis against him while you have not looked into reliable hadiths which he has been praised . 

Quote

1. Before the revolution of Ashura, Mukhtar was imprisoned in Kufa due to him supporting Muslim bin Aqil, Imam Hussein’s envoy to Kufa. At the best of Ibn Ziad, Mukhtar remained in prison until the end of the uprising in Karbala.[22] That was why he was not present in Karbala to defend Imam Hussein (عليه السلام).


2. According to some historical accounts, during the time of Imam Hasan (عليه السلام) in Madaen, Mukhtar decided to surrender the Imam to Mu’awiyah and take over the emirate in Iraq.[23]

When it comes to this historical account, it must be said that even if we assume that this claim about Mukhtar is genuine, this event and what he had said dates back to twenty years before his martyrdom.  When we want to judge about someone being good or bad, we should look at his present condition. Although this saying of Mukhtar is not good, it does not change our judgement about his overall character. There have been people in history such as Hurr bin Yazid Riyahi who deserted Yazid’s army and joined Imam Hussein. Just in a few hours’ time, he turned in repentance, achieved eternal prosperity and changed the judgement of history about himself.

 

On 4/10/2024 at 2:18 PM, Abu Nur said:

Read the narrations, you can not say no to them.

Mukhtar’s personality in the narrations
The traditions about Mukhtar in our sources are divided into two categories; some of them praise him and others simply reproach him. 
A) Traditions praising Mukhtar
There are many traditions in the hadith books praising Mukhtar. However, for the sake of brevity, we will mention only three instances:
1. Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) said: “None of the Hashemi women combed and applied henna to their hair until Mukhtar sent the heads of the murderers of Hussein to our family.”[5] Ayatollah Khoi (رضي الله عنه) considered this narration as authentic[6] and it is a clear endorsement of Mukhtar’s action.


2. Imam al-Baqir (‘a) thus said about him: “Do not speak ill of Mukhtar because he killed our murderers, did not allow our spilled blood to be disregarded, gave our daughters in marriage, and at the time of difficulty he distributed properties among us.”[7]


It has been narrated that when Mukhtar sent the head of the accursed ‘Ubayd Allah ibn Ziyad to Imam as-Sajjad (‘a), the Imam (‘a) prostrated and made benevolent prayer for Mukhtar saying: "جَزىَ اللهُ المُختارَ خَیراً"  (may Allah reward Mukhtar). [8]

 

[5] Behar al-Anwar, vol.45, p.386; Rijal al-Kashi, p.127.
[6]Khoei, Abul Qasim, Mu’jam al-Rijal, vol.18, p.94, Qom, 1410 A.H.
[7] Behar al-Anwar, vol.45, p.343; Rijal al-Kashi, p.125.
[8] Rijal al-Kashi, p.128.
 

Traditions reproaching Mukhtar
Here, we shall also make reference to only three instances:
1. Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) said:  “Mukhtar ascribed lies to Imam Sajjad.”[9]


2. In another report it has been narrated that Mukhtar sent twenty thousand dinars to Imam Zainul Abedeen. The Imam accepted the amount and spent it on reconstructing ruined houses.  Then he sent Imam Sajjad another load, a gift,  which the Imam (عليه السلام) did not accept.[10] In another narration, it has been reported that the Imam said: “I do not accept any gift from liars.”[11]


3. Mukhtar is also reproached for his belief in the imamate of Muhammad bin Hanafiyah and for his calling on people to accept him as the next leader. He was allegedly involved in the creation of the Kaysaniyyah sect.[12]

[9] Behar al-Anwar, vol.45, p.343.
[10] Rijal al-Kashi, p.128.
[11] Ibid, p.126.
[12] Hilli, Ibn Dawood, Rijal, p.514, Tehran, 1383 (Persian calendar).
 
On 4/10/2024 at 5:03 PM, Panzerwaffe said:

Then you must think really highly of the two elders who are buried next to our prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) 

Salam this is comparing apples with oranges because that two elders have shown their enmity toward blessed household of prophet Muhammad (pbu) while Mukhtar (رضي الله عنه) has shown devotion & loyalty to  blessed household of prophet Muhammad (pbu) also that two elders have been buried by hijacking inheritance of prophet Muhammad (pbu) by Ayesha while accroding @sunnism & @Qadri_01 prophet Muhammad (pbu) has not left any inheritance while they are praising Ayesha for hijacking inheritance of prophet Muhammad (pbu)  based on their double standards . 

On 4/10/2024 at 5:05 PM, Panzerwaffe said:

Please add more reasons / evidence as to why you have such a negative image of Mukhtar 

 

to be clear I’m neutral but I lean towards doubting his intentions about almost everything as that’s whaT Arab shias  of Iraq did in his time 

Mukhtar’s Enemies

Doubtlessly, this fib was scribed by the Umayyid propaganda vizier. However, while Mukhtar had ample external enemies – including the Umayyid caliphs, his rival Ibn Zubayr, and the killers of Imam Husayn – his true enemies came from within, and, in the end, they were the ones who brought him down. While virtually no one, not even the Umayyid governor ‘Abdullah ibn Yazid, could find fault with his desire to take vengeance for Imam Husayn20, the Kufan aristocracy shivered at his other banner: social equality.

At the time, Kufan society was highly stratified, with the non-Arabs (mostly Iranian mawali) paying higher taxes and receiving short shrift21. However, as these foreigners joined the fold of Islam, they expected to be treated as equals and were dismayed when they were viewed more as chattel. Mukhtar promised to uplift them, and, unsurprisingly, they followed him in droves. Mukhtar’s equitable treatment towards them scared the nobles, who gathered outside the city and proclaimed22:

Quote

By god, this man [Mukhtar] has made himself commander over us without our consent. He has drawn our mawali near to himself, mounted them on horses, given them stipends, and assigned our fay’ to them. Our slaves have disobeyed us, and our orphans and widows have thus been despoiled.

As soon as Mukhtar’s army had left Kufa, they revolted, forcing kinsmen to fight kinsmen and blood to flow through the Kufan streets23. While Mukhtar quickly put down that rebellion, animosity towards the mawali did not subside. Tragically, during a subsequent battle, one of Mukhtar’s officers tricked his commander into dismounting the mawali; practically none of them survived24. Despite the fact that Mukhtar had once pardoned these Kufan nobles, they ultimately turned against him and sided with Mas‘ab ibn Zubayr, even though he prided himself on being ‘the butcher’. After killing Mukhtar, Mas‘ab then fulfilled his name and executed thousands of mawali25.

 

https://www.al-islam.org/mukhtar-al-thaqafi-character-versus-controversy-amina-inloes/mukhtar-al-thaqafi-character-versus

 

 

Question 094: What is the shia opinion of Mukhtar al-Thaqafi?

Answer 094: There are two different opinions about Mukhtar al-Thaqafi. Some commended him and others blamed him.

The following are some reliable traditions in which Mukhtar has been commended and accepted by scholars of hadith and Rijal sciences:

Based on reports in history books, Mukhtar killed Umar bin Saad and sent his head along with some money to Muhammad bin Hanafiyah. Seeing Umarbin Saad’s head, Muhammad bin Hanafiyah prayed for Mukhtar as such, “O Allah, grant Mukhtar the best of rewards on behalf of Muhammad (saws) and his Ahlul-Bayt[1].”

Indeed, according to another tradition which has been related by Kashi in his book, it says, “When Ubaidullah bin-Ziad and Umar bin Saad heads were brought to Imam Zainul Abedeen ((عليه السلام)), the Imam prostrated praising and thanking Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and praying for Mukhtar and wishing him well[2].”

Based on a another report by Ya’qubi, Ubaidullah bin Ziad’s head was sent to the fourth Imam, Imam Sajjad ((عليه السلام)) and Umar bin Saad’s head were sent to Muhammad bin Hanafiyah. It was said, “Do not blame Mukhtar, because he killed our enemies[3].”

However, there were some traditions in which Mukhtar has been blamed,[4] but most of Shia scholars haven’t approved such traditions[5].

For further information, please read the following answer:

Index: The number of soldiers who came to Karbala to fight against Imam Hussain (عليه السلام), answer 568.

Index: Enemies killed by Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) in Karbala on the Day of Ashura, answer 598.

[1] . Ibn A’tham Kufi, Ahmad bin A’tham,al-Fotuh, researched by, Shiri, Ali, vol.6, p. 247, Dar al-Azwaa, Beirut, 1411 A.H; al-Bedayah wa al-Nehayah, vol.8, p. 274; Balazari, Ahmad bin Yahya, Ansaab al-Ashraf, researched by Zakaar, Suhayl,Zarkali, Reyadh, vol.6, p. 406, Dar al-Fikr, Beirut, 1417 A.H.

[2] . The Arabic version of the report is as under: «أَنَّعَلِيَّ بْنَ الْحُسَيْنِ(ع)لَمَّاأُتِيَ بِرَأْسِ عُبَيْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِزِيَادٍ وَ رَأْسِ عُمَرَ بْنِ سَعْدٍخَرَّ سَاجِداً وَ قَالَ الْحَمْدُلِلَّهِ الَّذِي أَدْرَكَ لِي ثَأْرِيمِنْ أَعْدَائِي وَ جَزَى الْمُخْتَارَخَيْراً» Kashi, Muhammad bin Umar, Ikhtiyar Ma’refat al-Rejal, researched and edited: Shaykh Tusi, Muhammad bin Hasan, Mustafawi, Hasa, p. 127, Mashad University Press, first edition, 1409 A.H.

[3] . Biharal-Anwar, Vol. 45, Pg. 343.

[4] . Bihar al-Anwar, Vol. 45, Pg. 343; Ibid, Pg. 126.

[5] . Mojam al-Rijal, Vol. 18, Pg. 100

https://askislam.ir/en/mukhtar-al-thaqafi-according-shia/

 

Chapter 5: Mukhtar al-Thaqafi

Chapter 5: Mukhtār al-Thaqāfī, The Enlightened Messianic Activist, The Shī‘ite Insurrection as Political Reaction, Reparation and Revenge

Abd Allāh ibn Saba’ and Mukhtār al-Thaqāfī are presented by Alessandro Bausani as “extremists” [ghulāt]14 and precursors of a political Shī‘ism. Muslim and non-Muslim specialists have long disputed which one deserves the inappropriate title of “founder of Shī‘ite Islām.” The Italian Orientalist briefly refers to ‘Abd Allāh ibn Saba’ as an exalted personality, an ex-Jewish Yemenite who deified ‘Alī during his lifetime. The feeble historical foundation surrounding someone considered to be no less than the “founder of Shī‘ite Islām” should have led Bausani and other contemporary Orientalists to infer that they were dealing with a fictitious character or an insignificant individual whose existence had not even been faithfully documented by the annals of time.

It is shocking to learn, nonetheless, that the refusal to recognize Shī‘ism as a historical and meta-historical reality profoundly rooted since the dawn of Islām has led certain Orientalists to discard the strongest evidence in favor of the weakest. In reality, ‘Abd Allāh ibn Saba’ is a literary character, a fabrication of Sayf ibn ‘Umar al-Zindīq [the Atheist or Dualist], a famous falsifier of aḥādīth or prophetic traditions.15

 

https://www.al-islam.org/shiite-islam-orthodoxy-or-heterodoxy-second-amended-and-amplified-edition-luis-alberto-vittor-14

 

Mukhtar Al-Thaqafi: Character Versus Controversy

Amina Inloes

Quote

Mukhtar was also not the treacherous type. Although he planned to take over the government, he did not plot to do so; in fact, he spoke quite openly about his intents – even though his forthrightness landed him in jail again1516. Furthermore, throughout his reign, he consistently conducted himself with honour and generosity, repeatedly pardoning his enemies and distributing all nine million dirhams of the treasury to the public17. He also went to great lengths to preserve his dignity and once disappeared to Ta’if for a year so that Ibn Zubayr would realize that Mukhtar ‘had no need of him’18. All in all, Mukhtar epitomized the proverbial Arab virtues of bravery, generosity, and honour; a European admirer would have called him chivalrous

 

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On 4/9/2024 at 11:37 PM, Panzerwaffe said:

Shibath b ribea ( participant in Karbala against imam ) spares a very devout  Shia as he is from tribe of ziyad b khasafa ( who himself was a loyal follower of Ali ). Yet they ruthlessly killed Iranian followers of mukhtar 

Salam in opposition of your claim cursed Shibath b ribea ( participant in Karbala against imam ) never ever has been a shia which his tribal connection doesn't make him a devout Shia although  he has been one of aristocrats of Kuffa which Mukhtar for being peace with his tribe had to tolerate him in order to prevent uprising of Arab tribes against Mawali (Iranian converts).

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1 hour ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

You have confused by just looking to too weak narrations about reproaching him from too weak nHadith & accusations of Wahabis against him while you have not looked into reliable hadiths which he has been praised . 

Salaam Aleikum,

Those hadiths are not weak. It is possible that the Imam (عليه السلام) said them in Taqiyyah.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/9/2024 at 7:53 PM, sunnism said:

Jila ul Ayun , by Baqir Majlisi

Salam

 

 

 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam in opposition of your claim cursed Shibath b ribea ( participant in Karbala against imam ) never ever has been a shia which his tribal connection doesn't make him a devout Shia although  he has been one of aristocrats of Kuffa which Mukhtar for being peace with his tribe had to tolerate him in order to prevent uprising of Arab tribes against Mawali (Iranian converts).

I said ibn khasafa was a devout Shia and his relative ( who was a mawali) I don’t recall his name. I didn’t say Shabath was. 

shabath was  a companion of imam Ali though and his opposition to uthmanids at that time was quite strong but in reality, he was just an opportunistic tribal leader

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5 hours ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

Sayyid Khu'i (rh) 's view is that the ahadith against him are either ambiguous, weak in sanad or in taqiyyah, or incomplete in their mutoon wherein we get the full picture from the other shawahid. The ones in his praise are more sound in transmission and documentation and more categorical. I don't think there is any 'consensus' among the Twelver scholarship; some simply do tawaqquf on him (like al-Majlisi rh) while the others are in his favour. 

Even some of the narrations from the Baqirayn (عليه السلام) indicting him end with the promise that he will receive their intercession despite all his putative blunders and offences, because he rose to avenge al-Hussayn (as)'s blood and took his murderers to the gallows. That hints towards something. 

I don't have the references now and this all from memory. I will have to dig them up, and inshallah I'll find the time, but the majority of the material which I am quoting is from his mu'jam al-rijal, and the discussions by his students on Mukhtaar's character. 

Thank you so much , looking forward to it whenever you have time. 

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4 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam your statement just a proof of your double standards which previously you have mentioned all Shia books are not Hujjah (proof) for while you have mentioned too weak narrations which in your translation you have created a Thiqa chain by  mentioning all narrators as Thiqa while you have not provided any evidence for calling all of them as Thiqa narrators while  "late Ayatollah Khoei (رضي الله عنه) believes that the chain of  [reproaching] transmission of this tradition is poor (dha’if). "  ;also in shia sources all negative narrations about Mukhatar (رضي الله عنه) has been mentioned due to Taqiyya because Imam Sajjad (عليه السلام) has been under heavy surveillance  & censorship of of cursed Umayyads in order to Imam (عليه السلام) & his followers won't initiate another revolt against them so therefore Imam (عليه السلام) has opposed opinion of some Ghulats likewise Kaysaniyyah sect who accustomed some beliefs to Mukhtar (رضي الله عنه) &  Muhammad b. al-Hanafiyya (رضي الله عنه) .

Mukhtar from the Perspective of Scholars
Most of the scholars and experts in the field of hadith and biography have chosen the traditions which praise Mukhtar. They have given opinions on these traditions as such:
A) The traditions which reproach and criticize Mukhtar are very poor in terms of the chain of transmission.[13] Kashi says in this regard: “It seems these traditions have been fabricated by Sunnis.”[14]

[13] Mu’jam al-Rijal, vol.18, p.97.

[14] Rijal Ibn Dawood, p.514, This is not stated anywhere in Rjial al-Kashi. Perhaps, Ibn Dawood has had a version of Rijal in which this is said.


B) It is very much likely that these traditions have been issued in the state of taqiyah (quietism or dissimulation) only to protect the Imam and the Hashemites from the evils of the tyrant  rulers.[15]

[15] Mu’jam al-Rijal, vol.18, p.100

Relation with Imam al-Sajjad (a)

There are different reports on al-Mukhtar's relation with Imam al-Sajjad (a). Some reports show that Imam al-Sajjad (a) did not welcome al-Mukhtar and rejected his gifts,[57].[58] whereas other reports show that he was approved by Imam al-Sajjad (a). With the censorship that existed because of the Umayyads and Zubayr dynasty, it was not possible for Imam al-Sajjad (a) to directly interfere. Therefore, he announced that Muhammad b. al-Hanafiyya is his representative and referred al-Mukhtar to him.

According to this report, al-Mukhtar sent 20,000 Dinars to the Imam (a), which he accepted, and rebuilt 'Aqil b. Abi Talib's house, and the rest of the Banu Hashims' houses which were ruined.[59] Al-Mukhtar also gifted a slave which he had bought for 30,000 Dirhams to Imam al-Sajjad (a). Zayd b. 'Ali was born from that slave.[60]

Another report states that when a group of leaders from Kufa went to visit Imam al-Sajjad (a) and asked him about al-Mukhtar's mission, he referred them to Muhammad b. al-Hanafiyya and said, "Oh uncle, if a black slave shows intolerance for our sake, it is obligatory for us to rush to his help. Do whatever you want regarding this matter, for I have chosen you as the representative in this issue."[61].[62]

Ayatollah Khoei[63] and Abd Allah Mamaqani[64] believe that al-Mukhtar had a specific permission from Imam al-Sajjad (a) for his uprising.

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Al-Mukhtar_b._Abi_'Ubayd_al-Thaqafi

 

You have confused by just looking to too weak narrations about reproaching him from too weak nHadith & accusations of Wahabis against him while you have not looked into reliable hadiths which he has been praised . 

When it comes to this historical account, it must be said that even if we assume that this claim about Mukhtar is genuine, this event and what he had said dates back to twenty years before his martyrdom.  When we want to judge about someone being good or bad, we should look at his present condition. Although this saying of Mukhtar is not good, it does not change our judgement about his overall character. There have been people in history such as Hurr bin Yazid Riyahi who deserted Yazid’s army and joined Imam Hussein. Just in a few hours’ time, he turned in repentance, achieved eternal prosperity and changed the judgement of history about himself.

 

Mukhtar’s personality in the narrations
The traditions about Mukhtar in our sources are divided into two categories; some of them praise him and others simply reproach him. 
A) Traditions praising Mukhtar
There are many traditions in the hadith books praising Mukhtar. However, for the sake of brevity, we will mention only three instances:
1. Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) said: “None of the Hashemi women combed and applied henna to their hair until Mukhtar sent the heads of the murderers of Hussein to our family.”[5] Ayatollah Khoi (رضي الله عنه) considered this narration as authentic[6] and it is a clear endorsement of Mukhtar’s action.


2. Imam al-Baqir (‘a) thus said about him: “Do not speak ill of Mukhtar because he killed our murderers, did not allow our spilled blood to be disregarded, gave our daughters in marriage, and at the time of difficulty he distributed properties among us.”[7]


It has been narrated that when Mukhtar sent the head of the accursed ‘Ubayd Allah ibn Ziyad to Imam as-Sajjad (‘a), the Imam (‘a) prostrated and made benevolent prayer for Mukhtar saying: "جَزىَ اللهُ المُختارَ خَیراً"  (may Allah reward Mukhtar). [8]

 

[5] Behar al-Anwar, vol.45, p.386; Rijal al-Kashi, p.127.
[6]Khoei, Abul Qasim, Mu’jam al-Rijal, vol.18, p.94, Qom, 1410 A.H.
[7] Behar al-Anwar, vol.45, p.343; Rijal al-Kashi, p.125.
[8] Rijal al-Kashi, p.128.
 

Traditions reproaching Mukhtar
Here, we shall also make reference to only three instances:
1. Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) said:  “Mukhtar ascribed lies to Imam Sajjad.”[9]


2. In another report it has been narrated that Mukhtar sent twenty thousand dinars to Imam Zainul Abedeen. The Imam accepted the amount and spent it on reconstructing ruined houses.  Then he sent Imam Sajjad another load, a gift,  which the Imam (عليه السلام) did not accept.[10] In another narration, it has been reported that the Imam said: “I do not accept any gift from liars.”[11]


3. Mukhtar is also reproached for his belief in the imamate of Muhammad bin Hanafiyah and for his calling on people to accept him as the next leader. He was allegedly involved in the creation of the Kaysaniyyah sect.[12]

[9] Behar al-Anwar, vol.45, p.343.
[10] Rijal al-Kashi, p.128.
[11] Ibid, p.126.
[12] Hilli, Ibn Dawood, Rijal, p.514, Tehran, 1383 (Persian calendar).
 

Salam this is comparing apples with oranges because that two elders have shown their enmity toward blessed household of prophet Muhammad (pbu) while Mukhtar (رضي الله عنه) has shown devotion & loyalty to  blessed household of prophet Muhammad (pbu) also that two elders have been buried by hijacking inheritance of prophet Muhammad (pbu) by Ayesha while accroding @sunnism & @Qadri_01 prophet Muhammad (pbu) has not left any inheritance while they are praising Ayesha for hijacking inheritance of prophet Muhammad (pbu)  based on their double standards . 

Mukhtar’s Enemies

Doubtlessly, this fib was scribed by the Umayyid propaganda vizier. However, while Mukhtar had ample external enemies – including the Umayyid caliphs, his rival Ibn Zubayr, and the killers of Imam Husayn – his true enemies came from within, and, in the end, they were the ones who brought him down. While virtually no one, not even the Umayyid governor ‘Abdullah ibn Yazid, could find fault with his desire to take vengeance for Imam Husayn20, the Kufan aristocracy shivered at his other banner: social equality.

At the time, Kufan society was highly stratified, with the non-Arabs (mostly Iranian mawali) paying higher taxes and receiving short shrift21. However, as these foreigners joined the fold of Islam, they expected to be treated as equals and were dismayed when they were viewed more as chattel. Mukhtar promised to uplift them, and, unsurprisingly, they followed him in droves. Mukhtar’s equitable treatment towards them scared the nobles, who gathered outside the city and proclaimed22:

As soon as Mukhtar’s army had left Kufa, they revolted, forcing kinsmen to fight kinsmen and blood to flow through the Kufan streets23. While Mukhtar quickly put down that rebellion, animosity towards the mawali did not subside. Tragically, during a subsequent battle, one of Mukhtar’s officers tricked his commander into dismounting the mawali; practically none of them survived24. Despite the fact that Mukhtar had once pardoned these Kufan nobles, they ultimately turned against him and sided with Mas‘ab ibn Zubayr, even though he prided himself on being ‘the butcher’. After killing Mukhtar, Mas‘ab then fulfilled his name and executed thousands of mawali25.

 

https://www.al-islam.org/mukhtar-al-thaqafi-character-versus-controversy-amina-inloes/mukhtar-al-thaqafi-character-versus

 

 

Question 094: What is the shia opinion of Mukhtar al-Thaqafi?

Answer 094: There are two different opinions about Mukhtar al-Thaqafi. Some commended him and others blamed him.

The following are some reliable traditions in which Mukhtar has been commended and accepted by scholars of hadith and Rijal sciences:

Based on reports in history books, Mukhtar killed Umar bin Saad and sent his head along with some money to Muhammad bin Hanafiyah. Seeing Umarbin Saad’s head, Muhammad bin Hanafiyah prayed for Mukhtar as such, “O Allah, grant Mukhtar the best of rewards on behalf of Muhammad (saws) and his Ahlul-Bayt[1].”

Indeed, according to another tradition which has been related by Kashi in his book, it says, “When Ubaidullah bin-Ziad and Umar bin Saad heads were brought to Imam Zainul Abedeen ((عليه السلام)), the Imam prostrated praising and thanking Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and praying for Mukhtar and wishing him well[2].”

Based on a another report by Ya’qubi, Ubaidullah bin Ziad’s head was sent to the fourth Imam, Imam Sajjad ((عليه السلام)) and Umar bin Saad’s head were sent to Muhammad bin Hanafiyah. It was said, “Do not blame Mukhtar, because he killed our enemies[3].”

However, there were some traditions in which Mukhtar has been blamed,[4] but most of Shia scholars haven’t approved such traditions[5].

For further information, please read the following answer:

Index: The number of soldiers who came to Karbala to fight against Imam Hussain (عليه السلام), answer 568.

Index: Enemies killed by Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) in Karbala on the Day of Ashura, answer 598.

[1] . Ibn A’tham Kufi, Ahmad bin A’tham,al-Fotuh, researched by, Shiri, Ali, vol.6, p. 247, Dar al-Azwaa, Beirut, 1411 A.H; al-Bedayah wa al-Nehayah, vol.8, p. 274; Balazari, Ahmad bin Yahya, Ansaab al-Ashraf, researched by Zakaar, Suhayl,Zarkali, Reyadh, vol.6, p. 406, Dar al-Fikr, Beirut, 1417 A.H.

[2] . The Arabic version of the report is as under: «أَنَّعَلِيَّ بْنَ الْحُسَيْنِ(ع)لَمَّاأُتِيَ بِرَأْسِ عُبَيْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِزِيَادٍ وَ رَأْسِ عُمَرَ بْنِ سَعْدٍخَرَّ سَاجِداً وَ قَالَ الْحَمْدُلِلَّهِ الَّذِي أَدْرَكَ لِي ثَأْرِيمِنْ أَعْدَائِي وَ جَزَى الْمُخْتَارَخَيْراً» Kashi, Muhammad bin Umar, Ikhtiyar Ma’refat al-Rejal, researched and edited: Shaykh Tusi, Muhammad bin Hasan, Mustafawi, Hasa, p. 127, Mashad University Press, first edition, 1409 A.H.

[3] . Biharal-Anwar, Vol. 45, Pg. 343.

[4] . Bihar al-Anwar, Vol. 45, Pg. 343; Ibid, Pg. 126.

[5] . Mojam al-Rijal, Vol. 18, Pg. 100

https://askislam.ir/en/mukhtar-al-thaqafi-according-shia/

 

Chapter 5: Mukhtar al-Thaqafi

Chapter 5: Mukhtār al-Thaqāfī, The Enlightened Messianic Activist, The Shī‘ite Insurrection as Political Reaction, Reparation and Revenge

Abd Allāh ibn Saba’ and Mukhtār al-Thaqāfī are presented by Alessandro Bausani as “extremists” [ghulāt]14 and precursors of a political Shī‘ism. Muslim and non-Muslim specialists have long disputed which one deserves the inappropriate title of “founder of Shī‘ite Islām.” The Italian Orientalist briefly refers to ‘Abd Allāh ibn Saba’ as an exalted personality, an ex-Jewish Yemenite who deified ‘Alī during his lifetime. The feeble historical foundation surrounding someone considered to be no less than the “founder of Shī‘ite Islām” should have led Bausani and other contemporary Orientalists to infer that they were dealing with a fictitious character or an insignificant individual whose existence had not even been faithfully documented by the annals of time.

It is shocking to learn, nonetheless, that the refusal to recognize Shī‘ism as a historical and meta-historical reality profoundly rooted since the dawn of Islām has led certain Orientalists to discard the strongest evidence in favor of the weakest. In reality, ‘Abd Allāh ibn Saba’ is a literary character, a fabrication of Sayf ibn ‘Umar al-Zindīq [the Atheist or Dualist], a famous falsifier of aḥādīth or prophetic traditions.15

 

https://www.al-islam.org/shiite-islam-orthodoxy-or-heterodoxy-second-amended-and-amplified-edition-luis-alberto-vittor-14

 

Mukhtar Al-Thaqafi: Character Versus Controversy

Amina Inloes

 

There are problems in details here Abdullah b yazid is not a Umayyad governor of kufa 

he was a companion of Ali fought with him in his battles and was appointed by ibn Zubayr as governer, his attitude towards ibn sured was far more sympathetic ( largely because of latters hostility to Umayyads). Than his attitude towards mukhtar.

abdullah b yazid is not anti Shia even later btw he led the funeral prayers and burial of one of the most staunch Shias of kufa ( harith first name ) forget his full name but incident is in sahih Muslim I believe 

also he is chided by son of Talha for being too weak and supporting of tawwabun as he allowed them to prepare for war without any restrictions and was removed by ibn Zubayr later 

just a small but many example of that several anti Umayyad personalities of Iraq also had deep reservations about mukhtar 

I do agree with you that the social reforms of mukhtar were concerning to all Arab tribal leaders regardless of their religious inclination 

 

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15 hours ago, Panzerwaffe said:

But again dissimulation should not be used as an excuse to iron out any inconsistencies in a doctrine that was allegedly formulated at a later stage and back projected to earlier times

If we rely on Shia Imani Hadith alone i guess it comes down to are pro mukhtar Hadith more reliable than anti mukhtar Hadith ? I’m not qualified to comment on that  maybe more knowledgeable members can contribute. 
But even that leaves us then what to do with Mukhtār of historical accounts esp those of Iraqi historians. Let alone the disparaging reports about him in Sunni sources. These Sunni sources cannot be assumed to have an automatic bias against Mukhtār either as many of the leading figures of the first generation of Shias are highly regarded by them. 

If we read historical accounts, we can find many self-ascribed Shias making alliance with nawasib to defeat the cause of Mukhtar al Saqafi. So, there can be false reports propagated by those anti-mukhtar Shias who made alliance with nawasib. At the end, we can judge mukhtar's character by agreeing to the fact that no harm was caused by him to the house of Ahlebait that testifies his positive role.

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1 hour ago, Borntowitnesstruth said:

If we read historical accounts, we can find many self-ascribed Shias making alliance with nawasib to defeat the cause of Mukhtar al Saqafi. So, there can be false reports propagated by those anti-mukhtar Shias who made alliance with nawasib. At the end, we can judge mukhtar's character by agreeing to the fact that no harm was caused by him to the house of Ahlebait that testifies his positive role.

“ self ascribed Shias” is a very misleading term because the same accusation was made against mukhtar himself. 

furthermore some of the people who actually killed ibn ziyad ( Ibrahim b Ashtar ) for Mukhtār later joined “ nawasib” like ibn Zubayr against Umayyad’s 

I  think things we can all agree on is that regardless of the circumstances he went of his way to punish the killers of Husayn and gave mawalis their fair share in the govt. it can be argued that if it wasn’t for him, those two things would not have happened at least for another generation

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Mukhtar was also not the treacherous type. Although he planned to take over the government, he did not plot to do so; in fact, he spoke quite openly about his intents – even though his forthrightness landed him in jail again1516. Furthermore, throughout his reign, he consistently conducted himself with honour and generosity, repeatedly pardoning his enemies and distributing all nine million dirhams of the treasury to the public17. He also went to great lengths to preserve his dignity and once disappeared to Ta’if for a year so that Ibn Zubayr would realize that Mukhtar ‘had no need of him’18. All in all, Mukhtar epitomized the proverbial Arab virtues of bravery, generosity, and honour; a European admirer would have called him chivalrous

200w.webp?cid=6c09b952ircwwu073zxnb3lyvw

 

 

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On 4/12/2024 at 4:52 AM, SO SOLID SHIA said:

Also I'd like to add, in a world full of Narieh's, we ask Allah to give us an Omreh

Can anybody tell me when it was the last time this guy went to war to be asking for a omreh

 

8 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

said them in Taqiyyah

Can you explain this more? Why would they say it in Taqqiyah?

 

8 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

alam in opposition of your claim cursed Shibath b ribea ( participant in Karbala against imam ) never ever has been a shia which his tribal connection doesn't make him a devout Shia although  he has been one of aristocrats of Kuffa which Mukhtar for being peace with his tribe had to tolerate him in order to prevent uprising of Arab tribes against Mawali (Iranian converts).

My dear fellow Iranian. I love you but why do u reply in different colours?

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As far as my research goes, Mukhtar (rh) is considered a hero of Shi'ism...never read anything bad about him (rh)...may Allah forgive any minor infractions he (rh) might have committed

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