Jump to content
In the Name of God بسم الله

Prophets don't leave inheritance.

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

  • Advanced Member
20 hours ago, sunnism said:

Getting purified by messenger of allah means purified by allah. 

Fatimah’s Characteristics

Fatimah az-Zahra’ (s.a.) was different from all women in her high qualities and noble characteristics that took her to the highest rank of virtue and perfection. She was an example of her father’s morals and mentality. She resembled him in his deep faith in Allah the Almighty, asceticism, and refraining from pleasures of this life. Here, we talk about some of Fatimah’s characteristics:

Infallibility

Fatimah (s.a.) was infallible, and this is an indisputable fact. Allah had purified her from every sin and every defect, and endowed her with all virtues to make her an example for all the women of the world. She was an ideal example in faith, worship, chastity, purity, charity, and kindness to the poor and the deprived.

Proofs on her infallibility

1. The verse of purification; Allah has said,

“Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O people of the House, and to purify you a (thorough) purifying.” 33:33

The People of the House (the Ahlul Bayt) were Ali, Fatimah, al-Hasan and al-Husayn ((عليه السلام).).1

1.Tafsir of ar-Razi, vol.6 p.783, Tafsir of ibn Jarir, Musnad of Ahmed bin Hanbal, vol.4 p.107, Sunan of al-Bayhaqi, vol.2 p.14, al-Khasa’iss of an-Nassa’iy, p.33, al-Khasa’iss al-Kubra, vol.2 p.264, ar-Riyadh an-Nadhirah, vol.2 p.188, Mushkil al-Aathar, vol.1 p.324.

The verse clearly proves the infallibility and purity of these persons from every sin and vices. Allah had chosen these people to be examples for His people and guides to His obedience and pleasure. It is impossible for Allah to give sinners or guilty people this gift.

Infallibility, in its concept, definitely would not be far from the Ahlul Bayt ((عليه السلام).) who were the centers of knowledge and wisdom in Islam. For forty years, I have researched and written books on them, but I could find a slip neither in their sayings nor in their doings. Even their enemies, who were full of grudge against them, did not mention any fault or any bit of deviation about them.

Imam Ali ((عليه السلام).) says, ‘By Allah, if I am given the seven districts with all that under their skies to disobey Allah in a bran of a grain of barley that I deprive it of a mouth of a locust, I will never do.’

This far extent of piety in the imams is the very infallibility that the Shia believe to be in their imams. Anyhow, Fatimah (s.a.) was one of the fourteen infallible members of the Ahlul Bayt ((عليه السلام).).

2. The Prophet (S) made all his nation, through his repeated sayings, know that Fatimah (s.a.) was a part from him, and that whatever pleased her would please him and whatever displeased her would displease him. That she was a part from the Prophet (S) means that she was infallible since the Prophet (S) was infallible.

 

3. The true traditions that were transmitted from the Prophet (S) confirmed that Allah would be pleased with the pleasure of Fatimah (s.a.) and would be displeased with her displeasure. These traditions mean that Fatimah (s.a.) had reached a degree of faith and piety that would take her to the same rank of the infallible prophets who sincerely obeyed Allah and knew Him as He was.

20 hours ago, sunnism said:

Getting purified by messenger of allah means purified by allah.

4. The Prophet (S) compared his progeny to the Book of Allah as in the mutawatir (successive) tradition of “ath-Thaqalayn”, and since the Book of Allah is infallible from any falseness, so are the Ahlul Bayt ((عليه السلام).); otherwise, the Prophet (S) would not compare them to the Book of Allah. Fatimah (s.a.) was at the head of the pure progeny of the Prophet (S) and was the mother of all the infallible imams (except Imam Ali) whom Allah had purified from all uncleanness.

1.Tafsir of ar-Razi, vol.6 p.783, Tafsir of ibn Jarir, Musnad of Ahmed bin Hanbal, vol.4 p.107, Sunan of al-Bayhaqi, vol.2 p.14, al-Khasa’iss of an-Nassa’iy, p.33, al-Khasa’iss al-Kubra, vol.2 p.264, ar-Riyadh an-Nadhirah, vol.2 p.188, Mushkil al-Aathar, vol.1 p.324.

https://www.al-islam.org/life-fatimah-az-zahra-principal-all-women-study-and-analysis-baqir-sharif-al-qurashi/fatimahs#proofs-her-infallibility

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Fatimah’s Characteristics

Fatimah az-Zahra’ (s.a.) was different from all women in her high qualities and noble characteristics that took her to the highest rank of virtue and perfection. She was an example of her father’s morals and mentality. She resembled him in his deep faith in Allah the Almighty, asceticism, and refraining from pleasures of this life. Here, we talk about some of Fatimah’s characteristics:

Infallibility

Fatimah (s.a.) was infallible, and this is an indisputable fact. Allah had purified her from every sin and every defect, and endowed her with all virtues to make her an example for all the women of the world. She was an ideal example in faith, worship, chastity, purity, charity, and kindness to the poor and the deprived.

Proofs on her infallibility

1. The verse of purification; Allah has said,

“Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O people of the House, and to purify you a (thorough) purifying.” 33:33

The People of the House (the Ahlul Bayt) were Ali, Fatimah, al-Hasan and al-Husayn ((عليه السلام).).1

1.Tafsir of ar-Razi, vol.6 p.783, Tafsir of ibn Jarir, Musnad of Ahmed bin Hanbal, vol.4 p.107, Sunan of al-Bayhaqi, vol.2 p.14, al-Khasa’iss of an-Nassa’iy, p.33, al-Khasa’iss al-Kubra, vol.2 p.264, ar-Riyadh an-Nadhirah, vol.2 p.188, Mushkil al-Aathar, vol.1 p.324.

The verse clearly proves the infallibility and purity of these persons from every sin and vices. Allah had chosen these people to be examples for His people and guides to His obedience and pleasure. It is impossible for Allah to give sinners or guilty people this gift.

Infallibility, in its concept, definitely would not be far from the Ahlul Bayt ((عليه السلام).) who were the centers of knowledge and wisdom in Islam. For forty years, I have researched and written books on them, but I could find a slip neither in their sayings nor in their doings. Even their enemies, who were full of grudge against them, did not mention any fault or any bit of deviation about them.

Imam Ali ((عليه السلام).) says, ‘By Allah, if I am given the seven districts with all that under their skies to disobey Allah in a bran of a grain of barley that I deprive it of a mouth of a locust, I will never do.’

This far extent of piety in the imams is the very infallibility that the Shia believe to be in their imams. Anyhow, Fatimah (s.a.) was one of the fourteen infallible members of the Ahlul Bayt ((عليه السلام).).

2. The Prophet (S) made all his nation, through his repeated sayings, know that Fatimah (s.a.) was a part from him, and that whatever pleased her would please him and whatever displeased her would displease him. That she was a part from the Prophet (S) means that she was infallible since the Prophet (S) was infallible.

 

3. The true traditions that were transmitted from the Prophet (S) confirmed that Allah would be pleased with the pleasure of Fatimah (s.a.) and would be displeased with her displeasure. These traditions mean that Fatimah (s.a.) had reached a degree of faith and piety that would take her to the same rank of the infallible prophets who sincerely obeyed Allah and knew Him as He was.

4. The Prophet (S) compared his progeny to the Book of Allah as in the mutawatir (successive) tradition of “ath-Thaqalayn”, and since the Book of Allah is infallible from any falseness, so are the Ahlul Bayt ((عليه السلام).); otherwise, the Prophet (S) would not compare them to the Book of Allah. Fatimah (s.a.) was at the head of the pure progeny of the Prophet (S) and was the mother of all the infallible imams (except Imam Ali) whom Allah had purified from all uncleanness.

1.Tafsir of ar-Razi, vol.6 p.783, Tafsir of ibn Jarir, Musnad of Ahmed bin Hanbal, vol.4 p.107, Sunan of al-Bayhaqi, vol.2 p.14, al-Khasa’iss of an-Nassa’iy, p.33, al-Khasa’iss al-Kubra, vol.2 p.264, ar-Riyadh an-Nadhirah, vol.2 p.188, Mushkil al-Aathar, vol.1 p.324.

https://www.al-islam.org/life-fatimah-az-zahra-principal-all-women-study-and-analysis-baqir-sharif-al-qurashi/fatimahs#proofs-her-infallibility

 

You are so desperate to have the last word. Respond to the argument instead of copy pasting long articles

Edited by sunnism
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
On 4/7/2024 at 2:29 AM, sunnism said:

The point that not being important as inheritance doesn't prove anything. The point is fatima said that her father commanded her to do this and he went to messenger of allah to confirm. Why did he need to confirm? 

I am surprised that this guy claims to be an aaqil yet says there is no difference between two narrations (of wearing dyed clothes / prophets leaving no inheritence) interms of their importance of who the audience shall be?

Why Ali (عليه السلام) needed to confirm is not related by any means to this discussion. When he heard hadith, he went to confirm. Didn't get angry to stopped speaking to Fatimah (عليه السلام) till his death. Two entirely different things

On 4/7/2024 at 2:29 AM, sunnism said:

That's just an assumption. 

not an assumption we have bunch of traditions on merits of Imams (عليه السلام) and this hadith just doesn't fit them also differences in narrations due to taqqiyah is not an assumption rather well established fact in shia hadith.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
Posted (edited)
Quote

It amazes you because you have apre concieved notion that fatima must knew every single thing. All these are emotional arguments. Nothing else. Again circular logic. 

It amaze me how you could accept that the prophet daughter did not know a simple rule before she goes talk about it in public. And far more than this is that you know that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is the best judge and knowledge about all of these rulings, and you think that before Fatima goes to Abu Bakr, she did not talk about the inheritance to her husband before going?

Is not emotional argument, it is valid argument.

Quote

It amazes you because you have apre concieved notion that fatima must knew every single thing

I don't have preconceived notion in this, because from my perspective I have evidence from my books that she knew the rulings.

Quote

More than once? Prove it. As far as turning away from points, then you all done this. In one of my threads about imamah, none of them dared to touched the second point. 

Keep telling to yourself that you refuted us if it that make you feel better.

Quote

Oh really then how about this

 

62:2

هُوَ ٱلَّذِى بَعَثَ فِى ٱلْأُمِّيِّـۧنَ رَسُولًۭا مِّنْهُمْ يَتْلُوا۟ عَلَيْهِمْ ءَايَـٰتِهِۦ وَيُزَكِّيهِمْ وَيُعَلِّمُهُمُ ٱلْكِتَـٰبَ وَٱلْحِكْمَةَ وَإِن كَانُوا۟ مِن قَبْلُ لَفِى ضَلَـٰلٍۢ مُّبِينٍۢ ٢

 

He is the One Who raised for the illiterate ˹people˺ a messenger from among themselves—reciting to them His revelations, purifying them, and teaching them the Book and wisdom, for indeed they had previously been clearly astray—

 

Getting purified by messenger of allah means purified by allah. 

:hahaha: I feel like you are so despair trying to find any verse to fit your narrative. Again this has nothing to do with the properties of 33:33, where 62:2 is an progress of no guarantee that they will be in that state of purification, while 33:33 guarantees that they will be always be in state of purification and no sin will touch them.

Edited by Abu Nur
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

There was at least one companion who became a murtad as confirmed by some sunni scholars. I won't give a name now, but I think everyone here knows who he/she was. So how is this "purification" in surah al-jummaah the same as surah al-ahzab when it comes the the topic of purification? Makes no sense to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member

the details about inheritance of daughters can be seen at the given link:

Shia Pen

If any one thinks otherwise that prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) does not leave inheritance then it requires a verse of quran in clear words that the verses of inheritance are not applicable to the prophet s.aw. 

Just spreading mere conjectures in this matter stands rejected by followers of ahl alabayat of the prophet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Basic Members
On 4/6/2024 at 7:12 PM, sunnism said:

 

وقدم عليٌّ من اليمنِ ببُدنِ النبيِّ صلَّى اللهُ عليه وسلَّمَ . فوجد فاطمةَ رضي اللهُ عنها ممن حلَّ . ولبست ثيابًا صبيغًا . واكتحلَت . فأنكر ذلك عليها . فقالت : إنَّ أبي أمرني بهذا . قال : فكان عليٌّ يقول بالعراقِ : فذهبتُ إلى رسولِ اللهِ صلَّى اللهُ عليه وسلَّمَ مُحَرِّشًا على فاطمةَ . للذي صنعت . مُستفتيًا رسولَ اللهِ صلَّى اللهُ عليه وسلَّمَ فيما ذكرتْ عنه . فأخبرتُه أني أنكرت ُذلك عليها . فقال : صدقتْ صدقت ْ.

 

[…(In a long narration he says)…`Ali came from the Yemen with the sacrificial animals for the Prophet (May peace be upon him) and found Fatimah (Allah be pleased with her) to be one among those who had put-off Ihram and had put on dyed clothes and had applied antimony. He (`Ali) showed disapproval to it, whereupon she said: My father has commanded me to do this. He (the narrator) said that `Ali used to say in `Iraq: I went to the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) showing annoyance at Fatimah for what she had done, and asked the (verdict) of Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) regarding what she had narrated from him, and told him that I was angry with her, whereupon he said: She has told the truth, she has told the truth.]

al-Tusi:

 

محمد بن علي بن محبوب عن يعقوب بن يزيد عن ابن أبي عمير عن معاوية بن عمار عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام ومحمد بن الحسين وعلي بن السندي والعباس كلهم عن صفوان عن معاوية بن عمار عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام

 

Narrates it in al-Tahdheeb and al-Amali, his chains are as follows:

 

1- Muhammad bin `Ali bin Mahboub, from Ya`qoub bin Yazid, from ibn abi `Umayr, from Mu`awiyah bin `Ammar, from abi `Abdillah (as)…

2- Muhammad bin Husayn, and `Ali bin al-Sindi, and al-`Abbas, all of them, from Safwan, from Mu`awiyah bin `Ammar, from abi `Abdillah (as)…

As far as prophet not telling the family about it, then that can be also used against you. You believe that fatima was gifted the property of farak. Why didn't anyone among the wives knew this, that they also demanded their own share from abu bakr. As far as abbas is concerned then that is also against you. Since abbas asked his own share from the property. That means he also have no idea that prophet gifted fatima a property which he also is entitled to inherit. 

The quoted hadith has majaheel in it. So this hadith is majhul as per standards. 

Can you please provide the link or reference where shaykh Al-Tusi cited this hadith in tahdhib al-ahkam? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
11 hours ago, awais12 said:

The quoted hadith has majaheel in it. So this hadith is majhul as per standards. 

Can you please provide the link or reference where shaykh Al-Tusi cited this hadith in tahdhib al-ahkam? 

Salam it has been provided by @145_turbo_16V in below hread to trolling of @sunnism by misrepresenting this hadith in multiple threads due to his biased misunderstanding from it . 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
On 4/10/2024 at 2:07 AM, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

Why Ali (عليه السلام) needed to confirm is not related by any means to this discussion. When he heard hadith, he went to confirm. Didn't get angry to stopped speaking to Fatimah (عليه السلام) till his death. Two entirely different things

Read the narration again. It says he went to messenger of allah to confirm and got annoyed at fatima. 

 

On 4/10/2024 at 11:57 AM, Abu Nur said:

It amaze me how you could accept that the prophet daughter did not know a simple rule before she goes talk about it in public. And far more than this is that you know that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is the best judge and knowledge about all of these rulings, and you think that before Fatima goes to Abu Bakr, she did not talk about the inheritance to her husband before going?

Is not emotional argument, it is valid argument

It doesn't make sense to you because you presuppose that fatima must know every single ruling. It is well established that many hadith didn't reached many great companions. 

 

On 4/10/2024 at 11:57 AM, Abu Nur said:

I don't have preconceived notion in this, because from my perspective I have evidence from my books that she knew the rulings

Thats not an argument. I have many narrations in my books where great knowledgeable companions which include ali, not aware of a particular narration. In those times, they don't have books of hadith like we have now. 

 

On 4/10/2024 at 11:57 AM, Abu Nur said:

I feel like you are so despair trying to find any verse to fit your narrative. Again this has nothing to do with the properties of 33:33, where 62:2 is an progress of no guarantee that they will be in that state of purification, while 33:33 guarantees that they will be always be in state of purification and no sin will touch them.

Doesn't matter. If we take purification as being infallible then we have to believe that companions were infallible until the messenger of allah was alive. Because the verse says that prophet recite the book and purify them. That means until the prophet was alive and teaching them quran, they were infallible. Simple as that. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
On 4/12/2024 at 12:44 AM, 145_turbo_16V said:

There was at least one companion who became a murtad as confirmed by some sunni scholars. I won't give a name now, but I think everyone here knows who he/she was. So how is this "purification" in surah al-jummaah the same as surah al-ahzab when it comes the the topic of purification? Makes no sense to me.

His name was ubaydullah bin jahsh. The verse was to refute the shia argument that purification = infalliblity. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
On 4/15/2024 at 11:31 PM, awais12 said:

The quoted hadith has majaheel in it. So this hadith is majhul as per standards. 

Can you please provide the link or reference where shaykh Al-Tusi cited this hadith in tahdhib al-ahkam? 

It is given above. Look it up

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member
On 4/15/2024 at 9:15 PM, Muslim2010 said:

the details about inheritance of daughters can be seen at the given link:

Shia Pen

If any one thinks otherwise that prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) does not leave inheritance then it requires a verse of quran in clear words that the verses of inheritance are not applicable to the prophet s.aw. 

Just spreading mere conjectures in this matter stands rejected by followers of ahl alabayat of the prophet.

The truth always prevails. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

The purification in 9:100 of the sahaba is not the same as the one in 33:33. Proof to me one of the 5 under the cloak referred in 33:33 became a murtad. Ubaydullah bin Jash proves that the explanation for 9:100, that all of them were blessed and purified, committed mistakes but ultimately got Jannah is false. This is to refute of the argument that as sahaba kulluhom udool.

If, for arguments sakes, what happened to Ubaydullah Bin Jash refutes the argument for 33:33 (that the people of the cloak are purified), then it refutes 9:100 as well. But for you, it only refutes 33:33.  Here it shows not only can they commit sins, they commit sins and it’s possible that they NEVER come back to the straight path.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
6 hours ago, 145_turbo_16V said:

The purification in 9:100 of the sahaba is not the same as the one in 33:33. Proof to me one of the 5 under the cloak referred in 33:33 became a murtad. Ubaydullah bin Jash proves that the explanation for 9:100, that all of them were blessed and purified, committed mistakes but ultimately got Jannah is false. This is to refute of the argument that as sahaba kulluhom udool.

The verse he is talking about is not 9:100. And he is not talking about whether purification in this verse is different than purification in that verse. He is saying purification doesn't mean infallibility.

As far as adalah sahabah. Then it is a quranic reality that all companions(not the hypocrites and apostates since they don't fit in the sunni definition of sahabah, so ubaydullah bin jahsh isn't a sahabi in sunni terminology) are in jannah. And it is thousand times stronger than the belief of imamah and ismah of imams. Sunnis can prove their creed solely from quran. All they need their ahadith is for establishing who those sahabah are and the sahaba sunnis consider virtuous did not apostated. While shia needs their ahadith to establish the concept of 12 imams after the prophet. Huge difference. You cannot prove imamah from quran not you an prove purification means infalliblity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member
On 4/20/2024 at 9:54 PM, Qadri_01 said:

Then it is a quranic reality that all companions(not the hypocrites and apostates since they don't fit in the sunni definition of sahabah, so ubaydullah bin jahsh isn't a sahabi in sunni terminology) are in jannah. And it is thousand times stronger than the belief of imamah and ismah of imams. Sunnis can prove their creed solely from quran

 :salam:

Brother, the way 'we cannot prove' who Ahl al bait refer to in the ayat of purification - does it only apply to the 5 of the cloak or does it include the wives - making our credo batil ; well 'you cannot prove'  whom of the people mentioned in the ayat of under the tree are actually believers and not future apostates and hypocrites, making your credo batil. 

You definitely should manage your standards of logic because from a strictly logos POV - I am not that interested in ahadith or history - your arguments are just not receivable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)
On 4/19/2024 at 4:57 PM, sunnism said:

Doesn't matter. If we take purification as being infallible then we have to believe that companions were infallible until the messenger of allah was alive. Because the verse says that prophet recite the book and purify them. That means until the prophet was alive and teaching them quran, they were infallible. Simple as that. 

Salam all companions have at least some sins since birth before & after converting to Islam which prophet Muhammad (pbu) has purified them from their previous sins before  & after converting to Islam but the so called companions have committed sins after demise of prophet Muhammad (pbu) so then have not been purified by him anymore so therefor all so called companions have been fallible beings even at  time of presence of Prophet Muhammad (pbu) between them but on the other hand infallibles including prophet Muhammad (pbu) , Lady Fatima (عليه السلام) & Amir al-muminin Imam Ali (عليه السلام) Imam Hasan (عليه السلام) & Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) & rest of nine infallible Imams from progeny of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) have not committed any sin since birth in any condition  also they have been purified by Allah so therefore their infallibility is not related to a specific time likewise era of prophet Muhammad (pbu) which  Lady Fatima (عليه السلام) & Amir al-Muminin Imam Ali (عليه السلام) never committed any sin since birth even before announcing prophethood by prophet Muahmmad (pbu) which they have not committed any sin rafter demise of prophet Muhammad (pbu) & remained infallible .

 

On 4/19/2024 at 4:57 PM, sunnism said:

Thats not an argument. I have many narrations in my books where great knowledgeable companions which include ali, not aware of a particular narration. In those times, they don't have books of hadith like we have now. 

Your books are full of fabrications against Amir al-Muminin Imam Ali (عليه السلام) due to enmity of so called companions & followers of cursed Umayyads who have fabricated many narrations against him & denying divine  knowledge of Amir al-Muminin Imam Ali (عليه السلام) which even fair sunnis agree that Prophet Muhammad (pbu) has said that he is city of knowledge & Amir al-Muminin Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is gate of this city . 

On 4/19/2024 at 4:57 PM, sunnism said:

It doesn't make sense to you because you presuppose that fatima must know every single ruling. It is well established that many hadith didn't reached many great companions. 

 

Your whole argument are based on forged  narrations for defaming lady Fatima (sa) Amir al-Muminin Imam Ali (عليه السلام) by their enemies which even it doesn't mention not knowing rulings by lady Fatima (sa) but just shows obeying order of prophet Muhammad (pbu) by her which ending paragraph of narration is proof of total similarity between prophet Muhammad (pbu) & Amir al-Muminin Imam Ali (عليه السلام) except in being prophet  which both of them have ended Hajj together while Amir al-Muminin Imam Ali (عليه السلام) has been only companion & successor of prophet Muhammad (pbu) in finishing sacrifice & finalizing Hajj together   in end of your mentioned Hadith . 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
On 4/20/2024 at 11:24 PM, Qadri_01 said:

As far as adalah sahabah. Then it is a quranic reality

Salam when you have said that there has been hypocrites and apostates between them so therefore it has invalidated their  Adalah from holy Quran 

On 4/20/2024 at 11:24 PM, Qadri_01 said:

(not the hypocrites and apostates since they don't fit in the sunni definition of sahabah, so ubaydullah bin jahsh isn't a sahabi in sunni terminology) are in jannah.

which your claim is based on   verse 9:40  & verse 9:100 which so called  merit of Abubakr in verse 9:40 has been refuted countless times so therefore is not a proof for Adlah of Sahaba.

 

Quote

"If you do not aid the Prophet - Allah has already aided him when those who disbelieved had driven him out [of Makkah] as one of two, when they were in the cave and he said to his companion, "Do not grieve; indeed Allah is with us." And Allah sent down his tranquillity upon him and supported him with angels you did not see and made the word of those who disbelieved the lowest, while the word of Allah - that is the highest. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise."

This Verse has no praise to the person who was with the Prophet in the cave. In fact it has negative points against him.

1. He was feeling sad despite being with the Prophet in the same place, which was wrong feeling and the Prophet told him: Do not grieve. He was wrong in grieving.

2. Allah sent His tranquility on the Prophet only and not on that person which means that he was not entitled to get the tranquility from Allah. Allah mentioned in Quran that: He sent tranquility on the believers. (Al-Fath, 4). 

It worth mentioning that there is no authentic evidence that the person was Abu Bakr, on the contrary there are Hadeeths in Sunni books that Ab Bakr was in Madina during the journey of the Prophet from Makkah to Madina.

There is nice books written by Shaikh Najaah Al-Taa'ee in this subject.

Many Sunni scholars have stated that this verse does not have praise to the person who was with the Prophet in the cave.

Wassalam

Quote
 
Sayyed Mohammad Al-Musawi, Sayyed Mohammad al-Musawi is originally from Iraq and heads up the World Ahlul Bayt Islamic League in London. Other than being involved in various humanitarian projects, he frequently responds to...Answer updated 4 years ago
12-sayyed_mohammad_al-musawi-631.png?itok=IsUiHj7Y

https://www.al-islam.org/ask/is-it-true-that-allah-(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)-has-praised-abu-bakr-in-verse-9-40-of-the-quran

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
On 4/20/2024 at 11:24 PM, Qadri_01 said:

The verse he is talking about is not 9:100. And he is not talking about whether purification in this verse is different than purification in that verse. He is saying purification doesn't mean infallibility.

 

 

When Allah states: 9:100 And those who preceded (in belief), FROM AMONG Immigrants and Helpers and those who followed them in what was good, Allah * WAS * satisfied with them; He has prepared for them gardens under which rivers flow to dwell therein for ever.

That is the great felicity. 9:101 And (however) among the ARABS AROUND YOU ARE HYPOCRITES, and also among the people of Madina (there are some who) persist in hypocrisy whom you (O Muhammad) DO NOT KNOW. We, We know them, and We shall punish them twice; then they will be sent to a painful doom. The above verses show that:

1- Allah WAS satisfied with them, but may not be applicable later.

2- Allah addressing those who preceded in belief from among them, thus it means He is not addressing all of the companions.

3- Immediately in the next verse, Allah talks about the hypocrites arround Prophet who pretend to be his sincere companions and even Prophet does not know them according to the above verse.

This is in conformity with the traditions of Sahih al-Bukhari mentioned above that Allah will say to His Prophet that "You do not know what these companions have done after you left them." Of course, there are verses in Quran in which Allah uses past tense verb, but it is intended as present and/or future tense verb.

However it is not always the case.

There are many verses in Quran in which Allah clearly states that He changes His decisions in time based on our actions at each instant of time. Allah is not in the domain of time, but He has ability to change his decision in the dimension of time. Of course He previously know what He will to change later, and He has the foreknowledge of every thing. He does not treat a believer in a bad manner today, even though He knows that this believer will become apostate tomorrow. To clarify this point, please see verses of Quran such as 8:65-66, 7:153, 16:110, 16:119, 13:11,

in which Allah clearly states He changes His decision based on our behavior. You can locate many verses like these in Quran. Thus Allah's judgment about human beings changes in time according to our actions. If we do something good, He will get please with us, and then if we do something bad, He gets angry from us, and so on. Companions are not exempt from this rule. Any body who does good deeds, Allah was pleased with him, no matter if he was companion or not. Allah is JUST. He does not discriminate between companion and others who live at this time. No body is guaranteed to go to paradise if he or she does wrong things, kills innocents,... . Otherwise Allah is not just. Allah states in Quran that "Every body is responsible for what he has done." (Quran 74:38). Allah Also states: "Fulfill your propmise, so that I fullfill My Promise." (Quran 2:40).

Thus even if we assume for the sake of argument that the verse 9:100 implies "all" the companions have been promised Paradise, the verse 2:40 clearly states that if those people break their convenant after the death of the messenger of Allah and kill innocents, then Allah will not fulfill His promise for them either.

Let us also look at the following Quranic verses which clearly shows that even a person with high virtues who deserves paradise, can BURN OUT all his good deeds (Habt of Amal) at once! So never judge people for their early good work (if any . We should always look at the final result of each person. Even prophet didn't know what will be his destiny till he died (i.e., till he passed his final exam because he had freedom to do wrong things too. Allah said: "(O Prophet) If you ascribe a partner to Allah, your work will BURN OUT, and you will be among the losers." (Quran 39:65) If prophet's deeds are in danger of BURNING, it is clear how to judge for the companions.

Of course prophet did not burn out his deeds, but there was potential of danger of burning for him too. Allah also said: "And if any of you turn back from their faith and die in disbelief, their works BURN OUT and will be of no use in this world and Hereafter, and they will be companions of Fire for ever." (Quran 2:217)

He, Exalted, also said: "Those who become unbeliever after they have been believer, and grow violent in disbelief, their repentance will not be accepted and such people are those who go astray." (Quran 3:90)

He also said: "On that day (Doomsday) some faces will be bright and some faces will be dark. To those whose faces will be dark (will be said:) Did you reject faith after accepting it? Taste the penalty for rejecting faith!" (Quran 3:106) Allah also said: "Those who believe, then reject faith, then believe (again), and then reject faith (again) and go on in disbelief, Allah will not forgive them nor guide them on the way." (Quran 4:137)

So it is quite possible for a believer whom Allah is satisfied with him, to become unbeliever tomorrow. Otherwise if somebody is promised that Allah is satisfied with him for ever and unconditionally (no mater he kills innocents or does any other wrong thing later), then it means that he is no longer under the test of Allah, which is in contradiction with several verses of Quran.

http://www.shiastudy.ir/en/shia-studies/shia-theological-schools/a-shiite-view-of-the-companions

 

https://cims.almahdi.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/10-Sahaba-Sunni-view-edited.pdf

 

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235014524-a-question-to-shia-on-quran-9100/

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)
On 4/20/2024 at 11:24 PM, Qadri_01 said:

Sunnis can prove their creed solely from quran. All they need their ahadith is for establishing who those sahabah are and the sahaba sunnis consider virtuous did not apostated.

prove your void claim instead of parroting  nonsense .

On 4/20/2024 at 11:24 PM, Qadri_01 said:

. While shia needs their ahadith to establish the concept of 12 imams after the prophet. Huge difference. You cannot prove imamah from quran not you an prove purification means infalliblity.

We have proven it countless times from holy Quran even from your so called Sahih books . here is few examples 

 Imamah In The Qur’an

Imamah And Khilafah

Murtadha Mutahhari

https://www.al-islam.org/imamah-and-khilafah-murtadha-mutahhari/imamah-quran

https://www.sibtayn.com/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4950:chapter-36-imamat-in-the-quran&catid=447&Itemid=622

The Concept of Imamah and Khilafah from the Quranic Perspective

Mahmood Jawaid

https://www.academia.edu/44144117/The_Concept_of_Imamah_and_Khilafah_from_the_Quranic_Perspective

The Qur’an and Imamate

https://en.al-shia.org/the-quran-and-imamate/

Quran 38:26: Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) chooses those in Authority

Reference: Quran: Saad 38:26

Quran 32:24: Allah appoints the Imams, and they guide by His command

Reference: Quran: As-Sajdah 32:24

 

Imam Ali by name in the Quran
 
Quran 26:83-84: Ibrahim asks Allah for a "Tongue of Truthfulness" among future generations.
Translation: Arberry & Saheeh International

[Abraham says:] My Lord, give me Judgment, and join me with the righteous,

 

and appoint me a tongue of truthfulness among the later generations.

رَبِّ هَبْ لِى حُكْمًۭا وَأَلْحِقْنِى بِٱلصَّلِحِينَ

وَٱجْعَل لِّى لِسَانَ صِدْقٍۢ فِى ٱلْءَاخِرِينَ

 
 
 

Note: Tongue of Truthfulness is a verbatim transation.

 
 
 
Quran 19:49-50: Allah responds: and We appointed unto them a tongue of truthfulness, Ali-ya
Translation: Arberry

So when he had left them and those they worshipped other than Allah, We gave him Isaac and Jacob, and each [of them] We made a prophet.

 

and We gave them of Our mercy, and We appointed unto them a tongue of truthfulness, Ali-ya.

 

فَلَمَّا ٱعْتَزَلَهُمْ وَمَا يَعْبُدُونَ مِن دُونِ ٱللَّهِ وَهَبْنَا لَهُۥٓ إِسْحَقَ وَيَعْقُوبَ ۖ وَكُلًّۭا جَعَلْنَا نَبِيًّۭا

وَوَهَبْنَا لَهُم مِّن رَّحْمَتِنَا وَجَعَلْنَا لَهُمْ لِسَانَ صِدْقٍ عَلِيًّۭا

 
Reference  : Quran: Maryam 19:49-50
 
 

Note: 1. Ali-ya is translated by Arberry as sublime, but we see from the previous verse (19:49) that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) mentions Isaac and Jacob by name, and therefore can infer that Ali-ya is indeed the name of Imam Ali.

2. A sublime or high tongue of truthfulness (لِسَانَ صِدْقٍ عَلِيًّۭا) is not an idiom or expression used in vernacular, poetic nor historical Arabic. Therefore, it must be a name.

3. Inventing an idiom could contradict Quran 12:2

4. Why is not more explicit? Mu'awiyah invoked the "Sunnah" of cursing Imam Ali from the pulpit during Jummah prayers every Friday. This sunnah continued for approximately 70 years and would have resulted in the Quran being changed by Banu Ummayah.

https://islamictheology.com/imamah.html#!

 

 

 

 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...