Salam, what does this Hadith mean and why would we be told to do this?

[HSM]

The Messenger of Allah (alug ig de aül

do) said: "When

you will find people of bid'

*ah (innovation) and

doubt/suspicion after me, do baraa' (disassociation) from them and increase in your insults (sabihim) to them, and oppose (them) and bring evidences against them so they may not become greedy in bringing fasaad (corruption) to Islam. You must warn people against them and do not learn their bid'ah (innovation). Allah will write for you hasanaat (good deeds) for this, and will raise you darajaat (levels) in the next life.'

Source:

1. Al-Kulayni, Al-Kaafi, vol. 2, ch. 159, pg. 375, hadeeth # 4

Grading:

1. Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is SaHeeH (Authentic)

à Mir'aat Al-'Uqool, vol. 11, pg. 77

[In Gods Name]

I wonder if this refers to:

-Those who advocate making Dua directly for needs to GhairAllah

-Delaying Maghrib

-Denying the increased thawab of separating Salah

-Adding the 3rd Shahdah in the Adhan

-Self-harm rituals

-Claiming Ziyarah to Imam Hussain is not only Wajib, but better than one million Hajj

 

I am not claiming one thing or the other, i just wonder if these things would be what is referred to indirectly of course?

[Shian e Ali]

3 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

I wonder if this refers to:

-Those who advocate making Dua directly for needs to GhairAllah

-Delaying Maghrib

-Denying the increased thawab of separating Salah

-Adding the 3rd Shahdah in the Adhan

-Self-harm rituals

-Claiming Ziyarah to Imam Hussain is not only Wajib, but better than one million Hajj

 

I am not claiming one thing or the other, i just wonder if these things would be what is referred to indirectly of course?

I'm wondering what you mean by delaying Maghreb. Can you expand? Also, it's funny how you picked and chose everything Shi'a. 

[Ibn Tayyar]

7 hours ago, HSM said:

The Messenger of Allah (alug ig de aül

do) said: "When

you will find people of bid'

*ah (innovation) and

doubt/suspicion after me, do baraa' (disassociation) from them and increase in your insults (sabihim) to them, and oppose (them) and bring evidences against them so they may not become greedy in bringing fasaad (corruption) to Islam. You must warn people against them and do not learn their bid'ah (innovation). Allah will write for you hasanaat (good deeds) for this, and will raise you darajaat (levels) in the next life.'

Source:

1. Al-Kulayni, Al-Kaafi, vol. 2, ch. 159, pg. 375, hadeeth # 4

Grading:

1. Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is SaHeeH (Authentic)

à Mir'aat Al-'Uqool, vol. 11, pg. 77

It means that we have to show bara'ah from the people of innovation, and to expose their bid'ah and expose them, and insulting them is one of the methods of showing your bara'ah. Deterring a person's bid'ah or deterring people from following a person's bid'ah will result in a great reward for the deterrer.

It is also an example of nahi an al munkar, as bid'ah is one of the ultimate forms of munkar. It also shows that the mubtad'i (innovator) does not have the same sanctity as the mu'min, whom insulting him is haram. 

You shouldn't have love in your heart for the kufr of the kafirs, the deviance of the deviants, the innovation of the innovator, and the fisq of the fasiqs.

Edited April 2, 2024 by Ibn Tayyar

[Ashvazdanghe]

4 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

Denying the increased thawab of separating Salah

Salam this is just your innovation which according to shia muslims every Salah has seperate Thawab whether you separate Salah or not .

4 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

-Those who advocate making Dua directly for needs to GhairAllah

This is your baseless accusation against Shia muslims.

4 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

Adding the 3rd Shahdah in the Adhan

It's just a recommended thing not Wajib .

4 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

Claiming Ziyarah to Imam Hussain is not only Wajib, but better than one million Hajj

Yo hate this Zyarah because of darkness of your heart & soul so therefore you have opposed it.

 

4 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

Self-harm rituals

It's not common ritual which only a grouplet insist of doing it but you have generalized it about whole of Shia muslims.

[علوي]

On 4/2/2024 at 4:31 PM, In Gods Name said:

-Those who advocate making Dua directly for needs to GhairAllah

We ask them for intercession, just as Allah explains in verses such as 4:64. And the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) clarified tawassul and shafa'a in his ahadith. We don't treat the awliya as entities with power independent of Allah; rather their power is fully dependent on the power of Allah. And tawassul and shafa'a are Quranic concepts:

أَغْنَاهُمُ اللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ مِنْ فَضْلِهِ
Allah and His Apostle had enriched them out of His grace [9:74]

وَلَوْ أَنَّهُمْ رَضُوا مَا آتَاهُمُ اللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ وَقَالُوا حَسْبُنَا اللَّهُ سَيُؤْتِينَا اللَّهُ مِنْ فَضْلِهِ وَرَسُولُهُ إِنَّا إِلَى اللَّهِ رَاغِبُونَ
[It would have been better] if they had been pleased with what Allah and His Apostle gave them, and had said, ‘Allah is sufficient for us; Allah and His Apostle will give to us out of His grace. Indeed to Allah do we eagerly turn.’ [9:59]

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا اتَّقُوا اللَّهَ وَابْتَغُوا إِلَيْهِ الْوَسِيلَةَ
O you who have faith! Be wary of Allah, and seek the means of recourse to Him [5:35]

And check out this hadith in Sunan ibn Majah:

Quote

حَدَّثَنَا أَحْمَدُ بْنُ مَنْصُورِ بْنِ سَيَّارٍ، حَدَّثَنَا عُثْمَانُ بْنُ عُمَرَ، حَدَّثَنَا شُعْبَةُ، عَنْ أَبِي جَعْفَرٍ الْمَدَنِيِّ، عَنْ عُمَارَةَ بْنِ خُزَيْمَةَ بْنِ ثَابِتٍ، عَنْ عُثْمَانَ بْنِ حُنَيْفٍ، أَنَّ رَجُلاً، ضَرِيرَ الْبَصَرِ أَتَى النَّبِيَّ ـ صلى الله عليه وسلم ـ فَقَالَ ادْعُ اللَّهَ لِي أَنْ يُعَافِيَنِي ‏.‏ فَقَالَ ‏"‏ إِنْ شِئْتَ أَخَّرْتُ لَكَ وَهُوَ خَيْرٌ وَإِنْ شِئْتَ دَعَوْتُ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ فَقَالَ ادْعُهْ ‏.‏ فَأَمَرَهُ أَنْ يَتَوَضَّأَ فَيُحْسِنَ وُضُوءَهُ وَيُصَلِّيَ رَكْعَتَيْنِ وَيَدْعُوَ بِهَذَا الدُّعَاءِ ‏"‏ اللَّهُمَّ إِنِّي أَسْأَلُكَ وَأَتَوَجَّهُ إِلَيْكَ بِمُحَمَّدٍ نَبِيِّ الرَّحْمَةِ يَا مُحَمَّدُ إِنِّي قَدْ تَوَجَّهْتُ بِكَ إِلَى رَبِّي فِي حَاجَتِي هَذِهِ لِتُقْضَى اللَّهُمَّ فَشَفِّعْهُ فِيَّ ‏"‏ ‏.‏
It was narrated from ‘Uthman bin Hunaif that a blind man came to the Prophet (ﷺ) and said: “Pray to Allah to heal me.” He said: “If you wish to store your reward for the Hereafter, that is better, or if you wish, I will supplicate for you.” He said: “Supplicate.” So he told him to perform ablution and do it well, and to pray two Rak’ah, and to say this supplication: “O Allah, I ask of You and I turn my face towards You by virtue of the intercession of Muhammad the Prophet of mercy. O Muhammad, I have turned to my Lord by virtue of your intercession concerning this need of mine so that it may be met. O Allah, accept his intercession concerning me”.
Sunan Ibn Majah 1385
https://sunnah.com/ibnmajah:1385

And that's all from Sunni ahadith. I haven't even started getting into shi'ite ahadith.

There's nothing wrong with invoking awliya' Allah as a means of recourse (waseela) to Him.

On 4/2/2024 at 4:31 PM, In Gods Name said:

-Delaying Maghrib

What do you mean? We don't delay maghrib. Maghrib means sunset.

On 4/2/2024 at 4:31 PM, In Gods Name said:

-Denying the increased thawab of separating Salah

Of course, the thawab lies in separation. But that doesn't prohibit combination. The Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) used to combine salah. Check out this hadith in Sahih al-Bukhari.

Quote

حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو النُّعْمَانِ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا حَمَّادٌ ـ هُوَ ابْنُ زَيْدٍ ـ عَنْ عَمْرِو بْنِ دِينَارٍ، عَنْ جَابِرِ بْنِ زَيْدٍ، عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ، أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم صَلَّى بِالْمَدِينَةِ سَبْعًا وَثَمَانِيًا الظُّهْرَ وَالْعَصْرَ، وَالْمَغْرِبَ وَالْعِشَاءَ‏.‏ فَقَالَ أَيُّوبُ لَعَلَّهُ فِي لَيْلَةٍ مَطِيرَةٍ‏.‏ قَالَ عَسَى‏.‏
Narrated Ibn `Abbas: "The Prophet (ﷺ) prayed eight rak`at for the Zuhr and `Asr, and seven for the Maghrib and `Isha prayers in Medina." Aiyub said, "Perhaps those were rainy nights." Anas said, "May be."
Sahih al-Bukhari 543
https://sunnah.com/bukhari:543

Eight rak'at for zuhr and asr? Zuhr has 4 rak'at. Asr has 4 rak'at. If they were prayed separately, it they wouldn't need to be added. But the Prophet prayed 8 rak'at, meaning he combined Zuhr and Asr (because, in case you didn't notice, 4+4=8. Just to absolutely clarify). Same deal with Maghrib and Isha.

"But wait! That's only when it was raining!"

Hmm. Tirmidhi and Nasa'i seem to disagree with you. 

Quote

حَدَّثَنَا هَنَّادٌ، حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو مُعَاوِيَةَ، عَنِ الأَعْمَشِ، عَنْ حَبِيبِ بْنِ أَبِي ثَابِتٍ، عَنْ سَعِيدِ بْنِ جُبَيْرٍ، عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ، قَالَ جَمَعَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم بَيْنَ الظُّهْرِ وَالْعَصْرِ وَبَيْنَ الْمَغْرِبِ وَالْعِشَاءِ بِالْمَدِينَةِ مِنْ غَيْرِ خَوْفٍ وَلاَ مَطَرٍ ‏.‏ قَالَ فَقِيلَ لاِبْنِ عَبَّاسٍ مَا أَرَادَ بِذَلِكَ قَالَ أَرَادَ أَنْ لاَ يُحْرِجَ أُمَّتَهُ ‏.‏ وَفِي الْبَابِ عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ ‏.‏ قَالَ أَبُو عِيسَى حَدِيثُ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ قَدْ رُوِيَ عَنْهُ مِنْ غَيْرِ وَجْهٍ رَوَاهُ جَابِرُ بْنُ زَيْدٍ وَسَعِيدُ بْنُ جُبَيْرٍ وَعَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ شَقِيقٍ الْعُقَيْلِيُّ ‏.‏ وَقَدْ رُوِيَ عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم غَيْرُ هَذَا ‏.‏
Ibn Abbas said: "Allah's Messenger combined the Zuhr and Asr (prayers), and the Maghrib and Isha (prayers) in Al-Madinah, without being in a state of fear, nor due to rain."
Jami` at-Tirmidhi 187
https://sunnah.com/tirmidhi:187

There you go. "WITHOUT BEING IN A STATE OF FEAR, NOR DUE TO RAIN." 

And here's the hadith in Nasa'i:

Quote

أَخْبَرَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ عَبْدِ الْعَزِيزِ بْنِ أَبِي رِزْمَةَ، - وَاسْمُهُ غَزْوَانُ - قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا الْفَضْلُ بْنُ مُوسَى، عَنِ الأَعْمَشِ، عَنْ حَبِيبِ بْنِ أَبِي ثَابِتٍ، عَنْ سَعِيدِ بْنِ جُبَيْرٍ، عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ، أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم كَانَ يُصَلِّي بِالْمَدِينَةِ يَجْمَعُ بَيْنَ الصَّلاَتَيْنِ بَيْنَ الظُّهْرِ وَالْعَصْرِ وَالْمَغْرِبِ وَالْعِشَاءِ مِنْ غَيْرِ خَوْفٍ وَلاَ مَطَرٍ ‏.‏ قِيلَ لَهُ لِمَ قَالَ لِئَلاَّ يَكُونَ عَلَى أُمَّتِهِ حَرَجٌ ‏.‏
It was narrated from Ibn 'Abbas that the Prophet (ﷺ) used to pray in Al-Madinah combining two prayer. Joining Zuhr and 'Asr, and Maghrib and 'Isha', when there was no fear nor rain. It was said to him: "Why?" He said: "So that there would not be any hardship on his Ummah."
Sunan an-Nasa'i 602
https://sunnah.com/nasai:602

There you go. The Prophet used to combine salah. 

On 4/2/2024 at 4:31 PM, In Gods Name said:

-Adding the 3rd Shahdah in the Adhan

It's not wajib; it's not actually part of the azan. It's just recommended. So we didn't add anything.

Why don't you talk about Omar ibn al-Khattab and his innovations? Like how he added "الصَّلاَةُ خَيْرٌ مِنَ النَّوْمِ" to the azan? Or how he innovated the taraweeh prayer? Or how he started the folding of hands in salah? The list goes on and on. And who follows these innovations until today? It's not the Shi'a. 

[Qadri_01]

On 4/7/2024 at 1:07 PM, علوي said:

We ask them for intercession, just as Allah explains in verses such as 4:64. And the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) clarified tawassul and shafa'a in his ahadith. We don't treat the awliya as entities with power independent of Allah; rather their power is fully dependent on the power of Allah. And tawassul and shafa'a are Quranic concepts:

أَغْنَاهُمُ اللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ مِنْ فَضْلِهِ
Allah and His Apostle had enriched them out of His grace [9:74]

وَلَوْ أَنَّهُمْ رَضُوا مَا آتَاهُمُ اللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ وَقَالُوا حَسْبُنَا اللَّهُ سَيُؤْتِينَا اللَّهُ مِنْ فَضْلِهِ وَرَسُولُهُ إِنَّا إِلَى اللَّهِ رَاغِبُونَ
[It would have been better] if they had been pleased with what Allah and His Apostle gave them, and had said, ‘Allah is sufficient for us; Allah and His Apostle will give to us out of His grace. Indeed to Allah do we eagerly turn.’ [9:59]

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا اتَّقُوا اللَّهَ وَابْتَغُوا إِلَيْهِ الْوَسِيلَةَ
O you who have faith! Be wary of Allah, and seek the means of recourse to Him [5:35]

And check out this hadith in Sunan ibn Majah:

And that's all from Sunni ahadith. I haven't even started getting into shi'ite ahadith.

There's nothing wrong with invoking awliya' Allah as a means of recourse (waseela) to Him.

What do you mean? We don't delay maghrib. Maghrib means sunset.

Of course, the thawab lies in separation. But that doesn't prohibit combination. The Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) used to combine salah. Check out this hadith in Sahih al-Bukhari.

Eight rak'at for zuhr and asr? Zuhr has 4 rak'at. Asr has 4 rak'at. If they were prayed separately, it they wouldn't need to be added. But the Prophet prayed 8 rak'at, meaning he combined Zuhr and Asr (because, in case you didn't notice, 4+4=8. Just to absolutely clarify). Same deal with Maghrib and Isha.

"But wait! That's only when it was raining!"

Hmm. Tirmidhi and Nasa'i seem to disagree with you. 

There you go. "WITHOUT BEING IN A STATE OF FEAR, NOR DUE TO RAIN." 

And here's the hadith in Nasa'i:

There you go. The Prophet used to combine salah. 

It's not wajib; it's not actually part of the azan. It's just recommended. So we didn't add anything.

Why don't you talk about Omar ibn al-Khattab and his innovations? Like how he added "الصَّلاَةُ خَيْرٌ مِنَ النَّوْمِ" to the azan? Or how he innovated the taraweeh prayer? Or how he started the folding of hands in salah? The list goes on and on. And who follows these innovations until today? It's not the Shi'a. 

The guy you are refuting is a shia. So the points regarding sayyiduna umar bin kharaab radiallahu anhu doesn't work on him.