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In the Name of God بسم الله

Dr Yassir Qadhi on unity + response IqraOnline

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As salamu alaikum 

Dr Yassir Qadhi recently released a talk on Islamic unity. The video is over 1h30mins in length and is essentially a pragmatic explanation and proposal of how to deal with differences in the ummah (link below). It focuses a lot on differences among the Ahl us Sunnah but also covers Shia-Sunni (around 40mins onwards)

 

 

Overall I find Dr Qadhi's position quite positive in light of the current polarized circumstances.

My only suggestion would be that when discussing the Shia Sunni differences one should note that the Shia generally disagree with and criticize some of the actions of some companions, but don't necessarily disrespect them. The fringe behaviour of certain groups shouldn't be presented as the standard Shiite position. However apart from this I find the video reasonable.

Sayyid Ali Imran has just released his own comments on the video. It is part of his exclusive content, if anyone isn't a member yet I highly recommend taking a membership because a lot of great content has been released in the weeks since I opened the below topic:

 

 

 

 

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Salaam,

I am keen to subscribe to IQRA Online and support brother Ali Imram whom I remember as a young Shiachatter in the in the mid 2000s.

Any plans to use a platform like Patreon? I don’t much like YouTube’s inherent goal of constantly stealing my attention so I am less inclined to visit there often. 

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10 hours ago, Abu_Zahra said:

My only suggestion would be that when discussing the Shia Sunni differences one should note that the Shia generally disagree with and criticize some of the actions of some companions, but don't necessarily disrespect them. The fringe behaviour of certain groups shouldn't be presented as the standard Shiite position. However apart from this I find the video reasonable.

 

Honestly, while i do agree there is a big effort on part of the ulema and many of the pulpit level speakers to try to be academically criticise but not abuse or insult, it's difficult.

Mu'awiyah, who no doubt was an enemy of the ahlulbayt, is openly cursed on the forum, and on pulpits, and is technically regarded as a Sahabi. Sunnis would not tolreate cursing of him.

I so i think it's better to recount his deeds and academically criticise him - and there is a lot of material to do that - and this would prove far more an effective Barra' then just lazy L'anah.

This is what we find attributed to Ali b. Abi Talib as in Nahj-ul-Balagha. 

<>

There's also the debate regarding being disingenuous. Mahdi Moderrasi appearing to peddle the crackpot conspiracy that Aisha and Hafa killed the Prophet saw, etc, wide spread beliefs that Umar burnt, kicked the door in, and even hit Sayeda Zahra sa. Views that a certain caliph liked men etc.  

<>

In my view, i think we Shias should clean up our own sect, and then where possible politically unite with Sunni groups who are amenable to defending Tawheed, the honour of the Prophet, the noble Quran, the plight of Muslims everywhere etc

Edited by In Gods Name
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26 minutes ago, In Gods Name said:

Honestly, while i do agree there is a big effort on part of the ulema and many of the pulpit level speakers to try to be academically criticise but not abuse or insult, it's difficult.

Mu'awiyah, who no doubt was an enemy of the ahlulbayt, is openly cursed on the forum, and on pulpits, and is technically regarded as a Sahabi. Sunnis would not tolreate cursing of him.

Dr Qadhi wasn't referring to Muawiyah, on whom there isn't a consensus anyway among the Ahl us Sunnah.  He specifically mentioned the first two caliphs. 

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30 minutes ago, Abu_Zahra said:

Dr Qadhi wasn't referring to Muawiyah, on whom there isn't a consensus anyway among the Ahl us Sunnah.  He specifically mentioned the first two caliphs. 

I think for Sunnis in general, they wouldn't accept cursing Mu'awiyah, or Khalid b. Walid etc.

There's a lot of criticism among Sunnis for Mu'awiyah but there's a general acceptance anyone who openly curses any Sahabi is a Fasiq.

Mo deen curses Mu'awiyah in front of Adnan Rashid and the discussion ends there.

 

Edited by In Gods Name
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1 minute ago, realizm said:

:salam:

If some Sunnis chose to twist the religion for some obscure criterion that any sahaba is pure, then be it.

That being said, may Allah curse Abu Sufyan and Mu`awia and Yazid.

Walaykumsalam,

I am no fan of Mu'awiyah at all, but we just have to choose, and on this basis, there is no hope of unity. 

Not that this is a good or bad thing, it just depends on what we want really.

I advocate criticising Mu'awiyah academically, which is a more convincing way to get to Sunnis and also a more convincing way to show the crimes of Mu'awiyah.

Edited by In Gods Name
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19 minutes ago, In Gods Name said:

Walaykumsalam,

I am no fan of Mu'awiyah at all, but we just have to choose, and on this basis, there is no hope of unity. 

Not that this is a good or bad thing, it just depends on what we want really.

I advocate criticising Mu'awiyah academically, which is a more convincing way to get to Sunnis and also a more convincing way to show the crimes of Mu'awiyah.

We shias have no problems in denouncing brothers, uncles or sons of A'imma when they were not considered trustworthy. 

I am afraid sunnism is too rigid when it comes to the purity of sahaba. It is theirs to change, not us, because any stance that will contradict them, be it academical debate or straighforward curse will always get us blacliksted anyway. So I prefer just staying on a status quo on that matter and seek other grounds for convergence.

 

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4 hours ago, realizm said:

We shias have no problems in denouncing brothers, uncles or sons of A'imma when they were not considered trustworthy. 

I am afraid sunnism is too rigid when it comes to the purity of sahaba. It is theirs to change, not us, because any stance that will contradict them, be it academical debate or straighforward curse will always get us blacliksted anyway. So I prefer just staying on a status quo on that matter and seek other grounds for convergence.

 

You're right, it is too rigid, but the moment we curse any of the sahaba, there is no hope for unity.

If we put cursing to the side an engage in academic criticism, this would still allow for unity and be a more convincing way to criticise someone.

In my view in todays day i honestly think cursing can hijack legitimate criticism. Nobody focuses on what the crime of that person has done anymore.

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Najhul Balaha: Sermon 206: I dislike you starting to abuse them…. | Nahjul Balagha Part 1, The Sermons | Al-Islam.org

During the battle of Siffin Amir al-mu'minin heard some of his men abusing the Syrians, then he said:

ومن كلام له (عليه السلام)

وقد سمع قوماً من اصحابه يسبّون أهل الشام

أيام حربهم بصفين

I dislike you starting to abuse them, but if you describe their deeds and recount their situations that would be a better mode of speaking and a more convincing way of arguing. Instead of abusing them you should say, "O Allah! Save our blood and their blood, produce reconciliation between us and them, and lead them out of their misguidance so that he who is ignorant of the truth may know it, and he who inclines towards rebellion and revolt may turn away from it."

إِنِّي أَكْرَهُ لَكُمْ أَنْ تَكُونُوا سَبَّابِينَ، وَلكِنَّكُمْ لَوْ وَصَفْتُمْ أَعْمَالَهُمْ، وَذَكَرْتُمْ حَالَهُمْ، كَانَ أَصْوَبَ فِي الْقَوْلِ، وَأَبْلَغَ فِي الْعُذْرِ، وَقُلْتُمْ مَكَانَ سَبِّكُمْ إِيَّاهُمْ: اللَّهُمَّ احْقِنْ دِمَاءَنَا وَدِمَاءَهُمْ، وَأَصْلِحْ ذَاتَ بَيْنِنَا وَبَيْنِهِمْ، وَاهْدِهِمْ مِنْ ضَلاَلَتِهِمْ، حَتَّى يَعْرِفَ الْحَقَّ مَنْ جَهِلَهُ، وَيَرْعَوِيَ عَنِ الْغَيِّ وَالْعُدْوَانِ مَنْ لَهِجَ بِهِ.

Alternative Sources for Sermon 206

(1) Al-Dinawari, al-'Akhbar, 155;

(2) Nasr, Siffin, 103;

(3) Sibt ibn al-Jawzi, Tadhkirah, 154.

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