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Order of superiority according to shi'ites

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42 minutes ago, Inspector said:

So according to our classical hadith books, we already know the following about Syeda Fatima s.a:

"The light (Nur) of Fatima (S.A) was created before the creation of the earth and the heaven" 

This is just a part of hadith present in a book of Sheikh al-Sadooq a.r known as Ma'ani al-Akhbar p. 396. And there are many ahadith which can be cited to know about these blessed personalities. 

Just to add that there are many ahadith of this type including the following;

محمد بن معقل القرميسيني، عن محمد بن زيد الجزري، عن إبراهيم ابن إسحاق النهاوندي، عن عبد الله بن حماد، عن عمرو بن شمر، عن جابر، عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام:
قال: قلت: لم سميت فاطمة الزهراء، زهراء؟
فقال: لأن الله عز وجل خلقها من نور عظمته، فلما أشرقت أضاءت السماوات والأرض بنورها، وغشيت أبصار الملائكة، وخرت الملائكة لله ساجدين، وقالوا: إلهنا وسيدنا، ما هذا النور؟
فأوحى الله إليهم: هذا نور من نوري، وأسكنته في سمائي، خلقته من عظمتي أخرجه من صلب نبي من أنبيائي، أفضله على جميع الأنبياء وأخرج من ذلك النور أئمة يقومون بأمري، يهدون إلى حقي، وأجعلهم خلفائي في أرضي بعد انقضاء وحيي
 

http://shiaonlinelibrary.com/الكتب/1121_الإمامة-والتبصرة-ابن-بابويه-القمي/الصفحة_167#top

 

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1 hour ago, Inspector said:

Yes, I said this there. You haven't figured out the difference here and there

The difference is that the hadeeth went against your preconceived notion there, while it isn't the case here. Therefore you rejected the narrator as a liar and a waqifi there,  while you try to present him as an acceptable narrator here.

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8 minutes ago, Abu_Zahra said:

while it isn't the case here. Therefore you rejected the narrator as a liar and a waqifi there,  while you try to present him as an acceptable narrator here.

lol, I think you have no idea what I said when. 

Please go back and review all my posts on this thread.

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5 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam lol you consider Ayehsa infallible based on your interpretation from verse 33:33 while you are denying infallibility of lady Fatima who surly has had undeniable superiority to Ayesha which if you deny infallibility of lady Fatima so then you deny infallibility of mothers of believers which Ayeahs has been one them which your sunni scholars have considered all wives of prophet Muhammad (pbu) as his Ahlulbayt in verse of purification (33:33) which now you have denied position of Ayesha  just for decreasing status of lady Fatima (sa) .

You know very well ahlus sunnah don't believe that anyone is masum except prophets and angels. 

 

5 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

You will never accept her superiority until you will regret for denying it in judgment day although her superiority over all prophets even prophet Ibrahim (عليه السلام) has been proven by verse of Mubahila as bringing of our women in Mubahila

How does taking her to mubahila proves that she was better than ibrahim. 

 

5 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

According to prophet Muhammad (pbu) , lady Fatima has had all qualification of being a prophet which her superiority to all Masum (infallible ) Imams have been proven for Shia muslims although you have no definition for being Imam so therefore it's beyond your understanding due to your blind faith

Prove it. And having all the qualifications of being a prophet doesn't make you better than an actual prophet who is also an imam. 

 

5 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

have mentioned that Ibn abbas (رضي الله عنه) has mentioned  lady Fatima (sa) & commander of believers Imam Ali (عليه السلام) as two seas with a barrier  which has been mentioned in holy Quran so therefore proving superiority of lady Fatima (sa) over prophet Ibrahim (عليه السلام) leads to proving proving superiority commander of believers Imam Ali (عليه السلام) over all prophets from prophet Nuh (عليه السلام) to prophet Isa (عليه السلام) except prophet Muhammad (pbu) who has superiority to both of  lady Fatima (sa) & commander of believers Imam Ali (عليه السلام) & reat of prophets even prophet Ibrahim

Quote the full hadith with its chain. 

And all the other virtues of fatima that you quoted doesn't make her better than prophets. 

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2 hours ago, Inspector said:

lol, why not you discuss this subject on that thread? Trying to divert my attention here or you are feeling helpless in protecting your reformist friend :party:

Just pointing out the contradiction since it popped up in this thread. 

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3 hours ago, Abu_Zahra said:

Just pointing out the contradiction since it popped up in this thread. 

There cannot be any contradiction considering the matn as well as chain of your quoted hadith is doubtful. 

As for the hadith quoted here with Ali bin Hamza in chain of narrator, the text of that hadith is not weak, rather it is present in many other ahadith, already quoted by me here, mentioning the existence of noor of these 5 blessed personalities. 

Furthermore, here are other ahadith from Bihar mentioning what Ibrahim (عليه السلام) saw:

بصائر الدرجات: محمد، عن الجحال، عن ثعلبة، عن عبد الرحيم، عن أبي جعفر عليه السلام في هذه الآية: " وكذلك نري إبراهيم ملكوت السماوات والأرض وليكون من الموقنين " قال: كشط له عن الأرض حتى رآها ومن فيها، وعن السماء حتى رآها ومن فيها، والملك الذي يحملها، والعرش ومن عليه، وكذلك أرى صاحبكم. (1) تفسير العياشي: عن زرارة مثله. (2) 16 - تفسير العياشي: عن زرارة، عن أبي جعفر وأبي عبد الله عليهما السلام في قول الله: " وكذلك نري إبراهيم ملكوت السماوات والأرض وليكون من الموقنين " فقال أبو جعفر: كشط له عن السماوات حتى نظر إلى العرش وما عليه، قال: والسماوات والأرض والعرش والكرسي

Now what? :party:

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3 hours ago, Inspector said:

There cannot be any contradiction considering the matn as well as chain of your quoted hadith is doubtful. 

As for the hadith quoted here with Ali bin Hamza in chain of narrator, the text of that hadith is not weak, rather it is present in many other ahadith, already quoted by me here, mentioning the existence of noor of these 5 blessed personalities. 

Firstly you need to decide whether the narrator is reliable or not. It seems like you change your mind depending on the topic.

Secondly, your flawed reasoning doesn't even work here because there were various other narrations also citing that the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) had 4 daughters (and in fact none that mention he didn't), but this is anyway not the topic here.

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8 hours ago, Abu_Zahra said:

Firstly you need to decide whether the narrator is reliable or not. It seems like you change your mind depending on the topic.

What has been pointed out earlier was the fact that we do accept narrations that have weakness in chain. 

So Ali bin Hamza being waqifi or founder of a sect, may be un-reliable generally. But that doesn't mean whatever he narrated was un-reliable. As an example you can cite أبو الجارود who was Imami first then turned to Zaidiyyah. Do we reject every hadith narrated by him? If not, what exactly makes one to accept any of his report? Matn or the chain of narrator? Or what he said, mentioned by other reliable narrators too? 

8 hours ago, Abu_Zahra said:

Secondly, your flawed reasoning doesn't even work here because there were various other narrations also citing that the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) had 4 daughters (and in fact none that mention he didn't), but this is anyway not the topic here.

I already requested you to put your questions on that thread along with any claim of mine where I "claimed" that Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) had one or four daughters. 

What I was pointing on that thread, from the very beginning, was that there are problems, confusions & contradiction in the historical records as well as in hadith literatures. And I have provided there sufficient references in support of my statements. 

You may feel yourself free to ignore those confusions & contradictions, but please don't try to impose your opinion on others. If I were to continue further on that thread, I would certainly present more evidences for showing confusion & contradictions in historical records and for that my references would be two chapters of Quran namely Sura e Masad & al-Kauthar. But since I can only prove confusion & contradictions in historical records with that, so I preferred not to involve further.  

I have examined many ahadith you shared there and most of them have no concrete evidence that all the four were the biological daughters of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). The few ahadith left for examination were because of diversion of my interest from that topic because of the fact that all the other three daughters becomes irrelevant in Islamic History and in Islamic Fiqh. 

 

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4 hours ago, Inspector said:

What has been pointed out earlier was the fact that we do accept narrations that have weakness in chain. 

This hadith is da'eef and cannot be relied upon because of علي بن - أبي حمزة in the chain of narration which is mentioned as ضعيف as well as كذاب by rijaal experts. 

Your words. The contradiction is clear, we don't need to discuss it further.

4 hours ago, Inspector said:

I have examined many ahadith you shared there and most of them have no concrete evidence that all the four were the biological daughters of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)

If the words of the aimmah (عليه السلام) are not concrete evidence for you then I suppose we are looking for different kinds of evidence.

4 hours ago, Inspector said:

The few ahadith left for examination were because of diversion of my interest from that topic

So much for the claim of debunking them...

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10 minutes ago, Abu_Zahra said:

This hadith is da'eef and cannot be relied upon because of علي بن - أبي حمزة in the chain of narration which is mentioned as ضعيف as well as كذاب by rijaal experts. 

Your words. The contradiction is clear, we don't need to discuss it further.

lol, that was said because of your comment on al-Kufi where you declared him ghali.

11 minutes ago, Abu_Zahra said:

If the words of the aimmah (عليه السلام) are not concrete evidence for you then I suppose we are looking for different kinds of evidence.

Same has been said by me and can be said by me again while you refuse to accept the report mentioning Imam Ali (عليه السلام) as the only son-in-law of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). There were no Abi Hamza in those group of reports lol. 

14 minutes ago, Abu_Zahra said:

So much for the claim of debunking them...

lol, you are free to accept them for yourself. That matter is not clear for some as pointed out. There were no claim from my side and the only claim was that Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) had 4 daughters, which was not my claim. 

I am wondering which claim was debunked? lol 

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4 hours ago, Inspector said:

What has been pointed out earlier was the fact that we do accept narrations that have weakness in chain. 

So Ali bin Hamza being waqifi or founder of a sect, may be un-reliable generally. But that doesn't mean whatever he narrated was un-reliable. As an example you can cite أبو الجارود who was Imami first then turned to Zaidiyyah. Do we reject every hadith narrated by him? If not, what exactly makes one to accept any of his report? Matn or the chain of narrator? Or what he said, mentioned by other reliable narrators too?

 

Dear brother,

You are partially correct in that there are members of sects such as Zaydis, Waqifis who might be reliable according to some scholars as long as they do not narrate something which supports their Bidah or innovation or sect.

However, we are not just talking about a simple Waqifi , but rather, we are talking about the founder of the sect, the man who usurped money from Imam Ridha, who was a major enemy of Imam Ridha, a fabricator, and a major liar and also Ghali. 

One can not take Aqeedah or beliefs from such a person.

Even if it is done out of love of the Ahlulbayt and a desire to try to save as many ahadith that appear to extol them , the Ahlulbayt may well hate such a thing, a lie on them by a ghali and a fabricator. This is similar to Paul the one who we say fabricated a lot, and Jesus Christ the blessed Messiah who will not be thanking Paul or those who adhere to Paul.

<>

To others, Ali b. Abi Hamzah is not Abi Hamzah at-Thumali but another one that came after and was a major Ghali.

Edited by In Gods Name
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38 minutes ago, In Gods Name said:

However, we are not just talking about a simple Waqifi , but rather, we are talking about the founder of the sect, the man who usurped money from Imam Ridha, who was a major enemy of Imam Ridha, a fabricator, and a major liar and also Ghali. 

The hadith was about Ibrahim (عليه السلام), so I have shared many more references

18 hours ago, Inspector said:

here are other ahadith from Bihar mentioning what Ibrahim (عليه السلام) saw:

بصائر الدرجات: محمد، عن الجحال، عن ثعلبة، عن عبد الرحيم، عن أبي جعفر عليه السلام في هذه الآية: " وكذلك نري إبراهيم ملكوت السماوات والأرض وليكون من الموقنين " قال: كشط له عن الأرض حتى رآها ومن فيها، وعن السماء حتى رآها ومن فيها، والملك الذي يحملها، والعرش ومن عليه، وكذلك أرى صاحبكم. (1) تفسير العياشي: عن زرارة مثله. (2) 16 - تفسير العياشي: عن زرارة، عن أبي جعفر وأبي عبد الله عليهما السلام في قول الله: " وكذلك نري إبراهيم ملكوت السماوات والأرض وليكون من الموقنين " فقال أبو جعفر: كشط له عن السماوات حتى نظر إلى العرش وما عليه، قال: والسماوات والأرض والعرش والكرسي

 

 

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1 minute ago, Inspector said:

The hadith was about Ibrahim (عليه السلام), so I have shared many more references

 

Dear brother,

Bihar al Anwar contains 110+ volumes of a massive collection of absolutely everything, compiled 1000 years after the Imams.

The student of Sayed Khui, Ayatullah Muhsini , a fellow classmate of Sayed Sistani condensed those 110 plus volumes into 3 volumes of reliable hadith.

Bihar itself is not a primary source - could you please cite the primary source that second hadith in this specific post you have given has come from?

Barakallahu feek.

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8 minutes ago, In Gods Name said:

could you please cite the primary source that second hadith in this specific post you have given has come from?

lol, please tell me the names of primary sources so that I can look out and so that you cannot run away from what names you wrote.

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1 minute ago, Inspector said:

lol, please tell me the names of primary sources so that I can look out and so that you cannot run away from what names you wrote.

Please note brother, a primary source is the starting basis, and not an absolute authority.

At minimum, we can not cite a book that came one thousand years after the Imams. Rather, we need book within a few hundred years, within them with chains of narrators.

We then need to examine those chains of narrators.

When it comes to Aqeedah, even isolated single chained reports , even if reliable can not be used as proof to compel belief.

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3 hours ago, Inspector said:

lol, that was said because of your comment on al-Kufi where you declared him ghali.

So you didn't actually believe what you were typing?

3 hours ago, Inspector said:

lol, you are free to accept them for yourself. That matter is not clear for some as pointed out. There were no claim from my side and the only claim was that Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) had 4 daughters, which was not my claim. 

So the matter is not clear to you? Alhamdulillah,  after your bold insults against Sayyid Fadlallah and others who demonstrate points which you (for no clear reason) don't appreciate, the tone has now reduced to 'I didn't make a claim' and 'it is not clear to me.'

InshaAllah you won't be so quick next time to try and mock and denigrate ulama just because you don't like their opinions. You only end up embarassing yourself in the end.

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On 2/14/2024 at 9:11 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam we use infallibility because it's most near definition to definition of Ismah in westerner dictionaries which all of us are using term of Ismah in Arabic & Farsi/Persian & Urdu which Ismah has no definition in westerner dictionaries which only near definition to it , is infallibility although it doesn't has proper definition near to Ismah .

Wa Aleikum Salaam, 

I agree. Many believers can reach a state where they don't do major and even minor sins, but it is not guarantee that they will always be in that state, while for Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) will make sure that they will always be in that state. 

 

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21 hours ago, Abu_Zahra said:

So you didn't actually believe what you were typing?

I don't know what you are even trying to say? Posing as you were ignorant of the weakness of Ali b Hamza, You only accept hadith with solid chains.

I can accept even weak ahadith depending on the matn. DonI really need to remind you this again and again?

21 hours ago, Abu_Zahra said:

So the matter is not clear to you?

:hahaha: If it make you happy then understand that way. Otherwise what has been said, said loud & clear by me. 

21 hours ago, Abu_Zahra said:

Alhamdulillah,  after your bold insults against Sayyid Fadlallah and others who demonstrate points which you (for no clear reason) don't appreciate, the tone has now reduced to 'I didn't make a claim' and 'it is not clear to me.'

Respected Late Ayatullah Fadlullah & you my dear brother, are almost at the same level of knowledge. I respect you just like him, instead for me, you are Ayatullah Fadlullah of ShiaChat. Great knowledge you have Masha-Allah and you have further polished yourself with the even more greater knowledge of Mr. Kamanpoori, another great person. 

Having said that, it is sufficient that you failed to post here any of my claim from there. 

I am still wondering which claim of mine was debunked by you? 

Anyway, I am glad to have these conversation with you. 

Wassalam!

 

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41 minutes ago, Inspector said:

I can accept even weak ahadith depending on the matn. DonI really need to remind you this again and again?

22 hours ago, Abu_Zahra said:

If you accept weak hadith from accursed individuals known for lying and fabricating and then base your Aqeedah on this, would you not say that is a dangerous game to play?

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@Hameedeh @ShiaChat Mod

Dear Sister & Brother, first of all thank you for reminding me that which I forgot in flow of emotions. 

I would like to report to you two the comment (above) as follows;

"If you accept weak hadith from accursed individuals known for lying and fabricating and then base your Aqeedah on this, would you not say that is a dangerous game to play?

This person has no idea why I am saying this to @Abu_Zahra, it was Abu Zahra who quoted the hadith on another thread for proving prophet had 4 biological daughters. In the chain of narrators, Ali b. Abi Hamza was there in the chain and text itself was in contradiction with few other ahadith, so I responded Abu Zahra by saying this hadith cannot be relied upon because of the weak narrator. 

The hadith which I shared here on this thread also having Ali b. Hamza but the text is almost mutawatir as many other narrations mentioned the noori existence of Prophets and Imams. 

Please advise me in which Islamic tone should I respond him? The number of daughters of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is not a matter of Aqeedah, the existence of Prophet's & his pure progeny in the form of noor, is also a different case. All these sort of ahadith are informative in nature and contain nothing we know as "tashri'i". 

I am awaiting to receive your guidelines as I have began to fear with the warnings issued in responding to some comments which sound "stupid" to me.  

Wassalam! 

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2 hours ago, Inspector said:

The hadith which I shared here on this thread also having Ali b. Hamza but the text is almost mutawatir as many other narrations mentioned the noori existence of Prophets and Imams. 

 

Could you kindly provide evidence for the claim that God created the ahlulbayt as lights and they exist as divine lights and then came down to assume their human form is Mutttawatir?

 

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4 hours ago, Inspector said:

I don't know what you are even trying to say? Posing as you were ignorant of the weakness of Ali b Hamza, You only accept hadith with solid chains.

In one thread you reject his hadith on the basis of him being a liar and a waqifi yet in the other you seem to find him a reliable narrator.

4 hours ago, Inspector said:

I can accept even weak ahadith depending on the matn.

It is clear that you accept weak narrations, I don't think anyone is disputing this.

4 hours ago, Inspector said:

Respected Late Ayatullah Fadlullah & you my dear brother, are almost at the same level of knowledge

Obviously not, he was much more knowledgeable than the likes of you or me. It is enough for one to look at his works and compare them to our posts to see how wide the gap in knowledge is, which simply makes it more ridiculous when someone like yourself tries to pass him off as being ignorant. But Alhamdulillah it looks like you have learnt your lesson. 

 

4 hours ago, Inspector said:

Having said that, it is sufficient that you failed to post here any of my claim from there. 

This was never the aim, since the other discussion is still open on the other thread and you have failed to address the numerous narrations that prove that our Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) had 4 daughters.

 

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4 minutes ago, Abu_Zahra said:

In one thread you reject his hadith on the basis of him being a liar and a waqifi yet in the other you seem to find him a reliable narrator.

He basically rejected that hadith because of a weak sunni historical report and because of his problems with matn which was debunked there in that thread. And he also rejected that narration because of a report in uyoon akbar ridha that ali was given 3 merits which is not given to any. That report was also weak because of the narrators being relatively unknown. 

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Quote:

"provide evidence for the claim that God created the ahlulbayt as lights"

Unquote;

#1.

الكافي - صحيحة السند:
6ـ مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ أَحْمَدَ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ الْحُسَيْنِ عَنْ أَبِي سَعِيدٍ الْعُصْفُورِيِّ عَنْ عَمْرِو بْنِ ثَابِتٍ عَنْ أَبِي حَمْزَةَ قَالَ سَمِعْتُ عَلِيَّ بن الحسين (عَلَيْهما السَّلام) يَقُولُ إِنَّ الله خَلَقَ مُحَمَّداً وَعَلِيّاً وَأَحَدَ عَشَرَ مِنْ وُلْدِهِ مِنْ نُورِ عَظَمَتِهِ فَأَقَامَهُمْ أَشْبَاحاً فِي ضِيَاءِ نُورِهِ يَعْبُدُونَهُ قَبْلَ خَلْقِ الْخَلْقِ يُسَبِّحُونَ الله وَيُقَدِّسُونَهُ وَهُمُ الائِمَّةُ مِنْ وُلْدِ رَسُولِ الله (صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَآلِه)
 

#2.

التوحيد - الصدوق صحيحة السند:
أبي رحمه الله ، قال : حدثنا سعد بن عبد الله ، قال : حدثنا أحمد بن محمد ابن عيسى ، عن الحسين بن سعيد ، عن فضالة بن أيوب ، عن أبان بن عثمان ، عن محمد بن مسلم قال : سمعت أبا عبد الله يقول : إن لله عزوجل خلقا من رحمته خلقهم من نوره ورحمته من رحمته لرحمته (1) فهم عين الله الناظرة ، وأذنه السامعة ولسانه الناطق في خلقه بإذنه ، وأمناؤه على ما أنزل من عذر أو نذر أو حجة ، فبهم يمحو السيئات ، وبهم يدفع الضيم ، وبهم ينزل الرحمة ، وبهم يحيي ميتا ، وبهم يميت حيا ، وبهم يبتلي خلقه ، وبهم يقضي في خلقه قضيته ، قلت : جعلت فداك من هؤلاء ؟ قال : الأوصياء

The above hadith is also one of the evidence of wilayat e takwiniyyah. It can also be served a supportive hadith for some of the matn of Ziyarat e Jamia.

#3

بحار الأنوار صحيحة السند:
9 - مع ، ن : ابن عبدوس ، عن ابن قتيبة ، عن حمدان بن سليمان ، عن الهروي قال : قلت للرضا : ياابن رسول الله أخبرني عن الشجرة التي أكل منها آدم وحواء ما كانت ؟ فقد اختلف الناس فيها : فمنهم من يروي أنها الحنطة ، ومنهم من يروي أنها العنب ، ومنهم من يروي أنها شجرة الحسد ، فقال : كل ذلك حق . قلت : فما معنى هذه الوجوه على اختلافها ؟ فقال : يا أبا الصلت إن شجر الجنة تحمل أنواعا فكانت شجرة الحنطة وفيها عنب ، وليست كشجر الدنيا ، وإن آدم لما أكرمه الله تعالى ذكره بإسجاد ملائكته له وبإدخاله الجنة قال في نفسه : هل خلق الله بشرا أفضل مني ؟ فعلم الله عزوجل ما وقع في نفسه ، فناداه : ارفع رأسك يا آدم فانظر إلى ساق عرشي ، فرفع آدم رأسه فنظر إلى ساق العرش فوجد عليه مكتوبا : " لا إله إلا الله ، محمد رسول الله ، علي بن أبي طالب أميرالمؤمنين ، وزوجه فاطمة سيدة نساء العالمين ، والحسن والحسين سيدا شباب أهل الجنة " فقال آدم : يا رب من هؤلاء ؟ فقال عزوجل : من ذريتك وهم خير منك ومن جميع خلقي ، ولولاهم ما خلقتك ولا خلقت الجنة والنار ولا السماء والارض (...)

#4

عن الشيخ أبي الفتح الكراجكي رحمه الله قال: حدثنا الشيخ الفقيه أبو الحسن محمد بن أحمد بن علي بن الحسن بن شاذان القمي رضي الله عنه قال: حدثنا جعفر بن محمد العلوي قال: حدثنا عبيد الله بن أحمد، قال: حدثنا محمد بن زياد، قال: حدثنا مفضل بن عمر، عن جعفر بن محمد، عن أبيه، عن علي بن الحسين عن أبيه أمير المؤمنين علي عليهم السلام، انه كان جالسا في الرحبة والناس حوله، فقام إليه رجل، فقال: يا امير المؤمنين إنك بالمكان الذي أنزلك الله وأبوك معذب في النار، فقال (): مه فض الله فاك، والذي بعث محمدا صلى الله عليه وآله بالحق نبيا لو شفع أبي في كل مذنب على وجه الارض لشفعه الله فيهم، أبي يعذب في النار وابنه قسيم الجنة والنار ؟ والذي بعث محمدا بالحق إن نور أبي طالب ليطفئ أنوار الخلائق إلا خمسة أنوار، نور محمد ونور فاطمة ونور الحسن ونور الحسين ونور ولده من الائمة، ألا إن نوره من نورنا خلقه الله من قبل خلق آدم بالفي عام
 

#5

معاني الاخبار صحيحة السند:
حدثنا محمد بن موسى بن المتوكل - رضي الله عنه - قال: حدثنا عبدالله بن جعفر الحميري، عن يعقوب بن يزيد، قال: حدثنا الحسن بن علي بن فضال، عن عبد الرحمن بن الحجاج، عن سدير الصيرفي، عن الصادق جعفر بن محمد، عن أبيه، عن جده عليهم السلام قال: قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه واله: خلق نور فاطمة عليها السلام قبل أن تخلق الارض والسماء .فقال بعض الناس: يانبي الله فليست هي إنسية؟ فقال صلى الله عليه وآله: فاطمة حوراء إنسية قال: يانبي الله وكيف هي حوراء إنسية؟ قال: خلقها الله عزوجل من نوره قبل أن يخلق آدم إذ كانت الارواح فلما خلق الله عزوجل آدم عرضت على آدم. قيل: يانبي الله وأين كانت فاطمة؟ قال: كانت في حقة تحت ساق العرش، قالوا: يانبي الله فما كان طعامها؟ قال: التسبيح، والتهليل، والتحميد. فلما خلق الله عزوجل آدم و أخرجني من صلبه أحب الله عزوجل أن يخرجها من صلبي جعلها تفاحة في الجنة و أتاني بها جبرئيل فقال لي: السلام عليك ورحمة الله وبركاته يا محمد، قلت: وعليك السلام ورحمة الله حبيبي جبرئيل. فقال: يامحمد إن ربك يقرئك السلام. قلت: منه السلام وإليه يعود السلام.قال: يامحمد إن هذه تفاحة أهداها الله عزوجل إليك من الجنة فأخذتها وضممتها إلى صدري. قال: يامحمد يقول الله جل جلاله: كلها. ففلقتها فرأيت نورا ساطعا ففزعت منه فقال: يامحمد مالك لا تأكل؟ كلها ولا تخف، فإن ذلك النور المنصورة في السماء وهي الارض فاطمة، قلت: حبيبي جبرئيل، ولم سميت في السماء " المنصورة " وفي الارض " فاطمة "؟ قال: سميت في الارض " فاطمة " لانها فطمت شيعتها من النار وفطم أعداء‌ها عن حبها، وهي في السماء " المصورة " وذلك قول الله
عزوجل: " يومئذ يفرح المؤمنون * بنصر الله ينصرمن يشاء " يعني نصر فاطمة لمحبيها

I guess these 5 are sufficient.

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2 minutes ago, Inspector said:

#1.

الكافي - صحيحة السند:
6ـ مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ أَحْمَدَ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ الْحُسَيْنِ عَنْ أَبِي سَعِيدٍ الْعُصْفُورِيِّ عَنْ عَمْرِو بْنِ ثَابِتٍ عَنْ أَبِي حَمْزَةَ قَالَ سَمِعْتُ عَلِيَّ بن الحسين (عَلَيْهما السَّلام) يَقُولُ إِنَّ الله خَلَقَ مُحَمَّداً وَعَلِيّاً وَأَحَدَ عَشَرَ مِنْ وُلْدِهِ مِنْ نُورِ عَظَمَتِهِ فَأَقَامَهُمْ أَشْبَاحاً فِي ضِيَاءِ نُورِهِ يَعْبُدُونَهُ قَبْلَ خَلْقِ الْخَلْقِ يُسَبِّحُونَ الله وَيُقَدِّسُونَهُ وَهُمُ الائِمَّةُ مِنْ وُلْدِ رَسُولِ الله (صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَآلِه)
 

I will just take your first posted hadith in that list to advise caution and scrutiny for the rest of what is posted. 

This is not a Saheeh Sanad:, Grading: Majhool 

 6. Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from Muhammad ibn Ahmad from Muhammad ibn al-Husayn from abu Sa‘id al-‘Usfuriy from ‘Amru ibn Thabit from Abu Hamza who has said the following. “I heard Ali ibn al-Husayn say, ‘Allah created Muhammad , Ali and the eleven Imams from his descendants out of the light of His greatness. He then placed them as figures in the brightness of His light where they worshipped Him before the creation of the creatures. They would speak of the Glory of Allah and of His Holiness. They are the Imams from descendants of the Messenger of Allah.”

https://thaqalayn.net/hadith/1/4/126/6

 

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5 minutes ago, Inspector said:

The above hadith is also one of the evidence of wilayat e takwiniyyah. It can also be served a supportive hadith for some of the matn of Ziyarat e Jamia.

 

That Ziyarah wholesale needs to be thrown out. It is weak by chain.

8 minutes ago, Inspector said:

أبي رحمه الله ، قال : حدثنا سعد بن عبد الله ، قال : حدثنا أحمد بن محمد ابن عيسى ، عن الحسين بن سعيد ، عن فضالة بن أيوب ، عن أبان بن عثمان ، عن محمد بن مسلم قال : سمعت أبا عبد الله يقول : إن لله عزوجل خلقا من رحمته خلقهم من نوره ورحمته من رحمته لرحمته (1) فهم عين الله الناظرة ، وأذنه السامعة ولسانه الناطق في خلقه بإذنه ، وأمناؤه على ما أنزل من عذر أو نذر أو حجة ، فبهم يمحو السيئات ، وبهم يدفع الضيم ، وبهم ينزل الرحمة ، وبهم يحيي ميتا ، وبهم يميت حيا ، وبهم يبتلي خلقه ، وبهم يقضي في خلقه قضيته ، قلت : جعلت فداك من هؤلاء ؟ قال : الأوصياء

 

1 - أبي رحمه الله، قال: حدثنا سعد بن عبد الله، قال: حدثنا أحمد بن محمد ابن عيسى، عن الحسين بن سعيد، عن فضالة بن أيوب، عن أبان بن عثمان، عن محمد بن مسلم قال: سمعت أبا عبد الله عليه السلام يقول: إن لله عز وجل خلقا من رحمته خلقهم من نوره ورحمته من رحمته لرحمته (١) فهم عين الله الناظرة، وأذنه السامعة ولسانه الناطق في خلقه بإذنه، وأمناؤه على ما أنزل من عذر أو نذر أو حجة، فبهم يمحو السيئات، وبهم يدفع الضيم، وبهم ينزل الرحمة، وبهم يحيي ميتا، وبهم يميت حيا، وبهم يبتلي خلقه، وبهم يقضي في خلقه قضيته، قلت: جعلت فداك من هؤلاء؟ قال: الأوصياء. 

1. My father (رضي الله عنه) that Sa`d ibn `Abd Allah said: Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn `Isa on the authority of Husayn ibn Sa`id on the authority of Fudalah ibn Ayyub on the authority of Aban ibn `Uthman on the authority of Muhammad ibn Muslim that Abu `Abd Allah al-Sadiq (عليه السلام) said: "Verily, Allah, the Mighty and High created a creation from His own Light and a mercy from His Mercy. Hence, they are the Eye through which Allah sees, the Ear through which Allah listens, and the Tongue through which Allah speaks His Will. They are the Guardians of His Revelation which He sends down as a mercy, a warning and a proof. Hence, He wipes out their sins, removes injustice from them, sends down mercy from them, gives life to the deceased from them, kills the living for them, tries His Creation through them, and fulfils the needs of His Creation through them." I asked, “May I be sacrificed for you! Who are these?” He said: “The successors (of Muhammad).”

Al-Tawḥīd, Meaning of the Eye, the Ear, and the Tongue of Allah, Hadith #1

https://thaqalayn.net/hadith/14/2/24/1

 

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We find in a Saheeh Hadith al-Qudsi in al-Kafi:

8ـ عِدَّةٌ مِنْ أَصْحَابِنَا عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ خَالِدٍ عَنْ إِسْمَاعِيلَ بْنِ مِهْرَانَ عَنْ أَبِي سَعِيدٍ الْقَمَّاطِ عَنْ أَبَانِ بْنِ تَغْلِبَ عَنْ أَبِي جَعْفَرٍ (عَلَيهِ السَّلام) قَالَ لَمَّا أُسْرِيَ بِالنَّبِيِّ (صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وآلِه) قَالَ يَا رَبِّ مَا حَالُ الْمُؤْمِنِ عِنْدَكَ قَالَ يَا مُحَمَّدُ مَنْ أَهَانَ لِي وَلِيّاً فَقَدْ بَارَزَنِي بِالْمُحَارَبَةِ وَأَنَا أَسْرَعُ شَيْ‏ءٍ إِلَى نُصْرَةِ أَوْلِيَائِي وَمَا تَرَدَّدْتُ عَنْ شَيْ‏ءٍ أَنَا فَاعِلُهُ كَتَرَدُّدِي عَنْ وَفَاةِ الْمُؤْمِنِ يَكْرَهُ الْمَوْتَ وَأَكْرَهُ مَسَاءَتَهُ وَإِنَّ مِنْ عِبَادِيَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ مَنْ لا يُصْلِحُهُ إِلا الْغِنَى وَلَوْ صَرَفْتُهُ إِلَى غَيْرِ ذَلِكَ لَهَلَكَ وَإِنَّ مِنْ عِبَادِيَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ مَنْ لا يُصْلِحُهُ إِلا الْفَقْرُ وَلَوْ صَرَفْتُهُ إِلَى غَيْرِ ذَلِكَ لَهَلَكَ وَمَا يَتَقَرَّبُ إِلَيَّ عَبْدٌ مِنْ عِبَادِي بِشَيْ‏ءٍ أَحَبَّ إِلَيَّ مِمَّا افْتَرَضْتُ عَلَيْهِ وَإِنَّهُ لَيَتَقَرَّبُ إِلَيَّ بِالنَّافِلَةِ حَتَّى أُحِبَّهُ فَإِذَا أَحْبَبْتُهُ كُنْتُ إِذاً سَمْعَهُ الَّذِي يَسْمَعُ بِهِ وَبَصَرَهُ الَّذِي يُبْصِرُ بِهِ وَلِسَانَهُ الَّذِي يَنْطِقُ بِهِ وَيَدَهُ الَّتِي يَبْطِشُ بِهَا إِنْ دَعَانِي أَجَبْتُهُ وَإِنْ سَأَلَنِي أَعْطَيْتُهُ.

8. A number of our people have narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Khalid from Isma’il ibn Mehran from abu Sa’id al-Qammat from Aban ibn Taghlib from abu Ja’far ((عليه السلام).) who has said the following: “When the Holy Prophet was taken to visit the heavens, he asked, ‘O Lord, how is the condition of the believers before you?’ He (Allah) said, ‘O Muhammad, whoever insults any of My friends has declared war against Me. I am the quickest to help My friends. I have not hesitated in any of My acts as much as I do at the time of the death of a believer who dislikes death and I dislike to disappoint him. Of My believing servants there are those who do not perform well without wealth and if I change his condition he is destroyed. Also among My believing servants are those who do not perform well unless they are poor and, if I change their condition to something else, they are destroyed. For seeking nearness to Me there is no better means for My servant than to fulfill what 1 have made obligatory for them and that he should seek nearness to Me through performing optional acts of worship so I will love him. When I will love him I will be his ears with which he will hear, his eyes with which he will see, his tongue with which he will speak and his hands with which he will perform his activities. Whenever he prays I will answer him and, whenever he asks a favor, I will grant him.’” 

- https://thaqalayn.net/hadith/2/1/145/8

and this part:

"And through them He wards off grievances, and through them He sends down mercy, and through them He enlivens the dead, and causes to die the living. And through them He afflicts His creation (with tribulations), and through them He judges cases among His creation."

This is not literal. Allah does not literally tell the Ahlulbayt to create all of life and then does it via them as a route. Rather this is allegorical. Those Allah has chosen, those who are pious from the Ambiya and the Awliya, it is a more poetic, indirect meaning. I.E. Through the ethos of them being Muwahhids and truly obedient slaves of Allah, and out of Allah's love and purpose for mankind to reach that, and through the preaching of Tawheed and Islam.

For example, the Hadith of Salman b. Farsi (Radhiyallahu anhu)

عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عِيسَى عَنْ صَفْوَانَ بْنِ يَحْيَى عَنْ حَنَانٍ قَالَ سَمِعْتُ أَبِي يَرْوِي عَنْ أَبِي جَعْفَرٍ (عليه السلام) قَالَ كَانَ سَلْمَانُ جَالِساً مَعَ نَفَرٍ مِنْ قُرَيْشٍ فِي الْمَسْجِدِ فَأَقْبَلُوا يَنْتَسِبُونَ وَ يَرْفَعُونَ فِي أَنْسَابِهِمْ حَتَّى بَلَغُوا سَلْمَانَ فَقَالَ لَهُ عُمَرُ بْنُ الْخَطَّابِ أَخْبِرْنِي مَنْ أَنْتَ وَ مَنْ أَبُوكَ وَ مَا أَصْلُكَ فَقَالَ أَنَا سَلْمَانُ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ كُنْتُ ضَالًّا فَهَدَانِي اللَّهُ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ بِمُحَمَّدٍ (صلى الله عليه وآله) وَ كُنْتُ عَائِلًا فَأَغْنَانِي اللَّهُ بِمُحَمَّدٍ (صلى الله عليه وآله) وَ كُنْتُ مَمْلُوكاً فَأَعْتَقَنِي اللَّهُ بِمُحَمَّدٍ (صلى الله عليه وآله) هَذَا نَسَبِي وَ هَذَا حَسَبِي قَالَ فَخَرَجَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ (صلى الله عليه وآله) وَ سَلْمَانُ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ يُكَلِّمُهُمْ فَقَالَ لَهُ سَلْمَانُ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ مَا لَقِيتُ مِنْ هَؤُلَاءِ جَلَسْتُ مَعَهُمْ فَأَخَذُوا يَنْتَسِبُونَ وَ يَرْفَعُونَ فِي أَنْسَابِهِمْ حَتَّى إِذَا بَلَغُوا إِلَيَّ قَالَ عُمَرُ بْنُ الْخَطَّابِ مَنْ أَنْتَ وَ مَا أَصْلُكَ وَ مَا حَسَبُكَ فَقَالَ النَّبِيُّ (صلى الله عليه وآله) فَمَا قُلْتَ لَهُ يَا سَلْمَانُ قَالَ قُلْتُ لَهُ أَنَا سَلْمَانُ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ كُنْتُ ضَالًّا فَهَدَانِي اللَّهُ عَزَّ ذِكْرُهُ بِمُحَمَّدٍ (صلى الله عليه وآله) وَ كُنْتُ عَائِلًا فَأَغْنَانِي اللَّهُ عَزَّ ذِكْرُهُ بِمُحَمَّدٍ (صلى الله عليه وآله) وَ كُنْتُ مَمْلُوكاً فَأَعْتَقَنِي اللَّهُ عَزَّ ذِكْرُهُ بِمُحَمَّدٍ (صلى الله عليه وآله) هَذَا نَسَبِي وَ هَذَا حَسَبِي فَقَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ (صلى الله عليه وآله) يَا مَعْشَرَ قُرَيْشٍ إِنَّ حَسَبَ الرَّجُلِ دِينُهُ وَ مُرُوءَتَهُ خُلُقُهُ وَ أَصْلَهُ عَقْلُهُ وَ قَالَ اللَّهُ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ إِنَّا خَلَقْناكُمْ مِنْ ذَكَرٍ وَ أُنْثى وَ جَعَلْناكُمْ شُعُوباً وَ قَبائِلَ لِتَعارَفُوا إِنَّ أَكْرَمَكُمْ عِنْدَ اللَّهِ أَتْقاكُمْ ثُمَّ قَالَ النَّبِيُّ (صلى الله عليه وآله) لِسَلْمَانَ لَيْسَ لِأَحَدٍ مِنْ هَؤُلَاءِ عَلَيْكَ فَضْلٌ إِلَّا بِتَقْوَى اللَّهِ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ وَ إِنْ كَانَ التَّقْوَى لَكَ عَلَيْهِمْ فَأَنْتَ أَفْضَلُ.

203. Ali b. Ibrahim [narrated] from Abdullah b. Muhammad b. Isa from Safwan b. Yahya from Hanan who said: I heard my father narrated from Abu Ja’far (عليه السلام) having said: ‘Salman (رضي الله عنه) was seated with a number of people from Quraysh in a Mosque. They started priding over their lineages and ancestry until they reached Salman (رضي الله عنه). Umar b. al-Khattab said to him, ‘Inform me who you are, and who your father is, and what your origin is’.  So he said: ‘I am Salman, son of a servant of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). I had strayed but Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) had guided me through Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), and I was needy so Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) enriched through Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), and I was owned [as a slave] so Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) freed me through Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). This is my lineage, and this is my nobility’.  So Rasulullah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) [came out and] said: 'O group of Quraysh, the nobility of a man is his Religion, and his chivalry is his manners, and his origin is his intellect, and Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has said: O mankind! Indeed, We created you from a male and a female, and made you nations and tribes that you may identify yourselves with one another.' {49:13}. Then the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) said to Salman, ‘There is no virtue over you from any of these ones except by taqwa (i.e., fear of Allah), and if there is piety in you [superior] to them, then you are more virtous [than them].'

- https://thaqalayn.net/hadith/8/1/203/1

 

Even Amirul Mumineen would ask through those whom Allah loves or has favoured (The Prophet, other Ambiyah etc):

1ـ مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عِيسَى عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ الله الْبَرْقِيِّ عَنْ عِيسَى بْنِ عَبْدِ الله الْقُمِّيِّ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ الله (عَلَيهِ السَّلام) قَالَ كَانَ أَمِيرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ (صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وآلِه) يَقُولُ إِذَا فَرَغَ مِنَ الزَّوَالِ اللهمَّ إِنِّي أَتَقَرَّبُ إِلَيْكَ بِجُودِكَ وَكَرَمِكَ وَأَتَقَرَّبُ إِلَيْكَ بِمُحَمَّدٍ عَبْدِكَ وَرَسُولِكَ وَأَتَقَرَّبُ إِلَيْكَ بِمَلائِكَتِكَ الْمُقَرَّبِينَ وَأَنْبِيَائِكَ الْمُرْسَلِينَ وَبِكَ اللهمَّ أَنْتَ الْغَنِيُّ عَنِّي وَبِيَ الْفَاقَةُ إِلَيْكَ أَنْتَ الْغَنِيُّ وَأَنَا الْفَقِيرُ إِلَيْكَ أَقَلْتَنِي عَثْرَتِي وَسَتَرْتَ عَلَيَّ ذُنُوبِي فَاقْضِ لِيَ الْيَوْمَ حَاجَتِي وَلا تُعَذِّبْنِي بِقَبِيحِ مَا تَعْلَمُ مِنِّي بَلْ عَفْوُكَ وَجُودُكَ يَسَعُنِي قَالَ ثُمَّ يَخِرُّ سَاجِداً وَيَقُولُ يَا أَهْلَ التَّقْوَى وَيَا أَهْلَ الْمَغْفِرَةِ يَا بَرُّ يَا رَحِيمُ أَنْتَ أَبَرُّ بِي مِنْ أَبِي وَأُمِّي وَمِنْ جَمِيعِ الْخَلائِقِ اقْبَلْنِي بِقَضَاءِ حَاجَتِي مُجَاباً دُعَائِي مَرْحُوماً صَوْتِي قَدْ كَشَفْتَ أَنْوَاعَ الْبَلايَا عَنِّي.

1. Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn ‘Isa from abu ‘Abd Allah al-Barqi from ‘Isa ibn ‘Abd Allah al-Qummi from Abu ‘Abdillah ((عليه السلام).) who has said the following: “Amir al-Mu’minin, Ali ibn abu Talib ((عليه السلام).) after completing the prayer at noon time would say, ‘O Lord, I seek nearness to You through Your generosity and magnanimity, I seek nearness to You through Muhammad, Your servant, and Your messenger, I seek nearness to You through Your favorite angels. Your messenger prophets and Your Own Self. O Lord, You are Self-sufficient and do not need me and I need You. You are wealthy and I am poor, correct my slips (mistakes) and cover up my sins, provide me help this day, do not punish me for the evil that You know of me, but pardon me and Your munificence may encompass me.’ The Imam said, ‘Then he would prostrate and say, “O You Who deserves people’s observing piety before Him, O You Who grants forgiveness, O Virtuous, and O Merciful, You are more kind to me than my father and mother and all the creatures, accept my plea in providing me help, answering my supplication and prayer, grant me favor for my call while You have already removed so many misfortunes from me.’” 

- https://thaqalayn.net/hadith/2/2/52/1

 

Thus, even if we were to accept this Khabar al-Wahid, it can be intepreted allegorically, because the entire tone of the Ahadith is allegorical and not restricted to only the Ahllubayt, but applied to the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and also applied to the Ambiya before them.  Similar to Allah creating us out of love of Muhammed (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is allegorical - it is to worship him and Muhammed (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) represents the pinnacle of worship. 

Nevertheless, one authentic Khabar al-Wahid if you want to take it literally when it clearly is allegorical is not probative. 

 

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23 minutes ago, Inspector said:

 

بحار الأنوار صحيحة السند:
9 - مع ، ن : ابن عبدوس ، عن ابن قتيبة ، عن حمدان بن سليمان ، عن الهروي قال : قلت للرضا : ياابن رسول الله أخبرني عن الشجرة التي أكل منها آدم وحواء ما كانت ؟ فقد اختلف الناس فيها : فمنهم من يروي أنها الحنطة ، ومنهم من يروي أنها العنب ، ومنهم من يروي أنها شجرة الحسد ، فقال : كل ذلك حق . قلت : فما معنى هذه الوجوه على اختلافها ؟ فقال : يا أبا الصلت إن شجر الجنة تحمل أنواعا فكانت شجرة الحنطة وفيها عنب ، وليست كشجر الدنيا ، وإن آدم لما أكرمه الله تعالى ذكره بإسجاد ملائكته له وبإدخاله الجنة قال في نفسه : هل خلق الله بشرا أفضل مني ؟ فعلم الله عزوجل ما وقع في نفسه ، فناداه : ارفع رأسك يا آدم فانظر إلى ساق عرشي ، فرفع آدم رأسه فنظر إلى ساق العرش فوجد عليه مكتوبا : " لا إله إلا الله ، محمد رسول الله ، علي بن أبي طالب أميرالمؤمنين ، وزوجه فاطمة سيدة نساء العالمين ، والحسن والحسين سيدا شباب أهل الجنة " فقال آدم : يا رب من هؤلاء ؟ فقال عزوجل : من ذريتك وهم خير منك ومن جميع خلقي ، ولولاهم ما خلقتك ولا خلقت الجنة والنار ولا السماء والارض (...)

#4

عن الشيخ أبي الفتح الكراجكي رحمه الله قال: حدثنا الشيخ الفقيه أبو الحسن محمد بن أحمد بن علي بن الحسن بن شاذان القمي رضي الله عنه قال: حدثنا جعفر بن محمد العلوي قال: حدثنا عبيد الله بن أحمد، قال: حدثنا محمد بن زياد، قال: حدثنا مفضل بن عمر، عن جعفر بن محمد، عن أبيه، عن علي بن الحسين عن أبيه أمير المؤمنين علي عليهم السلام، انه كان جالسا في الرحبة والناس حوله، فقام إليه رجل، فقال: يا امير المؤمنين إنك بالمكان الذي أنزلك الله وأبوك معذب في النار، فقال (): مه فض الله فاك، والذي بعث محمدا صلى الله عليه وآله بالحق نبيا لو شفع أبي في كل مذنب على وجه الارض لشفعه الله فيهم، أبي يعذب في النار وابنه قسيم الجنة والنار ؟ والذي بعث محمدا بالحق إن نور أبي طالب ليطفئ أنوار الخلائق إلا خمسة أنوار، نور محمد ونور فاطمة ونور الحسن ونور الحسين ونور ولده من الائمة، ألا إن نوره من نورنا خلقه الله من قبل خلق آدم بالفي عام
 

Bihar al Anwar is a 110 volume collection coming 1000 years plus after the Imams.

What are the primary sources of these two ahadith?

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6 minutes ago, In Gods Name said:

That Ziyarah wholesale needs to be thrown out. It is weak by chain.

1 - أبي رحمه الله، قال: حدثنا سعد بن عبد الله، قال: حدثنا أحمد بن محمد ابن عيسى، عن الحسين بن سعيد، عن فضالة بن أيوب، عن أبان بن عثمان، عن محمد بن مسلم قال: سمعت أبا عبد الله عليه السلام يقول: إن لله عز وجل خلقا من رحمته خلقهم من نوره ورحمته من رحمته لرحمته (١) فهم عين الله الناظرة، وأذنه السامعة ولسانه الناطق في خلقه بإذنه، وأمناؤه على ما أنزل من عذر أو نذر أو حجة، فبهم يمحو السيئات، وبهم يدفع الضيم، وبهم ينزل الرحمة، وبهم يحيي ميتا، وبهم يميت حيا، وبهم يبتلي خلقه، وبهم يقضي في خلقه قضيته، قلت: جعلت فداك من هؤلاء؟ قال: الأوصياء. 

1. My father (رضي الله عنه) that Sa`d ibn `Abd Allah said: Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn `Isa on the authority of Husayn ibn Sa`id on the authority of Fudalah ibn Ayyub on the authority of Aban ibn `Uthman on the authority of Muhammad ibn Muslim that Abu `Abd Allah al-Sadiq (عليه السلام) said: "Verily, Allah, the Mighty and High created a creation from His own Light and a mercy from His Mercy. Hence, they are the Eye through which Allah sees, the Ear through which Allah listens, and the Tongue through which Allah speaks His Will. They are the Guardians of His Revelation which He sends down as a mercy, a warning and a proof. Hence, He wipes out their sins, removes injustice from them, sends down mercy from them, gives life to the deceased from them, kills the living for them, tries His Creation through them, and fulfils the needs of His Creation through them." I asked, “May I be sacrificed for you! Who are these?” He said: “The successors (of Muhammad).”

Al-Tawḥīd, Meaning of the Eye, the Ear, and the Tongue of Allah, Hadith #1

https://thaqalayn.net/hadith/14/2/24/1

 

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We find in a Saheeh Hadith al-Qudsi in al-Kafi:

8ـ عِدَّةٌ مِنْ أَصْحَابِنَا عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ خَالِدٍ عَنْ إِسْمَاعِيلَ بْنِ مِهْرَانَ عَنْ أَبِي سَعِيدٍ الْقَمَّاطِ عَنْ أَبَانِ بْنِ تَغْلِبَ عَنْ أَبِي جَعْفَرٍ (عَلَيهِ السَّلام) قَالَ لَمَّا أُسْرِيَ بِالنَّبِيِّ (صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وآلِه) قَالَ يَا رَبِّ مَا حَالُ الْمُؤْمِنِ عِنْدَكَ قَالَ يَا مُحَمَّدُ مَنْ أَهَانَ لِي وَلِيّاً فَقَدْ بَارَزَنِي بِالْمُحَارَبَةِ وَأَنَا أَسْرَعُ شَيْ‏ءٍ إِلَى نُصْرَةِ أَوْلِيَائِي وَمَا تَرَدَّدْتُ عَنْ شَيْ‏ءٍ أَنَا فَاعِلُهُ كَتَرَدُّدِي عَنْ وَفَاةِ الْمُؤْمِنِ يَكْرَهُ الْمَوْتَ وَأَكْرَهُ مَسَاءَتَهُ وَإِنَّ مِنْ عِبَادِيَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ مَنْ لا يُصْلِحُهُ إِلا الْغِنَى وَلَوْ صَرَفْتُهُ إِلَى غَيْرِ ذَلِكَ لَهَلَكَ وَإِنَّ مِنْ عِبَادِيَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ مَنْ لا يُصْلِحُهُ إِلا الْفَقْرُ وَلَوْ صَرَفْتُهُ إِلَى غَيْرِ ذَلِكَ لَهَلَكَ وَمَا يَتَقَرَّبُ إِلَيَّ عَبْدٌ مِنْ عِبَادِي بِشَيْ‏ءٍ أَحَبَّ إِلَيَّ مِمَّا افْتَرَضْتُ عَلَيْهِ وَإِنَّهُ لَيَتَقَرَّبُ إِلَيَّ بِالنَّافِلَةِ حَتَّى أُحِبَّهُ فَإِذَا أَحْبَبْتُهُ كُنْتُ إِذاً سَمْعَهُ الَّذِي يَسْمَعُ بِهِ وَبَصَرَهُ الَّذِي يُبْصِرُ بِهِ وَلِسَانَهُ الَّذِي يَنْطِقُ بِهِ وَيَدَهُ الَّتِي يَبْطِشُ بِهَا إِنْ دَعَانِي أَجَبْتُهُ وَإِنْ سَأَلَنِي أَعْطَيْتُهُ.

8. A number of our people have narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Khalid from Isma’il ibn Mehran from abu Sa’id al-Qammat from Aban ibn Taghlib from abu Ja’far ((عليه السلام).) who has said the following: “When the Holy Prophet was taken to visit the heavens, he asked, ‘O Lord, how is the condition of the believers before you?’ He (Allah) said, ‘O Muhammad, whoever insults any of My friends has declared war against Me. I am the quickest to help My friends. I have not hesitated in any of My acts as much as I do at the time of the death of a believer who dislikes death and I dislike to disappoint him. Of My believing servants there are those who do not perform well without wealth and if I change his condition he is destroyed. Also among My believing servants are those who do not perform well unless they are poor and, if I change their condition to something else, they are destroyed. For seeking nearness to Me there is no better means for My servant than to fulfill what 1 have made obligatory for them and that he should seek nearness to Me through performing optional acts of worship so I will love him. When I will love him I will be his ears with which he will hear, his eyes with which he will see, his tongue with which he will speak and his hands with which he will perform his activities. Whenever he prays I will answer him and, whenever he asks a favor, I will grant him.’” 

- https://thaqalayn.net/hadith/2/1/145/8

and this part:

"And through them He wards off grievances, and through them He sends down mercy, and through them He enlivens the dead, and causes to die the living. And through them He afflicts His creation (with tribulations), and through them He judges cases among His creation."

This is not literal. Allah does not literally tell the Ahlulbayt to create all of life and then does it via them as a route. Rather this is allegorical. Those Allah has chosen, those who are pious from the Ambiya and the Awliya, it is a more poetic, indirect meaning. I.E. Through the ethos of them being Muwahhids and truly obedient slaves of Allah, and out of Allah's love and purpose for mankind to reach that, and through the preaching of Tawheed and Islam.

For example, the Hadith of Salman b. Farsi (Radhiyallahu anhu)

عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عِيسَى عَنْ صَفْوَانَ بْنِ يَحْيَى عَنْ حَنَانٍ قَالَ سَمِعْتُ أَبِي يَرْوِي عَنْ أَبِي جَعْفَرٍ (عليه السلام) قَالَ كَانَ سَلْمَانُ جَالِساً مَعَ نَفَرٍ مِنْ قُرَيْشٍ فِي الْمَسْجِدِ فَأَقْبَلُوا يَنْتَسِبُونَ وَ يَرْفَعُونَ فِي أَنْسَابِهِمْ حَتَّى بَلَغُوا سَلْمَانَ فَقَالَ لَهُ عُمَرُ بْنُ الْخَطَّابِ أَخْبِرْنِي مَنْ أَنْتَ وَ مَنْ أَبُوكَ وَ مَا أَصْلُكَ فَقَالَ أَنَا سَلْمَانُ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ كُنْتُ ضَالًّا فَهَدَانِي اللَّهُ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ بِمُحَمَّدٍ (صلى الله عليه وآله) وَ كُنْتُ عَائِلًا فَأَغْنَانِي اللَّهُ بِمُحَمَّدٍ (صلى الله عليه وآله) وَ كُنْتُ مَمْلُوكاً فَأَعْتَقَنِي اللَّهُ بِمُحَمَّدٍ (صلى الله عليه وآله) هَذَا نَسَبِي وَ هَذَا حَسَبِي قَالَ فَخَرَجَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ (صلى الله عليه وآله) وَ سَلْمَانُ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ يُكَلِّمُهُمْ فَقَالَ لَهُ سَلْمَانُ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ مَا لَقِيتُ مِنْ هَؤُلَاءِ جَلَسْتُ مَعَهُمْ فَأَخَذُوا يَنْتَسِبُونَ وَ يَرْفَعُونَ فِي أَنْسَابِهِمْ حَتَّى إِذَا بَلَغُوا إِلَيَّ قَالَ عُمَرُ بْنُ الْخَطَّابِ مَنْ أَنْتَ وَ مَا أَصْلُكَ وَ مَا حَسَبُكَ فَقَالَ النَّبِيُّ (صلى الله عليه وآله) فَمَا قُلْتَ لَهُ يَا سَلْمَانُ قَالَ قُلْتُ لَهُ أَنَا سَلْمَانُ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ كُنْتُ ضَالًّا فَهَدَانِي اللَّهُ عَزَّ ذِكْرُهُ بِمُحَمَّدٍ (صلى الله عليه وآله) وَ كُنْتُ عَائِلًا فَأَغْنَانِي اللَّهُ عَزَّ ذِكْرُهُ بِمُحَمَّدٍ (صلى الله عليه وآله) وَ كُنْتُ مَمْلُوكاً فَأَعْتَقَنِي اللَّهُ عَزَّ ذِكْرُهُ بِمُحَمَّدٍ (صلى الله عليه وآله) هَذَا نَسَبِي وَ هَذَا حَسَبِي فَقَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ (صلى الله عليه وآله) يَا مَعْشَرَ قُرَيْشٍ إِنَّ حَسَبَ الرَّجُلِ دِينُهُ وَ مُرُوءَتَهُ خُلُقُهُ وَ أَصْلَهُ عَقْلُهُ وَ قَالَ اللَّهُ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ إِنَّا خَلَقْناكُمْ مِنْ ذَكَرٍ وَ أُنْثى وَ جَعَلْناكُمْ شُعُوباً وَ قَبائِلَ لِتَعارَفُوا إِنَّ أَكْرَمَكُمْ عِنْدَ اللَّهِ أَتْقاكُمْ ثُمَّ قَالَ النَّبِيُّ (صلى الله عليه وآله) لِسَلْمَانَ لَيْسَ لِأَحَدٍ مِنْ هَؤُلَاءِ عَلَيْكَ فَضْلٌ إِلَّا بِتَقْوَى اللَّهِ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ وَ إِنْ كَانَ التَّقْوَى لَكَ عَلَيْهِمْ فَأَنْتَ أَفْضَلُ.

203. Ali b. Ibrahim [narrated] from Abdullah b. Muhammad b. Isa from Safwan b. Yahya from Hanan who said: I heard my father narrated from Abu Ja’far (عليه السلام) having said: ‘Salman (رضي الله عنه) was seated with a number of people from Quraysh in a Mosque. They started priding over their lineages and ancestry until they reached Salman (رضي الله عنه). Umar b. al-Khattab said to him, ‘Inform me who you are, and who your father is, and what your origin is’.  So he said: ‘I am Salman, son of a servant of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). I had strayed but Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) had guided me through Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), and I was needy so Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) enriched through Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), and I was owned [as a slave] so Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) freed me through Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). This is my lineage, and this is my nobility’.  So Rasulullah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) [came out and] said: 'O group of Quraysh, the nobility of a man is his Religion, and his chivalry is his manners, and his origin is his intellect, and Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has said: O mankind! Indeed, We created you from a male and a female, and made you nations and tribes that you may identify yourselves with one another.' {49:13}. Then the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) said to Salman, ‘There is no virtue over you from any of these ones except by taqwa (i.e., fear of Allah), and if there is piety in you [superior] to them, then you are more virtous [than them].'

- https://thaqalayn.net/hadith/8/1/203/1

 

Even Amirul Mumineen would ask through those whom Allah loves or has favoured (The Prophet, other Ambiyah etc):

1ـ مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عِيسَى عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ الله الْبَرْقِيِّ عَنْ عِيسَى بْنِ عَبْدِ الله الْقُمِّيِّ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ الله (عَلَيهِ السَّلام) قَالَ كَانَ أَمِيرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ (صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وآلِه) يَقُولُ إِذَا فَرَغَ مِنَ الزَّوَالِ اللهمَّ إِنِّي أَتَقَرَّبُ إِلَيْكَ بِجُودِكَ وَكَرَمِكَ وَأَتَقَرَّبُ إِلَيْكَ بِمُحَمَّدٍ عَبْدِكَ وَرَسُولِكَ وَأَتَقَرَّبُ إِلَيْكَ بِمَلائِكَتِكَ الْمُقَرَّبِينَ وَأَنْبِيَائِكَ الْمُرْسَلِينَ وَبِكَ اللهمَّ أَنْتَ الْغَنِيُّ عَنِّي وَبِيَ الْفَاقَةُ إِلَيْكَ أَنْتَ الْغَنِيُّ وَأَنَا الْفَقِيرُ إِلَيْكَ أَقَلْتَنِي عَثْرَتِي وَسَتَرْتَ عَلَيَّ ذُنُوبِي فَاقْضِ لِيَ الْيَوْمَ حَاجَتِي وَلا تُعَذِّبْنِي بِقَبِيحِ مَا تَعْلَمُ مِنِّي بَلْ عَفْوُكَ وَجُودُكَ يَسَعُنِي قَالَ ثُمَّ يَخِرُّ سَاجِداً وَيَقُولُ يَا أَهْلَ التَّقْوَى وَيَا أَهْلَ الْمَغْفِرَةِ يَا بَرُّ يَا رَحِيمُ أَنْتَ أَبَرُّ بِي مِنْ أَبِي وَأُمِّي وَمِنْ جَمِيعِ الْخَلائِقِ اقْبَلْنِي بِقَضَاءِ حَاجَتِي مُجَاباً دُعَائِي مَرْحُوماً صَوْتِي قَدْ كَشَفْتَ أَنْوَاعَ الْبَلايَا عَنِّي.

1. Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn ‘Isa from abu ‘Abd Allah al-Barqi from ‘Isa ibn ‘Abd Allah al-Qummi from Abu ‘Abdillah ((عليه السلام).) who has said the following: “Amir al-Mu’minin, Ali ibn abu Talib ((عليه السلام).) after completing the prayer at noon time would say, ‘O Lord, I seek nearness to You through Your generosity and magnanimity, I seek nearness to You through Muhammad, Your servant, and Your messenger, I seek nearness to You through Your favorite angels. Your messenger prophets and Your Own Self. O Lord, You are Self-sufficient and do not need me and I need You. You are wealthy and I am poor, correct my slips (mistakes) and cover up my sins, provide me help this day, do not punish me for the evil that You know of me, but pardon me and Your munificence may encompass me.’ The Imam said, ‘Then he would prostrate and say, “O You Who deserves people’s observing piety before Him, O You Who grants forgiveness, O Virtuous, and O Merciful, You are more kind to me than my father and mother and all the creatures, accept my plea in providing me help, answering my supplication and prayer, grant me favor for my call while You have already removed so many misfortunes from me.’” 

- https://thaqalayn.net/hadith/2/2/52/1

 

Thus, even if we were to accept this Khabar al-Wahid, it can be intepreted allegorically, because the entire tone of the Ahadith is allegorical and not restricted to only the Ahllubayt, but applied to the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and also applied to the Ambiya before them.  Similar to Allah creating us out of love of Muhammed (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is allegorical - it is to worship him and Muhammed (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) represents the pinnacle of worship. 

Nevertheless, one authentic Khabar al-Wahid if you want to take it literally when it clearly is allegorical is not probative. 

 

Bro. Inspector is correct on this one. The narration from tawhid saduq is authentic according to your standards. And it describes imams as light. 

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8 minutes ago, sunnism said:

Bro. Inspector is correct on this one. The narration from tawhid saduq is authentic according to your standards. And it describes imams as light. 

There is definitely a vested interest brother on your part for this to be proven in Shia works.

However, my contentions with the brother were not purely regarding 'light' itself - as i stated earlier in the thread and here is me quoting myself:

On 2/13/2024 at 5:07 AM, In Gods Name said:

nobody has any major issue with claiming the people who are the guides for us are metaphorically the light of God

Our issue is this:

1. You claim that Sayeda Fatima sa is superior to Ibrahim as - where's the evidence?

2. You claim Sayeda Fatima is laylatul Qadar - again evidence?

3. Your use of cursed people such as Ali b. Abi Hamzah as evidence in hadith 

4. Citing forged hadith such as the infamous one had it not been for you i would not have created Ali or Muhammed saw 

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My contention here is using that as proof of Wilayat Takwiniya and trying to justify a weak Ziyarah using it. It is a Khabar al-Wahid, it can not be used as evidence alone. 

Otherwise, you could justify the following absurd ahadith which are allegedly reliable but singular:
 

مُحَمَّدٌ عَنْ أَحْمَدَ عَنِ ابْنِ مَحْبُوبٍ عَنْ جَمِيلِ بْنِ صَالِحٍ عَنْ أَبَانِ بْنِ تَغْلِبَ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ (عليه السلام) قَالَ سَأَلْتُهُ عَنِ الْأَرْضِ عَلَى أَيِّ شَيْ‏ءٍ هِيَ قَالَ هِيَ عَلَى حُوتٍ قُلْتُ فَالْحُوتُ عَلَى أَيِّ شَيْ‏ءٍ هُوَ قَالَ عَلَى الْمَاءِ قُلْتُ فَالْمَاءُ عَلَى أَيِّ شَيْ‏ءٍ هُوَ قَالَ عَلَى صَخْرَةٍ قُلْتُ فَعَلَى أَيِّ شَيْ‏ءٍ الصَّخْرَةُ قَالَ عَلَى قَرْنِ ثَوْرٍ أَمْلَسَ قُلْتُ فَعَلَى أَيِّ شَيْ‏ءٍ الثَّوْرُ قَالَ عَلَى الثَّرَى قُلْتُ فَعَلَى أَيِّ شَيْ‏ءٍ الثَّرَى فَقَالَ هَيْهَاتَ عِنْدَ ذَلِكَ ضَلَّ عِلْمُ الْعُلَمَاءِ .

55. Muhammad, from Ahmad, from Ibn Mahboub, from Jameel Bin Saleh, from Aban Bin Tabligh has narrated the following: Abu Abdullah (asws) said, ‘I asked him (asws) about the earth, which thing does it rest upon?

He (asws) said: ‘It is upon the whale’. I said, ‘So the whale, which thing does it rest upon?’ He (asws) said: ‘Upon the water’. I said, ‘So the water, upon which thing does is rest upon?’ He (asws) said: ‘Upon a rock’. I said, ‘So upon which thing does the rock rest upon?’ He (asws) said: ‘Upon the horns of a bull’ I said, ‘So upon which thing does the bull rest upon?’ He (asws) said: ‘Upon the mist’. I said, ‘So upon which thing does the mist rest upon?’ He (asws) said: ‘This is how far knowledge of scholars is permitted (to reveal) and beyond this is straying’.

- https://thaqalayn.net/hadith/8/1/55/1

SAHEEH allegedly 

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Don't take the help of any Allamah e Dahar. Open the مجعم الرجال الحديث, check the chain of each hadith by yourself. 

Furthermore;

#6

أحمد بن إدريس، عن الحسين بن عبدالله الصغير، عن محمد بن إبراهيم الجعفري، عن أحمد بن علي بن محمد بن عبدالله بن عمر بن علي بن أبي طالب ، عن أبي عبدالله قال: إن الله كان إذ لا كان فخلق الكان والمكان وخلق نور الانوار الذي نورت منه الانوار وأجرى فيه من نوره الذي نورت منه الانوار وهو النور الذي خلق منه محمدا وعليا فلم يزالا نورين أولين، إذ لا شئ كون قبلهما، فلم يزالا يجريان طاهرين مطهرين في الاصلاب الطاهرة، حتى أفترقا في أطهر طاهرين في عبدالله وأبي طالب عليهم السلام

#7

علي بن محمد، عن سهل بن زياد، عن محمد بن علي بن إبراهيم، عن علي بن حماد، عن المفضل قال: قلت لابي عبدالله : كيف كنتم حيث كنتم في الاظلة؟ فقال يا مفضل كنا عند ربنا ليس عنده أحد غيرنا، في ظلة خضراء، نسبحه و نقدسه ونهلله ونمجده وما من ملك مقرب ولا ذيروح غيرنا حتى بدا له في خلق الاشياء، فخلق ما شاء كيف شاء من الملائكة وغيرهم، ثم أنهى علم ذلك إلينا

 

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@Abu_Zahra

This thread has went off topic. The main question asked has been replied. So close this thread

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"You claim that Sayeda Fatima sa is superior to Ibrahim as - where's the evidence?"

Where is the claim? Quote the claim right now.

And why I need to even claim anything while these ahadith themselves are evidence. 

a) Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and Ali (عليه السلام) were created from Noor e Wahid.

b) Ali (عليه السلام) appeared as nafs e Rasool in mubahila

c) Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is greater in status than any other Prophet. 

d) Make conclusion please..

:birthday:

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57 minutes ago, Inspector said:

 

معاني الاخبار صحيحة السند:
حدثنا محمد بن موسى بن المتوكل - رضي الله عنه - قال: حدثنا عبدالله بن جعفر الحميري، عن يعقوب بن يزيد، قال: حدثنا الحسن بن علي بن فضال، عن عبد الرحمن بن الحجاج، عن سدير الصيرفي، عن الصادق جعفر بن محمد، عن أبيه، عن جده عليهم السلام قال: قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه واله: خلق نور فاطمة عليها السلام قبل أن تخلق الارض والسماء .فقال بعض الناس: يانبي الله فليست هي إنسية؟ فقال صلى الله عليه وآله: فاطمة حوراء إنسية قال: يانبي الله وكيف هي حوراء إنسية؟ قال: خلقها الله عزوجل من نوره قبل أن يخلق آدم إذ كانت الارواح فلما خلق الله عزوجل آدم عرضت على آدم. قيل: يانبي الله وأين كانت فاطمة؟ قال: كانت في حقة تحت ساق العرش، قالوا: يانبي الله فما كان طعامها؟ قال: التسبيح، والتهليل، والتحميد. فلما خلق الله عزوجل آدم و أخرجني من صلبه أحب الله عزوجل أن يخرجها من صلبي جعلها تفاحة في الجنة و أتاني بها جبرئيل فقال لي: السلام عليك ورحمة الله وبركاته يا محمد، قلت: وعليك السلام ورحمة الله حبيبي جبرئيل. فقال: يامحمد إن ربك يقرئك السلام. قلت: منه السلام وإليه يعود السلام.قال: يامحمد إن هذه تفاحة أهداها الله عزوجل إليك من الجنة فأخذتها وضممتها إلى صدري. قال: يامحمد يقول الله جل جلاله: كلها. ففلقتها فرأيت نورا ساطعا ففزعت منه فقال: يامحمد مالك لا تأكل؟ كلها ولا تخف، فإن ذلك النور المنصورة في السماء وهي الارض فاطمة، قلت: حبيبي جبرئيل، ولم سميت في السماء " المنصورة " وفي الارض " فاطمة "؟ قال: سميت في الارض " فاطمة " لانها فطمت شيعتها من النار وفطم أعداء‌ها عن حبها، وهي في السماء " المصورة " وذلك قول الله
عزوجل: " يومئذ يفرح المؤمنون * بنصر الله ينصرمن يشاء " يعني نصر فاطمة لمحبيها

I guess these 5 are sufficient.

I am going to be doing some in-depth research into this one:

حدثنا محمد بن موسى بن المتوكل - رضي الله عنه - قال: حدثنا عبد الله بن جعفر الحميري، عن يعقوب بن يزيد، قال: حدثنا الحسن بن علي بن فضال، عن عبد الرحمن بن الحجاج، عن سدير الصيرفي، عن الصادق جعفر بن محمد، عن أبيه، عن جده عليهم السلام قال: قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله: خلق نور فاطمة عليها السلام قبل أن تخلق الأرض والسماء.فقال بعض الناس: يا نبي الله فليست هي إنسية؟ فقال صلى الله عليه وآله: فاطمة حوراء إنسية قال: يا نبي الله وكيف هي حوراء إنسية؟ قال: خلقها الله عز وجل من نوره قبل أن يخلق آدم إذ كانت الأرواح فلما خلق الله عز وجل آدم عرضت على آدم. قيل: يا نبي الله وأين كانت فاطمة؟ قال: كانت في حقة تحت ساق العرش، قالوا: يا نبي الله فما كان طعامها؟ قال: التسبيح، والتهليل، والتحميد. فلما خلق الله عز وجل آدم و أخرجني من صلبه أحب الله عز وجل أن يخرجها من صلبي جعلها تفاحة في الجنة و أتاني بها جبرئيل عليه السلام فقال لي: السلام عليك ورحمة الله وبركاته يا محمد، قلت: وعليك السلام ورحمة الله حبيبي جبرئيل. فقال: يا محمد إن ربك يقرئك السلام. قلت: منه السلام وإليه يعود السلام. قال: يا محمد إن هذه تفاحة أهداها الله عز وجل إليك من الجنة فأخذتها وضممتها إلى صدري. قال: يا محمد يقول الله جل جلاله: كلها. ففلقتها فرأيت نورا ساطعا ففزعت منه فقال: يا محمد مالك لا تأكل؟ كلها ولا تخف، فإن ذلك النور المنصورة في السماء وهي في الأرض فاطمة، قلت: حبيبي جبرئيل، ولم سميت في السماء " المنصورة " وفي الأرض " فاطمة "؟ قال: سميت في الأرض " فاطمة " لأنها فطمت شيعتها من النار وفطم أعداءها عن حبها، وهي في السماء " المنصورة " وذلك قول الله عز وجل: " يومئذ يفرح المؤمنون * بنصر الله ينصر من يشاء " يعني نصر فاطمة لمحبيها.

52. Narrated to us Muhammad bin Musa bin al-Mutawakkil (رضي الله عنه), who said: Narrated to us Abdullah bin Ja'far al-Humayri, from Ya'qub bin Yazid, who said: Narrated to us al-Hasan bin Ali bin Fudail, from Abdul Rahman bin al-Hajjaj, from Sudeir al-Sayrafi, from al-Sadiq Ja'far bin Muhammad (عليه السلام), from his father (عليه السلام), from his grandfather (عليه السلام) that Rasulullah (sw) said: "The light of Fatimah (عليه السلام) was created before the creation of the heavens and the earth." Some people said, "O Prophet of Allah, isn't she a human being?" He (sw) said, "Fatimah is a heavenly, human being." They asked, "O Prophet of Allah, how is she a heavenly, human being?" He said, "Allah, the Almighty, created her from His light before creating Adam when the souls were created. When Allah created Adam, the souls were presented to him." It was asked, "O Prophet of Allah, where was Fatimah at that time?" He said, "She was in a special place beneath the Throne." They asked, "O Prophet of Allah, what was her sustenance?" He said, "Her sustenance was glorification, praise, and exaltation." When Allah, the Almighty, created Adam and took me out from his loins, Allah loved to bring her out from my loins, so He made her a fruit in Paradise. Gabriel came to me with it and said, "Peace be upon you, O Muhammad, and the mercy of Allah and His blessings." I said, "And upon you be peace and the mercy of Allah and His blessings, O beloved Gabriel." He said, "O Muhammad, your Lord sends you greetings." I said, "From Him is peace, and to Him returns peace." He said, "O Muhammad, this is a fruit that Allah, the Almighty, has sent to you from Paradise." So, I took it and placed it on my chest. He said, "O Muhammad, Allah, the Majestic and Mighty, says, 'Eat it all.' So, I split it, and I saw a radiant light. I was startled by it, and he said, 'O Muhammad, why do you not eat? Eat all of it and do not be afraid. This light is victorious in the heavens, and on earth, it is Fatimah.'" I asked, "O beloved Gabriel, why is she called 'Al-Mansurah' in the heavens and 'Fatimah' on earth?" He said, "She is called 'Fatimah' on earth because she protects her followers from the fire and keeps her enemies away from her love. In the heavens, she is called 'Al-Mansurah,' and that is what Allah, the Almighty, says, 'On that day, the believers will rejoice in Allah's victory. He grants victory to whom He wills.' It means the victory of Fatimah for her lovers."

Maʿānī al-ʾAkhbār, The chapter of rare meanings, Hadith #51

https://thaqalayn.net/hadith/28/1/429/51

 

This is absolutely astounding.

Look at the claims made!

Sayeda Fatima, besides from being a light under the throne, gets turned into a fruit and put into heaven!

 

<>

This Hadith is startling. I am going to be making some serious enquiries.

Edited by In Gods Name
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