Father said he'd disown my sister if she married a non-Muslim.

[Guest Just some guy]

Tensions between my sister and my dad have been really high for a while and one of the tipping points was this. My dad said, if my sister were to marry a non-Muslim, he would disown her, period. My sister saw this as unnecessarily cruel and I don't think they've been in contact since. Is my dad's stance religiously backed by the Qur'an or any Hadith? Is it said that a parent should effectively cut off or disown their child if they marry outside the fold of Islam?

[laithAlIRAQI]

It's haram and if she goes through with it she's committing Zina. I'd say it's a big deal

And if she's valuing marrying someone non Muslim more than her own father, I'd say she has it coming.

To your question, silat al rahm is wajib and I doubt your father can just choose to disown her.

Edited February 10, 2024 by laithAlIRAQI

[kadhim]

I’m not aware of any Islamic primary text (Quran and Hadith) that could be raised to justify your father’s behavior. 

For one, as far as I am aware, there are no texts in the Quran or Hadith that touch on the scenario of a Muslim women marrying a generic non-Muslim. There are texts telling Muslim women not to marry mushriks or not to stay married to one at if she converts to Islam specifically. But nothing I recall that talks about the general case. 

Traditionally, our scholars basically unanimously say that a Muslim woman can not marry a non-Muslim, of whatever type, even a person of the book, because there is a Quran passage saying Muslim men can marry a kitabi woman but no corresponding passage for women. That’s the traditional mainstream interpretation. 

So on the level of a believing father, he’s justified in verbally expressing strong objection to such a marriage. 

And traditionally, a young Muslim woman is supposed to show a reasonable deference to her father’s guidance and seek his blessing (most would say permission) before marrying a man. So from a traditional perspective, your father is correct to think she is in the wrong here. 

Is her father in the right to disown her though? Not as far as I can see. Family is pretty sacred. You don’t break ties with family simply because they made a mistake or didn’t take your advice. 

[123xo]

Her marriage to that guy wouldn't even be valid it would be just her dating outside of marriage, which is a huge sin in Islam. 
 

@kadhim Culturally speaking a father can disown his adult son/daughter if they are constantly causing harm or distress (not small arguments or fights, but majour and constant disobeying and harming their parents/family directly).And/or bringIng shame to the family. For example, a daughter who is a prostitute her father can disown her, a son who is causing great harm to others ie, stealing/criminal activity and doing unlawful things his father can disown him. Also anyone who chooses to believe and practice any religion other than islam or becomes an atheist his/her father can disown them. That's just the Arab culture though not sure about other Muslims from different cultures. 

[kadhim]

3 minutes ago, 123xo said:

Culturally speaking a father can disown his adult son/daughter if they are constantly causing harm or distress (not small arguments or fights, but majour and constant disobeying and harming their parents/family directly).And/or bringIng shame to the family. For example, a daughter who is a prostitute her father can disown her, a son who is causing great harm to others ie, stealing/criminal activity and doing unlawful things his father can disown him. Also anyone who chooses to believe and practice any religion other than islam or becomes an atheist his/her father can disown them. That's just the Arab culture though not sure about other Muslims from different cultures. 

Yeah. Well, culture is its own other thing, right?

[123xo]

22 minutes ago, kadhim said:

Yeah. Well, culture is its own other thing, right?

Right

[notme]

I don't think disowning a family member is allowed at all, but he can distance himself from her and refuse to condone the marriage.

[Diaz]

I highly recommend your sister not to marry a non Muslim man and listen to her father, as a sister you should advise her. My dad’s cousin married a Hindu man because he was rich. At first her father stopped talking to her for many years until he became sick. They confronted each other and he told her before he pass away that he won’t be happy with her until she divorce her non Muslim husband or he convert to Islam. Sadly he passed away while not being happy with his daughter, her life is miserable since 5 years ago. 

[Abu Hadi]

7 hours ago, Guest Just some guy said:

Tensions between my sister and my dad have been really high for a while and one of the tipping points was this. My dad said, if my sister were to marry a non-Muslim, he would disown her, period. My sister saw this as unnecessarily cruel and I don't think they've been in contact since. Is my dad's stance religiously backed by the Qur'an or any Hadith? Is it said that a parent should effectively cut off or disown their child if they marry outside the fold of Islam?

Like others have said, it's haram and it would be the same as if she's doing zina except that because she is doing the sin publicly without repenting she would be considered a fasiqa (open sinner). That's a big deal and her actions have a good possibility of drawing down the wrath of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) on herself. 

This is a firm ruling with a basis in Quran and Hadith and agreed upon by all muslims. The most relevant Quranic verse to this is Quran 5:5. 

ٱلْيَوْمَ أُحِلَّ لَكُمُ ٱلطَّيِّبَـٰتُ وَطَعَامُ ٱلَّذِينَ أُوتُوا۟ ٱلْكِتَـٰبَ حِلٌّ لَّكُمْ وَطَعَامُكُمْ حِلٌّ لَّهُمْ وَٱلْمُحْصَنَـٰتُ مِنَ ٱلْمُؤْمِنَـٰتِ وَٱلْمُحْصَنَـٰتُ مِنَ ٱلَّذِينَ أُوتُوا۟ ٱلْكِتَـٰبَ مِن قَبْلِكُمْ إِذَآ ءَاتَيْتُمُوهُنَّ أُجُورَهُنَّ مُحْصِنِينَ غَيْرَ مُسَـٰفِحِينَ وَلَا مُتَّخِذِىٓ أَخْدَانٍ وَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِٱلْإِيمَـٰنِ فَقَدْ حَبِطَ عَمَلُهُۥ وَهُوَ فِى ٱلْـَٔاخِرَةِ مِنَ ٱلْخَـٰسِرِينَ

If you look at the underlined section of the verse, this is referring to Muslim men being allowed to marry women who are ahl al Kitab (Christian or jew). There is no such ayat or part of ayat which allows Muslim women to marry men who are ahl al Kitab. Since there are other verse which prohibit muslims, both men and women, from marrying polytheists, this means that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is telling us explicitly who we can marry in terms of religion if you take these verses as a unit. That is why all scholars (who are actually scholars, not e sheiks) conclude from these ayat that Muslim women are only allowed to marry Muslim men. 

At the same time, this does not mean that the father should cut off all contact with her. He should keep contact with her but ask her to repent and end this relationship. 

Edited February 11, 2024 by Abu Hadi

[Diaz]

25 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

At the same time, this does not mean that the father should cut off all contact with her. He should keep contact with her but ask her to repent and end this relationship

Yeah but that’s very hard specially for a father. People should understand and respect their parents, her father is worried about her afterlife so when he said he will cut his tie with her, he said that because he doesn’t want her to commit sin. I hope the op sister realize what she is going through if she does not follow her father decision.

[Falconary]

Standard problem of living in the west. Alhamduillah all my three Sisters married to devout Muslims of their own will even though they have been born and raised in a western country. I also think that your sister is unjustified in breaking ties with her dad just because he said what he said, if not she already had planned to marry a non muslim. 

[Guest Just some guy]

7 hours ago, laithAlIRAQI said:

It's haram and if she goes through with it she's committing Zina. I'd say it's a big deal

And if she's valuing marrying someone non Muslim more than her own father, I'd say she has it coming.

To your question, silat al rahm is wajib and I doubt your father can just choose to disown her.

Yeah I don't think its that simple to just disown someones child either. My sister was really offended by it though and it ended up driving her more away. What can you do I suppose. As least I'm glad to know it isn't sanctioned by Islam to just cut off a family member because they are indulgent in some sin.

[Guest Just some guy]

1 hour ago, Falconary said:

Standard problem of living in the west. Alhamduillah all my three Sisters married to devout Muslims of their own will even though they have been born and raised in a western country. I also think that your sister is unjustified in breaking ties with her dad just because he said what he said, if not she already had planned to marry a non muslim. 

That isn't the only point of tension between my sister and my dad. But I can't really do much about it at this point in time anyways. I just wish she hadn't fallen so deep into the Western perspective on feminism or whatever.

[Guest Just some guy]

7 hours ago, 123xo said:

Her marriage to that guy wouldn't even be valid it would be just her dating outside of marriage, which is a huge sin in Islam. 
 

@kadhim Culturally speaking a father can disown his adult son/daughter if they are constantly causing harm or distress (not small arguments or fights, but majour and constant disobeying and harming their parents/family directly).And/or bringIng shame to the family. For example, a daughter who is a prostitute her father can disown her, a son who is causing great harm to others ie, stealing/criminal activity and doing unlawful things his father can disown him. Also anyone who chooses to believe and practice any religion other than islam or becomes an atheist his/her father can disown them. That's just the Arab culture though not sure about other Muslims from different cultures. 

I mean a family is meant to exist there to support one another even in times of difficulty and sin. Many people indulge in sin because of their lack of (familial) support, not in spite of it. If we started disowning one another on the basis of what sins they are openly committing, then by Allah Islam would have become way more splintered and degenerate centuries ago.

[123xo]

4 hours ago, Guest Just some guy said:

I mean a family is meant to exist there to support one another even in times of difficulty and sin. Many people indulge in sin because of their lack of (familial) support, not in spite of it. If we started disowning one another on the basis of what sins they are openly committing, then by Allah Islam would have become way more splintered and degenerate centuries ago.

I didn't say in islam i said culturally speaking.  

[kadhim]

16 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

If you look at the underlined section of the verse, this is referring to Muslim men being allowed to marry women who are ahl al Kitab (Christian or jew). There is no such ayat or part of ayat which allows Muslim women to marry men who are ahl al Kitab. Since there are other verse which prohibit muslims, both men and women, from marrying polytheists, this means that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is telling us explicitly who we can marry in terms of religion if you take these verses as a unit.

Not to drag out a tangent or make too big a deal about it, but I do want to observe that as a reasoning, this is more suggestive than conclusive. 

It’s not an unreasonable interpretation, but it is in some sense making an inference beyond what the text says by itself. I wouldn’t call it a bulletproof argument.

For example one kind of obvious counter-argument would be:

“In Islam, things are generally halal until you have a clear evidence it’s not. The text doesn’t explicitly rule this out for Muslim women here in the way He has explicitly ruled out certain types of unions in other cases (marriages to the subset of non-Muslims who are mushrikeen, for example). If He wanted to ban interfaith marriages for Muslim women universally, in an definitive way, He would have spelled that out rather than leaving it to indirect inference. His leaving it unspecified implies that He wanted to leave the door open to discuss in future generations, whether it makes sense in a given context or not.”

I think that’s a reasonable interpretation too.

Now. Does this mean I’m promoting that point of view here? No, not necessarily. And even if we entertain this as an option, is it generally speaking a good idea to marry outside the faith if you’re serious about it? No. And that applies to Muslim men and women alike. 

 

Edited February 11, 2024 by kadhim

[Shian e Ali]

https://www.al-islam.org/printpdf/book/export/html/40373

I came across this from another thread. I’m unable to copy each narration on my mobile but if you look for the word “disown”, it shows a couple of related narrations. 
 

Can someone confirm if they’re authentic or not? 

Edited February 11, 2024 by Shian e Ali

[Abu Hadi]

2 hours ago, kadhim said:

Not to drag out a tangent or make too big a deal about it, but I do want to observe that as a reasoning, this is more suggestive than conclusive. 

It’s not an unreasonable interpretation, but it is in some sense making an inference beyond what the text says by itself. I wouldn’t call it a bulletproof argument.

For example one kind of obvious counter-argument would be:

“In Islam, things are generally halal until you have a clear evidence it’s not. The text doesn’t explicitly rule this out for Muslim women here in the way He has explicitly ruled out certain types of unions in other cases (marriages to the subset of non-Muslims who are mushrikeen, for example). If He wanted to ban interfaith marriages for Muslim women universally, in an definitive way, He would have spelled that out rather than leaving it to indirect inference. His leaving it unspecified implies that He wanted to leave the door open to discuss in future generations, whether it makes sense in a given context or not.”

I think that’s a reasonable interpretation too.

Now. Does this mean I’m promoting that point of view here? No, not necessarily. And even if we entertain this as an option, is it generally speaking a good idea to marry outside the faith if you’re serious about it? No. And that applies to Muslim men and women alike. 

 

I agree that in itself is not conclusive evidence. I was only posting it in response to the OPs request asking for an ayat in the Quran that gives proof.

In addition to this ayat there are many authentic Hadith from both Sunni and Shia sources that reinforce the conclusion that a Muslim women cannot marry a non Muslim man. That is why there is unanimity amount both Sunni and Shia ulema on this subject

Edited February 11, 2024 by Abu Hadi

[In Gods Name]

I honestly think she needs to sit down and re-think this.

Falling in love according to some studies can be as powerful as a cocaine hit. 

It might seem rosy, she might feel she has spiritually connected with this person, but in all honesty, the likelihood is that the marriage will break down. If it doesn't she will be in perpetual sin, and like brother Abu Hadi has said, she will be openly sinning regularly and not even repenting because she doesn't think what she is doing is wrong.

If she wants to be with this guy, then let him convert. Let him take the Shahadah and embrace Islam.

Otherwise, long term this can be painful for her hereafter, her relationship with family, and honestly if a child gets into the picture it can get seriously messy.

A gentle approach might be best, sitting her down, projecting these things, digging deeper into how this guy makes her feel, why she feels in love, and listening to her too.

[Shian e Ali]

On 2/10/2024 at 1:38 PM, 123xo said:

Her marriage to that guy wouldn't even be valid it would be just her dating outside of marriage, which is a huge sin in Islam. 
 

@kadhim Culturally speaking a father can disown his adult son/daughter if they are constantly causing harm or distress (not small arguments or fights, but majour and constant disobeying and harming their parents/family directly).And/or bringIng shame to the family. For example, a daughter who is a prostitute her father can disown her, a son who is causing great harm to others ie, stealing/criminal activity and doing unlawful things his father can disown him. Also anyone who chooses to believe and practice any religion other than islam or becomes an atheist his/her father can disown them. That's just the Arab culture though not sure about other Muslims from different cultures. 

Mixing culture with religion destroys one’s beliefs. This woman in topic is probably just following the cultural norm of interfaith marriage just like some other follow the norm of intersect marriages, both seeking love over Deen. 

[kadhim]

Addendum: I misspoke earlier. 
There is no hadith that speaks specifically to the case where a Muslim woman wants to contract a marriage with a non-Muslim. That doesn’t seem to have been a case that people thought to bring up. However, there are hadith about the case where two kitabi people are married, and the woman becomes Muslim. In this case, the hadith say the marriage is void if the man doesn’t want to convert after attempts to persuade him.

See for example:

https://thaqalayn.net/chapter/5/3/86

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 2/11/2024 at 5:13 AM, Guest Just some guy said:

I mean a family is meant to exist there to support one another even in times of difficulty and sin. Many people indulge in sin because of their lack of (familial) support, not in spite of it. If we started disowning one another on the basis of what sins they are openly committing, then by Allah Islam would have become way more splintered and degenerate centuries ago.

Salam , this concept exists in Islam as Āqq al-Wālidayn (Arabic: عاق الوالدین)  which is one of greatest sins which preserving Islam is by Allah & by his caliphs on earth as infallibles as prophet muhammad (pbu) & lady Fatima   (sa) & 12 infallible Imams which if children will be disowned by parents or even parents will be disowned by their children ,so then it won't be splintered and degenerate but on the other hand real losers are disowned people . 

On 2/11/2024 at 5:07 AM, Guest Just some guy said:

Yeah I don't think its that simple to just disown someones child either. My sister was really offended by it though and it ended up driving her more away. What can you do I suppose. As least I'm glad to know it isn't sanctioned by Islam to just cut off a family member because they are indulgent in some sin.

 

23 hours ago, 123xo said:

I didn't say in islam i said culturally speaking.  

Disobedience to Parents or 'Āqq al-Wālidayn (Arabic: عاق الوالدین) or 'Uqūq al-Wālidayn (Arabic: عقوق الوالدین) is among greater sins and moral vices referring to any form of annoying father and mother or either of them by tongue or action. 

Mulla Mahdi Naraqi mentioned disobedience to parents the worst form of cutting relationship with relatives and believed that whatever criticism applicable to cutting relationship with relatives, can also be applied to disobedience to parents ('Aqq al-walidayn). He also considers disobedience to parents among moral vices related with the faculties of anger and passion, which originates from hatred, anger or miserliness and excessive love of the world.[3]

Consequences

Quote

• Deprivation of the paradise and receiving its smell:^[10] based on a hadith from Imam al-Sadiq (a), on the Judgement day, a veil from the veils of the paradise will be removed and its smell will reach any being at a distance of five hundred years, except to those who have been a subject of "disobedient of parents".^[11] Also, in different hadiths, it is mentioned about such people that they will not enter the paradise.^[12]

• Entering the Hell^[13]

• Not accepting the prayer: in a hadith, it is mentioned that a person who looks with enmity at his oppressive father and mother, God will not accept his prayer.^[14]

• Not fulfillment of supplications^[15]

• Punishment in this world: in a hadith from the Prophet (s), "disobedience to parents" is considered among the sins, the committer of which will receive the punishment for it in this world.^[16] Mulla Ahmad Naraqi said that it is seen that disobedience to parents bears shortness of life, bitterness of life, poverty, misery, agony of death and their intensity.^[17]

• Punishment of the grave: according to Mulla Mahdi Naraqi said that a person whose mother is not content with him will have intense agonies of death and punishments of the grave.^[18]

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Disobedience_to_Parents

Quote

Child's detachment (Āqq ) of parents

It has been mentioned in the narrations that the issue of estrangement is two-way and just as parents can estrange their children because of hurting and harassing them, children can also estrange their parents because of the oppression they have done about them.
The Holy Prophet of Islam says: Parents are also detachment of children and they become detachment of their children, just as children become detachment of their parents. (Al-Kafi, vol. 6, p. 48)

https://hadana.ir/عاق-والدین-بعد-از-مرگ/

 

[Hameedeh]

On 2/10/2024 at 10:39 AM, Guest Just some guy said:

Tensions between my sister and my dad have been really high for a while and one of the tipping points was this. My dad said, if my sister were to marry a non-Muslim, he would disown her, period. My sister saw this as unnecessarily cruel and I don't think they've been in contact since. 

It seems your sister is interested to marry someone that your father does not approve of (non-Muslim). Your sister lives somewhere else, not with your father?

[Hameedeh]

On 2/15/2024 at 1:07 PM, Hameedeh said:

It seems your sister is interested to marry someone that your father does not approve of (non-Muslim). 

Or maybe she was just telling him she can marry whoever she wants without his permission? Is she being rebellious or you are asking a hypothetical question about her possibly marrying a non-Muslim? 

On 2/15/2024 at 1:07 PM, Hameedeh said:

Your sister lives somewhere else, not with your father?

If she lives somewhere else, your father already has very little contact with her.