Allah has eyes, a foot, a shin a little bit like ours - Ibn Uthaymeen

[In Gods Name]

This is the most repulsive belief that the modern Salafi movement, anyone who believes in this has likened Allah to his creation, they have forgone their own minds and Wallah this is absolutely disgusting. Don't talk about Ghadir, or Imamah or anything like that. The kryptonite of those who are Mujassima is Tawheed in Asma wal Sifat. Bite on this topic and refuse to discuss anything else. Salafi's absolutely refuse to discuss and debate this.

 

Ibn ‘Uthaymin (d. 1421 AH) said [as mentioned in the book Majmu’ Fatawa wa Rasa`il Ibn ‘Uthaymin]:

فإذا قلت: ما هي الصورة التي تكون لله ويكون آدم عليها؟ قلنا: إن الله عز وجل له وجه, وله عين, وله يد, وله رجل – عز وجل – لكن لا يلزم من أن تكون هذه الأشياء مماثلة للإنسان، فهناك شيء من الشبه لكنه ليس على سبيل المماثلة، كما أن الزمرة الأولى من أهل الجنة فيها شبه من القمر لكن بدون مماثلة

If it is asked: What is the image (Sura) that Allah and Adam are [both] upon?
Then we say: Allah – ‘azza wa jall – has a face, an eye, a hand, a foot -‘azza wa jall-, but this does not necessitate that these [descriptions] are like that of human beings, for there is some [sort of] of similarity (!), but not upon the way of likeness (Mumathala); just like the first group from the people of paradise are similar to the moon (i.e. shining), but without likeness.

، كما لو قلت وجه الفرس ووجه القط الهر هل تفهم من قولك وجه الفرس أنه مثل وجه الهر ؟ أبداً

We say for example “face of Allah” and we do not just say “face” in general [terms], because the face of Allah is befitting to His essence or befitting His essence.Just like when you say “face of a horse” and “face of a cat”: Do you understand from your statement “face of a horse” that it is like (mithl) the “face of a cat”?Never…

 

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Deobandis have also declared Salafi's as Miujassima:
 

 

[Guest111]

I am a little conflicted on this issue. My understanding of it is that I will never fathom the true nature of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) but at the same time cannot ignore His words mentioning such attributes, although to me it seems much more likely to be allegorical rather than Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) literally looking just like a human being.

 

Do salafis really just declare outright anthropomorphism or is their position more nuanced than that?

Edited November 21, 2023 by Guest111

[In Gods Name]

7 hours ago, Guest111 said:

I am a little conflicted on this issue. My understanding of it is that I will never fathom the true nature of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) but at the same time cannot ignore His words mentioning such attributes, although to me it seems much more likely to be allegorical rather than Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) literally looking just like a human being.

Do salafis really just declare outright anthropomorphism or is their position more nuanced than that?

Having extensively studied this area, which is my primary interest in Islam, i would say the following:

In the Sunni sect, there are three schools of Aqeedah: Ashari , Maturidi, and Athari.

Today, the majority are Asharis and Maturidis. The Atharis are regarded by Asharis as being valid but they do not deem the modern day Salafis who claim to be Atharis, like Ahmad. B Hanbal to be truly Athari but rather they have gone beyond.

What Asharis and Maturidis say this is:

1. Allah can not have limbs, appendages, or be limited to space, location, time etc. He himself created these things, and thus you can not make Allah into parts, or liken him to the creation.

2. However when Allah uses the words 'hands' or claim he 'istiwa' over the throne, they use the words of Imam Malik, who said al Istiwahu Ma'aloom, wa Kayffiyah Majhul.  Meaning, we know the meaning or the word, but the howness we do not know.

Now, Asharis, Maturidis and modern Salalafis are divided over this nuance.

The Asharis/Maturidis say, when Allah says he has made Adam with his own two hands, they say the word 'hand' is used by Allah but it does not mean a limb, appendage, or hand, but rather the meaning itself is with Allah. However , because Sahaba, like Ibn Abbas would perform T'awil, they say it is permissible to perform T'awil as possible meanings without claiming that is the definite meaning. I.E hands being special creation, or power.

Modern day Salafis however say the meaning of hand is known i.e. a limb, but Allahs hand is not like our hand. Asharis and Maturidis would refute them by saying you have likened Allah to the creation and provided a continuity by claiming Allah has parts.

Thus Asharis/Maturidis say, the word 'Yad' itself we can not even translate as hand, rather we just say 'Yad' and Allah knows best what he means by 'Yad'.

[In Gods Name]

7 hours ago, Guest111 said:

I am a little conflicted on this issue. My understanding of it is that I will never fathom the true nature of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) but at the same time cannot ignore His words mentioning such attributes, although to me it seems much more likely to be allegorical rather than Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) literally looking just like a human being.

Do salafis really just declare outright anthropomorphism or is their position more nuanced than that?

Bear in mind, Tashbeeh is not just saying Allah is not literally looking like just a human. Elephants have a face, but that is not similar to our face.

Bacteria have limbs but not similar to our limbs.

Anyone who claims Allah, the Almighty, has appendages, parts, or is limited by space, is a Kaffir, and has comitted Kufr al-Akhbar as per the majority of Muslims, who are:

Asharis/Maturidis (Barelvis, Deobandis, North African and other region Maliki/Shafii) and also the Shia and Zaydiyya who make up about 80% of Muslims.

Ones deeds will be total dust, it is clear cut batil to even think of Allah having appendages, or parts etc. 

This is perhaps the clearest issue in Islam, but brings major infighting. 

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Also remember the Quran only uses words like 'face' and 'hands' which even as per Sunni hadith Ibn Abbas has given T'awil for i.e. power.

It is Bukhari who brings ridiculous ahadith like Allah will put his foot into Hell and it will say 'Qata' Qata' enough enough etc, fingers, a shin , descends etc

[Guest111]

Does the 12er view differ from Asharis and Maturidis in this regard?

Also I hear that Ismailis have a particular stance where they reject any attributes or features of Allah altogether, although I haven't looked into their views in much detail.

[Abu Nur]

8 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

The Asharis/Maturidis say, when Allah says he has made Adam with his own two hands, they say the word 'hand' is used by Allah but it does not mean a limb, appendage, or hand, but rather the meaning itself is with Allah.

Salam Aleikum, 

So for them it is absolutely haram to say two hands refers to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) lutf? Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) says something about himself but no one knows what it could mean makes sense? 

The biggest hint is Quran itself:

Nay, but both His hands are outspread [5:64].

Edited November 21, 2023 by Abu Nur

[Abu Nur]

8 hours ago, Guest111 said:

Does the 12er view differ from Asharis and Maturidis in this regard?

Every answer is in Qur'an about face of Allah and hand of Allah, rose above his Throne, it is Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) who threw etc. They try to include Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) eyes in following verse:

“It (Nuh’s ark) sailed under the watch of Our eyes, as a reward for those (believers) who were rejected.” [Al-Qamar 54:14]

When it is clear that this is a meaning of Guardianship and Oversight. Which is the verse itself answer by saying under God watch (trough the angels and other creations.) 

There is no mention of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) fingers, Leg, Foot in Quran. These are all fabrications from hadiths. 

Edited November 21, 2023 by Abu Nur

[AbuMetal9]

On 11/21/2023 at 6:42 AM, In Gods Name said:

This is the most repulsive belief that the modern Salafi movement, anyone who believes in this has likened Allah to his creation, they have forgone their own minds and Wallah this is absolutely disgusting. Don't talk about Ghadir, or Imamah or anything like that. The kryptonite of those who are Mujassima is Tawheed in Asma wal Sifat. Bite on this topic and refuse to discuss anything else. Salafi's absolutely refuse to discuss and debate this.

 

Ibn ‘Uthaymin (d. 1421 AH) said [as mentioned in the book Majmu’ Fatawa wa Rasa`il Ibn ‘Uthaymin]:

فإذا قلت: ما هي الصورة التي تكون لله ويكون آدم عليها؟ قلنا: إن الله عز وجل له وجه, وله عين, وله يد, وله رجل – عز وجل – لكن لا يلزم من أن تكون هذه الأشياء مماثلة للإنسان، فهناك شيء من الشبه لكنه ليس على سبيل المماثلة، كما أن الزمرة الأولى من أهل الجنة فيها شبه من القمر لكن بدون مماثلة

If it is asked: What is the image (Sura) that Allah and Adam are [both] upon?
Then we say: Allah – ‘azza wa jall – has a face, an eye, a hand, a foot -‘azza wa jall-, but this does not necessitate that these [descriptions] are like that of human beings, for there is some [sort of] of similarity (!), but not upon the way of likeness (Mumathala); just like the first group from the people of paradise are similar to the moon (i.e. shining), but without likeness.

، كما لو قلت وجه الفرس ووجه القط الهر هل تفهم من قولك وجه الفرس أنه مثل وجه الهر ؟ أبداً

We say for example “face of Allah” and we do not just say “face” in general [terms], because the face of Allah is befitting to His essence or befitting His essence.Just like when you say “face of a horse” and “face of a cat”: Do you understand from your statement “face of a horse” that it is like (mithl) the “face of a cat”?Never…

 

<>

Deobandis have also declared Salafi's as Miujassima:
 

 

Blud quoted one scholar and pushed that onto the majority of the salafis

[In Gods Name]

Bumping this brothers and sisters - 

What the Salafi Shaykh Uthaymeen has done is claim there is similarity between the creator and creation.

Watch the video by the Deobandi Shaykh.

[Abu Nur]

On 4/2/2024 at 12:14 AM, In Gods Name said:

Bumping this brothers and sisters - 

What the Salafi Shaykh Uthaymeen has done is claim there is similarity between the creator and creation.

Watch the video by the Deobandi Shaykh.

Everything that human mind can derive from their thoughts and knowledge is part of philosophy, this is because we are rational beings who inquire about reality and knowledge. So their thoughts that we need to admit that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) have hand but we don't know how is their scholars inquire and conclusion which is also philosophy.

I make this statement so they could not run and call others as Aristotelian innovation and they as pure thoughts directed from God.

Edited April 3, 2024 by Abu Nur

[145_turbo_16V]

Abu Musab Al Akkar also said something similar and Muhammad Hjab roasted him lol.