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In the Name of God بسم الله

We Shias love 12,000 Sahaba, Ridhwanullah Alayhim

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In Gods Name

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28-5 حدثنا أحمد بن زياد بن جعفر الهمداني رضي الله عنه قال: حدثنا علي ابن إبراهيم بن هاشم، عن أبيه، عن محمد بن أبي عمير، عن هشام بن سالم، عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام قال: كان أصحاب رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله اثني عشر ألفا ثمانية آلاف من المدينة، وألفان من مكة، وألفان من الطلقاء، ولم ير فيهم قدري ولا مرجي ولا حروري ولا معتزلي، ولا صحاب رأي، كانوا يبكون الليل والنهار ويقولون: اقبض أرواحنا من قبل أن نأكل خبز الخمير

28-5 Ahmad ibn Zyad ibn Ja’far al-Hamedany - may God be pleased with him - narrated that Ali ibn Ibrahim ibn Hashim quoted his father, on the authority of Muhammad ibn Abi Umayr, on the authority of Hisham ibn Salim that Aba Abdullah as-Sadiq (MGB) said, “There were twelve-thousand companions for God’s Prophet (MGB). Eight-thousand of them were from Medina, two-thousand of them were from Mecca and another two-thousand of them were the free atheist who had become Muslims. There were no Qadarites , Marajites, Kharajites , schismatics (Mo’tazelites), nor any who act according to their own opinions. They cried day and night and said, ‘O God! Please take away our souls before we eat barley bread.’”

- https://thaqalayn.net/hadith/10/29/4/1

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This chain is SAHEEH

Surah-Taubah-Ayat-117.png

 

 

 

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مُّحَمَّدٌ رَّسُولُ اللَّهِ ۚ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ أَشِدَّاءُ عَلَى الْكُفَّارِ رُحَمَاءُ بَيْنَهُمْ ۖ تَرَاهُمْ رُكَّعًا سُجَّدًا يَبْتَغُونَ فَضْلًا مِّنَ اللَّهِ وَرِضْوَانًا ۖ سِيمَاهُمْ فِي وُجُوهِهِم مِّنْ أَثَرِ السُّجُودِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ مَثَلُهُمْ فِي التَّوْرَاةِ ۚ وَمَثَلُهُمْ فِي الْإِنجِيلِ كَزَرْعٍ أَخْرَجَ شَطْأَهُ فَآزَرَهُ فَاسْتَغْلَظَ فَاسْتَوَىٰ عَلَىٰ سُوقِهِ يُعْجِبُ الزُّرَّاعَ لِيَغِيظَ بِهِمُ الْكُفَّارَ ۗ وَعَدَ اللَّهُ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ مِنْهُم مَّغْفِرَةً وَأَجْرًا عَظِيمًا

Shakir

Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those with him are firm of heart against the unbelievers, compassionate among themselves; you will see them bowing down, prostrating themselves, seeking grace from Allah and pleasure; their marks are in their faces because of the effect of prostration; that is their description in the Taurat and their description in the Injeel; like as seed-produce that puts forth its sprout, then strengthens it, so it becomes stout and stands firmly on its stem, delighting the sowers that He may enrage the unbelievers on account of them; Allah has promised those among them who believe and do good, forgiveness and a great reward. (48:29)

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2 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

علي ابن إبراهيم بن هاشم

@In Gods Name this person used to believe in Tehreef in Quran you cannot quote him. His hadiths are not sahih for you.

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2 minutes ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

@In Gods Name this person used to believe in Tehreef in Quran you cannot quote him. His hadiths are not sahih for you.

That isn't how it works dear brother.

Someone can have improper Aqeedah but truthfully transmit what they heard.

If he believed in Tahreef, he is a Jahil in Aqeedah, but he was still on Tashayyu at least in other aspects and Saduq. 

We have the concept of Muwathaq grading for Non-Shi'i

Edited by In Gods Name
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17 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

This chain is SAHEEH

Out of 120,000 companion who have attended the last hajj and out of 25,000 who embraced martyrdom in the battle of Siffin alone from Imam Ali's side. And out of 45000 people who were killed in Siffin from Muawiyyah's side. Some 5000 were martyred from Imam Ali's Army in Jamal and some 25000 killed in the same battle from Aisha's Army. 

I doubt on the numbers mentioned in this hadith. We love more than 12000 Companions. Count all those who embraced martyrdom from Jamal to Karbala (in fight against the taghoot). May peace & blessings of Allah s w.t be with them. 

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Start your counting from Malik bin Nuwerah (رضي الله عنه) to the last companion Habib ibn Mazahir (رضي الله عنه). to Jabir bin Abdullah al-Ansari (رضي الله عنه).

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22 hours ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

@In Gods Name this person used to believe in Tehreef in Quran you cannot quote him. His hadiths are not sahih for you.

 

On 11/1/2023 at 9:55 AM, Muslim2010 said:

مُّحَمَّدٌ رَّسُولُ اللَّهِ ۚ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ أَشِدَّاءُ عَلَى الْكُفَّارِ رُحَمَاءُ بَيْنَهُمْ ۖ تَرَاهُمْ رُكَّعًا سُجَّدًا يَبْتَغُونَ فَضْلًا مِّنَ اللَّهِ وَرِضْوَانًا ۖ سِيمَاهُمْ فِي وُجُوهِهِم مِّنْ أَثَرِ السُّجُودِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ مَثَلُهُمْ فِي التَّوْرَاةِ ۚ وَمَثَلُهُمْ فِي الْإِنجِيلِ كَزَرْعٍ أَخْرَجَ شَطْأَهُ فَآزَرَهُ فَاسْتَغْلَظَ فَاسْتَوَىٰ عَلَىٰ سُوقِهِ يُعْجِبُ الزُّرَّاعَ لِيَغِيظَ بِهِمُ الْكُفَّارَ ۗ وَعَدَ اللَّهُ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ مِنْهُم مَّغْفِرَةً وَأَجْرًا عَظِيمًا

Shakir

Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those with him are firm of heart against the unbelievers, compassionate among themselves; you will see them bowing down, prostrating themselves, seeking grace from Allah and pleasure; their marks are in their faces because of the effect of prostration; that is their description in the Taurat and their description in the Injeel; like as seed-produce that puts forth its sprout, then strengthens it, so it becomes stout and stands firmly on its stem, delighting the sowers that He may enrage the unbelievers on account of them; Allah has promised those among them who believe and do good, forgiveness and a great reward. (48:29)

Allah has promised those among them who believe and do good, forgiveness and a great reward.

Thus all the companions of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) are not covered in this verse except the truthful ones. 

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13 hours ago, Guest Cool said:

Out of 120,000 companion who have attended the last hajj and out of 25,000 who embraced martyrdom in the battle of Siffin alone from Imam Ali's side. And out of 45000 people who were killed in Siffin from Muawiyyah's side. Some 5000 were martyred from Imam Ali's Army in Jamal and some 25000 killed in the same battle from Aisha's Army. 

I doubt on the numbers mentioned in this hadith. We love more than 12000 Companions. Count all those who embraced martyrdom from Jamal to Karbala (in fight against the taghoot). May peace & blessings of Allah s w.t be with them. 

Well said , Ashsantukum.

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13 hours ago, Guest Cool said:

And also include those who embraced martyrdom in the life of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), those include Hamza, Ja'far, Zayd etc. 

 

Indeed, even men like Abdullah b. Masud, Abu Sai'd al Khudri, Ubay b.K'ab, Jabir b. Abdillah al-Ansari, Ibn Abbas, Abu Ayyub al-Ansaari, Umm Salama, Umm Maymuna, Umm Sauda etc

Then you have legends of the Sahaba, like Abu Dujana who we have long narrations about his heroics in some of the battles, and you have people like Juwaira who an entire Hadith is in our books in his praise. 

Put aside Ammar b. Yasir, Salaman al Farsi, Miqdad al Aswad, Hazrat Bilal, Jaffer at Tayyar, Hazrat Hamzah , Hazrat Abu Talib etc ..

We don't like Abu Sufiyan, we don't like Mu'awiyah, or his son Yazid, or his mother Hind. How is rejecting Mu'awiyah like rejecting all the Sahaba man? Mu'awiyah went to war with Ali, forced Hasan into a peace treaty, and then created a seat of power in Sham and put in an evil man like Yazid, his own son, to carry on his family dynasty. The Ummayads would curse Ali in the Jummah in Medina itself according to Ibn Kathir. Muawiyah even asked some of the Sahaba, why don't you curse Ali, according to Saheeh Muslim - what sort of stupid question is that?

If Zubayr didn't side against Ali in Jamal, even he would be loved, because he joined with Ali and opposed Saqifah. He was one of the ones threatened by Umar to come out of the house. I don't believe Umar did anything more , but the threat itself is a huge condemnable act. Nobody should dare condemn to burn down the house where Fatima, Ali, Hasan and Hussain are literally inside. 

We love a huge percent of the Sahaba, and we don't judge the majority. Just because we take issue with a handful who literally fought, cursed, and led to the slaughter of many sahaba and ahlulbayt, somehow we hate the sahaba?

Our Sunni brothers/sisters have to defend this innovation called adl of the Sahaba. They blanket claim anyone who saw the Prophet and outwardly died Muslim can not be criticised. Therefore they claim all 120,000 of them are all just. 

We say come on man, even in your mosque there are people who are outwardly Muslim but inwardly not, and who create fitnah. Any large group of people have a mix of characters, how can you blanket authenticate every single one of them?

Edited by In Gods Name
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13 hours ago, Guest Cool said:

Start your counting from Malik bin Nuwerah (رضي الله عنه) to the last companion Habib ibn Mazahir (رضي الله عنه). to Jabir bin Abdullah al-Ansari (رضي الله عنه).

For the life of me, when Bukhari narrates how Khalid b. Walid slaughtered those people, how can you call this man the sword of Allah? He murdered innocent people, and even pious sahaba refused to join in with his murdering. How is this guy the sword of Allah, please explain to me ? Again to defend the Bidah of blanket Tawtheeq and Adl of every single Sahaba , you can't even critically look at things like this.

If you

Narrated Ibn `Umar:

The Prophet (ﷺ) sent (an army unit under the command of) Khalid bin Al-Walid to fight against the tribe of Bani Jadhima and those people could not express themselves by saying, "Aslamna," but they said, "Saba'na! Saba'na! " Khalid kept on killing some of them and taking some others as captives, and he gave a captive to everyone of us and ordered everyone of us to kill his captive. I said, "By Allah, I shall not kill my captive and none of my companions shall kill his captive!" Then we mentioned that to the Prophet (ﷺ) and he said, "O Allah! I am free from what Khalid bin Al-Walid has done," and repeated it twice.

https://sunnah.com/bukhari:7189

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2 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

Our Sunni brothers/sisters have to defend this innovation called adl of the Sahaba

Not only this but they also need to redefine who are sahaba in light of the verse of al-Jumma where Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) said:

وَآخَرِينَ مِنْهُمْ لَمَّا يَلْحَقُوا بِهِمْ

62:3] And others from among them who have not yet joined them;

According to Quran, the doors of companionship of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) are open till the day of judgement as a verse mentions:

إِنَّ رَبَّكَ يَعْلَمُ أَنَّكَ تَقُومُ أَدْنَىٰ مِنْ ثُلُثَيِ اللَّيْلِ وَنِصْفَهُ وَثُلُثَهُ وَطَائِفَةٌ مِنَ الَّذِينَ مَعَكَ

73:20] Surely your Lord knows that you pass in prayer nearly two-thirds of the night, and (sometimes) half of it, and (sometimes) a third of it, "and (also) a party of those with you"

The معيت mentioned in above verse is still open, anyone can chose to enjoy the companionship of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) by start offering salat al-layl. 

See how easy it is to become the companion of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and how difficult it is to prove yourself that you are true in your allegiance with him (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)!  

 According to our belief, those who helped Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) in Karbala, were the helpers of Imam Hassan (عليه السلام), Imam Ali (عليه السلام), Syeda Fatima سلام الله عليها، and Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). That's why we offer salutation to those martyrs by saying:

السَّلامُ عَلَيكُم يا أولِياءَ اللهِ وأحِبّاءَهُ، السَّلامُ عَلَيكُم يا أصفِياءَ اللهِ وأوِدّاءَهُ، السَّلامُ عَلَيكُم يا أنصارَ دينِ اللهِ، السَّلامُ عَلَيكُم يا أنصارَ رَسُولِ اللهِ، السَّلامُ عَلَيكُم يا أنصارَ أميرِ المُؤمِنينَ، السَّلامُ عَلَيكُم يا أنصارَ فاطِمَةَ سَيِّدَةِ نِساءِ العالَمينَ، السَّلامُ عَلَيكُم يا أنصارَ أَبي مُحَمَّد الحَسَنِ بنِ عَلِيِّ الوَلِيِّ النّاصِحِ، السَّلامُ عَلَيكُم يا أنصارَ أبي عَبدِ اللهِ، بِأبي أنتُم وَأُمّي طِبتُم وَطابَتِ الأرضُ الَّتي فيها دُفِنتُم وَفُزتُم فَوزاً عَظيماً، فَيا لَيتَني كُنتُ مَعَكُم فَأفُوزَ مَعَكُم.

This is the blessings of hadith al-Kisa & hadith al-thaqalayn that we know the bearers of the minniyat of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).

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23 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

We love a huge percent of the Sahaba, and we don't judge the majority.

Yes, we do judge the majority of sahabah just as we judge any other group of people.

Those who opposed the command of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and His Prophet (saww) by usurping the right of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) are the worst of them, and those who didn't disassociate from the usurpers will also be held to account for their cowardice and betrayal.

The seriousness of rejecting and/or opposing a Command or Revelation from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is something that is paramount to kufr and/or fisq. If a man were to reject known rulings of Islam, such as the number of rak'aat in a particular Salat or the impermissibility of consuming alcohol, they would be called a kafir, and rightly so, because in this instance they rejected what is clear in either the Holy Qur'an or the Sunnah without a doubt.

This is even more clear with regards to those who directly heard from the Prophet (saww), in that what they heard from the Prophet (saww) is a clear hujjah upon them, if they rejected it then they committed kufr, and if they ignored it or opposed it for their dunyawi desires then they committed fisq. This is true with regards to Wilayah or any other ruling the Prophet (saww) came with - and especially Wilayah as it is one of the five pillars of Islam alongside Salat, Zakat, Hajj and Siyaam, in fact it is the most important pillar from among those mentioned.

And this is why we have hadiths that most people apostated (in that they were led astray) after the Prophet (saww) except a handful, ofcourse after that initial fault many returned to the truth especially during the time of Uthman and the Khilafa of Imam Ali (عليه السلام).

It is fair to say that most of them probably had knowledge of the Right of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) but due to their cowardice or their love for the dunya they were silent, so their fate is left to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), but they were not righteous people, unless they repented and returned.

As for those who facilitated the usurpation and actively supported it for their dunyawi desires, opening the gates for innovation and deviance in Islam, and clearly going against the Command of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), then these people are no doubt the people of the Fire and the enemies of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and His faithful servants. 

As for those who rejected the Right of Ali (عليه السلام) as a matter of belief despite their knowledge of its Revelation, then these people would be open kuffar, as they rejected a Pillar of Islam even though they heard from the Prophet (saww) himself, but I haven't personally seen much proof that many of them fall in this category. Many of our scholars believe they simply did what they did for the dunya, but Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) knows best.

Edited by Ibn Tayyar
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On 11/2/2023 at 2:54 PM, Guest Cool said:

Start your counting from Malik bin Nuwerah (رضي الله عنه) to the last companion Habib ibn Mazahir (رضي الله عنه). to Jabir bin Abdullah al-Ansari (رضي الله عنه).

 

On 11/2/2023 at 2:56 PM, Guest Cool said:

And also include those who embraced martyrdom in the life of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), those include Hamza, Ja'far, Zayd etc. 

 

Not to forget 'Amr ibn Wathilah 'Abu Tufayl' (رضي الله عنه), the OG 'Rafidi' sahabi, who has been all but erased from history. He lived till Mukhtar (رضي الله عنه) 's time and participated in his uprising. 

There are other companions like the Ibn Hunayf brothers (ra.a.), who were front-liners at both Jamal and Siffin I believe, Abdullah ibn Afif al-Azdi (رضي الله عنه), who disrupted ibn Ziyad (la)'s victory speech in the central mosque at Kufa after Karbala and challenged him (they murdered him afterwards in an ambush on his house), and Sulayman ibn Surad al- Khaza'i (رضي الله عنه) , a founder-member of the Tawwabun movement. 

All forgotten names, even among us, the Shi'a. 

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On 11/2/2023 at 10:29 PM, Muslim2010 said:

 

Allah has promised those among them who believe and do good, forgiveness and a great reward.

Thus all the companions of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) are not covered in this verse except the truthful ones. 

It praises all the companions. 'Min' in the verse is referring to bayan not tabdee.

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As far as their claim that adalah of sahaba is an irrational creed then shia creed of infallibility  of the imams is more stupid, more dumber than that. They believe that imams were all infallible and perfect guides of humanity and then the imams start lying according to their authentic narrations whether wine is our or not, whether it is permissable to pray wearing fox skin or not, where Adam landed, whether egg that comes out of the dead chicken is permissable or not. As far as adalah sahabah, then no one considered for them infalliblity from sins and mistakes, rather they believed that they will be forgiven from sins due to repentance or quality or quantity of their good deeds.

It is also amusing to see shia to prove the adalah of all companions from the quran, while they couldn't even prove imamah of one of the 12 imams explicitely from quran. Out of 12 they can only prove infallibility of 3 of them only after their mind boggling interpretations which can be debunked in less than a minute. As far as virtues of companions, quran praises all the muhajireen and ansar, all of people of pledge, and all the companions before they committed some sins and after they commited some major sins. But quran mentioned onions, lentils and cucumbers but didn't mention even the imamah of one of your imams whom you claim that their imamh is fundamental to the religion, all the prophets were granted prophethood if they accepted the imamah, all the prophets were sent to preach the wilayah of ahlulbayt, previous nations were destroyed because they doubted their wilayah.

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52 minutes ago, hanbali said:

As far as their claim that adalah of sahaba is an irrational creed then shia creed of infallibility  of the imams is more stupid, more dumber than that

lol, You know what you are comparing? 

You have so many companions and you cannot prove that each & everyone of them was just. 

On the other hand, Imamah itself is mentioned as divine covenant which will not reach to unjust. 

:party:

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18 minutes ago, Inspector said:

lol, You know what you are comparing? 

You have so many companions and you cannot prove that each & everyone of them was just. 

On the other hand, Imamah itself is mentioned as divine covenant which will not reach to unjust. 

:party:

No problem. Each companion adalah can be ascertained from sunnah. Generality of sahaba were praised in quran. Look at yourself, you cannot prove imamah of 1 of the 12 imams explicitely from quran.

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23 hours ago, hanbali said:

No problem. Each companion adalah can be ascertained from sunnah. Generality of sahaba were praised in quran.

So prove their adalah who among them was just in battle of Jamal? 

Who among them was just in the battle of Siffin? 

All of them were just yet they are killing each other with their justice and their acting upon the sunnah lol. 

What a funny statement? Who was just & truthful one, Abu Bakar or Syeda Fatima (عليه السلام)? You should worry about defending the adalah of the very first caliph. 

23 hours ago, hanbali said:

you cannot prove imamah of 1 of the 12 imams explicitely from quran.

When Quran failed to prove you the Imamah of 12 Imams. When your Sahih Books failed to prove you 12 caliphs lol, don't complaint our failure anymore lol.

When your sahih books failed to prove you that the killers of Ammar (رضي الله عنه) were a group of rebels who were calling him towards hell, please don't complaint about our failures anymore. 

Rijs is a thing which has been kept away from the Ahlul Bayt عليهم السلام, if you are away from them, failed to identify them as your Imams, better look at yourself for finding the cause. 

:party:

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1 hour ago, Inspector said:

So prove their adalah who among them was just in battle of Jamal? 

Who among them was just in the battle of Siffin? 

Both. But correct one was ali.

 

1 hour ago, Inspector said:

All of them were just yet they are killing each other with their justice and their acting upon the sunnah lol. 

Doesn't prove anything. Companions were praised in the quran even after they committed sins. As far as being funny, then your sect is more funnier and flimsier that that. All imams are infallible and perfect guides for humanity but use to lie to their own shia on minor fiqh issues.

 

1 hour ago, Inspector said:

Who was just & truthful one, Abu Bakar or Syeda Fatima (عليه السلام)? You should worry about defending the adalah of the very first caliph. 

Both. Yet the correct one in the matter is abu bakr. Fatima thought she was entitled to inheritance, abu bakr refuted her claim by quoting a hadith, fatima didn't believed in him and passed away angry with her. Doesn't prove anything, Ali was angry with fatima when he came back from yemen and saw fatima wearing perfume, when she told him that prophet commanded her to do that, ali didn't believed in her and went to rasulullah showing anger on what fatima did.

 

1 hour ago, Inspector said:

When Quran failed to prove you the Imamah of 12 Imams. When your Sahih Books failed to prove you 12 caliphs lol, don't complaint our failure anymore lol

The hadith doesn't prove anything about your imams. It is talking about caliphs who would rule the state. Only two out of 12 ruled the state.

 

Edited by hanbali
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Virtues of companions from quran

Some of the gains will be˺ for poor emigrants who were driven out of their homes and wealth, seeking Allah’s bounty and pleasure, and standing up for Allah and His Messenger. They are the ones true in faith

As for those who had settled in the city and ˹embraced˺ the faith before ˹the arrival of˺ the emigrants, they love whoever immigrates to them, never having a desire in their hearts for whatever ˹of the gains˺ is given to the emigrants. They give ˹the emigrants˺ preference over themselves even though they may be in need. And whoever is saved from the selfishness of their own souls, it is they who are ˹truly˺ successful.

Surah hashr 8-9

Those who believed, migrated, and struggled in the cause of Allah, and those who gave ˹them˺ shelter and help, they are the true believers. They will have forgiveness and an honourable provision

Surah anfal 74

As for the foremost—the first of the Emigrants1 and the Helpers2—and those who follow them in goodness, Allah is pleased with them and they are pleased with Him. And He has prepared for them Gardens under which rivers flow, to stay there for ever and ever. That is the ultimate triumph

Surah tawbah 100

Indeed, Allah was pleased with the believers when they pledged allegiance to you ˹O Prophet˺ under the tree. He knew what was in their hearts, so He sent down serenity upon them and rewarded them with a victory at hand

Surah fath 18

Muḥammad is the Messenger of Allah. And those with him are firm with the disbelievers1 and compassionate with one another. You see them bowing and prostrating2 ˹in prayer˺, seeking Allah’s bounty and pleasure. The sign ˹of brightness can be seen˺ on their faces from the trace of prostrating ˹in prayer˺. This is their description in the Torah.3 And their parable in the Gospel is that of a seed that sprouts its ˹tiny˺ branches, making it strong. Then it becomes thick, standing firmly on its stem, to the delight of the planters4—in this way Allah makes the believers a source of dismay for the disbelievers.5 To those of them who believe and do good, Allah has promised forgiveness and a great reward.

Surah fath 29

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20 hours ago, hanbali said:

Both. But correct one was ali.

lol, incorrect means adalah? 

That was not the ijtihaad as Sunni's pose. That was a rebellion against a legitimate Ulil Amr.  

And that was a rebellion against the divine command "to stay in your houses". 

So prophecies like barking of dogs at Howb did not let Ummul Mo'mineen to quit her plans. The companions involved, inciting her to gather a whole army and then fight against the one who was, according to your standards, a khalifah e rashid. Yet you have the appetite to claim the adalah of both the parties. 

That is nonsense :party:

20 hours ago, hanbali said:

Doesn't prove anything.

lol, I am not supposed to prove anything here. It is you who are required to prove the adalah of all of the companions as you claim it. 

20 hours ago, hanbali said:

Companions were praised in the quran even after they committed sins

Praised with the words like:

منافقون، لا يعقلون، فاسقون 

These words are for whom? 

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يُنَادُونَكَ مِنْ وَرَاءِ الْحُجُرَاتِ أَكْثَرُهُمْ لَا يَعْقِلُونَ

قَالَتِ الْأَعْرَابُ آمَنَّا ۖ قُلْ لَمْ تُؤْمِنُوا وَلَٰكِنْ قُولُوا أَسْلَمْنَا وَلَمَّا يَدْخُلِ الْإِيمَانُ فِي قُلُوبِكُمْ

وَمِمَّنْ حَوْلَكُمْ مِنَ الْأَعْرَابِ مُنَافِقُونَ وَمِنْ أَهْلِ الْمَدِينَةِ مَرَدُوا عَلَى النِّفَاقِ

What is the definition of companion with you? 

20 hours ago, hanbali said:

Both. Yet the correct one in the matter is abu bakr. Fatima thought she was entitled to inheritance, abu bakr refuted her claim by quoting a hadith, fatima didn't believed in him and passed away angry with her.

This is called mixing truth & falsehood. Your creed attribute "incorrectness" to the one who is among the 5 certified sadiqeen as per the verse of Mubahila. 

That alone is sufficient for refutation.

20 hours ago, hanbali said:

The hadith doesn't prove anything about your imams.

lol, it do proves the non-existence of your false claim "adalah of companions". 

I am not even trying to prove anything here about Imamate lol.

:party: good bye!

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4 hours ago, Inspector said:

lol, I am not supposed to prove anything here. It is you who are required to prove the adalah of all of the companions as you claim it. 

Which I did.

14 hours ago, hanbali said:

Some of the gains will be˺ for poor emigrants who were driven out of their homes and wealth, seeking Allah’s bounty and pleasure, and standing up for Allah and His Messenger. They are the ones true in faith

As for those who had settled in the city and ˹embraced˺ the faith before ˹the arrival of˺ the emigrants, they love whoever immigrates to them, never having a desire in their hearts for whatever ˹of the gains˺ is given to the emigrants. They give ˹the emigrants˺ preference over themselves even though they may be in need. And whoever is saved from the selfishness of their own souls, it is they who are ˹truly˺ successful.

Surah hashr 8-9

Those who believed, migrated, and struggled in the cause of Allah, and those who gave ˹them˺ shelter and help, they are the true believers. They will have forgiveness and an honourable provision

Surah anfal 74

As for the foremost—the first of the Emigrants1 and the Helpers2—and those who follow them in goodness, Allah is pleased with them and they are pleased with Him. And He has prepared for them Gardens under which rivers flow, to stay there for ever and ever. That is the ultimate triumph

Surah tawbah 100

Indeed, Allah was pleased with the believers when they pledged allegiance to you ˹O Prophet˺ under the tree. He knew what was in their hearts, so He sent down serenity upon them and rewarded them with a victory at hand

Surah fath 18

Muḥammad is the Messenger of Allah. And those with him are firm with the disbelievers1 and compassionate with one another. You see them bowing and prostrating2 ˹in prayer˺, seeking Allah’s bounty and pleasure. The sign ˹of brightness can be seen˺ on their faces from the trace of prostrating ˹in prayer˺. This is their description in the Torah.3 And their parable in the Gospel is that of a seed that sprouts its ˹tiny˺ branches, making it strong. Then it becomes thick, standing firmly on its stem, to the delight of the planters4—in this way Allah makes the believers a source of dismay for the disbelievers.5 To those of them who believe and do good, Allah has promised forgiveness and a great reward.

Surah fath 29

 

 

4 hours ago, Inspector said:

Praised with the words like:

منافقون، لا يعقلون، فاسقون 

These words are for whom? 

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يُنَادُونَكَ مِنْ وَرَاءِ الْحُجُرَاتِ أَكْثَرُهُمْ لَا يَعْقِلُونَ

قَالَتِ الْأَعْرَابُ آمَنَّا ۖ قُلْ لَمْ تُؤْمِنُوا وَلَٰكِنْ قُولُوا أَسْلَمْنَا وَلَمَّا يَدْخُلِ الْإِيمَانُ فِي قُلُوبِكُمْ

وَمِمَّنْ حَوْلَكُمْ مِنَ الْأَعْرَابِ مُنَافِقُونَ وَمِنْ أَهْلِ الْمَدِينَةِ مَرَدُوا عَلَى النِّفَاقِ

What is the definition of companion with you? 

Those are about munafiqoon. A nasbi and a kharji can use those verses to prove ali, ammar and those whith him to be hypocrites. So my point that companions were praised before and after they commited major sins still stands. That include the people of jamal and siffin.

As far as nonsense, then your whole sect is filled with nonsense. Imams are guides to humanity but also use to lie to their own shia whether wine is pure or not, and to reconcile the lies, the four main books of shia were written.

4 hours ago, Inspector said:

This is called mixing truth & falsehood. Your creed attribute "incorrectness" to the one who is among the 5 certified sadiqeen as per the verse of Mubahila. 

That alone is sufficient for refutation

Lol. What about mubahila prove that they were sadiqeen and how does that prove that they were infallibles. And you didn't try to refute the whole quotation since it is enough to debunk your nonsense.

14 hours ago, hanbali said:

Both. Yet the correct one in the matter is abu bakr. Fatima thought she was entitled to inheritance, abu bakr refuted her claim by quoting a hadith, fatima didn't believed in him and passed away angry with her. Doesn't prove anything, Ali was angry with fatima when he came back from yemen and saw fatima wearing perfume, when she told him that prophet commanded her to do that, ali didn't believed in her and went to rasulullah showing anger on what fatima did.

وقدم عليٌّ من اليمنِ ببُدنِ النبيِّ صلَّى اللهُ عليه وسلَّمَ . فوجد فاطمةَ رضي اللهُ عنها ممن حلَّ . ولبست ثيابًا صبيغًا . واكتحلَت . فأنكر ذلك عليها . فقالت : إنَّ أبي أمرني بهذا . قال : فكان عليٌّ يقول بالعراقِ : فذهبتُ إلى رسولِ اللهِ صلَّى اللهُ عليه وسلَّمَ مُحَرِّشًا على فاطمةَ . للذي صنعت . مُستفتيًا رسولَ اللهِ صلَّى اللهُ عليه وسلَّمَ فيما ذكرتْ عنه . فأخبرتُه أني أنكرت ُذلك عليها . فقال : صدقتْ صدقت ْ.  […(In a long narration he says)…`Ali came from the Yemen with the sacrificial animals for the Prophet (May peace be upon him) and found Fatimah (Allah be pleased with her) to be one among those who had put-off Ihram and had put on dyed clothes and had applied antimony. He (`Ali) showed disapproval to it, whereupon she said: My father has commanded me to do this. He (the narrator) said that `Ali used to say in `Iraq: I went to the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) showing anger at Fatimah for what she had done, and asked the (verdict) of Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) regarding what she had narrated from him, and told him that I was angry with her, whereupon he said: She has told the truth, she has told the truth.] 

Now this is in Shia books as well and InshaAllah we will write the Shia chains of narration to see if it is authentic based on their standards or not.  This narration is found in the Shia main four books. 

 

al-Tusi: 

محمد بن علي بن محبوب عن يعقوب بن يزيد عن ابن أبي عمير عن معاوية بن عمار عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام ومحمد بن الحسين وعلي بن السندي والعباس كلهم عن صفوان عن معاوية بن عمار عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام 

Narrates it in al-Tahdheeb and al-Amali, his chains are as follows:  1- Muhammad bin `Ali bin Mahboub, from Ya`qoub bin Yazid, from ibn abi `Umayr, from Mu`awiyah bin `Ammar, from abi `Abdillah (as)…

2- Muhammad bin Husayn, and `Ali bin al-Sindi, and al-`Abbas, all of them, from Safwan, from  Mu`awiyah bin `Ammar, from abi `Abdillah (as)…

  al-Kulayni: 

عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ أَبِيه ومُحَمَّدُ بْنُ
يَحْيَى عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ جَمِيعاً عَنِ ابْنِ أَبِي عُمَيْرٍ عَنْ حَمَّادٍ عَنِ الْحَلَبِيِّ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّه عن عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ أَبِيه ومُحَمَّدُ بْنُ إِسْمَاعِيلَ عَنِ الْفَضْلِ بْنِ شَاذَانَ جَمِيعاً عَنِ ابْنِ أَبِي عُمَيْرٍ عَنْ مُعَاوِيَةَ بْنِ عَمَّارٍ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّه 

 

Narrates it in al-Kafi with these chains:  1- `Ali bin Ibrahim, from his father, and Muhammad bin Yahya, from Ahmad bin Muhammad, all of them, from ibn abi `Umayr, from Hamad, from al-Halabi, from abi `Abdillah (as)…

2- `Ali bin Ibrahim, from his father, and Muhammad bin Isma`eel, from al-Fadl bin Shadhan, all of them, from ibn abi `Umayr, from Mu`awiyah bin `Ammar, from abi `Abdillah (as)… 

 

al-Saduq: 

أبي رحمه الله قال حدثنا سعد بن عبد الله عن أحمد بن محمد بن عيسى عن محمد بن ابي عمير عن حماد عن الحلبي عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام 

 

Narrated it in al-Fqih and al-`Ilal with the following chain:  1- My father (rah) said: Sa`d bin `Abdullah told us, from Ahmad bin Muhammad bin `Isa, from Muhammad bin abi `Umayr, from Hamad, from al-Halabi, from abu `Abdillah (عليه السلام)

So who were at the truth among the 'sadiqeen'. Ali who didn't believed in fatima at what she narrated and went to rasulullah showing anger towards fatima to confirm what she said was true or not or is it fatima who was in truth.

4 hours ago, Inspector said:

it do proves the non-existence of your false claim "adalah of companions

It debunks and Anhilate your old claim of "My twelve imams are proven from sunni books ha ha"

 

4 hours ago, Inspector said:

I am not even trying to prove anything here about Imamate lol.

 

You are not even trying because you and your entire sect can't prove it explicitely from the quran. All the prophets were sent to preach the imamah of ahlul bayt but quran mentioned cucumbers and didn't say anything about 12 imams not even 1 of it. What a joke of a sect. Your ancestors knew this very well and that's why they have to come up with batini exoteric tafseer of quran, one of them is shirk means shirk in wilayah of ali.

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20 hours ago, hanbali said:

Now this is in Shia books as well and InshaAllah we will write the Shia chains of narration to see if it is authentic based on their standards or not.  This narration is found in the Shia main four books. 

Salam this is only has been mentioned in sunni books which you have not mentioned your source for your nonsense because it has been a too weak hadith which "رضي اللهُ عنها indicates that it has been only mentioned in Sunni books also you have mentioned chains without giving exact address of Hadith in any Shia books which you can make any imaginary chain based on your whims without mentioning exact address of Hadith  & mixing it from any nonsense  anti shia source which it's only  narrated by Bukhari as  a single hadith while he has not narrated it in his so called Sahih book .

20 hours ago, hanbali said:
On 11/30/2023 at 11:50 PM, hanbali said:

 

وقدم عليٌّ من اليمنِ ببُدنِ النبيِّ صلَّى اللهُ عليه وسلَّمَ . فوجد فاطمةَ رضي اللهُ عنها ممن حلَّ . ولبست ثيابًا صبيغًا . واكتحلَت . فأنكر ذلك عليها . فقالت : إنَّ أبي أمرني بهذا . قال : فكان عليٌّ يقول بالعراقِ : فذهبتُ إلى رسولِ اللهِ صلَّى اللهُ عليه وسلَّمَ مُحَرِّشًا على فاطمةَ . للذي صنعت . مُستفتيًا رسولَ اللهِ صلَّى اللهُ عليه وسلَّمَ فيما ذكرتْ عنه . فأخبرتُه أني أنكرت ُذلك عليها . فقال : صدقتْ صدقت ْ.  […(In a long narration he says)…`Ali came from the Yemen with the sacrificial animals for the Prophet (May peace be upon him) and found Fatimah (Allah be pleased with her) to be one among those who had put-off Ihram and had put on dyed clothes and had applied antimony. He (`Ali) showed disapproval to it, whereupon she said: My father has commanded me to do this. He (the narrator) said that `Ali used to say in `Iraq: I went to the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) showing anger at Fatimah for what she had done, and asked the (verdict) of Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) regarding what she had narrated from him, and told him that I was angry with her, whereupon he said: She has told the truth, she has told the truth.] 

This only has been mentioned in شرح حديث جابر رضي الله عنه from book of   مكتبة الحج which has been written by infamous anti Shia Wahabi Sheikh ibn  Athimain who is infa,ous for fabrication & forging hadiths against Shias so therefore your mentioned hadith has no value which is a fabricated void hadith by an infamous Wahabi Sheikh. 
 
الكاتب: الشيخ محمد بن صالح العثيمين
التصنيف:مكتبة الحج

https://www.islamweb.net/ar/article/136465/شرح-حديث-جابر-رضي-الله-عنه

in similar fashion it has been from Sunan Abi dawud which is one  so called Sihah sunni source which it has not been mentioned in any Shia books although of mentioning  your imaginary chains  .

https://lib.efatwa.ir/42158/2/182/أَفَاضَ

another prove that it's only a Sunni hadith .

Quote

شرح

این حدیث شریف کیفیت حج رسول الله صلی الله علیه وسلم را بیان می کند و اینکه ایشان در سال ده هجری حج نمود و حج و عمره را با یکدیگر انجام داده و با خود قربانی آورده بود. و هیچکس مانند ایشان احرام نبست، مگر تعداد اندکی از صحابه که با خود قربانی آورده بودند، مانند علی بن ابی طالب رضی الله عنه. امام نووی رحمه الله در شرح خود بر صحیح مسلم می گوید: «حدیث جابر حدیث بزرگی است که در بر دارنده فواید متعدد و قواعد بسیار مهمی است. این حدیث را مسلم به تنهایی روایت نموده و بخاری در صحیح خود روایت نکرده است. ابوداود نیز همانند روایت مسلم را در کتابش آورده است. قاضی می گوید: مردم نکات و مباحث فقهی بسیاری از این حدیث برداشت نموده اند. و ابن منذر در این رابطه کتاب بزرگی تصنیف کرده و صد و پنجاه و چند مسئله فقهی را از آن استنباط کرده است و اگر بیشتر بررسی می کرد، نزدیک به همین تعداد مسئله فقهی دیگر را استنباط نموده و بر آن می افزود». 

Description
This noble hadith expresses the quality of the pilgrimage of the Prophet (peace be upon him) and that he had performed the pilgrimage in the year ten AH and performed the Hajj and Umrah together and brought with him a sacrifice. And no one like his majesty wore Ihram, except for a few of the companions who had brought sacrifice with them, such as Ali ibn Abi Talib Razi Allah. Imam Novi Rahamullah says in his commentary on the correct Muslim: "The hadith of Jabir is a great hadith that has many important benefits and very important rules.

This hadith is narrated by Bukhari alone and the Bukhari has not narrated it in its Sahih. Like Abudawud, he has mentioned in his book, like the Muslim narrative.

Qadi says: People have taken many jurisprudential points and jurisprudence from this hadith. And Ibn Mundhar has composed a great book in this regard and deduced from one hundred and fifty -few jurisprudential issues, and if he studied more, he would have inferred and addressed the same number of other jurisprudential issues. "

https://hadeethenc.com/fa/browse/hadith/10622

 

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3 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam this is only has been mentioned in sunni books which you have not mentioned your source for your nonsense because it has been a too weak hadith which "رضي اللهُ عنها indicates that it has been only mentioned in Sunni books also you have mentioned chains without giving exact address of Hadith in any Shia books which you can make any imaginary chain based on your whims without mentioning exact address of Hadith  & mixing it from any nonsense  anti shia source which it's only  narrated by Bukhari as  a single hadith while he has not narrated it in his so called Sahih book

The hadith is in shia books too. Look at the chains of the narrations given

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22 hours ago, hanbali said:

Look at the chains of the narrations given

Salam there are many similar chains about other hadiths which you have not provided at least one address which it proves that you have mentioned it from an anti shia source without doing enough research .

 

 

 

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On 12/1/2023 at 2:43 PM, hanbali said:

وقدم عليٌّ من اليمنِ ببُدنِ النبيِّ صلَّى اللهُ عليه وسلَّمَ

 

22 hours ago, hanbali said:

he hadith is in shia books too. Look at the chains of the narrations given

In authentic narrations about returning of commander of believers Imam Ali (عليه السلام) after reurning from yemen  , it has been mentioned that some companions have had jealous againt him which prophet Muhammad (pbu) has criticized them for their jealously about Imam Ali (عليه السلام) & approved all decisions which have been made by Imam Ali (عليه السلام)

The reason why the Sunni scholarship traditionally argued as such may have been owing to these events of the 9th and 10th years in which the merits and accomplishments of ʿAli ibn Abi Talib (‘a) were so great, and it caused a rift and jealousy of certain other companions. Thus the response is, the event of Ghadir was the Prophet’s (S) response to the collective people, and his need to advocate on behalf of ʿAli ibn Abi Talib (‘a) to adjure the companions’ friendship of him.

In this section we will look at some of the narrations that describe this series of events. We will see how the jealousy of certain companions for Imam ʿAli (‘a) started with the delegation to bring Yemen to Islam, the subsequent collections of taxes and the arrival to Hajj. The purpose of this is not to debate the theological differences or advocate for either the Sunni or Shiʿa causes, but rather to demonstrate the importance of the history of Yemen and its events in Islamic history.

1) Bukhari narrates from his chain reaching to ʿAbdullah ibn Burayda from his father who said, “The Messenger of Allah (S) sent ʿAli to Khalid ibn al-Walid to collect the khums (the one-fifth tax payment). I hated ʿAli. The next morning ʿAli took a bath (implying the ghusl or ceremonial bath on account of having intercourse with a slave-girl included in the khums taxes). I asked Khalid, ‘Won’t you just look at this?!’”

“When we returned to the Prophet (S), I related the situation to him and he asked, ‘Burayda, do you really hate ʿAli?’ ‘Yes I do’ I replied. The Prophet (S) responded, ‘Do not hate him, he deserves more than that from the khums.’”

2) Imam Ahmed ibn Hanbal states that Yahya ibn Saʿid related to him quoting ʿAbd al-Jalil who said, “I was in a circle of people that included Abu Mijlaz and Burayda’s two sons. ʿAbdullah ibn Burayda said, “My father Burayda related to me the following, ‘I used to hate ʿAli more strongly than I ever hated anyone else; and there was one man from the Quraysh whom I liked only because of his hatred for ʿAli. That man was sent out with the cavalry and I went with him, solely because of his hatred for ʿAli. We took some prisoners.’ He then wrote to the Messenger of Allah (S) saying, ‘Send someone to us who will divide the booty (khums), and he dispatched ʿAli to us.’ Among the best of the captives was a black slave-girl. ʿAli took the booty (khums), divided it up and then came out. When he did so his head was wet (meaning that he had taken a ghusl). I asked, ‘O ʿAli, what is this?’ He replied, ‘Did you not see that slave-girl included in the captives? I made the division and she became part of the khums. Then she became part of the household of the Prophet (S), and so one of ʿAli’s family. So I had intercourse with her.’

That man (the unnamed man from Burayda’s party that hated ʿAli) then sent a message to the Messenger of Allah (S) so I said, ‘Dispatch me with it’ and so he did. When in the presence of the Prophet (S) I began to read out the message testifying that it was true. The Prophet (S) then took hold of my hand and the message and asked, ‘Do you hate ʿAli?!’ ‘Yes’ I replied. ‘Do not hate him. Whatever love you have for him, make it stronger. I swear by Him Who holds the soul of Muhammad in His hand, the share of the khums due to the family of ʿAli is more than one slave-girl.’

Following what the Messenger of Allah (S) said to me, there was no one that I loved more than ʿAli ibn Abi Talib.”

3) Muhammad ibn Ishaq states through a chain of narrators to ʿAmr ibn Sha’s al-Aslami who said, “I was with ‘ʿAli ibn Abi Talib in the caravan party that the Messenger of Allah sent out to Yemen. ʿAli was somewhat rude to me and I resented his behaviour.

When I returned to Medina, I complained about him in various meetings and to people that I met. One day when I went to the masjid, I found the Messenger of Allah sitting there. When he saw me look into his eyes, he stared straight back at me until I sat down near him. He then stated, ‘I swear ʿAmr ibn Sha’s, you have done me harm!’

‘But surely we belong to Allah and to Him we do return! I take refuge in Allah and in Islam against ever harming the Messenger of Allah!’ I replied. He responded, ‘Whoever harms ʿAli harms me!’

4) Al-Bayhaqi narrates through a chain to Abu Saʿid al-Khudhri who is narrated to have said, “The Messenger of Allah (S) dispatched ʿAli ibn Abi Talib to Yemen. I was one of those who accompanied him. When he had taken some camels as sadaqah (charitable payments), we asked him if we would ride them and rest our own, which we could see were getting tired. He refused us and said: ‘You only have a share in them, just like all of the Muslims have their share in them.’

When ʿAli had finished his mission and left Yemen to return home, he appointed a certain person in command of us. He himself then hurried off and joined in the pilgrimage. When he had completed his pilgrimage, the Prophet (S) told him, ‘Go back and rejoin your men.’

In the meantime we made the same request to the commander that ʿAli had appointed over us the same request about using the camels that he had denied, and this deputy agreed. When ʿAli learned that the camels taken as sadaqah payment had been used and saw how this had tired them, he summoned his deputy and rebuked him. I told myself, ‘I swear by God when I reach Medina, I will make a report to the Prophet (S) and tell him how rudely and harshly we have been treated!’

After our arrival in Medina, I went to him early one morning intending to fulfil my oath. I met Abu Bakr coming out from having been with the Messenger of Allah (S) and when he saw me he stopped and welcomed me asking me various questions, like I did him. He asked, ‘When did you arrive?’ to which I replied, ‘Yesterday.’ He then went back with me to the Messenger (S) and announced, ‘Saʿad ibn Malik ibn al-Shahid is here’ to which the Prophet (S) told him to invite me in.

So I entered and greeted the Messenger to Allah (S) as he did me. He came over to me and asked me various questions about myself and my family and did so very kindly. I told him, ‘O Messenger of Allah, we suffered greatly from the ill-conduct and harsh treatment of Ali.’

The Prophet hesitated and I began enumerating the problems that we had with him and right in the middle of my comments he slapped me on the thigh as I was right next to him. He said, ‘Saʿad ibn Malik ibn al-Shahid, tone down what you are saying about your brother ʿAli! I swear by God, I know well how tough he is in God’s cause!’ I told myself, ‘Saʿad, your mother is as good as bereaved of you! I am sure to be out of favour with the Prophet now! And I will surely never make a negative reference to him again, confidentially or openly!’”

5) Muhammad ibn Ishaq quotes from his chain of narrators from Yazid ibn Talha ibn Yazid ibn Rukana who said, “The army who were with ʿAli in Yemen became upset that having made their advance, he then put a deputy in command of them and hurried to join the Messenger of Allah (in Hajj).”

The deputy went ahead and dressed every person (from the army) in a ceremonial robe (that belonged to the taxes). When the army was sent to meet him, ʿAli came out to receive them and found them wearing their robes. He asked, ‘What is this?!’ to which they replied, ‘So and so dressed us in them.’ He asked, ‘What made you do this before coming to the Messenger of Allah and letting him decide about the robes as he wished?’ ʿAli then took the robes away.

When they reached the Messenger of Allah (S), they complained to him about the incident.”

There are several other narrations of this kind suggesting that ʿAli ibn Abi Talib (‘a) either acted inappropriately or those around him complained for one reason or another to the Prophet (S) about his decisions and the strictness of them.

As this is not a study of this subject in particular, it is not possible to delve into this topic in detail. However, considering that these narrations exist regarding the conversion and interactions with Yemen, it is necessary to evaluate them briefly.

Here we will mention some points which suggest that these narrations are either false or were fabricated in order to achieve the goal of pursing an agenda against ʿAli ibn Abi Talib (‘a). This is because as mentioned in the body of texts above, there appeared to be a number of people who “hated” Imam ʿAli (‘a) firstly without clear reason, and secondly because they partnered together in Yemen because this hatred of them united them. It is not surprising therefore that when these particular individuals were unable to bring the region of Yemen to Islam after six whole months, and ʿAli ibn Abi Talib (‘a) was able to do so on his first day, this caused them to feel embarrassed, jealous and angry. This gave further cause to their enmity. No matter what Imam ʿAli’s (‘a) actions were thereafter, they would have found faults and fabricated events even in order to reduce the accomplishments of ʿAli (‘a) before the Prophet (S) and the Muslim community. This is why narrations of these kinds regarding ʿAli ibn Abi Talib (‘a) and Yemen have reached us.

We will mention some further points below:

The Holy Qur’an is clear as to the purity of Imam ʿAli ibn Abi Talib (‘a) when it says,

“Indeed Allah only wishes to remove from you all impurities, O people of the Household (of the Prophet), and purify you with a thorough purification.” (Surah al-Ahzab, 33:33).

If Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) advocated for the perfection of Imam ʿAli (‘a), then no amount of narrations can undermine that.

The genre of narrations are from people who themselves claimed to have hatred for ʿAli ibn Abi Talib (‘a); or the books of biographies (ʿilm al-rijal) mention that the narrators were known to have hatred for him. A narration that accuses Imam ʿAli (‘a) stated by a person who testifies to hating him, such as above, are obviously inadmissible and cannot be relied upon owing to the problem of bias.

The narrations themselves are inconsistent. One set of narrations speak about ʿAli’s (‘a) intercourse with a slave-girl; the second that he did not allow the camels that were taxes to be used before the Prophet (S) divided them; the third that he did not permit the robes to be worn before the Prophet (S) decided how to distribute them. Which is it? One, two or all three? If it was the camels then why do reports speak about robes and vice versa? If it was both of them then why did the commanders or the army only complain about one and not the other? One narration accuses ʿAli (‘a) of usurping the taxes (by intercourse), while the rest state that he reprimanded others for doing the same. Such inconsistencies make the narrations completely unreliable.

The narrations are explicitly against the famous narration where the Prophet  prepared Imam ʿAli (‘a) for judgement and making decisions. Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal narrates from ʿAli ibn Abi Talib (‘a) who said, “The Messenger of Allah (S) dispatched me to Yemen. I asked, ‘O Messenger of Allah, you are sending me to people who are older than myself; I am still young and I do not have the knowledge of reaching judgement.’ The Prophet (S) then placed his hand on my chest and said, ‘O Allah make his tongue firm and guide his heart.’ Since then I never had any doubts about a case.’”

If Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) Himself enabled the tongue and heart of ʿAli ibn Abi Talib (‘a) to make sound decisions, then why were those companions complaining about the decisions of ʿAli? Did they know better or did Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) know better? In all of the other judgements in Yemen, ʿAli ibn Abi Talib (‘a) judged correctly - as testified to by the Prophet (S) - sometimes even in the most difficult of cases. How is it therefore, that ʿAli (‘a) judged correctly with those, but not with a simple case of robes belonging to the taxes being usurped by the Muslims?

The decisions of Imam ʿAli (‘a) were certainly correct. The taxes collected were not to be used by some of the Muslims before the Prophet (S) has decided on their distribution. ʿAli’s (‘a) strictness was indeed sound and most correct in that he was commander of the deputation and was ultimately responsible for the taxes reaching soundly. His anger at some of the Muslims usurping them was also correct. Therefore to complain that the commander stopped you from usurping Allah’s (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) taxes suggests the issue of unwarranted hatred for Imam ʿAli (‘a) - irrespective of the decision.

Each time the Prophet (S) was told about a complaint or ʿAli’s (‘a) strictness, the Prophet (S) argued for ʿAli ibn Abi Talib (‘a) or rebuked those with hatred in their hearts for him. Never once did the Prophet (S) find Imam ʿAli (‘a) to have done wrong or reprimanded him.

As mentioned earlier, these narrations are of great significance pertaining to the interpretation of the Event of Ghadir Khumm. Ibn Kathir mentions, “Even though ʿAli could be excused for his actions, talk arose among the pilgrims about him. The Messenger of Allah (S) having completed the pilgrimage and its associated ceremonies returned to Medina. Passing the stream at Khumm, he arose among the people and made an address. He acquitted ʿAli of wrongdoing, emphasised his importance and his virtues in order to remove the negative impression that many others held of him.”20

It is our opinion that some of the companions delegated to Yemen were envious of the accomplishments of Imam ʿAli ibn Abi Talib (‘a). Owing to their hatred they sought to nullify this great act of converting the entire region of Yemen - by creating rumours about his personal conduct and management skills. If these lies could be circulated during the Hajj, then they would return with the people to their respective cities after the Hajj and establish an impression about Imam ʿAli (‘a) in the minds of the people. It is most probable that the narrations regarding the slave-girl are also fabricated; and if ʿAli (‘a) had been strict with his army about their usurping the taxes, this would not be inconsistent with the Qur’an; for even when the Tribes of Israel returned to their worship of the calf in the absence of Prophet Musa (‘a), he became very angry at them.

https://www.al-islam.org/baldatun-tayyibatun-land-most-goodly-jaffer-ali-ladak/chapter-2-conversion-yemen-islam

 

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On 11/30/2023 at 7:35 PM, hanbali said:

Each companion adalah can be ascertained from sunnah

Sunnah that were wrote hundreds years after the companions does not give any credibility for their adalah. The history clearly show how they were fighting each other and among them were those who innovated. 

Your adalah is an innovation of your scholars who interpreted the narrations and history such that it fits the narrative of adalah. 

It even contradict the reasoning of narration where Angels said some of companions of Prophet will enter Hell because of their innovations. 

Narrated ‘Abdullah: The Prophet said, “I am your predecessor at the Lake-Fount (Kauthar) and some men amongst you will be brought to me, and when I will try to hand them some water, they will be pulled away from me by force whereupon I will say, ‘O Lord, my companions!’ Then the Almighty will say, ‘You do not know what they did after you left, they introduced new things into the religion after you.’”

Either you twist and interpret this such that magically it does not contradict adalah of sahaba but it will be unreasonable, or use aql and be honest that this narration proves not all companions were adl. 

It is logically reasonable  concluded from quran and narrations that some of the sahaba were adl, but not all of them. 

Edited by Abu Nur
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On 12/1/2023 at 2:43 PM, hanbali said:

Narrates it in al-Tahdheeb and al-Amali

 

On 12/1/2023 at 2:43 PM, hanbali said:

Narrates it in al-Tahdheeb and al-Amali, his chains are as follows:  1- Muhammad bin `Ali bin Mahboub, from Ya`qoub bin Yazid, from ibn abi `Umayr, from Mu`awiyah bin `Ammar, from abi `Abdillah (as)…

2- Muhammad bin Husayn, and `Ali bin al-Sindi, and al-`Abbas, all of them, from Safwan, from  Mu`awiyah bin `Ammar, from abi `Abdillah (as)…

 

 

Salam main narrator which has been promoted by Wahabi sites is   Mu`awiyah bin `Ammar, معاوية بن عمار  who

Companion of Two Imams

Mu'awiya b. Ammar was a transmitter of hadiths who was trusted by Imam al-Sadiq (a) and Imam al-Kazim (a).[4] He was known as a carrier of the knowledge of the two Imams (a).[5] His reliability in transmission of hadiths has been confirmed by some Sunni scholars of rijal (biographical evaluation) as well.[6]

Quote

Works

Mu'awiya b. Ammar transmitted 964 hadiths.[7] He reportedly wrote many works, including books about hajjzakatprayersupplicationdivorce, and the pilgrimage of Amir al-Mu'minin (a).[8]

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Mu'awiya_b._Ammar

On 12/2/2023 at 3:13 PM, hanbali said:

The hadith is in shia books too. Look at the chains of the narrations given

 

Chains of Narrations of Hadiths in Tahdhib al-Ahkam

In his second method for writing the book, al-Shaykh al-Tusi begins the chains of narrations with the names of the authors of his sources, and then he added an appendix to the book, under mashikha, to connect his own chain to the authors of those books, and for more details he refers the readers to his al-Fihrist. At first pass, it seems that he cites hadiths from the narrators mentioned at the beginning of his chain, but there is ample evidence showing that he did not cite them immediately, but since the people in between were well-known, he did not mention them.

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anyway mentioning hadith by him doesn't mean that it's true which methodology of Sheikh Tusi has been based on recording all  hadith even contradictory  & unreliable hadiths in order to reach to a "combined consensus (al-ijma' al-murakkab), the views of senior scholars and some reasoning" 

 

 

 

On 12/1/2023 at 2:43 PM, hanbali said:

You are not even trying because you and your entire sect can't prove it explicitely from the quran. All the prophets were sent to preach the imamah of ahlul bayt but quran mentioned cucumbers and didn't say anything about 12 imams not even 1 of it. What a joke of a sect. Your ancestors knew this very well and that's why they have to come up with batini exoteric tafseer of quran, one of them is shirk means shirk in wilayah of ali.

Reasons for the Weakness of Hadiths in Tahdhib al-ahkam

  • The contradiction of a hadith narrated by one or few people with one narrated by a greater number of people.
  • The contradiction of a hadith with an essential principle of Islam and Imams (a).
  • The tension in a hadith, that is, where the narrator has narrated the hadith in two or more different ways.
  • The contradiction between what a person narrates with what others narrate.

Weak Hadiths in Tahdhib al-Ahkam

  • Mudmar (in which a hadith involves a pronoun which is not obvious whether it refers to an Infallible or not)
  • Mawquf (a hadith that stops at a companion of Imam (a) where it is not obvious whether it is his own view or is intended to be that of Imam (a)'s)
  • Mursal (a hadith part of whose chain of narrators is missing)
  • A hadith whose narrator is not exactly known
  • Shadh hadith (a hadith saying something odd or uncommon)
  • A hadith with unreliable narrators or one whose narrator is a ghali (a person who exaggerates the virtues of Imams (a)), or Sunni or Zaydi.

Purpose for Writing

In the preface to Tahdhib al-ahkamal-Shaykh al-Tusi writes that one of his friends talked to him about apparently contradictory hadiths in Shiite sources, pointing that this has led to strong criticisms by opponents of Shiism and disbelieving Shiism by some ignorant Shiites. Thus he asked al-Shaykh al-Tusi to write a well-argued exposition for al-Shaykh al-Mufid's al-Muqni'a, which contains the grounds of each problem in widely accepted hadiths as well as contradictory hadiths, showing how to resolve the contradiction or interpret them away or showing in what ways they should not be relied upon.[1] In response to this request, Tahdhib al-ahkam was compiled and authored. Thus the book has an apological motivation.[2]

The Methodology

The book is basically organized in the same way as al-Muqni'a, elaborating all its problems by an appeal to reliable sources (the Quranal-khabar al-mutawatirhadiths with assuring evidence and consensus), referring to widely accepted hadiths among Imamiyya, where contradicting hadiths are interpreted away or dismissed as unreliable.[7] In this method, in terms of which most of the part on taharat (or cleanliness) is written, the author occasionally appeals to sources such as what later came to be called combined consensus (al-ijma' al-murakkab), the views of senior scholars and some reasoning.[8] It has also cited some hadiths from Sunni sources without mentioning their chains of narrators.[9] In this part of the book, there are various Quranic and literary issues (related to Arabic grammar and lexicology) as well as views in usul al-fiqh.[10]

However, the book would have been too lengthy and digressed from its main purpose (writing a work in hadith) had the rest of it been written with the same method. Therefore, the author changed his method in the rest of the book, resting content with citing Shiite hadiths and reconciling their conflicts. He then decided to cite all or almost all hadiths regarding the laws of sharia regardless of issues raised in al-Muqni'a. This is why he added the sections on ziyara (pilgrimage) in the first three volumes of the book.[11] Therefore, the book was written with two different methods that differ in their elaboration as well as in the way they cite hadiths.[12]

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Tahdhib_al-ahkam_(book)
 

 

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On 12/1/2023 at 2:43 PM, hanbali said:
On 11/30/2023 at 11:50 PM, hanbali said:

 

وقدم عليٌّ من اليمنِ ببُدنِ النبيِّ صلَّى اللهُ عليه وسلَّمَ . فوجد فاطمةَ رضي اللهُ عنها ممن حلَّ . ولبست ثيابًا صبيغًا . واكتحلَت . فأنكر ذلك عليها . فقالت : إنَّ أبي أمرني بهذا . قال : فكان عليٌّ يقول بالعراقِ : فذهبتُ إلى رسولِ اللهِ صلَّى اللهُ عليه وسلَّمَ مُحَرِّشًا على فاطمةَ . للذي صنعت . مُستفتيًا رسولَ اللهِ صلَّى اللهُ عليه وسلَّمَ فيما ذكرتْ عنه . فأخبرتُه أني أنكرت ُذلك عليها . فقال : صدقتْ صدقت ْ.  […(In a long narration he says)…`Ali came from the Yemen with the sacrificial animals for the Prophet (May peace be upon him) and found Fatimah (Allah be pleased with her) to be one among those who had put-off Ihram and had put on dyed clothes and had applied antimony. He (`Ali) showed disapproval to it, whereupon she said: My father has commanded me to do this. He (the narrator) said that `Ali used to say in `Iraq: I went to the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) showing anger at Fatimah for what she had done, and asked the (verdict) of Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) regarding what she had narrated from him, and told him that I was angry with her, whereupon he said: She has told the truth, she has told the truth.] 

showing anger is mistranslation by wahabis which they have tried to show Imam Ali(عليه السلام) angry from lady Fatima (sa) but in true translation according to Sunni text 

Ali, may God be pleased with him, brought the camels of the Messenger of God, may God bless him and grant him peace, from Yemen, and he noticed that Fatimah was among those who came out of Ihram, wore dyed clothes, and had blackened her eyes. So he  did not like this act of Fatima and denied it. Fatima, may God be pleased with her, said: My father ordered me to do this. The narrator says: After that, Ali gave a speech in Iraq and said: "Then I went to the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and condemned Fatimah for what she had done. At the same time, I asked the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, what Fatimah had narrated from him, and I told him that I criticized Fatimah for what she did. The Messenger of Alah, may God bless him and grant him peace, said: " «صَدَقَتْ صَدَقَتْ، مَاذَا قُلْتَ حِينَ فَرَضْتَ الْحَجَّ؟»:": "Fatima spoke the truthshe has told the truth; He said the truth. [Then prophet said] What did you say during the intention of Hajj? Ali says: I said: Lord, I put on Ihram with the same intention that your Prophet put on Ihram. The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said: «فَإِنَّ مَعِيَ الْهَدْيَ فَلَا تَحِلُّ»:"I have brought a sacrifice with me." So don't come out of Ihram."

https://hadeethenc.com/fa/browse/hadith/10622

 

Shia version from Tahdhib_al-ahkam_(book) 

وَ قَدِمَ عَلِيٌّ عَلَيْهِ اَلسَّلاَمُ

مِنَ اَلْيَمَنِ عَلَى رَسُولِ اَللَّهِ صَلَّى اَللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَ آلِهِ وَ هُوَ بِمَكَّةَ فَدَخَلَ عَلَى فَاطِمَةَ عَلَيْهَا اَلسَّلاَمُ وَ هِيَ قَدْ أَحَلَّتْ فَوَجَدَ رِيحاً طَيِّبَةً وَ وَجَدَ عَلَيْهَا ثِيَاباً مَصْبُوغَةً فَقَالَ «مَا هَذَا يَا فَاطِمَةُ » فَقَالَتْ «أَمَرَنَا بِهَذَا رَسُولُ اَللَّهِ صَلَّى اَللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَ آلِهِ » فَخَرَجَ عَلِيٌّ عَلَيْهِ اَلسَّلاَمُ إِلَى رَسُولِ اَللَّهِ صَلَّى اَللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَ آلِهِ مُسْتَفْتِياً مُحَرِّشاً عَلَى فَاطِمَةَ عَلَيْهَا اَلسَّلاَمُ فَقَالَ «يَا رَسُولَ اَللَّهِ إِنِّي رَأَيْتُ فَاطِمَةَ قَدْ أَحَلَّتْ وَ عَلَيْهَا ثِيَابٌ مَصْبُوغَةٌ » فَقَالَ رَسُولُ اَللَّهِ صَلَّى اَللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَ آلِهِ «أَنَا أَمَرْتُ اَلنَّاسَ بِذَلِكَ وَ أَنْتَ يَا عَلِيُّ بِمَ أَهْلَلْتَ » قَالَ «قُلْتُ يَا رَسُولَ اَللَّهِ إِهْلاَلاً كَإِهْلاَلِ اَلنَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اَللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَ آلِهِ » فَقَالَ رَسُولُ اَللَّهِ صَلَّى اَللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَ آلِهِ «كُنْ عَلَى إِحْرَامِكَ مِثْلِي وَ أَنْتَ شَرِيكِي فِي هَدْيِي

Ali, (عليه السلام), came toward  Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and his propgeny, from Yemen, and he entered to  Fatimah (sa)   who came out of Ihram, so found  good fragrance and found worn dyed clothes on her ,  So he  said  <<"what is that  Ya (Oh!) Fatima">>  Fatima, may Allah be pleased with her, said: the Messenger of Allah ordered us  to do this. so then Imam Ali (عليه السلام) went to presence of  the Messenger of Allah (pbu) asking [friendly] reproof about Faima (sa)  , and   said  <<"Ya (Oh!)  Messenger of Allah (pbu)  I have seen that  Fatimah has came out of Ihram and she has  worn dyed clothe. the Messenger of Allah (pbu)   said << I have ordered to people to do it and you Ali  how you have put on your Ihram>>  Ali [Ali(as)] said: <<"Ya (Oh!)  Messenger of Allah (pbu)  I have put on  Ihram in similar fashion of the Messenger of Allah (pbu)" >>so The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and his progeny , said:«كُنْ عَلَى إِحْرَامِكَ مِثْلِي وَ أَنْتَ شَرِيكِي فِي هَدْيِي» <<"remain in Ihram likewise me and you ar my partner in my sacrifice">>

https://www.ghbook.ir/index.php?name=تهذيب الاحكام جلد 5&option=com_dbook&task=readonline&book_id=1000378005&page=456&chkhashk=E9CD7547B5&Itemid=218&lang=fa&tmpl=component

 

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On 12/4/2023 at 4:29 PM, Ashvazdanghe said:

so then Imam Ali (عليه السلام) went to presence of  the Messenger of Allah (pbu) asking [friendly] reproof about Faima (sa

Lol. Where did you get the translation. The word here is محرشا  which means annoyance. I don't know where did you get the 'friendly reproof'. And why did he even went to the prophet. Why didn't he says ofcourse oh daughter of messenger of allah, you are saying the truth. Why did he went to rasulullah to confirm what fatima said

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12 hours ago, sunnism said:

Why didn't he says ofcourse oh daughter of messenger of allah, you are saying the truth. Why did he went to rasulullah to confirm what fatima said

He has believed that she has told truth which just for visiting prophet Muhammad (pbu) & becoming sure about giving ruling by prophet Muhammad (pbu)  has went to  rasulullah because he has been sure that prophet Muahhmd (pbu) will confirm action of lady Fatima (sa) anyway his visit caused that nobody else becomes hlier than pop  so then make a doubt about it likewise you. 

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7 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

He has believed that she has told truth which just for visiting prophet Muhammad (pbu) & becoming sure about giving ruling by prophet Muhammad (pbu)  has went to  rasulullah because he has been sure that prophet Muahhmd (pbu) will confirm action of lady Fatima (sa) anyway his visit caused that nobody else becomes hlier than pop  so then make a doubt about it likewise you. 

It's obvious he wasn't certain about what Sayeda Fatima sa said if that hadith is reliable. 

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5 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

He has believed that she has told truth which just for visiting prophet Muhammad (pbu) & becoming sure about giving ruling by prophet Muhammad (pbu)  has went to  rasulullah because he has been sure that prophet Muahhmd (pbu) will confirm action of lady Fatima (sa) anyway his visit caused that nobody else becomes hlier than pop  so then make a doubt about it likewise you. 

Lol. He went there annoyed at fatima. And why did he need to become sure of what fatima said. Doesn't he know that she is purified, she can't forget? 

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